this is bbc world news. the headlines... pope francis has urged iraq's different religious communities to join together in a journey towards peace. at the start of the first ever papal visit to the country, he called for an end to violence and extremism. myanmar�*s military rulers are facing further international condemnation at a un security council meeting in new york, as protesters continue to defy the army's attempts to crush opposition. the head of the world health organization has warned there could be a third, or even a fourth, wave of coronavirus infection. tedros ghebreyesus said it was a mistake to think falling death rates meant the pandemic was over. in the latest clip from her forthcoming interview with oprah winfrey, the duchess of sussex, meghan, says she feels "liberated" now that she and prince harry can

make their own choices without the royal family. at ten o'clock, sophie raworth will be here with a full round up of the day's news. first, it's the media show with amol rajan. hello. there is an almighty ruckus going on in holyrood. it's salmond versus sturgeon for the future of scottish nationalism, perhaps scotland and maybe even the united kingdom itself. but this is a story that london—based journalists seem to be finding hard to follow. columnists are proclaiming their confusion, news networks are mislabeling prominent scottish politicians. is british media just too westminster—obsessed to cover truly national politics properly? and also this week, bbc three

is returning as a tv channel — yes, a tv channel — six years after it went online only. is this a clever ploy by the bbc and bbc television to win back precious younger viewers or a desperate attempt to compete with those streaming giants we may have mentioned one or two times on this show? let me introduce you to our guests. stuart murphy was the controller of bbc three when it launched in 2003. he's now the chief executive of the english national opera. laura o'reilly is media editor at insider, formerly known as business insider, of course. teddy nygh is the co—founder of fully focused. that's a production company which is behind the new bbc three comedy pru. more from them in a moment. and joining us later in the show will be frank o'donnell. he is the editor in chief of dc thompson's newspapers in aberdeenshire. that's including and the press injournal and evening express. before that, he was editor of the scotsman, no less. and callum baird is editor of the national, the scottish paper launched in 2014.

welcome to you all. callum, let's start with you. you must have one screen on this zoom call. by the way, unmute yourselves when you're speaking over the next 28 minutes or so. callum, you must have one screen on this zoom call and another fixed on a live from holyrood. on a livestream from holyrood. yeah, i've been watching all day. what did you make of it? it's gone on and on and on and on, it keeps going down a few odd rabbit holes and going over the same brand over and over again. holes and going over the same ground over and over again. it's certainly been fascinating, i think, watching alex salmond's evidence last week. i think you can tell why these two people have been such significant figures in scottish and uk politics over the last ten years, because they are both extremely accomplished at this, and no question has probably got the better of either of them so far. well, a huge challenge forjournalists like yourself. we'll come onto that in a bit, callum. good to have you with us. frank o'donnell, every local paper has their share of business personalities.

you have a prominent golf course and hotelier on your patch. i'm going to ask you, how has... donald trump, that's it. has donald trump provided you with any good coffee these last few years? a, any good coffee these last few ears? �* ., ., years? a lot of good coffee. absolutely. _ years? a lot of good coffee. absolutely. -- _ years? a lot of good coffee. absolutely. -- copy. - years? a lot of good coffee. absolutely. -- copy. golf. years? a lot of good coffee. - absolutely. -- copy. golf courses in absolutely. —— copy. golf courses in aberdeen. _ absolutely. —— copy. golf courses in aberdeen, that continues to be the case _ aberdeen, that continues to be the case i_ aberdeen, that continues to be the case i think— aberdeen, that continues to be the case. i think possibly he's got himself— case. i think possibly he's got himself into a bother. whether it's for these _ himself into a bother. whether it's for these golf courses or get them. does _ for these golf courses or get them. does he _ for these golf courses or get them. does he care about that? everyone says he cares about fox news, does donald trump care what the press and journal has to say about his golf course? , ., ., , ., , ., course? yes and no. he phoned up a lot of times- — course? yes and no. he phoned up a lot of times. he _ course? yes and no. he phoned up a lot of times. he would _ course? yes and no. he phoned up a lot of times. he would phone - course? yes and no. he phoned up a lot of times. he would phone up - lot of times. he would phone up journalists — lot of times. he would phone up journalists directly at that point to make — journalists directly at that point

