still missing. at least 120 people have died and hundreds more are unaccounted for after some of the worst flooding in western europe in decades. record rainfall caused rivers to burst their banks. most of those killed were in germany. the uk has recorded more than 50,000 new coronavirus cases in a single day, for the first time since january. it comes days before the majority of covid restrictions in england are due to be lifted. in a speech to the nation the south african president, cyril ramaphosa, has said the violent unrest that's swept the country was clearly planned and instigated. mr ramaphosa said the effects of the violence would last for months to come. now on bbc news, the media show.

hello. after the torrent of racial abuse that england's footballers suffered after that penalty shoot—out, you might wonder why they'd want to be on social media at all. do the benefits of direct access to the fans and being able to tell their own unedited story outweigh the really horrifying negatives? and what about the platforms themselves? why can't they quash the abuse more effectively? it is an example of much broader issues around the power and accountability of social media giants, and that is the subject a behind—the—scenes book written by two new york times journalists about facebook. so, let me introduce you to our guests. firstly to new york and to sheera frenkel. sheera, you've called your book the ugly truth, which means, i guess, you're not

secretary of the mark zuckerberg fan club. i wonder what facebook makes of you. have they been in touch with you directly about what they think of the book? in the weeks leading up to the publication of the book, facebook was in touch with us multiple times a day. there were days where it was dozens of times a day. they made it very clear that they objected to many things in the book, which was interesting because we had gone through a four—month fact checking process with them in which we had gone over every detail and every scene and really given every chance to respond. but it was only when the book was actually printed and about to hit the shelves, they seemed to sort of realise that this was going to be hitting the public soon. and then, it was going to, i think, raise a lot of concerns about the way the company has been run. we'll hear more about that later. cecilia kang, the cover of your book, actually, has a list of apologies from facebook, things like, "we never meant to upset you, we need to do better." what is it they're apologising for? they're apologising for a whole

history of mistakes and scandals and promises to do better. we thought the real power of putting those quotes in the back of the book, "i'm sorry, i'm sorry, i'm sorry," from sheryl sandberg and mark zuckerberg, really actually gave readers a sense of what would be in the book, which is a very powerful pattern of mistake, apology, promises to do better, wash, rinse and repeat — that cycle over and over again. that, really, is one of the most powerful things that we took away from our reporting, that surprised us, which was this kind of pattern for this very powerful company. great, well, we'll hear more about that later on. also with us today are three sports journalists. henry winter is chief football writer for the times. henry, england player tyrone mings used social media to criticise the home secretary, priti patel. he accused her of stoking the fire of racism. and so, keir starmer quoted that social media post in prime minister's questions. i wonder if that means that

you find that you are fighting to keep politicaljournalists off your turf at the moment. well, not really because i- think if you look at the cover, it's certainly- from the print media. we've been echoing the - sentiments of the supporters and the players in particular. you mentioned tyrone mings and the way he put away - priti patel with his veryl succinct message to her when she had a go earlier in the tournament about. players' gesture politics by taking a knee. - i think what you saw| with the racist abuse of the three black players i who missed penalties chose who missed penalties shows why players will take a knee. and also, particularly- with tyrone mings, and i've interviewed him on this subject — he's a very eloquent, - intelligent individual — i and it was tyrone mings who won his england i debut in bulgaria who who on his england debut inl bulgaria was racially abused. and his family had travelled . out to see their son make this

debut, and he was racially abused by a minimum - of 50 bulgarians. so, he's very aware of the i races issues in this country racist issues in this country and in other countries far more than many politicians. - well, mayowa quadri is a freelance football writer and a broadcaster. he's also editorial officer at versus, which describes itself as a platform championing the future of football. mayowa, i know you don't have the backing of a major newspapers like the times, for example, so i imagine that you don't get the same access to top players, or do you? and i wonder how helpful footballers�* social media profiles are to you. we do to a certain extent. i think ultimately, that has come across social media. i feel that a lot more footballers are going to be in control of the narrative around themselves and tell authentic stories. i mean, print does an amazing job, but of course, broadcasters traditionally are focused on the result in the matter of facts of the game, whereas new media can focus on societal issues, personal habits and things that

footballers really want to talk about. for instance, someone like rashford, jaden sancho, these young footballers who are really in touch with their culture and where they come from. versus enables them to speak about that. well, joey d'urso is investigations writer for the atlantic, covering football. sorry — athletic, rather — not the atlantic. and joey, you've been investigating social media and football for quite a long time now. 0bviously, online racism towards sportspeople isn't new, but can you give us an idea of the scale of the abusive social media messages and comments that were aimed at england's footballers this week? yeah, so it'sjust everywhere and it's really depressing and it's really dark. soon as those three black players missed their penalties on sunday night, they were inundated with the most horrendous kind of abuse, things like monkey emojis. the kind of ways that people get around these filters because they know if they use certain slur words that

