now it's time for a look at the weather. you may have been caught in the downpours today. a real wash—out for some of us. especially because south—western parts of the uk. friday will bring further showers, but they won't be as widespread and in fact for most of us, it is going to be mostly a dry day. the forecast then for this evening still shows some showers across the south and in fact, it has actually been prolonged rain across the south—west of england and parts of wales rather than showers. showers have occurred further north. i think by the end of the night, it is cloudy and damp more than anything, and frost free with temperatures between 6 degrees and 9 degrees. an overcast start on friday for most of us. through the afternoon, we will have some sunshine, but showers will break out in western and southern areas, some of the showers could be heavy with

hail and thunder, but generally speaking, i think it is a quieter day. hello and welcome to this special programme on bbc news. the coronavirus pandemic is testing the national health service like never before. staff have been left physically and mentally drained as they battled covid—19 on the front line. but after three lockdowns — and a so far successful roll—out of a vaccine — the darkest days of the pandemic appear to be behind us. however, it doesn't mean the pressure is. the latest figures just under five million people are currently on the waiting list for routine operations — and in this next half hour we'll be discussing how the health service can tackle the backlog, some of the solutions hospitals are coming up with, the mental health impact of the backlog on staff and patients alike — and in what state the nhs emerges from the pandemic. here with me in the studio

is chris hopson from nhs providers, which is made up of, and represents, the hospital, mental health, community and ambulance trusts. also i'm joined by chaand nagpaulfrom the british medical association. also sophie corlett from the mental health charity mind. good to have both of you here with us and i know that he will be with us and i know that he will be with us as soon as he can. and let's talk first of all about the implications of this in terms of the scale. can you paint a picture of what exactly we are faced with in the nhs in terms of backlog? i would look

before the pandemic and how it looks now was before went to the pandemic, we know the nhs was slightly struggling because we know, we had more cases we struggling because we know, we had more case ., ., ., more cases we had more than we were able to treat- — more cases we had more than we were able to treat. we _ more cases we had more than we were able to treat. we saw— more cases we had more than we were able to treat. we saw the _ more cases we had more than we were able to treat. we saw the worst - able to treat. we saw the worst waiting times we he seemed a long time that we had covid—i9. it happened at the covid—i9 was we had to concentrate on treating people who are seriously ill. surprise, surprise. we had to turn operating theatres into temporary covid—i9 intensive care units. that basically means that we have not been able to treat the normal numbers of people who need ordinary operations then we would normally treat. that basically means we've now got a rapidly growing waiting list. to answer your question, we do not know how many people would ordinarily come forward for treatment last year and have not come forward for treatment and when they're going to come forward now stop by that raises an interesting point does note that a lot of this

is unknown because people kind of responded to the sense of crisis caused by the pandemic. they may be did not want to get infected. find did not want to get infected. and also talk about _ did not want to get infected. and also talk about doctors and nurses were already dealing with the intensive work load that they're trying to manage and did med successfully. the system did not give way under the strain, which it has in other countries, most recently in india.— has in other countries, most recently in india. this is done an absolutely _ recently in india. this is done an absolutely amazing _ recently in india. this is done an absolutely amazing job. - recently in india. this is done an absolutely amazing job. we - recently in india. this is done an absolutely amazing job. we just | absolutely amazing job. we just cannot do everything. that has meant that we've now got these waiting lists that are growing in the problem is, we don't quite know how they're going to be. i've talked to one chief executive who told me that the problem at the moment that for every patient that a treat, we are getting two more added to the waiting list. so, even though we are going very very fast we are certainly treating the most urgent cases as quickly as possible, we are currently beating the targets that we were set and we are told and

encouraged to get back to 70% of the volumes that we were treating before we hidden to covid—i9. we are now running at 80% of those volumes, but we still do not know the full size of the problem.— we still do not know the full size of the problem. sophie, one of the thins of the problem. sophie, one of the things you've _ of the problem. sophie, one of the things you've been _ of the problem. sophie, one of the things you've been involved - of the problem. sophie, one of the things you've been involved with i of the problem. sophie, one of the | things you've been involved with his effort to help local areas of the nhs improve their response to people with mental health problems. in the course of the pandemic, what sort of extra problems have arisen and how is that also impacted by the fact of the backlog?— is that also impacted by the fact of the backlog? that particular pro'ect that ou the backlog? that particular pro'ect that you said. fl the backlog? that particular pro'ect that you said. tfi the backlog? that particular pro'ect that you said, i was i the backlog? that particular project that you said, i was responsible, i that you said, i was responsible, there _ that you said, i was responsible, there was— that you said, i was responsible, there was a _ that you said, i was responsible, there was a particular project that we were _ there was a particular project that we were involved in. my there was a particular pro'ect that we were involved in. my apologies. whatever interest _ we were involved in. my apologies. whatever interest is _ we were involved in. my apologies. whatever interest is to _ we were involved in. my apologies. whatever interest is to support - whatever interest is to support local_ whatever interest is to support local areas and to improve their response — local areas and to improve their response to people with mental health— response to people with mental health problems and to go back to the question of things we have seen,

obviously— the question of things we have seen, obviously services did change quite dramatically when the pandemic started — dramatically when the pandemic started and the community services were withdrawn or went online and marry _ were withdrawn or went online and many people were sent home in different— many people were sent home in different circumstances and so, things— different circumstances and so, things did — different circumstances and so, things did radically change and yes. we have _ things did radically change and yes. we have seen a build—up of need of people _ we have seen a build—up of need of people whose needs have not been met, _ people whose needs have not been met. as _ people whose needs have not been met, as well as peoples mental health— met, as well as peoples mental health deteriorating quite significantly during the pandemic, sometimes because they did not seek help earlier. because they felt they should _ help earlier. because they felt they should not be bothering services. it is a really— should not be bothering services. it is a really complicated seen and not a good _ is a really complicated seen and not a good picture. 35mg is a really complicated seen and not a good picture-— a good picture. any insight from, sometimes _ a good picture. any insight from, sometimes people _ a good picture. any insight from, sometimes people do _ a good picture. any insight from, sometimes people do not - a good picture. any insight from, l sometimes people do not approach their employer, they look for help outside because they feel professionally vulnerable, not many organisations like the bbc or the nhs, if you have a mental health

