job, so we talk we go through this job, so we talk about that. in terms of lord dyson in terms of the process, that the subject was not talked about at all. there are only a few people alive who know what it is like to be in your shoes so i'm not surprised to talk to them. thank you.- your shoes so i'm not surprised to talk to them. thank you. thank you mr sharp and _ talk to them. thank you. thank you mr sharp and mr— talk to them. thank you. thank you mr sharp and mr davey _ talk to them. thank you. thank you mr sharp and mr davey -- - talk to them. thank you. thank you mr sharp and mr davey -- mr - talk to them. thank you. thank you j mr sharp and mr davey -- mr davie mr sharp and mr davey —— mr davie per talking to us and hanging on for the session. i want to go back to the session. i want to go back to the rehiring of martin bashir in a moment. how was it decided who would take part in the review of editorial policies, there has been some criticism of that about its diversity and where they will be getting independent advice from. i would you respond to that criticism and what will you do to meet it?

ifi if i may answer that. as you know, the governance we have now is very different _ the governance we have now is very different in— the governance we have now is very different. in that board structure, which _ different. in that board structure, which is _ different. in that board structure, which is an— different. in that board structure, which is an enhancement, in addition we have _ which is an enhancement, in addition we have the — which is an enhancement, in addition we have the resources and capabilities of professor hargreaves and sir— capabilities of professor hargreaves and sir robin gibb as well. we have augmented that with the two other advisers _ augmented that with the two other advisers who are not part of the committee. —— who are now part of the committee, who are going to work independently within the parameters set out _ independently within the parameters set out to— independently within the parameters set out to conduct a swift investigation, pointing to errors

were _ investigation, pointing to errors were there will be lessons learned. you believe that what you have done is sufficient to meet that criticism about a lack of diversity and independence?— about a lack of diversity and l independence?_ the about a lack of diversity and - independence?_ the ad independence? yes, i do. the ad render independence? yes, i do. the ad gender diversity, _ independence? yes, i do. the ad gender diversity, ethnic - independence? yes, i do. the ad| gender diversity, ethnic diversity, and also critically two independent voices with very good experience across multiple news outlets. irate across multiple news outlets. we have experienced there from itn, from _ have experienced there from itn, from channel 4, from the financial times, _ from channel 4, from the financial times, from — from channel 4, from the financial times, from the new statesman and the bbc _ times, from the new statesman and the bbc. ., ., , ., ., , the bbc. that goes alongside the exertise the bbc. that goes alongside the expertise on _ the bbc. that goes alongside the expertise on the _ the bbc. that goes alongside the expertise on the board _ the bbc. that goes alongside the expertise on the board of- the bbc. that goes alongside the expertise on the board of our- the bbc. that goes alongside the i expertise on the board of our board members. i expertise on the board of our board members. ~ . expertise on the board of our board members. ~' ., ., ., members. i think we have got a re members. i think we have got a pretty robust — members. i think we have got a pretty robust panel _ members. i think we have got a pretty robust panel there. - members. i think we have got a pretty robust panel there. i - members. i think we have got a pretty robust panel there. i do | members. i think we have got a - pretty robust panel there. i do want to ress a pretty robust panel there. i do want to press a little _ pretty robust panel there. i do want to press a little on _ pretty robust panel there. i do want to press a little on the _ pretty robust panel there. i do want to press a little on the rehiring - pretty robust panel there. i do want to press a little on the rehiring of. to press a little on the rehiring of martin bashir and the report done on

it under your watch. i want to put a couple of quotes to you, or reports. this report in the times that jonathan munro, the 180 pfizer inns pounds a year deputy director of news has been identified by senior bbc insiders as the driving force in rehiring martin bashir as religion corresponding in 2016 —— £180,000. it says a senior source said that munro, who previously worked for itn, recruited martin bashir after telling staff that he wanted to shake up the bbc and win awards for its skips. i do not know if that means martin bashir convinced him that she could get an interview as religious correspondent with god given his previous record, but is

that allegation true? —— scoops that that allegation true? —— scoops that thatis that allegation true? —— scoops that that is the driving force behind why martin bashir was rehired in 2016? i martin bashir was rehired in 2016? i do not know if that quote is through, i cannot substantiate that. i think the report lays less out, which is they were looking for the right person. if you are looking for an editor, someone who can lead an agenda and someone who has got a good grip of all the issues and can find news stories. that is not inappropriate territory. the real question here is the due diligence that was done on the individual and how that works. i do not think it is

utterly inappropriate for a news room to look for people who can generate and lead stories. that is what we do. the generate and lead stories. that is what we �*10-— what we do. the report is the last word on this- _ what we do. the report is the last word on this. the _ what we do. the report is the last word on this. the nu] _ what we do. the report is the last word on this. the nu] have - what we do. the report is the last. word on this. the nu] have pointed out in their statement that, basically, the questions are not expunged by this report. how is it plausible that senior bbc executives steeped in news on a daily basis, responsible for the bbc�*s reputation, did not consider martin bashir�*s recent career lows and behaviour in the us. why is no reference in this review to the pretty remarkable steps that the then bbc head of current affairs took in the year 2000 to write to itv and to complain in unvarnished

terms about martin bashir? unethical treatment of bbcjournalists, citing attempt to discredit them and sabotage the panorama investigation into harold shipman. the allegations into harold shipman. the allegations in that letter are shocking stuff, about behaviour clearly known to many back in 2000. yet in rehiring him ina many back in 2000. yet in rehiring him in a 2016, the bbc said martin bashir�*s track record in enterprising journalism is well known and respected. so how do the mcquarrie investigation not reference the fact that the bbc head of current affairs had written to itv in a 2000 to complain about martin bashir�*s unethical behaviour? in terms of... and meeting the nu], because i think there are some things we need to ensure in terms of

your selection and process that relates to some of the chair to's comments that we do follow up on, and we have got to make sure we are flawless in this regard, that we get the best candidates and there is a fair selection process. i think that is essential and i think there are some tightening of the process. there were interviews and references taken. i note there were references taken. i note there were references taken by the two us companies. in terms of due diligence, which relates to your question around the horrocks e—mail, that was not raised at the time. remember, this is 16 years later. that was not coming up in the due diligence. i think there is a question. i think one of the things we need to do is let are two areas of due diligence which i think our material. one is obviously...

for editorial appointments, this is critical, that we have a more formal approach of due diligence around the editorial background. there is a social media, but also that editorial history. secondly, i think within the organisation we need to make sure that any documentation is shared. but that is a fair point. i think we perhaps now know that anything we said in the past is likely to be the write up, but there seems to be a remarkable lack of folk memory within the bbc. when you look at the sequence of events and the number of times red flags were flowing regarding martin bashir, it is staggering that he was reappointed. it does seem to me that you seriously need to look at the appointment procedures because they would not pass muster in hiding a parliamentary researcher, as

happened in the case of martin bashir. mr happened in the case of martin bashir. ~ , , ., bashir. mr davey, you said several times that you _ bashir. mr davey, you said several times that you acted _ bashir. mr davey, you said several times that you acted on _ bashir. mr davey, you said several times that you acted on lord - bashir. mr davey, you said several i times that you acted on lord spencer because _ times that you acted on lord spencer because my— times that you acted on lord spencer because my allegations _ times that you acted on lord spencer because my allegations last - times that you acted on lord spencer because my allegations last 0ctober| because my allegations last october within— because my allegations last october within days — because my allegations last october within days of — because my allegations last october within days of getting _ because my allegations last october within days of getting substantive i within days of getting substantive evidence — within days of getting substantive evidence -- _ within days of getting substantive evidence~ -- mr— within days of getting substantive evidence. —— mr davie. _ within days of getting substantive evidence. —— mr davie. of- within days of getting substantivel evidence. —— mr davie. of course, that's— evidence. —— mr davie. of course, that's not— evidence. —— mr davie. of course, that's not true, _ evidence. —— mr davie. of course, that's not true, is _ evidence. —— mr davie. of course, that's not true, is it? _ evidence. —— mr davie. of course, that's not true, is it? when - evidence. —— mr davie. of course, i that's not true, is it? when channel 4 contacted — that's not true, is it? when channel 4 contacted you _ that's not true, is it? when channel 4 contacted you on _ that's not true, is it? when channel 4 contacted you on october- that's not true, is it? when channel 4 contacted you on october 21 - that's not true, is it? when channel 4 contacted you on october 21 withl 4 contacted you on october 21 with all the _ 4 contacted you on october 21 with all the detailed _ 4 contacted you on october 21 with all the detailed allegations - 4 contacted you on october 21 with all the detailed allegations that. all the detailed allegations that lord spencer— all the detailed allegations that lord spencer had, _ all the detailed allegations that lord spencer had, the - all the detailed allegations that lord spencer had, the bbc's i all the detailed allegations that - lord spencer had, the bbc's response was for— lord spencer had, the bbc's response was for a _ lord spencer had, the bbc's response was for a press — lord spencer had, the bbc's response was for a press officer— lord spencer had, the bbc's response was for a press officer to _ lord spencer had, the bbc's response was for a press officer to write - lord spencer had, the bbc's response was for a press officer to write to - was fora press officer to write to channei— was for a press officer to write to channel 4 — was for a press officer to write to channel 4 and _ was for a press officer to write to channel 4 and say _ was for a press officer to write to channel 4 and say the _ was for a press officer to write to| channel 4 and say the following," the bbc_ channel 4 and say the following," the bbc does _ channel 4 and say the following," the bbc does not _ channel 4 and say the following," the bbc does not intend - channel 4 and say the following," the bbc does not intend to - channel 4 and say the following," the bbc does not intend to take l the bbc does not intend to take further— the bbc does not intend to take further action— the bbc does not intend to take further action on— the bbc does not intend to take further action on events - the bbc does not intend to take further action on events which i further action on events which happened _ further action on events which happened 25_ further action on events which happened 25 years _ further action on events which happened 25 years ago." - further action on events which happened 25 years ago." was| further action on events which i happened 25 years ago." was up further action on events which - happened 25 years ago." was up that was the _ happened 25 years ago." was up that was the response _ happened 25 years ago." was up that was the response to _ happened 25 years ago." was up that was the response to the _ happened 25 years ago." was up that was the response to the detailed - was the response to the detailed allegations — was the response to the detailed allegations that— was the response to the detailed allegations that you _ was the response to the detailed allegations that you got. - was the response to the detailed allegations that you got. it- was the response to the detailed allegations that you got. [it is - allegations that you got. it is within days. _ allegations that you got. it is

