and, get your best sequins out, the final rehearsals are done — and the pyrotechnics are ready — the eurovision finalists compete tonight after a pandemic—enforced break. now on bbc news, it's dateline with martine croxall. hello, i'm martine croxall. welcome to dateline london. my first time hosting the programme, which is very exciting! hold onto your hats. this week, we discuss the successes and failures of the worldwide vaccination programmes against covid—19, and the conflict between israel and hamas.

our guests are the french journalist agnes poirier of the magazine, l'express, the american journalist and broadcasterjef mcallister. and with me, suitably distanced in the studio, the bbc�*s science editor, david shukman. welcome to you all. david, yourfirst time back in the building for over a year. very strange feeling but very nice. and i hear your mum is an avid dateline viewer, so she will be especially pleased to see you here for the first time! she is a huge fan so i cannot make any mistakes. in the uk and the us, the vaccination programme against the pandemic has been hugely successful, but what about elsewhere? have policymakers listened to the scientists? vaccinations for some will be the key to travelling again. fewer planes flying did some environmental good but as more flights are scheduled,

what further damage are we doing to our climate? this is another area where scientists and policymakers may not be on the same page. will this crisis be discussed at the upcoming g7 summit in the uk? and are there any signs that we are prepared to suffer inconveniences, sacrifices, if you like, to avoid a global warming catastrophe? agnes, let me start with you. how well do you think european policymakers have followed the science when it comes to vaccinations? well, it's a balancing act if you're a head of state or government. of course, they've been listening to science. they must be feeling as if that is all they— they must be feeling as if that is all they have been doing for 18 months — but there is science and there's politics. you have to make political decisions. it's interesting to look at the different countries in europe, because they've gone about their lockdowns in very different ways.

sometimes with very good results, but different methods. but i'm very happy to report to dateline that the vaccine roll—out in continental europe is doing extremely well. after the catastrophic first two weeks, months i would say, and yesterday, the french president announced that anyone from the age of 18 was now able to get vaccinated in france. surprise, surprise. i'm sure you rememberthe french were leading in anti—vaccine feeling in the western world, but it's not the case any more. perhaps because at first they were denied their vaccine, and as you know, they — we — are quite contrary and as soon as there was no vaccine, they wanted it.

now the latest poll showed that 70% of french people want to get a vaccination. whereas it was only 40% last summer. so, good news all around. i wouldn't dream of calling the french contrary, but you may. jef, i was reading today about the rather different infection rates between the different states of america. i think north dakota is still pretty high, and vermont, a really tiny state in comparison, has much lower rates. how much of this is down to vaccination uptake? some of it is vaccination uptake. some of it is the residue - of the different mask—wearing policies and general public health l awareness and interest of the state governments, which were, especially in the trump - administration, fundamentally in charge of what happened. l all the states now, at least- according to the best knowledge,

can get essentially all i the vaccines they want. so, it's not any longer a question of supply and demand, _ it is a question of demand. there are regional differences, even political difference, in uptake. - there is an anti—vax _ stronghold among republicans, there was a period when 50% of republican men said - they would not get a vaccine. we're now down to 20% of republicans saying they will not get a vaccine - as opposed to 29% a month ago. again, i think as more and more. people's neighbours are getting it and some states are offering lottery prizes of $1 million _ to people who get vaccinated. the public enthusiasm is building. i think it will even out over time, and really, what is remarkable . is how good these vaccines are. unlike flu vaccines - and other sorts of vaccines,

the possibility of reinfection - and going to the hospital or death, it's almost a magic bullet. i think the success of the science is leading people to understand i that this is a very good thing to do. _ david, there were some environmental benefits to the lockdown. far fewer flights going around the world, but how much of that are we going to hold onto once the planes take off? the new figures that have come from china show that their emissions have shot back right up again, and this comes at a time when the science has never been clearer, that by 2030 — to have the best chance to avoid the worst effects of global warming — emissions globally need to come down by nearly half in the next nine years. they've been going in the wrong direction. i think where the ground has shifted dramaticallyjust in the last, really, couple of months is that suddenly, you've got one bigger

economy after another declaring they will try to cut their own emissions by roughly half by 2030. joe biden with the states, the eu, japan and korea, likewise, the uk has set a target of 70% cut by 2035. this changes the calculations about global warming, but it does mean that all these governments are now under massive pressure to deliver these. it's one thing to declare a promise, and another to get into shape and position the policies that get you there. and i think the big difference now is that suddenly, you have a timeframe which makes it very difficult for the current crop of politicians to wriggle out of. if you've got a target for 2050, you won't be in power by the time that comes around. if you've got a target of 2030, well, whatever happens right now

