manchester united's premier league football match against liverpool has been postponed after angry fans invaded the old trafford stadium. hundreds of supporters swarmed in ahead of the game to call for the removal of the club's american owners, the glazers. several thousand more demonstrated outside. both the united states and britain have denied an iranian media report that an agreement has been reached with tehran on prisoner releases. the uk's foreign secretary dominic raab has said that tehran�*s treatment of the detained dual national nazanin zaghari—ratcliffe is tantamount to torture. dozens of cities across brazil have been forced to stop giving people a second dose of coronavirus vaccine because of severe shortages. the health minister has blamed his predecessor for allowing too many people to receive the first dose without having enough stocks for a follow—up.

now on bbc news, it's hardtalk, with another chance to watch stephen sackur�*s 2019 interview with us astronaut michael collins, who died last week. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. this year marks the 50th anniversary of one of the most remarkable feats of exploration in the history of humankind — the apollo 11 mission, which landed man on the moon. —— men on the moon. i'm in florida to meet one of the crewmembers. while neil armstrong and buzz aldrin were setting foot on the moon's surface, michael collins was piloting the command module which got them all home. so, 50 years on, how does he reflect on the significance of that extraordinary mission? michael collins, welcome to hardtalk.

thank you very much, stephen. this year marks the 50th anniversary of the historic apollo 11 mission, which you were a key part of. it means the spotlight is back on that mission and back on you. how do you feel about that? there were three of us, of course, on that flight — neil armstrong, buzz aldrin and i — three very lucky people. neil armstrong was born in 1930, buzz aldrin in 1930, mike collins, 1930. three quite different people. neil armstrong did not like the spotlight, buzz aldrin does like the spotlight, mike collins does not like —

with all due respect, sir — mike collins does not like the spotlight, either. and yet, here we are, and we're going to talk about what happened in 1969. do you talk about it with an enduring sense of pride? 0h, very much so. i mean, i was very proud of the job that the three of us did, getting us to and from the moon. that trip is a long and fragile daisy chain and the links are very fragile and we were able to keep them all intact and do ourjobs properly. but more than the three of us, there were almost 400,000 americans working on project apollo, and i thank them. they're the ones who don't get recognised.

i want to take you back actually before those amazing pictures of the footsteps on the moon. i want to take you back tojohn f kennedy pledging to invest whatever it took to get american men onto the moon in 1961, i guess? "and within the decade," he said, "we will make it happen". absolutely. now, did you, at the time when he said that, did you think that "that's me. i am going to do whatever i can to be part of that?" no, i did not. whenjohn f kennedy made that famous speech — a man on the moon by the end of the decade — i was struggling with equations of motion in the test pilot school at edwards air force base and the notion of flying to the moon was far beyond my kin. once i did join the space programme and become part of apollo, as the months went by, i thanked john f kennedy more and more because the stark

simplicity of his mandate was wonderfulfor us. we could quotejohn kennedy and we could get things done. we could accelerate people. we'd tell people "we've got to have this by the day the kennedy mandate, the simplicity of it, the stark beauty of it, really helped us along to the moon. did you feel that you were part of some sort of cold war because we should not forget that kennedy's commitment was in part, at least, driven by a preoccupation with what the soviets were doing, in the sense that the soviets may be getting ahead of america in the space race. this was america's determination to fight back. did you feel like a cold warrior, in a sense? yes, a little bit. we were acutely

aware of the ussr. we knew that we were in a competition with them. but somehow, that was behind a scrim, behind a screen. it wasn't part of our day—to—day life and i didn't feel like an active competitor. my problems were american problems, trying to get american problems solved. and although we knew we were in this competition, we — our — at least, my consciousness at least was 99% taken with non—soviet affairs or status. you were picked, ultimately, for this apollo 11 mission alongside, as you say, neil armstrong and buzz aldrin. you then spent time training with them, you did the mission with them, it was a feat of enormous ambition and daring, and ijust wonder what sort of bonds you forged with those two men? armstrong and aldrin? we formed some very strong bonds but actually, not really

during the flight of apollo 11 or even during the preparatory flight. the other flight. it was an around—the—world trip we took after the flight when i came to know neil better. during ourtraining — in the first place, we had — we had not been a back—up crew, as most primary crews had been, so we just got to know each other in the six months before the flight, which was a short period of time. further, we were split by function. neil and buzz were primarily off doing lunar module training and i was usually by myself doing command module training. so i — somewhere along the line, described us as amiable strangers. i did not mean that in a derogatory way but when we were very hard—working, when the day was over, we did not party, we did not drive colour—coordinated corvettes

