police body camera footage appears to show that a 13—year—old boy shot dead in the us city of chicago last month was not armed at the moment police opened fire. adam toledo is seen apparently dropping a handgun and raising his hands less than a second before being shot. a white former policeman charged with the murder of a black man, george floyd, in the united states, has waived his right to testify on the final day of evidence at his trial. derek chauvin is accused of killing mr floyd by kneeling on his neck with undue force. president biden has struck a moderate tone in defending a new raft of sanctions on russia, describing the measures as a proportionate and measured response to russian interference in us affairs. earlier, moscow warned the us ambassador that the sanctions were "raising the temperature of confrontation."

now on bbc news — hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. eight decades after the slaughter of millions of dues began in eastern europe, the truth of what happened is still denied by some. my guest today is a sylvia, an american writer whose grandfather was lithuanian. a man hailed as an heroic patriot who paid with his life resisting the soviets. but according to his granddaughter, he was no hero. he had the blood of thousands ofjews on his hands. she has chosen to speak out, angering many in lithuania. what happens when truth trumps family

loyalty? silvia foti in chicago, welcome to hardtalk. hello, thank you.— hello, thank you. yours is an extraordinary _ hello, thank you. yours is an extraordinary story _ hello, thank you. yours is an extraordinary story to - hello, thank you. yours is an extraordinary story to tell. i extraordinary story to tell. let's begin by establishing why you chose to dig so deep into the life of your grandfather who, of course, was a man you had never met because he was executed by the soviets in 1947. so executed by the soviets in 1910. so why did you go so deep into his life? ease 1947. so why did you go so deep into his life?— into his life? eye kind of a sort of stumbled - into his life? eye kind of a sort of stumbled into - into his life? eye kind of a sort of stumbled into it, l into his life? eye kind of al sort of stumbled into it, to into his life? eye kind of a - sort of stumbled into it, to be honest. i got this story from

my mother on her deathbed. and i thought i was going to write about a hero when i started this. i had no idea about his dark past. and it really only came about when i was burying my mother in lithuania and was using the school named after him when the director very casually mentioned that your grandfather was accused of killing jews. and i almost fainted when he said that. it was the very first time i had heard that. i was 38 years old, my mother had just died, my grandmother had just died, i thought i was going to work on a wonderful story about my grandfather, a world war ii hero who fought against the communists. and when he said that that was the first time that that was the first time that it really hit me like a ton of bricks.

i assumed it was common as propaganda and only really focused on his heroic side for ten years and that is what i thought i would write about and all of these three bookshelves behind me is information my mother left me to write the story and i spent ten years going through all of that. i came across, however, a document that started to change my mind and he had written something in 1933, called raise your head with the weighing in. he was only 22 when he wrote it and when i opened it up, i have it right he next to me, when i opened it up, i thought i was going to read another patriotic brochure or about how wonderful it was to be lithuanian and it was really not like that. it was all about why let the weighing in should not buy anything from jewish people,

why lithuanians, why the jewish people are considered foreigners and it was like this foreigners and it was like this for 32 pages. i foreigners and it was like this for 32 pages-_ foreigners and it was like this for 32 pages. i have read pages of it and it _ for 32 pages. i have read pages of it and it is _ for 32 pages. i have read pages of it and it is deeply _ of it and it is deeply anti—semitic and i've seen other documentation that i put in the public domain which suggest that by the late 19305, he was an admirer of adolf hitler and benito mussolini and these things he was writing about, your wider family must have about, your widerfamily must have known about some of this stuff so when you approach this and were commissioned by your dying mother to write the full history of your grandfather, obviously you couldn't discu55 obviously you couldn't discuss it with your mother, she had passed away and discuss it with a wider family, passed away and discuss it with a widerfamily, were people prepared to acknowledge that she was a fascist 5ympathi5er