could rebound on you. will we all start to change our habits because we're on that very edge of the cliff? or is it going to have to be legislated to make a change? i think it'll be a mix of everything. some of the changes that have reduced emissions already have happened without us noticing. so, all our electric appliances use far less power than they used to ten years ago. electricity demand has fallen as a result of that. without really realising, we put on the light switch, our power in the uk is more and more renewable, rather than coming from coal. but the harder things remain to be tackled — how we heat our homes, how we get around. these will be much tougher to sort. agnes, how willing are people in france to embrace the idea that life is going to have to change, our choices are going to have to be different? well, it takes two to tango. basically, i don't know if you're aware, but a month ago,

there was this momentous decision that french mps passed. it is now a law. france has banned domestic flights on short routes that can be travelled by train in under three hours, but that's momentous. it's the first time any major economy has actually prohibited domestic flights or short routes, and straightaway that could have an impact. it represents about 15% of french domestic flights. i was looking at figures in the uk. every year, there are half a million flights between london and manchester when actually, it only takes two hours by train. i think what we've learned as citizens and consumers during the pandemic is that mass tourism and mass air travelling, perhaps we've reached our limits. and we have to be ready to take

the train in europe. it's so enjoyable anyway. at least in countries like france or italy,. _ at least in countries like france or italy,. it's heavily subsidised, it doesn't cost much, and that's the way we used to do it. why not do it on sort routes? luxembourg introduced free public travel last year for everybody, which is something almost unimaginable here. jef, we knowjoe biden has a very different view of climate change, global warming from mr trump, but how easy is it going to be getting stuff through congress? well, nothing is easy for him. he's got to split congress and he's going to have to be lucky. - i think if he tried to impose a carbon— i think if he tried to impose a carbon tax. _ i think if he tried to impose a carbon tax, we _ i think if he tried to impose a carbon tax, we would - i think if he tried to impose a carbon tax, we would sit - i think if he tried to impose a carbon tax, we would sit a i i think if he tried to impose a | carbon tax, we would sit a lot i think if he tried to impose a i carbon tax, we would sit a lot of difficulty — ithink, though, the interesting

thing is how much the ground i is changing and renewables in particular. _ the technology is really, really advancing quickly. j biden this week and drove an - electric ford f150 pick—up truck. this is not a car for| harvard professors. this is a pick—up truck- for people who herd cattle, and he said "this i sucker moves fast." i it's going to be perhaps the first. mass—market electric vehicle that's going to be a success- in places outside the coast. and it's cheap relatively, and this is the way that energy efficiency - is going to happen. people don't mind more efficient buildings and better cars, - and we can't change it from just not riding on aeroplanes. _ the international energy- association, the group set up after 0pec, has a path to energy by 2050. i

a path to carbon neutrality. they say that only 4% - of the reduction has to come from lifestyle changes from us. the rest of it can come from big structural changes that, - with intelligent governments, should be actually quite - straightforward to implement. i know the politics are hard. perhaps especially in the us. but i do think it's a period - of optimism for climate change. how lovely to have some optimism at this point. let's turn our attention now to the middle east and the ceasefire in the gaza strip after 11 days of violence with both sides claiming victory. israel play doesn't think it has diminished hamas enough, they still have rockets aimed at israeli targets. there is also the major bombing this time of violence between jews there is also the major bombing this time of violence betweenjews and arabs, something not seen in the region for many years. the truce faced an early test on friday when fresh clashes broke out at the al aqsa mosque in occupied east jerusalem. david, the casualties on each side are starkly different,

at least 2113 people killed in gaza. asjeremy bowen has been saying. it's an asymmetric war. you have a wealthy side on one side and an impoverished force on the other. one of the things that goes towards leveling that imbalance is rockets. we've seen that in the second world war and the first gulf war. if one side can fire rockets from mobile launchers that are hard to detect until the launch happens, there can be an advantage. i think right now purely in military terms, the hamas commanders have tried to make an assessment that of all the rockets they launched, 90% were intercepted by the israelis.

