probably some of that rain reaching the lake district and northern england by the early hours. a touch of frost bursting on monday, wales, a touch of frost first thing on monday, wales, south of the uk and this is where the best of the weather will be on monday. sunshine from mid wales southwards. but broadly speaking, across the northern two thirds, cloudy at times and there will be rain. temperatures will recover up to ten, unsettled midweek. hello this is bbc news. the headlines: the british—iranian woman, nazanin zaghari—ratcliffe, imprisoned in iran has had her ankle tag removed, after her sentence came to an end. however, a new court case against her has been

scheduled for next week. it is totally and utterly inhumane because at the centre of this is an innocent woman, her husband and her daughter, and they are just forgetting that, in all these grand power games, there are ordinary people who are paying a most terrible price. the prime minister has defended the government's 1% payrise for the nhs, during a visit to a vaccine centre in north london. don't forget that there has been a public sector pay freeze. we're in pretty tough times. we've tried to give the nhs as much as we possibly can. schools in england are reopening to all pupils tomorrow — borisjohnson describes it as "the first step" in moving closer to normality. on the third day of his historic trip to iraq — pope francis visits a church in the northern town of qaraqosh, which was devastated by islamic state militants. the royal family marks commonwealth dayjust hours before the duke and duchess of sussex's

interview with oprah winfrey. rangers win theirfirst scottish premier league title in a decade — after celtic fail to beat dundee united. now on bbc news, it's time for the media show. hello. there is an almighty ruckus going on in holyrood. it's salmond versus sturgeon for the future of scottish nationalism, perhaps scotland and maybe even the united kingdom itself. but this is a story that london—based journalists seem to be finding hard to follow. columnists are proclaiming their confusion, news networks are mislabeling prominent scottish politicians. is british media just too westminster—obsessed to cover truly national politics properly? and also this week, bbc three is returning as a tv channel —

yes, a tv channel — six years after it went online only. is this a clever ploy by the bbc and bbc television to win back precious younger viewers or a desperate attempt to compete with those streaming giants we may have mentioned one or two times on this show? let me introduce you to our guests. stuart murphy was the controller of bbc three when it launched in 2003. he's now the chief executive of the english national opera. laura o'reilly is media editor at insider, formerly known as business insider, of course. teddy nygh is the co—founder of fully focused. that's a production company which is behind the new bbc three comedy pru. more from them in a moment. and joining us later in the show will be frank o'donnell. he's the editor in chief of dc thompson's newspapers in aberdeenshire. that's including the press injournal and evening express. before that, he was editor of the scotsman, no less. and callum baird is editor of the national, the scottish paper launched in 2014. welcome to you all.

callum, let's start with you. you must have one screen on this zoom call. by the way, unmute yourselves when you're speaking over the next 28 minutes or so. callum, you must have one screen on this zoom call and another fixed on a livestream from holyrood. yeah, i've been watching all day. what did you make of it? it's gone on and on and on and on, it keeps going down a few odd rabbit holes and going over the same ground over and over again. it's certainly been fascinating, i think, watching alex salmond's evidence last week. i think you can tell why these two people have been such significant figures in scottish and uk politics over the last ten years, because they are both extremely accomplished at this, and no question has probably got the better of either of them so far. well, a huge challenge forjournalists like yourself. we'll come onto that in a bit, callum. good to have you with us. frank o'donnell, every local paper has their share of business personalities. you have a prominent golf course

and hotelier on your patch. i'm going to ask you, how has... donald trump, that's it. has donald trump provided you with any good copy these last few years? a lot of good copy. absolutely. golf courses in aberdeen, that continues to be the case. i think possibly he's got himself into a bother. whether it's for these golf courses or get them. does he care about that? everyone says he cares about fox news, does donald trump care what the press and journal has to say about his golf course? yes and no. he phoned up a lot of times. he would phone upjournalists directly at that point to make sure they were properly briefed and they knew what was going on,

so yeah, i think there's an element of he does care, even what happening is scotland. is nice when politicians do that. let's start with the news that bbc three is returning as a broadcast tv channel subject to approval by the regulator. laura o'reilly, what's the rationale the bbc presented about bringing this back now? essentially, ever since bbc three went online only, it's really- pumped out hit after hit. iwe've had fleabag, this country, | normal people will was requested. it does seem like the smartest strategy and media, so it kindl of been refreshing to see a change from what was essentially- the repeat channel. i'm being mean. but i think the sense of the bbc is it deserves a channel-