and an anti—semite and what it something you could have a discussion with them about? hat discussion with them about? not at all, discussion with them about? not at all. they _ discussion with them about? iirrt at all, they told me it was propaganda and like a good that the weighing in, that is what i believe as well. and not sure if they knew about the pro shop because my mother mu5t've known about it, my grandmother mu5t've known about it but they never talked about it with me. i don't know that my father knew about it, it certainly never brought it up then. and, really, everybody believed it was really, everybody believed it wa5ju5t really, everybody believed it was just communist propaganda and the weighing in is where the victims, two regimes, the nazis and the communist and the lithuanian5 were just innocent, killing dues, they were killed by the nazis. —— ju5t killing the jewish people. by the nazis. -- just killing the jewish people.- by the nazis. -- just killing the jewish people. now we're caettin the jewish people. now we're getting to _ the jewish people. now we're getting to the _ the jewish people. now we're getting to the nub _ the jewish people. now we're getting to the nub of- the jewish people. now we're getting to the nub of very - the jewish people. now we're | getting to the nub of very dark 5tory. 0nce getting to the nub of very dark 5tory. once you have begun to

realise that to make good on your promise to write your grandfather's 5tory, your promise to write your grandfather's story, you would have to dig and begin to doubt bases, you went to the weenie, think, for quite sometime and you talk to a lot of people and this is where it gets to the crux of the darkness, you, i believe, you have found absolutely overwhelming evidence and proof that your grandfather was intimately involved in the mass murder of jews, and my right? —— lithuania. i jews, and my right? -- lithuania.— jews, and my right? -- lithuania. ., ., lithuania. i thought i would din into lithuania. i thought i would dig into it— lithuania. i thought i would dig into it to _ lithuania. i thought i would dig into it to exonerate - lithuania. i thought i would | dig into it to exonerate him. that is why initially began digging into it. one i was in lithuania, i've talked to several people and it really became very clear that he played a very large role in killing 1800 jews in the first of three towns that he was

involved in. so...— involved in. so... let's be clear. the _ involved in. so... let's be - clear. the detail matters. when you say he was very heavily involved, do you have evidence that he either killed jews himself we commissioned... because he was a brigade, a sort of militia leader. he had been fighting the russians, the soviets, and then, of course, the nazis were encroaching on ghazouani and territory. i believe the nazis reached out to some of these militia groups trying to enlist them as helpers in driving the soviets out, but do you have evidence that in this period, in the summer of 1941, your grandfather actually committed murder himself or commissioned others to commit murder? i don't have evidence that he committed murder himself. but there is evidence... he was the commandant of this area, which is the lowlands. and he used a little town as his had waters

to fight against the communist. the rebellion started 22june, 1941, which is what i had always heard. they had not heard until they got deep into the story that it was the beginning of the holocaust in lithuania and the beginning of operation barbarossa. so he was the head of that area. and there is no way for someone to be the head of the militia and not understand what was happening to thejews. 0n not understand what was happening to thejews. on top of that, there was a witness, his secretary, and he wrote a memoir that said that he gave the order to kill these 2000 jews. so he was a live witness. yes, i have looked at the detail you provide a new basically have this secretary

working injonas noreika's working in jonas noreika's offers, working injonas noreika's offers, describing how the commandant, that isjonas commandant, that is jonas noreika, commandant, that isjonas noreika, said to him i have issued the order to shoot every last one of them. that is extraordinarily powerful, but aggers in a court of law people would say that is oral testimony, some might even say it is hearsay. it is not written documentary evidence. i5 written documentary evidence. is that something of a problem for you? is that something of a problem foryou? now is that something of a problem for you? now in lithuania, everything you have written, and we can see the book you have written behind you, everything you have written is coming under the closest of close scrutiny. are you absolutely sure, in your mind, but this accusation you are laying at the door of your own grandfather of being, notjust grandfather of being, not just an grandfather of being, notjust an accessory, but being a key part of the first months of the holocaust in lithuania, it is absolutely irrefutable, is that? , , , .,

