this is bbc news. the headlines. one of world's richest couples, billand melinda gates have announced that they will divorce after 27 years of marriage. their charitable foundation has spent billions of fighting causes such as infectious diseases. they said they will continue to work together. the european union outlined plans to significantly ease travel restrictions in time for summer under the proposals, anyone who has received their final dose of an eu approved vaccine at least two weeks beforehand will be permitted to travel. a landmark trial has started in the us against apple, accusing the text giant of abusing market dominance. epic games that makes fortnite says that game and app developers have no choice but to use the app store

where they are charged large fees and transactions. now on bbc news, hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. belly international headlines these days america's went polymer bay prison is still operational —— guantanamo bay. a0 inmates are left. most have been held for nearly two decades without being charged or tried. for 1a years, my bet —— my guest today, mohamedou 0uld slahi, was held there, having been identified as a high—value al-qaeda terrorist. he was eventually released without charge and is now a film, mauritania and, has been released, telling his remarkable story. what is the guantanamo legacy.

mohamedou 0uld slahi, welcome to hardtalk. mohamedou 0uld slahi, welcome to hardtalk— to hardtalk. thank you very much, stephen, _ to hardtalk. thank you very much, stephen, for - to hardtalk. thank you very much, stephen, for having l to hardtalk. thank you very l much, stephen, for having me to hardtalk. thank you very - much, stephen, for having me on your programme. find much, stephen, for having me on your programme-— your programme. and i salute our your programme. and i salute your audience. _ your programme. and i salute your audience. well, - your programme. and i salute your audience. well, it - your programme. and i salute your audience. well, it is - your programme. and i salute your audience. well, it is a . your audience. well, it is a pleasure to have you on our programme. let's begin with how it feels to have made about your story in a sense have your name become recognised around the world years after you were finally released from guantanamo bay when perhaps your story should have been better known to the world that almost nobody had heard your

name at all. does it feel weird that your story is another subject a film?— subject a film? i'm still t in: subject a film? i'm still trying to _ subject a film? i'm still trying to digester- subject a film? i'm still trying to digester but i subject a film? i'm still| trying to digester but in subject a film? i'm still l trying to digester but in a positive way because this whole operation, you know, when i was kidnapped, was conducted in total darkness. no—one should know anything about this abduction, no—one should know anything about torture, no—one should know anything about disappearance and this rendition from senegal to mauritania, tojordan, to mauritania, to jordan, to guantanamo. mauritania, tojordan, to guantanamo. so i am happy now that the world is knowing this, the story. in that the world is knowing this, the sto . . ., , that the world is knowing this, the story-— the story. in the course of this interview, _ the story. in the course of this interview, we - the story. in the course of this interview, we will. the story. in the course of| this interview, we will talk the story. in the course of. this interview, we will talk in detail about what happened to you in guantanamo. but actually, before we begin that, ijust actually, before we begin that, i just want to ask you today that as we see you sitting there in mauritania, do the

memories of your 1a years and two months in guantanamo bay, do they still haunt you? are they still alive in your mind? because it is more than four years now since you've been released. years now since you've been released-— released. that is correct, stephen- _ released. that is correct, stephen. more _ released. that is correct, stephen. more than - released. that is correct, stephen. more than 14 i released. that is correct, . stephen. more than 14 years released. that is correct, - stephen. more than 14 years in stephen. more than 1a years in guantanamo bay and nine months outside guantanamo bay in a secret prison, so it is almost 15 years after 9/11. and of course, i still suffer. 15 years after 9/11. and of course, istill suffer. when course, i still suffer. when i was tortured, i was physically tortured and mentally abused for a very long time, and to this day, there are certain triggers that send me right away to the hospital and ijust become like, you know, very

