problems were a communication problems were a consequence of bad decisions and bad management. consequence of bad decisions and bad management-— consequence of bad decisions and bad management. where you are in charge ofthe management. where you are in charge of the communications _ management. where you are in charge of the communications at _ management. where you are in charge of the communications at this - management. where you are in charge of the communications at this point? l of the communications at this point? you are _ of the communications at this point? you are saying. _ of the communications at this point? you are saying. it_ of the communications at this point? you are saying, it is— of the communications at this point? you are saying, it is not— of the communications at this point? you are saying, it is not my- you are saying, it is not my problem. _ you are saying, it is not my problem. it_ you are saying, it is not my problem, it is— you are saying, it is not my problem, it is what - you are saying, it is not my problem, it is what i- you are saying, it is not my problem, it is what i was. you are saying, it is not my- problem, it is what i was given? ho. problem, it is what i was given? no. as i said earlier _ problem, it is what i was given? as i said earlier on, the only time of the election and leaving number ten in where i was engaged in communications was the period of late february until may and the prime minister becoming ill, or testing positive, on the friday. that kind of three, four week period. before that and after that, i was very little involved with communications because i fundamentally disagreed with the prime minister and what is good communications, how to do communications, how to do communications, how to do communications, how it should structured, how we approach the media on every single major thing we disagreed. i tried to use my time where i thought it could be better

spent. for example in the autumn, i spent... i mean nearly zero time in communications and huge amounts of time on the mass testing and on the defence review and on the economy and other things like that, procurement reform.- and other things like that, procurement reform. and other things like that, rocurement reform. ., procurement reform. how well it were ou procurement reform. how well it were you involved — procurement reform. how well it were you involved in — procurement reform. how well it were you involved in the _ procurement reform. how well it were you involved in the lockdown - you involved in the lockdown measures? _ you involved in the lockdown measures?— you involved in the lockdown measures? . ., ., .,~ measures? which one are you talking about, march...? _ measures? which one are you talking about, march...? the _ measures? which one are you talking about, march. . . ? the first _ measures? which one are you talking about, march. . . ? the first one. - measures? which one are you talking about, march...? the first one. i- about, march...? the first one. i was heavily _ about, march...? the first one. i was heavily involved _ about, march...? the first one. i was heavily involved in _ about, march...? the first one. i was heavily involved in the - about, march...? the first one. i| was heavily involved in the period between... if you are talking about the communication of the lockdown measures between, trying to formulate a plan b on the 13th and lockdown ten days later?— formulate a plan b on the 13th and lockdown ten days later? when the measures came _ lockdown ten days later? when the measures came out _ lockdown ten days later? when the measures came out about - lockdown ten days later? when the measures came out about what - lockdown ten days later? when the measures came out about what is l measures came out about what is involved — measures came out about what is involved in— measures came out about what is involved in what _ measures came out about what is involved in what you _ measures came out about what is involved in what you can - measures came out about what is involved in what you can do, - measures came out about what is involved in what you can do, whyl measures came out about what is i involved in what you can do, why we keep— involved in what you can do, why we keep two— involved in what you can do, why we keep two metres _ involved in what you can do, why we keep two metres apart, _ involved in what you can do, why we keep two metres apart, then - involved in what you can do, why we keep two metres apart, then we - involved in what you can do, why we keep two metres apart, then we canj keep two metres apart, then we can io keep two metres apart, then we can go to— keep two metres apart, then we can go to school, — keep two metres apart, then we can go to school, what _ keep two metres apart, then we can go to school, what understanding i keep two metres apart, then we canl go to school, what understanding did you have _ go to school, what understanding did you have about— go to school, what understanding did you have about where _ go to school, what understanding did you have about where we _ go to school, what understanding did you have about where we could - you have about where we could travel? —