that? in my mind, yes. you know, in — that? in my mind, yes. you know, in the _ that? in my mind, yes. you know, in the last _ that? in my mind, yes. you know, in the last one - that? in my mind, yes. you know, in the last one who i know, in the last one who wanted to find this out. i've really wanted a very pure, pristine, angelic saints as a grandfather. that's what i wanted. that's how i was raised to believe how he was. in a court of law, is before a court of law now, so i guess we will see what has happened. you know, i am a journalist. and as a journalist, we are supposed to find at least three pieces of evidence to corroborate. there are more than three pieces. there are more than three ieces. �* , ., ., there are more than three ieces. �* , . ., ., pieces. as we have alluded to alread , pieces. as we have alluded to already. jonas _ pieces. as we have alluded to already, jonas noreika - pieces. as we have alluded to already, jonas noreika is - pieces. as we have alluded to already, jonas noreika is a i already, jonas noreika is a huge figure in lithuania's modern history. he is regarded as a hero, a martyr, a guy who gave his life resisting the soviets, because he was executed in 1947 for standing up executed in 1947 for standing up to the soviet occupation invasion of lithuania. but those who defend him, to this very day in lithuania make two points, first of all they say

you have to understand that lithuanians were victims twice over, they were threatened both from the west by the nazis and from the west by the nazis and from the east by the russians and the lithuanians really had no agency at this time of 1941, 1942, in their own country's condition. that they were victims, above all else. that is .1. .2 isjonas noreika was eventually put into a concentration camp by the nazis and his defenders say there is your evidence that he was no nazi. , ,., nazi. the first point, there was a provisional - nazi. the first point, there i was a provisional government nazi. the first point, there - was a provisional government of lithuania. there was a lithuanian activists' front that were extremely anti—semitic, they lead this uprising against the soviets and one. the part that has been hidden to lithuanians is how deeply they worked with the germans to have this uprising. in the other part that was put in for me, at least, was

that... are and much of this was probably nazi propaganda to begin with, and i think they lithuania probably ate it up, was that every single jew, lithuania probably ate it up, was that every singlejew, from the tiniest baby to the eldest grandmother is a communist spy. so theyjust grandmother is a communist spy. so they just gave grandmother is a communist spy. so theyjust gave lithuanians license to kill everyone. and, you know, if it were just the military aged men who were jewish, that would be one thing, but if it was everybody, everybody with just a drop of jewish blood in them, that is a completely different story. that is beyond war. this is genocide. that is beyond war. this is genocide-— that is beyond war. this is uenocide. �* . ,, , genocide. and address my point too, that actually _ genocide. and address my point too, that actually jonas - too, that actuallyjonas noreika ended up in a concentration camp, which suggests that the nazis did not regard him as an entirely sympathetic figure.- regard him as an entirely sympathetic figure. yes. this stri - ed sympathetic figure. yes. this stripped me _ sympathetic figure. yes. this stripped me pp _ sympathetic figure. yes. this stripped me up for— sympathetic figure. yes. this stripped me up for a - sympathetic figure. yes. this stripped me up for a long - sympathetic figure. yes. this. stripped me up for a long time too. eye kept asking myself how

could a jew killer and up any nazi concentration camp, that makes no sense to me. you have to go really deep into the details. most of thejews were killed in 1941. and my grandfather played a big role in all that. now, is 1943 after the battle of stalingrad and now the nazis are losing are now the nazis are losing are now all of a sudden my grandfather and a lot of other lithuanians have a lot of courage to stand up to the nazis. that's what he did. it is at that time he started to stand up to the nazis. it was not to save jews though. stand up to the nazis. it was not to savejews though. it stand up to the nazis. it was not to save jews though. it was to get lithuania free. for not to save jews though. it was to get lithuania free.— to get lithuania free. for the purposes _ to get lithuania free. for the purposes of— to get lithuania free. for the purposes of time _ to get lithuania free. for the purposes of time i'm - to get lithuania free. for the purposes of time i'm now - to get lithuania free. for the i purposes of time i'm now going to demand that we fast forward all the way to 2018— 2019. what is extraordinary as it was your story, all this investigation into the evil, the darkness, right at your own family's doorstep, you then decided, you are going to confront lithuania with this, you are going to

