this is bbc news. the headlines — 30 people, many of them young girls, have been killed in a militant attack at a school in the afghan capital, kabul. reports say there were multiple blasts as they were were leaving their school. the neighbourhood is home to the hazara minority, who are shia muslims. more than 50 palestinians have been injured in clashes with israeli forces injerusalem. they follow similar unrest on friday, during which 200 more needed medical treatment. tensions have been rising for weeks over proposals to evict palestinian families from their homes in a neighbourhood where israeli settlers are laying claim to the land. remnants of a large chinese space rocket are due to plunge back through the atmosphere in the next few hours. us and european tracking sites are monitoring the uncontrolled re—entry of the long march rocket, which was used last month to carry into orbit a section of the permanent chinese space station currently being built.

now on bbc news, it's hardtalk with stephen sackur. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. it barely merits international headlines these days, but america's guantanamo bay prison is still operational. a0 inmates are left. most have been held for nearly two decades without being charged or tried. for m years, my guest today, mohamedou ould salahi, was held there, having been identified as a high value al-qaeda terrorist. he was eventually released without charge. and now a film, the mauritanian, has been released telling his remarkable story. what is the guantanamo legacy?

mohamedou ould slahi in nouakchott, mauritania, welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much, stephen, for having me on your programme, and i salute your audience. well, it is a pleasure to have you on our programme. let's begin with how it feels to have a film made about your story and, in a sense, have your name become recognised around the world years after you were finally released from guantanamo bay, when perhaps your story should have been better known to the world, but almost nobody

had heard your name at all. does it feel weird that your story is now the subject of a film? i'm still trying to digest, but in a positive way, because this whole operation, you know, when i was kidnapped, was conducted in total darkness. no—one should know anything about this abduction. no—one should know anything about torture. anything about disappearance and this rendition from senegal to mauritania, tojordan, to bagram, to guantanamo, so i'm so happy now that the world is knowing the story. in the course of this interview, we'll talk in detail about what happened to you in guantanamo. but actually, before we begin that, ijust want to ask you today, as we see you sitting there in nouakchott, mauritania, do the memories

of your 14 years and two months in guantanamo bay, do they still haunt you? are they still alive in your mind? because it is more than four years now since you were released? that is correct, stephen. so, more than 14 years in guantanamo bay and nine months in... ..outside guantanamo bay in dark prison — secret prison, so it's over... ..it�*s almost 15 years after the 9/11 attack. and, of course, i still suffer. you know, when i was tortured, i was physically tortured, and mentally abused for a very long time. and, to this day, there are certain triggers that send me right away to the hospital. and ijust become, like, you know, very sick and they take me to the hospital

for several days when one of these triggers come. this is not easy. i mean, i was tortured, like, my ribs were broken and i lost my gall bladder. that was kaput. and to this day, i suffer from that. the irony is that no western country accepts, including the uk, to receive me for medical assistance. you used that word we became familiar with — "rendition" — to describe the way you were picked up, and you were sent through third countries, eventually to jordan and then on to guantanamo bay, where, of course, you were incarcerated. you would... that happened to you for a reason, mohamedou. it happened because the united states and its allies had intelligence that you were a member of al-qaeda and that you were an important figure in al-qaeda's international network, having contacts with other

al-qaeda operatives, first in canada and also in germany, in berlin. there was evidence. can you confirm to me that going back to your late teenage years and early 20s, you were a sworn member of al-qaeda? so, this all started in... ..late �*98 or early �*99 when i received a very harmless phone call from my cousin, and it was just a family call. he wanted me to send some money to his father, who was sick in nouakchott, and they needed the money. and then he lived in sudan. and this was very mundane. and the phone call is in the possession of the united states of america, i presume. and there is nothing to it, except what i'm telling you.