to make sure they were properly briefed _ to make sure they were properly briefed and they knew what was going on, briefed and they knew what was going on. so _ briefed and they knew what was going on. so yeah. — briefed and they knew what was going on, so yeah, i think there's an element— on, so yeah, i think there's an element of— on, so yeah, i think there's an element of he does care, even what happening _ element of he does care, even what happening is scotland. is element of he does care, even what happening is scotland.— happening is scotland. is nicer politicians- — happening is scotland. is nicer politicians. let's _ happening is scotland. is nicer politicians. let's start - happening is scotland. is nicer politicians. let's start with - happening is scotland. is nicer politicians. let's start with the news that bbc three is returning as a broadcast tv channel subject to approval by the regulator. laura o'reilly, what's the rationale the bbc presented about bringing this back now? , , ., , bbc presented about bringing this back now? , , . , , . back now? essentially, ever since bbc three went _ back now? essentially, ever since bbc three went online _ back now? essentially, ever since bbc three went online only, - back now? essentially, ever since bbc three went online only, it's l bbc three went online only, it's really— bbc three went online only, it's really pumped _ bbc three went online only, it's really pumped out _ bbc three went online only, it's really pumped out hit— bbc three went online only, it's really pumped out hit after- bbc three went online only, it's really pumped out hit after hit. i really pumped out hit after hit. we've — really pumped out hit after hit. we've had _ really pumped out hit after hit. we've had fleabag, _ really pumped out hit after hit. we've had fleabag, this- really pumped out hit after hit. i we've had fleabag, this country really pumped out hit after hit. . we've had fleabag, this country, nornrai— we've had fleabag, this country, normal peopie _ we've had fleabag, this country, normal people will— we've had fleabag, this country, normal people will was - we've had fleabag, this country, l normal people will was requested. we've had fleabag, this country, - normal people will was requested. it does seem _ normal people will was requested. it does seem like — normal people will was requested. it does seem like the _ normal people will was requested. it does seem like the smartest - normal people will was requested. it does seem like the smartest strategy and media, _ does seem like the smartest strategy and media, so— does seem like the smartest strategy and media, so it— does seem like the smartest strategy and media, so it kind _ does seem like the smartest strategy and media, so it kind of— does seem like the smartest strategy and media, so it kind of been- and media, so it kind of been refreshing _ and media, so it kind of been refreshing to— and media, so it kind of been refreshing to see _ and media, so it kind of been refreshing to see a _ and media, so it kind of been refreshing to see a change i and media, so it kind of been. refreshing to see a change from and media, so it kind of been- refreshing to see a change from what was essentially— refreshing to see a change from what was essentially the _ refreshing to see a change from what was essentially the repeat _ refreshing to see a change from what was essentially the repeat channel. l was essentially the repeat channel. i'm was essentially the repeat channel. in being _ was essentially the repeat channel. in being nrean _ was essentially the repeat channel. i'm being mean. but— was essentially the repeat channel. i'm being mean. but i— was essentially the repeat channel. i'm being mean. but i think- was essentially the repeat channel. i'm being mean. but i think the - i'm being mean. but i think the sense _ i'm being mean. but i think the sense of—

i'm being mean. but i think the sense of the _ i'm being mean. but i think the sense of the bbc— i'm being mean. but i think the sense of the bbc is— i'm being mean. but i think the sense of the bbc is it _ i'm being mean. but i think the sense of the bbc is it deservesl i'm being mean. but i think thel sense of the bbc is it deserves a i'm being mean. but i think the i sense of the bbc is it deserves a a channei— sense of the bbc is it deserves a a channel based _ sense of the bbc is it deserves a a channel based on _ sense of the bbc is it deserves a a channel based on this _ sense of the bbc is it deserves a a channel based on this success, - sense of the bbc is it deserves a ai channel based on this success, and it does— channel based on this success, and it does seem — channel based on this success, and it does seem like _ channel based on this success, and it does seem like the _ channel based on this success, and it does seem like the previous- it does seem like the previous decision— it does seem like the previous decision to _ it does seem like the previous decision to make _ it does seem like the previous decision to make it _ it does seem like the previous decision to make it online - it does seem like the previous| decision to make it online only it does seem like the previous- decision to make it online only was a bit of— decision to make it online only was a bit of a _ decision to make it online only was a bit of a blunder. _ decision to make it online only was a bit of a blunder. the _ decision to make it online only was a bit of a blunder. the idea - decision to make it online only was a bit of a blunder. the idea is- decision to make it online only was a bit of a blunder. the idea is i- a bit of a blunder. the idea is i suppose — a bit of a blunder. the idea is i strppose there _ a bit of a blunder. the idea is i suppose there are _ a bit of a blunder. the idea is i suppose there are still- a bit of a blunder. the idea is i suppose there are still young i a bit of a blunder. the idea is i- suppose there are still young people watching _ suppose there are still young people watching tv — suppose there are still young people watching tv as — suppose there are still young people watching tv as it _ suppose there are still young people watching tv as it aired. _ suppose there are still young people watching tv as it aired. not - suppose there are still young people watching tv as it aired. not many. suppose there are still young people watching tv as it aired. not many as before, _ watching tv as it aired. not many as before, but— watching tv as it aired. not many as before, but there's _ watching tv as it aired. not many as before, but there's still _ watching tv as it aired. not many as before, but there's still an _ before, but there's still an audience _ before, but there's still an audience there. _ before, but there's still an audience there. 16- before, but there's still an audience there. 16 to - before, but there's still an - audience there. 16 to 34—year—olds watched _ audience there. 16 to 34—year—olds watched about _ audience there. 16 to 34—year—olds watched about an _ audience there. 16 to 34—year—olds watched about an hour— audience there. 16 to 34—year—olds watched about an hour and - audience there. 16 to 34—year—olds watched about an hour and 47 - audience there. 16 to 34—year—olds . watched about an hour and 47 million nrinutes— watched about an hour and 47 million minutes to _ watched about an hour and 47 million minutes to broadcast _ watched about an hour and 47 million minutes to broadcast tv. _ watched about an hour and 47 million minutes to broadcast tv. just - watched about an hour and 47 million minutes to broadcast tv. just over. minutes to broadcast tv. just over half of— minutes to broadcast tv. just over half of that— minutes to broadcast tv. just over half of that was _ minutes to broadcast tv. just over half of that was watched _ minutes to broadcast tv. just over half of that was watched as - minutes to broadcast tv. just over half of that was watched as live. . half of that was watched as live. there's — half of that was watched as live. there's still— half of that was watched as live. there's still a _ half of that was watched as live. there's still a market. _ half of that was watched as live. there's still a market. just - there's still a market. just briefly, i keep hearing the bbc is meant to be making savings. it’s meant to be making savings. it's interesting. i mean, there will be an hour— interesting. i mean, there will be an hourtaken— interesting. i mean, there will be an hourtaken off— interesting. i mean, there will be an hour taken off of— interesting. i mean, there will be an hour taken off of bbc. - interesting. i mean, there will be an hour taken off of bbc. my- an hour taken off of bbc. my question— an hour taken off of bbc. my question is— an hour taken off of bbc. my question is about _ an hour taken off of bbc. my question is about what - an hour taken off of bbc. my. question is about what happens an hour taken off of bbc. my- question is about what happens to bbc for— question is about what happens to bbc for now. _ question is about what happens to bbc for now, not _ question is about what happens to bbc for now, not least _ question is about what happens to bbc for now, not least sky- question is about what happens to bbc for now, not least sky arts . question is about what happens to bbc for now, not least sky arts ——j bbc for now, not least sky arts —— bbc for now, not least sky arts —— bbc four — bbc for now, not least sky arts —— bbc four it—