within days, because - allegations that you got. within days, because that allegations that you got.- within days, because that was october 21. that was our position in regards to the channel for allegations, we did not know who the source was, who what the detail was, we did not know the specifics. obviously, you would have asked? as a journalist, _ obviously, you would have asked? as a journalist, vou — obviously, you would have asked? as a journalist, you are _ obviously, you would have asked? as a journalist, you are at _ obviously, you would have asked? as a journalist, you are at the _ obviously, you would have asked? as a journalist, you are at the editor- a journalist, you are at the editor in chief — a journalist, you are at the editor in chief the _ a journalist, you are at the editor in chief. the first _ a journalist, you are at the editor in chief. the first thing _ a journalist, you are at the editor in chief. the first thing that - a journalist, you are at the editor in chief. the first thing that you i in chief. the first thing that you do when — in chief. the first thing that you do when somebody— in chief. the first thing that you do when somebody puts - in chief. the first thing that you do when somebody puts a - in chief. the first thing that you | do when somebody puts a series in chief. the first thing that you - do when somebody puts a series of very detailed — do when somebody puts a series of very detailed allegations, - do when somebody puts a series of very detailed allegations, this - do when somebody puts a series of very detailed allegations, this wasl very detailed allegations, this was not some — very detailed allegations, this was not some obscure _ very detailed allegations, this was not some obscure publication, - very detailed allegations, this was| not some obscure publication, this was channei— not some obscure publication, this was channel 4 _ not some obscure publication, this was channel 4. the _ not some obscure publication, this was channel 4. the first _ not some obscure publication, this was channel 4. the first thing - not some obscure publication, this was channel 4. the first thing youi was channel 4. the first thing you do is _ was channel 4. the first thing you do is invite — was channel 4. the first thing you do is invite them _ was channel 4. the first thing you do is invite them ask— was channel 4. the first thing you do is invite them ask and - was channel 4. the first thing you do is invite them ask and say- was channel 4. the first thing you. do is invite them ask and say these are very— do is invite them ask and say these are very detailed _ do is invite them ask and say these are very detailed allegations, - do is invite them ask and say these are very detailed allegations, theyl are very detailed allegations, they are very detailed allegations, they are obviously— are very detailed allegations, they are obviously well— are very detailed allegations, they are obviously well sourced, - are very detailed allegations, theyj are obviously well sourced, please tell me _ are obviously well sourced, please tell me about _ are obviously well sourced, please tell me about them _ are obviously well sourced, please tell me about them to _ are obviously well sourced, please tell me about them to stop - are obviously well sourced, please tell me about them to stop you . are obviously well sourced, please| tell me about them to stop you did not do _ tell me about them to stop you did not do that — tell me about them to stop you did not do that. you _ tell me about them to stop you did not do that. you said _ tell me about them to stop you did not do that. you said we _ tell me about them to stop you did not do that. you said we are - tell me about them to stop you didj not do that. you said we are taking not do that. you said we are taking no further— not do that. you said we are taking no further action— not do that. you said we are taking no further action because - not do that. you said we are taking no further action because this - not do that. you said we are taking no further action because this was| no further action because this was 25 years _ no further action because this was 25 years ago _ no further action because this was 25 years ago hr“e— no further action because this was 25 years age-— no further action because this was 25 years ago. we stated our current cororate 25 years ago. we stated our current corporate position _ 25 years ago. we stated our current corporate position on _ 25 years ago. we stated our current corporate position on october- 25 years ago. we stated our current corporate position on october 21 - corporate position on october 21 based on what we had at that time. whether it is days or weeks... we

were announcing a review i think 12 days later, a full independent review. when it comes to your valid question around what responses we gave to channel 4, there was unfortunately a problem that we had, which is part of the allegations we need to put to martin bashir. mr davie, you could have done all that iater~ _ davie, you could have done all that iater~ you — davie, you could have done all that later. you could _ davie, you could have done all that later. you could have _ davie, you could have done all that later. you could have started - davie, you could have done all that later. you could have started a - later. you could have started a process — later. you could have started a process and _ later. you could have started a process and talk— later. you could have started a process and talk to _ later. you could have started a process and talk to martin - later. you could have started a . process and talk to martin bashir when _ process and talk to martin bashir when he — process and talk to martin bashir when he felt _ process and talk to martin bashir when he felt a _ process and talk to martin bashir when he felt a bit _ process and talk to martin bashir when he felt a bit better. - process and talk to martin bashir when he felt a bit better. it - process and talk to martin bashir when he felt a bit better. it is . when he felt a bit better. it is important _ when he felt a bit better. it is important to _ when he felt a bit better. it is important to recognise - when he felt a bit better. it is important to recognise what i when he felt a bit better. it is - important to recognise what happened between _ important to recognise what happened between the _ important to recognise what happened between the channel— important to recognise what happened between the channel for— important to recognise what happened between the channel for inquiry - important to recognise what happened between the channel for inquiry to - between the channel for inquiry to you and _ between the channel for inquiry to you and to — between the channel for inquiry to you and to then— between the channel for inquiry to you and to then when _ between the channel for inquiry to you and to then when you - between the channel for inquiry to you and to then when you took - between the channel for inquiry to| you and to then when you took the decision— you and to then when you took the decision to — you and to then when you took the decision to have _ you and to then when you took the decision to have a _ you and to then when you took the decision to have a inquiry. - you and to then when you took the decision to have a inquiry. the - decision to have a inquiry. the cruciat— decision to have a inquiry. the crucial factor _ decision to have a inquiry. the crucial factor is _ decision to have a inquiry. the crucial factor is you _ decision to have a inquiry. the crucial factor is you had - decision to have a inquiry. the crucial factor is you had an - crucial factor is you had an engagement. _ crucial factor is you had an engagement. a— crucial factor is you had an engagement, a series - crucial factor is you had an engagement, a series of. engagement, a series of conversations, _ engagement, a series of conversations, e—mail. engagement, a series of— conversations, e—mail conversations, with eari— conversations, e—mail conversations, with eari spencer~ _ conversations, e—mail conversations, with earl spencer. he _ conversations, e—mail conversations, with earl spencer. he grew— conversations, e—mail conversations, with earl spencer. he grew very- with earl spencer. he grew very frustrated — with earl spencer. he grew very frustrated by— with earl spencer. he grew very frustrated by your _ with earl spencer. he grew very frustrated by your town - with earl spencer. he grew very frustrated by your town during i with earl spencer. he grew very- frustrated by your town during those conversations — frustrated by your town during those conversations. eventually, _ frustrated by your town during those conversations. eventually, he - frustrated by your town during those conversations. eventually, he gave i conversations. eventually, he gave up conversations. eventually, he gave up on— conversations. eventually, he gave up on you— conversations. eventually, he gave up on you and— conversations. eventually, he gave up on you and he— conversations. eventually, he gave

