to ask in questions we need to ask in scotland~ _ questions we need to ask in scotland. we have significant problems, for instance, with our education — problems, for instance, with our education system here, but because the opposition is so weak and because — the opposition is so weak and because the two main parties, the tories _ because the two main parties, the tories and — because the two main parties, the tories and snp, but want to talk about_ tories and snp, but want to talk about the — tories and snp, but want to talk about the independence and not much else, we _ about the independence and not much else, we get squeezed out of the bay, _ else, we get squeezed out of the bay, not — else, we get squeezed out of the bay, not with any debate on those things. _ bay, not with any debate on those things. and — bay, not with any debate on those things, and the government has a free pass — things, and the government has a free pass at this election because no one _ free pass at this election because no one is— free pass at this election because no one is trying to be first ministen _ no one is trying to be first minister. so there's no question scotland — minister. so there's no question scotland needs to get over the constitutional question as soon as they possibly can so we can normalise as a country and move on to normat— normalise as a country and move on to normal issues like other countries _ to normal issues like other countries discussed.- to normal issues like other countries discussed. �* . countries discussed. 0k, we'll leave it there. thank _ countries discussed. 0k, we'll leave it there. thank you _ countries discussed. 0k, we'll leave it there. thank you both _ countries discussed. 0k, we'll leave it there. thank you both very - countries discussed. 0k, we'll leave it there. thank you both very much l it there. thank you both very much indeed. a final word now from our political correspondent, nick eardley. the debate is going to start soon. is there anything that could trip nicola sturgeon up, not necessarily in terms of getting an outright majority because that's still up in the air, but from being the leading

party, the one with the most seats? one of the mums of this campaign came in one of the previous televised debates were nicola sturgeon admitted her party taken its eye off the ball in government when it came to propose it was of —— key moments of this campaign. no one really is pretending anyone apart from the snp is going to win this election, most of the other parties focus their fire on trying to take some of the shine off the snp and trying to take it towards their party, so absolutely, i suspect ms sturgeon probably thinks these debates are particularly difficult for her. but everybody has a job to do tonight, and it's notjust about getting those core messages over. it's about enthusing your party, so nicola sturgeon has to get independence supporters and others to come out and vote for her on thursday, labour have to persuade people to vote for them on the reading list, for the greens and the lib dems this really matters to them for getting their message across.

nick, thank you. debate is about to start in the next couple of minutes on bbc news, it's time tojoin start in the next couple of minutes on bbc news, it's time to join the scotland leaders debate from edinburgh. two days until the polling stations open, two days to make up your mind in an election where there is still a great deal to play for, and tonight the final debate between the leaders of the five largest parties at holyrood, what do they need to do to get your vote? with me tonight, nicola sturgeon, leader of the scottish national party, and first minister since

2014. elected as leader of the scottish conservatives less than a year ago, an mp at westminster, douglas ross. anas sarwar, as of two months ago, the new leader of the scottish labour party, the attempt since devolution. co—leader of the scottish grains since 2008, patrick harvie. and marking ten years this month as leader of the scottish liberal democrats, willie rennie. hello and a warm welcome to our debate and thank you to all the leaders for being here at this important moment in this election campaign. we have all got a bit of energy left to see us through the next 70 minutes. i will be asking the questions, based on feedback from members of the bbc scotland audience panel who have told us the issues they would most like to hear about. we would like the leaders to

engage in a respectful debate and that means not talking over one another. at the outset can we all agree on that, promise?- another. at the outset can we all agree on that, promise? yes. i'm auoin to agree on that, promise? yes. i'm going to hold _ agree on that, promise? yes. i'm going to hold you _ agree on that, promise? yes. i'm going to hold you to _ agree on that, promise? jazz i'm going to hold you to that. of course, there are other parties contesting this election, and some of the leaders from those parties were interviewed on the campaign programme on this channel at seven o'clock this evening. now it is the turn of the main holyrood parties so let's get started. the first topic is lockdown easing as we come out of the pandemic, douglas ross, should people be able to go abroad on holiday from the 17th of may? that is a decision _ holiday from the 17th of may? that is a decision which _ holiday from the 17th of may? hat is a decision which will be taken and there are reports at the moment, and there are reports at the moment, and i spoke to the uk transport sector are grant shapps yesterday and tomorrow he is chairing the g7 transport minister is discussing this issue. i do think people are understandably concerned about taking the virus back into scotland

and the uk, because we have got on top of the virus now and we are through the health pandemic, the success of the vaccination role that has been so positive and we have got more hope and optimism and what i would be saying is, let's stay in scotland and lets look at what we have got here on our own shores and holiday at home in scotland. it the holiday at home in scotland. if the uk government _ holiday at home in scotland. if the uk government decides _ holiday at home in scotland. if the uk government decides it - holiday at home in scotland. if the uk government decides it is - holiday at home in scotland. if the uk government decides it is safe to travel to certain countries, on holiday, that would be fine by them, would it be fine by you? yes. holiday, that would be fine by them, would it be fine by you?— would it be fine by you? yes, we have not would it be fine by you? yes, we have got to _ would it be fine by you? yes, we have got to look _ would it be fine by you? yes, we have got to look at _ would it be fine by you? yes, we have got to look at what - would it be fine by you? yes, we have got to look at what the - would it be fine by you? yes, we i have got to look at what the travel industry have been asking for for a long time and they have not had the support during the pandemic they were looking for and the airports are also looking to get back to that type of travel but we have to be cautious because we don't want to see mutations of the virus coming back into scotland when we have been so successful at getting on top of the virus. . so successful at getting on top of the virus. , . ~ ., . the virus. there is talk of a traffic light _ the virus. there is talk of a traffic light system, - the virus. there is talk of a traffic light system, if - the virus. there is talk of a l traffic light system, if certain countries were green for go in the eyes of the uk government, patrick harvie, would that be ok with you? i harvie, would that be ok with you? i worry we will get back to the

situation _ worry we will get back to the situation we had last summer where the uk _ situation we had last summer where the uk government was maybe listening — the uk government was maybe listening more to the lobbyists and there _ listening more to the lobbyists and there was— listening more to the lobbyists and there was a bit more caution in scotland — there was a bit more caution in scotland but both were under pressure _ scotland but both were under pressure to have a united four nations— pressure to have a united four nations approach. we know that a great _ nations approach. we know that a great deal— nations approach. we know that a great deal of the reason why we had a second _ great deal of the reason why we had a second wave was importation of the new cases. _ a second wave was importation of the new cases, and while the world is still waiting to be vaccinated and most _ still waiting to be vaccinated and most countries are not seeing that at the _ most countries are not seeing that at the same scale and pace as we are here in— at the same scale and pace as we are here in scotland, there is still going — here in scotland, there is still going to — here in scotland, there is still going to be the risk that we import new cases. — going to be the risk that we import new cases, potentially more dangerous variants and see a third way. _ dangerous variants and see a third way. so _ dangerous variants and see a third way. so if— dangerous variants and see a third way, so if we want to ease the restrictions at home and see more of our lives _ restrictions at home and see more of our lives get — restrictions at home and see more of our lives get back to normal, my suspicion — our lives get back to normal, my suspicion is _ our lives get back to normal, my suspicion is that international travel— suspicion is that international travel for— suspicion is that international travel for nonessential raisins will have _ travel for nonessential raisins will have to _ travel for nonessential raisins will have to be — travel for nonessential raisins will have to be one of the latest things that resumes and not at the earliest —— nonessential reasons. not that resumes and not at the earliest -- nonessential reasons.— -- nonessential reasons. not the 17th of may. _ -- nonessential reasons. not the 17th of may, then? _ -- nonessential reasons. not the 17th of may, then? no, _ -- nonessential reasons. not the 17th of may, then? no, that- -- nonessential reasons. not thel 17th of may, then? no, that would -- nonessential reasons. not the - 17th of may, then? no, that would be my instinct —

17th of may, then? no, that would be my instinct the _ 17th of may, then? no, that would be my instinct. the scottish _ 17th of may, then? no, that would be my instinct. the scottish government had meetings — my instinct. the scottish government had meetings on _ my instinct. the scottish government had meetings on this _ my instinct. the scottish government had meetings on this topic _ my instinct. the scottish government had meetings on this topic today, - my instinct. the scottish government had meetings on this topic today, is l had meetings on this topic today, is there a decision? taste had meetings on this topic today, is there a decision?— had meetings on this topic today, is there a decision? we have not taken a decision and _ there a decision? we have not taken a decision and this _ there a decision? we have not taken a decision and this is _ there a decision? we have not taken a decision and this is the _ there a decision? we have not taken a decision and this is the kind - there a decision? we have not taken a decision and this is the kind of- a decision and this is the kind of decision— a decision and this is the kind of decision that _ a decision and this is the kind of decision that the _ a decision and this is the kind of decision that the first _ a decision and this is the kind of decision that the first minister i decision that the first minister will he — decision that the first minister will be taking _ decision that the first minister will be taking this _ decision that the first minister will be taking this time - decision that the first minister will be taking this time next i decision that the first minister. will be taking this time next week so it is— will be taking this time next week so it is important— will be taking this time next week so it is important in— will be taking this time next week so it is important in my— will be taking this time next week so it is important in my view- will be taking this time next week so it is important in my view we l so it is important in my view we have _ so it is important in my view we have an — so it is important in my view we have an experienced _ so it is important in my view we have an experienced hand - so it is important in my view we have an experienced hand at. so it is important in my view we| have an experienced hand at the so it is important in my view we - have an experienced hand at the way you are _ have an experienced hand at the way you are taking — have an experienced hand at the way you are taking these _ have an experienced hand at the way you are taking these decisions. - have an experienced hand at the way you are taking these decisions. i - you are taking these decisions. i want _ you are taking these decisions. i want to— you are taking these decisions. i want to get— you are taking these decisions. i want to get international - you are taking these decisions. i want to get international travel. want to get international travel back— want to get international travel back to — want to get international travel back to normal, _ want to get international travel back to normal, just _ want to get international travel back to normal, just as - want to get international travel back to normal, just as much l want to get international traveli back to normal, just as much as want to get international travel . back to normal, just as much as i want _ back to normal, just as much as i want to— back to normal, just as much as i want to get— back to normal, just as much as i want to get every— back to normal, just as much as i want to get every other - back to normal, just as much as i want to get every other aspect i back to normal, just as much as i want to get every other aspect ofj want to get every other aspect of our lives — want to get every other aspect of our lives back— want to get every other aspect of our lives back to _ want to get every other aspect of our lives back to normal- want to get every other aspect of our lives back to normal as - want to get every other aspect of. our lives back to normal as quickly as possible. — our lives back to normal as quickly as possible, and _ our lives back to normal as quickly as possible, and we _ our lives back to normal as quickly as possible, and we talk— our lives back to normal as quickly as possible, and we talk about - as possible, and we talk about holidays. _ as possible, and we talk about holidays. talk— as possible, and we talk about holidays, talk about _ as possible, and we talk about i holidays, talk about international travel. _ holidays, talk about international travel. but — holidays, talk about international travel. but we _ holidays, talk about international travel, but we should _ holidays, talk about international travel, but we should never- holidays, talk about internationall travel, but we should never forget that for— travel, but we should never forget that for many— travel, but we should never forget that for many people _ travel, but we should never forget that for many people international travel— that for many people international travel means _ that for many people international travel means visiting _ that for many people international travel means visiting family- that for many people international travel means visiting family who l travel means visiting family who they have — travel means visiting family who they have been _ travel means visiting family who they have been separated - travel means visiting family who they have been separated fromi travel means visiting family who . they have been separated from for some _ they have been separated from for some time. — they have been separated from for some time. but— they have been separated from for some time, but we _ they have been separated from for some time, but we do— they have been separated from for some time, but we do need - they have been separated from for some time, but we do need to - they have been separated from for some time, but we do need to bei some time, but we do need to be cautious — some time, but we do need to be cautious last— some time, but we do need to be cautious. last summer— some time, but we do need to be cautious. last summer as - some time, but we do need to be cautious. last summer as we - some time, but we do need to be. cautious. last summer as we came some time, but we do need to be - cautious. last summer as we came out of lockdown. _ cautious. last summer as we came out of lockdown. we — cautious. last summer as we came out of lockdown, we open— cautious. last summer as we came out of lockdown, we open up— of lockdown, we open up international— of lockdown, we open up international travel - of lockdown, we open up international travel too l of lockdown, we open up- international travel too quickly, candidly. — international travel too quickly, candidlv. and _ international travel too quickly, candidly, and that _ international travel too quickly, candidly, and that allowed - international travel too quickly, candidly, and that allowed the i international travel too quickly, - candidly, and that allowed the virus to start _ candidly, and that allowed the virus to start again. — candidly, and that allowed the virus to start again, so— candidly, and that allowed the virus to start again, so caution, - to start again, so caution, responsibility— to start again, so caution, responsibility is— to start again, so caution, responsibility is important to start again, so caution, - responsibility is important here, if we are _ responsibility is important here, if we are to — responsibility is important here, if we are to protect _ responsibility is important here, if we are to protect our— responsibility is important here, if we are to protect our progress - responsibility is important here, if we are to protect our progress at. we are to protect our progress at home. — we are to protect our progress at home. open— we are to protect our progress at home. open up— we are to protect our progress at home, open up much— we are to protect our progress at home, open up much greater- we are to protect our progress at - home, open up much greater normality donresticallv. _ home, open up much greater normality domestically, then— home, open up much greater normality domestically, then for— home, open up much greater normality domestically, then for a _ home, open up much greater normality domestically, then for a little _ home, open up much greater normality domestically, then for a little bit- domestically, then for a little bit longer— domestically, then for a little bit longer it— domestically, then for a little bit longer it may _ domestically, then for a little bit longer it may be _ domestically, then for a little bit longer it may be is _ domestically, then for a little bit longer it may be is the _ domestically, then for a little bit longer it may be is the case - domestically, then for a little bit longer it may be is the case that| longer it may be is the case that restrictions— longer it may be is the case that restrictions on— longer it may be is the case that restrictions on international - longer it may be is the case that. restrictions on international travel is the _ restrictions on international travel is the price — restrictions on international travel is the price we _ restrictions on international travel is the price we have _ restrictions on international travel is the price we have to _ restrictions on international travel is the price we have to pay-

restrictions on international travel is the price we have to pay for- restrictions on international travel| is the price we have to pay for that and when — is the price we have to pay for that and when we — is the price we have to pay for that and when we open _ is the price we have to pay for that and when we open up _ is the price we have to pay for that and when we open up we - is the price we have to pay for that and when we open up we focus - is the price we have to pay for that and when we open up we focus on| and when we open up we focus on family— and when we open up we focus on family reunification _ and when we open up we focus on family reunification before - family reunification before holidavs _ family reunification before holida s. ,, ., , , ., ., . holidays. should this be done on a four nation — holidays. should this be done on a four nation basis? _ holidays. should this be done on a four nation basis? that _ holidays. should this be done on a four nation basis? that would - holidays. should this be done on a four nation basis? that would be l holidays. should this be done on a l four nation basis? that would be my preference. — four nation basis? that would be my preference, given _ four nation basis? that would be my preference, given the _ four nation basis? that would be my preference, given the geography - four nation basis? that would be my preference, given the geography ofl preference, given the geography of the uk _ preference, given the geography of the uk and — preference, given the geography of the uk and given— preference, given the geography of the uk and given the _ preference, given the geography of the uk and given the travel- the uk and given the travel patterns. _ the uk and given the travel patterns, but _ the uk and given the travel patterns, but it— the uk and given the travel patterns, but it can't - the uk and given the travel patterns, but it can't be - the uk and given the travel patterns, but it can't be on| the uk and given the travel- patterns, but it can't be on any four— patterns, but it can't be on any four nations _ patterns, but it can't be on any four nations basis _ patterns, but it can't be on any four nations basis and - patterns, but it can't be on any four nations basis and it - patterns, but it can't be on any four nations basis and it needs| patterns, but it can't be on any. four nations basis and it needs to be on _ four nations basis and it needs to be on the — four nations basis and it needs to be on the right— four nations basis and it needs to be on the right basis. _ four nations basis and it needs to be on the right basis. if- four nations basis and it needs to be on the right basis.— be on the right basis. if boris johnson announces _ be on the right basis. if boris johnson announces a - be on the right basis. if boris johnson announces a certain | johnson announces a certain countries you can go to from the 17th of may, are you going to go along with it? taste 17th of may, are you going to go along with it?— 17th of may, are you going to go along with it? we will have to see what the decision _ along with it? we will have to see what the decision is, _ along with it? we will have to see what the decision is, and - along with it? we will have to see what the decision is, and i - along with it? we will have to see what the decision is, and i won't l along with it? we will have to see | what the decision is, and i won't go along _ what the decision is, and i won't go along with — what the decision is, and i won't go along with something, _ what the decision is, and i won't go along with something, if— what the decision is, and i won't go along with something, if i'm - what the decision is, and i won't go along with something, if i'm first l along with something, if i'm first minister. — along with something, if i'm first minister. if— along with something, if i'm first minister. iti— along with something, if i'm first minister, if i do _ along with something, if i'm first minister, if i do not _ along with something, if i'm first minister, if i do not think- along with something, if i'm first minister, if i do not think it - along with something, if i'm first minister, if i do not think it is - along with something, if i'm first minister, if i do not think it is in i minister, if i do not think it is in the interest— minister, if i do not think it is in the interest of— minister, if i do not think it is in the interest of scotland, - minister, if i do not think it is in the interest of scotland, and . minister, if i do not think it is in| the interest of scotland, and the primary— the interest of scotland, and the primary responsibility _ the interest of scotland, and the primary responsibility is - the interest of scotland, and the primary responsibility is to - the interest of scotland, and the i primary responsibility is to protect scotland _ primary responsibility is to protect scotland as— primary responsibility is to protect scotland as far— primary responsibility is to protect scotland as far as _ primary responsibility is to protect scotland as far as possible, - primary responsibility is to protect scotland as far as possible, and i primary responsibility is to protect. scotland as far as possible, and the dangerm _ scotland as far as possible, and the dancer... ., , scotland as far as possible, and the dancer... , , , ,, , danger... scottish sun-seekers might take their air — danger... scottish sun-seekers might take their air travel _ danger... scottish sun-seekers might take their air travel to _ danger... scottish sun-seekers might take their air travel to english - take their air travel to english airports. take their air travel to english airorts. . . take their air travel to english airorts. , . ., take their air travel to english airorts. , . . , , airports. yes, and that is why i willt airports. yes, and that is why i will try to _ airports. yes, and that is why i will try to persuade _ airports. yes, and that is why i will try to persuade boris - airports. yes, and that is why i i will try to persuade boris johnson will try to persuade borisjohnson and the _ will try to persuade borisjohnson and the other— will try to persuade borisjohnson and the other governments - will try to persuade borisjohnson and the other governments of- will try to persuade borisjohnsonj and the other governments of the will try to persuade boris johnson - and the other governments of the uk to come _ and the other governments of the uk to come to _ and the other governments of the uk to come to a — and the other governments of the uk to come to a sensible _ and the other governments of the uk to come to a sensible four— and the other governments of the uk to come to a sensible four nations i to come to a sensible four nations decision— to come to a sensible four nations decision and — to come to a sensible four nations decision and the _ to come to a sensible four nations decision and the problem - to come to a sensible four nations decision and the problem with - to come to a sensible four nations decision and the problem with the traffic— decision and the problem with the traffic light — decision and the problem with the traffic light system _ decision and the problem with the traffic light system is _ decision and the problem with the traffic light system is because - decision and the problem with the traffic light system is because a l