i was heavily involved in that but the problem then, i had all the communications people screaming, we haven't got anything to explain to the public or what we have is contradictory, because we haven't got an actual plan. the problem wasn't in the communication team, the problem was what they were being given. the problem was what they were being liven. ~ ., ., the problem was what they were being liven. a, ., ., ., , _, the problem was what they were being liven. ., ., ., , given. moving on to a second point is, to ick given. moving on to a second point is, to pick on _ given. moving on to a second point is. to pick on on — given. moving on to a second point is, to pick up on evidence - given. moving on to a second point is, to pick up on evidence you - given. moving on to a second point is, to pick up on evidence you gave at the _ is, to pick up on evidence you gave at the start, — is, to pick up on evidence you gave at the start, adds _ is, to pick up on evidence you gave at the start, adds 11:09am, - is, to pick up on evidence you gave at the start, adds 11:09am, you - is, to pick up on evidence you gavel at the start, adds 11:09am, you said it is completely _ at the start, adds 11:09am, you said it is completely crazy— at the start, adds 11:09am, you said it is completely crazy that _ at the start, adds 11:09am, you said it is completely crazy that i - at the start, adds 11:09am, you said it is completely crazy that i should l it is completely crazy that i should be in _ it is completely crazy that i should be in such — it is completely crazy that i should be in such a — it is completely crazy that i should be in such a senior— it is completely crazy that i should be in such a senior position. - it is completely crazy that i should be in such a senior position. you i be in such a senior position. you realised — be in such a senior position. you realised it — be in such a senior position. you realised it was _ be in such a senior position. you realised it was a _ be in such a senior position. you realised it was a massive - be in such a senior position. you i realised it was a massive problem and yet _ realised it was a massive problem and yet you — realised it was a massive problem and yet you didn't _ realised it was a massive problem and yet you didn't take _ realised it was a massive problem and yet you didn't take action. - realised it was a massive problem. and yet you didn't take action. why didn't— and yet you didn't take action. why didn't you — and yet you didn't take action. why didn't you resign— and yet you didn't take action. why didn't you resign straightaway- and yet you didn't take action. why didn't you resign straightaway or i didn't you resign straightaway or you have — didn't you resign straightaway or you have the _ didn't you resign straightaway or you have the power— didn't you resign straightaway or you have the power to _ didn't you resign straightaway or you have the power to hire, - didn't you resign straightaway orl you have the power to hire, white don't _ you have the power to hire, white don't you — you have the power to hire, white don't you hire _ you have the power to hire, white don't you hire a _ you have the power to hire, white don't you hire a replacement- you have the power to hire, white don't you hire a replacement andi you have the power to hire, white - don't you hire a replacement and why didn't— don't you hire a replacement and why didn't you _ don't you hire a replacement and why didn't you say— don't you hire a replacement and why didn't you say to— don't you hire a replacement and why didn't you say to the _ don't you hire a replacement and why didn't you say to the pm _ don't you hire a replacement and why didn't you say to the pm you - don't you hire a replacement and why didn't you say to the pm you had - didn't you say to the pm you had reservations? _ didn't you say to the pm you had reservations? [— didn't you say to the pm you had reservations?—

reservations? i did hire several --eole reservations? i did hire several people into _ reservations? i did hire several people into number _ reservations? i did hire several people into number 10 - reservations? i did hire several people into number 10 to - reservations? i did hire several people into number 10 to try . reservations? i did hire several. people into number 10 to try and raise the quality of the team there, including myself. for example bringing in people to build the analytical private office and there. there are lots of different people i brought in to try and provide expertise and skills that i didn't have also didn't exist in number 10. and they did actually help. so in january, when i said we had to hire people, by september we did have that team and it did make a difference when we come onto the september decision is. terrible decisions were made but they were made for different reasons than they were in march. by then, there was a different set of skills and a different set of skills and a different set of people. in terms of why should i have resigned, as i said, arguably i should have

resigned in march, arguably, i should have resigned in may. and i should have resigned in may. and i should definitely have resigned in september. i should definitely have resigned in se tember. , should definitely have resigned in setember. , ., should definitely have resigned in september-— should definitely have resigned in setember. , ., ., september. i 'ust wonder what you draw the line — september. i just wonder what you draw the line on _ september. i just wonder what you draw the line on your _ september. i just wonder what you draw the line on your personal- draw the line on your personal responsibility— draw the line on your personal responsibility for— draw the line on your personal responsibility for decisions - draw the line on your personal. responsibility for decisions made. said she — responsibility for decisions made. said she didn't— responsibility for decisions made. said she didn't speak— responsibility for decisions made. said she didn't speak up - responsibility for decisions made. said she didn't speak up for- said she didn't speak up for worrying _ said she didn't speak up for worrying about— said she didn't speak up for worrying about the - said she didn't speak up for worrying about the fact - said she didn't speak up for worrying about the fact you| said she didn't speak up for- worrying about the fact you might go -et it worrying about the fact you might go get it wrong — worrying about the fact you might go get it wrong and _ worrying about the fact you might go get it wrong and people _ worrying about the fact you might go get it wrong and people may- worrying about the fact you might go get it wrong and people may die. - get it wrong and people may die. there _ get it wrong and people may die. there was— get it wrong and people may die. there was a _ get it wrong and people may die. there was a certain _ get it wrong and people may die. there was a certain infamous - get it wrong and people may die. i there was a certain infamous trip, and that— there was a certain infamous trip, and that had — there was a certain infamous trip, and that had huge _ there was a certain infamous trip, and that had huge influence - there was a certain infamous trip, and that had huge influence on . there was a certain infamous trip, i and that had huge influence on how people _ and that had huge influence on how people received _ and that had huge influence on how people received the _ and that had huge influence on how people received the lockdown. - and that had huge influence on how people received the lockdown. you| people received the lockdown. you said again — people received the lockdown. you said again it— people received the lockdown. you said again it was— people received the lockdown. you said again it was a _ people received the lockdown. you said again it was a problem - people received the lockdown. you said again it was a problem of- people received the lockdown. you said again it was a problem of thel said again it was a problem of the policy— said again it was a problem of the policy are — said again it was a problem of the policy are not— said again it was a problem of the policy are not the _ said again it was a problem of the policy are not the way— said again it was a problem of the policy are not the way it - said again it was a problem of the policy are not the way it was - policy are not the way it was messaged _ policy are not the way it was messaged across. _ policy are not the way it was messaged across. where . policy are not the way it was messaged across. where doj policy are not the way it was - messaged across. where do you draw the line _ messaged across. where do you draw the line for— messaged across. where do you draw the line for you — messaged across. where do you draw the line for you having _ messaged across. where do you draw the line for you having personal- the line for you having personal responsibility— the line for you having personal responsibility for— the line for you having personal responsibility for decisions - the line for you having personal responsibility for decisions in i responsibility for decisions in government— responsibility for decisions in government and _ responsibility for decisions in government and the - responsibility for decisions in government and the way- responsibility for decisions in government and the way you responsibility for decisions in - government and the way you conduct yourself? _ government and the way you conduct ourself? ,, ., government and the way you conduct ourself? ,, government and the way you conduct ourself? ~ , ., yourself? so... i thinki should robabl yourself? so... i thinki should probably explain _ yourself? so... i thinki should probably explain some - yourself? so... i thinki should probably explain some things i yourself? so... ithinki should- probably explain some things about those that were not put into the public domain at the time, in the rose garden. because that whole episode was definitely a major disaster for the government and for