sick, and they take me to the hospitalfor sick, and they take me to the hospital for several days, when one of these triggers come. this is not easy. i was tortured like my ribs were broken and i lost my gallbladder, and to this day i sufferfrom gallbladder, and to this day i suffer from that. gallbladder, and to this day i sufferfrom that. no suffer from that. no country accepts, including the uk, to receive me, to for medical assistance. receive me, to for medical assistance-— receive me, to for medical assistance. ., , ., ., assistance. you use that word we became — assistance. you use that word we became familiar _ assistance. you use that word we became familiar with, - we became familiar with, rendition, to describe the way you pick up and you were sent through third countries eventually to jordan and then on to eventually tojordan and then on to guantanamo bay eventually to jordan and then on to guantanamo bay where of course you were incarcerated. that happened to you for a reason, mohamedou, it happened because the united states and its allies had intelligence that you were a member of al-qaeda and that you are an important figure in al-qaeda's international network, having contacts with other al-qaeda

operatives, first in canada and also in germany, in berlin. there was evidence. can you confirm to me that going back to your late teenage years and early 20s, you were a sworn member of al-qaeda. 50. early 20s, you were a sworn member of al-qaeda. so, this all started _ member of al-qaeda. so, this all started in _ member of al-qaeda. so, this all started in late _ member of al-qaeda. so, this all started in late 98 - member of al-qaeda. so, this all started in late 98 or- member of al-qaeda. so, this all started in late 98 or early l all started in late 98 or early 99 when i received a very harmless phone call from my cousin. it was just a family call. he wanted me to send some money to his father who was sick and they needed the money. and then he lived in sudan. and this was very mundane, the phone call was in the vision of united states, i presume, and

there is nothing to it, apart from what i am telling you. however, there was a problem. this call was conducted from a phone that belonged to some of the lamb and himself. —— are some of bin laden himself. he lived in sudan. i have to mention that the united states found out that my cousin was not involved in the 9/11 attack. �* ., ., attack. i'm not here to interrogate _ attack. i'm not here to interrogate you, - attack. i'm not here to interrogate you, god l attack. i'm not here to - interrogate you, god forbid, you have had plenty of that in your life. ijust want you have had plenty of that in your life. i just want our audience to be clear that they were some, let's be honest, some pretty in—store ordinary connections between you and men that you know became active terrorist in al-qaeda. just to name one, ramsey bin al—shib. you had connections to him in germany. t

you had connections to him in germany-— you had connections to him in german . ., �* ~ ., germany. i don't know him. he came once _ germany. i don't know him. he came once to — germany. i don't know him. he came once to my _ germany. i don't know him. he came once to my house - germany. i don't know him. he came once to my house to - germany. i don't know him. he came once to my house to visitj came once to my house to visit a friend. those are all the connections. there are no connections. there are no connections whatsoever with any type of organised crime is because i don't want, i don't believe in the word terrorism because it is used to oppress politically descend in my part of the world and it is abuse to collectively punish innocent people. if you say a murderer, everybody would understand and there is evidence but if you say a terrorist, you can do everything you want with no accountability whatsoever. mohamedou, you were known as prisoner 760 at guantanamo. you were subject to enhanced interrogation techniques which were signed off by the defence secretary donald rumsfeld himself. you've already used the word torture to me, what were the most difficult

experiences you went through? so, one day, i remember it is around noon but i don't think it said noon. these middle—aged men by the name of richard, lieutenant richfield commie he came to me in my interrogation room and i was interrogated by a sergeant, the one you saw in the movie who was crying, and he told me that the united states of america decided to kidnap my mother and put her in a men's only provision, insinuating that she will be raped —— a men's only prison. he said she will remain in that prison until i confess to my quote unquote crimes. at that

point i knew there was nothing left for me to lose because the last time i saw my mother is when those police, those cops, in plain clothes, came to my house and led me outside the house and i could see my mother in the rearview mirror braying, holding the prayer beads —— praying. she disappeared as we turned to the right after about 150 metres, and that's it, my mother disappeared. now i know she disappeared for ever, she never got her day in court, she never got her day in court, she never got her day in court, she never got to defend her son, she never got to clear the name of her son. at that point, i wasn't doing well when they came to me. i went through, up to that point, 70 days of sleep a privation, no sleep. and sexual assault, multiple times.