have a campaign to have your own grandfather's name taken off the different memorials that celebrate him still inside the country and you joined forces with a descendant of lithuanian jews whose family had been wiped out and, you believe, some of them wiped out ijy believe, some of them wiped out by your own grandfather. and from his point of view you, yourfamily represent from his point of view you, your family represent the reason why hundreds of his forefathers, his predecessors in his family were eliminated and he is so mindful that 95% of all lithuanian jews were eliminated in the course of the nazi rule in lithuania. so this is a man who has every reason to regard you with the deepest of suspicion. yes. i think it was bowled over

though by the fact that i was coming out against my grandfather and i was not defending them. i was 1 of the 1st of the weighing in that he met who was willing to look into the holocaust of the waimea and really believe that lithuanians unfortunately played a large role in that and it was notjust played a large role in that and it was not just the german nazis. and started a whole lawsuit against the genocide centre of the waimea. = lawsuit against the genocide centre of the waimea.- lawsuit against the genocide centre of the waimea. - set of little waimea. _ centre of the waimea. - set of little waimea. and _ centre of the waimea. - set of little waimea. and i _ centre of the waimea. - set of little waimea. and i need - centre of the waimea. - set of little waimea. and i need to l little waimea. and i need to flag something remarkable. you and he were fighting against the genocide and research centre in the waimea and the museum of genocide victims of little waimea, institutions you would think would be telling the truth, these organisations are telling the history and

connections to the holocaust where in fact it seems in your view were covering everything up? view were covering everything u . ? , ., , view were covering everything u? , ., , , up? yes, to me, this is the problem- — up? yes, to me, this is the problem. they _ up? yes, to me, this is the problem. they are - up? yes, to me, this is the problem. they are basing l problem. they are basing my grandfather heroic them on the kgb documents. normally they would throw them out and use that as a — just follow them up but there entire case is based on 3000 pages of transcripts on the interrogations of my grandfather and they were interrogating him for leading a rebellion against the soviets, thatis rebellion against the soviets, that is all they cared about. they really did not care about the massacre of the jewish people but it was still early days of the soviets. in those 3000 pages, there is no evidence that he killed the jewish people. but in their own archives, their own lithuania, when he was district chief during the nazi occupation, he wrote about 1000 documents. of

those 1000, 70 have to do with the holocaust so his signature is on 70 of the document that have to do with the holocaust, creating a ghetto, rounding up the jewish people, creating a ghetto, rounding up thejewish people, collecting their property, distributing their property, distributing their property, distributing their property, and even details of finding barbed wire and nails for a ghetto. so, to me, this is pretty overwhelming! me, this is pretty overwhelmina! ., , ., , overwhelming! the whole story is overwhelming. _ overwhelming! the whole story is overwhelming. you - overwhelming! the whole story is overwhelming. you sit - overwhelming! the whole story is overwhelming. you sit here i is overwhelming. you sit here is overwhelming. you sit here is an american of the weighing in heritage, little waimea, still it seems does not want to hear your story —— of lithuanian heritage. you try to get his partaken of the academy of sciences, you lost the case and the plaque was vandalised but it was replaced by the authorities, it still sits there and there is still a