the covid policy. i will explain something about it and why we got things so wrong. in autumn 2019, i had to move out of my house because of security threats for about six weeks. on the 28th of february, when i was dealing with the covid problem, on the friday night, i was in westminster and my wife called saint there is a gang of people outside sender going to break into the house and kill everyone in sight, she was alone at the time with our then three—year—old. at the time, i spoke to the pm and helen mcnamara about the situation and it was suggested that possibly i either move my family into government accommodation or move them off to family. on the 22nd of march, the

story happened which the lady mentioned earlier about that for quote from me implying that i was happy for everyone to die, which led to further problems. after that weekend, i then said to my wife, we've been discussing this for a month, we have to get out of here on friday. so before the whole thing happened with the prime minister being sick, my wife calling up on the friday and everything else, it had already been decided i was going to move my family out of london, regardless of the covid rules. that was discussed with people in the cabinet office and the private office. now, what happened is, because of this, we kept the whole thing very quiet, almost nobody in number 10 knew about it though because i didn't want the same problems to pop up and my parents' house in durham. when the story came out, the prime minister and i

agreed, when the first came out about me, much of the store was completely wrong, it suggested the police had spoken to me about my behaviour because of lockdown rules, which was completely false. the police had only spoken to me about security issues but the metre presented it as have i been talking to by the police for breaking long—term accruals, the whole story was crazy. the prime minister and i agreed that, because of the security things, we would basicallyjust stonewall the story and not say anything about it. i was extremely mindful of the problem that, when you talk about these things, you cause more trouble for yourself. a daugherty put my wife and child in the firing line so i said, i am not talking about this, we should shut our mouths about it, loads of this is wrong, we should ignore it. then on the monday, the pm was under so much pressure that he said this line

won't hold, we will have to do something about it. at this point, i made a terrible mistake, which i am extremely sorry about. what i should have said, in retrospect, i should have said, in retrospect, i should have called my wife and said, you and our boy are going to have to get out of london again, i will have to explain the truth about this whole thing. get out of london, i will hold a press conference. instead of that, we had a chaotic situation at number 10 where the prime minister said, we're going to have to do something, you will have to explain this. i said something, you will have to explain this. isaid i something, you will have to explain this. i said i will not expend the security situation otherwise will have my house smoked again. signs of giving the whole rose garden thing, where what i said was true but we left out a crucial part of it all. and the whole thing was a complete disaster. the truth is, it undermined public confidence in the whole thing, the truth is, when the

prime minister said on the monday we can't hold this line, we will have to explain things, if i'd just basically sent my family back out of london and said here's the truth to the public, i think people would have understood the situation. it was a terrible misjudgement not to do that. the prime minister got that wrong, i got that wrong, we both made a terrible mess of it or not demand. that hopefully explains that situation and makes it clear that i know that my misjudgement on it caused acute troubled. i deeply apologise for it. i’m caused acute troubled. i deeply apologise for it.— caused acute troubled. i deeply apologise for it. i'm sorry you felt threats to your _ apologise for it. i'm sorry you felt threats to your family _ apologise for it. i'm sorry you felt threats to your family and - apologise for it. i'm sorry you felt threats to your family and to - apologise for it. i'm sorry you felt threats to your family and to do i apologise for it. i'm sorry you felt| threats to your family and to do to yourself— threats to your family and to do to yourself and — threats to your family and to do to yourself and your— threats to your family and to do to yourself and your safety, - threats to your family and to do to yourself and your safety, no—one i yourself and your safety, no—one should _ yourself and your safety, no—one should feel — yourself and your safety, no—one should feel that. _ yourself and your safety, no—one should feel that. however, - yourself and your safety, no—one should feel that. however, this i yourself and your safety, no—onel should feel that. however, this is about— should feel that. however, this is about lessons _ should feel that. however, this is about lessons learned. _ should feel that. however, this is about lessons learned. one - should feel that. however, this is about lessons learned. one is - about lessons learned. one is talking — about lessons learned. one is talking about _ about lessons learned. one is talking about coming - about lessons learned. one is talking about coming down i about lessons learned. one is . talking about coming down terror about lessons learned. one is - talking about coming down terror in giving _ talking about coming down terror in giving the _ talking about coming down terror in giving the truth, _ talking about coming down terror in giving the truth, the _ talking about coming down terror in giving the truth, the second - talking about coming down terror in giving the truth, the second is, - giving the truth, the second is, with— giving the truth, the second is,

