he sorry, that's a different pictures. the japanese tennis star and world number two, naomi osaka, says she's withdrawing from the french open as a result of controversy over her refusal to speak to the media during the tournament. she said she got huge waves of anxiety about speaking to the press after matches. events have been taking place in the city of tulsa in oklahoma to mark the centenary of a race—related massacre in which up to 300 black people were killed. an alleged assault of a white teenage girl by a black man led to widespread shooting, burning and looting. china has announced that couples will now be allowed to have three children instead of the current limit of two.

now on bbc news, hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur, and this is the restaurant kitchen of my guest today, one of britain's top chefs — tom kerridge. now, for much of the past year, this place has been eerily quiet, but now lockdown is over and the noise, the heat and the smells are back. but what will the long—term impact of covid be on the hospitality business? and has it prompted us to rethink the relationship between our food and our health? tom kerridge, welcome to hardtalk, and thank you for letting us

into your fabulous kitchen. yeah, well, you're very, very welcome. if you stay there too long, i might get you podding some of these peas! how good is it to be back here? it's amazing. personally, it's great to have the energy going but, actually, you know, the team, the staff, across the board of every space, every restaurant have been amazing. we were all back in at least a week before we could open, and just the idea of getting stocks and sauces on, the energy levels... we've had staff sat at home or have kind of being involved in the industry, but not in the same way. to be able to get back doing what they do, there is that wonderful excitement, that energy, that space, that, you know, waiting to get open. and then, once we've finally got open, it's been incredible, it's been really good. a little rusty but, you know, we're working through it. i think you once said that, "to me, food and producing, cooking food isn't so much an art, it is a craft," and you compared yourself to a builder. but i mean, you're not working with bricks, you're working with... peas!

right now, you're working with peas. yeah, but it is very much — it's a trade. it's very much a trade for me. you know, there are chefs out there that are really creative and incredibly artistic. but from my point of view, it's much more a case of understanding the building blocks of flavour. you know, you have kind of crunch, texture, you know, sweet, savoury, acidity and just trying to find the balance of everything. so every time that you build something on a plate, it is essentially like it's a trade, it's a craft. it's like building a chair, like a carpenter or building a wardrobe, or doing whatever. you know, you arejust essentially putting the foundations and then building upon it. are you constantly striving to be a better builder? i mean, do you think you're a better builder/chef today than you were, say, ten years ago? oh, yeah, massively. of course. better restaurateur, better restaurateur. i think the daily cooking, you know, the guys that cook the meat and fish on the section behind, they're the ones that are cooking. if you put me on that section now, i'm rusty, i'm out of practice, i'd be all over the place.

but the understanding of the complete package, that's something that you get more as a chef as you grow. you have to understand the business a lot more, so i'm a much better restaurateur than i was ten years ago. tom, that is a great cue for you to show me, if you would, the restaurant space where you actually serve the customers. let's go have a look. absolutely. let's talk about covid. what has it been like as a chef, seeing your restaurants basically shuttered for the best part of a year? heartbreaking, terrifyingly frightening. especially at the beginning. there was that little interim period where there was government advice of "don't go out to pubs, don't go out to bars, don't go out to restaurants, don't go into anything". there was a period of 3—5 days of no help for those restaurants or businesses. so there was that middle period there, that lost zone. looking back at it now, it feels like it was like such a weird, terrible twilight zone of lost because customers were either coming or not

coming or cancelling and completely... you can't blame them for cancelling because the government advised them not to go, but you're still operating as a restaurant with no advice, no forthcoming help, nothing. so that was the most terrifying moment. frightening, you say. did you at times in this past year think your businesses may not get through it? yeah, of course. yeah, very much. right at the beginning, you fear how we're going to deal with this, how we'll come through it, what will we do? the first thing, actually — i mean, it'sjust the nature of the way that our business and, isuppose, our ethos is and the way that we work, our first concern is always staff, all our colleagues and our friends that have worked with us and how can we reassure them to try and make sure that they are looked after? or how do we make sure that they feel at least secure and safe? because if we don't know what's going on and they look to us as leadership,