bbc for now, not least sky arts —— bbc four. it remains— bbc for now, not least sky arts —— bbc four. it remains to _ bbc for now, not least sky arts —— bbc four. it remains to be - bbc for now, not least sky arts —— bbc four. it remains to be seen . bbc for now, not least sky arts —— . bbc four. it remains to be seen how this is— bbc four. it remains to be seen how this is going — bbc four. it remains to be seen how this is going to— bbc four. it remains to be seen how this is going to be _ bbc four. it remains to be seen how this is going to be thought _ bbc four. it remains to be seen how this is going to be thought about- this is going to be thought about when _ this is going to be thought about when it— this is going to be thought about when it comes _ this is going to be thought about when it comes to _ this is going to be thought about when it comes to the _ this is going to be thought about when it comes to the xl - when it comes to the xl spreadsheets. - when it comes to the xl spreadsheets.— when it comes to the xl spreadsheets. when it comes to the xl sreadsheets. ,, ., ., when it comes to the xl sreadsheets. . . . �* �* spreadsheets. stuart, you want bbc three back in _ spreadsheets. stuart, you want bbc three back in 2003. _ spreadsheets. stuart, you want bbc three back in 2003. what's - spreadsheets. stuart, you want bbc three back in 2003. what's the - three back in 2003. what's the assessment of the return? it’s three back in 2003. what's the assessment of the return? it's good news. i assessment of the return? it's good new i can't — assessment of the return? it's good news. i can't wait. _ assessment of the return? it's good news. i can't wait. there's - assessment of the return? it's good news. i can't wait. there's so - assessment of the return? it's good news. i can't wait. there's so many| news. i can't wait. there's so many options, so for an audience to be pretty lazy and have things and on the plate to sit back on a linear tv channel is amazing. i'm super happy. i think it was the worst decision to take it online. did i think it was the worst decision to take it online.— i think it was the worst decision to take it online._ 0ut| i think it was the worst decision to i take it online._ out of take it online. did you, why? out of courtesy.--- — take it online. did you, why? out of courtesy,... that's _ take it online. did you, why? out of courtesy, . .. that's where _ take it online. did you, why? out of courtesy, . .. that's where the - take it online. did you, why? out ofj courtesy,... that's where the young audience is. it's the biggest strategic might take ever. truth? audience is. it's the biggest strategic might take ever. why was it? if it's strategic might take ever. why was it? if it's on — strategic might take ever. why was it? if it's on a _ strategic might take ever. why was it? if it's on a tv _ strategic might take ever. why was it? if it's on a tv you _ strategic might take ever. why was it? if it's on a tv you kind - strategic might take ever. why was it? if it's on a tv you kind of - it? if it's on a tv you kind of flicked through _ it? if it's on a tv you kind of flicked through and - it? if it's on a tv you kind of flicked through and get - it? if it's on a tv you kind of - flicked through and get something by mistake, so it entices viewers. it allows you to do cross promotion in allows you to do cross promotion in

a way you can't when it's online, and there's so many things about the philosophy which is people stumble across stuff they don't yet know they love. where you put two big insurers either side of an unknown show, a good way to get people into something they didn't know they love. to put it in the kind of wilderness online meant it was only really proactive viewers went and found it. hats off to bbc three, because as laura says, they've had unbelievable hits. is a because as laura says, they've had unbelievable hits. is a networking? -- is it working? _ unbelievable hits. is a networking? -- is it working? if— unbelievable hits. is a networking? -- is it working? if it's _ unbelievable hits. is a networking? -- is it working? if it's working, . —— is it working? if it's working, why change the strategy, especially... young people online? it's working but it would work even better. i think the approach the bbc has taken is we've got hits here. let's supersize the hit. let's not just think it's working on trucking,

let's bring it more onto bbc one as they had and onto terrestrial channel. i look at what the bbc offers and if you're a mid—60 —year—old white guy in southern england, you've got bbc one, bbc two, bbc and lots of bbc news. they're also the most vocal complainants, so i think the tide has change in society and it's no longerjust people in their 50s and 60s who can dominate with the media output should be.— output should be. obviously, the bbc needs young — output should be. obviously, the bbc needs young peeple _ output should be. obviously, the bbc needs young people to _ output should be. obviously, the bbc needs young people to justify - output should be. obviously, the bbc needs young people to justify being i needs young people to justify being universal. just before i bring teddy and, what did you make of laura's assertion? ., and, what did you make of laura's assertion?— and, what did you make of laura's assertion? . ., . . . assertion? yeah, when we launch bbc three, assertion? yeah, when we launch bbc three. there — assertion? yeah, when we launch bbc three. there is _ assertion? yeah, when we launch bbc three, there is an _ assertion? yeah, when we launch bbc three, there is an intention _ assertion? yeah, when we launch bbc three, there is an intention to - assertion? yeah, when we launch bbc three, there is an intention to name l three, there is an intention to name the young channel three and the other channel 4. if you call the