with regards— giving the truth, the second is, with regards to _ giving the truth, the second is, with regards to that, _ giving the truth, the second is, with regards to that, where - giving the truth, the second is, with regards to that, where dol giving the truth, the second is, - with regards to that, where do you see your— with regards to that, where do you see your personal— with regards to that, where do you see your personal responsibility i with regards to that, where do you j see your personal responsibility on this, the _ see your personal responsibility on this, the media _ see your personal responsibility on this, the media biz— see your personal responsibility on this, the media biz responsibility. this, the media biz responsibility on it— this, the media biz responsibility on it and — this, the media biz responsibility on it and government _ this, the media biz responsibility on it and government boats- on it and government boats responsibility— on it and government boats responsibility to _ on it and government boats responsibility to looking - on it and government boats responsibility to looking up| on it and government boats. responsibility to looking up to on it and government boats- responsibility to looking up to the people _ responsibility to looking up to the people who — responsibility to looking up to the people who are _ responsibility to looking up to the people who are being _ responsibility to looking up to the | people who are being represented responsibility to looking up to the - people who are being represented and making _ people who are being represented and making these — people who are being represented and making these tough _ people who are being represented and making these tough decisions - people who are being represented and making these tough decisions any- making these tough decisions any world _ making these tough decisions any world emergency? _ making these tough decisions any world emergency?— world emergency? zooming specifically _ world emergency? zooming specifically on _ world emergency? zooming specifically on this - world emergency? zooming | specifically on this particular episode or in general? fin specifically on this particular episode or in general? on this particular— episode or in general? on this particular episode, _ episode or in general? on this particular episode, because i episode or in general? on this i particular episode, because what episode or in general? on this - particular episode, because what we don't _ particular episode, because what we don't want _ particular episode, because what we don't want to — particular episode, because what we don't want to happen _ particular episode, because what we don't want to happen is _ particular episode, because what we don't want to happen is something l don't want to happen is something like this— don't want to happen is something like this that — don't want to happen is something like this that happens _ don't want to happen is something like this that happens again - don't want to happen is something like this that happens again that l like this that happens again that undermines _ like this that happens again that undermines public— like this that happens again that undermines public confidence. l like this that happens again that| undermines public confidence. if there _ undermines public confidence. if there is— undermines public confidence. if there is ever— undermines public confidence. if there is ever another— undermines public confidence. if there is ever another pandemic. undermines public confidence. if. there is ever another pandemic will need _ there is ever another pandemic will need to— there is ever another pandemic will need to learn — there is ever another pandemic will need to learn lessons _ there is ever another pandemic will need to learn lessons so _ there is ever another pandemic will need to learn lessons so that - there is ever another pandemic willj need to learn lessons so that these situations— need to learn lessons so that these situations are — need to learn lessons so that these situations are avoided. _ need to learn lessons so that these situations are avoided.— situations are avoided. think a fundamental _ situations are avoided. think a fundamental lesson _ situations are avoided. think a fundamental lesson is - situations are avoided. think a fundamental lesson is is - situations are avoided. think a fundamental lesson is is the i situations are avoided. think a - fundamental lesson is is the same as the fundamental lesson on sage and other things, openness is better. essentially, we take this decision because of a security problem and i didn't want to move my family again, andi didn't want to move my family again, and ifelt guilty didn't want to move my family again, and i felt guilty about the whole thing is well with my wife. fundamentally, that was a terrible mistake, it would have been much betterjust mistake, it would have been much better just to come mistake, it would have been much betterjust to come clean on the whole thing, tell the truth and

then, i think, whole thing, tell the truth and then, ithink, it whole thing, tell the truth and then, i think, it wouldn't have been then, i think, it wouldn't have been the fiasco it became. i guess the fundamental lesson is, the default and everything should be openness. if we defaulted to that on this, it would have been harderfor me in some way but would have been better for the country and that's what we should have done.— should have done. obviously, it is utterly unacceptable _ should have done. obviously, it is utterly unacceptable that - should have done. obviously, it is utterly unacceptable that you - should have done. obviously, it is utterly unacceptable that you and| utterly unacceptable that you and your family had to face threats but there is one thing i don't quite understand in your narrative. if you are moving yourfamily understand in your narrative. if you are moving your family out of london for security reasons, why did you move them back?— for security reasons, why did you move them back? essentially, i had been... move them back? essentially, i had been- -- during _ move them back? essentially, i had been... during that _ move them back? essentially, i had been... during that time _ move them back? essentially, i had been... during that time and - move them back? essentially, i had been... during that time and those | been... during that time and those two weeks, i had been lying there thinking i might die. iwas extremely ill. on the 12th, the day before we came back to london, i

could still hardly walk 50m and if it had been up to me, frankly, i would have let my wife and child behind, but she was extremely worried about me, she was worried about what happens if i collapse at home, by myself, who knows what state we're in. the medical advice would be that i shouldn't be rushing back to work, i should stay and rest, but the prime minister had literally merelyjust died, i was getting all this messages from everyone at saying the government's in freefall, if you can get back, come back. so i went back, she was worried about me and therefore she made the decision, i'm going to come back with you. we all had to make some difficult decisions at this time. if i could have done, i would have left them in durham, frankly. i

