security forces in mozambique say dozens of people have been killed in an attack by islamist militants on the northern town of palma. hundreds of others, including foreign gas workers, managed to escape. many had spent several days beseiged in a hotel. as the uk's vaccine rollout reaches more than 30 million people, lockdown restrictions are being eased in england. two households, or groups of up to six people, will be able to meet outside. sports such as golf will also resume. new figures show the number of deaths linked to covid—19 in mexico is sixty per cent higher than previously thought. a government report suggests more than 320 thousand mexicans have died with the disease — second only to the united states. now on bbc news. hardtalk

welcome to hardtalk. i am stephen sackur. much of the art we love is presented via a medium, via canvas or recording or celluloid. but my guest todayis or celluloid. but my guest today is an artist whose primary resource is her own body. marina abramovic is the worlds most famous and acclaimed performance artist. in the course of a remarkable career, she has pushed yourself to the very limits of physical endurance and stirred intense reaction from audiences confronting her eye to eye. her art and life are one. what do they tell us?

marina abramovic, and upstate new york. welcome to hardtalk. hello everybody. it is new york. welcome to hardtalk. hello everybody.— hello everybody. it is a pleasure _ hello everybody. it is a pleasure to _ hello everybody. it is a pleasure to have - hello everybody. it is a pleasure to have you . hello everybody. it is al pleasure to have you on hello everybody. it is a - pleasure to have you on the programme. may i begin with the relationship you have with your audience, your viewer? relationship you have with your audience, yourviewer? because it seems to be no more intimate relationship than the one you forge with the people who have come to see your work because you are literally eye to eye or even skin to skin. do you relish that?— even skin to skin. do you relish that? ., , ., , , ., relish that? so many artists of a different _ relish that? so many artists of a different approach _ relish that? so many artists of a different approach to - relish that? so many artists of a different approach to the - a different approach to the public. some do not need the public, the, date it does not matter how many people are watching them. but i'm not one of them. for me, every single

person in the audience, every single person is important. it matters and i have to keep relationships emotional, physical and mental with them. that requires extraordinary levels of energy. i'm just thinking of your most famous performance work of all, the artist is present which went around the world but began at the museum of modern art in new york city and literally, thousands of people took to a chair right opposite of you and you required them to stare deep into your eyes and you would stare right back and you did that day, after day, after day. what kind of stamina and energy take? �* .,, what kind of stamina and energy take? �* , ., , ., take? almost three months and 716 and 716 _ take? almost three months and 716 and 716 and _ take? almost three months and 716 and 716 and a _ take? almost three months and 716 and 716 and a half _ take? almost three months and 716 and 716 and a half hours - 716 and 716 and a half hours and every single minute, ifelt in my body. and i thought it was supernatural because looking back, i do not even believe i made this work

because every day was so painful, so difficult that everything could be the last day in a suggested this performance to the greater, she said that he wanted to do this and the chair would be almost empty, i don't know why you want to do that. i said i did not care for was empty or not empty. i will be there and see what happens and really, a miracle happened.- what happens and really, a miracle happened. what about ou in miracle happened. what about you in pain? — miracle happened. what about you in pain? some _ miracle happened. what about you in pain? some of- miracle happened. what about you in pain? some of your- miracle happened. what about. you in pain? some of your most famous works and experiences have involved extreme experience and very painful experience.— experience and very painful exerience. ., ~ ., ., experience. you know, the human beinu experience. you know, the human bein: is experience. you know, the human being is always — experience. you know, the human being is always afraid _ experience. you know, the human being is always afraid of— being is always afraid of treating suffering, pain, and the temporal rarity of his life. and for me as a performance art, i stitch this difficulty in the front of the public and i glossed through them in my personal way. and i want to be a mirror to the