the social media filters will pick them out, maybe emojis are harder. people do things like direct messages on instagram, which are harder to filter than the comment feed. i did a story a few months ago about fantasy premier league, a game where you pick your favourite players and you win points and stuff, and we found thousands of accounts with nazi names and things like that, the most depraved stuff. it'sjust everywhere, and every time the sites say, "we're going to do more," it's never quite enough and they never... it continues. there's something quite dark in human nature that makes people want to do that after these players, who were heroes, who were brave, who played brilliantly for their country — someone like saka who was fantastic in his tournament — to shout at him with racial abuse isjust awful. what social media sites do is never quite enough. sheera and cecilia will probably be able to speak more to this, but in my eyes, what they need to do is spend more money on human moderators because the automatic algorithms are not working. they need to put their hands in their extremely deep

pockets and pay more people to do better at this, but that's obviously a very expensive solution. mayowa quadri, is this something that you were actually expecting when events unfolded on sunday night? 100%. at first unfolded on sunday night? 10096. at first dawned _ unfolded on sunday night? 10096. at first dawned on _ unfolded on sunday night? 10096. at first dawned on me _ unfolded on sunday night? 10096. at first dawned on me probably i at first dawned on me probably before this. ijust at first dawned on me probably before this. i just thought to myself, it could go absolutely sour. against liverpool very early on, and it's something that people just come to expect. i think the situation in particular was even harder because it's the first major final for england. because it's the first major finalfor england. you've because it's the first major final for england. you've got loads of people out going to watch the game because you've not have this moment before. i personally had to message friends after the first penalty saying leave now, because i don't know what's going to

happen. we saw reports of some of the incidents happening across the country, which were just inexcusable. it's completely wrong. so, that feeling, it's not a new feeling, it's not a new feeling, but ultimately for black players to fall short of what they want to achieve. they're going to be racially abuse, and it makes me almost laughed because imagine if all of those penalties had gone in, the same people who use them would be celebrating and we would've never known. not that we would've never known, but it would've been completely hidden in the split moment. you can see the true reality stuff like cecilia, your dayjob is tech and regulation correspondent for the new york times. i 'ust wondered. �* for the new york times. i 'ust wondered, the i for the new york times. i 'ust wondered, the prime �* for the new york times. i just wondered, the prime minister said that fans who post race of utes will be banned from matches, but i wonder, is that going to be enough? will there not be a better option to prevent racial abuse being

posted? i wonder if it isn't that quite simple. it seems to me that you could stop these platforms posting this kind of abuse because footballers are verified, and if the message has got their name in it, it wouldn't get through. what's stopping facebook and the rest of them doing that? is that their principles around free speech, or have i oversimplified the technicalities of moderation? definitely, there's a very strong _ definitely, there's a very strong free speech. there's also — strong free speech. there's also a — strong free speech. there's also a very convenient event for facebook's business model. we cover— for facebook's business model. we cover that in our book. a lot of— we cover that in our book. a lot of the _ we cover that in our book. a lot of the decisions were focused on growth. and growth of the — focused on growth. and growth of the business and growth of revenues— of the business and growth of revenues and profits. as one of your— revenues and profits. as one of your guest— revenues and profits. as one of your guest said, we should not have _ your guest said, we should not have been_ your guest said, we should not have been surprised to see the racial_ have been surprised to see the racial epithets that were thrown _ racial epithets that were thrown out during the game. but time _ thrown out during the game. but time and — thrown out during the game. but time and time again, what facebook has shown is that they don't _ facebook has shown is that they don't look— facebook has shown is that they don't look at, not even just around _ don't look at, not even just around the corner, but what's

in front— around the corner, but what's in front of— around the corner, but what's in front of them. they are focused _ in front of them. they are focused on a different metric. free — focused on a different metric. free feature is absolutely an important thing —— free speech. i think— important thing —— free speech. i think governments around the world — i think governments around the world i— i think governments around the world. i think it's a way that facebook— world. i think it's a way that facebook goes about moderating their content, it's also filled with— their content, it's also filled with holes. there's a lot of problems on that. they rely heavily— problems on that. they rely heavily on reports. if you have 3 billion — heavily on reports. if you have 3 billion users around the world, _ 3 billion users around the world, and even if you do have tens _ world, and even if you do have tens of— world, and even if you do have tens of thousands of human moderators and ai, you will never— moderators and ai, you will never be _ moderators and ai, you will never be able to suppress the amount— never be able to suppress the amount of hate speech and misinformation and harm for confident— misinformation and harm for confident that services —— harmful— confident that services —— harmful content. it's always after—the—fact. the racial epithets _ after—the—fact. the racial epithets were already said and they were already amplified, which — they were already amplified, which is _ they were already amplified, which is important by facebook. there's— which is important by facebook. there's a — which is important by facebook. there's a real problem, even the structure and approach. i 'ust