problem, come to us. it does not always feel a people want to do that. do you have any sense of with the mental health impact is been on staff in the nhs?— staff in the nhs? yes. one of the thints we staff in the nhs? yes. one of the things we have — staff in the nhs? yes. one of the things we have done _ staff in the nhs? yes. one of the things we have done during - staff in the nhs? yes. one of the things we have done during the l things we have done during the pandemic is through the hospice uk and samaritans set up an online service — and samaritans set up an online service for— and samaritans set up an online service for front—line workers, including — service for front—line workers, including health workers and emergency workers and we have seen really— emergency workers and we have seen really huge _ emergency workers and we have seen really huge numbers. that is purely remote. _ really huge numbers. that is purely remote. it — really huge numbers. that is purely remote. it is— really huge numbers. that is purely remote, it is online self—care, it is phone — remote, it is online self—care, it is phone and _ remote, it is online self—care, it is phone and online support, it is 20 47~ _ is phone and online support, it is 20 47~ it — is phone and online support, it is 20 47~ it is — is phone and online support, it is 20 47. it is phenomenally accessible to those _ 20 47. it is phenomenally accessible to those who drink shiftwork and maybe _ to those who drink shiftwork and maybe have not got a lot of time to id maybe have not got a lot of time to go in _ maybe have not got a lot of time to go in and _ maybe have not got a lot of time to go in and seek out support and that has been _ go in and seek out support and that has been phenomenally well used and a taking _ has been phenomenally well used and a taking us— has been phenomenally well used and a taking us back. let has been phenomenally well used and a taking us back.— a taking us back. let us bring in doctor nagpaul— a taking us back. let us bring in doctor nagpaul and _ a taking us back. let us bring in doctor nagpaul and thank- a taking us back. let us bring in

doctor nagpaul and thank you l a taking us back. let us bring in i doctor nagpaul and thank you very much for overcoming the technical difficulties injoining us. ijust want to ask you about the backlog. we know about the public response to the initial pandemic and how effectively the nhs kind of galvanise the public to take ownership of this crisis, to do our bit as it were. how can we achieve that same effect, do you think? what will help us achieve that same effect with the backlog? it is difficult to — effect with the backlog? it is difficult to replicate - effect with the backlog? it 3 difficult to replicate that because of the pandemic, it was the case of preventing the spread of infection. we are actually leaving from a covid—i9 crisis to a backlog crisis where, we have accumulated 4.7 million patients now on waiting list is about 20 million patients seen in outpatient clinics and with a 400,000 to nearly 400,000 are waiting more than 12 months for treatment compared to just buy him a half thousand before the pandemic. so, the trouble is, there's not much

the public can do, it's what we can somehow manage to do and prioritising those who are most in urgent need of care, but also recognising that this backlog is going to take in our view, and experts view, used to clear. ii'ioifif going to take in our view, and experts view, used to clear. how do we tet experts view, used to clear. how do we get that — experts view, used to clear. how do we get that message _ experts view, used to clear. how do we get that message across, - experts view, used to clear. how do we get that message across, if- experts view, used to clear. how do we get that message across, if you | we get that message across, if you like? i we get that message across, if you like? ~' we get that message across, if you like? ~ ., ., , ., like? i think the government has to be honest and _ like? i think the government has to be honest and with _ like? i think the government has to be honest and with the _ like? i think the government has to be honest and with the public, - like? i think the government has to be honest and with the public, we i be honest and with the public, we have got a crisis, a crisis that looks hidden as we are talking about coronavirus, infection rates coming down. but it is a real crisis of patients waiting in the millions. and in that honesty, 20 take years, what we must do is make sure those patients for whom further weights could be seriously detrimental to their health, the most urgent need of treatment is treated first. that in itself requires quite a bit of workforce planning to prioritise and doctors and nurses will need to be using their time to do so.- doctors and nurses will need to be using their time to do so. sophie, i 'ust want using their time to do so. sophie, i just want to — using their time to do so. sophie, i just want to come _ using their time to do so. sophie, i just want to come back _ using their time to do so. sophie, i just want to come back to - using their time to do so. sophie, i just want to come back to you - using their time to do so. sophie, i

just want to come back to you on . just want to come back to you on that. does that cause you any concern at all this crisis, and encouraging the use of the word crisis for reasons that nagpaul has explained? it crisis for reasons that nagpaul has ex . lained? . crisis for reasons that nagpaul has ex-lained? , , . , �* explained? it is difficult, isn't it? you don't _ explained? it is difficult, isn't it? you don't want _ explained? it is difficult, isn't it? you don't want to - explained? it is difficult, isn't it? you don't want to call - explained? it is difficult, isn't it? you don't want to call it i explained? it is difficult, isn't it? you don't want to call it a| it? you don't want to call it a crisis — it? you don't want to call it a crisis and _ it? you don't want to call it a crisis and get people worried. but there _ crisis and get people worried. but there is— crisis and get people worried. but there is a — crisis and get people worried. but there is a huge issue here and unless— there is a huge issue here and unless people take it seriously, it's only— unless people take it seriously, it's only going to get worse. i think— it's only going to get worse. i think it — it's only going to get worse. i think it is _ it's only going to get worse. i think it is difficult to overestimate getting the issues that we are _ overestimate getting the issues that we are facing. | overestimate getting the issues that we are facing-— we are facing. i think we should acknowledge — we are facing. i think we should acknowledge the _ we are facing. i think we should acknowledge the size _ we are facing. i think we should acknowledge the size of - we are facing. i think we should acknowledge the size of the - we are facing. i think we should - acknowledge the size of the problem. i think that is really important. that is a no? i i think that is really important. that is a no?— i think that is really important. that is a no? i think you asked a really good _ that is a no? i think you asked a really good question _ that is a no? i think you asked a really good question which - that is a no? i think you asked a really good question which is - that is a no? i think you asked a l really good question which is how that is a no? i think you asked a - really good question which is how do we recapture the spirit that we had over the last 15 months. the crisis, that would — over the last 15 months. the crisis, that would be _ over the last 15 months. the crisis, that would be honest. _ over the last 15 months. the crisis, that would be honest. we - over the last 15 months. the crisis, that would be honest. we have - over the last 15 months. the crisis, that would be honest. we have to. that would be honest. we have to acknowledge _ that would be honest. we have to acknowledge the _ that would be honest. we have to acknowledge the size _ that would be honest. we have to acknowledge the size of - that would be honest. we have to acknowledge the size of the - that would be honest. we have to i acknowledge the size of the problem but the nhs to some extraordinary