i was being interrogated 2a—7. i was being interrogated 2a—7. i had been exposed to the cold room. i told them i'm dying. i was pleading with them, trying to negotiate my way out of torture. what i didn't know, that some of my friends died in the cold room. my friend didn't get a chance to speak to sivan in hardtalk. —— stephen. you in hardtalk. -- stephen. you have outlined _ in hardtalk. -- stephen. you have outlined some _ in hardtalk. -- stephen. you have outlined some of - in hardtalk. —— stephen. you have outlined some of them, we know it involved waterboarding, we know it involved beating, we know it involved sleep deprivation, and as you've said, you've talked about actual abuse as well, as well as the psychological torture involving threats to your mother. you cracked, mohamedou, in the end, and you decided the way to stop this was to confess. are you now saying that everything you told

investigators about your involvement with jihad is was a complete fabrication? ha. involvement with jihad is was a complete fabrication? no. that was true- _ complete fabrication? no. that was true. for _ complete fabrication? no. that was true. for a _ complete fabrication? no. that was true. for a buried - complete fabrication? no. that was true. for a buried brief- was true. for a buried brief period —— for a very brief period. and the united kingdom, germany, where i live, and the united kingdom, were on my side. the first interrogator interrogated me in guantanamo bay, he told me i was in afghanistan and he completely, he knows that this was all supported by the united states of america. it is not like i went with a face part —— fake passport trying to cross border, i went to the mujahideen. it was not like i prayed in mosques in germany and that i know other muslims.

this was a concerted war against young arabs and muslims from around the world. no, i have no doubt about it. it is shameful that the countries who are the most abusers —— committed the most abusers are arabs and muslims in this so—called war on terror. a not cutting them any slack, by the way. i cutting them any slack, by the wa . ., ., , , way. i want to stick with this idea of what _ way. i want to stick with this idea of what happened - way. i want to stick with this idea of what happened in - way. i want to stick with this | idea of what happened in your head after this, as you put it, this torture over many, many months. you made a confession but you also betrayed other individuals. you implicated others and ijust individuals. you implicated others and i just wonder, individuals. you implicated others and ijust wonder, how guilty you feel about what you did at that point when you talked of others and their involvement.—

talked of others and their involvement. , , involvement. very, very, i feel very bad _ involvement. very, very, i feel very bad about _ involvement. very, very, i feel very bad about it. _ involvement. very, very, i feel very bad about it. stephen, - involvement. very, very, i feel very bad about it. stephen, i i very bad about it. stephen, i tell you, i think this was calmer, because when they came to me and they told me, the interrogator, the fbi, told me that ramsey testified that i helped him go to afghanistan and i don't know the guy let alone helping him. and i was like so upset with him, i said how could he, how could they lie about it? other detainees, they said mohamedou, you are crazy. this guy was tortured so badly, we couldn't sleep hearing him crying all night long and after a couple of months i was in the same situation and everyone there asked me about, i would say he is a terrorist, he is al-qaeda and i know exactly the type of people they want me because... to name, and ijust named my

friends, my closest friends. the first thing i do when i met my lawyer, i told the first thing i do when i met my lawyer, itold her, i named ahmed and he had nothing to do with anything. the first thing i told her to do is go to her lawyers as they were in the prison but i am so happy they are free people and at least left end, he never even went to prison. everybody knows that this is torture. aus a usjudge ruled that the coercive treatment inflicted on you and tainted the evidence so badly that it could not support a successful criminal prosecution. that was in 2010 but you were not released until

autumn 2016 and i wonder, by the time you finally got out, were you almost scared of the outside world? you had been habituated to one tanimoto for so long, what was it like to contemplate your own freedom? contemplate your own freedom ? it is like if someone comes to you today and tells you that you today and tells you that you are going to mars, another planet and i remember when the captain came to me and stuck her head through the whole where they give you food and she was smiling the most beautiful smile and said i was going home. iwanted beautiful smile and said i was going home. i wanted to comment about the decision to release me so i was intimidated and

threatened not to go to court and they told me that even if i went to court they would not let me go. this is disrespectful of the rule of law because one time obey was designed to circumvent the law because the executive power should not be able to arrest people and put them in a prison and sentence them without proper procedure. that is all i am saying. these exceptions that african and middle eastern people are an exception to human rightand people are an exception to human right and only europeans and americans are the ones who enjoy human rights that is fascism, actually. human beings should enjoy full human rights, access to a lawyer, to adjudge into proper procedure. is all i