the structure and approach. i just wanted to add one thing to what you said, which is as one of your previous guests was talking, ifound myself nodding and shaking my head. this tactic of using emojis and using emoticons as a way of abating hate speech has been used for years. we have an entire chapter of our book about myanmar, and how facebook was told over and over what was happening with hate speech. but just by using little emojis and gifts, people are able to evade some of that censorship that facebook said it would impose to prevent real—world violence in the streets there. despite knowing that this is happening, despite knowing these emojis and whatnot are invented on the fly each time to try and perpetuate hate speech, facebook cannot seem to get a handle on it. i facebook cannot seem to get a handle on it.— handle on it. i 'ust have a statement _ handle on it. ijust have a statement here _ handle on it. ijust have a statement here from - handle on it. ijust have a - statement here from facebook, who own instagram. they told us no one should have to experience races abuse anywhere, and they don't want

to own instagram. they quickly removed comments on sunday and will continue to take action against those who break their rules. mayowa quadri, i wanted to ask you why a footballer would want to be on social media. can you explain the upside for them?— media. can you explain the upside for them? there are man . upside for them? there are many- you _ upside for them? there are many. you don't _ upside for them? there are many. you don't have - upside for them? there are many. you don't have to i upside for them? there are i many. you don't have to look any further than marcus rashford. he managed to galvanise the nation that there was a national issue in the country. he was able to speak to his fans via social media. you can look at other footballers who enable, jordan henderson, in terms of everything he speaks about. he has been able to do that because he can use his social media. there's been times where he wasn't playing because he's injured. he's used as instagram for that publicity. we had a

broca's where —— broadcast where the narrative was based on what was cut out. whereas with social media, you can control that. you can look at christianjohn for control that. you can look at christian john for example. he's got millions and millions and millions of followers. but his value is much more than just him playing, so that brings him personal wealth. there are so many different reasons why you would want to have social media presence. we've seen situations where because of what we're talking about, footballers have gone away from social media because they thought to themselves, why would i be so open and accessible if i'm going to be abuse? untilsomething is accessible if i'm going to be abuse? until something is done about this platform, he won't be on there. there are benefits, but there is a negative side. this negative side that keeps popping up, it just confuses me because it's almost sophia how could you see

there's not anything that can be done —— it's almost to say. it really confuses me. we see all the time at the moment, and i'm not trying to compare the two situations, but they put things into place to make sure they can instantly react to stuff. why is that not the case for other situations? especially when, and this is the most recent situation, but the most recent situation, but the monkey emojis, it's almost as if they've completely forgotten. imagine how any black person reading that feels. that's the element that's not spoken in out enough. that's not spoken in out enough-— that's not spoken in out enough.- the . that's not spoken in out| enough.- the bill that's not spoken in out - enough.- the bill came in enough. henry? the bill came in in march- _ enough. henry? the bill came in in march. certainly, _ enough. henry? the bill came in in march. certainly, the - in march. certainly, the draught _ in march. certainly, the draught of— in march. certainly, the draught of it. _ in march. certainly, the draught of it. it's - in march. certainly, the draught of it. it's not i in march. certainly, the - draught of it. it's not simply about— draught of it. it's not simply about online _ draught of it. it's not simply about online abuse, - draught of it. it's not simply about online abuse, there . draught of it. it's not simply. about online abuse, there are other— about online abuse, there are other elements. _ about online abuse, there are other elements. 0ne - about online abuse, there are other elements. one of- about online abuse, there are other elements. one of the l about online abuse, there are i other elements. one of the key other elements. 0ne of the key things— other elements. one of the key things which _ other elements. one of the key things which comes _ other elements. one of the key things which comes onto - other elements. one of the key things which comes onto the i things which comes onto the statute — things which comes onto the statute books, _ things which comes onto the statute books, the _ things which comes onto the i statute books, the government can find — statute books, the government can find that _ statute books, the government can find that the _ statute books, the government can find that the tech _ statute books, the government