things. we created 30,000 beds to treat covid—i9 patients. we ensured that for example, we had the fastest vaccination roll—out across the world. we tripled our intensive care capacity from january to february two see what we are seeing in india and brazil. we now need the nhs to do the same kind of extraordinary things to tackle this backlog. i think we can do it in the problem we are talking about in terms of crisis and taking a pessimistic view is that we aren't endangering talking ourselves down. i think we can do it. we need a proper plan and we need proper levels of funding to ensure that happens. just need proper levels of funding to ensure that happens.— need proper levels of funding to ensure that happens. just to respond to that point — ensure that happens. just to respond to that point briefly, _ ensure that happens. just to respond to that point briefly, nagpaul. - ensure that happens. just to respond to that point briefly, nagpaul. we i to that point briefly, nagpaul. we expanded capacity and repurpose the nhs to— expanded capacity and repurpose the nhs to deal— expanded capacity and repurpose the nhs to deal with _ expanded capacity and repurpose the nhs to deal with the _ expanded capacity and repurpose the nhs to deal with the surgeon - nhs to deal with the surgeon covid-i9 _ nhs to deal with the surgeon covid—19 patients— nhs to deal with the surgeon covid—19 patients at - nhs to deal with the surgeon covid—19 patients at the - nhs to deal with the surgeon . covid—19 patients at the expense nhs to deal with the surgeon - covid—19 patients at the expense of many— covid—19 patients at the expense of many other— covid—19 patients at the expense of many other patients _ covid—19 patients at the expense of many other patients weren't - covid—19 patients at the expense of many other patients weren't able i covid—19 patients at the expense of|

many other patients weren't able to be seen _ many other patients weren't able to be seen that — many other patients weren't able to be seen that is _ many other patients weren't able to be seen. that is what _ many other patients weren't able to be seen. that is what we _ many other patients weren't able to be seen. that is what we have - many other patients weren't able to be seen. that is what we have this. be seen. that is what we have this backlog _ be seen. that is what we have this backlog of— be seen. that is what we have this backlog of several— be seen. that is what we have this backlog of several million - be seen. that is what we have this| backlog of several million patients. it is backlog of several million patients. it is not _ backlog of several million patients. it is not about— backlog of several million patients. it is not about semantics, - backlog of several million patients. it is not about semantics, its - backlog of several million patients. it is not about semantics, its aboutj it is not about semantics, its about honesty~ _ it is not about semantics, its about honesty~ we — it is not about semantics, its about honesty. we are _ it is not about semantics, its about honesty. we are not _ it is not about semantics, its about honesty. we are not going - it is not about semantics, its about honesty. we are not going to - it is not about semantics, its about honesty. we are not going to be i it is not about semantics, its about i honesty. we are not going to be able to deal— honesty. we are not going to be able to deal with — honesty. we are not going to be able to deal with this _ honesty. we are not going to be able to deal with this backlog _ honesty. we are not going to be able to deal with this backlog in _ honesty. we are not going to be able to deal with this backlog in a - honesty. we are not going to be able to deal with this backlog in a short i to deal with this backlog in a short space _ to deal with this backlog in a short space of— to deal with this backlog in a short space of time _ to deal with this backlog in a short space of time. many— to deal with this backlog in a short space of time. many experts - to deal with this backlog in a short space of time. many experts thinkj to deal with this backlog in a short i space of time. many experts think it would _ space of time. many experts think it would take — space of time. many experts think it would take years, _ space of time. many experts think it would take years, i _ space of time. many experts think it would take years, ijust _ space of time. many experts think it would take years, ijust want - space of time. many experts think it would take years, ijust want to - space of time. many experts think it would take years, ijust want to be i would take years, ijust want to be honest _ would take years, ijust want to be honest and — would take years, ijust want to be honest and i_ would take years, ijust want to be honest. and i think— would take years, ijust want to be honest. and i think it's— would take years, ijust want to be honest. and i think it's really- honest. and i think it's really important _ honest. and i think it's really important to _ honest. and i think it's really important to recognise - honest. and i think it's really important to recognise as - honest. and i think it's really important to recognise as we honest. and i think it's really- important to recognise as we are not awash— important to recognise as we are not awash with _ important to recognise as we are not awash with beds _ important to recognise as we are not awash with beds and _ important to recognise as we are not awash with beds and doctors. - important to recognise as we are not awash with beds and doctors. we - awash with beds and doctors. we already— awash with beds and doctors. we already have _ awash with beds and doctors. we already have far— awash with beds and doctors. we already have far fewer— awash with beds and doctors. we already have far fewer hospital i awash with beds and doctors. we i already have far fewer hospital beds in places— already have far fewer hospital beds in places like — already have far fewer hospital beds in places like germany— already have far fewer hospital beds in places like germany and - already have far fewer hospital beds in places like germany and france. i in places like germany and france. about _ in places like germany and france. about a _ in places like germany and france. about a third — in places like germany and france. about a third as _ in places like germany and france. about a third as many _ in places like germany and france. about a third as many we - in places like germany and france. about a third as many we have - in places like germany and france. | about a third as many we have very few doctors— about a third as many we have very few doctors relatively _ about a third as many we have very few doctors relatively speaking - few doctors relatively speaking compared _ few doctors relatively speaking compared to _ few doctors relatively speaking compared to european- few doctors relatively speaking | compared to european nations. few doctors relatively speaking - compared to european nations. there is a challenge. — compared to european nations. there is a challenge, it's _ compared to european nations. there is a challenge, it's not _ compared to european nations. there is a challenge, it's not about - is a challenge, it's not about creating _ is a challenge, it's not about creating alarm, _ is a challenge, it's not about creating alarm, but - is a challenge, it's not about creating alarm, but by - is a challenge, it's not about creating alarm, but by beingj is a challenge, it's not about - creating alarm, but by being honest, one can _ creating alarm, but by being honest, one can actually— creating alarm, but by being honest, one can actually try— creating alarm, but by being honest, one can actually try and _ creating alarm, but by being honest, one can actually try and make - creating alarm, but by being honest, one can actually try and make sure i one can actually try and make sure that those — one can actually try and make sure that those patients _ one can actually try and make sure that those patients in _ one can actually try and make sure that those patients in greatest - one can actually try and make sure i that those patients in greatest need or treated _ that those patients in greatest need or treated first. _ that those patients in greatest need or treated first. but _ that those patients in greatest need or treated first. but also, _ that those patients in greatest need or treated first. but also, an - or treated first. but also, an enormous _ or treated first. but also, an enormous potential- or treated first. but also, an enormous potential in - or treated first. but also, an enormous potential in whatl or treated first. but also, an. enormous potential in what is important _ enormous potential in what is important is _ enormous potential in what is important is to _ enormous potential in what is important is to use _ enormous potential in what isi important is to use technology enormous potential in what is - important is to use technology to inform _ important is to use technology to inform patients, _ important is to use technology to inform patients, there _ important is to use technology to inform patients, there thousandsj important is to use technology to i inform patients, there thousands of appointments — inform patients, there thousands of appointments taken _ inform patients, there thousands of appointments taken up _ inform patients, there thousands of appointments taken up every - inform patients, there thousands of appointments taken up every day i appointments taken up every day because — appointments taken up every day because patients _ appointments taken up every day because patients don't _ appointments taken up every day because patients don't know- appointments taken up every day i because patients don't know where they are _ because patients don't know where they are in — because patients don't know where theyare in the _ because patients don't know where they are in the list. _ because patients don't know where they are in the list. there - because patients don't know where they are in the list. there are - they are in the list. there are literally— they are in the list. there are literally making _ they are in the list. there are| literally making appointments they are in the list. there are i literally making appointments of wind like — literally making appointments of wind like it— literally making appointments of wind like it may— literally making appointments of wind like it may have _ literally making appointments of wind like it may have done, - literally making appointments of wind like it may have done, canl literally making appointments of.

