this is bbc news. we will have the headlines and all the main news stories at the top of the hour as a new day continues straight after hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. hungary's prime minister victor orban seems to regard his increasingly toxic relationship with ee ——eu's brussel institution as a badge of honour and a political asset. on a range of issues from press freedom to lgb t rights hungary routinely ignores the collective

interpretation of eu values. but at what cost? my guest is hungary's foreign minister peter szijarto. is there room for a authoritarian, a liberal government inside the eu? peter szijarto in budapest, welcome to hardtalk. good afternoon, thank you for the invitation. it's a pleasure to have you on the show. foreign minister, the relationship between your country and the european union, the institutions of the eu appears ever

more dysfunctional. how concerned are you about that? well, what i would say is we definitely have debates with the institutions in brussels. actually, we are under continuous attack, whatever we decide european institutions find a way to put some pressure on us and try to blackmail us in order to change our decisions and do not take advantage of the national competencies. i think the major issue is that the european unions future is under debate now. how we can make the european union stronger in the future? and there are two major approaches in this regard. a federalistic type of approach which is represented by the institution themselves in which we would like to build kind of a united states

of europe which we definitely oppose. and there's another approach which is in the minority, i have to admit and this is represented by hungary as well. this approach says we need strong european union but a strong european union must be based on a strong member states. and that's why we do not support any other competencies to be brought to brussels from the member states. and this is the core of the issue, this is core of the debate. we do have among ourselves but i would like to underline again the goal is to make the european union stronger and definitely process things differently in this regard. yes, the philosophical debate about the future of europe is something that's been going on for decades and i dare say will go on for decades more. but there is a much more day to day problem here which you as foreign minister, as chief diplomat of your country, you have to wrestle with. and that is that many eu leaders, that is heads of state as well as the institutions themselves see hungary as acting in a way that is

completely antithetic to the values of the eu. and that is concerning specific policy decisions made in hungary. are you prepared to consider changing your approach? no, definitely we are not going to change our approach. and i don't agree with those whom you have quoted here. we act according to the common european values. the common european regulations. these are all perceptions, these are all politically motivated perceptions. we are a conservative christian democratic patriotic government with a very stable background in parliament and in society. which gives a very, very minor, very small room for external interference in the country. i think this is the biggest problem of those who are attacking us. we are always happy to discuss concrete

issues, issue by issue, regulation by regulation. we are ready for the debate, we are ready for dialogue but putting forward perceptions i think simply does not make any kind of sense. we will go through it issue by issue. but before we get to specific issues would you acknowledge, this is gonna cost hungary? this has become plainer in the last week but it's going to cost you potentially billions of euros because the eu is not releasing its special covid, post covid recovery funds 7 billions of euros of which hungary has applied for. it's not going to release those funds for you unless you comply with the so—called rule of law values of the eu. and in the latest reportjust came out from brussels the eu sees quote "insufficient safeguards against political influence in your system, risks and favouritism, nepotism in public administration, risk arising from the link between business

and political actors". is it going to cost you money? steve, let me give you answers in a different point. i promise i'll be short. first, it is just being simply ridiculous what you have quoted from this report and please do not take it personally because it is not you, it is a report what i am speaking about. this is a politically motivated bias, unbalanced, unfair blackmailing type of document. you... second what i want to make... you can say that, you talk about attacks. you just now issued your own, is very a grave attack on the conclusions of an eu body. you can do that but it's not going to change their conclusions. i come back to the point, you're supposed to be the chief diplomat, you're supposed find way through these problems. all you are doing with me is ratcheting up their rhetoric. look, i am not going to be ready to give up the national interest.