traffic light system is because a country— traffic light system is because a country mav— traffic light system is because a country may be _ traffic light system is because a country may be green, - traffic light system is because a country may be green, you - traffic light system is because al country may be green, you don't traffic light system is because a - country may be green, you don't know if someone _ country may be green, you don't know if someone transiting _ country may be green, you don't know if someone transiting through - country may be green, you don't know if someone transiting through the - if someone transiting through the country— if someone transiting through the country may— if someone transiting through the country may be _ if someone transiting through the country may be carrying - if someone transiting through the country may be carrying the - if someone transiting through the| country may be carrying the virus, so caution — country may be carrying the virus, so caution and _ country may be carrying the virus, so caution and responsibility- country may be carrying the virus, so caution and responsibility is - country may be carrying the virus, | so caution and responsibility is the necessary— so caution and responsibility is the necessary thing _ so caution and responsibility is the necessary thing-— so caution and responsibility is the necessary thing._ we | necessary thing. anas sarwar. we should rrot — necessary thing. anas sarwar. we should not be _ necessary thing. anas sarwar. we should not be afraid _ necessary thing. anas sarwar. we should not be afraid to _ necessary thing. anas sarwar. we should not be afraid to do - necessary thing. anas sarwar. we should not be afraid to do things. should not be afraid to do things differently in scotland if that is the right thing to do.— differently in scotland if that is the right thing to do. what about those who take _ the right thing to do. what about those who take their— the right thing to do. what about those who take their holidays - those who take their holidays to english airports. you need greater transparency and _ english airports. you need greater transparency and controls - english airports. you need greater transparency and controls around | transparency and controls around that but we need to take a balanced approach and it depends which countries you are travelling to and which countries people are travelling from depending on infection rates and variants but the frustration with the industry, that they feel, and i was at edinburgh airport a couple of weeks ago, the frustration the industry feels, the aviation and tourism industry, there has been a lack of communication, so it is not a case of you can make a decision and they are good the next day. they need time to plan and to have flexibility because we are competing with airlines across other airports and airlines across the uk but also across the rest of europe and the rest of the world for those

rights, so let's work with the industry and give them a proper route map and clear indications of what level the virus needs to be from both to and which country we are travelling from, and the fact they can be flexible. you have a testing sensor at edinburgh airport and they can test every passenger as they come off the plane —— testing centre. there are a lot ofjobs at risk and are notjust centre. there are a lot ofjobs at risk and are not just those centre. there are a lot ofjobs at risk and are notjust those that work at the airlines but the businesses that operate in the airport as well. shore businesses that operate in the airport as well.— businesses that operate in the airport as well. are you booking international _ airport as well. are you booking international travel? _ airport as well. are you booking international travel? no, - airport as well. are you booking internationaltravel? no, i'm i airport as well. are you booking i internationaltravel? no, i'm doing a staycation- _ internationaltravel? no, i'm doing a staycation. what _ internationaltravel? no, i'm doing a staycation. what about _ internationaltravel? no, i'm doing a staycation. what about you? i'm| a staycation. what about you? i'm sta in: at a staycation. what about you? i'm staying at home. _ a staycation. what about you? i'm staying at home, as _ a staycation. what about you? i'm staying at home, as well. - a staycation. what about you? i'm staying at home, as well. caution | staying at home, as well. caution should _ staying at home, as well. caution should be — staying at home, as well. caution should be the watchword in all of this. _ should be the watchword in all of this, because we have learnt from the mistakes last year where things were eased too quickly and remember the advice _ were eased too quickly and remember the advice with regards to spain, that was— the advice with regards to spain, that was changed within a matter of days? _ that was changed within a matter of days? we _ that was changed within a matter of days? we need consistency across the uk, days? we need consistency across the uk. it— days? we need consistency across the uk. it we _ days? we need consistency across the uk, if we could get that that would be the _ uk, if we could get that that would be the best way of approaching it but we _

be the best way of approaching it but we need to recognise that other countries _ but we need to recognise that other countries in — but we need to recognise that other countries in the world have not been as fast— countries in the world have not been as fast as _ countries in the world have not been as fast as the uk at rolling out the vaccine _ as fast as the uk at rolling out the vaccine and — as fast as the uk at rolling out the vaccine and a course in some countries _ vaccine and a course in some countries we have seen the virus taking _ countries we have seen the virus taking hold once again with new strains. — taking hold once again with new strains, and so we need to make sure those _ strains, and so we need to make sure those don't _ strains, and so we need to make sure those don't come back and undermine the good _ those don't come back and undermine the good work that i think we have done _ the good work that i think we have done in _ the good work that i think we have done in this— the good work that i think we have done in this country and the sacrifices _ done in this country and the sacrifices we have made. finally, we need _ sacrifices we have made. finally, we need to— sacrifices we have made. finally, we need to have — sacrifices we have made. finally, we need to have the testing regime ramped — need to have the testing regime ramped up especially at airports to make _ ramped up especially at airports to make sure — ramped up especially at airports to make sure that we are able to test people. _ make sure that we are able to test people, coming in and out of the country. — people, coming in and out of the country. so — people, coming in and out of the country, so we absolutely know whether— country, so we absolutely know whether they have the virus or not, that is— whether they have the virus or not, that is the — whether they have the virus or not, that is the best way to protect everyone _ that is the best way to protect everyone. if that is the best way to protect everyone-— everyone. if we have different approaches — everyone. if we have different approaches in _ everyone. if we have different approaches in different - everyone. if we have different approaches in different parts. everyone. if we have different. approaches in different parts of everyone. if we have different i approaches in different parts of the uk, douglas ross, whether there be an obligation on the uk government to deal with scottish passengers coming back from destinations that the scottish government was not happy with travel tour? you hope would be there _ happy with travel tour? you hope would be there is _ happy with travel tour? you hope would be there is a _ happy with travel tour? you hope would be there is a successful i happy with travel tour? you hope l would be there is a successful four nations approach because otherwise it would cause problems in terms of people from scotland potentially transiting through other parts of the uk, and that confusion is not

helpful either and so we need a clear and consistent message if possible, but i go back to the point, a number of us have talked about a staycation, look at the tourism industry in scotland and what it has been through, we have got to support them. the what it has been through, we have got to support them.— what it has been through, we have got to support them. the prices are auoin u! got to support them. the prices are going up! you _ got to support them. the prices are going up! you get _ got to support them. the prices are going up! you get very _ got to support them. the prices are going up! you get very good - got to support them. the prices are j going up! you get very good service in scotland- — going up! you get very good service in scotland. these _ going up! you get very good service in scotland. these are _ going up! you get very good service in scotland. these are industries i in scotland. these are industries that have really suffered and we can all support them by having a staycation. all support them by having a staycation— all support them by having a sta cation. . ., . staycation. another important point, traditional support, _ staycation. another important point, traditional support, and _ staycation. another important point, traditional support, and the - staycation. another important point, traditional support, and the no i traditional support, and the no cliff edge — traditional support, and the no cliff edge on furlough is going to be crucial— cliff edge on furlough is going to be crucial for businesses. a cliff edge on furlough is going to be crucial for businesses.- be crucial for businesses. a fair de . ree be crucial for businesses. a fair degree of— be crucial for businesses. a fair degree of consensus _ be crucial for businesses. a fair degree of consensus on - be crucial for businesses. a fair degree of consensus on that i be crucial for businesses. a fairl degree of consensus on that and be crucial for businesses. fag " degree of consensus on that and when it comes to giroud and your plans for recovery, i noticed reading manifestos —— when it comes to covid and your plans for recovery, i noticed reading manifestos, doubling the charred payment, and a bigger uplift in spending on the nhs, for instance, but i want to touch on an area where you don't agree, whether

it is not consensus, in social care. labour for instance support a national care service in response to the will be sent to the pandemic come up some the biggest tragedies, i think some the biggest tragedies, i think some the biggest mistakes during this crisis, we should never send the covid—i9 positive patients back home. but we are seen is an inconsistent care. let's have a human rights —based approach render care service. —based approach around our care service, and let's have a national discussion around the pay of social and care workers, i want to have a minimum wage for care workers rising to £15 over the course of the next parliament and i want to invest in the workforce so we have a national care service worthy of the name. you sa ou care service worthy of the name. you say you would _ care service worthy of the name. you say you would like the care service

to operate care without profit, habitat be achieved? taste to operate care without profit, habitat be achieved?— to operate care without profit, habitat be achieved? we are being frank. we habitat be achieved? we are being frank- we are _ habitat be achieved? we are being frank. we are not _ habitat be achieved? we are being frank. we are not going _ habitat be achieved? we are being frank. we are not going to - habitat be achieved? we are being frank. we are not going to give i habitat be achieved? we are being frank. we are not going to give it i frank. we are not going to give it into public hands entirely overnight so it needs to be a partnership approach that recognises that putting pressures on local government budgets also impacts on the national care service. your long-term _ the national care service. your long-term aim, _ the national care service. your long-term aim, to _ the national care service. your long-term aim, to be - the national care service. your long-term aim, to be clear, i the national care service. your long-term aim, to be clear, isj the national care service. your. long-term aim, to be clear, is to long—term aim, to be clear, is to have all care provided in the public sector? . . . have all care provided in the public sector? . , . ., . , ., sector? that is a long-term ambition but if we are — sector? that is a long-term ambition but if we are going _ sector? that is a long-term ambition but if we are going to _ sector? that is a long-term ambition but if we are going to deliver - sector? that is a long-term ambition but if we are going to deliver it i but if we are going to deliver it over the next parliament it needs to be done as a partnership between the public service and the private sector and the voluntary sector. douglas ross, what have you got against this idea? taste douglas ross, what have you got against this idea?— against this idea? we agree with man of against this idea? we agree with many of the _ against this idea? we agree with j many of the recommendations in against this idea? we agree with i many of the recommendations in the review— many of the recommendations in the review and _ many of the recommendations in the review and many of the points... this— review and many of the points... this was— review and many of the points... this was a — review and many of the points... this was a review by your former civil servant.— civil servant. yes. it is right that we recognise — civil servant. yes. it is right that we recognise the _ civil servant. yes. it is right that we recognise the staff _ civil servant. yes. it is right that we recognise the staff in - civil servant. yes. it is right that we recognise the staff in the i civil servant. yes. it is right that| we recognise the staff in the care sector— we recognise the staff in the care sector because undoubtedly the nhs staff have gone above and beyond in the last _ staff have gone above and beyond in the last year but so have care staff and i_ the last year but so have care staff and i think— the last year but so have care staff and i think we have seen some of the

most _ and i think we have seen some of the most difficult circumstances in care homes _ most difficult circumstances in care homes and — most difficult circumstances in care homes and communities where they were looking after the most vulnerable in society. you said about recognising _ vulnerable in society. you said about recognising the - vulnerable in society. you said about recognising the staff- vulnerable in society. you said| about recognising the staff and vulnerable in society. you said i about recognising the staff and the unions won a £15 per hour pay minimum for social care staff, is that something you would support? taste that something you would support? we have got to look at what they are asking _ have got to look at what they are asking for— have got to look at what they are asking for and what is achievable because — asking for and what is achievable because everyone accepts that over the next _ because everyone accepts that over the next few years as we come out of the next few years as we come out of the pandemic there is a looming economic— the pandemic there is a looming economic crisis but we have got to engage _ economic crisis but we have got to engage with unions and staff on this but we _ engage with unions and staff on this but we also... sorry. you engage with unions and staff on this but we also... sorry.— but we also... sorry. you have already said — but we also... sorry. you have already said on _ but we also... sorry. you have already said on the _ but we also... sorry. you have already said on the pay - but we also... sorry. you have already said on the pay for i but we also... sorry. you have i already said on the pay for nurses, you have gone from supporting a 1% pay rise to a 4% pay rise so why not guarantee a minimum income for social care workers? taste guarantee a minimum income for social care workers?— guarantee a minimum income for social care workers? we have got to look at that — social care workers? we have got to look at that in _ social care workers? we have got to look at that in the _ social care workers? we have got to look at that in the round _ social care workers? we have got to look at that in the round with - look at that in the round with everything else but we also need to look at _ everything else but we also need to look at unpaid carers in this country— look at unpaid carers in this country and the scottish conservatives have been clearly that we need _ conservatives have been clearly that we need to— conservatives have been clearly that we need to make improvements to the carer's_ we need to make improvements to the carer's allowance. we want to be

able to _ carer's allowance. we want to be able to achieve this, and this is something _ able to achieve this, and this is something we can do for our unpaid carers _ something we can do for our unpaid carers as— something we can do for our unpaid carers as well who are often left behind — carers as well who are often left behind in — carers as well who are often left behind in many of these discussions. ona on a national curse service the conservatives are against it because?— conservatives are against it because? . . ~' ., conservatives are against it because? . ~ ., . because? we are keen to look at this, but because? we are keen to look at this. but i _ because? we are keen to look at this. but i do _ because? we are keen to look at this, but i do not— because? we are keen to look at this, but i do not think _ because? we are keen to look at this, but i do not think it - because? we are keen to look at this, but i do not think it is i because? we are keen to look at this, but i do not think it is the i this, but i do not think it is the answer— this, but i do not think it is the answer to— this, but i do not think it is the answer to all the problems suggested by labour— answer to all the problems suggested by labour and all the others. we have _ by labour and all the others. we have to — by labour and all the others. we have to recognise the huge effort that our— have to recognise the huge effort that our care staff have been through— that our care staff have been through over the past 12 months and recognise _ through over the past 12 months and recognise we cannot continue. there is no money — recognise we cannot continue. there is no money in _ recognise we cannot continue. there is no money in the _ recognise we cannot continue. there is no money in the manifesto - recognise we cannot continue. there is no money in the manifesto for i is no money in the manifesto for this? , , ., this? yes there is, for the care of's allowance. _ this? yes there is, for the care of's allowance. how _ this? yes there is, for the care of's allowance. how much? i this? yes there is, for the care | of's allowance. how much? we this? yes there is, for the care i of's allowance. how much? we are this? yes there is, for the care - of's allowance. how much? we are the onl -a of's allowance. how much? we are the only party that — of's allowance. how much? we are the only party that has _ of's allowance. how much? we are the only party that has fully _ of's allowance. how much? we are the only party that has fully costed - of's allowance. how much? we are the only party that has fully costed our- only party that has fully costed our manifesto. — only party that has fully costed our manifesto, which i am sure you will be delving — manifesto, which i am sure you will be delving into in a wee while. we will come be delving into in a wee while. will come to be delving into in a wee while. a will come to costs in a moment. for the green party, patrick harvie, you support the national care service and while labour have aspirations to

have care entirely in the public sector, you see that as an absolute essential? . , essential? there are elements we should all have _ essential? there are elements we should all have consensus - essential? there are elements we should all have consensus on. i i should all have consensus on. i would agree about the need for increasing the carer's allowance and the young carer's allowance. you would nationalise _ the young carer's allowance. you would nationalise care homes? the young carer's allowance. you i would nationalise care homes? the cuestion would nationalise care homes? the question of— would nationalise care homes? tt9: question of care would nationalise care homes? tt9 question of care homes and the wider social care sector exposes the historic undervaluing of care work. care work is critical to people's well—being and should not be seen as low paid work. we need to agree, and i hope we can across parties on the goal of reaching £15 an hour and of national standards, goal of reaching £15 an hour and of nationalstandards, but goal of reaching £15 an hour and of national standards, but i believe that having the fragmented nature of care homes, some provided by small, independent businesses doing their best, but some provided by big change, stashing their profits and tax havens, that should not be acceptable. tax havens, that should not be acceptable-— tax havens, that should not be accetable. :, . :, , , acceptable. not all the money is stashed in _ acceptable. not all the money is stashed in tax _ acceptable. not all the money is stashed in tax havens _ acceptable. not all the money is stashed in tax havens because i acceptable. not all the money is i stashed in tax havens because the fees that go to private care homes

are subsidised in the care in the private sector.— are subsidised in the care in the private sector. some of the chains do take profit. _ private sector. some of the chains do take profit. we'll— private sector. some of the chains do take profit. we'll all— private sector. some of the chains do take profit. we'll all be - do take profit. we'll all be nationalised? i think it should have a nonprofit expectation, a default expectation of the public sector running care homes. that could well be at local government level and that might be far more appropriate than having the scottish government taking it all in a centralised way. but we absolutely need to ensure that we avoid having fragmented picture. a year into the global pandemic we havejust picture. a year into the global pandemic we have just come through there were still care homes are being rated as poor on basic infection prevention and control measures. it is not acceptable to have that fragmented standard of behaviour throughout the sector if we want to invest in social care thatis we want to invest in social care that is really going to be of value to the next generation who need it in the next crisis. we need to have that greater consistency that a nonprofit and default public sector expectation shall have.—

expectation shall have. greater consistency- — expectation shall have. greater consistency. you _ expectation shall have. greater consistency. you support i expectation shall have. greater consistency. you support a i expectation shall have. greater- consistency. you support a national health service, why not a national care service? we health service, why not a national care service?— health service, why not a national care service? ~ ., , ., , ., care service? we are very wary about a national care _ care service? we are very wary about a national care service _ care service? we are very wary about a national care service because - care service? we are very wary about a national care service because we i a national care service because we do not _ a national care service because we do not want — a national care service because we do not want to— a national care service because we do not want to repeat _ a national care service because we do not want to repeat the - a national care service because wei do not want to repeat the mistakes of the _ do not want to repeat the mistakes of the centralisation _ do not want to repeat the mistakes of the centralisation of— do not want to repeat the mistakes of the centralisation of the - do not want to repeat the mistakes of the centralisation of the police . of the centralisation of the police which _ of the centralisation of the police which i _ of the centralisation of the police which i thihk_ of the centralisation of the police which i think is— of the centralisation of the police which i think is now— of the centralisation of the police which i think is now effectively i which i think is now effectively considered _ which i think is now effectively considered a _ which i think is now effectively considered a mistake. - which i think is now effectively considered a mistake. what i which i think is now effectivelyl considered a mistake. what we which i think is now effectively - considered a mistake. what we need to do— considered a mistake. what we need to do how— considered a mistake. what we need to do how is — considered a mistake. what we need to do how is to— considered a mistake. what we need to do now is to invest _ considered a mistake. what we need to do now is to invest in _ considered a mistake. what we need to do now is to invest in the - considered a mistake. what we need to do now is to invest in the skills. to do now is to invest in the skills and the _ to do now is to invest in the skills and the talent _ to do now is to invest in the skills and the talent of _ to do now is to invest in the skills and the talent of the _ to do now is to invest in the skills and the talent of the staff, - to do now is to invest in the skills. and the talent of the staff, because it is the _ and the talent of the staff, because it is the staff— and the talent of the staff, because it is the staff that _ and the talent of the staff, because it is the staff that has _ and the talent of the staff, because it is the staff that has got _ and the talent of the staff, because it is the staff that has got high- it is the staff that has got high turnover. _ it is the staff that has got high turnover, high— it is the staff that has got high turnover, high vacancy - it is the staff that has got high turnover, high vacancy rates, i it is the staff that has got high- turnover, high vacancy rates, they are hot— turnover, high vacancy rates, they are not paid — turnover, high vacancy rates, they are not paid enough. _ turnover, high vacancy rates, they are not paid enough. that - turnover, high vacancy rates, they are not paid enough. that is - turnover, high vacancy rates, theyl are not paid enough. that is where we want _ are not paid enough. that is where we want to— are not paid enough. that is where we want to invest. _ are not paid enough. that is where we want to invest. we _ are not paid enough. that is where we want to invest. we need - are not paid enough. that is where we want to invest. we need to i are not paid enough. that is wherei we want to invest. we need to have hadonat— we want to invest. we need to have national standards, _ we want to invest. we need to have national standards, national- national standards, national inspection _ national standards, national inspection and _ national standards, national inspection and of _ national standards, national inspection and of course i national standards, national- inspection and of course national pay bargaining, _ inspection and of course national pay bargaining, but— inspection and of course national pay bargaining, but to _ inspection and of course national pay bargaining, but to have i inspection and of course national pay bargaining, but to have an i pay bargaining, but to have an arrangement— pay bargaining, but to have an arrangement of— pay bargaining, but to have an arrangement of a _ pay bargaining, but to have an arrangement of a centralised i pay bargaining, but to have an - arrangement of a centralised service where _ arrangement of a centralised service where tocat— arrangement of a centralised service where local communities _ arrangement of a centralised service where local communities are - arrangement of a centralised service where local communities are taken i where local communities are taken out of— where local communities are taken out of any— where local communities are taken out of any influence _ where local communities are taken out of any influence and _ where local communities are taken out of any influence and control i out of any influence and control over— out of any influence and control over the — out of any influence and control over the service _ out of any influence and control over the service is _ out of any influence and control over the service is a _ out of any influence and control over the service is a mistake. . out of any influence and control i over the service is a mistake. we saw what — over the service is a mistake. we saw what happened _ over the service is a mistake. we saw what happened through i over the service is a mistake. we saw what happened through the i saw what happened through the pandemic — saw what happened through the pandemic. when _ saw what happened through the pandemic. when local— saw what happened through the i pandemic. when local organisations were given — pandemic. when local organisations were given the _ pandemic. when local organisations were given the funding _ pandemic. when local organisations were given the funding and - pandemic. when local organisations were given the funding and they. pandemic. when local organisations. were given the funding and they were able to— were given the funding and they were able to decide — were given the funding and they were able to decide to _ were given the funding and they were able to decide to stop _ were given the funding and they were able to decide to stop the _ were given the funding and they were able to decide to stop the delayed i able to decide to stop the delayed discharge — able to decide to stop the delayed discharge and _ able to decide to stop the delayed discharge and put _ able to decide to stop the delayed discharge and put people - able to decide to stop the delayed discharge and put people out- able to decide to stop the delayed discharge and put people out into| discharge and put people out into care homes— discharge and put people out into care homes they _ discharge and put people out into care homes they were _ discharge and put people out into care homes they were able - discharge and put people out into care homes they were able to i discharge and put people out into care homes they were able to do| discharge and put people out into| care homes they were able to do it swiftty~ _ care homes they were able to do it swiftly. mistakes— care homes they were able to do it swiftly. mistakes were _ care homes they were able to do it swiftly. mistakes were made - care homes they were able to do it i swiftly. mistakes were made because