public. if i can do this, they can too. and then you come on the other side, free of the pain and free from the fear and this is really incredible. because we have the ability, all of us to do that. but because we have the ability, all of us to do that.— all of us to do that. but is there a — all of us to do that. but is there a danger— all of us to do that. but is there a danger when - all of us to do that. but is there a danger when you | all of us to do that. but is - there a danger when you push it to extremes, as you might agree with me you do, but the audience is more taken with the sensation and drama of it than the deeper meaning. and your rhythm series, which you did when you are very young, you started this series in the late 20s, you put your body through the stresses in one of those parts, you put your body inside a star and then you set the thing on fire and at one point, you passed out and the doctor had to leap from the audience and saviour. you are close to death. is that art is that high drama? it death. is that art is that high

drama? , ., ., ., drama? it is not high drama. lookin: drama? it is not high drama. looking at — drama? it is not high drama. looking at all _ drama? it is not high drama. looking at all civilisations . looking at all civilisations and other countries, australia or shamans from brazil and indonesia who actually go to the extremes through their body and ceremonies for the same reason, to get another to a higher state of consciousness. and you do not need to shock the people, it's about ridding yourself of fears that will have.~ . yourself of fears that will have. ~ ., ., ,, yourself of fears that will have. ~ ., ., .,~ , ., have. what do you make us human beinas have. what do you make us human beings who — have. what do you make us human beings who come _ have. what do you make us human beings who come to _ have. what do you make us human beings who come to you _ have. what do you make us human beings who come to you and - beings who come to you and immerse ourselves in your work and i'm thinking again that one of your rhythm series, i think it was rhythm series where you place yourself in a space and you place yourself nearby objects in more than 70 objects, including a gun, a bullet, a knife and other instruments that could really hurt you and you invited the public to do whatever they wanted with those instruments on your body and some of them did some pretty terrifying

things. what did you make of the public at that moment? you have to see _ the public at that moment? you have to see the _ the public at that moment? gm. have to see the circumstance. this is in the 70s thousand 2a years old and i was fed up with the relation to the performance art, this kind of performance art, this kind of performance art was ridiculed by the large critics and also the public and i wanted to do something really radical. if i am there and all objects you can use on me and i'm taking responsibility, what is going to happen. and i remember on this performance only once and at the end of this exercise, under the public could kill you. it is not me who is going to kill myself because i don't want to. it is the public who can kill you in the public who can kill you in the 25 years later, i make different performers present with different rules that you consider the front of me as long as you want to, stare into my eyes and just be there in the present. and then a miracle happened. the public wait for

hours and hours and sit at the front of me and there photographed. they are filmed, they are watched by the other audience and there's nowhere to go except into themselves and then, when they went into themselves, they started crying and it was highly emotional work and it hundred 50,000 people, people experience that. tactical, the intensity of it in your work because it seems to me thatjust about in your work because it seems to me that just about will usually talk about, that is the audience being transformed by a piece of art, it seems to me you also get transformed by your art because you are a participant in it and just going back to the one where you put these objects in front and invited people to use them on your body, did you emerge transformed in the sense that perhaps gave you a very bleak view of human nature because frankly, some people have

pretty much abused and tortured you. pretty much abused and tortured ou. , ., ., . , , you. ever performance brings ou to a you. ever performance brings you to a new _ you. ever performance brings you to a new experience - you. ever performance brings you to a new experience and | you. ever performance brings i you to a new experience and of the performance is important in my life and your step for the next piece and it is transformative. i really think that the most important thing that the most important thing that you mention, it is the long duration of performance work. when i perform the art it is present. before that, i make house for 12 hours, 12 days without eating and performing was three months. when i said in a chair, i was at the same any more, the transformation was enormous but it was for the public and the performer doing it. and actually, two of us the public and be created to work together and we cannot exist without each other. let together and we cannot exist without each other.— together and we cannot exist without each other. let me take ou back without each other. let me take you back a _ without each other. let me take you back a little _ without each other. let me take you back a little bit _ without each other. let me take you back a little bit to _ without each other. let me take you back a little bit to your - you back a little bit to your life, your background is fascinating and i see connections with your