or any of that sort of thing. we were — our noses were to the grindstone. we had both come off the gemini programme, so we did had some experience in space. gemini programme was a fascinating, bit a much smaller programme and it had more of a local appeal or a feeling about it — almost perhaps like an athletic contest of some sort. apollo 11, on the other hand, was heavy duty big business. we felt the weight of the world on our shoulders. we were being looked at and examined minutely. we were under a tight time schedule. and amiable strangers, we were, in a sense. but there is something intensely human about the roles you had, because armstrong and aldrin, as you said, were committed to the landing.

they were in the lunar module and they were going to be the guys — let us be honest — who were going to get the glory of making those footsteps on the moon. you were integral to the mission, but you were piloting the command module. you were absolutely crucial to getting them on to the moon and off the moon and back home, but you were not there and it seems to me it takes a particular kind of man to be committed to the mission and accept that you are not going to get the ultimate glory. did you see it that way? well, i certainly thought that i did not have the best seat of the three on apollo 11 but i can say in all honesty, i was thrilled with the seat i did have. i knew that i had somehow lucked into being one third of the team that was going to do this wonderful thing and my function suited me fine. i mean, yeah, sure,

i would have preferred to walk on the moon but that really seemed a trivial distinction at the time. i was very pleased with the — my responsibilities on the flight. people have said that yours, actually, was the loneliestjob that human being could ever have because while they went off, the two of them together in the module to make that landing, you were orbiting the moon in the command module. and for a substantial chunk of every orbit, you were completely isolated from all of humankind because you were on the far side of the moon, out of all contact with humanity. no human being has ever been more isolated than you were. chuckles. so what? so what did you make of that experience? what kind of impact did that have upon you? well, when i returned to earth, i was amazed because most

of the questions to me from the press centred on, "you were the loneliest man in the whole lonely orbit around the lonely planet on a lonely evening" and i felt, on the other hand, quite comfortable in my happy little home inside the command module columbia. i had been flying aeroplanes by myself for a number of years so the fact that i was aloft by myself was not anything new. i was very comfortable. and yet, there was an awful responsibility on your shoulders because you were the guy who had to make sure that aldrin and armstrong got back to the spacecraft that was going to get you all home. and you didn't know whether the lunar module would really work when it left the moon's surface. you did not know if armstrong and aldrin would make it back to you. and ijust wonder if, in your mind, you had a plan for what you'd do if things went wrong?

well first, you have hit upon the part of the flight that i worried about the most, which — i thought that neil and buzz would go on down and have a successful landing, and a lot of our equipment was duplicated, but when it came to their return to me, they had one engine, one engine bell, one combustion chamber and that had to work perfectly to lift them up, back to my orbit. i had around my neck an 8x10 notebook which had in it 18 different possibilities for how we would bring those two vehicles back together. if everything went according to textbook, it was fairly simple and something that we had practised over and over in the simulator. did you ever think what it would mean for you if you had to return to earth without them? sure i did. but only in the most abbreviated form.

i mean, first, i was not going to commit suicide. i was coming home by myself, i would be a marked man for the rest of my life — i knew that. and i did not dwell on that, but i was quite aware of that fact. did you, as other astronauts have discussed — and of course, back in 1969, there were very few men who had had that experience that you were having of seeing our blue planet from space — did you find it changed your view of humanity, of our place in the universe? yes, i believe it did. if there is any part of the flight of apollo 11 that sticks in my memory, it is the memory of a little, tiny thing that you could obscure with your thumbnail. blue and white — the white of clouds, the blue of the ocean. just a trace of land. gorgeous, very shiny, bright background,

totally black. i will remember that all my life. and it leads one to consider, well, is it so pretty? is it so quiet? is it so pristine? for some reason, the word "fragile" came up out of the murk somehow. i don't know how but i thought, "god, it is a fragile little thing, isn't it?" in the 50 years since you had that special view of our planet, do you think we human beings have respected and understood that fragility? no. no, i don't think so. when we flew to the moon, the population of the earth was about 2 billion and it is sneaking up now on 8 billion and that growth is willy—nilly, without any consideration for the support that the additional number of people requires from the resources of the earth.