you know, we run the businesses, they want some sort of clarity. they want to know what's going on. and you've got to remember, that hospitality is often filled with young, you know, people making their way in the world. you know, it's quite often school leavers, university students, all the way through to people that are working in the industry are normally at the beginning point, in their early 20s, all the way through to their early 30s before they start reaching their senior manager point. so these are people that are going to be terrified. so it's — how do we reassure them? and that was a big thing. in a way, they're your most important resource, particularly your most skilled chefs. how many have you lost over the last year? throughout the group, we have lost quite a few. we've lost quite a few in manchester, and we've lost quite a few here in london. and that was through a number of things, there were a couple of redundancies. but a lot of it was members of staff going home. they were eu nationals, a lot of them, so they were going back to italy, france, poland. and have they made it plain to you they're not coming back? yeah, a lot of them said,

no, they're not coming back, at this point. i think there's a lot of clarity. i don't really know. you have that double whammy, don't we? we've been hit by covid, and now we've got brexit. so, there's those two problems of people being able to come back and being able to, you know, negotiate their way and find their way back into life. so, that's been very, very difficult. i want to take you back now to your own childhood. you were not from a privileged background — very far from it. your mum struggled. she worked, i think, twojobs, sometimes even three jobs to put food on your table. and oftentimes, it was cheap food. it was the food she could afford. from that background, how come you became so obsessed with fine food? because it wasn't about the food, and i think you'll find when you speak to anybody who excels in... no matter what career path they do, i think it's the passion for thejob, not necessarily... like, i walked into a kitchen when i was 18 years old and i fell in love

with the energy, the space, the kitchen, the noise, the banter, the left—field way of life, that way of, you know... i think you called it a rock—and—roll lifestyle, being in a kitchen. very much, it is. and i was puzzled by that. what on earth do you mean? well, it's like being on a pirate ship. it's such an eclectic mix of people that are in a kitchen that they are... and it's the most embracing of cultures. it's quite hard. it's hard work, it's physical. it can be hot and sweaty, and you've got sharp things, knives, there's fire there. there's all sorts of, like — and it's adrenaline—fuelled. but it really is embracing of economic background, cultural background, race, religion, sexuality. none of it matters at all. you know, it's hugely embracing and it's the most eclectic, diverse space, and it's a wonderful place of — a melting pot of meeting people, and that's what i fell in love with. reflecting on your own career, do you think there were times when you got addicted on the adrenaline of it? and, you know, the lifestyle, as you've said, it's hugely

sort of stimulating, but it also has a major downside. the hours are terrible. the atmosphere can sometimes be difficult in a kitchen, and it encourages people probably to overindulge, maybe to deal with stress. and you overindulged for quite a while in your life. yeah. is that because of the environment? i don't know. partly. is that because it's that sort of personality? perhaps, you know, and that sort of personality is embraced in that environment. you know, it is quite rock and roll, it is very good fun. it is adrenaline—fuelled and there is that fine line between it being... there's an excitement point of... well, on a saturday night when there's so many cheques on order and you're behind, and the chef's calling for this and that and that, and you're not quite ready on this, and there's energy and excitement and buzz and... which can actually sometimes go beyond buzz and energy, and it can be bullying

and it can be difficult. and we know from various reports into your industry that over time, there has been a real problem with top chefs bullying junior staff. there has, but that's massively changed over the years. that perception still exists, and there are still some very hard kitchens. and in terms of bullying, i think that very much is changing. violence does not exist in kitchens any more. there might have been a time in the �*90s when i was first starting out in kitchens, that they were quite intimidating spaces. there was energies and attitudes, and working hours were incredibly hard. and, yes, you do work hard and you do mention the hours are terrible — the hours aren't terrible, they're great. i mean, you think they're terrible. if you want that kind of nine—to—five life, then yes, the hours are terrible. however, if you like, enjoy working a friday and saturday night, and then you're going out to play at midnight.