fascination with pain in your childhood. because you've written about your childhood and clearly it was very troubled in a relationship with your parents were both members of the partisan fighting force, fighting the nazis in world war ii were then members of the socialist elite in yugoslavia and your relationship with them, particularly your mum, it was very difficult and those full of pain, wasn't it? yes it was really — full of pain, wasn't it? yes it was really like _ full of pain, wasn't it? yes it was really like during - full of pain, wasn't it? yes it| was really like during military service. my mother would wake up service. my mother would wake up in the middle of the night if my bed was too messy when i slept and i would have to make the bed and then go back to sleep. so now come when i go to the hotels, people do not even know i was there because ijust close the bed and make it look untouched and really well—trained. untouched and really well-trained.- untouched and really well-trained. ., �* well-trained. you're either really trained _ well-trained. you're either really trained or _ well-trained. you're either really trained or really - really trained or really traumatised and sometimes when i read your memoirs and also in the literature work, i wonder

if you're a traumatised person? it is so interesting that so many people want to put this point of view of being traumatised and that kind of an abusive childhood that all of this, it serves the purpose to make my work as i am doing now. to make this kind of performance work, you need extreme willpower which i got for my parents. you need extreme dedication and motivation as to why you're doing this the only reason why i'm doing to disturb my work. to really live the human spirit. all of the stakes, it's not the shocking comments it's about transformation. you i will play the role of the psychologist. i believe your mother barely ever kissed you and you do crave to be at the centre of attention and to be

loved, i guess. centre of attention and to be loved, iguess. is centre of attention and to be loved, i guess. is that part of it? we associate that with performers and you are a performance artist. but you cannot make _ performance artist. but you cannot make me _ performance artist. but you cannot make me guilty - performance artist. but you cannot make me guilty for. performance artist. but you - cannot make me guilty for that. i think this is such a normal human need and to succeed to be loved by the public and also by my students, which also in an instant to the rerun, where we teach young promise performance artists. i have this notion of love that is wonderful and so, i do not miss this mother love, and this and i was young. i don't wonder why she never kissed me around four years old, she was so surprised by the question she said but, i don't want to spoil you. she did not spoil me, this was sure. ., ., ., , sure. you are not raised 'ust b our sure. you are not raised 'ust by your parents fl sure. you are not raised 'ust by your parents but i sure. you are not raised 'ust by your parents but also h sure. you are not raised just by your parents but also by i sure. you are not raised just l by your parents but also by his socialist collective ideology as well and i wonder whether

your determination is a young woman in their 20s to push artistic boundaries, to use your own body, even your naked body which scandalised belgrade at the time, was a part of a rebellion against this sort of conformity demanded by socialism?— socialism? yes, it is absolutely _ socialism? yes, it is absolutely against i socialism? yes, it is i absolutely against the socialism? yes, it is _ absolutely against the system. i was not an easy child, it's very black sheep in that country and one more important part of my background is my grandmother who was highly spiritual and i spent my early childhood and are six years old with her. my entire background is a strange mix between communism and deep religion. so, that makes me a tibetan buddhist. with a mix. i suggested that you had merged life and art and actually that the two concepts were

indistinguishable in your entire existence. let's get back to your annual life together because i'm thinking of your relationships. the really intimate personal relationships in your life, particularly an essential one with the german artist where you and he merged your personal intimate lives and your professional artistic performances to a level that is almost unimaginable to other people. do you believe you, for lack of a better word, screwed up lack of a better word, screwed up relationship with him? yes. up relationship with him? yes, absolutely- _ up relationship with him? yes, absolutely. at _ up relationship with him? yes, absolutely. at the _ up relationship with him? 1a: absolutely. at the beginning it was a dream relationship, we met on her birthday, we found out we are on the same day born and we asked for a great relationship with working and living together and just a simple car, travelling like a modern performer artist around