no, i don't think we ever consider that. let me ask you, if i may, a personal question about the return to earth. perhaps you were, at that time in 1969, the three most famous men on the planet. you had achieved something that men, that mankind have dreamt about for so long and you had to live with it. and yet afterwards it cannot have been easy to handle both the adulation and the intense focus and spotlight upon you. buzz aldrin has been open about the difficulties he had in coming to terms with it. he said, "i had been to the moon. i had travelled around, but what on earth was i going to do next?" did you have a feeling like that as well? not really, i bailed out of the space programme before apollo was over. i felt that the first lunar landing had fundamentally done whatjohn f kennedy had asked us to do.

i went on to do otherjobs, next i was assistant secretary of state, later i was director of the national air and space museum. let me interrupt, because both of those extremely important jobs with a great deal of responsibility, but if you had stayed, i think most people who know nasa well think there is little doubt that you could have commanded your own apollo mission, you may well have stood a chance in the years that came to have walked on the moon yourself, and you walked away from that possibility. why? 0h, a whole host of reasons, some of them professional, some of them personal. i think the personal ones that probably weighed more heavily on me than the professional ones. my wife pat had put up with my ridiculous career, being a jet fighter pilot, a test pilot, this loony astronaut thing, whatever it was, and that required long hours, a lot of time away

from home, and the time away from home frequently was, it was stuffed into a simulator and i was sick and tired of being stuffed into a simulator. and i felt that i had upheld my end of the bargain with nasa, i did not feel like i owed nasa anything, nor did they owe me anything. but any regrets at all that you did not pursue that opportunity? sure, sure, but, you know, my luck had ended and this was the time for it and yeah, sure, but did i look back and when my good, good friend, gene cernan stepped out onto the lunar surface, did i feel a sense of green envy? no. did you think, that could have been me?

i maybe thought that, but i wasn't green with envy or anything like that. it was not a strong feeling, no. i made my decision, i was happy with my decision, i was now living in washington, dc with a decentjob, my wife, my family situation was good, so i had no cause for any great regret. as you say, you, for a while, were the director of the air and space museum. you stayed very closely tied to the world of space exploration, you have watched nasa at close quarters. do you think after the apollo programme was wound up, do you think nasa, in a sense, lost its way? the development of the space shuttle, those missions to the space station, space lab, they seemed to lose momentum with the notion of pushing forward with manned exploration?

do you think that they made a big mistake? i don't think nasa lost its way, so much as nasa lost its money, and there's an important distinction there. i think nasa sort of wobbled along, they were not quite sure what to do after apollo. they did a space station, an abbreviated form of one, and then they created the shuttle. i think those were important and useful steps, they weren't as dramatic, they didn't excite the american people and interest in the space programme decreased, but i think that was perhaps inevitable after apollo was over. let's talk about mars. you have always been a passionate advocate of the need for humans to push a mission to mars, but there are so many challenges involved in a mars mission. it would take so long, at least two years. do you see a commitment, not least among america's

politicians, to invest what it would need to get human beings to mars? the financing of space ventures has changed somewhat in that it is not only a taxed government project, mars, but some private money is being thrown in by people such as elon musk. are you comfortable with that? with the notion that america's richest billionaires, and you mentioned elon musk, we could talk aboutjeff bezos as well, are you comfortable with a sort of climate in space exploration where they seem more committed to pushing the boundaries, the frontiers than the us government? no, well, i think the us government should welcome their money in, sure. if they want to throw in $1 billion here and $1 trillion here, well, bless them. i don't see that there's anything wrong with having... once you are in a spacecraft, you are not sure who paid for the thing that you are up

in, the fact is that you are there, that you are adding to the possible reality of a trip to mars a little bit sooner than if you relied solely on appropriated funds. isn't the truth, though, that if we, the human species, are serious about the next phase of space exploration, which will be mindbogglingly expensive and extraordinarily technologically challenging, it can only happen if there's collaboration between all of the biggest powers, that is the united states, china and russia? i think we have to find a way to co—operate. i remember so vividly the trip that the three of us took after the flight of apollo the 11, and we were surprised that everywhere we went, every city we visited, we were not greeted with oh well, you americans finally did it, we were greeted with we did it, we, humanity, we human beings have put ourselves, our talents together, and we have done it.