they were _ swiftly. mistakes were made because they were not — swiftly. mistakes were made because they were not tested _ swiftly. mistakes were made because they were not tested be _ swiftly. mistakes were made because they were not tested be because i swiftly. mistakes were made because| they were not tested be because they were not— they were not tested be because they were not admitted. _ they were not tested be because they were not admitted. but _ they were not tested be because they were not admitted. but it— they were not tested be because they were not admitted. but it showed i were not admitted. but it showed what _ were not admitted. but it showed what could — were not admitted. but it showed what could be _ were not admitted. but it showed what could be done _ were not admitted. but it showed what could be done when - were not admitted. but it showed what could be done when the i were not admitted. but it showed i what could be done when the funds were available. _ what could be done when the funds were available.— what could be done when the funds were available. there is no money in the lib dem — were available. there is no money in the lib dem manifesto _ were available. there is no money in the lib dem manifesto for— were available. there is no money in the lib dem manifesto for this. i the lib dem manifesto for this. there is. we have left £2.5 billion there is. we have left {2.5 billion of headroom _ there is. we have left {2.5 billion of headroom to _ there is. we have left {2.5 billion of headroom to be _ there is. we have left {2.5 billion of headroom to be able _ there is. we have left {2.5 billion of headroom to be able to - there is. we have left {2.5 billion of headroom to be able to afford. there is. we have left {2.5 billion i of headroom to be able to afford pay bargaining _ of headroom to be able to afford pay bargaining in— of headroom to be able to afford pay bargaining in a— of headroom to be able to afford pay bargaining in a number— of headroom to be able to afford pay bargaining in a number of— of headroom to be able to afford pay bargaining in a number of different l bargaining in a number of different areas. _ bargaining in a number of different areas. so— bargaining in a number of different areas. so we — bargaining in a number of different areas. so we have— bargaining in a number of different areas, so we have left— bargaining in a number of different areas, so we have left headroom. i areas, so we have left headroom. only— areas, so we have left headroom. only four — areas, so we have left headroom. only four pay? _ areas, so we have left headroom. only four pay? and _ areas, so we have left headroom. | only four pay? and reorganisation areas, so we have left headroom. i only four pay? and reorganisation as well. only four pay? and reorganisation as wett~ we _ only four pay? and reorganisation as wett~ we need — only four pay? and reorganisation as wett~ we need to _ only four pay? and reorganisation as well. we need to invest— only four pay? and reorganisation as well. we need to invest in— only four pay? and reorganisation as well. we need to invest in the - well. we need to invest in the skills— well. we need to invest in the skills and _ well. we need to invest in the skills and talent _ well. we need to invest in the skills and talent of— well. we need to invest in the skills and talent of staff - well. we need to invest in the i skills and talent of staff because that witt— skills and talent of staff because that will be _ skills and talent of staff because that will be the _ skills and talent of staff because that will be the way— skills and talent of staff because that will be the way to _ skills and talent of staff because that will be the way to make i skills and talent of staff because| that will be the way to make sure skills and talent of staff because i that will be the way to make sure we can get— that will be the way to make sure we can get a _ that will be the way to make sure we can get a care — that will be the way to make sure we can get a care service _ that will be the way to make sure we can get a care service fit _ that will be the way to make sure we can get a care service fit for- can get a care service fit for purpose _ can get a care service fit for purpose. we _ can get a care service fit for purpose. we were - can get a care service fit for| purpose. we were supposed can get a care service fit for. purpose. we were supposed to can get a care service fit for- purpose. we were supposed to have abolished _ purpose. we were supposed to have abolished delayed _ purpose. we were supposed to have abolished delayed discharge - purpose. we were supposed to have abolished delayed discharge years. abolished delayed discharge years a-o, abolished delayed discharge years ago. but _ abolished delayed discharge years ago. but it— abolished delayed discharge years ago. but it was— abolished delayed discharge years ago, but it was not— abolished delayed discharge years ago, but it was not done - abolished delayed discharge years ago, but it was not done until- abolished delayed discharge years ago, but it was not done until the| ago, but it was not done until the pandemic— ago, but it was not done until the pandemic came _ ago, but it was not done until the pandemic came along. _ ago, but it was not done until the pandemic came along. mistakes i ago, but it was not done until the i pandemic came along. mistakes were made _ pandemic came along. mistakes were made in _ pandemic came along. mistakes were made in the _ pandemic came along. mistakes were made in the past _ pandemic came along. mistakes were made in the past and _ pandemic came along. mistakes were made in the past and we _ pandemic came along. mistakes were made in the past and we should - pandemic came along. mistakes were made in the past and we should not. made in the past and we should not make _ made in the past and we should not make mistakes— made in the past and we should not make mistakes again _ made in the past and we should not make mistakes again with - made in the past and we should not make mistakes again with the - make mistakes again with the national— make mistakes again with the national care _ make mistakes again with the national care service. - make mistakes again with the national care service.- make mistakes again with the national care service. £600 million a ear? national care service. £600 million a year? we — national care service. £600 million a year? we need — national care service. £600 million a year? we need to _ national care service. £600 million a year? we need to make - national care service. £600 million a year? we need to make sure i national care service. £600 million a year? we need to make sure we| national care service. £600 million i a year? we need to make sure we can afford all these _ a year? we need to make sure we can afford all these things. _ a year? we need to make sure we can afford all these things. one _ a year? we need to make sure we can afford all these things. one thing i afford all these things. one thing we must — afford all these things. one thing we must not _ afford all these things. one thing we must not do _ afford all these things. one thing we must not do is _ afford all these things. one thing we must not do is repeat- afford all these things. one thing we must not do is repeat the i we must not do is repeat the mistakes _ we must not do is repeat the mistakes of— we must not do is repeat the mistakes of the _ we must not do is repeat the mistakes of the past - we must not do is repeat the| mistakes of the past because

we must not do is repeat the i mistakes of the past because the care service _ mistakes of the past because the care service was _ mistakes of the past because the care service was not _ mistakes of the past because the care service was not fit _ mistakes of the past because the care service was not fit for - mistakes of the past because the l care service was not fit for purpose when _ care service was not fit for purpose when the _ care service was not fit for purpose when the came _ care service was not fit for purpose when the came along. _ care service was not fit for purpose when the came along. [5 _ care service was not fit for purpose when the came along.— when the came along. is that true, nicola sturgeon? _ when the came along. is that true, nicola sturgeon? the _ when the came along. is that true, nicola sturgeon? the pandemic i when the came along. is that true, | nicola sturgeon? the pandemic has undoubtedly — nicola sturgeon? the pandemic has undoubtedly shone _ nicola sturgeon? the pandemic has undoubtedly shone a _ nicola sturgeon? the pandemic has undoubtedly shone a light _ nicola sturgeon? the pandemic has undoubtedly shone a light on i nicola sturgeon? the pandemic has undoubtedly shone a light on the i undoubtedly shone a light on the strength of our care system, but also on the fragility of it. before we get into the details, let's not forget that out of the trauma of the second world war the nhs was born. we should be bold second world war the nhs was born. we should be hold about the legacy one for future generations from the trauma of this pandemic and a national care service should be one of those ambitions. but national care service should be one of those ambitions.— of those ambitions. but why has it taken a global— of those ambitions. but why has it taken a global pandemic - of those ambitions. but why has it taken a global pandemic for i of those ambitions. but why has it taken a global pandemic for you . of those ambitions. but why has it| taken a global pandemic for you to make this a priority? in 2011 when you were health secretary you said, i consider improving care for older people to be a personal priority. and we have done, we have integrated health and social care, we have taken steps health and social care, we have ta ken steps to invest more health and social care, we have taken steps to invest more in social care. there are a range of reforms that have been made, but this one is going that next stage of the journey to a genuine national care service.

you were saying in 2008 there was a warning of a growing funding gap in social care on your watch and they said that funding was not keeping up with growing demand and taxes would have to rise then. irate with growing demand and taxes would have to rise then.— have to rise then. we reformed the income tax — have to rise then. we reformed the income tax system _ have to rise then. we reformed the income tax system to _ have to rise then. we reformed the income tax system to bring - have to rise then. we reformed the income tax system to bring more . income tax system to bring more money into the system to be devoted to both health and social care. in 2008 we were starting a decade of conservative imposed austerity. money has been tight across the board. coming back to the central question, it was a scottish government that commissioned an independent review that resulted in the report. it is initially about consistent national standards. it is about consistent terms and conditions for workers, a national wage, national collective bargaining, driving up the pay of a predominately female workforce and it is about moving to a structure of ownership that is not based on profit. ownership that is not based on rofit. ., ., ., .,

profit. you want to get rid of rivate profit. you want to get rid of private care? _ profit. you want to get rid of private care? ultimately i profit. you want to get rid of} private care? ultimately that profit. you want to get rid of - private care? ultimately that would be the direction _ private care? ultimately that would be the direction of _ private care? ultimately that would be the direction of travel. - private care? ultimately that would be the direction of travel. why? - private care? ultimately that would | be the direction of travel. why? we need to reflect on the fact that just like the nhs at the care of our more vulnerable, older people should not be driven by the profit motive. is there an example you can give of a country that already operates that successfully? mir? a country that already operates that successfully?— successfully? why don't we decide how to do the _ successfully? why don't we decide how to do the best _ successfully? why don't we decide how to do the best for _ successfully? why don't we decide how to do the best for us - successfully? why don't we decide how to do the best for us here - successfully? why don't we decide how to do the best for us here in l how to do the best for us here in scotland? i do not pretend it can be delivered overnight, we have to do that in stages. in our manifesto we say we would consult cross—party on the detail of the legislation, we would seek to pass foundation legislation within the first year of the parliament. we commit to £8 million additional resources. that shows how _ million additional resources. that shows how badly _ million additional resources. that shows how badly underfunded the sector is. ., ., , ., ., sector is. no, it does not, we want to make a — sector is. no, it does not, we want to make a step _ sector is. no, it does not, we want to make a step change. _ sector is. no, it does not, we want to make a step change. we - sector is. no, it does not, we want to make a step change. we can - sector is. no, it does not, we want to make a step change. we can go| to make a step change. we can go back to how we did things before or we can decide we want to do things significantly better. it is we can decide we want to do things significantly better.— significantly better. it is that chance significantly better. it is that change that _ significantly better. it is that change that includes - significantly better. it is that i change that includes ultimately taking the profit motive out of

social care, is it not time that happen? social care, is it not time that ha en? ~ . social care, is it not time that ha . en? . ., ., social care, is it not time that ha en? . ., ., , , social care, is it not time that ha--en?~ ., .,, , happen? we have to be very careful about what we _ happen? we have to be very careful about what we are _ happen? we have to be very careful about what we are saying _ happen? we have to be very careful about what we are saying about - happen? we have to be very careful about what we are saying about the | about what we are saying about the profit _ about what we are saying about the profit motive. there are outstanding private _ profit motive. there are outstanding private care — profit motive. there are outstanding private care homes across scotland that have _ private care homes across scotland that have done tremendous work throughout the last year. this debate — throughout the last year. this debate suggesting they are all terrible — debate suggesting they are all terrible and it would suddenly he terrible and it would suddenly be great _ terrible and it would suddenly be great if _ terrible and it would suddenly be great if we had a national care service, — great if we had a national care service, that demeans and undermines everything _ service, that demeans and undermines everything the private care homes and their— everything the private care homes and their staff have been doing, not 'ust and their staff have been doing, not just irr— and their staff have been doing, not just in the _ and their staff have been doing, not just in the last year, but in the past _ just in the last year, but in the ast. ., . just in the last year, but in the ast, ., ., , ., ~' y., just in the last year, but in the ast. ., ., , ., ~' i., ., past. you are shaking your head. nicola sturgeon's _ past. you are shaking your head. nicola sturgeon's point _ past. you are shaking your head. nicola sturgeon's point is - past. you are shaking your head. nicola sturgeon's point is her- past. you are shaking your head. | nicola sturgeon's point is her aim is to end — nicola sturgeon's point is her aim is to end private care homes and have _ is to end private care homes and have a _ is to end private care homes and have a national care service and that does— have a national care service and that does diminish the work they are doing _ that does diminish the work they are doing right _ that does diminish the work they are doing right now. | that does diminish the work they are doing right now. i do that does diminish the work they are doing right now-— doing right now. i do not think it does, to doing right now. i do not think it does. to be _ doing right now. i do not think it does, to be perfectly _ doing right now. i do not think it does, to be perfectly frank - doing right now. i do not think it| does, to be perfectly frank about it. saying that in the fullness of time we want to move to a national care service that is founded on similar principles to the nhs does not demean or diminish the fantastic work that is done in care homes at the length and breadth of the country. over the past year as first

minister i have seen first—hand what we owe to people working in our care service. there are fantastic care homes. there are issues that have been thrown up by this pandemic. the public health scotland report that looked at issues in the first wave of the pandemic talked about the correlation between outbreaks and the size of care homes. if we want to be serious about learning the lessons and building something for the future, we have to be open and frank about that. there is no limit to the depth of my appreciation for those working in our care sector in the past year and at all times. irate the past year and at all times. we all went out _ the past year and at all times. we all went out and applauded our front line health _ all went out and applauded our front line health care workers and our sociat— line health care workers and our social care — line health care workers and our social care staff and we owe them a pay rise _ social care staff and we owe them a pay rise and — social care staff and we owe them a pay rise and the fact you cannot commit — pay rise and the fact you cannot commit to— pay rise and the fact you cannot commit to that pay rise is unacceptable. let's not pretend our care sector — unacceptable. let's not pretend our care sector was only facing these challenges through a pandemic. they were overworked, undervalued and under— were overworked, undervalued and under resourced before the pandemic. it under resourced before the pandemic. it was _ under resourced before the pandemic. it was made _ under resourced before the pandemic. it was made worse through the pandemic and that was directly as a

result— pandemic and that was directly as a result of— pandemic and that was directly as a result of cuts to local government budgets _ result of cuts to local government budgets and the impact that had on social— budgets and the impact that had on social care — budgets and the impact that had on social care and that was cut is voted — social care and that was cut is voted through by nicola sturgeon and by patrick— voted through by nicola sturgeon and by patrick harvie. we cannot pretend the cut _ by patrick harvie. we cannot pretend the cut and _ by patrick harvie. we cannot pretend the cut and those budgets. i accept the cut and those budgets. i accept the fact— the cut and those budgets. i accept the fact that there was tory imposed austerity. _ the fact that there was tory imposed austerity, but we tripled the cuts that came — austerity, but we tripled the cuts that came from westminster. we handed _ that came from westminster. we handed that down to local government, £100 billion of cuts. nicola _ government, £100 billion of cuts. nicola says it is not true. speak to the social— nicola says it is not true. speak to the social care staff and they will tell you — the social care staff and they will tell you it — the social care staff and they will tell you it is true, speak to the gmb_ tell you it is true, speak to the gmb and — tell you it is true, speak to the gmb and they will tell you it is true _ gmb and they will tell you it is true the _ gmb and they will tell you it is true. the very gmb that patrick harvie — true. the very gmb that patrick harvie refused to support. did you su ort harvie refused to support. did you support the _ harvie refused to support. did you support the budgets _ harvie refused to support. did you support the budgets that - harvie refused to support. did you support the budgets that were - support the budgets that were allocated? ., ., , , support the budgets that were allocated? ., , , ., allocated? that last bit is not true. allocated? that last bit is not true- the _ allocated? that last bit is not true. the fans _ allocated? that last bit is not true. the fans that _ allocated? that last bit is not true. the fans that went - allocated? that last bit is not true. the fans that went into | allocated? that last bit is not - true. the fans that went into local government— true. the fans that went into local government or _ true. the fans that went into local government or increased - true. the fans that went into local . government or increased specifically because _ government or increased specifically because of— government or increased specifically because of green— government or increased specifically because of green action. _ government or increased specifically because of green action. when - government or increased specifically. because of green action. when nicola mentioned _ because of green action. when nicola mentioned the — because of green action. when nicola mentioned the fair— because of green action. when nicola mentioned the fair tax _ because of green action. when nicola mentioned the fair tax system - because of green action. when nicola mentioned the fair tax system that i mentioned the fair tax system that scotland _ mentioned the fair tax system that scotland has, _ mentioned the fair tax system that scotland has, five _ mentioned the fair tax system that scotland has, five years _ mentioned the fair tax system that scotland has, five years ago - mentioned the fair tax system that scotland has, five years ago at - mentioned the fair tax system that scotland has, five years ago at the| scotland has, five years ago at the last hotvrood _ scotland has, five years ago at the last holyrood election—

scotland has, five years ago at the last holyrood election nicola - scotland has, five years ago at the last holyrood election nicola was i last holyrood election nicola was arguing _ last holyrood election nicola was arguing against— last holyrood election nicola was arguing against the _ last holyrood election nicola was arguing against the tax _ last holyrood election nicola wasj arguing against the tax proposals the greens— arguing against the tax proposals the greens were _ arguing against the tax proposals the greens were proposing. - arguing against the tax proposals the greens were proposing. we l arguing against the tax proposals i the greens were proposing. we now have that _ the greens were proposing. we now have that fairer— the greens were proposing. we now have that fairer tax _ the greens were proposing. we now have that fairer tax system - the greens were proposing. we now have that fairer tax system which i have that fairer tax system which has put _ have that fairer tax system which has put all — have that fairer tax system which has put all those _ have that fairer tax system which has put all those hundreds - have that fairer tax system which has put all those hundreds of- has put all those hundreds of millions— has put all those hundreds of millions of— has put all those hundreds of millions of pounds _ has put all those hundreds of millions of pounds extra - has put all those hundreds of millions of pounds extra into| has put all those hundreds of- millions of pounds extra into local services _ millions of pounds extra into local services over— millions of pounds extra into local services over and _ millions of pounds extra into local services over and above _ millions of pounds extra into local services over and above what - millions of pounds extra into local services over and above what was| millions of pounds extra into local l services over and above what was in the snp _ services over and above what was in the snp budgets _ services over and above what was in the snp budgets when _ services over and above what was in the snp budgets when they- services over and above what was in the snp budgets when they were i the snp budgets when they were introduced — the snp budgets when they were introduced. that— the snp budgets when they were introduced. that is— the snp budgets when they were introduced. that is the _ the snp budgets when they were introduced. that is the green- introduced. that is the green impact, _ introduced. that is the green impact, putting— introduced. that is the green impact, putting forward - introduced. that is the green. impact, putting forward positive ideas. _ impact, putting forward positive ideas. showing— impact, putting forward positive ideas, showing how— impact, putting forward positive ideas, showing how they- impact, putting forward positive ideas, showing how they can - impact, putting forward positive ideas, showing how they can be| ideas, showing how they can be funded — ideas, showing how they can be funded and _ ideas, showing how they can be funded and showing _ ideas, showing how they can be funded and showing how- ideas, showing how they can be funded and showing how you i ideas, showing how they can bel funded and showing how you can ideas, showing how they can be - funded and showing how you can make it work— funded and showing how you can make it work in— funded and showing how you can make it work in a _ funded and showing how you can make it work in a way— funded and showing how you can make it work in a way that _ funded and showing how you can make it work in a way that is _ funded and showing how you can make it work in a way that is fair _ funded and showing how you can make it work in a way that is fair and - it work in a way that is fair and protects — it work in a way that is fair and protects att _ it work in a way that is fair and protects all middle _ it work in a way that is fair and protects all middle and - it work in a way that is fair and protects all middle and lower. protects all middle and lower earners _ protects all middle and lower earners. , . ., , earners. the sector has been neglected — earners. the sector has been neglected for _ earners. the sector has been neglected for far _ earners. the sector has been neglected for far too - earners. the sector has been neglected for far too long. i earners. the sector has been | neglected for far too long. we earners. the sector has been - neglected for far too long. we were supposed to have abolished delayed discharge in 2016 and that was not done. we have got a 20% vacancy in the social care sector because it is underfunded. but we have also got massive turnover amongst the staff. what we need to do is have the investment. i am wary about the sticking plaster approach of having a new, national, shiny, care service because that does not deal with the fundamental problems in the care service. if fundamental problems in the care service. . ., ., ., ., ., service. if we are having a national care service _ service. if we are having a national care service and — service. if we are having a national care service and there _ service. if we are having a national care service and there is _ service. if we are having a national care service and there is a - service. if we are having a national care service and there is a big - care service and there is a big

