this is bbc news. the headlines: more than 50 palestinians have been injured in clashes with israeli forces injerusalem. they follow similar unrest on friday, when 200 people needed medical treatment. tensions have been rising for weeks over proposals to evict palestinian families from their homes in a neighbourhood where israeli settlers are laying claim to the land. 30 people, many of them young girls, have been killed in a militant attack at a school in the afghan capital, kabul. reports say there were multiple blasts as they were leaving their school. the neighbourhood is home to the hazara minority, who are shia muslims. remnants of a large chinese space rocket are due to plunge back to earth in the next few hours. us and european tracking sites are monitoring the uncontrolled re—entry of the long march rocket, which was used last month to carry into orbit a section of the permanent chinese space station currently being built.

now on bbc news: dateline london. hello, i'm shaun ley. welcome to the programme which brings together leading uk commentators, journalists born overseas who ply their trade in the uk, along with bbc specialists, dateline london. british labour, founded in part by the unions, appears to be in trouble this weekend. it's a different sort of union, that of the nations of the uk, also under threat. the uk is basking in the success of its vaccination programme. is it time to share its good fortune more widely? and the latest on hot air.

no, not politics, but global warming. to shed more light than heat, at least i hope so, two veterans of the newspaper trade. an american by birth, janet daley, has lived in the uk since the 1960s. her politics shifted over the years from labour to conservatives — back in the 80s. she's a columnist for the sunday telegraph. polly toynbee has penned a column for the guardian for more than 20 years. she's supported labour except for a period in the �*80s when she helped to found the sdp, hoping the break the mould of british politics. and with me in the studio, the bbc�*s chief environment correspondentjustin rowlatt. welcome to all of you, lovely to have you with us again. on thursday, hartlepool, on the north—east coast of england, became the latest brick to be broken in what's become known as the red wall. constituencies which are the moats, the electoral fortifications, if you like, which protect the labour party from being swept away altogether. hartlepool elected a conservative mp for the first time since 1959. when the tories started smashing labour's red wall at the last general election in 2019, the blame or credit, depending on where you sit, was put on labour's then—leader jeremy corbyn and on brexit.

but this week, janet, i wonder if it's a case of borisjohnson what won it? yes, it certainly was, by definition. but it's not about brexit, or it is not all about brexit, except in the most symbolic, totemic sort of sense. and it's not all keir starmer�*s fault either. that may surprise you to hear me say that. brexit became the issue which made it clear to the traditional working class northern voters that their party held them in contempt. if you describe everybody who voted for brexit as a stupid bigot, not many people are going to vote for you who voted leave. that's the extent to which brexit was significant in this particular election. keir starmer�*s problem is not just the kind of local problem that it's often described as, which is to say a metropolitan london—based clique has taken over the party, fails to understand working—class voters — that's all true but that's just

the tip of the iceberg. the real problem for labour is that it's a party that was created during the industrial revolution, really as a consequence of the industrial revolution, to speak for the industrial proletariat, and we're now in a post—industrial age and there really isn't any industrial proletariat any longer. so, who does labour speakfor? and one of the transitory decisions, perhaps, that they've made, is to go for an american—style identity politics, and that has been absolutely destructive of their relationship with their traditional working class voters who see them now not even as the nice people as opposed to that nasty tory people, they now see them as running a kind of vindictive cult, the crisis in — the cultural crisis. they see them as leading a vindictive historical

vendetta against their own country and their own history, which completely alienates them from these sort of voters. and i'm afraid that there isn't much sense that the westminster—based labour party is even, has any inkling of understanding of these people. that there is a sense in these communities that they are actively disliked by most of the people who constitute the labour leadership — even thejeremy corbyn marxist wing — that this is essentially a failure of understanding of what these communities are like and what they value. polly toynbee, is your analysis as bleak as janet's for the labour party? it's pretty bleak. today, it's as if a sinkhole had opened up underneath the party. it's been cracking for a long while. certainly, the 2016 brexit vote was the real gut punch to labour support and to labour's position. where everything has become topsy—turvy, we now have a situation where i think

by the time you've added up all the votes of this extensive election, more abci voters will be voting labour and more c2de, in other words, traditional working class, manual classes, will be voting conservative. everything is upside down. of course there are lots of traditional conservative voters in the shires, too. but i don't know — a party called labour no longer has, as janet was saying, that old industrial base any longer, everything has changed, and labour's going to find it very difficult to find itself a new identity. but it's almost as if it needs to tear everything up, begin all overagain, maybe have a new name. i don't think keir starmer himself did badly. after a very rocky time under jeremy corbyn who attracted very little support from traditional labour voters,