10% did cause fatalities and injuries. they'll be trying to work out how many remaining rockets they have, how quickly they can get back into the business of making more. and on the israeli side, they're going to be doing those assessments as well to try to work out how much of a threat hamas remains with its rockets. i saw a report earlier today that the mayors of two of the israeli towns hit hardest by hamas rockets objected to the cease—fire because they said the threat remains. sderot and ashkelon. indeed. for them, they're very alive to the threat that the hamas commanders have of continuing this. of course, we understand that iran supplies hamas. they build tunnels and joe biden has offered to replenish what israel has used during this recent conflict. yes, to bolster the standard of israeli protection, and within gaza, from what we understand from what's

been reported, it seems that the rockets are assembled within gaza, probably with components smuggled in, almost certainly with iranian guidance and help. the extent to which the attacks on the tunnels have disrupted that process we'll have to wait and see. there were clashes injerusalem and other parts of israel as well. you must remember that 20% of the population of israel are arab—israelis. these clashes, though, are civilian against civilian, not hamas against the state of israel. a very different dynamic. yes, and that's quite new. i think in the last 11 days, there's been some reasons to be optimistic, but also many more to be

pessimistic about the future. the slight hope is diplomacy's back. but we can also see joe biden is quite stuck in his approach to the crisis. he was quite hesitant, and there are many voices in the democratic party who want him to be much tougher with israel. the un could come back on the world stage and be much more dynamic and participate much more than he did in the last four years of trump. and indeed, france pushed for a solution under the un security council. of course, europe is very concerned. every time there is tension in the middle _ every time there is tension in the middle east, we can see pro—palestinian protests in the streets — pro—palestinian protests in the streets of— pro—palestinian protests in the streets of paris.

the interior minister in france had to ban protests, which took place anyway. we saw some very anti—semitic slogans, but also attacks. and this is becoming more and more recurrent in europe, and that's a great concern. now, the problem is the two—state solution is dead. i think that's the next step for world diplomacy. something that struck me which is very sad is that only a couple weeks ago, three weeks ago, there were talks of the new government in israel for the first time the participation of an independent arab party. now, this is also dead in the water. netanyahu is here to stay. there have been four

elections in the last years. there might be another one. israeli democracy is affected. what is the next solution? the two—state solution is a thing of the past. we know as well thatjoe biden has a very different approach to foreign policy from donald trump. but the us vetoed the french cease—fire proposal, while at the same time putting forward one of his own. can you explain that? yeah, i think this is - the traditional role of the us in middle east policy—making. 0r israeli—palestinian fighting. this actually reminding me of times on the aeroplane i with the previous secretaries of state going to tel- aviv and jerusalem. what biden's people are saying about this is he has a long - relationship with netanyahu. he has said proudly he once sent

netanyahu an autographed picture |with "i don't agree with the damn| thing you say, but i love you." he thought not ratcheting up- the pressure publicly on netanyahu, not as john kerry did during. the last israeli foray into gaza, going in and failing | to get a cease—fire, he thought doing that behind—the—scenes might work. he was a subcontractor— of the republican party under both the 0bama and the trump administration. _ there was some leverage biden had to play against netanyahu. - whether they had any i real movement possible, | the two—state solution seems dead, | they do seem to be making progress towards an iran deal, - which will require israel not to blow it up. maybe there's some room for things

to expand after this _ little bit of peacemaking. l i'm not optimistic in this case, i but you have to start somewhere. just quickly, how likely is it do you both think that there will be more nations around the world that are recognising palestine? it will begin with the israelis - making peace with the gulf states rather than the other way around. i don't think the us will be i as against it as it used to be. i think the landscape - is changing there in congress and in public opinion, i so maybe there's more room without irritating i the americans to do so. it's inflammatory to the israelis as well, isn't it, agnes? do you think it's more likely that palestine will get more recognition? well, there's a problem with discriminating

against palestinians and being second—rate citizens, so this will have to be addressed. but of course, israel doesn't listen to europe, it listens only to washington. so the ball is in biden's court. before we go, i would like to ask each of you if there's one subject we all ought to be talking about but are not? jef, first? this is where you get to stretch your legs and go off—piste. it's like a jam sessions for news. this is not exactly not talked about — ijust want to register my fury- at bitcoin, a scam, a ponzi scheme where if it goes up 30% a day, the mining of bitcoin - is using half the electrical output of great britain every day -

to produce these coins that have no value for anybody— except terrorists and drug dealers. regular currencies are perfectly effective. - they're not underpinned by something like gold. but i was talking to a protection officer the other day about how you can buy an environmentally friendly bitcoin. it is alleged you can. it all depends on where the power is generated. that's all it comes down to. you have to do your homework in order to be environmentally friendly. i don't understand it, do you? sorry? bitcoin, do you understand it well enough to invest? i know nothing about bitcoin, so i would not approach... i wouldn't come close to bitcoin. stick to the euro. what's the story that you'd like to draw our attention to?