can find that the tech giant, - can find that the tech giant, 10% — can find that the tech giant, 10% of— can find that the tech giant, 10% of their— can find that the tech giant, 10% of their annual- can find that the tech giant, 10% of their annual blur- can find that the tech giant, j 10% of their annual blur and over— 10% of their annual blur and over and _ 10% of their annual blur and over and they— 10% of their annual blur and over and they have - 10% of their annual blur and over and they have been - over and they have been indicated _ over and they have been indicated —— _ over and they have been indicated —— an- over and they have been indicated —— an annual. indicated —— an annual turnover _ indicated —— an annual turnover. could - indicated —— an annual turnover. could be - indicated —— an annual- turnover. could be charged for allowing — turnover. could be charged for allowing hate _ turnover. could be charged for allowing hate speech - turnover. could be charged for allowing hate speech on - turnover. could be charged for allowing hate speech on theirl allowing hate speech on their platforms _ allowing hate speech on their platforms. there's _ allowing hate speech on their platforms. there's such - allowing hate speech on their platforms. there's such an i platforms. there's such an extra — platforms. there's such an extra debate _ platforms. there's such an extra debate here - platforms. there's such an extra debate here about i platforms. there's such an . extra debate here about how whether— extra debate here about how whether there _ extra debate here about how whether there are _ extra debate here about how whether there are platformsl extra debate here about how. whether there are platforms or publishers _ whether there are platforms or publishers if— whether there are platforms or publishers. if they— whether there are platforms or publishers. if they are - whether there are platforms or publishers. if they are deemedj publishers. if they are deemed as publishers, _ publishers. if they are deemed as publishers, they— publishers. if they are deemed as publishers, they should - as publishers, they should absolutely _ as publishers, they should absolutely be _ as publishers, they should absolutely be charged. - as publishers, they should absolutely be charged. if i absolutely be charged. if someone _ absolutely be charged. if someone says _ absolutely be charged. if someone says what - absolutely be charged. if - someone says what marchioness rashford — someone says what marchioness rashford and _ someone says what marchioness rashford and jane _ someone says what marchioness rashford and jane jen _ someone says what marchioness rashford and jane jen sancho i rashford and jane jen sancho have — rashford and jane jen sancho have said. _ rashford and jane jen sancho have said, they— rashford and jane jen sancho have said, they would - rashford and jane jen sancho have said, they would be - rashford and jane jen sancho have said, they would be put| rashford and jane jen sanchoi have said, they would be put it away— have said, they would be put it away -- — have said, they would be put it away -- marcus— have said, they would be put it away —— marcus rashford - have said, they would be put it away —— marcus rashford and i away —— marcus rashford and jaden— away —— marcus rashford and jaden sancho _ away —— marcus rashford and jaden sancho. just _ away —— marcus rashford and jaden sancho. just back- away —— marcus rashford and jaden sancho. just back to i away —— marcus rashford andi jaden sancho. just back to the point — jaden sancho. just back to the point about— jaden sancho. just back to the point about the _ jaden sancho. just back to the point about the other - jaden sancho. just back to the point about the other things . point about the other things that— point about the other things that get— point about the other things that get set— point about the other things that get set on _ point about the other things that get set on social - point about the other thingsl that get set on social media, which — that get set on social media, which the _ that get set on social media, which the tech _ that get set on social media, which the tech giants - that get set on social media, which the tech giants are - that get set on social media, l which the tech giants are very quick— which the tech giants are very quick and _ which the tech giants are very quick and taking _ which the tech giants are very quick and taking down. - which the tech giants are very quick and taking down. if- which the tech giants are very quick and taking down. if a i quick and taking down. if a football— quick and taking down. if a football fan _ quick and taking down. if a football fan had _ quick and taking down. if a football fan had tweeted . quick and taking down. if a football fan had tweeted a| football fan had tweeted a picture _ football fan had tweeted a picture of— football fan had tweeted a picture of the _ football fan had tweeted a picture of the players, - football fan had tweeted a . picture of the players, taken off the — picture of the players, taken off the television _ picture of the players, taken off the television or - picture of the players, taken off the television or on - picture of the players, taken off the television or on his . off the television or on his iphone. _ off the television or on his iphone, and _ off the television or on his iphone, and posted - off the television or on his iphone, and posted on - off the television or on his . iphone, and posted on social media, — iphone, and posted on social media, twitter— iphone, and posted on social media, twitter would've - iphone, and posted on social. media, twitter would've taken media, twitter would've ta ken it down — media, twitter would've taken it down within _ media, twitter would've taken it down within seconds. - media, twitter would've taken it down within seconds. so, i it down within seconds. so, this—