keir starmerwas a steadying—the—vote man. he'd been public prosecutor, he'd been a serious man, a very good contrast, many thought, to borisjohnson. if boris johnson is wild, erratic, could do and say anything he wants — quite disgraceful, a bit of a trump character — it seemed that a very sober and sensible and serious labour front bench, which we have now, was the good antidote, but itjust hasn't worked out that way, or at least not yet. it may well be that boris's wild antics will be even more off the leash after this. and once we're over the euphoria, coming to the vaccine question — people are feeling good this week, all the news is good, everything is terrific for boris — but once we're over that, we're likely to go into a time of much more uncertainty, back to austerity spending, high unemployment, it may be that labour finds its feet then and its role then, but at the moment today, it's pretty bleak.

janet. can i say there's an additional dimension to this. apart from the loss of the working—class vote and the failure to understand what working—class voters think and want and value, the collapse of ideological politics. the 20th century was the age of ideology, sometimes with quite hideous consequences, and we're now emerging into an age in which the balance is going to have to be found between free—market economics and social democratic values. most voters want both — and to some extent, tony blair established that fact — and if you can find a pragmatic solution to that, i mean, he never did, actually — he thought you could have mutually contradictory positions at the same time and that act worked for a while — but to get compromises between the social democratic inclinations, the communal considerations that we've seen come

to the fore so strongly in this pandemic year, and free—market economics and individual aspiration, that's a very tricky balance and it's going to have to be reached afresh every year, every time, every decade, because the idea of politics as theology is gone. and thank god for that. if you'll pardon the pun, janet! i'll come back to you in a sec, polly. i just wanted to bring justin in because that kind of politics janet's talking about is an opening, is it not, for environmental politicians, because that is about compromise, it's also about finding common good, trying to find something that actually people, regardless of their party political affiliations, their ideology, can all sign up to, which is, there ain't much point of having politics of any kind if you're sitting on a planet that's going up the spout! absolutely, and so is- the insurgent party at this election the greens? they have seen some gains.

we saw particularly, i mean, l the most dramatic is five seats in sheffield, which takes i sheffield to overall control. there's been a number of other seats, particularly up _ in the north in the midlands. and we don't obviously know, as we sit here, what the result will be in scotland, where there is an expectation that the greens could do pretty well on the list system and that will be another tick in the box for the pro—independence wing of politics. this is an incremental gain. it's quite interesting, - the green party's only mp, caroline lucas, said this. proves that the greens can perform outside of brighton and bristol which are their kind - of heartlands, of course. and stroud, of course, don't forget stroud. stroud, yeah exactly! but this gives it a reach across the country. - so, it is a movement, but we are not seeingj an insurgent party that's i on the border, on the edge of control, which we are i seeing, very interestingly, in germany. the leader of the greens, | annalena baerbock, who's a trampolinist, a 40—year—old, a wonderful, glamorous, - charismatic character, - up against the leader who's chosen by the coalition, i part of the cdu, merkel's party, he is a middle—aged — -

nothing wrong with middle—aged white blokes, i'm one of them — but, you know, he's _ an un—charismatic, middle—aged, you know, up against this much l younger figure, with - a real chance of winning the leadership in germany. really transforming, i mean, i imagine having a green leader in germany, imagine how that. would transform green politics. much more ambitious, i they take carbon cutting targets much harder, - they cut away and get rid of the remaining coal plants in germany, all that kind i of thing, so it could be - transformational for green politics in europe. so there is the possibility, . exactly as you say, for green parties to make this leap - into the political mainstream. just one last thought, polly, if i may with you. i suppose there are those, even among the conservatives, who might lament if labour is really on such a serious decline because it is, along with the conservative party, a party that until now at least, has been pro the united kingdom continuing as a union of nations. could that conceivably weaken the argument, if it comes to it, over

scottish independence? i think if the nationalists in scotland, if the snp get a majority, if they have a majority for breaking away, that will be very much because of the added antipathy to borisjohnson in scotland. he is so disliked that during his whole campaign, borisjohnson, the uk prime minister, has not dared set foot in scotland because they detest him so much. so it may well be that he will be responsible for helping to propel scotland out of the united kingdom. when things start to break up in that way, everything becomes much more uncertain. i think the nature of all political parties will. it may be, of course, that the conservatives within themselves will find their own opposition because that often happens — if you have one hyper—dominant party then its own factions begin to provide the opposition, which they've done quite a bit in the past. it will be interesting to see if that's what happens. but of course, we are a democracy. crosstalk we are a democracy, we have to have an opposition, one way or another,