am calling for and i have testimony that the suspicion of the government is not enough to convict someone because i was 100% innocent. mohamedou, given the story of — 100% innocent. mohamedou, given the story of yours _ 100% innocent. mohamedou, given the story of yours and _ 100% innocent. mohamedou, given the story of yours and what - 100% innocent. mohamedou, given the story of yours and what has - the story of yours and what has happened to you, how much anger and desire for some sort of revenge do you have in your heart and soul today? absolutely none whatsoever. when i spent eight months in the prison of darkness in jordan, the cia came to me. i did not know then it was the cia. they started to cut open my clothes with scissors. this was the first time i felt something like that. i was blindfolded and wearing earmuffs and they put me in darkness. and then it dawned on me, i would go to an american

prison and die forgotten. what i regretted was not being nice enough to the people around me. i regretted every bad word and every bad comment i made about people and i promised and took it upon myself to be nice if i had a chance to go back. i did not forget that i did not have a lot of money or did not marry beautiful women, a lot of money or did not marry beautifulwomen, et a lot of money or did not marry beautiful women, et cetera all that mattered to me at that moment is to be nice to people and this is what is going to happen when i am about to dietetic that is why i for give everybody and everyone and i am not asking anything and i invited them to come and visit me so i could show them around and some of them did accept my invitation. a former god, steve wood came to me twice, i took

into the desert to stay with me at home, we drank tea together, we did run down, et cetera. it would be hypocriticalfor me we did run down, et cetera. it would be hypocritical for me to call for human rights, for the rule of law, for reconciliation and not to believe for myself and not to believe for myself and those who were visited pain upon me. and those who were visited pain u on me. ,, ., and those who were visited pain uon me. , .,, and those who were visited pain uon me. , , ., ., upon me. some people around the world may be _ upon me. some people around the world may be amazed _ upon me. some people around the world may be amazed to _ upon me. some people around the world may be amazed to learn - world may be amazed to learn that actually in the last few years you have married an american woman and have a son who, of course, is therefore both mauritania and american. that is a pretty extraordinary thing that you have done, given your experience of the united states of america.— your experience of the united states of america. when people tell me that _ states of america. when people tell me that i _ states of america. when people tell me that i say _ states of america. when people tell me that i say course - states of america. when people tell me that i say course i - tell me that i say course i need to marry an american because i need a witness next time they come for me. but joking aside, we are human

beings. dividing us between muslim, christian, westerner, african, middle eastern, i do not accept that. i have multiple identities. i am not just an african or an arab or muslim. i am also open—minded, liberal minded person and i have so many shared values with america and i love the american people. i think they are decent people. i think they are decent --eole. �* ., people. i think they are decent --eole. �* . ., people. i think they are decent --eole. �* ., ., , people. and i have no beef with american static _ people. and i have no beef with american static let _ people. and i have no beef with american static let me - people. and i have no beef with american static let me ask- people. and i have no beef with american static let me ask you | american static let me ask you this than. in the course of our conversation you have said that, yes, iwent conversation you have said that, yes, i went to afghanistan and believed in the concept ofjihad. tommy today what is your attitude to your religion and to those within your religion who still espouse this extreme jihad assist ideology. {iii this extreme 'ihad assist ideology.—

ideology. of course i completely - ideology. of course i completely condemn ideology. of course i _ completely condemn extremism, whether it comes from muslims, jewish people, hindu people. do not agree with extremism in any shape orform. today not agree with extremism in any shape or form. today i want democracy unlawful all, all human beings, including in mauritania. when i was a teenager i lived in a military that ownership, you know, where people could not talk, we could not even talk. if you talk you would go to prison. you risked your freedom. would go to prison. you risked yourfreedom. i did not know how to break free and there was so much propaganda about the way that afghanis had taken up arms and risen up against the regime and i was infatuated by the idea. absolutely. and i do not regret that at all. i say this. but today i know that violence is not the way. i