up on you and he went _ conversations. eventually, he gave up on you and he went to- conversations. eventually, he gave up on you and he went to the - conversations. eventually, he gave up on you and he went to the daily| up on you and he went to the daily maii~ _ up on you and he went to the daily maii~ 0t— up on you and he went to the daily mail. of course, _ up on you and he went to the daily mail. of course, the _ up on you and he went to the daily mail. of course, the reason - up on you and he went to the daily mail. of course, the reason you i mail. of course, the reason you announce — mail. of course, the reason you announce an— mail. of course, the reason you announce an inquiry— mail. of course, the reason you announce an inquiry is- mail. of course, the reason you announce an inquiry is because i mail. of course, the reason you i announce an inquiry is because the daitymaii— announce an inquiry is because the daiiymaii had — announce an inquiry is because the dailymail had already— announce an inquiry is because the dailymail had already splashed - announce an inquiry is because the dailymail had already splashed onl dailymail had already splashed on it, dailymail had already splashed on it. because — dailymail had already splashed on it, because earl— dailymail had already splashed on it, because earl spencer- dailymail had already splashed on it, because earl spencer had - dailymail had already splashed onl it, because earl spencer had given up it, because earl spencer had given up on _ it, because earl spencer had given up on you. — it, because earl spencer had given up on you. gone— it, because earl spencer had given up on you. gone to— it, because earl spencer had given up on you, gone to the _ it, because earl spencer had given up on you, gone to the daily- it, because earl spencer had given up on you, gone to the daily mail, j up on you, gone to the daily mail, they publish. _ up on you, gone to the daily mail, they publish, and _ up on you, gone to the daily mail, they publish, and then _ up on you, gone to the daily mail, they publish, and then you - up on you, gone to the daily mail, they publish, and then you wouldl up on you, gone to the daily mail, i they publish, and then you would in a position— they publish, and then you would in a position where _ they publish, and then you would in a position where you _ they publish, and then you would in a position where you had _ they publish, and then you would in a position where you had little - a position where you had little atternative _ a position where you had little alternative but _ a position where you had little alternative but to _ a position where you had little alternative but to act. - a position where you had little alternative but to act. [- a position where you had little alternative but to act. i understand the oint, alternative but to act. i understand the point. but _ alternative but to act. i understand the point, but on _ alternative but to act. i understand the point, but on october - alternative but to act. i understand the point, but on october 28, - alternative but to act. i understand the point, but on october 28, i - the point, but on october 28, i wrote to earl spencer, saying, if you would like to discuss this further or share information, i would be very happy to make available one of our senior editorial executives. i offered the chance on october 28 to have that conversation. chance on october 28 to have that conversation-— conversation. yes, i have got your letter in front _ conversation. yes, i have got your letter in front of _ conversation. yes, i have got your letter in front of me _ conversation. yes, i have got your letter in front of me to _ conversation. yes, i have got your letter in front of me to earl - letter in front of me to earl spencer. _ letter in front of me to earl spencer. and _ letter in front of me to earl spencer, and his— letter in front of me to earl spencer, and his reply. - letter in front of me to earl| spencer, and his reply. this letter in front of me to earl i spencer, and his reply. this is letter in front of me to earl - spencer, and his reply. this is also what _ spencer, and his reply. this is also what you _ spencer, and his reply. this is also what you said _ spencer, and his reply. this is also what you said " _ spencer, and his reply. this is also what you said. " the _ spencer, and his reply. this is also what you said. " the bbc's- spencer, and his reply. this is also. what you said. " the bbc's sequence of events— what you said. " the bbc's sequence of events is— what you said. " the bbc's sequence of events is incorrect _ what you said. " the bbc's sequence of events is incorrect and _ what you said. " the bbc's sequence of events is incorrect and martin - of events is incorrect and martin bashir— of events is incorrect and martin bashir had — of events is incorrect and martin bashir had shown _ of events is incorrect and martin bashir had shown a _ of events is incorrect and martin bashir had shown a new - of events is incorrect and martin bashir had shown a new before. of events is incorrect and martin i bashir had shown a new before you introduce _

bashir had shown a new before you introduce him — bashir had shown a new before you introduce him to— bashir had shown a new before you introduce him to the _ bashir had shown a new before you introduce him to the princess - bashir had shown a new before you introduce him to the princess of. introduce him to the princess of wales — introduce him to the princess of wales. unfortunately, - introduce him to the princess of wales. unfortunately, the - introduce him to the princess of. wales. unfortunately, the account you gives — wales. unfortunately, the account you gives does _ wales. unfortunately, the account you gives does not _ wales. unfortunately, the account you gives does not accord - wales. unfortunately, the account you gives does not accord with - wales. unfortunately, the account you gives does not accord with the account— you gives does not accord with the account that — you gives does not accord with the account that martin _ you gives does not accord with the account that martin bashir- you gives does not accord with the account that martin bashir gives . you gives does not accord with the| account that martin bashir gives to the bbc _ account that martin bashir gives to the bbc the — account that martin bashir gives to the bbc. the bbc— account that martin bashir gives to the bbc. the bbc can _ account that martin bashir gives to the bbc. the bbc can only- account that martin bashir gives to the bbc. the bbc can only rely- account that martin bashir gives to the bbc. the bbc can only rely onl the bbc. the bbc can only rely on what _ the bbc. the bbc can only rely on what our— the bbc. the bbc can only rely on what our historic— the bbc. the bbc can only rely on what our historic records - the bbc. the bbc can only rely on what our historic records show.". i the bbc. the bbc can only rely on . what our historic records show.". of course, _ what our historic records show.". of course, that— what our historic records show.". of course, that is— what our historic records show.". of course, that is not— what our historic records show.". of course, that is not true. _ what our historic records show.". of course, that is not true. the - what our historic records show.". of course, that is not true. the bbc. course, that is not true. the bbc can, _ course, that is not true. the bbc can, as _ course, that is not true. the bbc can, as lord _ course, that is not true. the bbc can, as lord dyson _ course, that is not true. the bbc can, as lord dyson dead, - course, that is not true. the bbc can, as lord dyson dead, seek. can, as lord dyson dead, seek additional— can, as lord dyson dead, seek additional information. - can, as lord dyson dead, seek additional information. the - can, as lord dyson dead, seekl additional information. the key can, as lord dyson dead, seek- additional information. the key bit of information— additional information. the key bit of information you _ additional information. the key bit of information you needed - additional information. the key bit of information you needed to - additional information. the key bit of information you needed to findl of information you needed to find out as— of information you needed to find out as editor— of information you needed to find out as editor in _ of information you needed to find out as editor in chief— of information you needed to find out as editor in chief was - of information you needed to find out as editor in chief was what i of information you needed to findl out as editor in chief was what did earl out as editor in chief was what did eari spencer — out as editor in chief was what did earl spencer now? _ out as editor in chief was what did earl spencer now? earl— out as editor in chief was what did earl spencer now? earl spencer. earl spencer now? earl spencer thought— earl spencer now? earl spencer thought that _ earl spencer now? earl spencer thought that you _ earl spencer now? earl spencer thought that you are _ earl spencer now? earl spencer thought that you are headed . earl spencer now? earl spencerj thought that you are headed for another— thought that you are headed for another covid _ thought that you are headed for another covid up _ thought that you are headed for another covid up and _ thought that you are headed for another covid up and he - thought that you are headed for another covid up and he gave . thought that you are headed for| another covid up and he gave up thought that you are headed for- another covid up and he gave up on you and _ another covid up and he gave up on you and he — another covid up and he gave up on you and he went _ another covid up and he gave up on you and he went to _ another covid up and he gave up on you and he went to the _ another covid up and he gave up on you and he went to the daily - another covid up and he gave up on you and he went to the daily meal. | another covid up and he gave up onl you and he went to the daily meal. i you and he went to the daily meal. largely agree with your analysis. you and he went to the daily meal.|] largely agree with your analysis. my statement was unfortunately your account... the one bit of missing information i had was what earl spencer had. that is why i wrote, if you would like to discuss this

further or share information, we are ready to engage. use further or share information, we are ready to engage-— ready to engage. use suggested to him internal— ready to engage. use suggested to him internal investigation, - ready to engage. use suggested to him internal investigation, which . ready to engage. use suggested to him internal investigation, which is not what _ him internal investigation, which is not what he — him internal investigation, which is not what he wanted, _ him internal investigation, which is not what he wanted, he _ him internal investigation, which is not what he wanted, he wanted - him internal investigation, which is not what he wanted, he wanted a i not what he wanted, he wanted a public _ not what he wanted, he wanted a public inquiry, _ not what he wanted, he wanted a public inquiry, which _ not what he wanted, he wanted a public inquiry, which eventually l not what he wanted, he wanted a . public inquiry, which eventually you considered — public inquiry, which eventually you considered. just— public inquiry, which eventually you considered. , , ., public inquiry, which eventually you considered, , ., _, considered. just for the record, the internal investigation, _ considered. just for the record, the internal investigation, i _ considered. just for the record, the internal investigation, i am - considered. just for the record, the internal investigation, i am not - internal investigation, i am not sure what you're getting that from. from earl spencer's e—mails. let's move _ from earl spencer's e—mails. let's move on— from earl spencer's e—mails. let's move on a — from earl spencer's e—mails. let's move on a bit _ from earl spencer's e—mails. let's move on a bit. how— from earl spencer's e—mails. let's move on a bit. how much - from earl spencer's e—mails. let's move on a bit. how much research from earl spencer's e—mails. let's - move on a bit. how much research did you do— move on a bit. how much research did you do before — move on a bit. how much research did you do before firing _ move on a bit. how much research did you do before firing off— move on a bit. how much research did you do before firing off your— move on a bit. how much research did you do before firing off your e—mail. you do before firing off your e—mail to eari— you do before firing off your e—mail to earl spencer? _ you do before firing off your e—mail to earl spencer? for— you do before firing off your e—mail to earl spencer? for instance, - you do before firing off your e—mail to earl spencer? for instance, that| to earl spencer? for instance, that you phone — to earl spencer? for instance, that you phone tony— to earl spencer? for instance, that you phone tony hall— to earl spencer? for instance, that you phone tony hall to _ to earl spencer? for instance, that you phone tony hall to ask- to earl spencer? for instance, that you phone tony hall to ask him - to earl spencer? for instance, that. you phone tony hall to ask him about events? _ you phone tony hall to ask him about events? because _ you phone tony hall to ask him about events? because he _ you phone tony hall to ask him about events? because he had _ you phone tony hall to ask him about events? because he had been - you phone tony hall to ask him about events? because he had been the - you phone tony hall to ask him about. events? because he had been the boss at the _ events? because he had been the boss at the time _ events? because he had been the boss at the time and — events? because he had been the boss at the time and we _ events? because he had been the boss at the time and we knew— events? because he had been the boss at the time and we knew she _ events? because he had been the boss at the time and we knew she was - at the time and we knew she was sitting _ at the time and we knew she was sitting on— at the time and we knew she was sitting on this _ at the time and we knew she was sitting on this absolutely - at the time and we knew she was sitting on this absolutely crucial i sitting on this absolutely crucial bit of— sitting on this absolutely crucial bit of information _ sitting on this absolutely crucial bit of information which - sitting on this absolutely crucial bit of information which showed sitting on this absolutely crucial - bit of information which showed that martin— bit of information which showed that martin bashir— bit of information which showed that martin bashir had _ bit of information which showed that martin bashir had lied _ bit of information which showed that martin bashir had lied to— bit of information which showed that martin bashir had lied to his - martin bashir had lied to his bosses _ martin bashir had lied to his bosses who _