i mean, it's something that — it's vibrant, it's good fun. that's amazing, that's exciting. i think the industry attracts people who like to live slightly different, not that normal kind of nine—to—five. i'm getting this picture of you, tom kerridge, thriving in that environment. the sort of rock—and—roll element. but, you know, i'm going to be brutal with you, you became massively overweight. yeah. you became somewhat addicted to alcohol and, having made a success of your first venture, the pub outside of london, which was doing really well, you actually, in terms of your own personal situation, you were in a bit of a mess. i was in a bit of a mess physically, but mentally... so the business won two michelin stars, we were cooking stuff on tv. i'd won great british menu. we'd done our first book, so there was nothing... it wasn't a mess, as in terms of like, life was going down. not at all. it was actually going up, so it was kind of like, ok,

but, yeah, physically, i was at a point of, yeah, i had... i have had, i do have an issue with alcohol. there is a problem that i don't... i can't drink, i haven't drunk now for over eight years. and it is... there's no such thing as a single drink to me. and there never was just going out for a beer. it was always — i mean, if you were going to drink, let's get stuck in, we'll do this properly and we do it every day, and we do it... and that's a culmination of, i suppose, a couple of things. one is that addictive personality, but two, it's that release of energy, of pressures of running a business. so, you know, i opened the hand & flowers when i was 31 years old, and that's quite a young age to be opening a business, risking every penny that we've got — which isn't a huge amount at that point. and you suddenly go, "ok, everything is reliant on making this work," and you're churning it and you're trying to make it work and you're grafting. you're working so hard as a husband and a wife team and that release of pressure was fuelled by late—night drinking, like massively. and not for a single bit

of me do i regret and, in fact, a little bit of me misses that person. let's talk about the meaning of food to you, because i referred to your mum and the way she always put food on the table but it was a struggle. you — and right now, we — are located in the poshest of posh restaurants in london. and, you know, you can get people in here paying... well, i've looked at the menu, you know, sometimes for a very special one, they can pay over £100, $140, for a starter. now, does that sometimes sit uneasily with you, given your knowledge of how many people, notjust in this country, but around the world really struggle to put any kind of nutritious food on their table? no, not for a single minute, because i understand the value of where that price comes from. it's easy to say that that's expensive. food's expensive when you can just get a sandwich from pret a manger around the corner.

great, of course. yeah, i get that. and if you're comparing the two things together, just in terms of cost, it's massive. however, if you're comparing it in terms of heritage, staff skill set, where it comes from, the process, the complete understanding of the whole package, then no, we're very conscious that everything should have value and justifiable value for money. and that's something that i'm very conscious of. but there is a skill set. this is a thing where, you know, we go back to the skilled—staff shortages. you know, if you undervalue people — people need to be paid for doing this. and the one thing that we see from, i suppose, the coronavirus fallout, we've all been able to buy meal kits from our favourite restaurants or been able to cook at home. we've all been able to get alcohol from the shop, so we can eat and drink. all right? but the one thing that we miss is the spaces that are provided to do it in, the place, and that comes with the skill set, the warmth and the energy of somebody saying hello to you when you come

through a room. the smile and the warmth is for free. but, actually, it isn't for free. we are paying for these people to be there. this is a skill. hospitality is a skill, and it's often seen... it's confused between low—paid and low—skilled work. and it's two very, very different things. but i'm very interested that, particularly during lockdown, you've taken the opportunity to provide very low—cost meals for nhs workers as a special programme you developed. you've also in recent times hooked up with the professional footballer marcus rashford to put a focus on getting nutritious food to disadvantaged, poorer children across the united kingdom. i'm just wondering whether — and let us be honest — serving the rich with brilliant food isn't enough for you. no. and the one thing that we've been able to harness and understand over the last few years is that where

we are, where myself... i find myself in the space of media completely by accident. you know, the last ten years of television work and books and stuff, it hasn't been a purposely driven process. what it has been is something that's come from competing on a bbc programme called great british menu, winning that and then being asked to do something else. and you've embraced it as this... i've embraced it as a world that sits alongside. but i am still the same person from gloucester. how can one person be both? and you are trying to do it. well, it's because i found myself in that very fortunate position through graft, hard work, luck, a skill set that i've fallen in love with. i've been able to find myself in a position through food to be able to give something back as well as it work as a business. and it's the same for marcus rashford. you look — from marcus�*s point of view,

he's a professional footballer that's paid — we all know — the huge amount of money professional footballers earn to be doing his skill set. but at the same point, he's then using his incredible voice to be able to help. and that's where we sit together, because our skill set together can help. and it is helping. but ijust wonder, is there anger in you when you look around this country, one of the richest in the world, and see that something like 1.3 million kids are on a regular basis not getting any sort of nutritious meal at lunchtime, certainly in school holidays when they're not getting a school lunch? yeah, and it's almost double that. it's 2.6 million suffering some forms of food insecurity. does it make you angry? it makes me incredibly disappointed. surely it makes everybody angry, like, if everybody knew it... is being angry about it being the right thing, or is actually consciously trying to make a difference the right thing to do? and anger isn't something that... i suppose anger can help you focus. but actually, i feel disappointed that