believe in peaceful revolutions, in peaceful change. and at the same time, i feel that people who espouse extremist ideology do have a place in open society where they can express themselves and they can express themselves and they should not be imprisoned just because they want sure raya law. you can only put people in prison if they commit violence. 0ne people in prison if they commit violence. one last question about the future of one time obey. you and otherformer inmates have written to presidentjoe biden asking him to close one time obey. that was a promise made by borwick 0bama but he could not deliver. you wantjoe biden to deliver the complete closure of one tommo what then should happen to inmates such as coloured sheikh mohammed who the americans are absolutely convinced, based on they say

overwhelming evidence that he was a key architect of the 9/11 attack and other attacks as well. if you want closed, what should happen to people like coloured shaikh mohammed? this is a very good question. first, guantanamo bay must be closed and i do believe that president biden will close one time obey because i believe in him. i think he is a good guy to people like mohammed and anyone who the government thinks were involved in this atrocious attack must be brought to trial. an open trial with proper defence. and it is up to thejudge and jury to proper defence. and it is up to the judge and jury to convict them, not up to me or stephen or the cia or fbi. them, not up to me or stephen or the cm or fbi.— or the cia or fbi. mohamedou 0uld slahi, — 0uld slahi, i think you very much indeed forjoining me from

mauritania. thank you.— mauritania. thank you. thank ou, mauritania. thank you. thank you. stephen _ mauritania. thank you. thank you, stephen for— mauritania. thank you. thank you, stephen for having - mauritania. thank you. thank you, stephen for having me. | hello. when it comes to bank holiday weather, our expectations are normally low, but even they were undercut by what just happened. up to two inches of rain in the wettest parts of scotland, but very few avoided a spell of lashing rain. a wind gust over 90mph off the south coast of england. even where the rain held off until late in the day, the temperature only reached 1a celsius, and that's the lowest high temperature the uk has had on the early may bank holiday,

so that makes it the coldest early may bank holiday on record. it's not going to feel any warmer during tuesday. it'll still be windy, though not quite as windy, and there'll be showers around as the area of low pressure that did for the bank holiday weather pulls away into the north sea. the flow of air behind that, though, coming down from the north, that means temperatures below average for the time of year, feeling colder in the wind and the showers around of which there will be plenty from the word go though not much in the way of frost to start the day. that is going to change, though, as we go through the week ahead, so back to a risk of overnight frost. gales close to these north sea coasts where it's been windiest overnight in southern england and south wales. won't be as windy by the time we get to mid—morning. there are areas with showers moving south, perhaps some longer spells of rain in parts of northern england. brightening up later in north—east scotland. not many showers in southern england and south wales. the winds at their strongest along the north sea coasts and across parts of eastern england. very gusty, but again easing later. catch a shower, hail, thunder — with temperatures like this, it'll be wintry over the hills in scotland. some places will not get into double figures. now, on through tuesday evening and night, some showers

continue to feed south. it's where it gets clearest overnight — northern england and parts of scotland — we're going to have frost going into wednesday morning, so it will be a cold start. and wednesday will be a day of sunshine and showers. again, there will be a wintry flavour to these showers in places with hail and some snow on the higher hills in scotland, northern england, perhaps into wales as well. it's not going to feel any warmer. we're back to the risk of overnight frost. a similar picture on thursday — further showers, wintry on hills moving south and maybe a spell of rain flirting with the south coast of england, so we're going to keep a close eye on that. friday will be another chilly day of sunshine and showers and going into the weekend, here comes another area of low pressure. more wind and rain, though as the wind changes direction to a southerly, it may turn much warmerfor a time, especially in parts of england.

this is bbc news. i'm sally bundock with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. the billionaire philanthropists bill and melinda gates have announced they are to divorce after 27 years of marriage. eu officials start discussions on new rules to make it easier to welcome back travellers to the block thousands struggle to afford food in the philippines — as a long and hard coronavirus lockdown takes its toll. the tech giant apple is accused of stifling competition by the makers of the fortnite game franchise in a landmark trial. and — we look at the pun—tastic challenge that's capturing the hearts and minds of thousands of businesses.