tv HAR Dtalk BBC News July 22, 2021 8:30pm-9:01pm BST
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tokyo's olympic organisers say, friday night's opening ceremony will go ahead, without any major change despite the sacking of the show�*s creative director. kentaro kobayashi was dismissed over past comments he made about the holocaust. an investigation has been launched after — two beach volleyball players — from the czech olympics team — tested positive for covid. a team doctor who is said to have declined to be vaccinated — also tested positive. china has ordered an urgent review into flood safety, after twelve people died trapped in a flooded subway tunnel. more than 20 others have died and hundreds of thousands evacuated after devastating flooding in hunaan province. norway has been holding a series of events to remember the 77 people murdered by the far—right extremist anders breivik ten years ago today. the norwegian prime minister, erna solberg, spoke of the need to combat racism and far— right extremism. you're watching bbc news.
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in an exclusive bbc news special, laura kuenssberg speaks to dominic cummings, the former chief adviser to the prime minister. a warning this programme contains flash photography. troublemaker. history maker. there are no strangers to chaos. pushing borisjohnson on behind closed doors. boris johnson on behind closed doors. , ., ., doors. yesterday, i gave a full re ort doors. yesterday, i gave a full report of _ doors. yesterday, i gave a full report of my _ doors. yesterday, i gave a full report of my actions. - doors. yesterday, i gave a full report of my actions. into - doors. yesterday, i gave a full report of my actions. into hisl doors. yesterday, i gave a full. report of my actions. into his own mistake exploded _ report of my actions. into his own mistake exploded in _ report of my actions. into his own mistake exploded in public. - report of my actions. into his own mistake exploded in public. and | report of my actions. into his own . mistake exploded in public. and they ended u- mistake exploded in public. and they ended up on — mistake exploded in public. and they ended up on the _ mistake exploded in public. and they ended up on the outskirts, _ mistake exploded in public. and they ended up on the outskirts, we - mistake exploded in public. and they ended up on the outskirts, we did - ended up on the outskirts, we did not visit the castle or walk around town. he not visit the castle or walk around town. ., ., ., . . ., ., town. he never agreed to account for what he's done _ town. he never agreed to account for what he's done until— town. he never agreed to account for what he's done until now. _
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town. he never agreed to account for what he's done until now. mr - what he's done until now. mr cummings, you've never spoken like this before, have you? your story is, of course, completely interwoven with the prime minister's political fortune. how would you describe borisjohnson? fortune. how would you describe boris johnson?_ fortune. how would you describe borisjohnson? ., ., ,. , boris johnson? how would i describe them? in what— boris johnson? how would i describe them? in what way? _ boris johnson? how would i describe them? in what way? from _ boris johnson? how would i describe l them? in what way? from politically? what is the belief politically? or? as a leader, as a politician, as a human being. how would you describe them? he human being. how would you describe them? , ., , human being. how would you describe them? _, , , them? he is a very complicated character- _ them? he is a very complicated character. he, _ them? he is a very complicated character. he, he _ them? he is a very complicated character. he, he is— them? he is a very complicated character. he, he is unusual- them? he is a very complicated character. he, he is unusual in| them? he is a very complicated | character. he, he is unusual in a lot of politicians and having a sort of odd self—awareness mode. he kind of odd self—awareness mode. he kind of knows and all sorts of ways it is ludicrous for him to be in that position. he said that to me a few times before the referendum and he said it to me the day after the 24th ofjune stop but he said it would be
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ludicrous for them to be prime minister? used that word? yes. in thejugular way. minister? used that word? yes. in thejugularway. it's minister? used that word? yes. in thejugular way. it's the minister? used that word? yes. in the jugular way. it's the 24th of june 2016. and obviously, it's ludicrous that david's prime minister, george wilson prime minister, george wilson prime minister, the whole thing is ludicrous. he has a sort of the general tragicomedy of the british political scene. truth? general tragicomedy of the british political scene.— political scene. why is it funny to ou that political scene. why is it funny to you that you _ political scene. why is it funny to you that you helped _ political scene. why is it funny to you that you helped put - political scene. why is it funny to you that you helped put some . political scene. why is it funny to you that you helped put some in | political scene. why is it funny to i you that you helped put some in the power that in your own view, and you are telling us today in his view, it is ludicrous for them to be in the job? he said it was tragically comic. ., ., , job? he said it was tragically comic. . ., , , job? he said it was tragically comic. . , ., comic. that was his point of view. use a guy — comic. that was his point of view. use a guy that — comic. that was his point of view. use a guy that makes _ comic. that was his point of view. use a guy that makes a _ comic. that was his point of view. use a guy that makes a lot - comic. that was his point of view. use a guy that makes a lot of- comic. that was his point of view. i use a guy that makes a lot of jokes, use a guy that makes a lot ofjokes, that was his view of it. that's not how i would look at it. i said for many years, how terrible it is that