it down within seconds. so, this feeling _ it down within seconds. so, this feeling that... - it down within seconds. so, this feeling that... there i it down within seconds. so, this feeling that... there is| it down within seconds. so, i this feeling that... there is a feeling — this feeling that... there is a feeling particularly— this feeling that... there is a feeling particularly amongst i feeling particularly amongst the players _ feeling particularly amongst the players that _ feeling particularly amongst the players that they - feeling particularly amongst the players that they are - feeling particularly amongst| the players that they are not acting — the players that they are not acting quickly— the players that they are not acting quickly enough. - the players that they are not acting quickly enough. but i the players that they are not acting quickly enough. but they also use social _ acting quickly enough. but they also use social media _ acting quickly enough. but they also use social media and - acting quickly enough. but they also use social media and they| also use social media and they do see there's an upside to it. ijust think a do see there's an upside to it. i just think a lot of newspapers wouldn't, for example, have written an awful lot about football or charity, whereas now we can see they can directly use social media to talk about that.— talk about that. after the match, talk about that. after the match. l _ talk about that. after the match, i got _ talk about that. after the match, i got messages . talk about that. after the i match, i got messages from players _ match, i got messages from players that _ match, i got messages from players that were _ match, i got messages from players that were slightly. players that were slightly worried _ players that were slightly worried about _ players that were slightly worried about the - players that were slightly. worried about the narrative playing _ worried about the narrative playing out _ worried about the narrative playing out so, _ worried about the narrative playing out. so, i- worried about the narrative playing out. so, i don't - worried about the narrative i playing out. so, i don't think the two _ playing out. so, i don't think the two sides _ playing out. so, i don't think the two sides that _ playing out. so, i don't think the two sides that i - playing out. so, i don't think the two sides that i work - playing out. so, i don't think the two sides that i work in i the two sides that i work in and — the two sides that i work in and the _ the two sides that i work in and the players _ the two sides that i work in and the players don't - the two sides that i work in and the players don't work| and the players don't work together— and the players don't work together on— and the players don't work together on these. - and the players don't work together on these.- and the players don't work together on these. henry, would -la ers together on these. henry, would players actually _ together on these. henry, would players actually ask _ together on these. henry, would players actually ask you, - together on these. henry, would players actually ask you, how - players actually ask you, how do you think this tweet will play out? should i say something on social media about that? would you advise them like that? ., .,

like that? no, iwould suggest--- _ like that? no, iwould suggest... because i like that? no, i would i suggest... because they like that? no, i would - suggest... because they just suggest... because theyjust say how— suggest... because theyjust say how will— suggest... because theyjust say how will this _ suggest... because theyjust say how will this play - suggest... because theyjust say how will this play out? i say how will this play out? 0hviously. _ say how will this play out? obviously, very— say how will this play out? obviously, very much - say how will this play out? i obviously, very much football related. — obviously, very much football related. and _ obviously, very much football related, and they _ obviously, very much football related, and they will - related, and they will absolutely _ related, and they will absolutely do - related, and they will absolutely do that. l related, and they will i absolutely do that. but related, and they will - absolutely do that. but they also — absolutely do that. but they also see _ absolutely do that. but they also see the _ absolutely do that. but they also see the flip _ absolutely do that. but they also see the flip side, - absolutely do that. but they also see the flip side, the i also see the flip side, the positive _ also see the flip side, the positive side, _ also see the flip side, the positive side, of- also see the flip side, the positive side, of social. also see the flip side, the . positive side, of social media for them _ positive side, of social media for them in _ positive side, of social media forthem in their— positive side, of social media for them in their campaign. i positive side, of social media . forthem in their campaign. but also, _ forthem in their campaign. but also, lets— forthem in their campaign. but also, lets not— forthem in their campaign. but also, let's not forget _ also, let's not forget commercial. - also, let's not forget commercial. when i also, let's not forgetl commercial. when he also, let's not forget - commercial. when he did his deal— commercial. when he did his deal from _ commercial. when he did his deal from arsenal, _ commercial. when he did his deal from arsenal, there - commercial. when he did his. deal from arsenal, there were certain— deal from arsenal, there were certain clauses— deal from arsenal, there were certain clauses in— deal from arsenal, there were certain clauses in his - deal from arsenal, there were certain clauses in his deal- certain clauses in his deal where _ certain clauses in his deal where he _ certain clauses in his deal where he was _ certain clauses in his deal where he was able - certain clauses in his deal where he was able to - certain clauses in his deal- where he was able to retweet. i don't _ where he was able to retweet. i don't know _ where he was able to retweet. i don't know the _ where he was able to retweet. i don't know the exact _ where he was able to retweet. i don't know the exact number, i don't know the exact number, but i _ don't know the exact number, but i think— don't know the exact number, but i think it's _ don't know the exact number, but i think it's about _ don't know the exact number, but i think it's about two - don't know the exact number, but i think it's about two a - but i think it's about two a week _ but i think it's about two a week so. _ but i think it's about two a week. so, huge _ but i think it's about two a i week. so, huge commercial interest— week. so, huge commercial interest for— week. so, huge commercial interest for them. - week. so, huge commercial interest for them. i’m“- week. so, huge commercial interest for them.— interest for them. i'm 'ust interested in i interest for them. i'm 'ust interested in that. i interest for them. i'm just interested in that. you've| interested in that. you've written tweets for players, so are they often written by journalists.— are they often written by “ournalists. . , , ., journalists. that is very rare and that's — journalists. that is very rare and that's maybe _ journalists. that is very rare and that's maybe when - journalists. that is very rare and that's maybe when one|