wind like it may have done, can you change _ wind like it may have done, can you change this— wind like it may have done, can you change this appointment, _ wind like it may have done, can you change this appointment, actually i wind like it may have done, can you i change this appointment, actually we can see _ change this appointment, actually we can see patients— change this appointment, actually we can see patients if— change this appointment, actually we can see patients if that _ change this appointment, actually we can see patients if that can _ change this appointment, actually we can see patients if that can be - can see patients if that can be automated _ can see patients if that can be automated and _ can see patients if that can be automated and use _ can see patients if that can be i automated and use notifications can see patients if that can be - automated and use notifications to patients _ automated and use notifications to patients so — automated and use notifications to patients so that _ automated and use notifications to patients so that they— automated and use notifications to patients so that they know - automated and use notifications to patients so that they know where i patients so that they know where they are — patients so that they know where they are on — patients so that they know where they are on the _ patients so that they know where they are on the list _ patients so that they know where they are on the list waiting - patients so that they know where they are on the list waiting and i they are on the list waiting and when _ they are on the list waiting and when they— they are on the list waiting and when they may _ they are on the list waiting and when they may get _ they are on the list waiting and when they may get an - they are on the list waiting and - when they may get an appointment for an operation _ when they may get an appointment for an operation stop _ when they may get an appointment for an operation stop what _ when they may get an appointment for an operation stop what i _ when they may get an appointment for an operation stop what i want - when they may get an appointment for an operation stop what i want to - an operation stop what i want to come _ an operation stop what i want to come back— an operation stop what i want to come back to _ an operation stop what i want to come back to this _ an operation stop what i want to come back to this debate - an operation stop what i want to come back to this debate and i an operation stop what i want to come back to this debate and al come back to this debate and a moment — come back to this debate and a moment let's_ come back to this debate and a moment. let's ask— come back to this debate and a moment. let's ask one - come back to this debate and a moment. let's ask one quick. come back to this debate and a - moment. let's ask one quick thing. just on _ moment. let's ask one quick thing. just on the — moment. let's ask one quick thing. just on the question _ moment. let's ask one quick thing. just on the question of— moment. let's ask one quick thing. just on the question of money- just on the question of money because — just on the question of money because money. _ just on the question of money because money. it— just on the question of money because money.— just on the question of money because money. it is about getting the ritht because money. it is about getting the right equipment, _ because money. it is about getting the right equipment, the _ because money. it is about getting the right equipment, the right - the right equipment, the right people in the right places and we'll talk about that later in the programme and trying to do at that. on the funding question, we have this problem back in the 2000s when labour was in office and when you look at the spending growth rates of the uk public spending on health. the average according to the institute for studies. you know, but i'm telling the audience. the average for the increase in health was 6% under the coalition of the conservative democrats in the time of austerity of one person. now it

is 6%. we have to think about moving up is 6%. we have to think about moving up again in terms of the growth rates or can we manage because referred to hundred 66 million is to been announced today. and as a speak on the course of the week. under 66 million across in the health service is relatively small amount of money, when you spread across every trust. it is a good question because it's a good comparison to make. a lot of our chief executives at the last time we were in the step of problem, thatis time we were in the step of problem, that is born out of the evidence, that is born out of the evidence, that was the early to thousands your right, there were five years in a row where we had nhs funding increased by 7% plus a year over a five—year period for each of five years. what is now on offer is 3.2% and about half of the amount. i don't think anyone in the nhs is pretending that we can get back up to 7%, given we are where we are the public finances. but, if you're going to do it we need to do, we

need a bold radical transformative plan and the government is going to have to invest in that plan and the billions of pounds they have invested in the recovery this year with which the 160 is a part. that can only be the first instalment. we think there's going to be at least three years of probably something like two or e3 three years of probably something like two or £3 billion a year extra on top of the 3.2 that we have been talking about and that extra money just being devoted to a backlog recovery. that's overdoing at the moment. were talking about how were going to do this and how we're going to cost. we going to do this and how we're going to cost. ~ ., ., ._ let's move away from considering the big picture for a couple of minutes to the personal experience. in the end, effective health care depends on our relationship with those who treat us. victoria derbyshire has spent the day at st thomas' nhs trust, speaking to staff and patients. among those she talked to, a familiar face who helped her with the breast cancer diagnosis she received back in the summer of 2015. welcome to the cancer centre at guy's hospital in central london.