martin bashir had lied to his bosses. who did _ martin bashir had lied to his bosses. who did you - martin bashir had lied to his bosses. who did you speakl martin bashir had lied to his i bosses. who did you speak to martin bashir had lied to his - bosses. who did you speak to before you sent _ bosses. who did you speak to before you sent of _ bosses. who did you speak to before you sent of this— bosses. who did you speak to before you sent of this slightly _ bosses. who did you speak to before you sent of this slightly dismissive . you sent of this slightly dismissive sounding — you sent of this slightly dismissive sounding e—mail, _ you sent of this slightly dismissive sounding e—mail, at— you sent of this slightly dismissive sounding e—mail, at least- you sent of this slightly dismissive sounding e—mail, at least that - you sent of this slightly dismissive sounding e—mail, at least that is l sounding e—mail, at least that is what _ sounding e—mail, at least that is what eari— sounding e—mail, at least that is what earl spencer— sounding e—mail, at least that is what earl spencer thought. - sounding e—mail, at least that is what earl spencer thought. i - what earl spencer thought. understand, but i do not what earl spencer thought.“ understand, but i do not see what earl spencer thought.- understand, but i do not see as what earl spencer thought._ understand, but i do not see as this dismissive. i see it as the key thing i was trying to do. you will appreciate that you do a full external investigation of this scale is a major decision and a rare thing to do because the significance of it, the cost to the licence fee payer. the key thing i wanted to do was get the evidence from earl spencer, which she did give me on the 2nd of november. he gave me bits of evidence which then got others to a point where we could go after this. ,, . , ., ., ., a point where we could go after this. ,, . i. ., ., ,,, . this. since you quoted earl spencer arain, let this. since you quoted earl spencer again. let me _ this. since you quoted earl spencer again, let me quote _ this. since you quoted earl spencer again, let me quote his _ this. since you quoted earl spencer again, let me quote his response . this. since you quoted earl spencer| again, let me quote his response to you up— again, let me quote his response to you up he _ again, let me quote his response to you up he said. _ again, let me quote his response to you up he said. the _ again, let me quote his response to you up he said, the mr— again, let me quote his response to you up he said, the mr davie, - again, let me quote his response to you up he said, the mr davie, you l you up he said, the mr davie, you have _ you up he said, the mr davie, you have offered — you up he said, the mr davie, you have offered a _ you up he said, the mr davie, you have offered a full— you up he said, the mr davie, you have offered a full bbc— have offered a full bbc investigation. - have offered a full bbc investigation. given i have offered a full bbci investigation. given that have offered a full bbc- investigation. given that the have offered a full bbc—

investigation. given that the deeply concerning — investigation. given that the deeply concerning way— investigation. given that the deeply concerning way in _ investigation. given that the deeply concerning way in which _ investigation. given that the deeply concerning way in which your - investigation. given that the deeply concerning way in which your april. concerning way in which your april 1996 investigation— concerning way in which your april 1996 investigation was _ concerning way in which your aprilj 1996 investigation was conducted, that is— 1996 investigation was conducted, that is the — 1996 investigation was conducted, that is the investigation _ 1996 investigation was conducted, that is the investigation were - 1996 investigation was conducted, j that is the investigation were tony hall that is the investigation were tony hail wrote — that is the investigation were tony hail wrote to — that is the investigation were tony hall wrote to the _ that is the investigation were tony hall wrote to the board _ that is the investigation were tony hall wrote to the board blaming i that is the investigation were tony. hall wrote to the board blaming earl spencer— hall wrote to the board blaming earl spencer for— hall wrote to the board blaming earl spencer for the _ hall wrote to the board blaming earl spencer for the dodgy— hall wrote to the board blaming earl spencer for the dodgy graph - hall wrote to the board blaming earl spencer for the dodgy graph sized . spencer for the dodgy graph sized letter, _ spencer for the dodgy graph sized letter, and — spencer for the dodgy graph sized letter, and saying _ spencer for the dodgy graph sized letter, and saying that _ spencer for the dodgy graph sized letter, and saying that earl- spencer for the dodgy graph sized i letter, and saying that earl spencer had provided — letter, and saying that earl spencer had provided the _ letter, and saying that earl spencer had provided the information - letter, and saying that earl spencer had provided the information for. letter, and saying that earl spencer| had provided the information for the fake documents. _ had provided the information for the fake documents. slurring _ had provided the information for the fake documents. slurring earl- fake documents. slurring earl spencer— fake documents. slurring earl spencer without _ fake documents. slurring earl spencer without having - fake documents. slurring earl spencer without having ever. fake documents. slurring earl- spencer without having ever found earl spencer~ _ spencer without having ever found earl spencer. you _ spencer without having ever found earl spencer. you can _ spencer without having ever found earl spencer. you can understandl earl spencer. you can understand earl spencer. you can understand earl spencer _ earl spencer. you can understand earl spencer was _ earl spencer. you can understand earl spencer was feeling - earl spencer. you can understand earl spencer was feeling a - earl spencer. you can understand earl spencer was feeling a little l earl spencer was feeling a little bit suspicious— earl spencer was feeling a little bit suspicious of— earl spencer was feeling a little bit suspicious of bbc— earl spencer was feeling a little bit suspicious of bbc internal. bit suspicious of bbc internal enquiries _ bit suspicious of bbc internal enquiries. his— bit suspicious of bbc internal enquiries. his last _ bit suspicious of bbc internal enquiries. his last letter- bit suspicious of bbc internal enquiries. his last letter to. bit suspicious of bbc internal. enquiries. his last letter to you, last line — enquiries. his last letter to you, last line of— enquiries. his last letter to you, last line of his— enquiries. his last letter to you, last line of his letter, _ enquiries. his last letter to you, last line of his letter, was - enquiries. his last letter to you, last line of his letter, was i'm i last line of his letter, was i'm therefore _ last line of his letter, was i'm therefore going _ last line of his letter, was i'm therefore going to _ last line of his letter, was i'm therefore going to seek- last line of his letter, was i'm therefore going to seek an i therefore going to seek an independent _ therefore going to seek an independent inquiry. - therefore going to seek an independent inquiry. i- therefore going to seek anj independent inquiry. i also therefore going to seek an - independent inquiry. i also have an email— independent inquiry. i also have an email here — independent inquiry. i also have an e—mail here from _ independent inquiry. i also have an e—mail here from earl— independent inquiry. i also have an e—mail here from earl spencer- independent inquiry. i also have an e—mail here from earl spencer to. independent inquiry. i also have an e—mail here from earl spencer to aj e—mail here from earl spencer to a third _ e—mail here from earl spencer to a third party, — e—mail here from earl spencer to a third party. saying _ e—mail here from earl spencer to a third party, saying tim _ e—mail here from earl spencer to a third party, saying tim davie's- third party, saying tim davie's response _ third party, saying tim davie's response was _ third party, saying tim davie's response was the _ third party, saying tim davie's response was the final - third party, saying tim davie's response was the final straw l third party, saying tim davie's. response was the final straw for third party, saying tim davie's- response was the final straw for me that is— response was the final straw for me that is why— response was the final straw for me that is why i — response was the final straw for me that is why i went _ response was the final straw for me that is why i went public. _ response was the final straw for me that is why i went public. they- response was the final straw for me| that is why i went public. they knew that is why i went public. they knew

