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tv   Dateline London  BBC News  June 20, 2021 11:30am-12:01pm BST

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new prime minister in more than a decade? to discuss that and more, i'm joined byjeffrey kofman, who hails from canada and anchored programmes there and in the united states. he's also served as a foreign correspondent in war and peace. russian—born arkady ostrvosky reports on the country of his birth, as well as eastern europe, for the economist. the bbc�*s chief international correspondent, lyse doucet, also canadian by birth, is with me here. iam i am still canadian. still canadian. ..by birth and nationality. we are glad to have you here. thank you for being with us. pasties in cornwall, pate in brussels, petite arvine by the glass on lake geneva. us presidentjoe biden has had a busy week, encompassing multi—national diplomacy with g7 and nato and a bi—lateral with vladimir putin. more than once, in the folksy style honed by five decades in america's national politics, mr biden declared, "america is back".
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it is a neat phrase, some might even say it is a glib phrase but america is back in what way and where? the question is an existential back or aspirational america is back? the answer is it is a bit of both. the fact is that donald trump took america out of international organisations and threatened to get out of nato and really affected the western alliance. whatjoe biden is saying is we are back in this alliance and we are back as a collective but that aspirational part of it is that donald trump and the american democracy has really been tested and the legitimacy of american democracy is not where it was a decade or two ago and so it becomes an aspirational america is back.
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america wants to be notjust economic but the moral leader of the world. joe biden is keen to restore that but there is a lot of work to do and domestically the us is not fair. nonetheless, america is back at the table. and that really is the take away from this past week. in european terms, what might america is back mean? i think this is the moment that everybody has been waiting for with some trepidation and huge anticipation after the psychodrama of trump and his relationship with vladimir putin. i thinkjust a sense of america returning to its former self, in terms of diplomacy and institutions, and in terms of predictable statements and policies and that in itself has brought some relief, and of course, for europe, russia has been one of the main worries, particularly
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since 2014 and the war in ukraine, turmoil in belarus. so this is a very important moment for europe to see american leadership because for many years, for the past few years a lot of europeans particularly in eastern europe were not sure where they stand. in terms of president putin, he stroked his ego with his invitation to meet one—on—one as if leaders of two superpowers meeting like the old days. but whenjoe biden says we will return what you do in kind unless you co—operate on things like cyber attacks, does president putin really have cause to take that seriously? president putin understands power and understands force. for the past few years he has been
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able to claim escalation dominance partly or largely in the knowledge that there would be no push back. they will be no push back after the reset of america's relationship with russia in 2008 by barack obama. there wil be no real pushback from donald trump. i think in his press conference, they had individual press conferences, it's quite interesting that joe biden tried to walk a very tight line here. on the one hand as you say not so much to massage his ego but to meet him face—to—face and try to mitigate whatever he can by not giving him an opportunity to have a joint press conference. but as i said, putin understands what power means and when somebody is prepared to push back and joe biden in very calm terms has made it incredibly clear that cyber attacks on american vital infrastructure will be retaliated. he gave him a list of things that...
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..a list of infrastructure sites that should not be touched. he delivered a thinly veiled threat saying how would you like if your pipeline was attacked? and he said all the things on ukraine i think which were important to state particularly following russia's build—up of troops on the ukrainian border, that the conflict should not go further in military terms. i think putin did take it seriously. i think for putin it's important to get a sense where he can concentrate on things at hand, which unfortunately means suppression of opposition, purges of the political system and getting himself back into power for 2024. how should allies measure his words against his actions?