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these kind of characters are the ones the dominate politics and power in this country. so, it is not a laughing matterfor me. but for his point of view, it was a laughing matter. ., ., , ., , point of view, it was a laughing matter. ., ., , , [m matter. how do you see yourself? how do i see myself? _ matter. how do you see yourself? how do i see myself? how do _ matter. how do you see yourself? how do i see myself? how do you _ matter. how do you see yourself? how do i see myself? how do you think- do i see myself? how do you think others see — do i see myself? how do you think others see you? _ do i see myself? how do you think others see you? generally - do i see myself? how do you think others see you? generally as - others see you? generally as a nightmare- _ others see you? generally as a nightmare. what _ others see you? generally as a nightmare. what is _ others see you? generally as a nightmare. what is this - others see you? generally as a nightmare. what is this about | others see you? generally as a i nightmare. what is this about for ou now nightmare. what is this about for you now though? _ nightmare. what is this about for you now though? lots _ nightmare. what is this about for you now though? lots of - nightmare. what is this about for you now though? lots of people | nightmare. what is this about for i you now though? lots of people are listening to you and thinking, this is revenge. you lost the influence of downing street. you lost the argument. you lost yourjob and now you are angry and so you are attacking. it's revenge, isn't it? the reason i'm speaking out is, i want people to be thinking about
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these questions. how are we governed? how is power exercised in number ten? what sort of thing should be more transparent? how should be more transparent? how should these power structures be open? should these power structures be 0 en? ., u, should these power structures be oen? ., _, , should these power structures be oen? ., , .," ., should these power structures be oen? ., , ., ., open? you could be making all of those points- _ open? you could be making all of those points. you _ open? you could be making all of those points. you can _ open? you could be making all of those points. you can making - open? you could be making all of those points. you can making all| open? you could be making all of. those points. you can making all of those points. you can making all of those arguments without trying to trash the reputations of other ministers without being so personal. this is also revenge, isn't it? it’s this is also revenge, isn't it? it's not about— this is also revenge, isn't it? it�*s not about revenge, it is also, does not about revenge, it is also, does not matter if it's personal. it is a matter of people are upset. all these mps are ministers or whoever that might say, it is personal. we need more difficult conversations in this country. we need more people upset stop by let's go to covid—19. it was like in downing street when you start to realise how serious this could be? it was obviously extremely frightening and also
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pretty surreal as well. because it's like you're in a disaster movie, but it's not a disaster movie, it's actually real. and you're looking around at the different people who are in key position in thinking they are in key position in thinking they are not the people who should be in charge of the sort of thing. it is m 'ob charge of the sort of thing. it is my job to _ charge of the sort of thing. it is my job to talk— charge of the sort of thing. it is my job to talk to _ charge of the sort of thing. it is myjob to talk to people of all sides of the political divide, remember talking to you in the february you mentioned the government was starting to make serious plans. at that point, didn't seem that the prime minister was particularly involved in this. that particularly involved in this. at that particularly involved in this. git that point, the first week of march, you're saying business as usual. he did not take it seriously. mas you're saying business as usual. he did not take it seriously.— did not take it seriously. was the atmosphere _ did not take it seriously. was the atmosphere like _ did not take it seriously. was the atmosphere like in _ did not take it seriously. was the atmosphere like in downing - did not take it seriously. was the i atmosphere like in downing street? he didn't take it seriously at all? know. he didn't take it seriously. he said it was just like swine flu, i've seen the scares over and over again and they're always nonsense.