we are here in the radiotherapy department and as we are walking in, i saw a member of staff here and i thought that she looked familiar. and then this woman said to me, yes, i'm following you around and i looked up and i said, ifeel like i know you. and i do. this woman is called sabrina parreira, she is a senior radiographer and when i was being treated for radiotherapy, you were a junior radiographer, so you have clearly soared in your career, congratulations on your promotion. and, it's so weird to bumping to you. and, it's so weird bumping to you. i actually feel really moved. you are looking after me four orfive years ago in the cancer centre at st luke's. and you have continued looking after patients. tell us what a radiographer does, because i'm not sure the people really know. as a therapeutic radiographer, what we normally do is use the machine behind us and it delivers a high energy x—ray which targets the cancer cells.

essentially damages the dna, killing off the cancer and preventing reproduction and hopefully killing off the cancerous cells. you target a local area, so if someone had breast cancer like i did, it would just be on the actual breast area, wouldn't it? where is chemotherapy goes round the whole body. from head to her, so we are very localised and we treat all areas, as you mention, head to toe, but concentrated exactly where the cancer tumour is in concentrating their treatment on the area. and have you been able to carry on this treatment through the pandemic? all throughout the pandemic, we have been business as usual, delivering all the treatments to the patients when they need it. how have you managed that? we have had to adapt and as radiographers, we are used to being flexible and adaptable to services needed from us. with that, in social distancing is a team, meaning that less staff in their treatment floor and sat staff upstairs sort of doing the background work with patients and ensuring that they are socially distance and also in the waiting

rooms for the treatments. ensuring that we can treat any patients that were covid positive we had a special pathway for them where they were coming in and isolating them as well from the rest of the department but ensuring that they also had a fair chance of getting their treatment. have you got the backlog at all? at the moment, we don't have a backlog at all because we have been able to continue our services as usual. we have just kept everything going as much as we could. i wonder if, though, as we emerge from this now, are you expecting any kind of surge in people coming forward for tests for cancer. understandably a lot of people have been quite apprehensive going to their gps and sort of getting referrals going. so we would expect some sort of search, but we do expect us to be able to adapt our service as and when it happens and keep going as we have until now. yes, thank you so much, sabrina. so nice to see you. lovely to see you as well. was i a good patient? oh, the best. great answer. thank you. it's notjust the backlog of delayed

diagnosis snd treatment that worries people in the health service. it's the effect on our mental health, too. sophie corlett, your charity has asked people about this. what did their answers suggest? in terms of mental health problems of the pandemic has added? to big surve s of the pandemic has added? to big surveys actually. — of the pandemic has added? to big surveys actually, one _ of the pandemic has added? to big surveys actually, one last - of the pandemic has added? to big surveys actually, one last spring i surveys actually, one last spring and another this spring, to ask people — and another this spring, to ask people over period how their mental health— people over period how their mental health exchange. we talked to 1600 people _ health exchange. we talked to 1600 people last year. 16,000 sorry, and we found _ people last year. 16,000 sorry, and we found that peoples mental health was deteriorating quite significantly. in some groups much more _ significantly. in some groups much more than — significantly. in some groups much more than others. women much more than men. _ more than others. women much more than men, young people much more than men, young people much more than old _ than men, young people much more than old people and adults, people of colour. —

than old people and adults, people of colour, there were people that were _ of colour, there were people that were particularly affected and also particularly affected by some of the impacts— particularly affected by some of the impacts of already began to lose their— impacts of already began to lose theiriobs— impacts of already began to lose theirjobs and financial security. their jobs and financial security. and those — theirjobs and financial security. and those things got worse over that year~ _ and those things got worse over that year~ and _ and those things got worse over that year. and for many people, the whole experience. _ year. and for many people, the whole experience, the lockdown and the concerns — experience, the lockdown and the concerns about covid—19 itself and being _ concerns about covid—19 itself and being a _ concerns about covid—19 itself and being a front—line worker and the mix of— being a front—line worker and the mix of all— being a front—line worker and the mix of all of those things and different— mix of all of those things and different groups of people has been really _ different groups of people has been really devastating. and for people with mental health problems, they've been one _ with mental health problems, they've been one of the groups really most impacted _ been one of the groups really most impacted because those who already had mental health problems, the mental— had mental health problems, the mental health problems of gotten much _ mental health problems of gotten much worse. mental health problems of gotten much worse-— mental health problems of gotten much worse. you've been a gp for nearl 30 much worse. you've been a gp for nearly 30 years — much worse. you've been a gp for nearly 30 years now. _ much worse. you've been a gp for nearly 30 years now. your - much worse. you've been a gp for. nearly 30 years now. your practices in north london. for this been your experience was make of you seen evidence of that among young patients and more generally in the conversations you've had with other