whether it's labour refounding itself, maybe a progressive alliance with other parties. there has to be a voice against an over dominant party. after all, under the queen's reign, the conservatives have been in power more than twice as often as labour. this is a profoundly conservative country, occasionally punctuated by the invasion of a labour government, but not for long. janet, just very briefly if you would. i want to make a point about the green developments. there is a — i'm afraid i have to revert to the analysis i made a moment ago because there are two versions of green. there is the anti—capitalist version of green, which is the one we've heard most from over the last decade or so, but there is also emerging a pro—development — i mean, borisjohnson is talking now about using green infrastructure to develop the economies of these deprived

areas, of these depressed areas. so there is a kind of cooperative capitalist with capitalism kind of branch of greenery, and i think it's going to have to sort itself out politically, exactly what it represents. i think the anti—capitalist strand is really counter—productive because for the most part people now do accept free—market economics, even people who used to vote labour. so i think that developing green energy as a form of infrastructure — joe biden is doing this too, actually, infrastructure development. so i think there's a political divide even within the green movement. we'll come back to the environment question a little later in the programme. thanks for that, for now. there may — as polly was indicating earlier — be a vaccine bounce in some of these results, we'll know more by the end of the weekend, but the rollout is widely seen as a success, with people in their early 40s now getting jabbed.

more than 35 million of us in the uk have received at least one dose of a vaccine against the covid—i9 virus. now, the british government spoke this week of acquiring doses to top up people's protection in the autumn. us presidentjoe biden, equally anxious to vaccinate his citizens, is pressing, though, for a patent waiver so vaccine manufacture can be accelerated here but — and indeed around the world. but polly, i am just wondering, if patents is really the essence of the problem here? well, it's certainly a part of it. i don't think any democracy can very easily give away vaccines to other countries until it has thoroughly vaccinated its own population. but we're going to reach that soon, and then i hope we're going to continue to manufacture more and more, but will help other countries too as well. it is a little bit sad that you have america, the great bastion of capitalism, saying "we're going to abandon patents and let other countries have all of the information they need to develop their own vaccine manufacturing"

and here we are in britain — and reluctantly as well, europe also sounding reluctant — as if we think preserving big pharma is more important than the lives of people in india and everywhere else. after all, in the end, unless we vaccinate everywhere — particularly the places that are now under such appalling attack by this virus — it will come back to bite us, it will come back in a variant form. the whole world has to be vaccinated and we have to get behind it in every way we can. i mean, if we want, we could compensate big pharma for letting go of their patents — there is nothing to stop governments doing that — but one way or another, it has just got to be got out there as fast as possible. i mean, janet, you were making pretty much that point the last time you and i spoke on this programme a few months ago, that of course we are all in this together, but in terms of the practicality, is it possible that government ministers could turn around to voters in britain and say, "look,

you all want to travel, it's a reasonable argument, but the chances of you being able to travel is dependent on other countries getting the vaccine, so we're going to give up a little bit of our benefit to increase the chances of everybody benefiting." you mean give up a bit of our vaccine? yeah, the booster down the line? six months... i am entirely in favour of giving excess vaccines, vaccines that are sitting in the cupboard as it were, to developing countries that need it, poorer countries. but the patient question is very serious. we mustn't forget, i am no fan of big pharma, it is one of the few remaining prejudices of my marxist youth... laughs. ..but it was big pharma that got us out of this terrible crisis. they were the ones who discovered, through intensive work and a quite miraculous series of discoveries, the way out of this. and they did that because they earn a lot of money and they can put a lot of money into research. as it happened in this country, the government actually subsidised astrazeneca to develop that oxford vaccine, but in most of those

circumstances, it was done by the pharmaceutical companies themselves, with the vast wealth that they gain from their profits. if you take away the incentive for pharmaceutical companies to survive and do research and you take away the resources because you remove their patents and their ability to make profits on these discoveries, you are going to lay up problems for the future. i mean, what pharmaceutical company is going to invest enormous amounts of money and intensive research and labour to make the discoveries that are saving our lives now, if it knows that its patent can be taken away as a political gesture? i don't think that is the way to go. we could always compensate those companies, there's nothing to stop governments buying those patents. there are all sorts of things that can be done. when we are in this kind of global emergency, what we have discovered — which has been exciting —