older one three and the younger 14 is easy to ask the young one. i think the bbc needs to cater for absolutely everyone, and audio younger audiences at the moment have big shows at the moment. radio one... otherthan big shows at the moment. radio one... other than that, there's not a lot for people under 25 on bbc apart from bbc three.— a lot for people under 25 on bbc apart from bbc three. let's look at this from the _ apart from bbc three. let's look at this from the point _ apart from bbc three. let's look at this from the point of— apart from bbc three. let's look at this from the point of view - apart from bbc three. let's look at this from the point of view of - apart from bbc three. let's look at this from the point of view of the l this from the point of view of the producer. teddy, this is presumably fantastic for you. you already make programmes for bbc three, including pru. now your programme will be on a linear channel. let's be realistic. how important really is linear tv to audience? to how important really is linear tv to audience? ., ., . ~ audience? to the audience, i think not as important _ audience? to the audience, i think not as important as _ audience? to the audience, i think not as important as it _ audience? to the audience, i think not as important as it would've . audience? to the audience, i think i

not as important as it would've been before _ not as important as it would've been before everything went online or over streaming. but i think that it still it— over streaming. but i think that it still it stilt— over streaming. but i think that it still it still has a value for production companies. i like the slot on — production companies. i like the slot on bbc one. this production companies. i like the slot on bbc one.— production companies. i like the slot on bbc one. this is late night. isn't auoin slot on bbc one. this is late night. isn't going to _ slot on bbc one. this is late night. isn't going to a _ slot on bbc one. this is late night. isn't going to a financial _ isn't going to a financial difference?— isn't going to a financial difference? . , ., , difference? yeah, there should be because it's _ difference? yeah, there should be because it's linear _ difference? yeah, there should be because it's linear and _ difference? yeah, there should be because it's linear and set - difference? yeah, there should be because it's linear and set of - because it's linear and set of digitai~ — because it's linear and set of digitai~ it— because it's linear and set of digital. it also shows their commitment to use content which i think— commitment to use content which i think is— commitment to use content which i think is great because it's needed, and i_ think is great because it's needed, and i think— think is great because it's needed, and i think that can generate lots more _ and i think that can generate lots more great content that people want to see _ more great content that people want to see the _ more great content that people want to see. the challenge will be bringing _ to see. the challenge will be bringing people over, but they still have iplayer. it bringing people over, but they still have iplayer-— have iplayer. it will be a challenge. _ have iplayer. it will be a challenge, but - have iplayer. it will be a challenge, but if- have iplayer. it will be a challenge, but if the . have iplayer. it will be a l challenge, but if the point have iplayer. it will be a - challenge, but if the point of bbc three, the point of programmes like

pru is to get eyeballs, isn't tiktok or youtube or instagram what the bbc should be focusing on? i'm glad you're laughing, but teddy, why should the bbc be spending money on those platforms for young people? you can still hit all those platforms up. we're in a cross—platform word. you just make sure you _ cross—platform word. you just make sure you bring everyone over to where _ sure you bring everyone over to where you — sure you bring everyone over to where you want them to land. laura, where you want them to land. laura, wh are where you want them to land. laura, why are you — where you want them to land. laura, why are you laughing? _ where you want them to land. laura, why are you laughing? it _ where you want them to land. laura, why are you laughing? it was - where you want them to land. laura, why are you laughing? it was for- where you want them to land. laura, why are you laughing? it was for the | why are you laughing? it was for the same reason — why are you laughing? it was for the same reason teddy _ why are you laughing? it was for the same reason teddy said. _ why are you laughing? it was for the same reason teddy said. if- why are you laughing? it was for the same reason teddy said. if you - same reason teddy said. if you programme _ same reason teddy said. if you programme to _ same reason teddy said. if you programme to younger- same reason teddy said. if you | programme to younger people, same reason teddy said. if you - programme to younger people, tiktok shoutd _ programme to younger people, tiktok should already — programme to younger people, tiktok should already be _ programme to younger people, tiktok should already be in _ programme to younger people, tiktok should already be in your— programme to younger people, tiktok should already be in your marketing i should already be in your marketing plans _ should already be in your marketing lans. .,, , ., , should already be in your marketing lans. , ., , , plans. the most streamers companies like netflix would _ plans. the most streamers companies like netflix would kill— plans. the most streamers companies like netflix would kill to _ plans. the most streamers companies like netflix would kill to have - plans. the most streamers companies like netflix would kill to have a - like netflix would kill to have a linear channel. is that true? yeah, it's valuable _ linear channel. is that true? yeah, it's valuable for _ linear channel. is that true? yeah, it's valuable for production. - linear channel. is that true? yeah, it's valuable for production. it's . linear channel. is that true? yeah, it's valuable for production. it's a l it's valuable for production. it's a level— it's valuable for production. it's a level of—

it's valuable for production. it's a level of respect that you are reaching, _ level of respect that you are reaching, that traditional audience, i reaching, that traditional audience, i guess _ reaching, that traditional audience, i guess. there's a level of respect that comes — i guess. there's a level of respect that comes within their channel. they— that comes within their channel. they were — that comes within their channel. they were there first at the end of the day, _ they were there first at the end of the day, and i think there's still a nostalgia — the day, and i think there's still a nostalgia and a feeling towards him. so, i nostalgia and a feeling towards him. so. ithink— nostalgia and a feeling towards him. so, i think being able to offer both is a good _ so, i think being able to offer both is a good overall option.— so, i think being able to offer both is a good overall option.- i i is a good overall option. stuart. i think people _ is a good overall option. stuart. i think people tend _ is a good overall option. stuart. i think people tend to _ is a good overall option. stuart. i think people tend to miss - is a good overall option. stuart. i - think people tend to miss understand what your audience love and think they only like short tv. also really home—grown tv. actually, it's not just that. they love game of thrones, it's completely involving cinematic standard of tv. fleabag was brilliant. massive production values. it was complicated. i think