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because the obvious place to talk about this is afghanistan where there was a consultation but not much of a consultation before america announced we are off. i think he's right. there was a palpable sigh of relief. you could hear it when president biden won the election and when he was inaugurated. they had been waiting for this day to meet face—to—face. they love the fact that america is back. he used the phrase stable and predictable. president biden said i want a stable and predictable relationship with president putin. europeans want a stable and predictable relationship with the united states as well. if only to use the phrase, if we could have been in the room where it happened. we are told that when the 13 nato partners sat down together there was "a consensus in the room" that biden had made the right decision. there was no good time to pull out the last of the nato—led forces but now is the time he had
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to pull them out. yes, there was, to use the british phrase, very concealed frustration. europeans had not been consulted and nato allies had not been consulted but there's that expression that we went in together we are going out together, and they are showing a public show of strength and unity. but there is clearly a lot of scrambling going on. where will they base us forces in the region? where will they train afghan national security forces? because they're all saying, our troops are leaving afghanistan, but we are not leaving afghanistan. we are going to help you and they still need to help as the taliban inch closer district by district back into power. so there seems to be a lot of scrambling going on when the weeks are counted before the last of the forces leave. when you hear a quote like this from the defence secretary, who says it possibly could take two years for international terrorist groups to regroup, regenerate inside afghanistan and pose a threat to the us.
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that almost sounds like speaking against the administration. we are told the defence secretary actually gave his advice to the president that they actually should leave some kind of residual force, a counterterrorism force, and he may have heard that from other senior commanders as well. biden thought very carefully about what he wants to do and he decided now is the time to go. what president biden said publicly was is 2021 is not 2001, the terrorism threat is different. we don't need to have a huge footprint in order to deal with it. it's many others like syria and iraq, many other places where there is a terrorism threat and he feels this is the optimistic view that they could deal with it. but there is clear concern and the secretary—general of nato has made that clear as well. publicly.
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one subject we should not avoid mentioning at this point is china because it was specifically singled out in both the g7 and the g7 communique at the end of the summit and also in the talks in nato. we are told thatjoe biden and xijinping have a relationship built—up from whenjoe biden was vice president. we are told they can have a dialogue with one another but is there much for china to fear from the other remaining superpower in the world? i think it's interesting that china is now so high on the agenda. if you look a few years ago it was all about russia but clearly the balance of power in the world has changed. i think it's not a question of if china has something to fear, china dismissed g7 as a clique of rich western countries and nothing to be afraid of but i think unity within the g7 and unity within nato is a really
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important power balance against china's power which is very effective around the world through economic and international aid. in biden saying he is back and leading that coalition, that very much is what he is after is a unified voice against china to speak out about human rights. to say, hey, if you want to be an international player that's fine but there is basic standards of civility on the international stage that you have to live up to around freedoms and suppression of people within your country, around human rights and forced labour and taiwan and around hong kong _ the only way that is going to be effectively heard is if china really is shamed into this and forced by a western coalition to do something. should we expect concrete responses and for china to back down immediately? of course not, that is
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not going to happen. these are incremental things but it's clear that a unified western voice will have much more impact. china has been very discreetly spending trillions of dollars in developing countries, about a hundred countries have received its road and bridge aid and infrastructure projects and highways in kenya and ports in brazil. these are countries starved for modern infrastructure, as the west has become more parsimonious about supporting developing countries, china has taken the opposite track and has effectively, through soft power and hard infrastructure, asserted itself massively on a global scale and one of the things that came out of this is a commitment to counter that with western spain. let's check back on that because that means they have to spend real dollars on places where they are not voters and that is always hard. thank you very much. it was an understandable error by benjamin netenyahu.
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just after the vote during sunday's special session of the knesset approved the new government formed without him, the now ex—prime minister returned to his seat. a parliamentary seat he had first occupied 25 years before — almost to the day, in fact — and where this oft—described israeli hawk had been entitled to perch for the last 12 years. entitled no longer. his seat was that designated for the leader of the opposition. he seemed not quite able to believe it. quite a lot of other people are not quite able to believe an israel without netanyahu in charge. it's an extraordinary situation and one that does not mean that the government that replaces him is going to be very long either? you start with america is back, he is biding his time and i don't think anyone can rule out bibi and he's in opposition and he's already using every podium he can to talk about this dangerous left—wing government that he is going to try to bring down.