marcus rashford's mum, twojobs, same... same story as yours. exactly. so that's why we've gelled together. but i'm twice his age. that's the disappointing thing, that i'm twice his age. and he's now helping children that are ten years younger, 15 years younger than him. and it's kind of like, how are we still having this conversation and why is it only now that a premier league footballer is being able to highlight this as a situation and an issue that affects this country? so that's much more... ifind it much more disappointing than i do angry. and one particular aspect of the way economic means seems to affect what people eat and the nutrition they get, one particular aspect is the degree to which poorer people show much higher levels of obesity. and that begins, that linkage begins very young. kids in deprived areas are significantly more obese, on average, than in the richest, least deprived areas. how do you think

we can tackle that? it's notjust about food and ingredients. it's about skill set, as well. it's about people that are learning. we've almost got forgotten generations. marcus was the first one to admit this was the first time as a 23—year—old that he'd ever peeled a carrot with me. and it's like, ok, this is a skill. we're going right back to basics, and a lot of that has been forgotten, a lot of that has been removed, that understanding of food. processed food, the fact that they are high in fats, high in sugars, high in salts. should a tax be put — you know, there's a sugar tax that is discussed in government circles. there could be much greater government intervention to try to change diets of all people. do you think that would work? there's a huge thing being looked at, the nationalfood strategy that henry dimbleby�*s chairing and heading up at the moment. phase one, or part one

has been released. part two they're working on at the minute, and that's a much bigger understanding of everything that's affecting food across the board, you know, whether it's global warming, the effects of market and price changes, the effects of brexit, you know, including... it goes down to free school meals and nutrition. but i think the biggest thing is for an education and an understanding, and a skill set to be relearned for people to be able to cook. and i don't mean making cakes, and i don't mean knocking out incredible lasagnes every day of the week, because we're also very time—poor. you know, we find ourselves in positions where people want things now, we want it now. so quicker understanding, the understanding of using frozen vegetables, the understanding of using tinned products, the understanding of... but trying to incorporate them in cooking ingredients, that's a form of education that can most definitely help. there is an active debate in this country about whether we should, through various free trade deals with, say, australia and the united states,

we should allow very cheap new sources of, for example, hormone—produced beef or chlorinated chicken into this country as part of free trade deals. now, the critics say that's unacceptable — in eu regulations, those would be illegal, those products. now the uk is not in the eu. if the meat is going to be cheaper, should we be allowing these products into the united kingdom? because you've just said people need access to affordable food. they do, yeah, but that affordable food does not need to be hormone—produced cattle. if you want affordable food, isn't this a genuine dilemma, how you square getting the cheapest food you can with the safest and best food you can? well, it is a very difficult question. however, there does have to be the line of ethics here. there does have to be the point where you look at where can

you find that crossover between sustainability, ethically raised and well—looked—after foods? i mean, chicken that's been washed in chlorine, straight away, is that something that you would want to eat? and it's all well and good that we say that that makes it affordable because it's been that mass—produced. well, maybe that's where the education of different foods or different types of diets... you know, we're similar sorts of ages. when we were kids, roast chicken was seen as something super special on a sunday. i mean, if you had a roast chicken, the flavour of it was incredible. the value that you gave to it more, there was much more in the way of animal husbandry. and respect to the product is massive. now, chicken is much more a throwaway product that people would just have, you know, just thrown into pasta dishes. the respect for that ingredient has gone. change the ingredient, change the understanding. and i'm not saying... everybody should be able to buy the food, the best produce that they could afford, irrespective of where they sit on the economic scale.