those outside that young audience sometimes characterise young audiences as one and three second verses of youtube stuff. they do at some point, but they also love comedies like teddy's and involving dramas and factual theories. stuart, ou've not dramas and factual theories. stuart, you've got extensive _ dramas and factual theories. stuart, you've got extensive experience, . you've got extensive experience, expertise even, in bbc politics, albeit from a different era. how hard it is it for the bbc to relaunch bbc three wall, for example, there's this huge uproar over the over 75 licensing? it’s over the over 75 licensing? it's interesting- — over the over 75 licensing? it's interesting. i— over the over 75 licensing? it�*s interesting. i think in some ways, it's going to be very easy because the bbc�*s there to take things that work for the bbc, and those aren't politically expeditious things to say, so theyjust focus on... in one sense, it'sjust easy. you say, so theyjust focus on... in one sense, it's just easy. you try to forget the noise. it's really hard because it doesn't sit well if you

say older audiences have higher disposable income than younger audiences, olderaudiences disposable income than younger audiences, older audiences consume more linear tv. they should pay, why not? they consume enormous amount of tv, they earn proportionally more. suffer from tv, they earn proportionally more. sufferfrom huge amount tv, they earn proportionally more. suffer from huge amount of unemployment. they suffer from enormous stress in terms of gender, sexuality, physical stress, feeling disengaged from nationhood. i worry about the stress that younger audiences are going through. it's absolutely right the bbc step in and notjust absolutely right the bbc step in and not just give them absolutely right the bbc step in and notjust give them fun stuff and drama, but factual stuff and help them make sense of the complicated world. i them make sense of the complicated world. .., ., , them make sense of the complicated world. .. ., , ., them make sense of the complicated world. . , ., world. i can hear the fury of some of our audience _ world. i can hear the fury of some of our audience are _ world. i can hear the fury of some of our audience are hearing - world. i can hear the fury of some of our audience are hearing you i of our audience are hearing you right now and saying how dare he say such a thing about older audiences! we talked a bit about bbc three, for those you don't know it's about, just tell us what pru is about. it

just tell us what pru is about. it is set in a referral unit which is a place _ is set in a referral unit which is a place where _ is set in a referral unit which is a place where young people go if they been expelled from school, and i think— been expelled from school, and i think that — been expelled from school, and i think that not a lot of people know the name — think that not a lot of people know the name pru or what it means, or the name pru or what it means, or the acronym — the name pru or what it means, or the acronym. sol the name pru or what it means, or the acronym. so i think it's a great opportunity— the acronym. so i think it's a great opportunity to show that even some people _ opportunity to show that even some people who do know about it may have a negative _ people who do know about it may have a negative outlook on what they are. they can _ a negative outlook on what they are. they can be — a negative outlook on what they are. they can be a place from hope —— of hope _ they can be a place from hope —— of hope for— they can be a place from hope —— of hope for many young people, and having _ hope for many young people, and having that smaller classes and having — having that smaller classes and having teachers will give them more time and _ having teachers will give them more time and energy. you can go on and achieve _ time and energy. you can go on and achieve great things. so, essentially, we follow our directors and all _ essentially, we follow our directors and all of _ essentially, we follow our directors and all of the chaos that ensues a. are you _ and all of the chaos that ensues a. are you pleased with the ratings so far? ., are you pleased with the ratings so far? . ., ., ,, ., , are you pleased with the ratings so far? . . ., 4' ., , . far? yeah, i mean, who knows what the numbers — far? yeah, i mean, who knows what the numbers are? _ far? yeah, i mean, who knows what the numbers are? we _ far? yeah, i mean, who knows what the numbers are? we don't - far? yeah, i mean, who knows what the numbers are? we don't have . far? yeah, i mean, who knows what the numbers are? we don't have to | the numbers are? we don't have to wait about— the numbers are? we don't have to wait about 30 days to find out, but, yeah. _ wait about 30 days to find out, but, yeah. the _ wait about 30 days to find out, but, yeah, the reviews have been good. we

had four— yeah, the reviews have been good. we had four stars across the board, and the feedback we're getting from young _ the feedback we're getting from young people and people who have been to _ young people and people who have been to pru and people at schools or who know _ been to pru and people at schools or who know people who have... been to pru and people at schools or who know people who have. . .- who know people who have... you're auoin to who know people who have... you're going to get — who know people who have... you're going to get a _ who know people who have. .. you're going to get a their— who know people who have... you're going to get a their audience. - going to get a their audience. stuart, when bbc three restart, should it report... why are you laughing? i should it report. .. why are you laughing?— laughing? i think it should play thins laughing? i think it should play things that _ laughing? i think it should play things that younger _ laughing? i think it should play things that younger audience l laughing? i think it should play - things that younger audience loves and other 39—year—old —— 49—year—old like me hates. bud and other 39-year-old -- 49-year-old like me hates-— like me hates. and that's the third time you've _ like me hates. and that's the third time you've laughed! _ like me hates. and that's the third time you've laughed! sorry, - like me hates. and that's the third time you've laughed! sorry, i'm . time you've laughed! sorry, i'm missin: time you've laughed! sorry, i'm missing the _ time you've laughed! sorry, i'm missing the point _ time you've laughed! sorry, i'm missing the point of _ time you've laughed! sorry, i'm missing the point of the - time you've laughed! sorry, i'm i missing the point of the question. let me think. should we repeat little britain? the heart of comity often involves defending some people, and that's why people laugh.