however, there was a problem. this call was conducted from a phone that belonged to osama bin laden himself. he then lived in sudan, and my cousin was a friend of osama bin laden. and so my... but i have to mention that the united states found out that my cousin was not involved in the 9/11 attack. i'm not here to interrogate you. god forbid! you've had plenty of that in your life. but i just want our audience to be clear that there were some, let us be honest, pretty extraordinary connections between you and men that we know became active terrorists in al-qaeda. just to name one — ramzi bin al—shibh. you had connections, direct connections to him in germany. these connections are real. how do you explain them? as to ramzi al—shibh, i don't know him. i saw him once. he came once to my house

to visit a friend. those are all the connection. there is no connections whatsoever with any type of organised crimes because i don't want to use "terrorism" because i don't believe in this word, because it's used to oppress political dissent in my part of the world. and it's abused to collectively punish innocent people. if you say a murderer, everybody would understand. and there are evidence. but if you say a terrorist, you can do everything you want with a person with no accountability whatsoever. mohamedou, you were known as prisoner 760... yes. ..at guantanamo. you were subject to enhanced interrogation techniques, which were signed off by the defense secretary, donald rumsfeld, himself. you've already used the word "torture" to me. what were the most difficult

experiences you went through? so, one day, i remember it's around noon, but i don't think it's at noon. this middle—aged man, by the name of richard zuley, lieutenant richard zuley, he called himself captain collins, came to me in my interrogation room and i was then interrogated by staff sergeant mary, the one they saw in the movie, who was crying. and he told me that the united states of america decided to kidnap my mother and put her in men's—only prison, insinuating that she would be raped. he said she would remain in that prison until i confess to my quote—unquote "crimes". and, at that point, i know there was nothing left for me

to lose because the last time i saw my mother is when those police... ..when those cops in plainclothes came to my house and led me outside the house. and i could see my mother in the rear—view mirror praying, holding the prayer beads. and she disappeared as we turned to the right after about 200, 150 metres. and that's it. my mother disappeared. then i did not know she would disappear forever. but now i know she disappeared forever. she never got her day in court. she never get to defend her son. to clear the name of her son. so, and this... at that point, i wasn't doing well when he came to me. i went through up to that point 70 days of sleep deprivation, no sleep, and sexual assault multiple times.

and i was... ..i was being interrogated, 21w. i'd been exposed to the cold room. i told them, "i'm dying." i was pleading with them, trying to negotiate my way out of torture. what i didn't know that some of my co—detainees died in the cold room. mohammed gul didn't get a chance to talk to stephen in hardtalk because he died. he succumbed in the cold room. they used these techniques against you. you've outlined some of them. we know it involved waterboarding. beating, we know it involved sleep deprivation. and, as you've said, you've talked about sexual abuse as well, as well as the psychological torture involving threats to your mother. you cracked, mohamedou, in the end. you decided the way to stop this was to confess. are you now saying that everything you told investigators about your

involvement with jihadists was a complete fabrication? no. i went to afghanistan. that was true. i went to afghanistan for a very brief period, like twice, two months. and then your country, the united kingdom, germany, where i lived, and the united kingdom were on my side. i mean, the first interrogator interrogated me in guantanamo bay. he told me, "i was with you in afghanistan." and he completely... he knows that this was all, you know, supported by the united states of america. it's not like i went, like, with a fake passport, trying to cross the border. i went to the embassy of the mujahideen in bonn, and i got a visa from the mujahideen, a recognised organisation from germany. and it was not like that i prayed in mosques in germany, and that i know other muslims.

this was a concerted war against young arabs and muslims from around the world. no, i have no... ..i have no doubt about it. and it's very shameful that the countries who committed the most abuses are arabs and muslim countries in this whole so—called war on terror. i'm not cutting them any slack, by the way. i want to stick with this idea of what happened in your head after this... ..as you put it, this torture over many, many months. you made a confession, but you also betrayed other individuals. you implicated others. and ijust wonder how guilty you feel about what you did at that point when you talked of others and their involvement. very, very. i feel very bad about it.

and, stephen, itell you, i think this was a karma because when they came to me and they told me... ..the interrogators, the fbi told me that ramzi bin al—shibh testified that i was... ..i helped him go to afghanistan. and i don't know the guy, let alone helping him. and i was, like, so upset with him. i said, "how could he... ..how could he lie about it?" and other detainees, yemeni detainees, who were with him, they told me, "mohamedou, you're crazy. this guy was tortured so badly, we couldn't sleep, hearing him crying all night long." and, after a couple of months, i was in the same situation. and everyone they ask me about, i would say he's a terrorist, he's al-qaeda. and then i know exactly the kind of people they want me... because... ..to name. and ijust named my friends, my closest friends.