the world. but after 12 years we split, it was really a nightmare. i we split, it was really a nightmare.— we split, it was really a niahtmare. ., , ., ., ., nightmare. i really do want to ex - lore nightmare. i really do want to exolore this — nightmare. i really do want to explore this great _ nightmare. i really do want to explore this great wall - nightmare. i really do want to explore this great wall of - explore this great wall of china performance come of it and put it that way. it is unlike any art piece of ever heard of. as i understand it, you planned to walk from the opposite ends of the great wall of china, which is obviously some 1200 km each of walking, meat in the middle and then marry. but by the time you did it, you are not going to marry because you decided you were going to part forever. it because you decided you were going to part forever.- going to part forever. it was 2500 each, _ going to part forever. it was 2500 each, 5000 _ going to part forever. it was 2500 each, 5000 in - going to part forever. it was 2500 each, 5000 in total. going to part forever. it was. 2500 each, 5000 in total and going to part forever. it was - 2500 each, 5000 in total and we took three years to get permission of china, china was not on board at the time, and finally they said yes to us, our relationship was on the end and we never want to give up anything and so we said, ok

instead of walking the chinese wall which we want to walk on the opposite ends of an marry, we decided to walk on the opposite ends, meet in the middle and say goodbye. and that was a really big painful to buy because of that time, i was a0 years old, i lost the man i loved and i lost my work because work was always together for 12 years. so this was a very difficult time in my life to rebuild myself again. let me dig even deeper into this merging of life and art because you've written very honestly about the decisions you made not to have children and you suggested that you felt as a creative, and artist woman that having children would constrict your ability to be as creative and free as you wanted to be. you had abortions. looking back on it, do you think you're right that it completely affected your artistic life? i completely affected your artistic life?— artistic life? i absolutely think i was _ artistic life? i absolutely think i was right. - artistic life? i absolutely think i was right. i- artistic life? i absolutely think i was right. i never wanted children, i neverfelt

the need for children and i never felt that the clock was ticking and that i knew that the idea of my work is somewhere else and not in family. and i neverfelt sorry for that. family. and i neverfelt sorry forthat. in family. and i neverfelt sorry for that. in looking into the life, she had children and had to wait until her husband die until she made a major career. ijust wanted to until she made a major career. i just wanted to work. until she made a major career. ijust wanted to work. i until she made a major career. i just wanted to work.- i just wanted to work. i think our i just wanted to work. i think your mum — i just wanted to work. i think your mum point _ i just wanted to work. i think your mum point you - i just wanted to work. i think your mum point you wrote i i just wanted to work. i think your mum point you wrote a | your mum point you wrote a manifesto for artistic life and it was very interesting because she suggested that it was solitude, the key was not to tie yourself to a partner, not to get married. and yet, you have been married twice and you've had all sorts of relationships. you've kind of broken your own rules from time to time. ~ ., .., broken your own rules from time to time. ~ . .. ., broken your own rules from time to time. ~ . ., ., , to time. what i can do. nobody is perfect- _ to time. what i can do. nobody is perfect. plus, _ to time. what i can do. nobody is perfect. plus, my _ to time. what i can do. nobody is perfect. plus, my marriage, l is perfect. plus, my marriage, most marriages are very short,

the marriage that actually, and belgrade, i want to marry my colleague from art academy and the main reason was that actually, i could have the freedom from my mother to come home after ten in the evening and we divorced. and then i married the italian artist and that lasted two years. not too long. i that lasted two years. not too lonu. ., that lasted two years. not too lonu. . ., that lasted two years. not too lonu. ., ., ., that lasted two years. not too lon.. . .,.,~.,, long. i want to ask about belgrade _ long. i want to ask about belgrade because - long. i want to ask about| belgrade because clearly, long. i want to ask about - belgrade because clearly, we discussed her background and it is hugely important to who you are and it intrigues me that in belgrade and will be no call serbia, the former yugoslavia more generally, you perhaps are not as lauded and as popular as people might think because you're frank the one of the most famous artists to come out of serbia and get inside belgrade, as i understand it, people are a bit ambivalent about you, maybe because of the