journalists. that is very rare i and that's maybe when one of them — and that's maybe when one of them is — and that's maybe when one of them is individual. _ and that's maybe when one of them is individual. i— and that's maybe when one of them is individual. i had - and that's maybe when one of them is individual. i had one i them is individual. i had one in the — them is individual. i had one in the last— them is individual. i had one in the last 24 _ them is individual. i had one in the last 24 hours. - them is individual. i had one in the last 24 hours. it's - them is individual. i had one in the last 24 hours. it's not| in the last 24 hours. it's not that— in the last 24 hours. it's not that common, _ in the last 24 hours. it's not that common, but - in the last 24 hours. it's not that common, but it- in the last 24 hours. it's not that common, but it makesl that common, but it makes sense _ that common, but it makes sense the _ that common, but it makes sense. the world _ that common, but it makes sense. the world we - that common, but it makes sense. the world we live i that common, but it makesl sense. the world we live in, there's— sense. the world we live in, there's nothing _ sense. the world we live in, there's nothing between- sense. the world we live in, | there's nothing between you pressing _ there's nothing between you pressing send _ there's nothing between you pressing send on— there's nothing between you pressing send on your- there's nothing between you i pressing send on your iphone and my— pressing send on your iphone and my back— pressing send on your iphone and my back page. _ pressing send on your iphone and my back page. because i pressing send on your iphone i and my back page. because we take _ and my back page. because we take the — and my back page. because we take the news _ and my back page. because we take the news quite _ and my back page. because we take the news quite rightly, - take the news quite rightly, and — take the news quite rightly, and because _ take the news quite rightly, and because there's - take the news quite rightly, and because there's so - take the news quite rightly, i and because there's so much support— and because there's so much support for— and because there's so much support for the _ and because there's so much support for the players,. - and because there's so much support for the players,. we| support for the players,. we know — support for the players,. we know that _ support for the players,. we know that these _ support for the players,. we know that these players - support for the players,. we know that these players are i know that these players are going — know that these players are going to _ know that these players are going to walk— know that these players are going to walk off _ know that these players are going to walk off the - know that these players are going to walk off the pitch i going to walk off the pitch because _ going to walk off the pitch because they're _ going to walk off the pitch because they're disgusted going to walk off the pitch - because they're disgusted with the racist — because they're disgusted with the racist abuse. _ because they're disgusted with the racist abuse. it's _ because they're disgusted with the racist abuse. it's been- the racist abuse. it's been going _ the racist abuse. it's been going on— the racist abuse. it's been going on for— the racist abuse. it's been going on for 30 _ the racist abuse. it's been going on for 30 or- the racist abuse. it's been going on for 30 or 40 - the racist abuse. it's been. going on for 30 or 40 years in football _ going on for 30 or 40 years in football l— going on for 30 or 40 years in football. ~ �* , going on for 30 or 40 years in football. ,, �* , ., football. i think it's an excellent _ football. i think it's an excellent point - football. i think it's an l excellent point because football. i think it's an . excellent point because it brings up on this idea that we tap into, that there is a contradiction in social media.