and the first thing i do when i met my lawyer, i told her i named mohassin and i named ahmed and they have nothing to do with anything. and i didn't plan to attack cn tower. the first thing i told her, to go to their lawyers if they were in prison. and... but i'm so happy they are free people. and, at least, that my friend i contacted, he never even went to prison because everybody knows that this is under torture. by 2010, the case against you was falling apart. a usjudge ruled that the... ..as he put it, coercive treatment inflicted upon you undermined the possibility of trial. the evidence "so tainted by coercion and mistreatment, it cannot support a successful criminal prosecution". now, that was in 2010, but you weren't actually released until the autumn

of 2016. and i'm just wondering, by the time you finally got out, were you almost scared of the outside world? you had been habituated to guantanamo for so long, what was it like considering, contemplating your own freedom? it's... stephen, it's like if someone comes through today and tell you — tells you that you're going to mars, another planet. and vividly, the captain — a female captain — came to me and stuck her head through the, er, through the bean hole. that is where they give us food. and she was smiling the most beautiful smile. said, "760, you know that you're going home." i just want to make a comment about the judge's decision to release me. so, iwas... ..i was intimidated,

and i was threatened not to go to court. and they told me even if i went to court, they would not let me go. and this is complete disrespect to the rule of law, because guantanamo bay was designed to circumvent the law, because the country — the executive power — should not be able to arrest people and put them in prison, sentence them without proper procedure. that's all i'm saying. all i'm saying. did you — mohamedou... this exception that africans and middle eastern people are exception to the human rights, and that only europeans and americans are the one to enjoy human rights is fascism, actually. every human being should enjoy full human rights, full access to a lawyer, to a judge and to proper procedure. that's all i am calling for.

and i'm a testimony that the suspicion of the government are not enough to convict someone because i was 100% innocent. mohamedou, given this story of yours on what has happened to you, how much anger and desire for some sort of revenge do you have in your heart and soul today? absolutely none whatsoever. when i spent eight months in the prison of darkness injordan, the cia came to me. of course, i didn't know then it was the cia. they start to cut open my clothes with scissors. this is the first time i feel something like that. i was blindfolded and i was earmuffed. and they put me in diapers. and then it dawned on me, i will go to an american prison and die forgotten.

what i regretted was not being nice enough to the people around me. i regretted every bad word, every bad comment i made about people. and i promised and took it upon myself to be nice, if i had a chance to go back to life. ididn't... i didn't regret that i didn't have a lot of money, or i didn't marry this beautiful woman, etc, etc. all that mattered to me at that moment is to be nice to people. and this is it. this is what's going to happen when i...when i'm about to die. that's why i forgive everybody and everyone and i'm not asking anything and i invited them to come to me and visit me, to show them around. and some of them indeed accepted my invitation, like my former guard, steven wood, who came to me twice. i took him to the desert.

he stayed with me at home. we drank tea together, we did some of ramadan, etc, etc. it will be very hypocritical, stephen, for me to call for human rights, for the rule of law, for reconciliation, and not to begin with myself and forgive those who visited pain upon me. some people around the world may be amazed to learn that you actually, in the last few years, have married an american woman, and you have a son who, of course, therefore, is both mauritanian and american. that is a pretty extraordinary thing that you have done, given your experience of the united states of america. when people tell me that, isaid, of course, i need to marry an american because i need a witness next time they kidnap me. so, bad joke aside... er, we are human beings.

dividing us between muslims, christian, western, african, middle eastern, i don't accept it. i am multiple identity. you know, i'm notjust like an african or an arab or a muslim. i'm also an open—minded, liberal—minded person. and i have so many shared values with american. and, in all, i love american people. i think american people are decent people, by and large. let me ask you... and i have no beef with americans. let me ask you this then. you, in the course of our conversation, have said, you know, "yes, i went to afghanistan. i believed in the concept ofjihad." tell me today, what is your attitude to your religion and to those within your religion who still espouse this extreme jihadist ideology? so, of course, i completely condemn extremism, whether it's

coming from muslim, jewish people, hindu people, or... ..i don't do extremism in any shape or form. today, i want the rule of law and democracy for all — all human beings, including in mauritania — starting from mauritania, i would say. when i was a teenager, i lived in a military dictatorship, you know, where people couldn't talk, we couldn't even talk. if you talk, you go to prison, you risk your freedom. and i didn't know how to break free. and then there was so much, like, propaganda about the way that afghan is doing it — taking up arms, and going against the regime, the communist regime. and i was infatuated about the idea. absolutely. and i don't regret that at all. you know, i say this. but today, i'm a mature man, and i know that