and i will never be shy to protect my country. and i never be shy to stand up against lies against my country. because this, what you are quoted and once again see if it is not you, it's the report, it's being based on lies. these are simply not true. these are politically motivated against... politically motivated attacks against my country. this has been the case you, since we have taken office 11 years ago here in hungary. a conservative, patriotic, christian democratic government which definitely goes against the international liberal mainstream and that is the consequence. then all i can say to you foreign minister is that you shouldn't have signed up to the club. because the club has rules and you have to accept those rules as long as you're in the club. and the latest rule which you accepted last year was that there would be

conditionality on the release of these very important recovery funds. you signed up to that, you're going to have to accept it. no. look, we are members of the european union, we act according to the european values and we act regulations as well. you don't act according to the values as we know from this report. we do, we do. but this report is simply a bunch of lies, i have to tell you. we act according to the common values, the common regulations and what the european commission makes is the followings, steve, that they use european funds for blackmailing. they use the european funds to interfere into domestic political issues which are being based purely on national competence. and this is absolutely unacceptable. because look, this is what until you come at the hungarian people and hungary itself has been contributing to the european econometric achievement. european funds are based on the european political achievements. we are contributing to that.

and european funds are not matters of generosity of ourfriends in brussels, these are not humanitarian donations, these are the money, this is the money of the european taxpayers including the hungarian people. blackmailing us. we are not releasing financial funds based on political issues it is simply unacceptable in even more than that, goes goes against that european values and european regulation. you can call it black male but ultimately, the money sits in brussels not with you and you won't get there is another point to what you say, that is you draw this distinction between national competencies and the business of the eu. but the truth is again, because you signed up to the club you have to adhere to core european values as adjudicated by the european court ofjustice. in one very important area right now the europeans believe you are again flagrantly violating their standards.

and that comes with your new law which bans what you call the promotion of homosexuality and information about lgbt issues in your schools. the way it seen in europe is, it's a flagrant violation of european values. steve, you know in the european union there is a very, very clear division of competencies. there are competencies which are the ones of brussels, so—called community competencies and are competencies that are purely national. this is being written in the european regulations, it's crystal clear, it's black and white. if i can come back to one sentence into the money i can tell you that even without the releasing of these funds we will be able to significantly increase

the achievement of the hungarian economy, we will have a very significant gdp growth at the end at the end of the year even without these funds. now, regarding the law, what you were kind enough to mention, steve. here the fact is the following, the hungarian parliament has modified some already existing laws. now, this has two consequences, the first consequences, crimes committed in the relationship of paedophilia are being utilised, sanctioned in a very, very hard, very severe, serious way. the second part, the second part of the law says that it is the exclusive right of the parents, of the parents to conduct the education of their children regarding sexual orientation as long as they are under the age of 18. this is what the law says. it says that it is being

prohibited to present explicit pornographic content to these children, to represent the changing of gender for the kids and to promote homosexuality... once again i want to say... let's once again say. let's try to be simple and clear here, simple question, is sex education happening in hungarian schools and will it continue to happen? look, the children's study biology. and in biology you do have... i'm asking you a simple question, i'm asking you set a simple question. yeah, and i'm asking you... not biology, i know you teach biology. i'm talking about sex education which includes education about relationships, giving kids positive information about the diverse nature of sexual relationships. does that happen in hungary schools? look, the education

regarding sexual orientation can definitely take place by professional staff, by authorised staff. what we banned, what we ban is that activists of certain ngos enter the schools and kindergartens and talk to our children without the permission and the knowledge of ours about sexual orientation. i can tell you steve... with respect, with respect or if i can finish. you put forward fake news about my country about regulations here, you quote some biased report and then when we try to explain, we never have the opportunity. because i really do believe that no ngo, no ngo knows my kids, my sons better than i do. and i definitely stick to my right to conduct their education regarding the sexual orientation and not in ngo in the school

or in the kindergarten. as you mention, as you mentioned your kids... i don't understand why there are attacks on them. as you mention your kids, foreign minister, i think it's only fair for me to ask you that if one of your kids, i don't know if your kids have reached teenage years yet but as and when your kids reach teenage, who knows, one of them might be gay, who knows, we don't know? but would you, if you had a gay child in school not want them to receive an inclusive, positive, affirming set of information about homosexuality? what i know is a following, i have two sons, ages seven and age of ten. and i can talk to them about basically anything. when i see that they've reach that kind of level of of development, when they're interest has reaching there. that's not the question

i asked you. i asked her about the messages they are to receive in school. it's going to be me. it's gonna be me who is going to talk to them about such kind of issues, i stick to it. no lgbt activist in the school but me. i will talk to them about these issues whenever i think it's necessary and whenever i think the situation is appropriate for them. so here we have, here we have. 0k, you've been very plain with me, thank you. here we have another issue which we are clearly heading for a car crash between your government and the eu. the european commission president ursula von der leyan has described the law which we've just discussed as quote,"shameful." we know the eu has already launched legal proceedings against you in your government because of this law. because they are quite clear that it violates european values and laws in several respects. this could end up in the european court ofjustice. is that what you want?