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even by the standards of electoral politics and coalition politics of israel, this is a very rickety one. it goes from the far right, the nationalist parties to the secular left—wing and including an arab islamist party, you could not get more of a motley collection and what is the glue that holds them together? to get benjamin netanyahu out of power. and they did. but they are going to be tested. they've already been tested. again, israeli air strikes into gaza, baloons coming in from the gaza strip and there has been an ultranationalist march through the streets ofjerusalem, and they will be tested again. because benjamin netanyahu will continue to make it clear that he is waiting in the wings, perhaps that is something that will hold them together. i think everyone is already wondering when will the next election be? one thing that might
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is bennett and his force of personality because he's an interesting political character himself, isn't he? he is fascinating. this is a really interesting story to watch. he has to be a contortionist to survive. he has this coalition in which he only has seven seats and yet he heads this coalition as he pointed out of base push and the israel politics for the first time, far right from his party to centrist and the far left and the arab islamist party. for him to hold it together, it's going to be extraordinary. tech millionaite. a former aide to netanyahu and he has turned on his boss. he is against a two—state solution and said very clearly he does not support the traditional peace process that he had been watching lurch back and forth
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for the last number of decades. and yet he says he is a liberal on gay rights and wants to break the union's hold on the israeli economy and he picks and chooses what he believes in, but the important thing is in his initial speech he said we have to talk together and we have to work together. it would be very interesting to see whether he can hold that coalition and if he genuinely believes that. he had a very direct message in his opening address to russia and the other members of the security council and germany negotiating with iran at the moment, don't sign a nuclear deal. what clout do you think he has in that context, given this weekend we will see a change of president in iran? these are not real elections. these are pretty much staged.
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the idea of iran coming back into a deal is very important| and clearly something that _ president biden has thought through. the timing was very interesting of biden's iran diplomacy- because it came before g7 and it came before his meeting - with russia and with - russian president putin. i don't think... of course prime minister bennett has to say - this is one of the lines of attack from bibi. i look, iran should rejoice - now that we had this change | of power, being very sarcastic, | and mr bennett will not be able to stand up to biden. there are obviously huge interests on the us side and every- side to bring iran backl into a the nuclear deal.
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one country that actually might listen to israel more _ interestingly i think is russia. i not out of great love for israel, i though president putin seemed to ithink that israel is an example i in how to stand for your own and how to take critical action and etc. but because russia might not want a deal with the us, - for the us to have a deal with iran because that will bring oil - and gas back and they will give much lgreater leverage to president bidenl and the european powers over russia i because if iran gas and oil come i back that reduces russia's ability to blackmail europe. how much is russia interested in israel? because so many russians actually moved to israel after the collapse of the soviet union. there is a strong eastern european
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diaspora in modern israel. that's right. russian is the second most spoken language in israel. i there is a huge diaspora. russia is very interested in israel. it has an easy relationship. historically the soviet union| was very much against israel on the hamas side and leadership still meets hamas in moscow- but as somebody who likes to go after his opponents l abroad and hit out putin has this institution and former kgb that - runs the country now. has been very anti—semitic. putin himself is not and as i said i think he has admiration - for israel's audacity
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and ability to look after their own people and i think it's something | that he does very much admire and appreciate. | could this make any difference to the departure of netanyahu on the palestinian side? no. they simply do not agree at all on anything to do with the palestinian issue. they will try to work on the israeli domestic issues which are really urgent but bennett has been on the record saying he opposes a palestinian state. there are members of his coalition who are strong proponents, still, on the two—state solution, so that is not going to be an issue where we are expecting to see much progress but the palestinians will say there has not been any progress on the palestinian issue for as long as they can remember. just time, before we go, for each of you to mark our cards about a story you think hasn't received enough attention — arkady, first. i think this story that has not... it receives attention sporadically when it breaks into the news
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for unfortunate reasons is belarus. that idea that people are being tortured and suppressed this way and the plane has been hijacked as we know and the opponents have been snatched off the plane, and it's tragic it's happening in europe in the 21st century. this story has also much wider importance for the world. notjust for humanitarian reasons, although they should not be underestimated, but belarus, the small european country that has been in the midst of tragedies of the 20th century is really important today for how the relationship changes and shakes out between the west and russia. everyone is watching that as a potential theatre of action. russia considers it its backyard
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and the only reason lukashenko is in power, let's be honest, is because of russia's backing. it's all the more important for america and europe to impose sanctions now on lukashenko's regime which will serve as a message to russia. it's also a message too, it's a small country which including china, has been a traditional backer of lukashenko. a lot of things could be decided, a lot of decisions could be made, a lot of calculations made on the basis of what happens next in belarus. i think it's the country we must watch very carefully and we should lend whatever support we can give to very brave people who are in jail in terrible conditions. thank you. i am going to take a different approach. i think the story that did not receive enough attention, only in its author's eyes, and
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that's dominic cummings, revelations about health secretary matt hancock here in the uk and boris johnson and their utter mismanagement of the covid—i9 crisis early on. a year ago, johnson's own lack of confidence in matt hancock. in another era there might have been resignations about this stuff but it shows you how accountability of politicians has changed in the last number of years. like donald trump, it's acceptable that people just accept that borisjohnson is kind of chaotic and incompetent and now he says his own health secretary is and yet the story had no impact, itjust kind of dissipated and so we move on. we do move on indeed. this story about one last corner of syria i which is not controlled - by president assad's forces. according to the un people living in the northwest corner— are being kept alive by a lifeline which is a border crossing - from turkey and that cross—border operation is at risk and it - would expire july the 10th.