it's like bitcoin, we talked about it a bit, but it was suchjoy to go back to a museum and an art gallery this weekend. it was the same in france as in britain. they are reopening. and we learn... 0ne lockdown after another, we learn things. during the first lockdown in france, book shops, for example, were not deemed essential, but a few months later, a decree was passed where they were indeed essential. the second lockdown was so much better because book shops, wine shops, chocolate shops and florists were deemed essential, and that changed. for the next lockdown, if or when there is one, i would urge governments in europe to open museums, because i think it would do a lot of good for the mental health of our nation. you are surrounded, you don't have

to buy stuff and are big places. you can open the windows and be socially distanced, and it's essential to me. so i've been very happy this week because i've returned to big museums in london. just very briefly, what did you miss, jef? in lockdown? yeah. people, mostly. i agree about museums and culture. it gets forgotten too easily, - and it is fantastic to see the blood getting back into circulation of cultural life. _ i'm sure you missed coming into broadcasting house. of course, the camaraderie, the banter. i think i've been more efficient working at home. you can get on with things, but i do miss the social contact. if i could just say, i've got a rant, something we should do more

on — plastic waste. we've forgotten about it with covid and climate change, but the plastic waste problem is getting worse, not better. and i'm withjef, having a little fume about that. i'm sure that is partly because we have been using single use plastic small and masks that you find everywhere. yes, you find them everywhere. there's a website that gathers pictures of discarded masks. they've been found on coral reefs on bali, but that'sjust part of the problem. the biggest problem is the whole system of retail and of production and of the petrochemical industries and the way we throw away culture. that's been talked about, and david attenborough has sounded off for some time. there have been some changes, but i think we've perhaps taken our eye off the ball a little bit. that's something i think we need more focus on. rant over. not very ranty at all. i know this is probably unorthodox, but i would like to tell you all about a story i think deserves far more attention.

it's about the town of northampton. northampton and peterborough, in england. they have settled a long—standing disagreement over the name of a river's pronunciation. if you live in northampton, they say the river need. in peterborough, it's the river nene. how did they spell this? northampton won. in a game of croquet. isn't that a civilised way? that brings us to the end of dateline london for this week. thank you to our guests. and to our science editor david shukman. thank you for watching and do join shaun ley next week, same time, same place. i survived it! goodbye.

after yesterday's strong winds and heavy rain the weekend's weather is looking a little bit more optimistic. certainly today we have drier and brighter weather than the last few days. and crucially, it is less windy. still a few showers in the forecast so it will be dry across the board, but some usable weather between any showers. here is the area of low pressure, and all that cloud that swirled around it yesterday all now clearing towards the east. that was what brought us the really heavy rain and strong winds, low pressure still close enough to bring breezy conditions around eastern scotland and eastern england. but with higher pressure starting to build in the west, things will improve through the day. sunshine initially for scotland and northern ireland

will filter its way further south and east across england and wales through the afternoon. still a few scattered showers bubbling up here and there, especially for parts of central and eastern england and northern ireland, as well. temperatures of about ten to 15 degrees so in the sunny spells between any showers some people miss them altogether, it will feel reasonably pleasant. into the evening, some heavy showers initially towards the east. but they will ease away overnight with things becoming dry for most with long clear spells. quite a chilly night, could be a touch of grass frost across parts of scotland and northern england, just about frost—free further south. during the day on sunday, after that cool start, there will be more rain. it moves slowly from west to eat, so some dry weather before it arrives. breezy later in the day because another area of low pressure moves in, quite a few isobars wrapped around that area of low pressure as well. but for the bulk of the day, quite a bit of central and eastern scotland, eastern side of england, stays largely dry. sunshine around, we have the band of fairly heavy rain initially for northern ireland pushing into western parts of britain

through the afternoon. in the sunny spells, 1a degrees or so, but if you're stuck under the rain, more like 10 or 11 degrees. still not especially warm for this stage in may. into monday, the main band of rain clears from the east but lingers across scotland, elsewhere a day sunshine and heavy showers, could be the odd rumble of thunder mixed in. still relatively cool, around 13 or 1a degrees at best.

this is bbc news. these are the latest headlines in the uk and around the world. germany bans almost all travellers from the uk because of the rise in cases of the indian variant of covid—19. the vaccine programme rolls on in england. more than a million 32 and 33 year olds can now book theirjabs. the first convoys of humanitarian aid have arrived in gaza, hours after a ceasefire between israel and palestinian militants came into effect. it's understood that ministers are to give the bbc a chance to introduce its own changes, in response to the damning report on how martin bashir obtained his panorama interview with princess diana more than 25 years ago.

and get your best sequins out —