is that anything can be done. you can borrow any amount of money, you can furlough people, you can support businesses that would otherwise collapse, and of course we can deal with the patent question, just with cash. crosstalk. janet, let me bring injustin at this point. i think there is potentially a more optimistic way - to look at this. i mean, we have a greater. number of effective vaccines than we ever thought possible. of course, i think as polly says, of course countriesl are going to vaccinate i their populations first — that is what you'd expect. it's also what you want, - because we need people to be vaccinated, and that is where the effective vaccinations - will happen. but pretty soon, we have seen around the world, l canada and america are already building up stockpiles of these. vaccines, vaccinesl have use—by dates. they will have to get rid of these vaccinesj and the best way to get rid of them is to give them - to countries that need them. a huge amount of international credibility to be had by giving l away vaccines, so - potentially we could... that is vaccine diplomacy. vaccine diplomacy, exactly. so potentially, we could see this turning around rather.

faster— perhaps than it looks like at the moment. janet. i think there is one risk in giving away the vaccines — although i entirely approve of that idea — and that is that many of the poorer countries, sad to say, have corrupt governments. and it's going to take notjust giving the stuff away, notjust delivering it in crates, but overseeing the distribution of it to make sure that it is distributed properly and fairly, and not simply bought by the richest people or the most influential people in a corrupt society. thank you very much. now the clash between france and the uk forfishing rights this week is a reminder of perhaps the shape of things to come — that it could in future be conflicts over resources including water and the air we breathe that could be the things we end up fighting over. combatting climate change depends on countries not playing politics and beg of my neighbour. distracted by covid and elections we may have been, but there's been a lot happening in this year of big climate decisions. justin, quite a few reports come outjust in the past few

weeks that give us a unique insight into, as it were, the battleground that will have to be confronted come the end of the year when the countries meet to agree the enforcement of the paris agreement? and obviously, we have had a transformation i withjoe biden's administration. | we saw right on the first day of his administration, - he announced he was going to have this international. meeting, big emitters - would come together and talk about climate. we saw ambitious new targets from america, | from britain, from canada — relatively ambitious- from canada, not massive — but we did see _ some. and then you look at — - there is an organisation called climate tracker which estimates the impact these new ambitionsj will have — on the actual climate. they say, they — collect - together these new ambitions, it reduces the expected - temperature rise by 0.2 degrees centigrade, and they're saying we are still - on target by the end . of the century to be 2.4 centigrade above where we are at now — above pre—industrial.| which the collective view of the sciences is not sustainable.

exactly. — it's not sustainable. and of course that is if people live up to the commitments . they have — made, and there is a huge credibility gap with these promises _ so very depressing news. we saw at the same time for. example, president bolsonaro of brazil said "i can end illegal deforestation. . you have to give me — i it will cost you £1 billion a year, but i can do it". he went away, the very, very next week, he cut i the funding for the . environmental police to the lowest level it had ever been. i we saw today there were figures announced by the brazilian - government itself, - by its satellite monitoring organisation, the highest level of deforestation in any april i in history, so 58,000 - hectares of forest cut back, a 43% rise on april last year. an indication that 2021 will be an even bigger deforestationl year than last year. and that is, as you say, echoes of the fish, - what they call a tragedy of the commons, a race

to exploit this resource . and yeah, and a measure of the challengej ahead for us all. janet, are you optimistic about what might be achieved this year? or when you hear things like — do you think it is almost ten steps forward, five steps back at least? it goes back to my point about corrupt governments and unless we can guarantee equally enlightened and democratic and responsible and accountable government in every country in the world, it is going to be, trying to get a green world policy, global policy, is going to be a challenge. laughs. polly, a lot depends, doesn't it, on glasgow, and this meeting that the british are hosting, it's not so much agreeing the rules — we have sort of agreed the rules — it is actually the enforcement and the penalties, and thereby hangs a lot? yes, it is going to be very difficult indeed. huge sacrifices have to be made by everybody.