doctors? i conversations you've had with other doctors? ., ., ' ' conversations you've had with other doctors? ., ., " . , , doctors? i mean, the covid-19 crisis is devastated _ doctors? i mean, the covid-19 crisis is devastated people's _ doctors? i mean, the covid-19 crisis is devastated people's lives - doctors? i mean, the covid-19 crisis is devastated people's lives and - is devastated people's lives and turn people _ is devastated people's lives and turn people upside _ is devastated people's lives and turn people upside down. - is devastated people's lives and i turn people upside down. people is devastated people's lives and - turn people upside down. people have lost their— turn people upside down. people have lost theirjobs — turn people upside down. people have lost theirjobs. those _ turn people upside down. people have lost theirjobs. those of _ turn people upside down. people have lost theirjobs. those of mental- lost theirjobs. those of mental health— lost theirjobs. those of mental health illnesses _ lost theirjobs. those of mental health illnesses have _ lost theirjobs. those of mental health illnesses have not- lost theirjobs. those of mental health illnesses have not beeni lost theirjobs. those of mental- health illnesses have not been able to have _ health illnesses have not been able to have face—to—face _ health illnesses have not been able to have face—to—face support - health illnesses have not been able to have face—to—face support and i to have face—to—face support and it's been— to have face—to—face support and it's been really— to have face—to—face support and it's been really tough _ to have face—to—face support and it's been really tough on - to have face—to—face support and it's been really tough on them. i to have face—to—face support and l it's been really tough on them. but for the _ it's been really tough on them. but for the medical— it's been really tough on them. but for the medical profession, - it's been really tough on them. but for the medical profession, we - it's been really tough on them. butl for the medical profession, we have been _ for the medical profession, we have been doing — for the medical profession, we have been doing surveys _ for the medical profession, we have been doing surveys throughout - for the medical profession, we have been doing surveys throughout the i been doing surveys throughout the last year— been doing surveys throughout the last year and — been doing surveys throughout the last year and a _ been doing surveys throughout the last year and a bit _ been doing surveys throughout the last year and a bit and _ been doing surveys throughout the last year and a bit and around - been doing surveys throughout the last year and a bit and around four| last year and a bit and around four and ten— last year and a bit and around four and ten doctors _ last year and a bit and around four and ten doctors tell— last year and a bit and around four and ten doctors tell us _ last year and a bit and around four and ten doctors tell us that - last year and a bit and around four and ten doctors tell us that their. and ten doctors tell us that their burnt— and ten doctors tell us that their burnt out. — and ten doctors tell us that their burnt out, stressed, _ and ten doctors tell us that their burnt out, stressed, they're - burnt out, stressed, they're physically— burnt out, stressed, they're physically and _ burnt out, stressed, they're physically and emotionally i burnt out, stressed, they're - physically and emotionally exhausted and remember— physically and emotionally exhausted and remember health— physically and emotionally exhausted and remember health care _ physically and emotionally exhausted and remember health care workers i and remember health care workers have seen— and remember health care workers have seen death _ and remember health care workers have seen death and _ and remember health care workers have seen death and illness - and remember health care workers have seen death and illness at - and remember health care workers have seen death and illness at a i have seen death and illness at a scale _ have seen death and illness at a scale they— have seen death and illness at a scale they have _ have seen death and illness at a scale they have never _ have seen death and illness at a scale they have never been - have seen death and illness at a scale they have never been able have seen death and illness at a i scale they have never been able to be trained — scale they have never been able to be trained to — scale they have never been able to be trained to experience. - scale they have never been able to be trained to experience. it- scale they have never been able to be trained to experience. it has. be trained to experience. it has received — be trained to experience. it has received his— be trained to experience. it has received his lockdowns, - be trained to experience. it has received his lockdowns, that i be trained to experience. it has received his lockdowns, that is| be trained to experience. it has. received his lockdowns, that is the time where — received his lockdowns, that is the time where people _ received his lockdowns, that is the time where people have _ received his lockdowns, that is the time where people have been - received his lockdowns, that is the time where people have been at i received his lockdowns, that is the. time where people have been at the busiest _ time where people have been at the busiest you — time where people have been at the busiest. you know— time where people have been at the busiest. you know the _ time where people have been at the busiest. you know the large - time where people have been at the i busiest. you know the large numbers of not _ busiest. you know the large numbers of not add _ busiest. you know the large numbers of not add holiday— busiest. you know the large numbers of not add holiday or _ busiest. you know the large numbers of not add holiday or leaving - busiest. you know the large numbers of not add holiday or leaving a - of not add holiday or leaving a sense — of not add holiday or leaving a sense of— of not add holiday or leaving a sense of duty _ of not add holiday or leaving a sense of duty has _ of not add holiday or leaving a sense of duty has come - of not add holiday or leaving a sense of duty has come first l of not add holiday or leaving a i sense of duty has come first and four in— sense of duty has come first and four in ten— sense of duty has come first and four in ten have _ sense of duty has come first and four in ten have not _ sense of duty has come first and four in ten have not had - sense of duty has come first and four in ten have not had space i sense of duty has come first andj four in ten have not had space in the hospitalist_ four in ten have not had space in the hospitalist of— four in ten have not had space in the hospitalist of a _ four in ten have not had space in the hospitalist of a proper- four in ten have not had space in| the hospitalist of a proper break. so, the hospitalist of a proper break. so. this— the hospitalist of a proper break. so. this has— the hospitalist of a proper break. so, this has taken _ the hospitalist of a proper break. so, this has taken its— the hospitalist of a proper break. so, this has taken its toll. - the hospitalist of a proper break. | so, this has taken its toll. there's also an— so, this has taken its toll. there's also an element _ so, this has taken its toll. there's also an element of— so, this has taken its toll. there's also an element of posttraumaticl also an element of posttraumatic stress _ also an element of posttraumatic stress disorder— also an element of posttraumatic stress disorder and _ also an element of posttraumatic stress disorder and what - also an element of posttraumatic

stress disorder and what they. also an element of posttraumatic| stress disorder and what they had also an element of posttraumatic i stress disorder and what they had to witness _ stress disorder and what they had to witness there — stress disorder and what they had to witness. there have _ stress disorder and what they had to witness. there have been— stress disorder and what they had to witness. there have been the - witness. there have been the visitors — witness. there have been the visitors and _ witness. there have been the visitors and hospitals - witness. there have been the visitors and hospitals and - witness. there have been the - visitors and hospitals and doctors and nurses— visitors and hospitals and doctors and nurses have _ visitors and hospitals and doctors and nurses have also _ visitors and hospitals and doctors and nurses have also been - visitors and hospitals and doctorsj and nurses have also been having smart _ and nurses have also been having smart pads — and nurses have also been having smart pads so _ and nurses have also been having smart pads so that _ and nurses have also been having smart pads so that patients - and nurses have also been having smart pads so that patients can i smart pads so that patients can communicate _ smart pads so that patients can communicate with _ smart pads so that patients can communicate with the - smart pads so that patients can communicate with the loved . smart pads so that patients can i communicate with the loved ones. smart pads so that patients can - communicate with the loved ones. it really— communicate with the loved ones. it really has _ communicate with the loved ones. it really has been _ communicate with the loved ones. it really has been an _ communicate with the loved ones. it really has been an emotionally- really has been an emotionally challenging _ really has been an emotionally challenging period _ really has been an emotionally challenging period and - really has been an emotionally challenging period and one - really has been an emotionally challenging period and one in. really has been an emotionally- challenging period and one in which we do _ challenging period and one in which we do need — challenging period and one in which we do need to— challenging period and one in which we do need to look— challenging period and one in which we do need to look after— challenging period and one in which we do need to look after our- we do need to look after our workforce _ we do need to look after our workforce by— we do need to look after our workforce by moving - we do need to look after our workforce by moving ahead. j we do need to look after our- workforce by moving ahead. iiiiilho workforce by moving ahead. who tuards workforce by moving ahead. who guards the _ workforce by moving ahead. guards the guards, who treats workforce by moving ahead.“ guards the guards, who treats the treaters is also a really serious issue within the health service and you've got a really proportionate, the sum of your effort in terms of sustaining your colleagues. i5 sustaining your colleagues. i3 really interesting when you talk to a mental health trust in the first thing that they go straight for his their concern for their workforce in their concern for their workforce in the recognise, they cannot provide the recognise, they cannot provide the service of the need to provide or treat patients, unless they've actually got a fit and healthy workforce. and they're really worried about what's going on over the last few months as opposed to, they're looking really, really hard to provide the maximum level of support, but part of the problem. is