it can be used as a force for good, but at the same time, it can spread abuse and disinformation. sheera frenkel and cecilia kang have been investigating for years and they not written about it. cecilia, i was fascinated by the access you must have had. you said in the book that you spoke to 400 of them. you write about how so many of them have nondisclosure agreements, and we know about that. you said some of them were putting their careers at risk. yet you've managed to give us a ringside seat on a lot of the biggest crises in facebook over the last five years. there have been quite a few. why did people speak to you? i wonder if you're a journalist and you

pick up the phone and say hello, do you want to chat, they would run a mile. how did you do it? i they would run a mile. how did you do it?— you do it? i think a lot want to sea change. _ you do it? i think a lot want to sea change. they're - you do it? i think a lot want to sea change. they're not| to sea change. they're not unhappy— to sea change. they're not unhappy with the company per se, but — unhappy with the company per se, but they're unhappy with the decisions made by the top leaders. — the decisions made by the top leaders, mark zuckerberg and... a lot _ leaders, mark zuckerberg and... a lot of— leaders, mark zuckerberg and... a lot of people weren't willing to talk— a lot of people weren't willing to talk to us. we had to dig and — to talk to us. we had to dig and dig _ to talk to us. we had to dig and dig and dig, many of us —— many— and dig and dig, many of us —— manyof— and dig and dig, many of us —— many of them felt compelled to talk to— many of them felt compelled to talk to us, especially last year. _ talk to us, especially last year, when there is so much to mould — year, when there is so much to mould. they were seeing president trump test the site. notjust— president trump test the site. notjust in policies, but in at six — notjust in policies, but in at six they— notjust in policies, but in at six. they want to see change. facebook— six. they want to see change. facebook has this narrative. a lot of— facebook has this narrative. a lot of the _ facebook has this narrative. a lot of the people who spoke to

us were — lot of the people who spoke to us were disgruntled or mad. it's us were disgruntled or mad. it's not _ us were disgruntled or mad. it's not true. many of the people _ it's not true. many of the people are there still. the majority _ people are there still. the majority of the people are still— majority of the people are still there and want to see change~ _ still there and want to see change. they're speaking to us not because they're angry or they— not because they're angry or they feel— not because they're angry or they feel like they've been demoted or anything. they feel like they've been demoted oranything. it's demoted or anything. it's because _ demoted oranything. it's because they feel like that's, by speaking to us, it's the only— by speaking to us, it's the only way— by speaking to us, it's the only way the curtain can be pulled _ only way the curtain can be pulled back behind a company that is— pulled back behind a company that is so— pulled back behind a company that is so incredibly powerful. that — that is so incredibly powerful. that affects forts fans around the world, as well as governments and so many countries, 3.4 billion across all of— countries, 3.4 billion across all of its _ countries, 3.4 billion across all of its apps. they want to make — all of its apps. they want to make sure that this tool is used — make sure that this tool is used in _ make sure that this tool is used in a _ make sure that this tool is used in a way that's healthy and — used in a way that's healthy and safe _ used in a way that's healthy and safe for people around the world — and safe for people around the world in— and safe for people around the

world in democracy.— world in democracy. sheera frenkel. — world in democracy. sheera frenkel. l — world in democracy. sheera frenkel, ijust _ world in democracy. sheera frenkel, i just want - world in democracy. sheera frenkel, i just want to - world in democracy. sheera frenkel, i just want to pick| world in democracy. sheera l frenkel, i just want to pick up on one of your book's examples. you talk about the storming of the capitol. talk about what facebook knew that day? people started to form _ facebook knew that day? people started to form facebook - facebook knew that day? people started to form facebook groups| started to form facebook groups called stop the steal where they were telling americans the election had been stolen through donald trump. facebook watch from their offices as those groups... so they knew that this momentum had real power, and in the months leading up to january the 6th, they watched as that movement became more and more extreme. the day before the riots happen, journalist including myself send them e—mails with photographs of assault rifles posted to facebook pages, and sent asking if they would take those group down. what is your plan here? that's partly what

we wanted to document, what was their plan? i think people reading the book will be shocked to find there was no plan. shocked to find there was no lan. ., plan. you right in the book that executives _ plan. you right in the book that executives considered getting mark zuckerberg to get in touch with donald trump, but they didn't. why not? thea;r in touch with donald trump, but they didn't. why not? they were worried it would _ they didn't. why not? they were worried it would leak _ they didn't. why not? they were worried it would leak to - they didn't. why not? they were worried it would leak to the - worried it would leak to the press. many things did in 2020, as cecilia said. people were unhappy with the leadership decisions, and they felt if mark zuckerberg called trump, he would seem complicit. rather than have that happen, they advocated against it. taste than have that happen, they advocated against it.- advocated against it. we do have a quick _ advocated against it. we do have a quick facebook - advocated against it. we do - have a quick facebook spokesman that set our team are vigilant in the content that violated our policies leading up to january the 6th. we were prepared for this and to be more aggressive than any other company. they have took down tens of thousands of qanon pages, groups and accounts from