spending pledge for those who have set that out in some detail, and in fact there is a lot of big spending pledges in this election, the institute for fiscal studies has taken a look at some of the parties are' manifestos. it says these manifestos have in common a disconnect from the fiscal reality that the next scottish government is likely to face. in other words, they do not think the numbers add up. that takes us to a question on tax. hands up, please, if you have no fixed plans to put up income tax in the next parliament? no fixed plans to put up income tax. irate the next parliament? no fixed plans to put up income tax.— to put up income tax. we take the view that now _ to put up income tax. we take the view that now is _ to put up income tax. we take the view that now is not _ to put up income tax. we take the view that now is not the _ to put up income tax. we take the view that now is not the time. - to put up income tax. we take the. view that now is not the time. keep our view that now is not the time. keep your hands — view that now is not the time. keep your hands up- _ view that now is not the time. keep your hands up. come _ view that now is not the time. keep your hands up. come on, _ view that now is not the time. keep your hands up. come on, hands - view that now is not the time. keepj your hands up. come on, hands up, can we not — your hands up. come on, hands up, can we not have _ your hands up. come on, hands up, can we not have a _ your hands up. come on, hands up, can we not have a proper _ your hands up. come on, hands up, can we not have a proper debate! i can we not have a proper debate! these _ can we not have a proper debate! these are — can we not have a proper debate! these are complex issues, it is a bit more — these are complex issues, it is a bit more complicated than hands up and hands _ bit more complicated than hands up and hands down.— bit more complicated than hands up and hands down. let's talk about it. ok, let's and hands down. let's talk about it. ok. let's talk _ and hands down. let's talk about it. ok, let's talk about _ and hands down. let's talk about it. ok, let's talk about it _ and hands down. let's talk about it. ok, let's talk about it because - and hands down. let's talk about it. ok, let's talk about it because we i ok, let's talk about it because we

are looking to establish whether or not that is meaningless to talk or whether it is a guarantee. truth? not that is meaningless to talk or whether it is a guarantee. why don't ou ask us whether it is a guarantee. why don't you ask us how _ whether it is a guarantee. why don't you ask us how we _ whether it is a guarantee. why don't you ask us how we will— whether it is a guarantee. why don't you ask us how we will find - whether it is a guarantee. why don't you ask us how we will find our- you ask us how we will find our manifestos? | you ask us how we will find our manifestos?— manifestos? i get to ask the questions — manifestos? i get to ask the questions and _ manifestos? i get to ask the questions and hopefully - manifestos? i get to ask the questions and hopefully you | manifestos? i get to ask the - questions and hopefully you will do the answers. let's start with you because you are very keen to talk on this one and your manifesto says it is important any government has the flexibility to respond to a change in circumstances. does that mean taxes could go up in the course of the next parliament? for taxes could go up in the course of the next parliament?— taxes could go up in the course of the next parliament? for the next parliament. _ the next parliament? for the next parliament, given _ the next parliament? for the next parliament, given we _ the next parliament? for the next parliament, given we will - the next parliament? for the next parliament, given we will be - parliament, given we will be recovering economically from covid, tax stability matters and we have no plans _ tax stability matters and we have no plans to _ tax stability matters and we have no plans to increase income tax. it is candid _ plans to increase income tax. it is candid to— plans to increase income tax. it is candid to say that any government has to— candid to say that any government has to have — candid to say that any government has to have flexibility if there are unforeseen circumstances. what unforeseen circumstances. what unforeseen circumstances? if they are unforeseen, they are unforeseen. what _ are unforeseen, they are unforeseen. what kind _ are unforeseen, they are unforeseen. what kind of— are unforeseen, they are unforeseen. what kind of thing? if are unforeseen, they are unforeseen. what kind of thing?— what kind of thing? if the tories slash our budgets _ what kind of thing? if the tories slash our budgets beyond - what kind of thing? if the tories slash our budgets beyond what i what kind of thing? if the tories l slash our budgets beyond what we expect _ slash our budgets beyond what we expect them to do. we reformed the system _ expect them to do. we reformed the system in _ expect them to do. we reformed the system in the last parliament and raise _ system in the last parliament and raise more — system in the last parliament and raise more revenue out of it and

given— raise more revenue out of it and given the — raise more revenue out of it and given the focus on economic recovery and recovery— given the focus on economic recovery and recovery in household finances as well, _ and recovery in household finances as well, because many people have lost their— as well, because many people have lost theirjobs and seen a dip in their— lost theirjobs and seen a dip in their income, so that tax stability is important. also important is how we fund _ is important. also important is how we fund the — is important. also important is how we fund the manifestos. we published as a scottish government injanuary at the _ as a scottish government injanuary at the medium term financial strategy— at the medium term financial strategy and all parties have been able to— strategy and all parties have been able to have regard to that. it had able to have regard to that. it had a high, _ able to have regard to that. it had a high, central, low scenario based of the _ a high, central, low scenario based of the fiscal— a high, central, low scenario based of the fiscal commission and the office _ of the fiscal commission and the office for— of the fiscal commission and the office for budget responsibility and we have _ office for budget responsibility and we have geared our manifesto commitments to below the central scenario — commitments to below the central scenario it— commitments to below the central scenario. it is affordable and reasonable. no scenario. it is affordable and reasonable.— scenario. it is affordable and reasonable. ., , ., reasonable. no rise in income tax and a pledge _ reasonable. no rise in income tax and a pledge to — reasonable. no rise in income tax and a pledge to raise _ reasonable. no rise in income tax and a pledge to raise business i reasonable. no rise in income tax i and a pledge to raise business rates is a difficult circle to square. riff is a difficult circle to square. of course it is difficult. on the assumption... on the assumptions that have _ assumption... on the assumptions that have been made about the growth in devolved _ that have been made about the growth in devolved tax revenues and changes in devolved tax revenues and changes in the _ in devolved tax revenues and changes in the block— in devolved tax revenues and changes in the block grant, our manifesto

commitments can be funded within that central scenario. but the point is this, _ that central scenario. but the point is this, as — that central scenario. but the point is this, as we come out of this pandemic— is this, as we come out of this pandemic it is important we invest for the _ pandemic it is important we invest for the future and we invest in economic— for the future and we invest in economic growth and the transition to net— economic growth and the transition to net zero— economic growth and the transition to net zero and that we invest also in tackling — to net zero and that we invest also in tackling some of the problem is that a _ in tackling some of the problem is that a light has been shown on, inequality. _ that a light has been shown on, inequality, child poverty. that is why hold — inequality, child poverty. that is why bold manifestos are needed at this election. the very last point is, there — this election. the very last point is, there is— this election. the very last point is, there is not an election i have fought— is, there is not an election i have fought were _ is, there is not an election i have fought were respected organisations like the _ fought were respected organisations like the iss fought were respected organisations like the 155 have not said commitments are unaffordable. i need a government that has balanced the trudget— a government that has balanced the budget every year we have been in office _ budget every year we have been in office. these commitments can be funded _ office. these commitments can be funded and it is important they are. may be that is why so many things she has promised are never delivered, and people will be watching at home shaking their head, a question on the snp manifesto and commitments made to the electorate turns into an answer about the tories in westminster. the snp have

not costed, fully costed their manifesto in the way that the scottish conservatives have. there is criticism — scottish conservatives have. there is criticism of _ scottish conservatives have. there is criticism of you, _ scottish conservatives have. there is criticism of you, as _ scottish conservatives have. there is criticism of you, as well. - scottish conservatives have. there is criticism of you, as well. i - is criticism of you, as well. i accept that, but the nicola is criticism of you, as well. i accept that, but the nicola sturgeon to suggest that somehow her manifesto is fully costed when her own deputy leader gives a different figure for their policies on free dental care, they can't even get a consistent message, so we have got to be more honest with the public. they are not getting that from nicola sturgeon and the snp. you have not nicola sturgeon and the snp. you have got an _ nicola sturgeon and the snp. you have got an aspiration in your manifesto, in effect to cut income tax by matching bands manifesto, in effect to cut income tax by matching hands over the course of the parliament if that is possible, how much would that cost? towards the end of parliament commit we can focus on investing in our education system, and if we can focus on investing in the nhs and if we can focus on protecting peoples jobs, people watching at home worried about... we have got to focus on that first and then we will come to an issue that might stop us doing that. come to an issue that might stop us doinu that. ., . ..,,

doing that. how much will it cost? if we can do _ doing that. how much will it cost? if we can do that _ doing that. how much will it cost? if we can do that towards - doing that. how much will it cost? if we can do that towards the - doing that. how much will it cost? if we can do that towards the end | doing that. how much will it cost? i if we can do that towards the end of the parliament and i'm not saying this is a cast—iron commitment, but this is a cast-iron commitment, but our this is a cast—iron commitment, mt our pledge is to seek parity in the tax system so 1.1 million people in scotland who are taxed more for doing the samejob scotland who are taxed more for doing the same job than the rest of the uk. it is 1.1 billion people. —— 1.1 million people. the uk. it is 1.1 billion people. -- 1.1 million people.— the uk. it is 1.1 billion people. -- 1.1 million people. what douglas is t in: to 1.1 million people. what douglas is trying to say _ 1.1 million people. what douglas is trying to say but — 1.1 million people. what douglas is trying to say but using _ 1.1 million people. what douglas is trying to say but using more - 1.1 million people. what douglas is trying to say but using more wordsj trying to say but using more words than he _ trying to say but using more words than he needs to is he has given himself— than he needs to is he has given himself a — than he needs to is he has given himself a tax cut rather than people across— himself a tax cut rather than people across the _ himself a tax cut rather than people across the country. it is himself a tax cut rather than people across the country.— across the country. it is 1.1 million people. _ across the country. it is 1.1 million people. do - across the country. it is 1.1 million people. do you - across the country. it is 1.1 i million people. do you agree across the country. it is 1.1 - million people. do you agree with that figure?— that figure? you want to give ourself that figure? you want to give yourself a — that figure? you want to give yourself a tax _ that figure? you want to give yourself a tax cut _ that figure? you want to give yourself a tax cut from - that figure? you want to give yourself a tax cut from the i that figure? you want to give - yourself a tax cut from the salaries yourself a tax cut from the salaries you want _ yourself a tax cut from the salaries you want to — yourself a tax cut from the salaries you want to earn across scotland but the important point is, we want to raise _ the important point is, we want to raise tax— the important point is, we want to raise tax and the tax we want to raise _ raise tax and the tax we want to raise is— raise tax and the tax we want to raise is to — raise tax and the tax we want to raise is to look and find what we have _ raise is to look and find what we have in— raise is to look and find what we have in scotland in order to tax the bil have in scotland in order to tax the big online — have in scotland in order to tax the big online giants like amazon so we can use _ big online giants like amazon so we can use the — big online giants like amazon so we can use the money raised on the high

streets _ can use the money raised on the high streets trte— can use the money raised on the high streets. ~ . . ~ can use the money raised on the high streets. ~ . ., ,, ., .., streets. we are talking about income tax and during _ streets. we are talking about income tax and during the _ streets. we are talking about income tax and during the labour— streets. we are talking about income tax and during the labour leadership| tax and during the labour leadership contest, just a few weeks ago, you said you wanted to raise income tax on higher earners. i said you wanted to raise income tax on higher earners.— on higher earners. i still support the principle _ on higher earners. i still support the principle of _ on higher earners. i still support the principle of a _ on higher earners. i still support the principle of a more - on higher earners. i still support i the principle of a more progressive tax system, and what makes the situation — tax system, and what makes the situation slightly different. that is not in your— situation slightly different. trust is not in your manifesto. situation slightly different. that is not in your manifesto. what i situation slightly different. that - is not in your manifesto. what makes the situation — is not in your manifesto. what makes the situation is _ is not in your manifesto. what makes the situation is there _ is not in your manifesto. what makes the situation is there is _ is not in your manifesto. what makes the situation is there is billions - the situation is there is billions of pounds _ the situation is there is billions of pounds on on allocated money which _ of pounds on on allocated money which we — of pounds on on allocated money which we think we should be spending in the _ which we think we should be spending in the first— which we think we should be spending in the first instance and if we did need _ in the first instance and if we did need to— in the first instance and if we did need to raise more money to spend on things— need to raise more money to spend on things across _ need to raise more money to spend on things across the country we would only consider tax rises on those earning — only consider tax rises on those earning over £150,000 in the first instance — earning over £150,000 in the first instance. our presumption would be to not— instance. our presumption would be to not increase income taxes through the course _ to not increase income taxes through the course of the recovery but if we needed _ the course of the recovery but if we needed to— the course of the recovery but if we needed to increase income taxes because — needed to increase income taxes because we needed to raise more money— because we needed to raise more money we — because we needed to raise more money we would look to do it to those _ money we would look to do it to

those earning over £150,000, but the amazon— those earning over £150,000, but the amazon tax— those earning over £150,000, but the amazon tax first. that those earning over £150,000, but the amazon tax first.— amazon tax first. that would bring in something _ amazon tax first. that would bring in something like _ amazon tax first. that would bring in something like £140 _ amazon tax first. that would bring in something like £140 million, i amazon tax first. that would bring | in something like £140 million, the rfs says you might end up with nothing because those who would have to pay it might go and pay their taxes elsewhere —— iss. the to pay it might go and pay their taxes elsewhere -- iss. the people who earn over _ taxes elsewhere -- iss. the people who earn over that _ taxes elsewhere -- iss. the people who earn over that amount - taxes elsewhere -- iss. the people who earn over that amount are - taxes elsewhere -- iss. the people who earn over that amount are in i taxes elsewhere -- iss. the people. who earn over that amount are in the public— who earn over that amount are in the public sector— who earn over that amount are in the public sector and they are not going anywhere _ public sector and they are not going anywhere anyway, and if we needed to raise more _ anywhere anyway, and if we needed to raise more money, we will look to those _ raise more money, we will look to those earning more than £150,000. willie _ those earning more than £150,000. willie rennie, in common with the other parties you are not planning to put up income tax but you have some bold ideas in your manifesto and if you code you would bring in universal basic income, so you would have to put up personal taxes to pay for that? have to put up personal taxes to pay forthat? —— if have to put up personal taxes to pay for that? —— if you could. that have to put up personal taxes to pay for that? -- if you could.— for that? -- if you could. that is an aspiration — for that? -- if you could. that is an aspiration to _ for that? -- if you could. that is an aspiration to deliver- for that? -- if you could. that is an aspiration to deliver over - for that? -- if you could. that is an aspiration to deliver over a i an aspiration to deliver over a period — an aspiration to deliver over a period of— an aspiration to deliver over a period of time _ an aspiration to deliver over a period of time but _ an aspiration to deliver over a period of time but a _ an aspiration to deliver over a period of time but a lot - an aspiration to deliver over a period of time but a lot of- an aspiration to deliver over a i period of time but a lot of work needs— period of time but a lot of work needs to — period of time but a lot of work needs to be _ period of time but a lot of work needs to be done _ period of time but a lot of work needs to be done to— period of time but a lot of work| needs to be done to implement period of time but a lot of work - needs to be done to implement that. but first— needs to be done to implement that. but first we _ needs to be done to implement that. but first we need _ needs to be done to implement that. but first we need to _ needs to be done to implement that. but first we need to put _ needs to be done to implement that. but first we need to put recovery- but first we need to put recovery first and — but first we need to put recovery first and we _ but first we need to put recovery first and we need _

but first we need to put recovery first and we need to _ but first we need to put recovery first and we need to invest - but first we need to put recovery first and we need to invest in- first and we need to invest in mental— first and we need to invest in mental health— first and we need to invest in mental health services - first and we need to invest in mental health services whichj first and we need to invest in. mental health services which we first and we need to invest in- mental health services which we are allocating _ mental health services which we are allocating £400 _ mental health services which we are allocating £400 million _ mental health services which we are allocating £400 million out - mental health services which we are allocating £400 million out of - mental health services which we are allocating £400 million out of the i allocating £400 million out of the £2.5 allocating £400 million out of the £25 billion — allocating £400 million out of the £2.5 billion extra _ allocating £400 million out of the £2.5 billion extra for _ allocating £400 million out of the £2.5 billion extra for the - allocating £400 million out of the £2.5 billion extra for the nhs, - allocating £400 million out of the | £2.5 billion extra for the nhs, and we want _ £2.5 billion extra for the nhs, and we want to— £2.5 billion extra for the nhs, and we want to invest _ £2.5 billion extra for the nhs, and we want to invest in _ £2.5 billion extra for the nhs, and we want to invest in 3500 - £2.5 billion extra for the nhs, and we want to invest in 3500 more i we want to invest in 3500 more teachers — we want to invest in 3500 more teachers and _ we want to invest in 3500 more teachers and make _ we want to invest in 3500 more teachers and make sure - we want to invest in 3500 more teachers and make sure we - we want to invest in 3500 morel teachers and make sure we have we want to invest in 3500 more i teachers and make sure we have a youth _ teachers and make sure we have a youth job — teachers and make sure we have a youthjob guarantee _ teachers and make sure we have a youth job guarantee and _ teachers and make sure we have a youth job guarantee and all - teachers and make sure we have a youth job guarantee and all of - youth job guarantee and all of those~ — youth job guarantee and all of those... , , ., , , those... this is without putting up tax? absolutely. _ those... this is without putting up tax? absolutely. we _ those... this is without putting up tax? absolutely. we have - those... this is without putting up tax? absolutely. we have gone i those... this is without putting up| tax? absolutely. we have gone for the central — tax? absolutely. we have gone for the central option _ tax? absolutely. we have gone for the central option and _ tax? absolutely. we have gone for the central option and we - tax? absolutely. we have gone for the central option and we have - tax? absolutely. we have gone forj the central option and we have left sufficient _ the central option and we have left sufficient headroom _ the central option and we have left sufficient headroom to _ the central option and we have left sufficient headroom to be - the central option and we have left sufficient headroom to be able - the central option and we have left sufficient headroom to be able to i sufficient headroom to be able to accommodate _ sufficient headroom to be able to accommodate unexpected - sufficient headroom to be able toi accommodate unexpected events, sufficient headroom to be able to - accommodate unexpected events, in terms _ accommodate unexpected events, in terms of— accommodate unexpected events, in terms of pay — accommodate unexpected events, in terms of pay negotiations _ accommodate unexpected events, in terms of pay negotiations and - accommodate unexpected events, in terms of pay negotiations and otherl terms of pay negotiations and other items, _ terms of pay negotiations and other items, but— terms of pay negotiations and other items, but we — terms of pay negotiations and other items, but we also _ terms of pay negotiations and other items, but we also committing - terms of pay negotiations and other items, but we also committing £1 i items, but we also committing £1 billion— items, but we also committing £1 billion on— items, but we also committing £1 billion on top _ items, but we also committing £1 billion on top of— items, but we also committing £1 billion on top of the _ items, but we also committing £1 billion on top of the 2.5— items, but we also committing £1 billion on top of the 2.5 billion i billion on top of the 2.5 billion for the — billion on top of the 2.5 billion for the nhs, _ billion on top of the 2.5 billion for the nhs, for— billion on top of the 2.5 billion for the nhs, for other- billion on top of the 2.5 billion for the nhs, for other items i billion on top of the 2.5 billion i for the nhs, for other items like the issue — for the nhs, for other items like the issue about _ for the nhs, for other items like the issue about teaching - for the nhs, for other items like the issue about teaching and - for the nhs, for other items likei the issue about teaching and also nursery— the issue about teaching and also nursery education, _ the issue about teaching and also nursery education, to _ the issue about teaching and also nursery education, to extend - the issue about teaching and also nursery education, to extend it i the issue about teaching and also . nursery education, to extend it down to 2 euros— nursery education, to extend it down to 2 euros because _ nursery education, to extend it down to 2 euros because we _ nursery education, to extend it down to 2 euros because we think- nursery education, to extend it down to 2 euros because we think that - nursery education, to extend it down to 2 euros because we think that is i to 2 euros because we think that is the best— to 2 euros because we think that is the best thing _ to 2 euros because we think that is the best thing we _ to 2 euros because we think that is the best thing we can _ to 2 euros because we think that is the best thing we can do. - to 2 euros because we think that is the best thing we can do. —— - the best thing we can do. —— two—year—olds. _ the best thing we can do. -- two-year-olds._ the best thing we can do. -- two-year-olds. the best thing we can do. -- two- ear-olds. ., . , ., , ., two-year-olds. you are promising to rive awa two-year-olds. you are promising to give away more _ two-year-olds. you are promising to give away more free _ two-year-olds. you are promising to give away more free things. - two-year-olds. you are promising to give away more free things. this - two-year-olds. you are promising to give away more free things. this is i give away more free things. this is not free stuff. _ give away more free things. this is not free stuff, this _ give away more free things. this is not free stuff, this is _ give away more free things. this is not free stuff, this is about - not free stuff, this is about investing _