that we do not have enough people and set the nhs and we have 100,000 vacancies. and when you experience the kind of intense experience in other parts of our national lives like the armed forces, they rotate, they absolutely come over you've done your tour of duty and seen some really interesting things, you don't leave people on the front lines. it's a good illustration of how we need to look after our workforce here and see that it is a legitimate constraint stop by b of about three minutes left before the end of the programme, ijust want minutes left before the end of the programme, i just want to try and lift our collective spirits by talking what's on the positive things that are being done. let me ask you, the good news, but the good practice things that you have heard that have given you encouragement about the imaginative ways some doctors are trying to mitigate the effects, both of the stresses. ida effects, both of the stresses. no doubt that technology can play an important — doubt that technology can play an important part— doubt that technology can play an important part and _

doubt that technology can play an important part and we _ doubt that technology can play an important part and we have - doubt that technology can play an important part and we have seenl important part and we have seen amazing — important part and we have seen amazing work— important part and we have seen amazing work done _ important part and we have seen amazing work done in _ important part and we have seen amazing work done in the - important part and we have seen - amazing work done in the supporting of many— amazing work done in the supporting of many patients _ amazing work done in the supporting of many patients in— amazing work done in the supporting of many patients in looking - amazing work done in the supporting of many patients in looking at - amazing work done in the supporting of many patients in looking at the i of many patients in looking at the symmetry. — of many patients in looking at the symmetry. hardly— of many patients in looking at the symmetry, hardly any— of many patients in looking at the symmetry, hardly any patients i of many patients in looking at the i symmetry, hardly any patients have had this— symmetry, hardly any patients have had this before _ symmetry, hardly any patients have had this before the _ symmetry, hardly any patients have had this before the pandemic- symmetry, hardly any patients have had this before the pandemic and i symmetry, hardly any patients have i had this before the pandemic and now we are _ had this before the pandemic and now we are able _ had this before the pandemic and now we are able to — had this before the pandemic and now we are able to really _ had this before the pandemic and now we are able to really look _ had this before the pandemic and now we are able to really look after - we are able to really look after patients — we are able to really look after patients where _ we are able to really look after patients where they _ we are able to really look after patients where they can - we are able to really look after i patients where they can measure their— patients where they can measure their own — patients where they can measure their own oxygen _ patients where they can measure their own oxygen levels - patients where they can measure their own oxygen levels in - patients where they can measure their own oxygen levels in the i patients where they can measure i their own oxygen levels in the small example _ their own oxygen levels in the small example the — their own oxygen levels in the small example. the real— their own oxygen levels in the small example. the real scope _ their own oxygen levels in the small example. the real scope to - their own oxygen levels in the small example. the real scope to expand i example. the real scope to expand that is _ example. the real scope to expand that is that — example. the real scope to expand that is that there _ example. the real scope to expand that is that there two _ example. the real scope to expand that is that there two initiatives - that is that there two initiatives that is that there two initiatives that we — that is that there two initiatives that we think _ that is that there two initiatives that we think would _ that is that there two initiatives that we think would be - that is that there two initiatives that we think would be a - that is that there two initiatives that we think would be a huge i that we think would be a huge difference _ that we think would be a huge difference. that _ that we think would be a huge difference. that will— that we think would be a huge difference. that will enable i difference. that will enable hospitals _ difference. that will enable hospitals to _ difference. that will enable hospitals to prescribe - difference. that will enable - hospitals to prescribe electronic patients— hospitals to prescribe electronic patients so— hospitals to prescribe electronic patients so they _ hospitals to prescribe electronic patients so they can _ hospitals to prescribe electronic patients so they can pick- hospitals to prescribe electronic patients so they can pick up - hospitals to prescribe electronic patients so they can pick up the| patients so they can pick up the prescriptions— patients so they can pick up the prescriptions in— patients so they can pick up the prescriptions in the _ patients so they can pick up the prescriptions in the local- patients so they can pick up the - prescriptions in the local pharmacy. those _ prescriptions in the local pharmacy. those of _ prescriptions in the local pharmacy. those of a — prescriptions in the local pharmacy. those of a huge _ prescriptions in the local pharmacy. those of a huge amount _ prescriptions in the local pharmacy. those of a huge amount of- prescriptions in the local pharmacy. those of a huge amount of time - those of a huge amount of time because — those of a huge amount of time because of— those of a huge amount of time because of the _ those of a huge amount of time because of the moment, - those of a huge amount of time| because of the moment, they're coming — because of the moment, they're coming to— because of the moment, they're coming to the _ because of the moment, they're coming to the gp _ because of the moment, they're coming to the gp in _ because of the moment, they're coming to the gp in order- because of the moment, they're coming to the gp in order to - because of the moment, they're coming to the gp in order to get because of the moment, they're . coming to the gp in order to get his subscription— coming to the gp in order to get his subscription because _ coming to the gp in order to get his subscription because they've - coming to the gp in order to get his subscription because they've had i coming to the gp in order to get his subscription because they've had a i subscription because they've had a consultation— subscription because they've had a consultation with _ subscription because they've had a consultation with the _ subscription because they've had a consultation with the hospital. - subscription because they've had aj consultation with the hospital. and again. _ consultation with the hospital. and again, hospitalist _ consultation with the hospital. and again, hospitalist of _ consultation with the hospital. and again, hospitalist of the _ consultation with the hospital. and again, hospitalist of the ability - consultation with the hospital. and again, hospitalist of the ability to i again, hospitalist of the ability to request— again, hospitalist of the ability to request investigations _ again, hospitalist of the ability to request investigations and - again, hospitalist of the ability to - request investigations and community settings _ request investigations and community settings and _ request investigations and community settings and begin— request investigations and community settings and begin it, _ request investigations and community settings and begin it, it— request investigations and community settings and begin it, it would - request investigations and community settings and begin it, it would make l settings and begin it, it would make a huge _ settings and begin it, it would make a huge difference _ settings and begin it, it would make a huge difference in _ settings and begin it, it would make a huge difference in patients- settings and begin it, it would make a huge difference in patients lives, i a huge difference in patients lives, not having — a huge difference in patients lives, not having to — a huge difference in patients lives, not having to travel _ a huge difference in patients lives, not having to travel to _ a huge difference in patients lives, not having to travel to hospital, i not having to travel to hospital, not having to travel to hospital, not having — not having to travel to hospital, not having to _ not having to travel to hospital, not having to go _ not having to travel to hospital, not having to go to _ not having to travel to hospital, not having to go to the - not having to travel to hospital, not having to go to the gp - not having to travel to hospital, not having to go to the gp for i not having to go to the gp for request— not having to go to the gp for request form. _ not having to go to the gp for request form, but _ not having to go to the gp for request form, but be - not having to go to the gp for request form, but be able - not having to go to the gp for request form, but be able toi not having to go to the gp for i request form, but be able to be treated — request form, but be able to be treated in— request form, but be able to be treated in a _ request form, but be able to be treated in a more _ request form, but be able to be treated in a more local- request form, but be able to be treated in a more local and - request form, but be able to be i treated in a more local and remote manner~ _ treated in a more local and remote manner. �*