violence is not the way. i believe in peaceful revolutions, in peaceful change. and, at the same time, i think that people that espouse, like, extremist ideology, have a place in open society and they should express themselves, and they should not be put in prison because they say they want sharia law or anything. you can only put people in prison if they commit violence. we're almost out of time. one last question about the future of guantanamo bay. you and other former inmates have written to presidentjoe biden, asking him to close guantanamo bay. it was a promise made by barack 0bama, but he couldn't deliver. you want biden to deliver the complete closure of guantanamo, but what then should happen to inmates, like khalid sheikh mohammed, who the americans are absolutely convinced, based on, they say, overwhelming evidence,

he, they say, was a key architect of the 9/11 attack and other attacks as well. if you want guantanamo closed, what should happen to people like khalid sheikh mohammed? this is a very good question. first, guantanamo bay must be closed, and i do believe that president biden will close guantanamo because i believe in him. i thinkjoe biden is a good guy. the people who are people like khalid sheikh mohammed, and anyone who the government thinks were involved in these atrocious attacks, must be brought to trial, very open trial with proper defence. you know? and it's up to the jury and judge to convict them, not up to me or stephen, or the cia or fbi. all right. well, mohamedou 0uld salahi, i thank you very much indeed forjoining me from nouakchott, mauritania. thank you.

thank you, stephen, for having me. hello. after saturday's cloud and rain, somewhat brighter skies around during sunday, but there's every chance you're going to see some wet weather at some stage of the day. really due to the proximity of this area of low pressure, so either showers close to that or indeed along this weather front with still the chance for seeing some outbreaks of rain. certainly more cloud than there will be elsewhere if you're close to that. we're still drawing in some warmer air from the south, so if you do get to see a bit of sunshine, it will actually

feel quite pleasant, particularly across south east england and east anglia, which will see the higher temperatures. but this is where we're starting the day. it's a much milder start than we've had recently, and particularly across england and wales. now, along the weather front i pointed out, some cloud from south west england, south east wales, the midlands and on towards yorkshire. just edging a little bit further east with a chance of a few spots of rain. doesn't look like much more than that for much of the day. close to the low pressure, northern ireland and scotland will see some quite heavy showers, thundery possibly, too. quite blustery, particularly in northern ireland. these are average wind speeds, but gusts here could be over a0 mph or so. and as for temperatures, it will feel a little bit warmer if you do get to see a bit of sunshine during the day, mainly 14—17, but a few spots in east anglia, south east england mayjust get above 20 degrees just depending on how much sunshine there is. but be aware — as we get into the evening, there could be some quite heavy and thundery downpours moving through here, whereas elsewhere overnight and into monday, we will continue with a few showers, particularly across western areas.

and just to reinforce the fact that it's a bit warmer by day and it is overnight as well, these are the temperatures to start things off on monday morning, so there won't be any frost around. that area of low pressure is still, though, close by on monday. in fact, as it will be for the week ahead. and so that's going to mean that there'll be plenty of showers, and this is where we're expecting them to be during monday. some heavy with hail and thunder, particularly towards the west and north. and while some will reach across to eastern areas, it may well be there'll be quite few showers here around at least during the afternoon for the midlands, east anglia and south east england. temperatures are fairly close to average for the time of year. it will feel a bit warmer than it has done over the past week if you're in some of that sunshine. there will still be these heavy downpours around, but very noticeably overnight it's not going to be as cold. it will be largely frost—free in the week ahead.

this is bbc news. i'm lewis vaughan jones. our top stories: more than 50 palestinians have been injured in clashes with israeli forces injerusalem. it follows similar unrest on friday. at least 30 people have been killed — many of them schoolgirls — in a militant attack in the afghan capital, kabul. sadiq khan wins a second term as london mayor, in a result much closer than predicted. europe's leaders resist calls by india to waive patents for vaccines, despite the country's worsening covid crisis. and bits of a chinese space rocket are expected to plunge back to earth in the next few

hours, so should we be worried?