one of the sacrifices is that we will have to deal with obnoxious governments who are doing terrible things and set the climate issue on one side — as people are talking about with china for instance. forget the uighurs — that's a separate issue, we will deal with that separately. but setting climate aside. so somebody like bolsonaro, you may have to bribe him a lot, you may have to put up with some corruption, in other countries around the world, you are going to have to do whatever it takes. and a lot of those things will be very expensive, very unpalatable and difficult. so it's notjust a question of each of us having to do unpalatable things like give up beef. the methane report this week suggesting that nobody should be eating beef. it is notjust those personal sacrifices that are difficult, especially in democracies, but actually how diplomacy works and detaching climate from other diplomatic aims. can ijustjump in there — i don't want to sound - like an eternal optimist - but there is, at the moment we have got this triumvirate .

of america, europe and china, all talking quite seriously about cutting carbon. - there is an opportunity i for them to say, "listen, you can only — we will onlyl import from you if you have similar— carbon standards as us". there is a way for them - to begin to encourage the rest of the world to get alongside . with the carbon—cutting agenda using their economic leverage. if you took the three of them i together, we are talking more than half the world economy, so there is a kind of potential there for a kind of stick- as well as a carrot, i think. 30 seconds, janet, you've got 30 seconds if you just want to pick up on that. i am a bit worried about polly�*s totalitarian vision. i mean, you know, ithought the whole point was we were all going to drive toward more freedom and more democracy and if the price of a global green policy is that we all have to become as totalitarian as, say, china is today, that doesn't strike me as very palatable. in that case, i'd better give the last word to polly. just very briefly.

of course, i don't think that, but i simply think in our dealings with china, we have to put climate on one side separate to the criticisms we have about the uighurs. it's not about us becoming totalitarian, it is about us being pragmatic, and that's painful. polly toynbee, janet daley, justin rowlatt, thank you for not making this programme painfulfor me, a very easy one — it is a real pleasure as always to have the three of you. thank you very much. it's a particular pleasure to have you too. dojoin us again for dateline london, same time next week. goodbye. hello. after saturday's cloud and rain, somewhat brighter skies around during sunday but there's every chance you're going to see some wet weather

at some stage of the day, really due to the proximity of this area of low pressure, so either showers close to that or, indeed, along this weather front with still the chance for seeing some outbreaks of rain. certainly more cloud than there will be elsewhere if you're close to that. we're still drawing in some warmer air from the south, so if you do get to see a bit of sunshine, it will actually feel quite pleasant, particularly across south east england and east anglia, which will see the higher temperatures. but this is where we're starting the day. it's a much milder start than we've had recently, and particularly across england and wales. now, along the weather front i pointed out, some cloud from south west england, south east wales, the midlands and on towards yorkshire. just edging a little bit further east with the chance of a few spots of rain — it doesn't look like much more than that for much of the day. close to the low pressure, northern ireland and scotland will see some quite heavy showers, thundery possibly too. quite blustery, particularly in northern ireland — these are average wind speeds but gusts here could be over a0 mph or so. and as for temperatures, it will feel a little bit warmer if you do get to see a bit of sunshine during the day, mainly 14—17,

but a few spots in east anglia, south east england mayjust get above 20 degrees, just depending on how much sunshine there is but be aware as we get into the evening, there could be some quite heavy and thundery downpours moving through here, whereas elsewhere overnight and into monday, we will continue with a few showers, particularly across western areas. and just to reinforce the fact that it's a bit warmer by day and it is overnight as well, these are the temperatures to start things off on monday morning, so there won't be any frost around. that area of low pressure is still, though, close by on monday — in fact, as it will be for the week ahead — and so that's going to mean that there'll be plenty of showers, and this is where we're expecting them to be during monday. some heavy with hail and thunder, particularly towards the west and north. and though while some will reach across to eastern areas, it may well be there'll be quite few showers here around, at least during the afternoon, for the midlands, east anglia and south east england. temperatures are fairly close to average for the time of year. it will feel a bit warmer

than it has done over the past week if you're in some of that sunshine. there will still be these heavy downpours around but very noticeably overnight, it's not going to be as cold. it will be largely frost—free in the week ahead.

welcome to bbc news. i'm lewis vaughan jones. our top stories: more than 50 palestinians have been injured in clashes with israeli forces injerusalem. it follows similar unrest on friday. at least 30 people have been killed, many of them schoolgirls, in a militant attack in the afghan capital, kabul. sadiq khan wins a second term as london mayor in a result much closer than predicted. europe's leaders resist calls by india to waive patents forvaccines, despite the country's worsening covid crisis. and bits of a chinese space rocket are expected to plunge back to earth in the next few hours. so, should we be worried?