look, i think what is shameful is what the president of the european commission has done. you know, because last time it was in communism that the judgment took place before the trial. so the european commission thinks, thinks that this law could go against some common european regulations. that's why they have launched a procedure against us. during this procedure we will give our arguments, if we cannot convince each other then the issue will go to the european court. but, but announcing thejudgment even before the trial would be started, this is how it was in communism in hungary. so it is shameful what the president of the european commission has done in this regard. with respect, you've describe various things the eu has done as more than shameful. so what her expressing her opinion, i'm hardly

understanding why you're so upset about that. you are very opinionted about all sorts of things. the bottom line is, york prime minister mr orban has now announced that there will be a referendum. he says and i'm quoting him, with the pressure, he means the pressure from brussels on hungary is so strong only the peoples will can protect hungary. that's classic populism but again doesn't follow the law, does it? because whatever you might vote in a referendum, you still have to accept authority of the european court ofjustice unless you are no longer prepared to do that. you say populism, i respect you and i respect your opinion but i think this is democracy. because democracy is about the fulfillment of the will of the people. and now the people will have a chance to make

there will very clear. but real democracy is also about respecting the rule of law. but in this case respecting the european court ofjustice. friendlier referendum doesn't mean anything. what really matters is the ruling of the european court. no, come on, considering the will of the people which means nothing, this is very anti—democratic, i think. i am still sure about the fact that the law which the hungarian parliament has passed is absolutely in line with the european regulations. the european charger eight charter eight charter of fundamental right that the parents do have the right to in sure the education of their kids is in conformity to with their social and psychological aspects. so what we have done here is absolutely within the european regulation. and even more than that, issues of education are falling within the national competencies. so a referendum will definitely count, we are ready to get

the chance of the people to announce their opinion very clearly and everybody will have to respect. i'm sure you saw, foreign ministerfrom last year freedom house, the democracy watchdog group, they said that hungary could no longer be considered as a full, free democracy. they describe you now is partly free. and one of their biggest concerns was press freedom in your country and the fact that 80% of the media in hungary is in one way or another closely linked or associated with the ruling party and the prime minister. it's not healthy, is it? you know, i don't really care what freedom house says about my country because it's really unserious about what they do. saying that 80% of hungarian beta is somehow attached to the government is just simply a huge, huge, fake news. if you spoke hungarian as you do not you would be

aware that this is absolutely not true. if you look at the internet, you look at what kind of views are being circulated on a daily basis, you will see a huge majority of articles being against the government and the minority of them which are kind of pro what we have been doing. you cannot name, steve one sector of hungarian media where the market leaders would not be very heavily antigovernment. so this is what freedom house says is a simple lie in this regard as well, unfortunately, i have to say. let's talk about the specific revelations we've learned in several days from a group of international investigative journalists, the so—called, pegasus revelations about the use of new spyware developed in israel. it apparently has been used to hack into the phones and even the encrypted messaging services of individuals around the world. what is fascinating is that the leak show that 300 at least hungarian phone numbers, mostly connected

to journalists, lawyers, some business leaders have been hacked. and a former nso employee speaking to the washington post says that the hungarian government was a client. why have you been doing this? i'm sorry, but who says that? a former employee of this company nso that developed the spyware says your government was a client. yeah, but who is he? i mean, this is someone who says something in a secret or a hidden way or has any kind of evidence or did he show any kind of documentation about that? i don't know, you are building a huge international campaign on someone who makes a statement with no evidence, what are we speaking about? well, what are you speaking about, you denying it, or no? did the hungarian government use the spyware?