not free stuff, this is about investing in _ not free stuff, this is about investing in the _ not free stuff, this is about investing in the future, - not free stuff, this is about| investing in the future, and not free stuff, this is about i investing in the future, and if not free stuff, this is about - investing in the future, and if we are going — investing in the future, and if we are going to— investing in the future, and if we are going to have _ investing in the future, and if we are going to have a _ investing in the future, and if we are going to have a recovery- investing in the future, and if we are going to have a recovery in. investing in the future, and if we i are going to have a recovery in this country. _ are going to have a recovery in this country. we — are going to have a recovery in this country. we will— are going to have a recovery in this country, we will need _ are going to have a recovery in this country, we will need to _ are going to have a recovery in this country, we will need to invest - are going to have a recovery in this country, we will need to invest in l country, we will need to invest in the skills— country, we will need to invest in the skills and _ country, we will need to invest in the skills and talents _ country, we will need to invest in the skills and talents of - country, we will need to invest in the skills and talents of people i country, we will need to invest in i the skills and talents of people and we will— the skills and talents of people and we will not — the skills and talents of people and we will not do _ the skills and talents of people and we will not do that _ the skills and talents of people and we will not do that by— the skills and talents of people and we will not do that by increasing i we will not do that by increasing taxes _ we will not do that by increasing taxes at — we will not do that by increasing taxes at this _ we will not do that by increasing taxes at this time. _ we will not do that by increasing taxes at this time. consumer. taxes at this time. consumer confidence _ taxes at this time. consumer confidence is _ taxes at this time. consumer confidence is very— taxes at this time. consumer confidence is very fragile - taxes at this time. consumer confidence is very fragile soi taxes at this time. consumer. confidence is very fragile so we need _ confidence is very fragile so we need to— confidence is very fragile so we need to play— confidence is very fragile so we need to play it _ confidence is very fragile so we need to play it very— confidence is very fragile so we need to play it very carefully. i need to play it very carefully. invest — need to play it very carefully. invest in _ need to play it very carefully. invest in people _ need to play it very carefully. invest in people and - need to play it very carefully. invest in people and capital, i need to play it very carefully. - invest in people and capital, invest in the _ invest in people and capital, invest in the nhs — invest in people and capital, invest in the nhs. that _ invest in people and capital, invest in the nhs. that is _ invest in people and capital, invest in the nhs. that is the _ invest in people and capital, invest in the nhs. that is the best- invest in people and capital, invest in the nhs. that is the best way. invest in people and capital, invest in the nhs. that is the best way of| in the nhs. that is the best way of getting _ in the nhs. that is the best way of getting a _ in the nhs. that is the best way of getting a proper— in the nhs. that is the best way of getting a proper recovery. - in the nhs. that is the best way of getting a proper recovery. he - in the nhs. that is the best way of getting a proper recovery.- getting a proper recovery. he says it is not going — getting a proper recovery. he says it is not going to _ getting a proper recovery. he says it is not going to work. _ getting a proper recovery. he says it is not going to work. posterity i it is not going to work. posterity would be 100% _ it is not going to work. posterity would be 100% the _ it is not going to work. posterity would be 10096 the one - it is not going to work. posterity would be 10096 the one thing i it is not going to work. posterityj would be 10096 the one thing for it is not going to work. posterity - would be 10096 the one thing for any would be 100% the one thing for any government to do —— posterity. i agree with willie rennie, it is about investing in the future, and the characterisation of free stuff is wrong, you say dental charges, the year leading up to the pandemic about 4000 people ended up in a&e because they did not go to the dentist and they needed urgent dental care, so it is about preventative treatment. the scottish child payment gives children the best start in life and it makes them more able to learn in school and reduces some of the other problems.

this is about investing in the future and this is a moment in history where we need to do that, we need to resolve to build a better country out of the trauma of the past year and it has got to be affordable, but also hold and ambitious. and deliverable and that is what our manifesto is. the greens are keen on — is what our manifesto is. the greens are keen on increasing _ is what our manifesto is. the greens are keen on increasing taxes - is what our manifesto is. the greens are keen on increasing taxes for- are keen on increasing taxes for wealthy people and you have plans for a new wealth tax on those with assets of more than £1 million, something which it is unclear whether holyrood could do this, so why concentrate on things you can't do and do nothing with the income tax that you could actually generate more money from?— tax that you could actually generate more money from? there are a couple of wa s to more money from? there are a couple of ways to introduce _ more money from? there are a couple of ways to introduce the _ of ways to introduce the millionaires tax, with the cooperation of the uk government, but if they do not do that, which is likely, holyrood has had control of local taxation since 1999 and we could do creative things like that, much better than the existing council tax which is so disproportionately weighted towards low income households are paying

more than their share, so if we reformed local tax we think we could achieve a fairer wealth tax. all political parties around the circle here, in the scottish parliament, the finance committee, just before the finance committee, just before the end of the last session of the scottish parliament, they are great there needs to be a deeper look at all aspects of taxation —— they all agreed there needs to be. also a fairer distribution of wealth. i know you are interested in income tax and that is the easiest one to talk about. irate tax and that is the easiest one to talk about-— talk about. we have almost full control over _ talk about. we have almost full control over it. _ talk about. we have almost full control over it. but _ talk about. we have almost full control over it. but there - talk about. we have almost full control over it. but there is - talk about. we have almost full i control over it. but there is more breadth than _ control over it. but there is more breadth than this _ control over it. but there is more breadth than this in _ control over it. but there is more breadth than this in terms - control over it. but there is more breadth than this in terms of- control over it. but there is more| breadth than this in terms of tax, and we need to have more breadth if we are to invest for the future. the recovery phase from covid is a chance to have a greener scotland, but that won't happen without the investment for the future. let's look at the jobs we need after the age of oil and gas because we need to invest right now to create sustainable industries for the future and to give people the

opportunity to access the skills they need. i opportunity to access the skills they need-— opportunity to access the skills the need. ., ., ., ., ., they need. i want to move on from this but i'm — they need. i want to move on from this but i'm mindful, _ they need. i want to move on from this but i'm mindful, douglas - they need. i want to move on from | this but i'm mindful, douglas ross, i asked you how much it would cost to match uk tax will stop we have costed it in the manifesto that to match uk tax will stop we have costed it in the manifesto- costed it in the manifesto that we submitted- _ costed it in the manifesto that we submitted. how— costed it in the manifesto that we submitted. how much? _ costed it in the manifesto that we submitted. how much? it- costed it in the manifesto that we submitted. how much? it is- costed it in the manifesto that we i submitted. how much? it is towards the end of the _ submitted. how much? it is towards the end of the parliament _ submitted. how much? it is towards the end of the parliament and - submitted. how much? it is towards the end of the parliament and so i submitted. how much? it is towards| the end of the parliament and so i'm not going _ the end of the parliament and so i'm not going to — the end of the parliament and so i'm not going to commit to that because i not going to commit to that because i want _ not going to commit to that because i want to— not going to commit to that because i want to make sure that first of all we _ i want to make sure that first of all we say — i want to make sure that first of all we say we invest in the education system and invest in the nhs _ education system and invest in the nhs. :: :: education system and invest in the nhs. :: z: , ., education system and invest in the nhs. :: :: , ., ., education system and invest in the nhs. :::: , ., ., nhs. £400 billion, where would you find that money _ nhs. £400 billion, where would you find that money in _ nhs. £400 billion, where would you find that money in parliament? - nhs. £400 billion, where would you find that money in parliament? we i find that money in parliament? we have said this comes towards the end of parliament, if we can make sure the investment in our education and the investment in our education and the nhs _ the investment in our education and the nhs and infrastructure. do you know— the nhs and infrastructure. do you know how — the nhs and infrastructure. do you know how we can afford that? there is £58 _ know how we can afford that? there is £38 billion of capital spend unallocated in the scottish government's budget, why is that money— government's budget, why is that money sitting there? it is not rubbish — money sitting there? it is not rubbish when your own figures say that £58 — rubbish when your own figures say that £3.8 billion there which we can spend _ that £3.8 billion there which we can spend on— that £3.8 billion there which we can spend on capital infrastructure. if

she thinks— spend on capital infrastructure. if she thinks that is rubbish... capitalfunding capital funding cannot pay for tax cuts for the richest in society. every penny that we have is allocated to supporting the economy and society but i was going to pose and society but i was going to pose a question, if we got to the end of parliament and found we had £400 million of unallocated spare money, ifind it a really million of unallocated spare money, i find it a really strange million of unallocated spare money, ifind it a really strange priority to say that we would spend that giving a tax cut to people who own as much as we do, that would not be the right priority, coming out of a pandemic. i think we should spend it on lifting more children out of poverty and put it into the nhs and pay our social care workers more and not a tax cut for the wealthiest people in our society.- people in our society. nicola sturgeon — people in our society. nicola sturgeon seems _ people in our society. nicola sturgeon seems to - people in our society. nicola sturgeon seems to be - people in our society. nicola i sturgeon seems to be confused people in our society. nicola - sturgeon seems to be confused about the point _ sturgeon seems to be confused about the point i _ sturgeon seems to be confused about the point i was making, it was infrastructure and investment in the health— infrastructure and investment in the health service. £3.8 billion, so why don't _ health service. £3.8 billion, so why don't we _ health service. £3.8 billion, so why don't we allocate it now? she

health service. £3.8 billion, so why don't we allocate it now?— don't we allocate it now? she says it is allocated. _ don't we allocate it now? she says it is allocated. that _ don't we allocate it now? she says it is allocated. that is _ don't we allocate it now? she says it is allocated. that is the - don't we allocate it now? she says it is allocated. that is the end - don't we allocate it now? she says it is allocated. that is the end of. it is allocated. that is the end of the taxation topic, and i will move on to a different topic, completely different tack. it has been reported that boris johnson different tack. it has been reported that borisjohnson will announce a new royal yacht and he will do this within weeks and it will be named hms prince philip and initial reports estimate the cost of this will be around £200 million. are you in favour of this, patrick harvie? you can probably guess that i think this is an absurdity.— you can probably guess that i think this is an absurdity. why? the idea that ou this is an absurdity. why? the idea that you have _ this is an absurdity. why? the idea that you have families _ this is an absurdity. why? the idea that you have families relying on food banks but the highest priority for the uk government is a royal yacht, i think, for the uk government is a royal yacht, ithink, well, it beggars belief. i'm not sure i could find a polite broadcast of the word to describe the arrogance of that. this is also a uk government that wants to buy another generation of nuclear weapons and also a government that has just restarted dawn raids

against some of the most vulnerable asylum seekers in glasgow. the idea of is that this — asylum seekers in glasgow. the idea of is that this would _ asylum seekers in glasgow. the idea of is that this would promote - of is that this would promote british business and it would be used in trade fairs as well as being available for the royal family. used in trade fairs as well as being available for the royalfamily. i available for the royal family. i don't support it. why _ available for the royal family. i don't support it. why not? - available for the royal family. i don't support it. why not? i i available for the royal family. i i don't support it. why not? i don't think it is good _ don't support it. why not? i don't think it is good spending - don't support it. why not? i don't think it is good spending and - don't support it. why not? i don't think it is good spending and not| think it is good spending and not the best— think it is good spending and not the best way we can spend £200 million _ the best way we can spend £200 million and i could think of 500 other— million and i could think of 500 other things i would rather spend that money on.— that money on. even if it brought 'obs? i that money on. even if it brought jobs? i don't _ that money on. even if it brought jobs? i don't think _ that money on. even if it brought jobs? i don't think it _ that money on. even if it brought jobs? i don't think it will. - that money on. even if it brought| jobs? i don't think it will. because it will be built — jobs? i don't think it will. because it will be built somewhere - jobs? i don't think it will. because it will be built somewhere else i jobs? i don't think it will. because i it will be built somewhere else than the client? i it will be built somewhere else than the client? ., �* ,, ., , ., the client? i don't know why we are debatina the client? i don't know why we are debating this- _ the client? i don't know why we are debating this. it _ the client? i don't know why we are debating this. it is _ the client? i don't know why we are debating this. it is one _ the client? i don't know why we are debating this. it is one of— the client? i don't know why we are debating this. it is one of boris - debating this. it is one of boris johnson's — debating this. it is one of boris johnson's tricks to attract attention, but we should be focusing on things— attention, but we should be focusing on things which make a difference to the lives _ on things which make a difference to the lives of— on things which make a difference to the lives of people in scotland. | the lives of people in scotland. agree the lives of people in scotland. i agree with that, but also, from what i agree with that, but also, from what i understand — agree with that, but also, from what i understand, this _ agree with that, but also, from what i understand, this is _ agree with that, but also, from what i understand, this is about— agree with that, but also, from what i understand, this is about private i i understand, this is about private investment— i understand, this is about private investment and _ i understand, this is about private investment and seeking _ i understand, this is about private investment and seeking private i investment and seeking private support— investment and seeking private support to _ investment and seeking private support to build _ investment and seeking private support to build this _ investment and seeking private support to build this so - investment and seeking private support to build this so when i investment and seeking private support to build this so when itj support to build this so when it comes— support to build this so when it comes to — support to build this so when it comes to what _ support to build this so when it comes to what the _ support to build this so when it comes to what the uk - support to build this so when it - comes to what the uk government have done, _

comes to what the uk government have done they— comes to what the uk government have done they have — comes to what the uk government have done, they have supported _ comes to what the uk government have done, they have supported more - comes to what the uk government have done, they have supported more than. done, they have supported more than a million _ done, they have supported more than a millioniobs — done, they have supported more than a millioniobs in — done, they have supported more than a millionjobs in scotland _ done, they have supported more than a millionjobs in scotland through- a millionjobs in scotland through the furlough _ a millionjobs in scotland through the furlough scheme _ a millionjobs in scotland through the furlough scheme at _ a millionjobs in scotland through the furlough scheme at the - a millionjobs in scotland throughl the furlough scheme at the height a millionjobs in scotland through. the furlough scheme at the height of the furlough scheme at the height of the pandemic— the furlough scheme at the height of the pandemic and _ the furlough scheme at the height of the pandemic and the _ the furlough scheme at the height of the pandemic and the uk— the furlough scheme at the height of. the pandemic and the uk government invested _ the pandemic and the uk government invested £133— the pandemic and the uk government invested £13.3 billion _ the pandemic and the uk government invested £13.3 billion in _ the pandemic and the uk government invested £13.3 billion in scotland - invested £13.3 billion in scotland to get— invested £13.3 billion in scotland to get us— invested £13.3 billion in scotland to get us through _ invested £13.3 billion in scotland to get us through the _ invested £13.3 billion in scotland to get us through the pandemic. invested £13.3 billion in scotland i to get us through the pandemic and for the _ to get us through the pandemic and for the looming _ to get us through the pandemic and for the looming economic— to get us through the pandemic and for the looming economic crisis - for the looming economic crisis which _ for the looming economic crisis which is — for the looming economic crisis which is investment— for the looming economic crisis which is investment that - for the looming economic crisis which is investment that you i for the looming economic crisis. which is investment that you see from _ which is investment that you see from the — which is investment that you see from the uk _ which is investment that you see from the uk government. - which is investment that you see from the uk government. you i which is investment that you see from the uk government. you support the construction _ from the uk government. you support the construction of— from the uk government. you support the construction of the _ from the uk government. you support the construction of the ship? - from the uk government. you support the construction of the ship? i - the construction of the ship? i would look to see what the private aspect _ would look to see what the private aspect is — would look to see what the private aspect is it— would look to see what the private asect is. , ., ., _, ., aspect is. it should not come from ublic aspect is. it should not come from public money? _ aspect is. it should not come from public money? absolutely - aspect is. it should not come from public money? absolutely not. - aspect is. it should not come from i public money? absolutely not. nicola sturueon. public money? absolutely not. nicola sturgeon- this _ public money? absolutely not. nicola sturgeon. this is _ public money? absolutely not. nicola sturgeon. this is the _ public money? absolutely not. nicola sturgeon. this is the same _ public money? absolutely not. nicola sturgeon. this is the same uk - sturgeon. this is the same uk government — sturgeon. this is the same uk government that _ sturgeon. this is the same uk government that has - sturgeon. this is the same uk government that has ripped i sturgeon. this is the same uk| government that has ripped us sturgeon. this is the same uk - government that has ripped us out of the world's biggest trading market, causing misery for our businesses and coming up with a ludicrous idea. let's be blunt, the only reason borisjohnson has been talking about this is to try to distract attention from the sleaze that is swirling around him and his government, and everybody should see through it. frankly, it is one more reason why borisjohnson should not be the man making the decisions about the future of scotland.—