that martin — that is why i went public. they knew that martin bashir— that is why i went public. they knew that martin bashir had _ that is why i went public. they knew that martin bashir had lied, - that is why i went public. they knew that martin bashir had lied, so- that is why i went public. they knew that martin bashir had lied, so howl that martin bashir had lied, so how on earth _ that martin bashir had lied, so how on earth could _ that martin bashir had lied, so how on earth could they _ that martin bashir had lied, so how on earth could they rely _ that martin bashir had lied, so how on earth could they rely on - that martin bashir had lied, so how on earth could they rely on martin. on earth could they rely on martin bashir's _ on earth could they rely on martin bashir's version _ on earth could they rely on martin bashir's version of _ on earth could they rely on martin bashir's version of events? - on earth could they rely on martin bashir's version of events? he - on earth could they rely on martin l bashir's version of events? he went to the _ bashir's version of events? he went to the mail. — bashir's version of events? he went to the mail. your— bashir's version of events? he went to the mail, your hands _ bashir's version of events? he went to the mail, your hands were - bashir's version of events? he went to the mail, your hands were tied, i to the mail, your hands were tied, and you _ to the mail, your hands were tied, and you then — to the mail, your hands were tied, and you then had _ to the mail, your hands were tied, and you then had to— to the mail, your hands were tied, and you then had to public- to the mail, your hands were tied, | and you then had to public inquiry. your— and you then had to public inquiry. your version — and you then had to public inquiry. your version of— and you then had to public inquiry. your version of events _ and you then had to public inquiry. your version of events was - your version of events was essentially— your version of events was essentially martin - your version of events was essentially martin bashir's| your version of events was - essentially martin bashir's version of the _ essentially martin bashir's version of the events _ essentially martin bashir's version of the events. as _ essentially martin bashir's version of the events. as we _ essentially martin bashir's version of the events. as we know, - essentially martin bashir's version of the events. as we know, earl. of the events. as we know, earl spencer— of the events. as we know, earl spencer was— of the events. as we know, earl spencer was enraged. _ of the events. as we know, earl spencer was enraged. had - of the events. as we know, earl spencer was enraged. had you. of the events. as we know, earl. spencer was enraged. had you talk of the events. as we know, earl- spencer was enraged. had you talk to tony hall, _ spencer was enraged. had you talk to tony hall, and — spencer was enraged. had you talk to tony hall. and i'm _ spencer was enraged. had you talk to tony hall, and i'm waiting _ spencer was enraged. had you talk to tony hall, and i'm waiting to - spencer was enraged. had you talk to tony hall, and i'm waiting to hear- tony hall, and i'm waiting to hear if you _ tony hall, and i'm waiting to hear if you did, — tony hall, and i'm waiting to hear if you did, he _ tony hall, and i'm waiting to hear if you did, he would _ tony hall, and i'm waiting to hear if you did, he would have - tony hall, and i'm waiting to hear if you did, he would have been. tony hall, and i'm waiting to hear. if you did, he would have been able to tell— if you did, he would have been able to tell you — if you did, he would have been able to tell you about _ if you did, he would have been able to tell you about this _ if you did, he would have been able to tell you about this tim _ if you did, he would have been able to tell you about this tim gordon i to tell you about this tim gordon may now— to tell you about this tim gordon may now -- _ to tell you about this tim gordon may now -- memo— to tell you about this tim gordon may now —— memo which - to tell you about this tim gordon may now —— memo which he - to tell you about this tim gordon - may now —— memo which he discovered martin— may now —— memo which he discovered martin bashir— may now —— memo which he discovered martin bashir had _ may now —— memo which he discovered martin bashir had a _ may now —— memo which he discovered martin bashir had a reply— may now —— memo which he discovered martin bashir had a reply to— may now —— memo which he discovered martin bashir had a reply to three - martin bashir had a reply to three times _ martin bashir had a reply to three times that— martin bashir had a reply to three times that you _ martin bashir had a reply to three times. that you talk _ martin bashir had a reply to three times. that you talk to _ martin bashir had a reply to three times. that you talk to tony - martin bashir had a reply to three | times. that you talk to tony hall? while _ times. that you talk to tony hall? while unclear, _ times. that you talk to tony hall? while unclear, i'm _ times. that you talk to tony hall? while unclear, i'm sympathetic. times. that you talk to tony hall? while unclear, i'm sympathetic to| while unclear, i'm sympathetic to your analysis in terms of earl spencer and the way in which she was not given the chance to respond 25

years ago, i understand why that can impact us. —— she was not given the chance. impact us. -- she was not given the chance. , ,., ., ., , impact us. -- she was not given the chance. , ., .,, , chance. the person who was still around and _ chance. the person who was still around and could _ chance. the person who was still around and could have _ chance. the person who was still around and could have answered | chance. the person who was still - around and could have answered the question— around and could have answered the question was — around and could have answered the question was tony _ around and could have answered the question was tony hall, _ around and could have answered the question was tony hall, and - around and could have answered the question was tony hall, and you - around and could have answered the question was tony hall, and you did | question was tony hall, and you did not respond — question was tony hall, and you did not respond to — question was tony hall, and you did not respond to him. _ question was tony hall, and you did not respond to him. that— question was tony hall, and you did not respond to him. that you - question was tony hall, and you did not respond to him. that you read l not respond to him. that you read the tim _ not respond to him. that you read the tim suter— not respond to him. that you read the tim suter document— not respond to him. that you read the tim suter document from - not respond to him. that you read the tim suter document from thei not respond to him. that you read - the tim suter document from the time which _ the tim suter document from the time which we _ the tim suter document from the time which we discovered _ the tim suter document from the time which we discovered was _ the tim suter document from the time which we discovered was in _ the tim suter document from the time which we discovered was in the - the tim suter document from the time which we discovered was in the files i which we discovered was in the files which _ which we discovered was in the files which said _ which we discovered was in the files which said that _ which we discovered was in the files which said that martin _ which we discovered was in the files which said that martin bashir- which we discovered was in the files which said that martin bashir had i which said that martin bashir had been _ which said that martin bashir had been reprimanded? _ which said that martin bashir had been reprimanded? i— which said that martin bashir had been reprimanded? i have - which said that martin bashir had been reprimanded? i have the i which said that martin bashir had. been reprimanded? i have the tim suter— been reprimanded? i have the tim suter e-maii— been reprimanded? i have the tim suter e—mail here— been reprimanded? i have the tim suter e—mail here to _ been reprimanded? i have the tim suter e—mail here to martin- been reprimanded? i have the timl suter e—mail here to martin bashir, which _ suter e—mail here to martin bashir, which says— suter e—mail here to martin bashir, which says he — suter e—mail here to martin bashir, which says he in— suter e—mail here to martin bashir, which says be in no— suter e—mail here to martin bashir, which says be in no doubt, - suter e—mail here to martin bashir, which says be in no doubt, this - which says be in no doubt, this represents— which says be in no doubt, this represents a _ which says be in no doubt, this represents a reprimand. - which says be in no doubt, this represents a reprimand. did i which says be in no doubt, this. represents a reprimand. did you which says be in no doubt, this - represents a reprimand. did you read that? _ represents a reprimand. did you read that? ., �* 4' represents a reprimand. did you read that? ., �* ~ ., that? now, i didn't. ithink what we're missing — that? now, i didn't. ithink what we're missing here _ that? now, i didn't. ithink what we're missing here is— that? now, i didn't. ithink what we're missing here is the - that? now, | didn't. ithink what. we're missing here is the report... the bbc's investigation in 1996 stood that point, and it was actually by the fact that i went and hid and did two commissioned the independent review. that then led to

the garden at night coming forward. you commissioned the bbc's report after the _ you commissioned the bbc's report after the daily— you commissioned the bbc's report after the daily mail— you commissioned the bbc's report after the daily mail had _ you commissioned the bbc's report after the daily mail had published, i after the daily mail had published, so your— after the daily mail had published, so your hand — after the daily mail had published, so your hand was _ after the daily mail had published, so your hand was forced _ after the daily mail had published, so your hand was forced little - after the daily mail had published, so your hand was forced little bit. i so your hand was forced little bit. you did _ so your hand was forced little bit. you did not — so your hand was forced little bit. you did not talk— so your hand was forced little bit. you did not talk to _ so your hand was forced little bit. you did not talk to tony- so your hand was forced little bit. you did not talk to tony hall, - so your hand was forced little bit. you did not talk to tony hall, you did not— you did not talk to tony hall, you did not read — you did not talk to tony hall, you did not read the _ you did not talk to tony hall, you did not read the file _ you did not talk to tony hall, you did not read the file with - you did not talk to tony hall, you did not read the file with the - you did not talk to tony hall, you did not read the file with the tim | did not read the file with the tim suter— did not read the file with the tim suter a _ did not read the file with the tim suter a letter— did not read the file with the tim suter a letter to _ did not read the file with the tim suter a letter to martin - did not read the file with the tim suter a letter to martin bashir, l did not read the file with the tim . suter a letter to martin bashir, and you did _ suter a letter to martin bashir, and you did not — suter a letter to martin bashir, and you did not know— suter a letter to martin bashir, and you did not know about _ suter a letter to martin bashir, and you did not know about the - suter a letter to martin bashir, and you did not know about the tim - you did not know about the tim gardam — you did not know about the tim gardam document. _ you did not know about the tim gardam document. you - you did not know about the tim gardam document. you agree i you did not know about the tim i gardam document. you agree that you did not know about the tim - gardam document. you agree that the bbc's _ gardam document. you agree that the bbc's position— gardam document. you agree that the bbc's position was _ gardam document. you agree that the bbc's position was the _ gardam document. you agree that the bbc's position was the martin - gardam document. you agree that the bbc's position was the martin bashir. bbc's position was the martin bashir position _ bbc's position was the martin bashir position 0f— bbc's position was the martin bashir position. of course, _ bbc's position was the martin bashir position. of course, you _ bbc's position was the martin bashir position. of course, you mentionedl position. of course, you mentioned the tim _ position. of course, you mentioned the tim gardam— position. of course, you mentioned the tim gardam document, - position. of course, you mentioned the tim gardam document, and - position. of course, you mentionedl the tim gardam document, and that was key, _ the tim gardam document, and that was key. because _ the tim gardam document, and that was key, because it _ the tim gardam document, and that was key, because it was _ the tim gardam document, and that was key, because it was given- the tim gardam document, and that was key, because it was given to - was key, because it was given to tony— was key, because it was given to tony hail— was key, because it was given to tony hall and _ was key, because it was given to tony hall and it _ was key, because it was given to tony hall and it showed - was key, because it was given to tony hall and it showed that - was key, because it was given to i tony hall and it showed that martin bashir— tony hall and it showed that martin bashir had — tony hall and it showed that martin bashir had lied _ tony hall and it showed that martin bashir had lied on— tony hall and it showed that martin bashir had lied on a _ tony hall and it showed that martin bashir had lied on a number- tony hall and it showed that martin bashir had lied on a number of- tony hall and it showed that martin. bashir had lied on a number of times to management _ bashir had lied on a number of times to management. you _ bashir had lied on a number of times to management. you have _ bashir had lied on a number of timesi to management. you have mentioned that got— to management. you have mentioned that got into — to management. you have mentioned that got into the —