look, don't go into a soviet type of propaganda. don't. .. minister, it's a very simple question. this is nothing to do a soviet propaganda, is a very simple question. did you use spyware? it is because you paint a portrait of the situation as there are no secret services in every state and the secret services would not use a different kind of technology in order to protect national security. as far as i understood from this report which i guess you referred to said that there were 45 countries on the globe, 45 governments and like 65, i don't remember the exact number secret services who have bought this technology. my question is, is it a crime that a secret service buys a technology through which the secret service can protect national security interest? is that a crime? or why... well, let me quote the words of one of 36 journalists

who we know it is been, his phone is been analysed, he was hacked in this way, he was surveilled, the spyware was put on his phone. he says, i am being treated as a threat, like a russian spy or a terrorist or a mobster. this is a hungarianjournalist who happens to be not a friend of your government who has been surveilled. and you won't even tell me whether your government is responsible. what i can tell you the following, you can be absolutely sure that since we have taken office here in hungary, which was 2010, we have not monitored, we have not wire taped anybody and in a legal way. you can be absolutely sure about it. no one was wiretapped just because of being journalists or no one was wiretapped just because of not being friendly to the government. you can be absolutely sure about that, steve. we must end. i'm going to leave you with these comments from the dutch prime minister,

at the last eu summit. he said quote, "for me, hungary has no place in the eu any more, if you don't like it he said, directing his comments are hungary, there is an alternative, leave the union." would you share that sentiment? yeah... would you consider it? no, this dutch prime minister hates the hungarians. he is kind of hungary—phobic. i could tell you that hungary has been in the european union and will be in the european union, we'll be working for a strong european union in the future as well. foreign minister of hungary, peter szijarto, i thank you very much indeed for being on hardtalk. i appreciate it, i appreciate it. bye— bye.

we are still in the middle of this heat wave or just passed it. thunderstorms are the past days that should break the heat. it certainly has been hot in northern island was up hotspot in county tyrone, 31.3 a provisional record for northern ireland only beating saturday's value butjust .1 of a degree. in the satellite picture we could see some clouds to the best of our neighborhood. that's a developing area of low pressure. and it will be nearing us over the next few days pushing the high pressure away. and this is going to bring some slow moving thunderstorms we will talk about thatjust a 2nd. i have to mention the met office warning of extreme heat for the southwest of the uk. and for northern ireland lasting into friday. and this is to highlight also the high temperatures overnight, notjust by day. in fact you could see how warm it is still through the middle

of the night on thursday it will have been around 18 to 20 c. through the night and into the early hours of the morning is clear skies, maybe a bit of cloud first thing across northern and eastern scotland perhaps the northeast of england. that should mostly clear through the afternoon but the temperatures will be skyrocketing. in fact, hot enough for some local downpours and thunderstorms to develop across some central part of the country. notice the wind is mostly an easterly, very light easterly. it's pushing the heat further towards the east. that means the highest temperatures on thursday could well be in northern ireland, we could be another record that remains to be seen. possibly up to 32. for most of us that would be mid to high 20s. friday still a very warm day. wouldn't necessarily class it is a very hot day day but warm enough. temperatures into the middle or high 20s. notice in blue, some rain, thunderstorms brewing just to the southwest of us.

this is an area of low pressure which will drag in fresh atlantic air and push the hot air towards more eastern parts. these could be slow moving thunderstorms and slow moving thunderstorms can bring an awful lot of rainfall in a short space of time. and that's to come this weekend, saturday and sunday especially across the southern half of the uk. something to bear in mind.

welcome to newsday reporting live from singapore. i am correction of the swami. the headlines. 25 dead but also dramatic rescues in the central chinese province after the heaviest rainfall ever recorded. some fourth their way out of trains on the subway. we broke half _ out of trains on the subway. - broke half of a window so air could get in otherwise we would have choked. the threat of climate change is all too real for many other countries, above all — low—lying ones. i'll be discussing this with david panuelo, president of the federated states of micronesia. i'm sarah mulkerrins live in tokyo. and with the action finally underway, we'll bring you some

of the stories of how athletes from all around the world have been getting inventive with their training