personally, as a gay dad, i don't find the anti—homosexualjokes in little britain offensive, but i can see how some people can be really offended. i think it's made with love. ,, ., ., ,, , ., , offended. i think it's made with love. ,, . ., , . love. stuart, thank you very much. let's turn — love. stuart, thank you very much. let's turn to _ love. stuart, thank you very much. let's turn to events _ love. stuart, thank you very much. let's turn to events in _ love. stuart, thank you very much. let's turn to events in holyrood. i let's turn to events in holyrood. invocations from the media rather than politics. callum, the national. it was founded in 2014, why? because there was an — it was founded in 2014, why? because there was an imbalance _ it was founded in 2014, why? because there was an imbalance in _ it was founded in 2014, why? because there was an imbalance in scottish . there was an imbalance in scottish newspapers. i think there were around 30 daily original titles at the time. 37 of them either took a neutral stance against independence. the only one that did, the sunday herald, saw success off the back of

this. the guy that was in that paper pitch the idea of taken that. what pitch the idea of taken that. what do ou pitch the idea of taken that. what do you say _ pitch the idea of taken that. what do you say to _ pitch the idea of taken that. what do you say to those _ pitch the idea of taken that. what do you say to those critics - pitch the idea of taken that. what do you say to those critics of yours, and there are a few, that you're essentially the in—house journal of the snp? i you're essentially the in-house journal of the snp?— journal of the snp? i think the bi est journal of the snp? i think the biggest problem _ journal of the snp? i think the biggest problem with - journal of the snp? i think the biggest problem with that - journal of the snp? i think the biggest problem with that is i journal of the snp? i think the biggest problem with that is is j biggest problem with that is is actually the fact that the cause of independence and the independence movement is to round up —— two bound up. —— too. it might be the case that a few parties are pro—independence, and you have a balance view, but it's actually... unionists believe the same thing. this is a lot to do with the salmond drama at the moment. they smell blood here and think the way of damaging independence and putting halt to another five years is...

you've had a hard time in the way you've had others against independence. fin you've had others against independence.— you've had others against indeendence. . . ,, , independence. on certain issues, we had. not independence. on certain issues, we had- not nearly _ independence. on certain issues, we had. not nearly far— independence. on certain issues, we had. not nearly far enough _ independence. on certain issues, we had. not nearly far enough on - independence. on certain issues, we had. not nearly far enough on things like land. we think they're not bolstering enough independence. the snp? yes. there's _ bolstering enough independence. the snp? yes. there's this _ bolstering enough independence. the snp? yes. there's this union - bolstering enough independence. the snp? yes. there's this union that. snp? yes. there's this union that exists within _ snp? yes. there's this union that exists within downing _ snp? yes. there's this union that exists within downing street. - snp? yes. there's this union that l exists within downing street. that's what i said. ., �* , what i said. ok. you're tempting me towards making _ what i said. ok. you're tempting me towards making this _ what i said. ok. you're tempting me towards making this a _ what i said. ok. you're tempting me towards making this a politics - what i said. ok. you're tempting me towards making this a politics show. | towards making this a politics show. frank o'donnell, i want to talk to you about your publications in a moment, but with your long experience in scottish media, what would you say is being impacted? i would you say is being impacted? i totally understand why there was a -ap totally understand why there was a gap in _ totally understand why there was a gap in the — totally understand why there was a gap in the market with the national... i think that it has

probably. _ national... i think that it has probably, and callum would be closer to this _ probably, and callum would be closer to this than _ probably, and callum would be closer to this than i, but it's activated some _ to this than i, but it's activated some people to stop reading main steering _ some people to stop reading main steering media. given them a place to look— steering media. given them a place to look at— steering media. given them a place to look at and reflect some of the reviews _ to look at and reflect some of the reviews -- — to look at and reflect some of the reviews —— mainstream media. there is an— reviews —— mainstream media. there is an opinion — reviews —— mainstream media. there is an opinion that says the job of a newspaper— is an opinion that says the job of a newspaper is to confront people's biases. _ newspaper is to confront people's biases, and to an extent, i suppose the national does that. i suppose for me. _ the national does that. i suppose for me. i— the national does that. i suppose for me, i suppose that engages people — for me, i suppose that engages people and what's going on around them _ people and what's going on around them it— people and what's going on around them. it has to be a good thing. you look after a — them. it has to be a good thing. gm. look after a number of papers in aberdeenshire, including the aberdeenshire, including the aberdeen citizen. they have political... ?_ political... ? completely independent, _ political... ? completely independent, no. - political... ? completely independent, no. my. political... ? completely - independent, no. my personal political... ? completely _ independent, no. my personalview, and it— independent, no. my personalview, and it does— independent, no. my personalview, and it does time with a history of the paper, — and it does time with a history of the paper, is that i believe we shouldn't— the paper, is that i believe we shouldn't be telling people how to vote _ shouldn't be telling people how to vote i_ shouldn't be telling people how to vote. i want to... shouldn't be telling people how to vote. iwant to... i shouldn't be telling people how to vote. i want to... i feel i succeed if someone — vote. i want to... i feel i succeed if someone turns over the page and