have left them in durham, frankly. i would like to explore this a little more. _ would like to explore this a little more. the — would like to explore this a little more, the durham trip, and also like to echo _ more, the durham trip, and also like to echo the _ more, the durham trip, and also like to echo the comments of the awfulness of a security risk to your family. _ awfulness of a security risk to your family. that — awfulness of a security risk to your family, that is never acceptable. one of— family, that is never acceptable. one of the — family, that is never acceptable. one of the issues around messaging was in _ one of the issues around messaging was in trust — one of the issues around messaging was in trust messaging from government, from you and officials. in government, from you and officials. in particular. — government, from you and officials. in particular, behaviour change. most— in particular, behaviour change. most of— in particular, behaviour change. most of the messaging during that time were the 3—word statements, and ithink— time were the 3—word statements, and i think the _ time were the 3—word statements, and i think the nationjust time were the 3—word statements, and i think the nation just wants to hear— i think the nation just wants to hear one — i think the nation just wants to hear one statement from you, the three-word — hear one statement from you, the three—word statements, i am sorry. i 'ust three—word statements, i am sorry. i just want— three—word statements, i am sorry. i just want to _ three—word statements, i am sorry. i just want to understand, why didn't you apologise in the rose garden? wellm _ you apologise in the rose garden? wellm as— you apologise in the rose garden? wellm as i— you apologise in the rose garden? well... as i think i can occur try to explain, there were multiple things going on in my head —— as i think i've trying to expend, there are multiple things going on my head, i should are multiple things going on my head, ishould have are multiple things going on my head, i should have done it at the time but ijust felt like i

couldn't. forthe time but ijust felt like i couldn't. for the recent i've described, ifelt my couldn't. for the recent i've described, i felt my behaviour in leaving london at the time was perfectly reasonable and other people in the cabinet office and the prime minister and everyone agreed with me that it was respond for me to move my family out of durham, so i was caught in this terrible mistake, the truth is that, no, i wasn't sorry about moving them from london and didn't think it was a mistake, i thought it was the right thing to do, but the problem is we were trapped in a situation where i was only telling part of the story, so the whole thing was just a disaster. obviously, iam so the whole thing was just a disaster. obviously, i am extremely sorry about the whole thing, the way it worked out, because the reality is, i had all the security problems again afterwards, twice further i had to move my family out of the house, again, because of problems at the house, despite the covid rules.

i stress for all the journalists watching, the further stories about me going back are false. it is true that i move my wife and child back out of london, despite the covid rules, but that was in discussion with the police. i did not leave london and all the stories about me being elsewhere and going wherever, though stories are all categorically false, but it is true that i moved my family. the truth is, i had all these problems again anyway, i didn't dodge them and that's why it would have been better tojust explain it at the time and i'm extremely sorry i didn't. why has it taken until today, i appreciate that, why has it taken until— appreciate that, why has it taken until this — appreciate that, why has it taken until this community —— committee to hear you _ until this community —— committee to hear you apologise. given that an apology— hear you apologise. given that an apology at — hear you apologise. given that an apology at that time would have lifted _ apology at that time would have lifted the pressure. rightly or wrongly. _ lifted the pressure. rightly or wrongly, you had done it and said,

that was— wrongly, you had done it and said, that was the right thing to do, move on. that was the right thing to do, move on whilst— that was the right thing to do, move on. whilst everyone else in the country— on. whilst everyone else in the country was following the guidance are not— country was following the guidance are not getting to go to funerals, not going — are not getting to go to funerals, not going to see their family, not tagging _ not going to see their family, not tagging their family not going to see their family, not tagging theirfamily and not going to see their family, not tagging their family and friends. the presumption, especially in the press _ the presumption, especially in the press was — the presumption, especially in the press was that you had sort of done it and _ press was that you had sort of done it and didn't— press was that you had sort of done it and didn't really have an apology to give _ it and didn't really have an apology to give i_ it and didn't really have an apology to rive. �* to give. ididn't... idid understand _ to give. ididn't... idid understand the - to give. ididn't... idid understand the time i to give. ididn't... idid| understand the time do to give. i didn't... i did _ understand the time do understand at the time people talking about being very upset and the relatives. my own uncle died in hospital of covid because of this whole problem of infection in hospitals. i did understand people's anger about it. all i can say is, after the complete tobacco around the whole thing, it just didn't thing like coming out

and explaining it all while i was still in government was a sensible thing to do. and then after i had left, the last thing i wanted to do was draw attention to the thing and my house again. as it is, i have moved my family out, because of this whole public thing, the whole street has got cameras around it. today is the day for just has got cameras around it. today is the day forjust getting the whole terrible story on everything out so everyone knows the reality. and hopefully this is a case study of how not to handle signed —— make something like this. it is clear in retrospect, once that it was clear that the prime minister would not hold the line, i should have just said, family out. i will explain the whole facts, and that's it. most of the country would have understood it. but we did the worst. with