based on this success, _ and it does seem like the previous decision to make it online only was a bit of a blunder. - the idea is i suppose - there are still young people watching tv as it aired. not many as before, but there's still an audience there. - 16 to 34—year—olds watched i about an hour and 47 million minutes to broadcast tv. just over half of that was watched as live. there's still a market. just briefly, i keep hearing the bbc is meant to be making savings. how is this going to be funded? it's interesting. i mean, there will be - an hour taken off of bbc. my question is about _

what happens to bbc four now, not least sky arts. it remains to be seen how this- is going to be thought about when it comes to the xl spreadsheets. stuart, you want bbc three back in 2003. what's the assessment of the return? it's good news. i can't wait. there's so many options, so for an audience to be pretty lazy and like to have things handed on the plate to sit back on a linear tv channel is amazing. i'm super happy. i think it was the worst decision to take it online. did you, why? out of courtesy,... that's where the young audience is. it's the biggest strategic might take ever. why was it? if it's on a tv you kind of flick through and get something by mistake, so it entices viewers. it allows you to do cross promotion in a way you can't when it's online, and there's so many things

about the philosophy which is people stumble across stuff they don't yet know they love. where you put two big shows either side of an unknown show, a good way to get people into something they didn't know they love. to put it in the kind of wilderness of online meant it was only really proactive viewers went and found it. hats off to bbc three, because as laura says, they've had unbelievable hits. is it working? if it's working, why change the strategy, especially... young people online? it's working but it would work even better. i think the approach the bbc has taken is we've got hits here. let's supersize the hit. let's notjust think it's working and trucking,

let's bring it more onto bbc one as they had and onto terrestrial channel. i look at what the bbc offers and if you're a mid—60 —year—old white guy in southern england, you've got bbc one, bbc two, bbc and lots of bbc news. they're also the most vocal complainants, so i think the tide has changed in society and it's no longerjust people in their 50s and 60s who can dominate what the media output should be. obviously, the bbc needs young people to justify being universal. just before i bring teddy and, what did you make of laura's assertion? yeah, when we launched bbc three, there is an intention to name the young channel three and the other channel 4. if you call the older one three

and the younger one 4 it's easy to axe the young one. i think the bbc needs to cater for absolutely everyone, and audio younger audiences at the moment have big shows at the moment. radio one... other than that, there's not a lot for people under 25 on bbc apart from bbc three. let's look at this from the point of view of the producer. teddy, this is presumably fantastic for you. you already make programmes for bbc three, including pru. that is a comedy series about a pupil referral unit that launched this week. now your programme will be on a linear channel. let's be realistic. how important really is linear tv to audience? to the audience, i think not as important as it would've been before everything went online

or over streaming. but i think that it still has a value for production companies. we feel proud when we create something and it is on the mainstream tv. i like the slot on bbc one. this is late night. is it going to a financial difference? yeah, there should be because it's linear and set of digital. it also shows their commitment to youth content which i think is great because it's needed, and i think that can generate lots more great content that people want to see. the challenge will be bringing people over, but they still have iplayer. it will be a challenge, but if the point of bbc three, the point of programmes like pru is to get eyeballs, isn't tiktok

or youtube or instagram what the bbc should be focusing on? i'm glad you're laughing, but teddy, why should the bbc be spending money on those platforms for young people? you can still hit all those platforms up. we're in a cross—platform word. you just make sure you bring everyone over to where you want them to land. laura, why are you laughing? is it funny watching someone of my age mention the words tiktok? it was for the same reason teddy said. | if you programme to younger people, tiktok should already be _ in your marketing plans. fiona campbell from the bbc says... the most streamers companies like netflix would kill to have a linear channel. is that true? yeah, it's valuable for production. why is that, teddy? it's a level of respect

that you are reaching, that traditional audience, i guess _ there's a level of respect that comes with a channel. they were there first at the end of the day, and i think there's still a nostalgia and a feeling towards him. so, i think being able to offer both is a good overall option. stuart. i think people tend to miss understand what your audience love and think they only like short tv. also really home—grown tv. actually, it's notjust that. they love game of thrones, it's completely involving cinematic standard of tv. flea bag was brilliant. massive production values. really involving a nuanced, but silly and reflective. i think those outside that young