their app. pages, groups and accounts from theirapp. cecilia, pages, groups and accounts from their app. cecilia, after the riots, president trump was banned by facebook, but how did the company come to that decision?— the company come to that decision? ~ ., , ., ., decision? well, there was a lot of internal _ decision? well, there was a lot of internal debate _ decision? well, there was a lot of internal debate on _ decision? well, there was a lot of internal debate on what - decision? well, there was a lot of internal debate on what to i of internal debate on what to do with— of internal debate on what to do with president trump. of course, _ do with president trump. of course, this was after a whole four— course, this was after a whole four years _ course, this was after a whole four years of trump testing the site _ four years of trump testing the site they— four years of trump testing the site. they finally decided to not necessarily, not actually permanently ban him, but give him essentially the timeout, a two week— him essentially the timeout, a two week you cannot be on the site _ two week you cannot be on the site let's _ two week you cannot be on the site. let's take this final decision— site. let's take this final decision to what they created, which — decision to what they created, which is — decision to what they created, which is a _ decision to what they created, which is a facebook oversight. they— which is a facebook oversight. they describe it as a supreme court — they describe it as a supreme court body that makes decisions on content moderation. and by doing _ on content moderation. and by doing that, they were essentially kicking the can down _ essentially kicking the can down the road. they were absolving themselves of having to make — absolving themselves of having to make a really tough political decision. after that, two months later, the oversight

board _ two months later, the oversight board picked that decision back to facebook, and it was very smart— to facebook, and it was very smart because they said you can't — smart because they said you can't possibly expect us to make _ can't possibly expect us to make a _ can't possibly expect us to make a final call on president trump — make a final call on president trump when you don't even have policies — trump when you don't even have policies put in place. you don't _ policies put in place. you don't have actual laws, internal _ don't have actual laws, internal rules, and how you deal— internal rules, and how you deal with— internal rules, and how you deal with figures like trump. figure — deal with figures like trump. figure that out first and make your— figure that out first and make your decision, is what they said — your decision, is what they said. �* , p, p said. there's a recurring theme- _ said. there's a recurring theme. steve _ said. there's a recurring theme. steve hoffman i said. there's a recurring i theme. steve hoffman was said. there's a recurring - theme. steve hoffman was clear he didn't want to make editorial decisions himself. it seems you are saying facebook has a similar policy. if tech giants don't want to do this, who should? edi giants don't want to do this, who should?— who should? of course tech aiants who should? of course tech giants don't _ who should? of course tech giants don't want _ who should? of course tech giants don't want to - who should? of course tech giants don't want to do - who should? of course tech giants don't want to do it. i who should? of course tech j giants don't want to do it. it is not good business for them to make editorial decisions. it's much easier to take an approach that platforms should be regulated, government should come up with regulation, because they know that most governments across the world are not very sophisticated and how they think about regulation. if a government creates a rule that facebook

can have specific types of speech on the platform, not gives facebook a line in the sand that it has to adhere to. one thing that i was struck by earlier in facebook�*s statements was how similar it was to what we catalogue on the back of the book, the apologies facebook has been making for over a decade. it is still making and in some places, the language is almost identical. there's so much more we could talk about, but i'm afraid that's it for today. thank you very much to all my guess. sheera frenkel and cecilia kang, tojoey d'urso and 21 and two henry winter. i'll be back same time next week. goodbye.

hello. it is likely through this weekend we will see temperatures getting above 30 degrees for the first time this summer. mostly dry with hot sunshine for many, a bit of cloud around to start off saturday morning across parts of east anglia in the south—east, that should clear quite quickly, more cloud further north and west, retreating to the coast of northern ireland but lingering across north—west scotland, it will stay quite windy with the odd spot of rain. cool here as a consequence, further south, the best of the sunshine, 29 or 30 degrees. looking quite likely. that sunshine will be strong with very high ultraviolet levels, especially for southern and south—western areas. as we had three saturday night we continue to see clear spells down towards the south, more cloud towards the north, rain skipping across the far north of scotland and into sunday, we see more cloud across the northern half of the

uk, further south, a lot of sunshine and temperatures perhaps of 30 or 31 degrees!

this is bbc news. i'm mark lobel. our top stories... europe's flooding disaster — rescue teams in western germany, belgium and the netherlands search for hundreds of people still missing. in the us, president biden slams social media companies for not doing enough to tackle vaccine misinformation. they are killing people. the only pandemic we have is among the unvaccinated. and they are killing people. just three days until most covid restrictions are lifted in england — the uk records more than 50,000 new cases in a single day south africa's president has addressed the nation after days of rioting and looting — he says efforts to overthrow democracy have failed