it. but we did the worst. with retards it. but we did the worst. with regards to — it. but we did the worst. with regards to that, _ it. but we did the worst. with regards to that, did _ it. but we did the worst. with regards to that, did everyone in government and number ten appreciate the emotion of the country at that time _ the emotion of the country at that time in _ the emotion of the country at that time in my— the emotion of the country at that time. in my constituency, we had 1000 _ time. in my constituency, we had 1000 e—mails from people angry about this. 1000 e—mails from people angry about this was _ 1000 e—mails from people angry about this. was there a realisation of that— this. was there a realisation of that disconnect?— this. was there a realisation of that disconnect? yes, we knew as soon as the _ that disconnect? yes, we knew as soon as the whole _ that disconnect? yes, we knew as soon as the whole thing _ that disconnect? yes, we knew as soon as the whole thing it - that disconnect? yes, we knew as i soon as the whole thing it happened. i knew that the whole thing was a complete disaster. d0 i knew that the whole thing was a complete disaster.— i knew that the whole thing was a complete disaster. do you feel that ou are complete disaster. do you feel that you are unfairly _ complete disaster. do you feel that you are unfairly targeted _ complete disaster. do you feel that you are unfairly targeted by - complete disaster. do you feel that you are unfairly targeted by the - you are unfairly targeted by the media? — you are unfairly targeted by the media? it— you are unfairly targeted by the media? it felt to me that during that time — media? it felt to me that during that time there were quite a few cases— that time there were quite a few cases of— that time there were quite a few cases of high—profile individuals breaking — cases of high—profile individuals breaking the rules and various guidance _ breaking the rules and various guidance in various forms whether at the blurry— guidance in various forms whether at the blurry edge of it or completely, why do— the blurry edge of it or completely, why do you — the blurry edge of it or completely, why do you were targeted so much for a sustained _ why do you were targeted so much for a sustained period of time? | why do you were targeted so much for a sustained period of time? i have never complained _ a sustained period of time? i have never complained about _ a sustained period of time? i have never complained about the - a sustained period of time? i have. never complained about the media, a sustained period of time? i have i never complained about the media, i have never threatened to sue the media. if you are someone like me who is in the public eye and you say as often as i have in the last 20

years that as many critical things that i have about the media and how they cover important stories, they will throw things back at you when they have a chance to. fundamentally a lot of the media realise that there was a kind of tension in number ten between me and some of my team that wanted to try and change the culture of number ten away from what it has been for 30 years, which is essentially a press answering service, where everything is dedicated to the media. i regarded this as a disaster and i wanted to move the whole culture of governing away from that. and there was huge tension because the prime minister's you as you could not get a more diametrically perspective on it. he gets up, reads the papers, says what are they doing today? and then cannons around. the media realised that there is this tension going around, i was trying to diminish

their influence and therefore they want rid of me. from there point of view, rationally.— view, rationally. thank you for that. in relation _ view, rationally. thank you for that. in relation to _ view, rationally. thank you for that. in relation to the - view, rationally. thank you for that. in relation to the rose i view, rationally. thank you for - that. in relation to the rose garden in downing — that. in relation to the rose garden in downing street, the press conference they are. you have made some _ conference they are. you have made some big _ conference they are. you have made some big allegations today and we are yet— some big allegations today and we are yet to — some big allegations today and we are yet to see the evidence. you have _ are yet to see the evidence. you have raised _ are yet to see the evidence. you have raised on several occasions that around that time, prior to that time, _ that around that time, prior to that time, march, february, you had very serious _ time, march, february, you had very serious concerns. you had the uk's media _ serious concerns. you had the uk's media in_ serious concerns. you had the uk's media in front of you and some of the world's— media in front of you and some of the world's media, why did you not read some — the world's media, why did you not read some of the concerns then. giveh— read some of the concerns then. given that — read some of the concerns then. given that you knew in your mind at that point, — given that you knew in your mind at that point, so many lives were at risk _ that point, so many lives were at risk. ., that point, so many lives were at risk. . ., ., , , risk. that the government has my lans risk. that the government has my plans were _ risk. that the government has my plans were disastrous? _ risk. that the government has my plans were disastrous? yes. - risk. that the government has my plans were disastrous? yes. you | risk. that the government has my i plans were disastrous? yes. you are makin: plans were disastrous? yes. you are making those _ plans were disastrous? yes. you are making those claims _ plans were disastrous? yes. you are making those claims after— plans were disastrous? yes. you are making those claims after the - plans were disastrous? yes. you are| making those claims after the horses bolted _ making those claims after the horses bolted if _ making those claims after the horses bolted if that is the case, why did you not— bolted if that is the case, why did you not use — bolted if that is the case, why did you not use the platform at that time, _ you not use the platform at that time, i— you not use the platform at that time, i have grave concerns. i time, i have grave concerns. thought time, i have grave concerns. i thought the right thing to do was to