way you have spoken about socialism and your upbringing. do you resent that shallow you know, a3 years, i never made a show in belgrade and know, 43 years, i never made a show in belgrad- show in belgrade and finally the government _ show in belgrade and finally the government invites - show in belgrade and finally the government invites me | show in belgrade and finally - the government invites me after a3 years to make a show and the museum of modern art that has been closed for more than ten years. this was a huge thing in my generation really do not like me. my generation who very classic painters and really the traditional artists, cannot believe that i could sit on the chair and do nothing and get all this publicity. this will never change and then, i had record visitors and more than 5a, 55 thousands which is a very big number in belgrade and most of the time, if he percent was very young audience and when i was doing this, the lecture of 300 people, they had to change locations and on the

museum, i had 6500 people all the young want to listen to me, this was kind of a woodstock. it was incredibly emotional and it was incredibly emotional and i knew that i had lots of admiration of the younger generation, my generation, i don't think they will ever accept me. don't think they will ever accept me— don't think they will ever accet me. ., �* ., . , accept me. you've won many presence — accept me. you've won many presence in _ accept me. you've won many presence in your _ accept me. you've won many presence in your life, - accept me. you've won many presence in your life, you - accept me. you've won many i presence in your life, you have been lauded and also you've got some pretty fierce critics and some pretty fierce critics and some of them say that in recent years, particularly, you have become seduced by celebrity and the spotlight of the media and you've done your performances with big stars like jay—z and lady gaga, you've got her involved and may be some see you as a sell—out. i involved and may be some see you as a sell-out.— you as a sell-out. i 'ust said a few years h you as a sell-out. i 'ust said a few years ago, _ you as a sell-out. ijust said a few years ago, you - you as a sell-out. ijust said a few years ago, you know, | you as a sell-out. ijust said - a few years ago, you know, when i did not have money, we will literally be on the street and

not pay the bills, and then, we'll start being recognised and we will finally start having the money and even made better music than before because we have the full stomachs and they told us we have sold out. i think the public have this incredible nostalgic relationship of the poor artist that they're going to help. my work was not largely publicised and after the performance, i did my work as always, nothing changed but people put you on the projection on you that the idea of the stars and the jets sets and they criticise you for. it is just a side effect of the public perception. they like to put you up and they like to destroy you. but the only thing i have to do is to continue to do what i'm doing.— do what i'm doing. talking about legacy. _ do what i'm doing. talking about legacy, and - do what i'm doing. talking i about legacy, and understand that you're still working, but

thinking of your legacy, do you have a problem with the fact that in other art forms, the legacy is obvious to see. it sits in the campus, the famous painting of the celluloid film or the words on the page for book. it is very easy to see when artist legacy is but so much of your work is in that moment of connection between you and living human beings should both sit on a chair in a can never be recreated and therefore, you don't leave behind the same sort of artistic legacy as other creators. i artistic legacy as other creators-— artistic legacy as other creators. ., �* , creators. i don't believe the traditional— creators. i don't believe the traditional way _ creators. i don't believe the traditional way but - creators. i don't believe the traditional way but i - creators. i don't believe the traditional way but i believej traditional way but i believe in many other ways. the historical pieces, we have an institute which actually, we learn and teach people how to read it, notjust my work but the work of other artists because i'm interested in