treated in a more local and remote manner. . ., , , ., ., ., manner. and examples of that that have struck — manner. and examples of that that have struck you? _ manner. and examples of that that have struck you? , _ manner. and examples of that that have struck you? , i _ manner. and examples of that that have struck you? , i echo _ manner. and examples of that that have struck you? , i echo that - have struck you? , i echo that remote services _ have struck you? , i echo that remote services and - have struck you? , i echo that remote services and many - have struck you? , i echo that remote services and many do| have struck you? , i echo that. remote services and many do not have struck you? , i echo that - remote services and many do not find remote _ remote services and many do not find remote services and many do not find remote services well at all. but they— remote services well at all. but they do— remote services well at all. but they do work for them and make them available _ they do work for them and make them available which is been really life—changing to them and hopefully, will be _ life—changing to them and hopefully, will be received in the future is much _ will be received in the future is much more choice, so people can choose _ much more choice, so people can choose that — much more choice, so people can choose that works for them and the ability— choose that works for them and the ability of— choose that works for them and the ability of 20 47 around—the—clock support— ability of 20 47 around—the—clock support by— ability of 20 47 around—the—clock support by telephone, this is something that we have really struggled with over the years to get set up _ struggled with over the years to get set up in _ struggled with over the years to get set up in a — struggled with over the years to get set up in a got set up another month during _ set up in a got set up another month during the _ set up in a got set up another month during the pandemic. and we can work on it and _ during the pandemic. and we can work on it and that — during the pandemic. and we can work on it and that has been fantastic. so, on it and that has been fantastic. so. the _ on it and that has been fantastic. so, the people can get in touch with mental— so, the people can get in touch with mental health services and actually, importantly, i think during the pandemic, people have begun to recognise — pandemic, people have begun to recognise the importance of mental health— recognise the importance of mental health and — recognise the importance of mental health and how to stay well, but also that — health and how to stay well, but also that mental health more

broadlym _ also that mental health more broadly- - -_ also that mental health more broadl ., ., broadly... looking after each other, eah, broadly... looking after each other, yeah, absolutely. _ broadly... looking after each other, yeah, absolutely. it's _ broadly. .. looking after each other, yeah, absolutely. it's essential- yeah, absolutely. it's essential sto- but yeah, absolutely. it's essential stop but it _ yeah, absolutely. it's essential stop but it should _ yeah, absolutely. it's essential stop but it should be _ yeah, absolutely. it's essential stop but it should be central, l stop but it should be central, karen — stop but it should be central, karen |_ stop but it should be central, karen. , ., ., stop but it should be central, karen. i. ., , , karen. i will give you a simple answer, technology _ karen. i will give you a simple answer, technology one. - karen. i will give you a simple l answer, technology one. people karen. i will give you a simple - answer, technology one. people on the waiting lists and her colleagues have been doing some amazing things to use technology to get through larger numbers of cataract operations much more quickly. a victim role of that technology much more whiter, we can get through it quicker. a very quick storyjust to come i stuck into a chief executive of the on this week that said look, if i could crane and two mobile operating theatres and use them at the weekend and get patients from the weekend and get patients from the neighbouring trusts, it would make such a difference. but the key bit was that will cost them £15 million. and that is why some of it is actually quite simple, actually

expanding the capacity. but it is why it is good to be a plan as a team and we have to do all of the exciting ball radical things like the mobile operating theatres, but the mobile operating theatres, but the government has to come up with the government has to come up with the investment. thanks to sophie corlett from mind, chaand nagpaulfrom the bma and chris hopson from nhs providers. goodbye. you may have been caught in the downpours today. a real wash—out for some of us. especially across southwestern parts of the uk. friday will bring further showers but it will bring further showers but it will not be as widespread and for most of us, it's going to be a mostly trite day. so, the forecast than for this evening still shows some showers across the south and in fact, it's been prolonged rain

across the southwest of england and parts of wales rather than showers. showers have occurred a little bit further north and i think by the end of the night, it is cloudy and damp more than anything and frost free, temperatures between six and 9 degrees. an overcast start to friday for many of us, particularly across the eastern half of the uk and through the afternoon, we will have some sunshine, but showers will break out across western and southern areas. some of the showers once again could be heavy and they could have hail and thunder. generally speaking, i think it is a quieter day.

this is bbc news. in four days, we have moved from street protest to the brink of all—out war as israelis and palestinians trade rockets — and insults. now there's a new problem. jewish and arab israelis are fighting each other on the streets of israel — it's a new dynamic that brings it with it the threat of civil war. tonight, palestinian militants fired more rockets as israel continue it punishing bombing in gaza. official figures show more than 4,000 died in india from covid, for the second day in a row. india's highly infectious new variant has now been found in 40 other countries. this is not an indian problem. what is happening here could affect the

world's ability to