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president biden said he discussed it with president putin _ at their meeting but no decision was made and president putin. did not confirm that russia would not again veto that i last border crossing. there used to be four. it's now because of the vetol by china and russia it's down to one and so the fate of millions of people rests on that un - security council next month. just briefly on russia, continuing concern in russia about what's happening in syria? or has this conflict been parked? no, the conflict has not been parked, russia will use whatever cards it's got. the confrontation with the us has not ended. it's a bargaining chip in putin's relationship withjoe biden. what putin wants most of all, this meeting that we began with has been
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all about firming up lines and clarifying rules of engagement. for putin, the most important thing is thatjoe biden and america keeps out of russian politics which russia sees as interference of a conspiratorial mind and keeps it out of russian�*s backyard and in return for that, syria is a very important bargaining chip that russia thinks it can trade. it does not really care about assad, it does not care about rebuilding the state in syria. it's purely a transactional term. thank you all very much. thank you for your company. i hope you have a good night.
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part two of the weekend is a repeat performance of part one. yes, sunday has started on a cloudy note with the rain easing away off into the north sea. the cloud is fairly widespread at the moment, but as the rain eases into the north sea, we will tend to see it thinning and breaking with sunshine coming through in england and wales. sunny spells and scattered showers in scotland and northern ireland. a few brisk showers here accompanied by a keen north—westerly wind. the wind direction will be a feature, coming in off the north sea. exposed east coasts will feel disappointing, 15—16 as the high. if we get sunshine coming through in south—east england, we may see 22 degrees. 72 fahrenheit. much warmer than that for the wales match in rome.
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33 degrees quite likely. temperatures easing into the second half of the match. as the evening comes to a close. as we look at what to expect into monday morning, some rain pushing into the south and some of it turning quite heavy. this are of low pressure will linger across southern fringes of england through much of the day. the heaviest of the rain likely in north wales and the low countries. but you can see the leading edge interacting so anywhere south of the m4 corridor we could see rain. some heavy at times. cloudy in england and wales. the best chance of sunshine in scotland and northern ireland, but the wind direction making the temperatures disappointing. we are looking at a high perhaps only sitting in the mid to high teens. that means clearer skies to the north could allow temperatures
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to fall away quite sharply in sheltered rural areas. close to freezing in places. widely seeing temperatures into single figures. feeling coolish on tuesday and on tuesday, cloud and rain gathering into the far north—west later and that weather front bringing rain into the north—west through the week. gradually, low pressure moving to southern england with more rain here later.
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this is bbc news — with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. more than half a million people in brazil have now died from coronavirus. experts warn the outbreak could worsen. those in england who are double jabbed, and come into contact with covid, could be spared ten days of self isolation. i think that in the future, i'm not sure when, i can imagine a situation where we will have alternatives to isolation for people who have had two doses of vaccine. a surge in coronavirus vaccination bookings in the uk, as 18—20 year olds sign up for theirjab in huge numbers. keep ourfamilies safe, just be able to get back out there. open up possibilities for what you can do, probably when travel opens
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and things it will probably be easier if you have been vaccinated, things like that.

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