make the argument internally and change the prime minister's mind and change the prime minister's mind and change the prime minister's mind and change the official plan and shift it from plan at plan b. i started calling the media in the week of the ninth... as i started having meetings with people on the ninth, plan a is a disaster and we need to shift to plan b. flat plan a is a disaster and we need to shift to plan b.— plan a is a disaster and we need to shift to plan is.— shift to plan b. not calling. in the downin: shift to plan b. not calling. in the downing street _ shift to plan b. not calling. in the downing street garden, _ shift to plan b. not calling. in the downing street garden, you - shift to plan b. not calling. in the downing street garden, you had l shift to plan b. not calling. in the i downing street garden, you had what i felt downing street garden, you had what i felt was _ downing street garden, you had what i felt was a _ downing street garden, you had what i felt was a bit of a witchhunt approach. _ i felt was a bit of a witchhunt approach, journalists were asking a question— approach, journalists were asking a question after question, there was a platform _ question after question, there was a platform for you there safe, i am concerned — platform for you there safe, i am concerned that lives are at risk. we should _ concerned that lives are at risk. we should be _ concerned that lives are at risk. we should be changing things. what were your concerns to not raise that in public _ your concerns to not raise that in public at — your concerns to not raise that in public at that time, now given that you are _ public at that time, now given that you are saying you had major concerns? _ you are saying you had major concerns? it you are saying you had ma'or concerns? ,, ., concerns? it is a kind of constant roblem concerns? it is a kind of constant problem that _ concerns? it is a kind of constant problem that people _ concerns? it is a kind of constant problem that people like - concerns? it is a kind of constant problem that people like me - concerns? it is a kind of constant| problem that people like me have concerns? it is a kind of constant i problem that people like me have to wrestle with all the time. other people will have wrestled with that in this room. it is the tension between if you threaten to resign you have to be serious about it,

otherwise your bluff is called. if you leave, then you lose basically all control and you are essentially putting a gun to someone publicly. if you have stay then you have a chance to influence things. i thought at the time, as i said i thought at the time, as i said i thought very seriously about resigning in the summer. i was dissuaded by doing so by the cabinet secretary and other senior people who said, please state. don't do it. you know, you have that tension, and i don't know quite... i think in retrospect, i was probably right not to resign in march. i think in retrospect i was definitely wrong not to resign in september. whether or not i should have gone in the summer or not, i don't know. you mention there _ summer or not, i don't know. you mention there are _ summer or not, i don't know. you mention there are about tensions between — mention there are about tensions between decisions and what we have heard _ between decisions and what we have heard this _ between decisions and what we have heard this morning is that you had no real— heard this morning is that you had no real power yet you took the test and vaccination programme of this

secretary— and vaccination programme of this secretary of state. you are concerned about making decisions that would put people's lives at risk yet — that would put people's lives at risk yet you took trip to durham. do you get— risk yet you took trip to durham. do you get that — risk yet you took trip to durham. do you get that listening to this for the past — you get that listening to this for the past two, three hours, you don't have any— the past two, three hours, you don't have any power, you didn't have any control, _ have any power, you didn't have any control, you — have any power, you didn't have any control, you had the ear of the prime — control, you had the ear of the prime minister but didn't really use it but— prime minister but didn't really use it but yet— prime minister but didn't really use it but yet on the flip side you were able to— it but yet on the flip side you were able to make things change. i think from the _ able to make things change. i think from the perspective of decision—making, something doesn't connect _ decision—making, something doesn't connect there for me. | decision-making, something doesn't connect there for me.— connect there for me. i think... peole connect there for me. i think... people all _ connect there for me. i think... people all over— connect there for me. i think... people all over westminster i people all over westminster exaggerated... i think arguably they underestimated the influence that i had between july and underestimated the influence that i had betweenjuly and december 2019, arguably. they massively exaggerated the influence i had after the election. the whole idea that i was the most powerful person in the country and all of that and i can

just click my fingers and do this that in the other was wrong. if i could have click my fingers and done things, there would have been a serious border policy, masks would have been compulsory, hancock would have been compulsory, hancock would have been compulsory, hancock would have been fired. dozens and dozens of things would have been done. what happened is that fundamentally the prime minister and i did not agree about covid. we did not agree about covid after march. he thought we should not have gone into lockdown, we should have focused on the economy, it is all a disaster. i thought that perspective was mad. i had very little influence on covid staff, i tried, had very little influence on covid staff, itried, i made arguments. in all the pretty much major arguments i lost, i did not win. what i therefore the summer was i brought in simon case to be permanent secretary at number ten because i thought the prime minister is not listening to me. our relations are

getting worse and worse, his girlfriend is desperate to get rid of me and or my team. if i bring in someone official to try and take over on covid, that will make things better and maybe he'll listen better to simon case than to me to which some extent did happen. then i spent a lot of my time in may, june and july, not on covid, but on defence, science and technology, procurement reform, planning regulations, the economy, productivity, innovation, data, you know all of these sorts of things and i tried to use what influence i had on those things, where either the prime minister agreed with me or he didn't really care in which case i could push things on. but it wasn't really usefuljust need setting meeting after meeting on quarantine on which we didn't agree. mr; after meeting on quarantine on which we didn't agree-— we didn't agree. my final question, sor for we didn't agree. my final question, sorry for the _