reads— if someone turns over the page and reads in— if someone turns over the page and reads in the — if someone turns over the page and reads in the column and vehemently disagrees, _ reads in the column and vehemently disagrees, because even if they don't _ disagrees, because even if they don't change their view, at least they— don't change their view, at least they understand a little more where that person is coming from. i think the job— that person is coming from. i think the job of— that person is coming from. i think the job of the newspaper is to challenge people and is to make people _ challenge people and is to make people read things that make them feel uncomfortable, because there is too much _ feel uncomfortable, because there is too much tribalism and society. there _ too much tribalism and society. there are — too much tribalism and society. there are too many people who take stances _ there are too many people who take stances and — there are too many people who take stances and don't act or stop being curious— stances and don't act or stop being curious about why people disagree with them. ., �* ., , , with them. you're literally stuck about. . . with them. you're literally stuck about... against _ with them. you're literally stuck about... against twitter. - with them. you're literally stuck about... against twitter. let's l with them. you're literally stuck i about... against twitter. let's not go there. if there are referendums tomorrow, would your papers remain neutral? ~ , , tomorrow, would your papers remain neutral?_ callum, - tomorrow, would your papers remain neutral?_ callum, there's| neutral? absolutely. callum, there's a iece in neutral? absolutely. callum, there's a piece in your— neutral? absolutely. callum, there's a piece in your papers _ neutral? absolutely. callum, there's a piece in your papers today - neutral? absolutely. callum, there's a piece in your papers today saying l a piece in your papers today saying uk media only "started paying attention to this new story at the end of next week when al salmon appeared at the inquiry." it also points out... is your argument that

the uk media is too obsessed with westminster to cover national politics properly? i westminster to cover national politics properly?— politics properly? i think so. i think it's _ politics properly? i think so. i think it's interesting - politics properly? i think so. i think it's interesting that - politics properly? i think so. i l think it's interesting that some politics properly? i think so. i. think it's interesting that some of the most high—profile media voices in london that have been covering this for a long time are using scottish voices who work with the uk. people have been all over this for a long time, but there hasn't been much, i would've said, from the rest of the media. until something like alec salmon's testimony happened and everyone switched on —— alex salmond. happened and everyone switched on -- alex salmond-— alex salmond. frank, with their historical lens, _ alex salmond. frank, with their historical lens, how— alex salmond. frank, with their historical lens, how big - alex salmond. frank, with their historical lens, how big a - alex salmond. frank, with their historical lens, how big a story. alex salmond. frank, with their i historical lens, how big a story do you think the salmond inquiry is? are your readers that interested? do think some people are saying the story has been overhyped by the

media? ., ~' , story has been overhyped by the media? ., ,, , ., media? no, i think it is a huge story when _ media? no, i think it is a huge story when you _ media? no, i think it is a huge story when you think— media? no, i think it is a huge story when you think about. media? no, i think it is a huge| story when you think about the proximity— story when you think about the proximity of the election in may, when _ proximity of the election in may, when you — proximity of the election in may, when you think about the case for indy ref— when you think about the case for indy ref two, when you think about how important nicola sturgeon and alex salmond are to the snp. if sturgeon — alex salmond are to the snp. if sturgeon wasn't there, who would be the next _ sturgeon wasn't there, who would be the next leader? there is... some argue _ the next leader? there is... some argue she's — the next leader? there is... some argue she's so far ahead of the rest _ argue she's so far ahead of the rest the — argue she's so far ahead of the rest. the implications are those individuals— rest. the implications are those individuals for the election consequently to be union, i don't think— consequently to be union, i don't think you — consequently to be union, i don't think you can overstate how important the story is. when you look— important the story is. when you look at _ important the story is. when you look at the — important the story is. when you look at the figures, that is backed up. look at the figures, that is backed u . _ ,, ., , ., look at the figures, that is backed u -. y ., , look at the figures, that is backed u . _ ,, ., , ., , ., up. sorry to interrupt. callum, would you _ up. sorry to interrupt. callum, would you go _ up. sorry to interrupt. callum, would you go along _ up. sorry to interrupt. callum, would you go along with - up. sorry to interrupt. callum, would you go along with that? | up. sorry to interrupt. callum, i would you go along with that? is up. sorry to interrupt. callum, - would you go along with that? is an absolutely massive _ would you go along with that? is an absolutely massive story. _ would you go along with that? is an absolutely massive story. it's huge. i completely every dome i agree with frank. ., ., , ., i completely every dome i agree with frank. ., ., ., ,, frank. how do you approach it when... are _ frank. how do you approach it when... are you _ frank. how do you approach it when... are you not _ frank. how do you approach it when... are you not tempted | frank. how do you approach it i when... are you not tempted to frank. how do you approach it - when. .. are you not tempted to take when... are you not tempted to take sides? you must have great

connections and both sides? it’s connections and both sides? it's reall , connections and both sides? it's really. really — connections and both sides? it�*s really, really difficult because my sense of... people like to categorise it as the salmond camp and the sturgeon camp, but my sense is that the much bigger camp is in the middle, and i've always really respected these two. it's a bit sad. obviously, the two accounts are very vocal, so it'sjust a case obviously, the two accounts are very vocal, so it's just a case of him telling it straight, reporting the news, doing a really good job. not going any further than that. ii'idta�*e going any further than that. have ou going any further than that. have you spoken _ going any further than that. have you spoken to — going any further than that. have you spoken to salmond _ going any further than that. have you spoken to salmond or - going any further than that. have you spoken to salmond or sturgeon in the past two weeks? flat you spoken to salmond or sturgeon in the past two weeks?— the past two weeks? not in the past two weeks- — the past two weeks? not in the past two weeks- the _ the past two weeks? not in the past two weeks. the same _ the past two weeks? not in the past two weeks. the same question - the past two weeks? not in the past two weeks. the same question of. two weeks. the same question of whether british _ two weeks. the same question of whether british journalism - two weeks. the same question of whether british journalism has . two weeks. the same question of whether british journalism has a l whether british journalism has a westminster problem. do you think london newspapers have a frank principal? often have a completely different story, versus the rest of the uk. i see you're grimacing.