to management. you have mentioned that got into the independent - that got into the independent investigation _ that got into the independent investigation files. _ that got into the independent investigation files. where - that got into the independent investigation files. where is i that got into the independent. investigation files. where is that document? _ investigation files. where is that document? itilte— investigation files. where is that document?— investigation files. where is that document? ~ ., . investigation files. where is that document? ., . ., document? we cannot find it. we have done very rigorous _ document? we cannot find it. we have done very rigorous searching _ document? we cannot find it. we have done very rigorous searching for- document? we cannot find it. we have done very rigorous searching for the i done very rigorous searching for the handwritten note. after 25 years, we cannot find it. handwritten note. after 25 years, we cannot find it— cannot find it. who do you believe destro ed cannot find it. who do you believe destroyed it? _ cannot find it. who do you believe destroyed it? i— cannot find it. who do you believe destroyed it? i have _ cannot find it. who do you believe destroyed it? i have no _ cannot find it. who do you believe destroyed it? i have no idea - cannot find it. who do you believe destroyed it? i have no idea at - cannot find it. who do you believe| destroyed it? i have no idea at all. b the destroyed it? i have no idea at all. by the way. _ destroyed it? i have no idea at all. by the way. i _ destroyed it? i have no idea at all. by the way. i do — destroyed it? i have no idea at all. by the way, i do not _ destroyed it? i have no idea at all. by the way, i do not agree... - destroyed it? i have no idea at all. by the way, i do not agree... very| by the way, i do not agree... very well advised he taking the advice i needed, we agreed with the martin bashir position. it was the 1996 review, which we now know has all the flaws in an. you can talk about what motivated that, the public and private discussions, the press coverage and the e—mails, but the clear position from me was that

there was a substantive source of fresh evidence, we would investigate... mr fresh evidence, we would investigate. . ._ fresh evidence, we would investigate... fresh evidence, we would investiuate... ., ., investigate... mr davie you have had u . investigate... mr davie you have had u- from investigate... mr davie you have had up from channel _ investigate... mr davie you have had up from channel 4, _ investigate... mr davie you have had up from channel 4, who _ investigate... mr davie you have had up from channel 4, who had - investigate... mr davie you have had up from channel 4, who had writtenl up from channel 4, who had written to you _ up from channel 4, who had written to you with— up from channel 4, who had written to you with it — up from channel 4, who had written to you with it and _ up from channel 4, who had written to you with it and offered _ up from channel 4, who had written to you with it and offered it - up from channel 4, who had written to you with it and offered it to - to you with it and offered it to you. _ to you with it and offered it to you. and _ to you with it and offered it to you. and you _ to you with it and offered it to you. and you just— to you with it and offered it to you, and you just missed - to you with it and offered it to you, and you just missed it. l to you with it and offered it to i you, and you just missed it. you have _ you, and you just missed it. you have got— you, and you just missed it. you have got a — you, and you just missed it. you have got a press— you, and you just missed it. you have got a press officer- you, and you just missed it. you have got a press officer saying . you, and you just missed it. you. have got a press officer saying we are not— have got a press officer saying we are not reopening _ have got a press officer saying we are not reopening this. _ have got a press officer saying we are not reopening this. you - have got a press officer saying we are not reopening this. you havel have got a press officer saying we i are not reopening this. you have the fresh _ are not reopening this. you have the fresh evidence~ _ are not reopening this. you have the fresh evidence. the _ are not reopening this. you have the fresh evidence. the thing _ are not reopening this. you have the fresh evidence. the thing about - are not reopening this. you have the fresh evidence. the thing about thel fresh evidence. the thing about the tim gardam — fresh evidence. the thing about the tim gardam document, _ fresh evidence. the thing about the tim gardam document, which - fresh evidence. the thing about the tim gardam document, which is - fresh evidence. the thing about the tim gardam document, which is so| tim gardam document, which is so important. — tim gardam document, which is so important. is— tim gardam document, which is so important, is having _ tim gardam document, which is so important, is having slip _ tim gardam document, which is so important, is having slip down - tim gardam document, which is so important, is having slip down thel important, is having slip down the back of— important, is having slip down the back of a — important, is having slip down the back of a bbc_ important, is having slip down the back of a bbc sofa _ important, is having slip down the back of a bbc sofa somewhere, i important, is having slip down the. back of a bbc sofa somewhere, had important, is having slip down the - back of a bbc sofa somewhere, had it not been _ back of a bbc sofa somewhere, had it not been for— back of a bbc sofa somewhere, had it not been for the — back of a bbc sofa somewhere, had it not been for the fact _ back of a bbc sofa somewhere, had it not been for the fact that _ back of a bbc sofa somewhere, had it not been for the fact that tim - not been for the fact that tim gardam — not been for the fact that tim gardam himself— not been for the fact that tim gardam himself had - not been for the fact that tim gardam himself had a - not been for the fact that tim gardam himself had a copy. not been for the fact that timj gardam himself had a copy of not been for the fact that tim . gardam himself had a copy of it not been for the fact that tim - gardam himself had a copy of it and submitted _ gardam himself had a copy of it and submitted it— gardam himself had a copy of it and submitted it to _ gardam himself had a copy of it and submitted it to lord _ gardam himself had a copy of it and submitted it to lord dyson, - gardam himself had a copy of it and submitted it to lord dyson, lord - submitted it to lord dyson, lord dyson— submitted it to lord dyson, lord dyson would _ submitted it to lord dyson, lord dyson would have _ submitted it to lord dyson, lord dyson would have been - submitted it to lord dyson, lord dyson would have been unable i submitted it to lord dyson, lordl dyson would have been unable to determine — dyson would have been unable to determine bbc _ dyson would have been unable to determine bbc wrongdoing. - dyson would have been unable to determine bbc wrongdoing. thisl dyson would have been unable to. determine bbc wrongdoing. this is dyson would have been unable to i determine bbc wrongdoing. this is a key document. — determine bbc wrongdoing. this is a key document, there _ determine bbc wrongdoing. this is a key document, there is _ determine bbc wrongdoing. this is a key document, there is suspiciouslyl key document, there is suspiciously -- very— key document, there is suspiciously —— very suspiciously, _ key document, there is suspiciously —— very suspiciously, disappeared, i —— very suspiciously, disappeared, and without— —— very suspiciously, disappeared, and without it _ —— very suspiciously, disappeared, and without it we _ —— very suspiciously, disappeared, and without it we would _

—— very suspiciously, disappeared, and without it we would not - —— very suspiciously, disappeared, and without it we would not be - and without it we would not be sitting — and without it we would not be sitting here _ and without it we would not be sitting here now. _ and without it we would not be sitting here now. tind- and without it we would not be sitting here now.— and without it we would not be sitting here now. and that is one of the benefits — sitting here now. and that is one of the benefits of _ sitting here now. and that is one of the benefits of having _ sitting here now. and that is one of the benefits of having such - sitting here now. and that is one of the benefits of having such a - the benefits of having such a rigorous process led by lord dyson. no thanks to the bbc. it was tim gardam — no thanks to the bbc. it was tim gardam who— no thanks to the bbc. it was tim gardam who submitted _ no thanks to the bbc. it was tim gardam who submitted it. - no thanks to the bbc. it was tim gardam who submitted it. the i no thanks to the bbc. it was tim i gardam who submitted it. the few i understand~ — gardam who submitted it. the few i understand. but _ gardam who submitted it. the few i understand. but the _ gardam who submitted it. the few i understand. but the process - gardam who submitted it. the few i understand. but the process that i gardam who submitted it. the few i | understand. but the process that we put in _ understand. but the process that we put in train _ understand. but the process that we put in train by— understand. but the process that we put in train by putting _ understand. but the process that we put in train by putting in— understand. but the process that we put in train by putting in an - understand. but the process that we put in train by putting in an egg - put in train by putting in an egg supreme— put in train by putting in an egg sumeme court_ put in train by putting in an egg supreme courtjudge _ put in train by putting in an egg supreme courtjudge with- put in train by putting in an egg supreme court judge with this. put in train by putting in an egg - supreme court judge with this level of credibility— supreme court judge with this level of credibility and _ supreme court judge with this level of credibility and independent - of credibility and independent oversight— of credibility and independent oversight enabled _ of credibility and independent oversight enabled us - of credibility and independent oversight enabled us to - of credibility and independent. oversight enabled us to correct a process— oversight enabled us to correct a process work _ oversight enabled us to correct a process work that _ oversight enabled us to correct a process work that document - oversight enabled us to correct a process work that document wasj process work that document was found _ process work that document was found~ i— process work that document was found~ i know_ process work that document was found. i know it _ process work that document was found. i know it was _ process work that document was found. i know it was not - process work that document was found. i know it was not found . found. i know it was not found within — found. i know it was not found within the _ found. i know it was not found within the bbc. _ found. i know it was not found within the bbc. after- found. i know it was not found within the bbc. after we - within the bbc. after we established, _ within the bbc. after we established, it— within the bbc. after we established, it was - within the bbc. after we established, it was afterj within the bbc. after we - established, it was after you dismissed _ established, it was after you dismissed channel— established, it was after you dismissed channel 4 - established, it was after you i dismissed channel 4 requests established, it was after you - dismissed channel 4 requests and only after— dismissed channel 4 requests and only after earl _ dismissed channel 4 requests and only after earl spencer— dismissed channel 4 requests and only after earl spencer had - dismissed channel 4 requests and only after earl spencer had gone i dismissed channel 4 requests and i only after earl spencer had gone to the deity— only after earl spencer had gone to the daily mail. _ only after earl spencer had gone to the daily mail, plus _ only after earl spencer had gone to the daily mail, plus forcing - only after earl spencer had gone to the daily mail, plus forcing your. the daily mail, plus forcing your hand~ _ the daily mail, plus forcing your hand~ the — the daily mail, plus forcing your hand. the rehiring _ the daily mail, plus forcing your hand. the rehiring of— the daily mail, plus forcing your hand. the rehiring of martin- the daily mail, plus forcing your i hand. the rehiring of martin bashir and yesterday's _ hand. the rehiring of martin bashir and yesterday's ludicrous - hand. the rehiring of martin bashir and yesterday's ludicrous report i hand. the rehiring of martin bashir and yesterday's ludicrous report by