preservation of that artform in the first place. and it is all interesting things, and this reality which i create a piece discard alive and i thumbed with a 36 film camera and actually can have life inside and that really lives forever. you actually see through technology, you can create an immaterial way, immortality. technology, you can create an immaterialway, immortality. i immaterial way, immortality. i want immaterialway, immortality. i want to quote you back at yourself, not too long ago you said there are three marinas. there is warrior moreno who can endure any pain, their spiritual marina who can endure any amount of stillness and there is, ps marina abramovic, who adores celebrity. which is the one you want the world to remember and to focus on? the whole point _ remember and to focus on? the whole point of _ remember and to focus on? iie: whole point of this remember and to focus on? "iie: whole point of this discovery of three marina abramovic comments to give them equal

space to live inside me because normally, the public always want to see the heroic one. it is easy to project that to the public and then the public discovers later i'm in the person dies, the other ones and then they are disappointed. but my case, i discover that they all live very harmoniously and now have the same space and thatis now have the same space and that is the only important to show the public because in that way, we can connect our vulnerability to the vulnerability to the vulnerability of the public and this is why we have such a connection with them because they have also, all of us, they have many, many marina and themselves.— themselves. you share vulnerability, - themselves. you share vulnerability, yours - themselves. you share| vulnerability, yours and theirs? �* , vulnerability, yours and theirs? j ., theirs? by exposing that, we all deeply — theirs? by exposing that, we all deeply connected. - theirs? by exposing that, we all deeply connected. marina j all deeply connected. marina abramovic. _ all deeply connected. marina abramovic, it _ all deeply connected. marina abramovic, it is _ all deeply connected. marina abramovic, it is been - all deeply connected. marina abramovic, it is been of - all deeply connected. marina i abramovic, it is been of major pleasure having you on hardtalk.— pleasure having you on hardtalk. ., ,, , ., , pleasure having you on hardtalk. ., ~' , ., , .

hello. it is going to feel like spring for the first part of this week for many of us. in fact, in some places you'd be forgiven for thinking summer had arrived early with values up to 22 or it may be 23 degrees. but by the end of the week it will feel more like winter has returned. much colder air digging its way southward just in time for the easter weekend. and in the shorter term, northwest scotland could see localised flooding over the next couple of days as this wriggling weather front brings heavy and persistent rain. to the south of that weather front that's where we're going to be importing the very warm air but noticed there is something much colder up to the north. that will come into play by the end of the week. along the line of our weather front, heavy rain particular for northern ireland and western scotland.

very, very mild to start monday morning. 12 or 13 degrees in places. but it is going to be quite cloudy, misty and murky for many. rain pulling northwards out of northern ireland by continuing across western scotland all day long. heavy rain at that. some brightness for eastern scotland and certainly some brightest skies developing across england and wales. in the best of the sunshine here across parts of eastern england for example, we could get to 20 or 21 degrees with a little bit cooler for some english channel coast. through monday night and on into tuesday the rain continues across northwest scotland it's the persistence of the rain that gives the potential for localised flooding. the further south and east you are on tuesday though, any early mist patch as you're clear, there will be lots of sunshine and tuesday is set to be a very warm day indeed. we could get as high as 23 degrees. pretty exceptional for this point in march. not as warm further north where we keep cloud and rain. that cloud and rain on wednesday it will start to journey slowly southwards. the rain fizzling away

but behind it some colderairdigging in. still some warmth towards the south on wednesday but up to the north, temperatures taking quite the tumble. and as we move out of wednesday towards the end of the week that frontal system in the north will finally journey its way southward. high—pressure building in behind there will still be a fair amount of dry weather but much colder weather sinking its way southwards for the end of the week. and for the easter weekend it is going to feel decidedly chilly. there could even be some wintry showers.

this is bbc news with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. i'm lewis vaughan jones. dozens of people have been killed in north—east mozambique in an attack by islamist insurgents. thousands have been forced to flee. the mexican government admits the true number of its coronavirus deaths is 60 % higher than previously reported. protests in myanmar continue , as security forces open fire at a funeral. the case that shook america and reverberated around the world — we have a special report as the man accused of george floyd's murder goes on trial.