you're... is that a smirk or a grimace? i you're. .. is that a smirk or a grimace?— you're. .. is that a smirk or a urimace? ,, _, ,., . , grimace? i think covering politics is a lot more _ grimace? i think covering politics is a lot more complex _ grimace? i think covering politics is a lot more complex than - grimace? i think covering politics is a lot more complex than ever. grimace? i think covering politics . is a lot more complex than ever has been. _ is a lot more complex than ever has been, because it used to be the case that if— been, because it used to be the case that if you _ been, because it used to be the case that if you wanted to know what was going _ that if you wanted to know what was going on. _ that if you wanted to know what was going on. i_ that if you wanted to know what was going on, i think with devolution in the pandemic, has highlighted that. i say the pandemic, has highlighted that. i say to— the pandemic, has highlighted that. i say to cover the uk properly and understand nations is more complex and nuanced. so, it's understandable that there _ and nuanced. so, it's understandable that there is — and nuanced. so, it's understandable that there is a bit of a westminster focus _ that there is a bit of a westminster focus i_ that there is a bit of a westminster focus. i think that some of the focus. ! think that some of the characters— focus. i think that some of the characters in london who do cover stories— characters in london who do cover stories tend — characters in london who do cover stories tend to cover a bit like a foreign — stories tend to cover a bit like a foreign country, and i think there could _ foreign country, and i think there could be — foreign country, and i think there could be more done they are to understand what's going on in scotland. _ understand what's going on in scotland, particularly with what's happening at the moment. laura o'reill , happening at the moment. laura o'reilly. just _ happening at the moment. laura o'reilly, just briefly _ happening at the moment. laura o'reilly, just briefly to _ happening at the moment. laura o'reilly, just briefly to you - happening at the moment. laura o'reilly, just briefly to you and i o'reilly, just briefly to you and finally to you. i see you're nodding. finally to you. i see you're nodding-—

finally to you. i see you're nodding. finally to you. i see you're noddin. , . ., ., ,�* nodding. it's a sub'ect that doesn't come u- nodding. it's a sub'ect that doesn't come up every — nodding. it's a subject that doesn't come up every single _ nodding. it's a subject that doesn't come up every single day. - nodding. it's a subject that doesn't come up every single day. it's - nodding. it's a subject that doesn't come up every single day. it's on i nodding. it's a subject that doesn't come up every single day. it's on a subject— come up every single day. it's on a subject that — come up every single day. it's on a subject that everyone _ come up every single day. it's on a subject that everyone in _ come up every single day. it's on a . subject that everyone in westminster are perhaps _ subject that everyone in westminster are perhaps following _ subject that everyone in westminster are perhaps following either- subject that everyone in westminster are perhaps following either early- are perhaps following either early on twitter— are perhaps following either early on twitter and _ are perhaps following either early on twitter and refreshing - are perhaps following either early on twitter and refreshing their. on twitter and refreshing their twitter— on twitter and refreshing their twitter feed _ on twitter and refreshing their twitter feed all— on twitter and refreshing their twitter feed all the _ on twitter and refreshing their twitter feed all the time. - on twitter and refreshing their twitter feed all the time. i - on twitter and refreshing their i twitter feed all the time. i think unfortunately— twitter feed all the time. i think unfortunately there _ twitter feed all the time. i think unfortunately there probably - twitter feed all the time. i think. unfortunately there probably does need to— unfortunately there probably does need to be — unfortunately there probably does need to be a — unfortunately there probably does need to be a little _ unfortunately there probably does need to be a little bit— unfortunately there probably does need to be a little bit more - need to be a little bit more education _ need to be a little bit more education there. _ need to be a little bit more education there.— need to be a little bit more education there. ., ,, , ., . education there. thank you so much to all of our— education there. thank you so much to all of our guests. _ education there. thank you so much to all of our guests. frank, - education there. thank you so much to all of our guests. frank, callum, | to all of our guests. frank, callum, laura, stuart, teddy thank you for your time. laura, stuart, teddy thank you for yourtime. goodbye. hello there. much like the last few days, high pressure will continue to dominate our weather into the weekend. that'll bring a lot of dry unsettled weather for many of us, but it'll be chilly both by day

and certainly by night, we could see some frost and some fog in places. as we had there tonight, we'll start to see the frost developing particularly where skies are clear, large portions of england and wales or eastern scotland, as well. a bit more cloud though for the north and west of scotland — here, a few spots of rain at times, certainly temperatures holding above freezing. but for many, at freezing or below to greet us for saturday morning. so it'll be a cold start, some mist and fog to watch out for, which will tend to lift into low cloud. there will some sunshine around, but i think into the afternoon, it looks like it'll turn cloudy again for many, some spots of rain affecting the northwest of scotland, the odd shower across eastern england being blown in off the north sea, and a chilly day for all. it's a similar story on sunday but, as we move through the working week, it turns a lot more unsettled with a spell of rain and gales by midweek.

tonight at ten... nhs workers in england consider strike action after the government suggests a 1% pay rise. nurses say it's an insult after a year on the front line of the pandemic. i thought this sort of time would prove, like, how valuable we were to, like, the system and stuff like that but i feel like that hasn't been translated with this at all. the health secretary says he recognised the incredible work of nhs staff, but the pandemic has put a strain on public finances. elsewhere in the public sector there is a pay freeze in place and we've proposed what we think is affordable. also on the programme tonight... a mystery sixth person who arrived in the uk and tested positive with the concerning brazalian covid

strain has been found in south london after a five—day search.