we didn't agree. my final question, sorry for the time _ we didn't agree. my final question, sorry for the time taken. _ we didn't agree. my final question, sorry for the time taken. for- sorry for the time taken. for lessons _ sorry for the time taken. for lessons learned, moving forward, it sounds _ lessons learned, moving forward, it sounds like — lessons learned, moving forward, it sounds like you were perceived to be the chief _ sounds like you were perceived to be the chief adviser, whatever the title may— the chief adviser, whatever the title may be to the prime minister, but your— title may be to the prime minister, but your advice was not being taken. is but your advice was not being taken. is that _ but your advice was not being taken. is that because the fact that you didn't— is that because the fact that you didn't bring people along with you to agree _ didn't bring people along with you to agree with your advice to them, to agree with your advice to them, to get— to agree with your advice to them, to get the — to agree with your advice to them, to get the prime minister to listen? what _ to get the prime minister to listen? what was _ to get the prime minister to listen? what was the reason for that? the bit that— what was the reason for that? the bit that comes to my mind, if we go into another— bit that comes to my mind, if we go into another pandemic in a few years timei _ into another pandemic in a few years time, how— into another pandemic in a few years time, how do we set out the strictures— time, how do we set out the strictures according to what you see today _ strictures according to what you see today to _ strictures according to what you see today to make sure advice is listen to. today to make sure advice is listen to should — today to make sure advice is listen to. should you not be the canary in the mines — to. should you not be the canary in the mines to— to. should you not be the canary in the mines to say that the stuff coming — the mines to say that the stuff coming down the line that we need to do something on and it sounds like your advice — do something on and it sounds like your advice from what you are saying was not _ your advice from what you are saying was not taken on board, rightly or wrongly? — was not taken on board, rightly or wrongly? so was not taken on board, rightly or wrontl ? ~' was not taken on board, rightly or wrontl ? ~ , was not taken on board, rightly or wrontl ? ,, , ., wrongly? so i think it is sort of generalise _ wrongly? so i think it is sort of generalise about _ wrongly? so i think it is sort of generalise about some - wrongly? so i think it is sort of generalise about some of- wrongly? so i think it is sort of| generalise about some of these things. i think in lots of stuff on

covid, actually, there was a centre of gravity in number ten for the same view that agreed with me but the prime ministerjust wouldn't do it. you know, and many, many issues, me, the cabinet secretary, the chancellor, i know senior people agreed. but the prime minister would not do what we advised, so the problem wasn't necessarily i can persuade other people and lots of things. everybody was screaming and quarantine. have a policy and set it out clearly and stick to it. we cannot keep changing your mind every time the telegraph writes a story on the subject will stop everybody agreed with me on that regardless on what the real policy should be. but nobody could find a way around the problem of the prime ministerjust, lycos shopping trolley, smashing from one side of the shopping aisle to the other. from one side of the shopping aisle to the other-—

from one side of the shopping aisle to the other. �* ., ., ., ., to the other. before we move on from this, one of — to the other. before we move on from this. one of the _ to the other. before we move on from this, one of the things _ to the other. before we move on from this, one of the things that _ to the other. before we move on from this, one of the things that upset i this, one of the things that upset people was not taking that —— your family out of london, it was when you said it was to test your eyes but others see it was a birthday treat for yahweh. you stand by that account? , ., treat for yahweh. you stand by that account? , . , ., , ., , , account? they made up a story. it is account? they made up a story. it is a weird story- _ account? they made up a story. it is a weird story. the _ account? they made up a story. it is a weird story. the truth _ account? they made up a story. it is a weird story. the truth is _ account? they made up a story. it is a weird story. the truth is only i account? they made up a story. it is a weird story. the truth is only a i a weird story. the truth is only a few days before then i had been sitting in bed writing a will on what to do if i die. i then was thinking about coming down on the 12th, the sunday. but i was basically too ill to do that. my wife said, you are in a state. you can barely walk. are you sure you are ok to go back to work? are you sure you're ok to go back to whole thing? i don't know, i tried to explain this all the time. it seemed

to me like if you are going to drive 300 miles to go back to work the next day, then pottering down the road for 30 miles and back to see how you feel after you have just come back what you thought was your death bed, didn't seem crazy to me at the time. did death bed, didn't seem crazy to me at the time-— at the time. did it not seem to do that test with — at the time. did it not seem to do that test with your _ at the time. did it not seem to do that test with your wife _ at the time. did it not seem to do that test with your wife and i at the time. did it not seem to do that test with your wife and child | that test with your wife and child seem crazy in the car? it that test with your wife and child seem crazy in the car?— seem crazy in the car? it seems cra . seem crazy in the car? it seems crazy- no- _ seem crazy in the car? it seems crazy- no- it _ seem crazy in the car? it seems crazy. no. it didn't _ seem crazy in the car? it seems crazy. no. it didn't seem - seem crazy in the car? it seems crazy. no. it didn't seem crazy i seem crazy in the car? it seemsl crazy. no. it didn't seem crazy at the time. it seemed just like, ok, let's kill in the car, drive and down the road. if i feel bad, come home. let's see howl down the road. if i feel bad, come home. let's see how i feel as i get going. ok. ican home. let's see how i feel as i get going. ok. i can completely understand why people think the whole thing is weird. obviously i wish i had never heard of barnard castle and i wish i had never gone. i wish the whole nightmare had never

happened but hopefully people can, evenif happened but hopefully people can, even if they cannot agree, they can understand. as i say, i can only apologise for the whole thing. ok. we have apologise for the whole thing. cit. we have talked a lot so far about things that went wrong but i think we should spend some time on the big thing that went right, which was the vaccine programme. i have got three colleagues that want to ask you about that. let me open by seeing what is it that you think we got right on the vaccine that was so different to some of the other things we have been talking about today? fundamentally, on vaccines, there was clear responsibility, someone in charge of it and she was working with patrick vallance, built a team of people that understood what they were doing. and she had the kind of strength of character not to be

pushed around by, so, we had a