school in lithuania named after your grandfather, a road named after your grandfather and still collectively in the memory regarded as a hero. how do you feel about that? i am not surprised. _ do you feel about that? i am not surprised. on _ do you feel about that? i am not surprised. on one - do you feel about that? i am not surprised. on one level. not surprised. on one level because i kind of expected this, it took me a long time to look at the truth but i dug very deeply. most of them have not douglas deeply. they are in denial and they all think i'm a russian spy in my chicago accent! ifeel very sad russian spy in my chicago accent! i feel very sad that lithuania cannotjust take lithuania cannot just take responsibility lithuania cannotjust take responsibility for what happened. this was 80 years ago. we can do it! we can look into our dark side of our souls and realise we did something really horrible, and we should, we should really admit it. hagar we should really admit it. how far do you _ we should really admit it. how far do you think— we should really admit it. how far do you think the _ far do you think the culpability of lithuania goes? because there are campaigners

for example, ephraim arrive, a key investigator and he says and he is drawing on what has happened of the story ofjonas noreika and the weights treated in lithuania, and he says that lithuania has been a locomotive pulling the whole train of holocaust distortion across eastern europe. would you go that far? ., , that far? that is colourful. may be- — that far? that is colourful. may be- i— that far? that is colourful. - may be. i don't know. poland, too. i don't know their history though as much as i do lithuania's. the holocaust would not have happened if it were not for the nazis. probably what would have happened were programmes here and there but not the entire decimation of 95% of thejewish population. the nazis, there

were only 1000 nazis in lithuania during that time. this is the nazi resistance from lithuania, not an single nazi was shot, not a single nazi was shot, not a single nazi was shot, not a single nazi was killed during the entire nazi occupation and yet, over 200,000 jewish people were shot and killed. that is the nazi resistance.— shot and killed. that is the nazi resistance. how does this matter today. _ matter today, the key event, the mass murder of 1800 jewish people that you believe your grandfather was directly and intimately involved with, happened 80 years ago, getting to the truth and telling the truth to all lithuanian people and all of the world, does that matter so much, 80 years on? i think 220,000 lives that were murdered needlessly, innocent civilians, matters deeply. it is a sin. the soul of lithuania is a sin. the soul of lithuania is at stake and it needs to redeem itself. it doesn't

matter. redeem itself. it doesn't matter-— redeem itself. it doesn't matter. ., matter. he said the solar lithuania _ matter. he said the solar lithuania is _ matter. he said the solar lithuania is at _ matter. he said the solar lithuania is at stake, - matter. he said the solar lithuania is at stake, i i matter. he said the solar| lithuania is at stake, i am intrigued about what has happened inside your family. you have said that you would never have written this book if your mother all grandmother were still alive ——at soul. you honestly say that your grandmother told you before she died that you should let history lie, there is no need to do digging around. you ignored your grandmother. you did not find the story your mother wanted you to find. 0n did not find the story your mother wanted you to find. on a personal level, do you find this very difficult? it personal level, do you find this very difficult?- this very difficult? it has been very _ this very difficult? it has been very difficult. - this very difficult? it has been very difficult. i - this very difficult? it has i been very difficult. i mean, there were times i was really depressed about all of this. there were times ijust depressed about all of this. there were times i just wanted to not continue with this anymore. there were times i just wanted to throw the whole manuscript away and give up. i also feel like story is too important. i eventually came back to it and i feel that story is very important and

it's notjustjonas noreika. it is lithuania and it's notjust lithuania, it is other countries in eastern europe as well. genocide is not a light matter. war is horrible, as bad as it is, but genocide is over—the—top, it is over—the—top, it is over—the—top and it really, it really upsets me that my countrymen, first of all, did it, and it also upsets me that they cannot admit they did it. notjust your they cannot admit they did it. not just your countrymen, they cannot admit they did it. notjust your countrymen, your not just your countrymen, your grandfather, notjust your countrymen, your grandfather, and notjust your grandfather, and notjust your grandfather, and notjust your grandfather, and if i'm honest with you, your story suggest that your own grandmother and your own mother knew and lied, and covered up, and you have to deal with that. i and covered up, and you have to deal with that.— deal with that. i know. all i can say is _ deal with that. i know. all i can say is they _ deal with that. i know. all i can say is they are - deal with that. i know. all i | can say is they are products deal with that. i know. all i i can say is they are products of their generation. i do not think my mother knew as much as my grandmother. i think my