mr mcquarrie. _ and yesterday's ludicrous report by mr mcquarrie, of— and yesterday's ludicrous report by mr mcquarrie, of course, - and yesterday's ludicrous report by mr mcquarrie, of course, suggests that the— mr mcquarrie, of course, suggests that the bbc— mr mcquarrie, of course, suggests that the bbc has— mr mcquarrie, of course, suggests that the bbc has not— mr mcquarrie, of course, suggests that the bbc has not changed - mr mcquarrie, of course, suggests that the bbc has not changed in i mr mcquarrie, of course, suggestsl that the bbc has not changed in the way that— that the bbc has not changed in the way that many— that the bbc has not changed in the way that many want. _ that the bbc has not changed in the way that many want. the _ that the bbc has not changed in the way that many want. the idea - that the bbc has not changed in the way that many want. the idea that. way that many want. the idea that nobody _ way that many want. the idea that nobody knew — way that many want. the idea that nobody knew what _ way that many want. the idea that nobody knew what he _ way that many want. the idea that nobody knew what he had - way that many want. the idea that nobody knew what he had been . way that many want. the idea that nobody knew what he had been upj way that many want. the idea that. nobody knew what he had been up to in the _ nobody knew what he had been up to in the us _ nobody knew what he had been up to in the us i_ nobody knew what he had been up to in the us. i mean, _ nobody knew what he had been up to in the us. i mean, can— nobody knew what he had been up to in the us. i mean, can i— nobody knew what he had been up to in the us. i mean, can i recommendi in the us. i mean, can i recommend googte _ in the us. i mean, can i recommend googte for— in the us. i mean, can i recommend google for future _ in the us. i mean, can i recommend google for future hiring _ in the us. i mean, can i recommend google for future hiring purposes. . google for future hiring purposes. you could — google for future hiring purposes. you could have _ google for future hiring purposes. you could have found _ google for future hiring purposes. you could have found that - google for future hiring purposes. i you could have found that everything you needed _ you could have found that everything you needed to — you could have found that everything you needed to know— you could have found that everything you needed to know about _ you could have found that everything you needed to know about his- you could have found that everything j you needed to know about his history in the _ you needed to know about his history in the us— you needed to know about his history in the us simply— you needed to know about his history in the us simply tty— you needed to know about his history in the us simply by googling. - you needed to know about his history in the us simply by googling. i- in the us simply by googling. i think— in the us simply by googling. i think it — in the us simply by googling. i think it beggars— in the us simply by googling. i think it beggars belief- in the us simply by googling. i think it beggars belief that - in the us simply by googling. ij think it beggars belief that you rehired — think it beggars belief that you rehired him _ think it beggars belief that you rehired him for— think it beggars belief that you rehired him for this _ think it beggars belief that you rehired him for this importanti think it beggars belief that you - rehired him for this important post. you then— rehired him for this important post. you then did — rehired him for this important post. you then did not _ rehired him for this important post. you then did not sack— rehired him for this important post. you then did not sack him, - rehired him for this important post. you then did not sack him, you - you then did not sack him, you allowed — you then did not sack him, you allowed him _ you then did not sack him, you allowed him to _ you then did not sack him, you allowed him to leave _ you then did not sack him, you allowed him to leave and - you then did not sack him, you allowed him to leave and to - you then did not sack him, you l allowed him to leave and to work you then did not sack him, you - allowed him to leave and to work his notice _ allowed him to leave and to work his notice as— allowed him to leave and to work his notice~ as i— allowed him to leave and to work his notice. as i said _ allowed him to leave and to work his notice. as i said to— allowed him to leave and to work his notice. as i said to lord _ allowed him to leave and to work his notice. as i said to lord hall, - notice. as i said to lord hall, everybody _ notice. as i said to lord hall, everybody at _ notice. as i said to lord hall, everybody at the _ notice. as i said to lord hall, everybody at the bbc - notice. as i said to lord hall, i everybody at the bbc newsroom notice. as i said to lord hall, - everybody at the bbc newsroom was talking _ everybody at the bbc newsroom was talking about — everybody at the bbc newsroom was talking about the _ everybody at the bbc newsroom was talking about the rehiring _ everybody at the bbc newsroom was talking about the rehiring of - everybody at the bbc newsroom was talking about the rehiring of martin i talking about the rehiring of martin bashir, _ talking about the rehiring of martin bashir, everybody, _ talking about the rehiring of martin bashir, everybody, all— talking about the rehiring of martin bashir, everybody, all your- talking about the rehiring of martin bashir, everybody, all yourjournal| bashir, everybody, all yourjournal is found _ bashir, everybody, all yourjournal is found it — bashir, everybody, all yourjournal is found it extraordinary. - bashir, everybody, all yourjournal is found it extraordinary. where i bashir, everybody, all yourjournal| is found it extraordinary. where are you aware _ is found it extraordinary. where are you aware of— is found it extraordinary. where are you aware of that? _

is found it extraordinary. where are you aware of that?— you aware of that? when i did the rehired, i was _ you aware of that? when i did the rehired, i was in _ you aware of that? when i did the rehired, i was in a _ you aware of that? when i did the rehired, i was in a different - you aware of that? when i did the rehired, i was in a different part l rehired, i was in a different part of the bbc. i rehired, i was in a different part of the bbc-— rehired, i was in a different part of the bbc. . �* �* . of the bbc. i mean you the bbc as a cororate of the bbc. i mean you the bbc as a corporate body- _ of the bbc. i mean you the bbc as a corporate body. i— of the bbc. i mean you the bbc as a corporate body. i think— of the bbc. i mean you the bbc as a corporate body. i think the - corporate body. i think the mcquarrie _ corporate body. i think the mcquarrie review - corporate body. i think the mcquarrie review has - corporate body. i think the | mcquarrie review has found corporate body. i think the - mcquarrie review has found that corporate body. i think the _ mcquarrie review has found that what the corporate body new, and i think thatis the corporate body new, and i think that is where we are with the rehired. they clear evidence is that they did look at the us coverage, and also took references from the two american companies, and they judge those controversies and that was raised up and discussed... haste was raised up and discussed... have ou read was raised up and discussed... have you read what _ was raised up and discussed... have you read what he _ was raised up and discussed... have you read what he said _ was raised up and discussed... have you read what he said about sarah peeling _ you read what he said about sarah peeling two — you read what he said about sarah peeling two peeling? _ you read what he said about sarah peeling two peeling? the - peeling two peeling? the scatological_ peeling two peeling? the scatological comments i peeling two peeling? the| scatological comments he peeling two peeling? the - scatological comments he made peeling two peeling? the _ scatological comments he made about her were _ scatological comments he made about her were grotesque. _ scatological comments he made about her were grotesque. the _ scatological comments he made about her were grotesque. the idea - scatological comments he made about her were grotesque. the idea that- her were grotesque. the idea that you would —