making the decisions about the future of scotland. anas sarwar. clearl a future of scotland. anas sarwar. clearly a stunt _ future of scotland. anas sarwar. clearly a stunt and _ future of scotland. anas sarwar. clearly a stunt and people - future of scotland. anas sarwar. clearly a stunt and people havel future of scotland. anas sarwar. - clearly a stunt and people have seen through— clearly a stunt and people have seen through this campaign, or the conservatives have left is cheap stunts _ conservatives have left is cheap stunts and gimmicks —— all. not stunts and gimmicks -- all. not chea -' stunts and gimmicks -- all. not cheap! that _ stunts and gimmicks -- all. not cheap! that is _ stunts and gimmicks -- all. not cheap! that is true. _ stunts and gimmicks -- all. not cheap! that is true. if _ stunts and gimmicks -- all. not cheap! that is true. if you - stunts and gimmicks -- all. not cheap! that is true. if you talk | cheap! that is true. if you talk about peeple _ cheap! that is true. if you talk about people in _ cheap! that is true. if you talk about people in the _ cheap! that is true. if you talk about people in the retail - cheap! that is true. if you talk - about people in the retail industry and the _ about people in the retail industry and the tourism industry, if there is £200 _ and the tourism industry, if there is £200 million going about let's put it— is £200 million going about let's put it into — is £200 million going about let's put it into businesses and keep them open and _ put it into businesses and keep them open and that people keep theirjobs or create _ open and that people keep theirjobs or create newjobs across the country _ or create newjobs across the country. that is where the money should _ country. that is where the money should up — i want to move on to the constitution. i am sure you are expected we would talk about independence and the future of the uk. the scottish conservatives, douglas ross, tweeted yesterday that an snp majority is a guarantee, a guarantee, of another independence referendum. in what way is it a guarantee?— referendum. in what way is it a auarantee? �* , ., ,, ., guarantee? because nicola sturgeon has been clear. _ guarantee? because nicola sturgeon has been clear, if— guarantee? because nicola sturgeon has been clear, if she _ guarantee? because nicola sturgeon has been clear, if she gets _ guarantee? because nicola sturgeon has been clear, if she gets a - has been clear, if she gets a majority, _ has been clear, if she gets a majority, she will take her eye off the bait— majority, she will take her eye off the bail for—

majority, she will take her eye off the ball for scott and's recovery, for rebuilding this country, and seek— for rebuilding this country, and seek another independence referendum.— seek another independence referendum. ,, ~ ., ., , ., referendum. seek to hold is not the same as guarantee. _ referendum. seek to hold is not the same as guarantee. she _ referendum. seek to hold is not the same as guarantee. she will - referendum. seek to hold is not the same as guarantee. she will seek. referendum. seek to hold is not the same as guarantee. she will seek a| same as guarantee. she will seek a section 30 order, _ same as guarantee. she will seek a section 30 order, which _ same as guarantee. she will seek a section 30 order, which the - same as guarantee. she will seek a section 30 order, which the prime l section 30 order, which the prime minister— section 30 order, which the prime minister says is the wrong thing to do right— minister says is the wrong thing to do right now in the middle of a pandemic, _ do right now in the middle of a pandemic, to divide the country all over again — pandemic, to divide the country all overagain. he pandemic, to divide the country all over again. he would then say the priority— over again. he would then say the priority has — over again. he would then say the priority has to be the recovery and nicola _ priority has to be the recovery and nicola sturgeon says she will go ahead _ nicola sturgeon says she will go ahead with an illegal, while cat referendum anyway. i ahead with an illegal, while cat referendum anyway.— ahead with an illegal, while cat referendum anyway. i am not sure that is what _ referendum anyway. i am not sure that is what she _ referendum anyway. i am not sure that is what she is _ referendum anyway. i am not sure that is what she is saying. - referendum anyway. i am not sure that is what she is saying. she - referendum anyway. i am not sure| that is what she is saying. she says if she wins a majority, there will be another independence referendum. borisjohnson says, no, they will not, because you will block it. she does not want _ not, because you will block it. she does not want another independence referendum when we should be united in our— referendum when we should be united in our recovery aims. the scottish goveminent— in our recovery aims. the scottish government has been quite clear that the other— government has been quite clear that the other route is to go ahead with the other route is to go ahead with the referendum.— the other route is to go ahead with the referendum. which one is right? if the snp the referendum. which one is right? if the sup have — the referendum. which one is right? if the snp have a _ the referendum. which one is right? if the snp have a majority _ the referendum. which one is right? if the snp have a majority after - if the snp have a majority after this election, will there be a

referendum or not?- this election, will there be a referendum or not? , ., ., referendum or not? they will hold an illeual, referendum or not? they will hold an illegal. wildcat _ referendum or not? they will hold an illegal, wildcat referendum. - referendum or not? they will hold an illegal, wildcat referendum. no, - referendum or not? they will hold an illegal, wildcat referendum. no, we| illegal, wildcat referendum. no, we will not _ illegal, wildcat referendum. no, we will not. you are now saying you will not. you are now saying you will not — will not. you are now saying you will not. �* . . will not. you are now saying you will not. �* , ., ., .., ., will not. let's hear it from nicola sturgeon- _ will not. let's hear it from nicola sturgeon- i— will not. let's hear it from nicola sturgeon. i know, _ will not. let's hear it from nicola sturgeon. i know, douglas, - will not. let's hear it from nicola sturgeon. i know, douglas, your| sturgeon. i know, douglas, your camaian sturgeon. i know, douglas, your campaign ism. _ sturgeon. i know, douglas, your campaign is. . . , perhaps - sturgeon. i know, douglas, your campaign is. . . , perhaps you - sturgeon. i know, douglas, your| campaign is..., perhaps you have sturgeon. i know, douglas, your- campaign is..., perhaps you have not had the most successful campaign, but do not issue smears and tell untruths about my position and what i have said. i have said consistently all along, sometimes to criticism from people on my own side of the argument, that i would not countenance an illegal referendum because it would not deliver independence. i want scotland in the fullness of time to become an independent country and i will be responsible about that and i will build and win the case for independence through patient persuasion of people across the country. it persuasion of people across the count . �* ., , persuasion of people across the count . 1, , . persuasion of people across the count. ,., , persuasion of people across the count. ,., ., persuasion of people across the count. ., can country. if boris and says no... can ou let country. if boris and says no... can you let me — country. if boris and says no... can you let me finish? _ country. if boris and says no... can you let me finish? if _ country. if boris and says no... can you let me finish? if he _ country. if boris and says no... can you let me finish? if he says - country. if boris and says no... can you let me finish? if he says no - country. if boris and says no... can you let me finish? if he says no to | you let me finish? if he says no to auareein you let me finish? if he says no to agreeing to _ you let me finish? if he says no to agreeing to a _ you let me finish? if he says no to agreeing to a referendum - you let me finish? if he says no to agreeing to a referendum and - you let me finish? if he says no to | agreeing to a referendum and your bill does not survive any legal

challenge, does that mean it will not happen in the next parliament? we are getting ahead of ourselves. i am asking people tonight to re—elect me as first minister. if people re—elect me on thursday as first minister i will be behind my desk on monday taking the decisions to steer this country through the pandemic. that is my priority, it is what i have focused almost every waking moment on over the past year and thatis moment on over the past year and that is what i will focus on. but ou are that is what i will focus on. but you are also — that is what i will focus on. but you are also seeking a mandate for another independence referendum. when we are out of the crisis, yes, saying to all of the people in scotland that it should be all of them who decide whether or not scotland becomes an independent country. it is not a decision for me or douglas or any of the other politicians. or douglas or any of the other politicians-— or douglas or any of the other oliticians. ,., , .., .,. politicians. somebody contacted me earlier today — politicians. somebody contacted me earlier today and _ politicians. somebody contacted me earlier today and said _ politicians. somebody contacted me earlier today and said i _ politicians. somebody contacted me earlier today and said i would - politicians. somebody contacted me earlier today and said i would like i earlier today and said i would like nicola sturgeon to keep being the first minister.— nicola sturgeon to keep being the first minister. ., ,, ., , first minister. vote snp on thursday and that is the _ first minister. vote snp on thursday and that is the way _ first minister. vote snp on thursday and that is the way to _ first minister. vote snp on thursday and that is the way to secure - first minister. vote snp on thursday

and that is the way to secure it. - and that is the way to secure it. what they also said is they do not want another independence referendum during the period of the recovery. what are they meant to do if they want you but not independence? thea;t want you but not independence? they should vote for _ want you but not independence? tie: should vote for me on want you but not independence? ti9:1: should vote for me on thursday want you but not independence? ti91: should vote for me on thursday safe in the knowledge that getting us through this crisis is my priority. and then you will claim their vote is part of the mandate for independence.— is part of the mandate for independence. is part of the mandate for inde endence. ~ .., ., is part of the mandate for indeendence. ~ .., ., ., independence. when we come out of this crisis and — independence. when we come out of this crisis and what _ independence. when we come out of this crisis and what we _ independence. when we come out of this crisis and what we recover - independence. when we come out of this crisis and what we recover to - this crisis and what we recover to is not some kind of abstract, neutral concept. we have to decide ourselves what kind of a country we want to be and what are the values we want to underpin that recovery. do you want to build it in the image of borisjohnson and douglas ross, or do we want to put fairness and equality and building a prosperous scotland? a! equality and building a prosperous scotland? : , , ., equality and building a prosperous scotland? , , ., , ., scotland? a very straight question that nicola sturgeon _ scotland? a very straight question that nicola sturgeon has - scotland? a very straight question that nicola sturgeon has refused l scotland? a very straight question | that nicola sturgeon has refused to answer~ _ that nicola sturgeon has refused to answer. what is the route to a second — answer. what is the route to a second independence referendum if the prime _ second independence referendum if the prime minister refuses a section 30 order? _ the prime minister refuses a section 30 order? the the prime minister refuses a section 30 order? , ., , : ., ,

30 order? the question is... what is the route to — 30 order? the question is... what is the route to a _ 30 order? the question is... what is the route to a second _ 30 order? the question is... what is the route to a second independence | the route to a second independence referendum if you are saying that the people in scotland voting for parties that do not have that in their manifesto and that is not the root? you are refusing to accept a basic principle of democracy and you should be on the spot over that, not me. i am saying if they do not vote for it, it will not happen. if they do vote for it, what democrat can possibly say that any politician has the right to stand in the way? what the right to stand in the way? what is the democratic _ the right to stand in the way? what is the democratic route _ the right to stand in the way? what is the democratic route if _ the right to stand in the way? what is the democratic route if it is not people waiting for independence? it is not about what you want. people waiting for independence? it is not about what you want. we - people waiting for independence? it| is not about what you want. we have heard a lot — is not about what you want. we have heard a lot from _ is not about what you want. we have heard a lot from nicola _ is not about what you want. we have heard a lot from nicola sturgeon - heard a lot from nicola sturgeon tonight, — heard a lot from nicola sturgeon tonight, but we have not had an answer~ — tonight, but we have not had an answer. what is her route to a second — answer. what is her route to a second independence referendum if there is— second independence referendum if there is not a section 30 order? it is a witdcat— there is not a section 30 order? it is a wildcat referendum. nhs is a wildcat referendum. anas sarwar. is a wildcat referendum. anas sarwar- it _ is a wildcat referendum. anas sarwar. itjust _ is a wildcat referendum. anas sarwar. itjust emphasises - is a wildcat referendum. anas| sarwar. itjust emphasises the sarwar. it just emphasises the confusion _ sarwar. it just emphasises the confusion and _ sarwar. it just emphasises the confusion and douglas - sarwar. it just emphasises the confusion and douglas ross'sl confusion and douglas ross's campaign _ confusion and douglas ross's campaign last— confusion and douglas ross's

campaign. last night- confusion and douglas ross's campaign. last night he - confusion and douglas ross's campaign. last night he wasi confusion and douglas ross's - campaign. last night he was saying it guarantees — campaign. last night he was saying it guarantees a _ campaign. last night he was saying it guarantees a referendum - campaign. last night he was saying it guarantees a referendum and - campaign. last night he was sayingi it guarantees a referendum and now he is saying — it guarantees a referendum and now he is saying the _ it guarantees a referendum and now he is saying the prime _ it guarantees a referendum and now he is saying the prime minister- he is saying the prime minister would — he is saying the prime minister would block— he is saying the prime minister would block it _ he is saying the prime minister would block it anyway. - he is saying the prime ministeri would block it anyway. douglas' approach — would block it anyway. douglas' approach is _ would block it anyway. douglas' approach is a _ would block it anyway. douglas' approach is a gift _ would block it anyway. douglas' approach is a gift to _ would block it anyway. douglas' approach is a gift to the - would block it anyway. douglas' approach is a gift to the snp . would block it anyway. douglas'l approach is a gift to the snp and would block it anyway. douglas' i approach is a gift to the snp and if he leads— approach is a gift to the snp and if he leads the — approach is a gift to the snp and if he leads the opposition _ approach is a gift to the snp and if he leads the opposition after - approach is a gift to the snp and if he leads the opposition after this i he leads the opposition after this election. — he leads the opposition after this election. he— he leads the opposition after this election, he will— he leads the opposition after this election, he will be _ he leads the opposition after this election, he will be the _ he leads the opposition after this election, he will be the gift - he leads the opposition after this election, he will be the gift that. election, he will be the gift that keeps _ election, he will be the gift that keeps on — election, he will be the gift that keeps on giving _ election, he will be the gift that keeps on giving. the _ election, he will be the gift that keeps on giving. the important| election, he will be the gift that - keeps on giving. the important point around _ keeps on giving. the important point around the _ keeps on giving. the important point around the recovery, _ keeps on giving. the important point around the recovery, which- keeps on giving. the important point around the recovery, which nicola i around the recovery, which nicola sturgeon — around the recovery, which nicola sturgeon has _ around the recovery, which nicola sturgeon has talked _ around the recovery, which nicola sturgeon has talked about, - around the recovery, which nicola sturgeon has talked about, it - around the recovery, which nicola sturgeon has talked about, it is l sturgeon has talked about, it is reatiy— sturgeon has talked about, it is really important. _ sturgeon has talked about, it is really important.— sturgeon has talked about, it is really important. there is confusion around labour's _ really important. there is confusion around labour's position _ really important. there is confusion around labour's position as - really important. there is confusion around labour's position as well. in| around labour's position as well. in terms of the trade union movement, they say holyrood should decide. if there is a majority at holyrood and if holyrood decides they should be another independence referendum, it should happen. that is good enough for the trade union movement, why is it not good enough for labour? thea;t it not good enough for labour? they have caveats — it not good enough for labour? they have caveats to _ it not good enough for labour? they have caveats to that _ it not good enough for labour? they have caveats to that position. i do not support — have caveats to that position. i do not support a _ have caveats to that position. i do not support a referendum, - have caveats to that position. i do not support a referendum, i- have caveats to that position. i do not support a referendum, i do i have caveats to that position. i dol not support a referendum, i do not support— not support a referendum, i do not support independence _ not support a referendum, i do not support independence and - not support a referendum, i do not support independence and i- not support a referendum, i do not support independence and i want l support independence and i want people _ support independence and i want people to — support independence and i want people to choose _ support independence and i want people to choose something - people to choose something different _ people to choose something different i— people to choose something different. i want _ people to choose something different. i want them - people to choose something different. i want them to- people to choose something - different. i want them to choose the focus _ different. i want them to choose the focus on _ different. i want them to choose the focus on the — different. i want them to choose the focus on the national _ different. i want them to choose the focus on the national recovery- different. i want them to choose the focus on the national recovery and l focus on the national recovery and that is— focus on the national recovery and that is what— focus on the national recovery and that is what i_ focus on the national recovery and

that is what i want _ focus on the national recovery and that is what i want them _ focus on the national recovery and that is what i want them to - focus on the national recovery and| that is what i want them to choose on thursday — that is what i want them to choose on thursday if— that is what i want them to choose on thursday. if they _ that is what i want them to choose on thursday. if they want - that is what i want them to choose on thursday. if they want to - that is what i want them to choose on thursday. if they want to focus| on thursday. if they want to focus on thursday. if they want to focus on their— on thursday. if they want to focus on theiriobs, _ on thursday. if they want to focus on theirjobs, their— on thursday. if they want to focus on theirjobs, their children - on theirjobs, their children because _ on theirjobs, their children because my— on theirjobs, their children because my education, - on theirjobs, their children| because my education, that on theirjobs, their children i because my education, that is on theirjobs, their children - because my education, that is on the ballot, _ because my education, that is on the ballot, and _ because my education, that is on the ballot, and you — because my education, that is on the ballot, and you only _ because my education, that is on the ballot, and you only get _ because my education, that is on the ballot, and you only get that - because my education, that is on the ballot, and you only get that option i ballot, and you only get that option if you _ ballot, and you only get that option if you vote — ballot, and you only get that option if you vote for — ballot, and you only get that option if you vote for labour. _ ballot, and you only get that option if you vote for labour. if— ballot, and you only get that option if you vote for labour.— if you vote for labour. if nicola sturueon if you vote for labour. if nicola sturgeon and _ if you vote for labour. if nicola sturgeon and patrick— if you vote for labour. if nicola sturgeon and patrick harvie . if you vote for labour. if nicola | sturgeon and patrick harvie end if you vote for labour. if nicola - sturgeon and patrick harvie end up having a majority?— sturgeon and patrick harvie end up having a majority? having a ma'ority? douglas is saying if the having a majority? douglas is saying if the have having a majority? douglas is saying if they have a _ having a majority? douglas is saying if they have a majority, _ having a majority? douglas is saying if they have a majority, they - having a majority? douglas is saying if they have a majority, they are - if they have a majority, they are guaranteeing _ if they have a majority, they are guaranteeing a _ if they have a majority, they are guaranteeing a referendum. - if they have a majority, they are j guaranteeing a referendum. but if they have a majority, they are - guaranteeing a referendum. but they are in— guaranteeing a referendum. but they are in government _ guaranteeing a referendum. but they are in government in _ guaranteeing a referendum. but they are in government in the _ guaranteeing a referendum. but they are in government in the uk. - guaranteeing a referendum. but they are in government in the uk. might. are in government in the uk. might ou are in government in the uk. might you change — are in government in the uk. might you change your — are in government in the uk. might you change your position? - are in government in the uk. might you change your position? i - are in government in the uk. might you change your position? i will- are in government in the uk. mightj you change your position? i will not chance m you change your position? i will not change my mind. — you change your position? i will not change my mind, i _ you change your position? i will not change my mind, i do _ you change your position? i will not change my mind, i do not - you change your position? i will not change my mind, i do not support. change my mind, i do not support independence _ change my mind, i do not support independence. you _ change my mind, i do not support independence.— independence. you will vote no at every turn — independence. you will vote no at every turn throughout _ independence. you will vote no at every turn throughout the - independence. you will vote no at every turn throughout the next. every turn throughout the next parliament? taste every turn throughout the next parliament?— every turn throughout the next parliament? ., ., parliament? we want to focus on the national recovery. _ parliament? we want to focus on the national recovery. about _ parliament? we want to focus on the national recovery. about the - national recovery. about the recovery, _ national recovery. about the recovery, nicola _ national recovery. about the recovery, nicola sturgeon i national recovery. about the i recovery, nicola sturgeon has national recovery. about the - recovery, nicola sturgeon has led us through— recovery, nicola sturgeon has led us through the — recovery, nicola sturgeon has led us through the pandemic _ recovery, nicola sturgeon has led us through the pandemic and _ recovery, nicola sturgeon has led us through the pandemic and people i recovery, nicola sturgeon has led usl through the pandemic and people can make the _ through the pandemic and people can make the case — through the pandemic and people can make the case about _ through the pandemic and people can make the case about whether- through the pandemic and people can make the case about whether she - through the pandemic and people canj make the case about whether she has done that— make the case about whether she has done that well— make the case about whether she has done that well or— make the case about whether she has done that well or not. _ make the case about whether she has done that well or not. but _ make the case about whether she has done that well or not. but you - done that well or not. but you cannot— done that well or not. but you cannot lead _ done that well or not. but you cannot lead the _ done that well or not. but you cannot lead the recovery - done that well or not. but you cannot lead the recovery and i done that well or not. but you - cannot lead the recovery and lead half the _ cannot lead the recovery and lead half the country _ cannot lead the recovery and lead half the country at _ cannot lead the recovery and lead half the country at the _ cannot lead the recovery and lead half the country at the same - cannot lead the recovery and lead | half the country at the same time. you either— half the country at the same time. you either need _ half the country at the same time. you either need all— half the country at the same time. you either need all the _ half the country at the same time. you either need all the country- half the country at the same time. i you either need all the country and take us— you either need all the country and take us through _ you either need all the country and take us through the _ you either need all the country and take us through the recovery, - you either need all the country and take us through the recovery, not i take us through the recovery, not half the _ take us through the recovery, not half the recovery. _ take us through the recovery, not half the recovery. you _ take us through the recovery, not half the recovery. you cannot- take us through the recovery, not| half the recovery. you cannot lead take us through the recovery, not. half the recovery. you cannot lead a