audience sometimes characterise young audiences as wanting three second verses of youtube stuff. they do at some point, but they also love comedies like teddy's and involving dramas and factual theories. stuart, you've got extensive experience, expertise even, in bbc politics, albeit from a different era. how hard it is for the bbc to relaunch bbc three wall, for example, there's this huge uproar over the over 75 licensing? it's interesting. i think in some ways, it's going to be very easy because the bbc�*s there to take things that work for the bbc, and those aren't politically expeditious things to say, so theyjust focus on... the audience, first and foremost. in one sense, it's just easy. you try to forget the noise. it's really hard because it doesn't sit well if you say older audiences have higher disposable income than younger audiences, older

audiences consume more linear tv. they should pay, why not? they consume enormous amount of tv, they earn proportionally more. younger audiences suffer from huge amounts of unemployment, stress from gender, sexuality, political stress and feeling disengaged from the nation. i worry about the stress that younger audiences are going through. it's absolutely right the bbc step in and notjust give them fun stuff and drama, but factual stuff and help them make sense of the complicated world. i can hear the fury of some of our audience are hearing you right now and saying how dare he say such a thing about older audiences! we talked a bit about bbc three, for those you don't know it's about, just tell us what pru is about.

it is set in a pupil referral unit which is a place where young people go if they been expelled from school, and i think that not a lot of people know the name pru or what it means, or the acronym. so i think it's a great opportunity to show that even some people who do know about it may have a negative outlook on what they are. they can be a place of hope for many young people, and having that smaller classes and having teachers will give them more time and energy. you can go on and achieve great things. so, essentially, we follow our four lead characters and all of the chaos that ensues. are you pleased with the ratings so far? yeah, i mean, who knows what the numbers are? we have to wait about 30 days to find out, but, yeah, the reviews have been good. we had four stars across the board,

and the feedback we're getting from young people and people who have been to pru and people at schools or who know people who have... you're going to get a bigger audience. stuart, when bbc three restarts, should it repeat little britain. why are you laughing? i think it should play things that younger audience loves and that's the third time you've laughed! sorry, i'm missing the point of the question. let me think. should we repeat little britain?

the heart of comity often involves offending some people, and that's why people laugh. personally, as a gay dad, i don't find the anti—homosexual jokes in little britain offensive, but i can see how some people can be really offended. i think it's made with love. stuart, thank you very much. let's turn to events in holyrood. invocations from the media rather than politics. callum, the national. it was founded in 2014, why? because there was an imbalance in scottish newspapers. i think there were around 30 daily original titles at the time. 37 of them either took a neutral stance against independence. the only one that did, the sunday herald, saw success off the back of this. the guy that was in that paper pitch

the idea of taken that. what do you say to those critics of yours, and there are a few, that you're essentially the in—house journal of the snp? i think the biggest problem with that is is actually the fact that the cause of independence and the independence movement is too bound up. it might be the case that a few parties are pro—independence, and you have a balanced view, but it's actually... unionists believe the same thing. this is a lot to do with the salmond drama at the moment. they smell blood here and think the way of damaging independence and putting halt to another five years is...

you've had a hard time in the way you've had others against independence. on certain issues, we had. don't go nearly far enough on things like land. we think they're not bolstering enough independence. the snp? yes. there's this union that exists within downing street. where is the independence unit in holyrood? 0k. you're tempting me towards making this a politics show. frank o'donnell, i want to talk to you about your publications in a moment, but with your long experience in scottish media, what would you say is being impact? i totally understand why there was a gap in the market with the national... i think that it has probably,

and callum would be closer to this than i, but it's activated some people who had stopped reading main steering media. given them a place to look at and reflect some of the reviews. there is an opinion that says the job of a newspaper is to confront people's biases, and to an extent, i suppose the national does that. i suppose for me, i suppose that engages people and what's going on around them. it has to be a good thing. you look after a number of papers in aberdeenshire, including the aberdeen citizen. do they have a political stance? completely independent, no. my personal view, and it does time with a history of the paper, is that i believe we shouldn't be telling people how to vote. iwant to... i feel i succeed if someone turns over the page and reads

in the column and vehemently disagrees, because even if they don't change their view, at least they understand a little more where that person is coming from. i think the job of the newspaper is to challenge people and is to make people read things that make them feel uncomfortable, because there is too much tribalism in society. there are too many people who take stances and don't act or stop being curious about why people disagree with them. you are personifying the case against twitter. i don't know if you have had the pleasure of looking... how can i do this? best not go the nk to get into trouble. if there are referendums tomorrow, would your papers remain neutral? absolutely. callum, there's a piece in your papers today saying uk media only "started paying attention to this new story at the end of next week when alex salmon appeared at the inquiry." it also points out... is your argument that the uk media is too obsessed with westminster