her were grotesque. the idea that you would hire _ her were grotesque. the idea that you would hire somebody- her were grotesque. the idea that you would hire somebody who - her were grotesque. the idea that| you would hire somebody who had her were grotesque. the idea that- you would hire somebody who had said those things _ you would hire somebody who had said those things the — you would hire somebody who had said those things. the idea _ you would hire somebody who had said those things. the idea that _ you would hire somebody who had said those things. the idea that you - those things. the idea that you would — those things. the idea that you would hire _ those things. the idea that you would hire somebody- those things. the idea that you would hire somebody who - those things. the idea that you would hire somebody who said| those things. the idea that you - would hire somebody who said those things— would hire somebody who said those things on— would hire somebody who said those things on the — would hire somebody who said those things on the record _ would hire somebody who said those things on the record is _ things on the record is unbelievable. - things on the record is unbelievable. —— - things on the record is unbelievable. —— said| things on the record is - unbelievable. —— said palin. we things on the record is _ unbelievable. —— said palin. we were told by— unbelievable. —— said palin. we were told by lord — unbelievable. —— said palin. we were told by lord hatt— unbelievable. —— said palin. we were told by lord hall that _ unbelievable. —— said palin. we were told by lord hall that he _ unbelievable. —— said palin. we were told by lord hall that he had - unbelievable. —— said palin. we were told by lord hall that he had uniquei told by lord hall that he had unique journalistic— told by lord hall that he had unique journalistic skills _ told by lord hall that he had unique journalistic skills unavailable - told by lord hall that he had unique journalistic skills unavailable from l journalistic skills unavailable from anybody _ journalistic skills unavailable from anybody else _ journalistic skills unavailable from anybody else in _ journalistic skills unavailable from anybody else in the _ journalistic skills unavailable from anybody else in the bbc— journalistic skills unavailable from anybody else in the bbc and - journalistic skills unavailable from anybody else in the bbc and it - journalistic skills unavailable from | anybody else in the bbc and it was absolutely — anybody else in the bbc and it was absolutely vital _ anybody else in the bbc and it was absolutely vital to _ anybody else in the bbc and it was absolutely vital to get _ anybody else in the bbc and it was absolutely vital to get him - anybody else in the bbc and it was absolutely vital to get him in. - anybody else in the bbc and it was absolutely vital to get him in. do l absolutely vital to get him in. do you know — absolutely vital to get him in. do you know that— absolutely vital to get him in. do you know that he _ absolutely vital to get him in. do you know that he spent- absolutely vital to get him in. do you know that he spent more - absolutely vital to get him in. do i you know that he spent more prime time on _ you know that he spent more prime time on celebrity— you know that he spent more prime time on celebrity x _ you know that he spent more prime time on celebrity x factor— you know that he spent more prime time on celebrity x factor as - you know that he spent more prime time on celebrity x factor as the - time on celebrity x factor as the bbc's _ time on celebrity x factor as the bbc's religious— time on celebrity x factor as the bbc's religious editor— time on celebrity x factor as the bbc's religious editor than - time on celebrity x factor as the bbc's religious editor than he i time on celebrity x factor as the i bbc's religious editor than he did on television _ bbc's religious editor than he did on television reporting _ bbc's religious editor than he did| on television reporting television? i on television reporting television? i have _ on television reporting television? i have not— on television reporting television? i have not seen— on television reporting television? i have not seen those _ on television reporting television? i have not seen those hours - on television reporting television? i have not seen those hours in- on television reporting television? i i have not seen those hours in front of me, no. i have not seen those hours in front of me. no— of me, no. rather than suggest he was invaluable _ of me, no. rather than suggest he was invaluable to _ of me, no. rather than suggest he was invaluable to the _ of me, no. rather than suggest he was invaluable to the corporation l of me, no. rather than suggest he. was invaluable to the corporation as was invaluable to the corporation as was suggested _ was invaluable to the corporation as was suggested at _ was invaluable to the corporation as was suggested at the _

was invaluable to the corporation as was suggested at the time - was invaluable to the corporation as was suggested at the time of - was invaluable to the corporation as was suggested at the time of his - was suggested at the time of his hiring _ was suggested at the time of his hiring and — was suggested at the time of his hiring and subsequently. - was suggested at the time of his hiring and subsequently. mr- was suggested at the time of his hiring and subsequently. mr sharpe, it took four days _ hiring and subsequently. mr sharpe, it took four days for _ hiring and subsequently. mr sharpe, it took four days for there _ hiring and subsequently. mr sharpe, it took four days for there to - hiring and subsequently. mr sharpe, it took four days for there to be - hiring and subsequently. mr sharpe, it took four days for there to be a . it took four days for there to be a statement from the bbc following the publication of the report. i think in your interview with world at one, you said it was because it was worth deliberating and making sure that the responses were appropriate and comprehensive. ijust wonder, if it had been a politician or political party in similar circumstances, who delayed four days to make any comment in order to make sure that the response is appropriate and comprehensive, how you would expect bbc news organisations to respond to that delay? brute bbc news organisations to respond to that dela ? ~ ., bbc news organisations to respond to that dela ? ~ . ., . bbc news organisations to respond to thatdela ?~ . ., . that delay? we are not a politician, we are an organisation _ that delay? we are not a politician, we are an organisation that - that delay? we are not a politician, we are an organisation that has - that delay? we are not a politician, we are an organisation that has to l we are an organisation that has to take every— we are an organisation that has to take every step carefully. we had the report, we had to discuss the report, _ the report, we had to discuss the report, we — the report, we had to discuss the report, we had to go about the process— report, we had to go about the process in— report, we had to go about the process in the right way. i believe

it may— process in the right way. i believe it may have — process in the right way. i believe it may have also included a weekend, i it may have also included a weekend, i may— it may have also included a weekend, i may be _ it may have also included a weekend, i may be wrong on that. we it may have also included a weekend, i may be wrong on that.— i may be wrong on that. we are not excuse weekends _ i may be wrong on that. we are not excuse weekends as _ i may be wrong on that. we are not excuse weekends as politicians. - excuse weekends as politicians. indeed, to people in the bbc, that is a desire — indeed, to people in the bbc, that is a desire for a very quick response _ is a desire for a very quick response was up for my part, i thought— response was up for my part, i thought it — response was up for my part, i thought it was better to think it through— thought it was better to think it through carefully and think of the i’ili'it through carefully and think of the right response, and to take an appropriate amount of time. it was frustratin: appropriate amount of time. it was frustrating to _ appropriate amount of time. it was frustrating to your _ appropriate amount of time. it was frustrating to your colleagues - appropriate amount of time. it was frustrating to your colleagues at i frustrating to your colleagues at the bbc. we had text overload from bbc outlets looking for people to speak about the story in an absence of comment from their own employers. i think there is a very comic journalistic anxiety, but i think corporations have to build a cave in a very— corporations have to build a cave in a very different way. —— are very common—

a very different way. —— are very commonjournalistic anxiety. you common “ournalistic anxiety. you also said common journalistic anxiety. you also said that _ common journalistic anxiety. you also said that you _ commonjournalistic anxiety. gm. also said that you took comfort from the fact that martin bashir was no longer working at the compilation, but you did not yet have the comfort of knowing why he was rehired. —— the corporation. can you honestly say right now you have that knowledge and comfort? i say right now you have that knowledge and comfort? i cannot say i have comfort. _ knowledge and comfort? i cannot say i have comfort. i— knowledge and comfort? i cannot say i have comfort. i think _ knowledge and comfort? i cannot say i have comfort. i think it _ knowledge and comfort? i cannot say i have comfort. i think it was - knowledge and comfort? i cannot say i have comfort. i think it was quite i i have comfort. i think it was quite rightly— i have comfort. i think it was quite rightly pointed to opportunities to see the _ rightly pointed to opportunities to see the evidence of his prior behaviour. what i do now that is clearly _ behaviour. what i do now that is clearly there was a great desire to fill the _ clearly there was a great desire to fill the post, he was regarded as critically— fill the post, he was regarded as critically important. i think there had been — critically important. i think there had been external pressure on the bbc to— had been external pressure on the bbc to elevate that position and make _ bbc to elevate that position and make a — bbc to elevate that position and make a man of importance. i know that mr— make a man of importance. i know that mr harding had said the team we are working _ that mr harding had said the team we are working very hard to actually fill that — are working very hard to actually fill that position. i know there may

well have — fill that position. i know there may well have been some confirmation bias at— well have been some confirmation bias at work, which was to want to see him _ bias at work, which was to want to see him to — bias at work, which was to want to see him to be the kind of journalists that they could see him at his— journalists that they could see him at his best. — journalists that they could see him at his best, and probably to some extent— at his best, and probably to some extent overlooking and underestimating some of the ethical considerations he had demonstrated in his— considerations he had demonstrated in his prior— considerations he had demonstrated in his prior behaviour. ifi considerations he had demonstrated in his prior behaviour.— in his prior behaviour. ifi may, tim, in his prior behaviour. ifi may, tim. may _ in his prior behaviour. ifi may, tim. may i _ in his prior behaviour. ifi may, tim. may i ask— in his prior behaviour. ifi may, tim, may i ask you _ in his prior behaviour. ifi may, tim, may i ask you about - in his prior behaviour. ifi may, - tim, may i ask you about something completely different about children's content. i think everybody recognises that the bbc is up everybody recognises that the bbc is up against it with netflix and disney plus and youtube, possibly even more so with children's programming than with the rest. particularly with educational programmes, i'm interested to know what is the future of programmes. a programme which was meant to be a

five year programme, its principal sponsor no longer at the corporation. indeed, post—pandemic, where you see your responsibilites and focus changing if at all on general educational content and children's programming and the technicals with it? utterly critical for us at the bbc. our strategy now is doubling down on bite size. the numbers were bite—size, interestingly among all demographics, and pinning it on linear television during the pandemic was a fantastic success for us. you will see further advances with bite—size. overall cbeebies is a brand that we are under pressure from the likes of disney and others in the jeopardy is there, but the truth is what we need to do is make sure we are differentiated, focused utterly on british led ip and not

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