recovery— half the recovery. you cannot lead a recovery and — half the recovery. you cannot lead a recovery and an _ half the recovery. you cannot lead a recovery and an independence - recovery and an independence campaign _ recovery and an independence campaign as— recovery and an independence campaign as well. _ recovery and an independence campaign as well. i _ recovery and an independence campaign as well. [do - recovery and an independence campaign as well.— recovery and an independence campaign as well. i do not want this to be the argument _ campaign as well. i do not want this to be the argument for— campaign as well. i do not want this to be the argument for the - campaign as well. i do not want this to be the argument for the next - campaign as well. i do not want this to be the argument for the next five years _ to be the argument for the next five years i_ to be the argument for the next five years. i want to focus on the recovery _ years. i want to focus on the recovery. the people who are waiting for mental _ recovery. the people who are waiting for mental health treatment deserved better~ _ for mental health treatment deserved better. the people who are desperate for a job— better. the people who are desperate for a job deserve better than this. the children who have lost out on education. — the children who have lost out on education, and the scottish education, and the scottish education system have plummeted dow“, _ education system have plummeted down, they deserve better than all of this _ down, they deserve better than all of this. that is what will happen if we get _ of this. that is what will happen if we get a — of this. that is what will happen if we get a nationalist majority later on this— we get a nationalist majority later on this week. despite nicola's best intentions, — on this week. despite nicola's best intentions, there will be all the different— intentions, there will be all the different factions of the nationalist movement arguing amongst themselves about the timing, the border, _ themselves about the timing, the border, the currency, all of those things— border, the currency, all of those things will— border, the currency, all of those things will be the focus of the parliament for the next five years. if parliament for the next five years. if you _ parliament for the next five years. if you vote — parliament for the next five years. if you vote liberal democrat, you can put _ if you vote liberal democrat, you can put all— if you vote liberal democrat, you can put all that behind us and focus on the _ can put all that behind us and focus on the recovery. that is the difference our votes will make in the next — difference our votes will make in the next election. | difference our votes will make in the next election.— the next election. i genuinely do not see how _ the next election. i genuinely do not see how we _ the next election. i genuinely do not see how we can _ the next election. i genuinely do not see how we can focus - the next election. i genuinely do not see how we can focus on - the next election. i genuinely do not see how we can focus on the j not see how we can focus on the recovery and reshape scotland's recovery and reshape scotland's recovery if we do not at least ask

the people a question, whether we are best placed to achieve a fair, more equal society and to respond to the climate and nature in emergencies. the way we run our economy is literally ripping apart our life support system. how can we respond to that challenge as part of boris johnson's brexit respond to that challenge as part of borisjohnson's brexit britain? or are we best placed to respond as a small, independent country looking to get back into europe. shill small, independent country looking to get back into europe.— to get back into europe. all the ener: to get back into europe. all the energy and _ to get back into europe. all the energy and time _ to get back into europe. all the energy and time and _ to get back into europe. all the energy and time and effort - to get back into europe. all the energy and time and effort that to get back into europe. all the - energy and time and effort that went into the campaign in the run—up to 2014, can we really afford all of that when we have got all these big challenges to face recovering from coronavirus? i challenges to face recovering from coronavirus?— coronavirus? i do not think we can afford to pass _ coronavirus? i do not think we can afford to pass up _ coronavirus? i do not think we can afford to pass up the _ coronavirus? i do not think we can afford to pass up the opportunity. coronavirus? i do not think we can l afford to pass up the opportunity to shape our own recovery. this is, as others have said right across the political spectrum, there is a recognition, this is a moment of incredible opportunity to decide what kind of country will emerge from covid. if we do not ask the big

questions about where power lies, we will be unable to face those questions with the creativity that i know scotland is capable of. staying on the constitution, _ know scotland is capable of. staying on the constitution, i _ know scotland is capable of. staying on the constitution, i am _ know scotland is capable of. staying on the constitution, i am not - know scotland is capable of. staying on the constitution, i am not sure i on the constitution, i am not sure we are getting far about the principle about whether or not they should be an independence referendum because we have not heard new arguments this evening, but i would like to look at one of the practicalities. an independent scotland would need to have a currency. nicola sturgeon, this was a big issue in the last referendum. has the snp got a settled plan for what currency an independent scotland would use? the what currency an independent scotland would use?- what currency an independent scotland would use? the snp passed its oli scotland would use? the snp passed its policy on — scotland would use? the snp passed its policy on that _ scotland would use? the snp passed its policy on that a _ scotland would use? the snp passed its policy on that a couple _ scotland would use? the snp passed its policy on that a couple of- scotland would use? the snp passed its policy on that a couple of years i its policy on that a couple of years ago now when the growth commission report was published, that we would use stirling for as long as necessary. the policy would then be to move to an independent scottish currency when the economic conditions, the fiscal conditions, theissues conditions, the fiscal conditions, the issues around trading and stability, were right to do that.

have you an idea of how long that process would be? ihlat have you an idea of how long that process would be?— process would be? not fixed. we would have _ process would be? not fixed. we would have to _ process would be? not fixed. we would have to judge _ process would be? not fixed. we would have to judge that. - process would be? not fixed. we would have to judge that. the - process would be? not fixed. we - would have to judge that. the growth commission set out tests based on economic stability, the trading cycle, the fiscal position, the interests of consumers. can i make this fundamental point right now? we are voting in a scottish parliament election on thursday for a scottish government. we are not voting yes or no to independence. once the crisis has passed and we are in recovery i want us to choose our own future. that is what people want to see, how sure you are about the case for independence. just sure you are about the case for independence.— sure you are about the case for independence. just as happened in 2014, what independence. just as happened in 2014. what did — independence. just as happened in 2014, what did not _ independence. just as happened in 2014, what did not happen - independence. just as happened in 2014, what did not happen in - independence. just as happened in 2014, what did not happen in the l 2014, what did not happen in the brexit referendum, we put forward a case and will put forward a case for independence. the others will put forward a case against independence and people will have the right to choose. this is not whether i want it or they don't want it. this is about what the people of scotland one. fin about what the people of scotland one. . . , ., ., .,

one. on the currency. i do not want to debate the _ one. on the currency. i do not want to debate the currency, _ one. on the currency. i do not want to debate the currency, i _ one. on the currency. i do not want to debate the currency, i want - one. on the currency. i do not want to debate the currency, i want to i to debate the currency, i want to debate _ to debate the currency, i want to debate the recovery. i know nicola does _ debate the recovery. i know nicola does not _ debate the recovery. i know nicola does not want to listen to no photos _ does not want to listen to no photos. she needs to listen to yes voters _ photos. she needs to listen to yes voters. listen to a man in grangemouth whose autistic son has not had _ grangemouth whose autistic son has not had treatment he needs in the last year~ — not had treatment he needs in the last ear. ~ ~ not had treatment he needs in the last ear. ~ . ., last year. willie rennie. we have had a variety _ last year. willie rennie. we have had a variety of _ last year. willie rennie. we have had a variety of different - last year. willie rennie. we have had a variety of different views. | last year. willie rennie. we have had a variety of different views. i | had a variety of different views. i know _ had a variety of different views. i know what — had a variety of different views. i know what nicola _ had a variety of different views. i know what nicola says _ had a variety of different views. i know what nicola says about - had a variety of different views. i know what nicola says about the | know what nicola says about the currency — know what nicola says about the currency we _ know what nicola says about the currency. we have _ know what nicola says about the currency. we have had _ know what nicola says about the currency. we have had a - know what nicola says about the currency. we have had a variety| know what nicola says about the i currency. we have had a variety of views _ currency. we have had a variety of views from — currency. we have had a variety of views from nicola's _ currency. we have had a variety of views from nicola's party - currency. we have had a variety of views from nicola's party and - currency. we have had a variety of views from nicola's party and alex salmond _ views from nicola's party and alex salmond and — views from nicola's party and alex salmond and others, _ views from nicola's party and alex salmond and others, including - views from nicola's party and alex salmond and others, including the greens— salmond and others, including the greens about _ salmond and others, including the greens about what _ salmond and others, including the greens about what the _ salmond and others, including the greens about what the currency i greens about what the currency should — greens about what the currency should be _ greens about what the currency should be it _ greens about what the currency should be. it shows— greens about what the currency should be. it shows what - greens about what the currency should be. it shows what the i should be. it shows what the deep-seated _ should be. it shows what the deep—seated argument- should be. it shows what the deep—seated argument will. should be. it shows what the. deep—seated argument will be should be. it shows what the - deep—seated argument will be for the next five _ deep—seated argument will be for the next five years — deep—seated argument will be for the next five years because _ deep—seated argument will be for the next five years because there - deep—seated argument will be for the next five years because there is - deep—seated argument will be for the next five years because there is no i next five years because there is no consensus, — next five years because there is no consensus, despite _ next five years because there is no consensus, despite the _ next five years because there is no consensus, despite the fact - next five years because there is no consensus, despite the fact it - next five years because there is no consensus, despite the fact it hasi consensus, despite the fact it has been _ consensus, despite the fact it has been the — consensus, despite the fact it has been the policy— consensus, despite the fact it has been the policy of _ consensus, despite the fact it has been the policy of the _ consensus, despite the fact it has been the policy of the snp - consensus, despite the fact it has been the policy of the snp for - been the policy of the snp for generations, _ been the policy of the snp for generations, they— been the policy of the snp for generations, they still- been the policy of the snp for generations, they still do - been the policy of the snp for generations, they still do not| been the policy of the snp for - generations, they still do not know what the _ generations, they still do not know what the currency _ generations, they still do not know what the currency will _ generations, they still do not know what the currency will be. - generations, they still do not know what the currency will be. i- generations, they still do not know what the currency will be. i think i what the currency will be. i think anas— what the currency will be. i think anas sarwar— what the currency will be. i think anas sarwar is _ what the currency will be. i think anas sarwar is right. _ what the currency will be. i think anas sarwar is right. i— what the currency will be. i think anas sarwar is right. i think- what the currency will be. i think i anas sarwar is right. i think people will be _ anas sarwar is right. i think people will be bemused _ anas sarwar is right. i think people will be bemused that _ anas sarwar is right. i think people will be bemused that in— anas sarwar is right. i think people will be bemused that in the - anas sarwar is right. i think people will be bemused that in the wake i anas sarwar is right. i think peoplel will be bemused that in the wake of one of— will be bemused that in the wake of one of the _ will be bemused that in the wake of one of the most _ will be bemused that in the wake of one of the most deepest _ will be bemused that in the wake ofj one of the most deepest pandemics will be bemused that in the wake of. one of the most deepest pandemics of this country— one of the most deepest pandemics of this country has — one of the most deepest pandemics of this country has ever _ one of the most deepest pandemics of this country has ever faced _ one of the most deepest pandemics of this country has ever faced we - one of the most deepest pandemics of

this country has ever faced we are - this country has ever faced we are debating — this country has ever faced we are debating yet — this country has ever faced we are debating yet again _ this country has ever faced we are debating yet again independence. | this country has ever faced we are . debating yet again independence. let us focus _ debating yet again independence. let us focus on _ debating yet again independence. let us focus on your— debating yet again independence. let us focus on your friend _ debating yet again independence. let us focus on your friend who _ us focus on your friend who contacted _ us focus on your friend who contacted you _ us focus on your friend who contacted you today - us focus on your friend who contacted you today who i us focus on your friend who i contacted you today who was us focus on your friend who - contacted you today who was puzzled about _ contacted you today who was puzzled about what _ contacted you today who was puzzled about what to — contacted you today who was puzzled about what to do. _ contacted you today who was puzzled about what to do. he _ contacted you today who was puzzled about what to do. he deserves - contacted you today who was puzzled about what to do. he deserves an - about what to do. he deserves an answer— about what to do. he deserves an answer and — about what to do. he deserves an answerand the _ about what to do. he deserves an answerand the answer— about what to do. he deserves an answer and the answer should - about what to do. he deserves an answer and the answer should be| about what to do. he deserves an - answer and the answer should be that the parliament — answer and the answer should be that the parliament is _ answer and the answer should be that the parliament is focused _ answer and the answer should be that the parliament is focused on - the parliament is focused on recovery _ the parliament is focused on recovery i— the parliament is focused on recovery-— the parliament is focused on recove . . , ., ., ., recovery. i am trying to ask about the currency _ recovery. i am trying to ask about the currency question. _ recovery. i am trying to ask about the currency question. let - recovery. i am trying to ask about the currency question. let me - recovery. i am trying to ask about l the currency question. let me bring in patrick harvie. your party has a distinctive position on this. your co—leader said keeping the pound would be catastrophic of a new country. what did she mean by that? what a lot of people who are undecided or maybe not convinced about independence want to know is what is it for? what is the purpose? for the green party the purpose of independence is giving people the ability to make big economic choices, about how we will invest in the future, about how we will take a different economic course than the unfair, unequal, broken economy that came before it covid that is managed by the uk government. without an independent currency you will lack

the ability to make those choices. how soon would you move to an independent scottish currency? it should be part of the transition process. if scotland votes for independence, we should start laying the groundwork immediately. iloathed independence, we should start laying the groundwork immediately. what is wronu the groundwork immediately. what is wron: with the groundwork immediately. what is wrong with that? _ the groundwork immediately. what is wrong with that? we _ the groundwork immediately. what is wrong with that? we have _ the groundwork immediately. what is wrong with that? we have to - the groundwork immediately. what is wrong with that? we have to break i wrong with that? we have to break these things _ wrong with that? we have to break these things when _ wrong with that? we have to break these things when we _ wrong with that? we have to break these things when we asked - wrong with that? we have to break| these things when we asked people wrong with that? we have to break i these things when we asked people to vote for— these things when we asked people to vote for independence. i have believed — vote for independence. i have believed in independence for all my aduu believed in independence for all my adult life _ believed in independence for all my adult life and i would love scotland to be _ adult life and i would love scotland to be independent tomorrow, but we have to _ to be independent tomorrow, but we have to do _ to be independent tomorrow, but we have to do this in a way that persuades people. i listen to people regardless of their constitutional views— regardless of their constitutional views and that is why i am taking an approach _ views and that is why i am taking an approach in — views and that is why i am taking an approach in this election that says if you _ approach in this election that says if you send — approach in this election that says if you send me back to the job of first _ if you send me back to the job of first minister, i will focus on getting — first minister, i will focus on getting us through the crisis. let me finish— getting us through the crisis. let me finish the point. anas sarwar says— me finish the point. anas sarwar says he — me finish the point. anas sarwar says he does not care whether people are yes _ says he does not care whether people are yes or— says he does not care whether people are yes or no, he wants to appeal to everybody — are yes or no, he wants to appeal to everybody. one of the very first things _ everybody. one of the very first things he — everybody. one of the very first things he did when he became leader was sacked _ things he did when he became leader was sacked a candidate because she said it _ was sacked a candidate because she said it was _ was sacked a candidate because she said it was up to the people of scotland — said it was up to the people of scotland to decide. that is the fundamental point. we have all got

different— fundamental point. we have all got different views on independence, but it is not— different views on independence, but it is not as _ different views on independence, but it is not as who should decide, it is the _ it is not as who should decide, it is the people of scotland. you want to keep using _ is the people of scotland. you want to keep using the _ is the people of scotland. you want to keep using the pound _ is the people of scotland. you want to keep using the pound possibly i to keep using the pound possibly without the consent of the uk. what if during that period when you are in transition, what if there was another crisis, another pandemic? what if there was a financial collapse and you needed to print lots of money to put it into the economy to keep it going? how would you do that? you would be using somebody else's currency and you did not have your own central bank. we would borrow money, the uk has done financial quantitative easing and has _ done financial quantitative easing and has had the worst of outcomes, so we _ and has had the worst of outcomes, so we would — and has had the worst of outcomes, so we would presumably not want to be in a _ so we would presumably not want to be in a position where we are baiting — be in a position where we are bailing out our banks, that is what we should — bailing out our banks, that is what we should all resolve to do, but scotland — we should all resolve to do, but scotland by any international comparison is a wealthy prosperous country— comparison is a wealthy prosperous country that does not fulfil its potential because we often have a government taking us in the wrong

direction — government taking us in the wrong direction. the idea that scotland atone _ direction. the idea that scotland alone amongst all these countries in the world _ alone amongst all these countries in the world is— alone amongst all these countries in the world is incapable of having a currency — the world is incapable of having a currency and borrowing money when it needs _ currency and borrowing money when it needs to _ currency and borrowing money when it needs to and _ currency and borrowing money when it needs to and steering and economic policy— needs to and steering and economic policy that— needs to and steering and economic policy that creates wealth and actually — policy that creates wealth and actually distributes that wealth more _ actually distributes that wealth more fairly is absolutely pie in the sky. more fairly is absolutely pie in the s , :, more fairly is absolutely pie in the sky. nicola sturgeon has said she is in favour of — sky. nicola sturgeon has said she is in favour of independence _ sky. nicola sturgeon has said she is in favour of independence her- sky. nicola sturgeon has said she is| in favour of independence her whole life, in favour of independence her whole life. but _ in favour of independence her whole life. but i_ in favour of independence her whole life, but i would _ in favour of independence her whole life, but i would then _ in favour of independence her whole life, but i would then think- in favour of independence her whole life, but i would then think of- in favour of independence her whole life, but i would then think of you i life, but i would then think of you could _ life, but i would then think of you could answer— life, but i would then think of you could answer a _ life, but i would then think of you could answer a basic _ life, but i would then think of you could answer a basic question - life, but i would then think of you i could answer a basic question about scotland's _ could answer a basic question about scotland's currency— could answer a basic question about scotland's currency if _ could answer a basic question about scotland's currency if you _ could answer a basic question about scotland's currency if you were - could answer a basic question about scotland's currency if you were to i scotland's currency if you were to separate — scotland's currency if you were to separate scotland _ scotland's currency if you were to separate scotland from _ scotland's currency if you were to separate scotland from the - scotland's currency if you were to separate scotland from the rest i scotland's currency if you were to| separate scotland from the rest of the uk _ separate scotland from the rest of the uk. �* ., , separate scotland from the rest of the uk-_ you - the uk. i've answered it. you haven't- _ the uk. i've answered it. you haven't. one _ the uk. i've answered it. you haven't. one of— the uk. i've answered it. you haven't. one of your - the uk. i've answered it. you haven't. one of your name i the uk. i've answered it. you| haven't. one of your name on the uk. i've answered it. you - haven't. one of your name on says we could _ haven't. one of your name on says we could still— haven't. one of your name on says we could still have — haven't. one of your name on says we could still have a _ haven't. one of your name on says we could still have a plastic— haven't. one of your name on says we could still have a plastic currency, - could still have a plastic currency, and if _ could still have a plastic currency, and if this— could still have a plastic currency, and if this goes _ could still have a plastic currency, and if this goes unchecked - could still have a plastic currency, and if this goes unchecked in- could still have a plastic currency, and if this goes unchecked in the| and if this goes unchecked in the next _ and if this goes unchecked in the next parliament, _ and if this goes unchecked in the next parliament, this _ and if this goes unchecked in the next parliament, this will- and if this goes unchecked in the next parliament, this will be - and if this goes unchecked in the next parliament, this will be the | next parliament, this will be the focus _ next parliament, this will be the focus and — next parliament, this will be the focus and not _ next parliament, this will be the focus and not the _ next parliament, this will be the focus and not the recovery- next parliament, this will be the focus and not the recovery from| next parliament, this will be the i focus and not the recovery from the pandemic— focus and not the recovery from the pandemic -- — focus and not the recovery from the pandemic -- one _ focus and not the recovery from the pandemic —— one of— focus and not the recovery from the pandemic —— one of your— focus and not the recovery from the pandemic —— one of your msps. - focus and not the recovery from the pandemic —— one of your msps. iiiiliiej pandemic -- one of your msps. we know uk pandemic —— one of your msps. know uk food and drink exports to the eu are down 40%, more than 40% in february year on figures for some scottish food exports are absolutely