and i think that we have to build on that spirit, which was ephemeral. but xijinping, the president of china, not so long ago talked about china's space stream. we sawjust a few months ago, the chinese with a remarkably detailed, technical achievement, putting a rover on the other side of the moon, something that hadn't been done before. i mean, there are people in washington, dc extremely nervous about chinese intentions in space. do you think they've got a point? well, the chinese, i think, certainly pose a problem. i think the fact that they landed on the back side of the moon is not an extraordinary technological achievement, but some of the things that they may learn there will be extraordinary. some of the minerals, for example, that can be mined from the backside and brought back will be very, very valuable and i think... so, we in the united states, have to worry more about china

as a competitor. how we overcome that, i don't know. i don't think we do it by increased tariffs, i think we have to somehow get the chinese and the russians, who inhabit this little, tiny, fragile, little planet, to join with us in friendly, not hostile space ventures. and when history books are going to be written, maybe centuries from now, when we look back at the arc of human achievement over a very long time span, where do you think landing on the moon, putting men on the moon, and seeing them walk on the moon will sit in terms of milestones achieved by our species?

i think two flights were very important, apollo 8 and apollo 11. apollo 8, which did not land on the moon but was the first human vehicle to exceed escape velocity, it was very important, but perhaps as important as apollo 11. apollo 8 was about leaving, apollo 11 was about arriving. 100 years from now, i'm not sure which historians would be prevalent in an argument, whether it is more important that we left or more important that we arrived. i think both of those were monumental achievements, and they will be remembered as we proceed towards what i hope is mars, and if we can do, we can leave one and arrive in another, i think we can do the same thing. although i may contradict

myself and say that i think the first flight to mars may be intentionally a one—way flight, so it would be leaving only and not leaving and arriving. mike collins, i thank you very much for being on hardtalk. it's been a pleasure talking to you. thank you. thank you, stephen, bbc is my favourite. good morning. weather across the uk is on the change. yes, it's turning increasingly wet and windy this bank holiday monday, and then that's going to be replaced by a case

of sunny spells and blustery showers. and all the time, the temperatures disappointing — cold for early may. so the culprit arrives through the night. it's going to bring wet and windy weather in from the west, and that rain is going to continue to track its way steadily eastwards. now, ahead of it, quite a lot of cloud around so it will be a frost—free start to monday — something we've not seen for quite some time — but the cloud, the wind and the rain's on its way, moving out of northern ireland into southern scotland, northern england and parts of wales during the morning, probably not arriving into london and east anglia until the end of the afternoon and maybe not arriving at all in the far north of scotland. it's going to be windy for all — gusts widely in excess of aomph, maybe in excess of 60mph on exposed south—west coasts, and that's going to make it feel pretty cool. it may well be one of the coldest early may bank holidays on record. now, that low pressure will drift its way steadily the wind direction�*s still coming from a north—easterly.

gales on exposed east coasts driving in some showers and the showers turning increasingly wintry to higher ground in scotland, northern england and north wales. top temperatures by the middle of tuesday afternoon between 6 and 13 celsius. move out of tuesday into wednesday, we've still got that cold air in place. the isobars are likely to open up, so that could mean we could start off early wednesday with a light frost around — something very unusual for the first week of may. so potentially a frosty start, a dry one with some sunshine around for many. won't be long before we see further showers, particularly across north—east scotland and north—east england. west is best for sunshine but not necessarily for warmth — we should be seeing temperatures across southern england of around 16 degrees, at least, at this time of year. thursday, we keep the risk of some showers going, but friday will be a quieter day, drier and perhaps a little warmer. however, as we head into next weekend, there is another significant low pressure that's likely to push its way in from the south—west, bringing yet more wet and windy weather, but it may well turn

things a touch milder by the end of the weekend.

no, i don't think we ever consider that.

this is bbc news. i'm samantha simmonds with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. protesting manchester united fans, angry with the club's american owners, invade the pitch, forcing the game against liverpool to be called off. the club has just been bled dry by the glazers. it's a cash cow. but for us, it is the manchester united football club, and we love it. ..to not communicate with the fans for 16 years and this leads to this kind of anger we've seen on this level. both the us and uk deny iranian tv reports that they've agreed prisoner release deals with tehran. as india records more than 300,000 new coronavirus cases for a 12th successive day, australia's temporary ban on travel from india begins. ahead of a g7 meeting in london, us secretary

of state antony blinken accuses china of acting more