mother got as far as hearing about it and then going into denial and ifollowed her denial and i followed her footsteps denial and ifollowed her footsteps are about ten years so i think that as far as she got and just called it communist propaganda. my grandmother though, she knew. i'm convinced my grandmother knew. ., , , i'm convinced my grandmother knew. . , , ., ., knew. that is very hard for you to accept _ knew. that is very hard for you to accept because _ knew. that is very hard for you to accept because it _ knew. that is very hard for you to accept because it will- to accept because it will fundamentally change the way you think of your own family? yeah, i lost my lithuanian identity, i really did, it is like i do not know when my identity is anymore. i grew up so proud of being lithuanian, and, there are a lot of beautiful things about lithuania but this is big. this is big. and i don't know. i do not like the denial, either. it is one thing that happened 80 years ago but now the denial is making a current, that is what is making current. it

making a current, that is what is making current.— is making current. it is an amazing _ is making current. it is an amazing story, _ is making current. it is an amazing story, a - is making current. it is an amazing story, a difficultl amazing story, a difficult story and i thank you for sharing it with us. thank you for being on hardtalk. hello there. under clear, starry skies, temperatures have once again been dropping. it means a cold, frosty start for most on friday morning but a mainly dry day ahead, with some spells of sunshine once any early fog has cleared. high pressure stilljust about in charge, but this frontal system will be trying to change things, with more cloud and some rain eventually into the far north—west, but most of us having a cold, frosty but bright start. fog patches most likely across eastern and southern counties of england. they should lift and clear. sunshine through the morning. more cloud, i think, developing for many inland

areas into the afternoon, and certainly thicker cloud as this weather front approaches western counties of northern ireland and north—west scotland. some rain splashing in here later and a strengthening freeze. but that breeze coming up from the south, bringing some mild conditions to northern ireland and scotland — 15 likely in northern scotland. compare that with just 8, 9 or 10 for some of these north sea coasts of england, the breeze still coming in off the chilly waters of the sea. now, as we head through friday night into saturday, england and wales will see clear skies again. that means a touch of frost and the odd fog patch, but we will see more cloud into northern ireland and certainly western scotland, and that means a milder start to saturday. and that cloud comes courtesy of this next frontal system trying to work its way in. so thickening cloud for parts of northern ireland and north—west scotland first thing. clearest of the skies across england and wales. that's where we'll see a touch of frost and the best of the sunshine of the day. although, actually, after that cloudy start, northern ireland and a good part of scotland should brighten up a little with some afternoon spells of sunshine. those temperatures,

11 to 15 degrees. it should feel a little bit less chilly at this stage for those north sea coasts of england. now, through saturday night and into sunday, we see frontal systems still wriggling around to the north—west of the uk. if anything, the veil of cloud associated with those weather fronts will move a little further south—eastwards, so sunday could be a cloudier day for some western parts of england and wales, certainly more cloud into northern ireland and scotland, with some rain into the far north—west. best of the sunshine further south and east and temperatures between 10 and 15 degrees. now, we will see some rain at times in north—western areas to start next week, but high pressure will build its way back in, so that means plenty of dry weather to come with some spells of sunshine.

this is bbc news. i'm victoria fritz with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. police in chicago release body camera footage which appears to show that a 13—year—old boy was not armed at the moment he was shot dead by an officer last month. an accelerating recovery. china publishes record economic growth figures for the first three months of the year. france, germany, and ukraine meet to discuss the escalating tensions in eastern ukraine. kyiv describes russia's decision to close part of the black sea as a gross violation of un rights. russia violation of un rights. has deployed a large amount russia has deployed a large amount of both personnel and

equipment on the russian