disastrous. would you like to apologise to those especially in the fishing industry you promised a sea of opportunity to and they have been left with nothing? i of opportunity to and they have been left with nothing?— left with nothing? i have spoken to those in the _ left with nothing? i have spoken to those in the fishing _ left with nothing? i have spoken to those in the fishing industry - left with nothing? i have spoken to those in the fishing industry and i l those in the fishing industry and i want _ those in the fishing industry and i want the — those in the fishing industry and i want the communities _ those in the fishing industry and i want the communities in - those in the fishing industry and i want the communities in the - want the communities in the north-east _ want the communities in the north—east of— want the communities in the north—east of scotland - want the communities in the north—east of scotland and i want the communities in the - north—east of scotland and right across _ north—east of scotland and right across the — north—east of scotland and right across the country— north—east of scotland and right across the country to _ north—east of scotland and right across the country to recover. across the country to recover together— across the country to recover together after _ across the country to recover together after the _ across the country to recover together after the pandemicl across the country to recover. together after the pandemic but across the country to recover - together after the pandemic but the way we _ together after the pandemic but the way we don't — together after the pandemic but the way we don't support _ together after the pandemic but the way we don't support businesses . together after the pandemic but the way we don't support businesses is| way we don't support businesses is to put— way we don't support businesses is to put a _ way we don't support businesses is to put a barrier— way we don't support businesses is to put a barrier between _ way we don't support businesses is to put a barrier between the - way we don't support businesses is to put a barrier between the rest i way we don't support businesses is| to put a barrier between the rest of the uk _ to put a barrier between the rest of the uk because _ to put a barrier between the rest of the uk because scotland _ to put a barrier between the rest of the uk because scotland does- to put a barrier between the rest of. the uk because scotland does 60%... but there _ the uk because scotland does 60%... but there is— the uk because scotland does 60%... but there is a — the uk because scotland does 60%... but there is a barrier— the uk because scotland does 60%... but there is a barrier between - the uk because scotland does 60%... but there is a barrier between the - but there is a barrier between the uk and the eu single market and the scottish fishing industry is in a worse position on half of the key fish stocks, out of that happen? taste fish stocks, out of that happen? we need to do more with the fishing industry— need to do more with the fishing industry and _ need to do more with the fishing industry and make _ need to do more with the fishing industry and make sure - need to do more with the fishing industry and make sure the - need to do more with the fishing. industry and make sure the whole need to do more with the fishing - industry and make sure the whole of the north-east — industry and make sure the whole of the north—east comes _ industry and make sure the whole of the north—east comes together. - industry and make sure the whole of| the north—east comes together. hour the north-east comes together. how are ou the north-east comes together. how are you going — the north-east comes together. how are you going to _ the north—east comes together. are you going to fix that? the north-east comes together. how are you going to fix that? nicola - are you going to fix that? nicola sturueon are you going to fix that? nicola sturgeon is _ are you going to fix that? nicola sturgeon is going _ are you going to fix that? nicola sturgeon is going to _ are you going to fix that? nicola sturgeon is going to put - are you going to fix that? nicola sturgeon is going to put a - are you going to fix that? nicola | sturgeon is going to put a border between — sturgeon is going to put a border between scotland _ sturgeon is going to put a border between scotland and _ sturgeon is going to put a border between scotland and the - sturgeon is going to put a border between scotland and the rest i sturgeon is going to put a border between scotland and the rest of sturgeon is going to put a border- between scotland and the rest of the uk. between scotland and the rest of the uk so— between scotland and the rest of the uk so many— between scotland and the rest of the uk so manonbs_ between scotland and the rest of the uk. so manyjobs rely— between scotland and the rest of the uk. so manyjobs rely on— between scotland and the rest of the uk. so manyjobs rely on the - uk. so manyjobs rely on the seamless— uk. so manyjobs rely on the seamless border— uk. so manyjobs rely on the seamless border between . uk. so manyjobs rely on the - seamless border between scotland and the rest _ seamless border between scotland and the rest of _ seamless border between scotland and the rest of the — seamless border between scotland and the rest of the uk _ seamless border between scotland and the rest of the uk and _ seamless border between scotland and the rest of the uk and nicola _

the rest of the uk and nicola sturgeon _ the rest of the uk and nicola sturgeon and _ the rest of the uk and nicola sturgeon and her— the rest of the uk and nicola sturgeon and her candidates| the rest of the uk and nicola . sturgeon and her candidates are suggesting — sturgeon and her candidates are suggesting putting _ sturgeon and her candidates are suggesting putting a _ sturgeon and her candidates are suggesting putting a hard - sturgeon and her candidates are| suggesting putting a hard border there _ suggesting putting a hard border there. but— suggesting putting a hard border there. �* �* ., , there. but the brexit deal is causina there. but the brexit deal is causing problems _ there. but the brexit deal is causing problems right - there. but the brexit deal is| causing problems right now. there. but the brexit deal is i causing problems right now. i there. but the brexit deal is - causing problems right now. i have said we need _ causing problems right now. i have said we need to _ causing problems right now. i have said we need to continue _ causing problems right now. i have said we need to continue to - causing problems right now. i have said we need to continue to work. said we need to continue to work with the — said we need to continue to work with the industry— said we need to continue to work with the industry and _ said we need to continue to work with the industry and with - said we need to continue to worki with the industry and with others. not even — with the industry and with others. not even an— with the industry and with others. not even an apology. _ with the industry and with others. not even an apology. [— with the industry and with others. not even an apology.— not even an apology. i have said, for many months, _ not even an apology. i have said, for many months, i've _ not even an apology. i have said, for many months, i've been - not even an apology. i have said, i for many months, i've been working with the _ for many months, i've been working with the industry— for many months, i've been working with the industry and _ for many months, i've been working with the industry and i— for many months, i've been working with the industry and i will- with the industry and i will continue _ with the industry and i will continue to— with the industry and i will continue to do _ with the industry and i will continue to do that - with the industry and i will continue to do that but - with the industry and i will- continue to do that but there's a bigger— continue to do that but there's a bigger threat— continue to do that but there's a bigger threat to _ continue to do that but there's a bigger threat to scottish - continue to do that but there's a. bigger threat to scottish business if there _ bigger threat to scottish business if there is— bigger threat to scottish business if there is a — bigger threat to scottish business if there is a border— bigger threat to scottish business if there is a border between - if there is a border between scotland _ if there is a border between scotland and _ if there is a border between scotland and the _ if there is a border between scotland and the rest - if there is a border between scotland and the rest of - if there is a border betweenj scotland and the rest of the if there is a border between - scotland and the rest of the uk. the one thin scotland and the rest of the uk. one thing we all remember about brexit is the slogan, take back control, and that is pretty much all they had. personally, i would control, and that is pretty much all they had. personally, iwould not have been willing to take part in a 2014 yes campaign if that is all we had, we had a clear set of visions. our wide range of political perspectives across the spectrum of independence but the brexiteer is just sad that simplistic slogan, pretending that the uk would get all of the benefits and none of the downsides and everything would be fine —— brexiteersjust had. the

fine -- brexiteers 'ust had. the argument h fine -- brexiteers 'ust had. the argument of _ fine —— brexiteersjust had. the argument of independence is the same, to take control from the uk? no, it is about a far more honest set of challenges as well as opportunities, and to give just one example, the loss of freedom of movement, and for generation after generation after generation, young people in the countries of europe could be marched off to slaughter each other in fields and ditches and after the second world war an astonishing political achievement was made, perhaps the most astonishing of the modern age, getting the young people of the nations of europe the chance to make their own decisions about whether they want to travel and live and study and make a life across the eu and it tears at my heart to see the next generation deprived of that against the wishes of the people of scotland. ~ :. against the wishes of the people of scotland. ~ . , scotland. willie rennie and the lib dems made _ scotland. willie rennie and the lib dems made the _ scotland. willie rennie and the lib dems made the same _ scotland. willie rennie and the lib dems made the same argument i scotland. willie rennie and the lib dems made the same argument is| scotland. willie rennie and the lib - dems made the same argument is that you have now given up on the eu and you have now given up on the eu and you do not want to go back and you don't see independence as the route. what we are arguing for is that over

time we _ what we are arguing for is that over time we want to win people over to the merits— time we want to win people over to the merits of being part of the european _ the merits of being part of the european project, that is the right thing _ european project, that is the right thing to— european project, that is the right thing to do. what we are going to do is not _ thing to do. what we are going to do is not repeat the mistakes of brexit. — is not repeat the mistakes of brexit, with independence, because that is— brexit, with independence, because that is exactly what would happen, or the _ that is exactly what would happen, or the arguments about currency and borders, _ or the arguments about currency and borders, att— or the arguments about currency and borders, all those things would come back yet— borders, all those things would come back yet again and would repeat the mistakes, _ back yet again and would repeat the mistakes, but what we need to do is focus _ mistakes, but what we need to do is focus on _ mistakes, but what we need to do is focus on the — mistakes, but what we need to do is focus on the recovery, that means making _ focus on the recovery, that means making sure that we get the mental health— making sure that we get the mental health support and these are big issues, — health support and these are big issues, which we haven't covered tonight, — issues, which we haven't covered tonight, the mental health aspects of illness, — tonight, the mental health aspects of illness, the nhs is really struggling just now. we need an nhs recovery— struggling just now. we need an nhs recovery plan and we need to create 'obs recovery plan and we need to create jobs for _ recovery plan and we need to create jobs for people who are desperate for work. — jobs for people who are desperate for work, these are the issues people — for work, these are the issues people really care about. i don't want _ people really care about. idon't want to— people really care about. i don't want to spend the next five years... even _ want to spend the next five years... even the _ want to spend the next five years... even the climate emergency, we have not discussed that. these are enormous _ not discussed that. these are enormous challenges, why have we not talked _ enormous challenges, why have we not talked about them? these are the big challenges.

talked about them? these are the big challenues. . talked about them? these are the big challenues. , ., talked about them? these are the big challenues. , . , , , challenges. these are huge issues and they are _ challenges. these are huge issues and they are confronting _ challenges. these are huge issues and they are confronting people i and they are confronting people across _ and they are confronting people across our— and they are confronting people across our country _ and they are confronting people across our country and - and they are confronting people across our country and what - and they are confronting people across our country and what i'm saying _ across our country and what i'm saying is — across our country and what i'm saying is i— across our country and what i'm saying is i don't— across our country and what i'm saying is i don't care _ across our country and what i'm saying is i don't care whether. saying is i don't care whether people — saying is i don't care whether peopte vote _ saying is i don't care whether peopte vote yes _ saying is i don't care whether people vote yes or _ saying is i don't care whether people vote yes or no - saying is i don't care whether people vote yes or no and . saying is i don't care whether people vote yes or no and i i saying is i don't care whether- people vote yes or no and i don't care _ people vote yes or no and i don't care whether _ people vote yes or no and i don't care whether they— people vote yes or no and i don't care whether they vote _ people vote yes or no and i don't care whether they vote leave - people vote yes or no and i don't care whether they vote leave or. care whether they vote leave or remain, — care whether they vote leave or remain, tet's_ care whether they vote leave or remain, let's focus _ care whether they vote leave or remain, let's focus on - care whether they vote leave or remain, let's focus on the - care whether they vote leave or. remain, let's focus on the national recovery— remain, let's focus on the national recovery and — remain, let's focus on the national recovery and build _ remain, let's focus on the national recovery and build this _ remain, let's focus on the national recovery and build this country - remain, let's focus on the national| recovery and build this country that we all— recovery and build this country that we all love — recovery and build this country that we all love together. _ recovery and build this country that we all love together. that - recovery and build this country that we all love together. that is - recovery and build this country that we all love together. that is the i we all love together. that is the choice _ we all love together. that is the choice that _ we all love together. that is the choice that people _ we all love together. that is the choice that people face - we all love together. that is the choice that people face on - we all love together. that is the choice that people face on the l choice that people face on the ballot — choice that people face on the ballot paper, _ choice that people face on the ballot paper, and _ choice that people face on the ballot paper, and so— choice that people face on the ballot paper, and so use - choice that people face on the ballot paper, and so use both| choice that people face on the - ballot paper, and so use both votes for labour— ballot paper, and so use both votes for labour if — ballot paper, and so use both votes for labour if you _ ballot paper, and so use both votes for labour if you agree. _ ballot paper, and so use both votes for labour if you agree. $5- ballot paper, and so use both votes for labour if you agree.— for labour if you agree. as we approach _ for labour if you agree. as we approach the _ for labour if you agree. as we approach the end _ for labour if you agree. as we approach the end of— for labour if you agree. as we approach the end of the - for labour if you agree. as we - approach the end of the programme i want to ask you a little bit about covid and coming out of covid, and i wondered for each of you, when the covid restrictions have been lifted, what other things you are most looking forward to doing? things you have not been able to do over the last year. nicola sturgeon. hugging m mother last year. nicola sturgeon. hugging my mother and _ last year. nicola sturgeon. hugging my mother and father _ last year. nicola sturgeon. hugging my mother and father and - last year. nicola sturgeon. hugging my mother and father and my - last year. nicola sturgeon. hugging| my mother and father and my sister and my family. that is what i want to do more than anything. i can't wait to do it. and then having my family together and sing each other in the way we have not been able to do for years and that is probably is

what most people want to do —— seeing each other. i'm desperate to seeing each other. i'm desperate to see businesses trading properly and everyone going about their ordinary everyday lives but i think for most people it is that family connection and physical connection with people you love that we have missed the most. ~ i you love that we have missed the most-_ i agree. - you love that we have missed the most._ i agree, i. you love that we have missed the i most._ i agree, iwant most. willie rennie. i agree, iwant to sit down — most. willie rennie. i agree, iwant to sit down with _ most. willie rennie. i agree, iwant to sit down with my _ most. willie rennie. i agree, iwant to sit down with my parents - most. willie rennie. i agree, iwant to sit down with my parents who - most. willie rennie. i agree, iwant| to sit down with my parents who are now to sit down with my parents who are how irr— to sit down with my parents who are how in their— to sit down with my parents who are now in their80s, to sit down with my parents who are now in their 80s, have an evening meat— now in their 80s, have an evening meat with — now in their 80s, have an evening meal with my sisters, and the grahdkids _ meal with my sisters, and the grandkids and just have good fun. settishty, — grandkids and just have good fun. settishty, i— grandkids and just have good fun. selfishly, i want to take part in a masochistic hill race somewhere but that's— masochistic hill race somewhere but that'sjust _ masochistic hill race somewhere but that'sjust my personal masochistic hill race somewhere but that's just my personal pleasure, but what — that's just my personal pleasure, but what i — that's just my personal pleasure, but what i really want to do is spehd — but what i really want to do is spend time the family.- but what i really want to do is spend time the family. anas sarwar. i would spend time the family. anas sarwar. i would say — spend time the family. anas sarwar. i would say family, _ spend time the family. anas sarwar. i would say family, i _ spend time the family. anas sarwar. i would say family, i have _ spend time the family. anas sarwar. i would say family, i have not - i would say family, i have not hugged — i would say family, i have not hugged my— i would say family, i have not hugged my granny— i would say family, i have not hugged my granny for- i would say family, i have not hugged my granny for over i i would say family, i have not hugged my granny for over a i i would say family, i have not - hugged my granny for over a year and i've hugged my granny for over a year and we not— hugged my granny for over a year and we not seeri— hugged my granny for over a year and we not seen my— hugged my granny for over a year and i've not seen my dad _ hugged my granny for over a year and i've not seen my dad for— hugged my granny for over a year and i've not seen my dad for over- hugged my granny for over a year and i've not seen my dad for over a - hugged my granny for over a year and i've not seen my dad for over a year. i've not seen my dad for over a year and i_ i've not seen my dad for over a year and i want _ i've not seen my dad for over a year and i want to— i've not seen my dad for over a year and i want to see _ i've not seen my dad for over a year and i want to see my— i've not seen my dad for over a year and i want to see my loved - i've not seen my dad for over a year and i want to see my loved ones- i've not seen my dad for over a year| and i want to see my loved ones and that is— and i want to see my loved ones and that is what— and i want to see my loved ones and that is what i'm _ and i want to see my loved ones and that is what i'm desperately- and i want to see my loved ones and that is what i'm desperately looking| that is what i'm desperately looking forward _ that is what i'm desperately looking forward to— that is what i'm desperately looking forward to do — that is what i'm desperately looking forward to do. as _ that is what i'm desperately looking forward to do. as other— that is what i'm desperately looking forward to do. as other people - forward to do. as other people across— forward to do. as other people across the _ forward to do. as other people across the country— forward to do. as other people across the country are. - forward to do. as other people across the country are. it - forward to do. as other people across the country are. it has i forward to do. as other people - across the country are. it has been across the country are. it has been a really— across the country are. it has been a really emotional— across the country are. it has been a really emotional year— across the country are. it has been a really emotional year and - across the country are. it has been a really emotional year and there i a really emotional year and there has been — a really emotional year and there has been a — a really emotional year and there has been a lot— a really emotional year and there has been a lot of— a really emotional year and there has been a lot of trauma - a really emotional year and there has been a lot of trauma and - a really emotional year and there has been a lot of trauma and i. a really emotional year and there . has been a lot of trauma and i can't

wait to— has been a lot of trauma and i can't wait to rekindle _ has been a lot of trauma and i can't wait to rekindle those _ has been a lot of trauma and i can't wait to rekindle those friendships. i wait to rekindle those friendships. the last— wait to rekindle those friendships. the last time _ wait to rekindle those friendships. the last time i— wait to rekindle those friendships. the last time i was— wait to rekindle those friendships. the last time i was in— wait to rekindle those friendships. the last time i was in the - wait to rekindle those friendships. the last time i was in the building| the last time i was in the building that you are using for your studio tonight it was for a beer festival and if i got the chance to go to another beer festival i would be in absolute heaven and if i know my mother and father well enough they would come along with me. nicola sturueon would come along with me. nicola sturgeon says _ would come along with me. nicola sturgeon says that _ would come along with me. nicola sturgeon says that is _ would come along with me. nicola sturgeon says that is before - would come along with me. nicola sturgeon says that is before hugging close relatives? thea;r sturgeon says that is before hugging close relatives?— sturgeon says that is before hugging close relatives? they would be there with me, it would _ close relatives? they would be there with me, it would be _ close relatives? they would be there with me, it would be an _ close relatives? they would be there with me, it would be an increasingly| with me, it would be an increasingly physical experience to more sampling we did. ., physical experience to more sampling we did. physical experience to more sampling wedid. we physical experience to more sampling we did-_ we are - physical experience to more sampling we did._ we are going l we did. douglas ross. we are going to end on unity _ we did. douglas ross. we are going to end on unity because _ we did. douglas ross. we are going to end on unity because we - we did. douglas ross. we are going to end on unity because we all- we did. douglas ross. we are going to end on unity because we all want| to end on unity because we all want to end on unity because we all want to spend _ to end on unity because we all want to spend more time with our families, _ to spend more time with our families, hugging my parents, they have just _ families, hugging my parents, they have just been a couple of miles from _ have just been a couple of miles from where we stay and they have been _ from where we stay and they have been helping with our son but they have not— been helping with our son but they have not been into our house we have not been _ have not been into our house we have not been able to hug them to thank them _ not been able to hug them to thank them for— not been able to hug them to thank them for everything. we also expecting our second child next month— expecting our second child next month and i want make sure that when my wife _ month and i want make sure that when my wife gives birth we are there and we have _ my wife gives birth we are there and we have other people to welcome our new edition— we have other people to welcome our new edition into the house. thank

ou for new edition into the house. thank you for that- _ new edition into the house. thank you for that. when _ new edition into the house. thank you for that. when you _ new edition into the house. thank you for that. when you think- new edition into the house. thank you for that. when you think it. new edition into the house. thank| you for that. when you think it will all be over? —— when do you think. you are assuming i'm going to be re—elected as first minister but i'm hoping to be back behind the first minister's desk next week but that depends on the people of scotland. no date yet, then. thank you for debating with us. these politicians are counting down to the hours until the polls open, seven o'clock on thursday morning. they will be more coverage following this debate. from everyone here, good night. —— their macro will be more coverage.

you're watching bbc news — in the last few minutes — the leaders' of the main parties in scotland have made their closing arguments to the country ahead of the final day of campaigning. over the next half hour — we'll be speaking to voters and commentators about how the leaders fared. well, how and whether to ease restrictions

on international travel was the first subject to be debated,