to cover national politics properly? i think so. i think it's interesting that some of the most high—profile media voices in london that have been covering this for a long time are using scottish voices who work with the uk media. people have been all over this for a long time, but there hasn't been much, i would've said, from the rest of the media. until something like alex salmond's testimony happened. frank, with their historical lens, how big a story do you think the salmond inquiry is? are your readers that interested? do think some people are saying the story has been overhyped by the media? no, i think it is a huge story when you think about the proximity

of the election in may, when you think about the case for indy ref ii, when you think about how important nicola sturgeon and alex salmond are to the snp. if sturgeon wasn't there, who would be the next leader? there is... some argue there is a posse of talent — some argue there is a posse of talent behind her and she is so far ahead _ talent behind her and she is so far ahead of— talent behind her and she is so far ahead of the rest. the implications are those individuals for the election consequently to be union, i don't think you can overstate how important the story is. when you look at the figures, that is backed up. sorry to interrupt. callum, would you go along with that? it's an absolutely massive story. it's huge.

i completely agree with everything frank says. how do you approach it when... are you not tempted to take sides? you must have great connections and both sides? it's really, really difficult because my sense of... people like to categorise it as the salmond camp and the sturgeon camp, but my sense is that the much bigger camp is in the middle, and i've always really respected these two. it's a bit sad. obviously, the two camps are very vocal, so it's just a case of him telling it straight, reporting the news, doing a really good job. not going any further than that. have you spoken to salmond or sturgeon in the past two weeks? not in the past two weeks. the same question of whether british journalism has a westminster problem. do you think london newspapers have a principal? often have a completely different story, versus the rest of the uk. i see you're grimacing. is that a smirk or a grimace?

i think covering politics is a lot more complex than ever has been, because it used to be the case that if you wanted to know what was going on, i think with devolution in the pandemic, has highlighted that. i say to cover the uk properly and understand nations is more complex and nuanced. you have got to know the issues and the character is a lot more. so, it's understandable that there is a bit of a westminster focus. i think that some of the characters in london who do cover stories tend to cover a bit like a foreign country, and i think there could be more done there to understand what's going on in scotland, particularly with what's happening at the moment. laura o'reilly, just briefly to you and finally to you. i see you're nodding. it's a subject that doesn't come

up every single day. _ it's not a subject everybody in westminster— it's not a subject everybody in westminster is— it's not a subject everybody in westminster is following - it's not a subject everybody in i westminster is following eagerly it's not a subject everybody in - westminster is following eagerly on twitten _ westminster is following eagerly on twitter. unfortunately, _ westminster is following eagerly on twitter. unfortunately, there - westminster is following eagerly on twitter. unfortunately, there does. twitter. unfortunately, there does need _ twitter. unfortunately, there does need to— twitter. unfortunately, there does need to be — twitter. unfortunately, there does need to be a — twitter. unfortunately, there does need to be a little _ twitter. unfortunately, there does need to be a little bit— twitter. unfortunately, there does need to be a little bit more - need to be a little bit more education _ need to be a little bit more education-— need to be a little bit more education. ., ~ i. . thank you so much to all of our guests. frank, callum, laura, stuart, teddy thank you for your time. goodbye. in the short—term the weather will be relatively quiet. some breaks in the cloud this afternoon in parts of the country with sunshine in the midlands

and south of the uk, but it is turning in the north—west of the uk with weather fronts pushing cloud, outbreaks of rain, overcast with occasional rain overnight in scotland and northern ireland. probably some of that rain reaching the lake district and northern england by the early hours. a touch of frost first thing on monday, wales, south of the uk and this is where the best of the weather will be on monday. sunshine from mid wales southwards. but broadly speaking, across the northern two thirds, cloudy at times and there will be rain. temperatures will recover up to ten, unsettled midweek.

this is bbc news, the headlines at four. the british—iranian woman, nazanin zaghari—ratcliffe, imprisoned in iran — has had her ankle tag removed, after her sentence came to an end. however, a new court case against her has been scheduled for next week. it is totally and utterly inhumane because at the centre of this is an innocent woman, her husband and her daughter, and they are just forgetting that, in all these grand power games, there are ordinary people who are paying a most terrible price. the prime minister has defended the government's i% payrise for the nhs, during a visit to a vaccine centre in north london. don't forget that there has been a public sector pay freeze. we're in pretty tough times. we've tried to give the nhs as much as we possibly can.