a final thought, and it goes back to what you were saying about the amount of fear you've felt over the last year or so as your business has been threatened, as restaurants have been closed. what have you turned to as comfort food? what has really, really made you feel happy in the worst of times? yeah. do you know, it's been really nice, because obviously i've spent more time at home this year than i think i've ever spent. you know, every day i've still been in to work. every day would be strategy planning about how to move forward, what we're doing, how we operate in each space. but in the evenings i've been home, and in the evenings it's been very special. i've got a young son. so actually to be able to cook with him, cook tea... now, whether that has been going cooking on a weekend, like making a lovely curry or beef stew — he loves that — or making an omelette on a sunday morning, those sort of things are amazing. but it still also goes back to the same sort of thing as a simple bacon sandwich, fish—finger sandwich, you know, those sort

of things that you just go... those are the sort of things that you never normally have as a chef. you're on the go. you're having staff food, you're doing whatever, and all of a sudden it feels like you're having a normal tea, baked beans on toast. it's great. you know, those sort of things have been fantastic. and i guess the key ingredient, and it's obvious in your voice, is the love you put into it. yeah. i mean, listen, i'm so, so fortunate. i'm 47 years old and i'm sat in a beautiful restaurant. and it is because, as an 18—year—old, i walked into a kitchen and i fell in love with an industry and everything that we've built on it. that industry is food and meeting like—minded, passionate people, the cheesemaker, the winemaker, the beer brewer, the cattle farmer. when you meet these people that have the same sort of passion about what they're creating and what they're doing, it's a wonderful industry to be in. and you can't help but ride that wave and that kind of snowball effect as you meet people along the way that are so excited about what they do. and then when you get the opportunity to create restaurants and you speak

to somebody who makes furniture furniture or artists, or whatever else to put into the room, and you constantly meet these vibrant, uplifting souls, we're very, very lucky to be... i'm the luckiest man alive to be in a space like this, surrounded by lovely people. tom kerridge, thank you very much for sharing this space with us. it's a pleasure, thank you. thank you very much. hello again. bank holiday monday was the hottest day of the year so far. i would say "no complaints", but may was a complete wash—out — the wettest on record in wales, the fourth wettest for the uk, and it was chilly. 25 celsius we had in kinloch certainly made a welcome change. that warm weather felt by most of us, however, we did have some of that pesky

low cloud, the mist and fog around north sea coasts, and some of that lingered all day in shetland, keeping the temperatures atjust ten celsius here. and we have got more of these fog banks to come as we head into tuesday morning. again, shetland, very likely to see some of that, and across eastern england, stretching from norfolk across lincolnshire into yorkshire all the way to probably north yorkshire, you are likely to come across some fog, some low cloud, and even the occasional spot of drizzle. but otherwise, a dry start to the day on tuesday, relatively mild. and for those in the west, probably a glorious start to the day because we have this weather front out to the far west, and some of that cloud will get illuminated. sunshine on through the rest of the day, but we will have some of these fog banks affecting shetland from time to time, but otherwise, i think, many eastern coasts better chance of seeing the sunshine. and it's going to be a bit warmer, 211—25 celsius more widespread, the warmest places probably getting up to 26 celsius which, again, will make it the warmest day of the year. and, of course, it'sjune, the skies are clear, that's why we have high levels of uv. if you are outside for any

length of time, might be worth considering a bit of sun cream. on into the middle part of the week, we have some changes in the weather picture. this area of low pressure is drifting up from europe bringing with it some thundery showers. they will mainly be across southwestern areas of the country. further northwards and eastwards, it's another sunny and very warm day, in fact, temperatures could go as high as 27 celsius in the very warmest spots, but, perhaps over these north sea coasts, a little bit cooler, given the onshore winds will be strengthening a little bit. so highs of about 17 celsius or so in newcastle. on into thursday's forecast, that area of low pressure continues to push northwards, just bringing the risk of those showers across northern england into scotland. this front really marks the boundary between fresher atlantic air that will be moving in across the uk for many of us from the slightly warmer weather that we still have a across far eastern areas. now, temperatures will be drifting down then for many, but still not bad, 19 celsius, feeling pleasant in cardiff, the highest temperatures, eastern england, up to 2a celsius in norwich.

this is bbc news — i'm reged ahmad — with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. she's out! japanese tennis player — naomi osaka — withdraws from the french open — after her refusal to speak to the media. the city of tulsa marks the centenary of the worst single act of racial violence in america's history. china tells parents they can now have three children — as it tries to stop a steep decline in the country's birth rate. translation: i have one kid but if the government - could give us some sort of subsidy, we would definitely have more. three children? two are enough. even one is exhausting me. and — the cold border that could get hot once more.

we report from the tense dividing line between india and china.