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and his priorities and his concerns were. ., y ., and his priorities and his concerns were. ., , ., ., , and his priorities and his concerns were. ., i. ., , were. one of your team member said that the numbers _ were. one of your team member said that the numbers are _ were. one of your team member said that the numbers are much _ were. one of your team member said that the numbers are much worse - were. one of your team member said l that the numbers are much worse than we think and that basically the government scientist projections were wrong. government scientist pro'ections were wong-fl government scientist projections were wrong. yes. what was that like? a very smart — were wrong. yes what was that like? a very smart physicist was subbing the nhs with data and said, it doesn't seem that this has been thought out. has this been properly checked? this whole herd immunity plan and are you ok if i go around and lookfor plan and are you ok if i go around and look for some and talk to people and look for some and talk to people and think about this and look for plan b? i said yes, definitely do. and as the dates ticked on from there, it was increasingly clear that the official plan was going to be a disaster. and there are a few
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other people, essentially was missing to the prime minister, vital elements of the system have got this terribly wrong. there was some kind of terrible confusion that people are not looking at the right numbers and essentially, we said to him that the initial plan is a disaster and that we cannot do it. it will kill off so many people. bud that we cannot do it. it will kill off so many people.— that we cannot do it. it will kill off so many people. and in some wa s, off so many people. and in some ways. the — off so many people. and in some ways, the prime _ off so many people. and in some ways, the prime minister- off so many people. and in some ways, the prime minister is - off so many people. and in some ways, the prime minister is stick| off so many people. and in some i ways, the prime minister is stick to routines? . ways, the prime minister is stick to routines? , ., , routines? yes, he was. on the evenin: routines? yes, he was. on the evening of— routines? yes, he was. on the evening of wednesday - routines? yes, he was. on the evening of wednesday the - routines? yes, he was. on the. evening of wednesday the 18th, routines? yes, he was. on the i evening of wednesday the 18th, i was the queen and he was going and so, you can see the complete craziness of the time and somebody saying this is a deadly disease director will lock everything down but also we just carry on as normal. and other people still meeting face—to—face as well. things have not made a physical shift. well. things have not made a physical shift-— well. things have not made a physical shift. well. things have not made a -h sical shift. ~ :, ., ,, i] physical shift. what happened in? i said, what physical shift. what happened in? i said. what are _ physical shift. what happened in? i said, what are you _ physical shift. what happened in? i said, what are you doing. -
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physical shift. what happened in? i said, what are you doing. i - physical shift. what happened in? i said, what are you doing. i said, i said, what are you doing. i said, what on earth you talking about, you're in not going to see the queen. that's, it's what i do every wednesday. i'm going to go and see her. i said, wednesday. i'm going to go and see her. isaid, i really don't wednesday. i'm going to go and see her. i said, i really don't think you should do that. look around this office. as we spoke, on the side of the study, it was basically empty, possibly because people in that officer isolating. there are people in this office were isolating, you might have coronavirus and i might have coronavirus and you can go and see the queen, what if you go and see the queen, what if you go and see her and give the queen coronavirus? you obviously can't go. the possibility went through your head that the prime minister might pass coronavirus to the queen? yes. how did she — pass coronavirus to the queen? 1l; how did she persuade pass coronavirus to the queen? 133 how did she persuade him pass coronavirus to the queen? 1l?» how did she persuade him not to do with? i how did she persuade him not to do with? , :, how did she persuade him not to do with? i. :, ., with? i said if you go and give her coronavirus and _ with? i said if you go and give her coronavirus and she _ with? i said if you go and give her coronavirus and she dies, -
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with? i said if you go and give her coronavirus and she dies, what i coronavirus and she dies, what are you going to? you can't do that! you can't risk that! that's completely insane. ,, ., insane. downing street said that didn't happen- — insane. downing street said that didn't happen- i— insane. downing street said that didn't happen. i know _ insane. downing street said that didn't happen. i know that i insane. downing street said that didn't happen. i know that the i didn't happen. i know that the eo - le didn't happen. i know that the people that — didn't happen. i know that the people that were _ didn't happen. i know that the people that were there - didn't happen. i know that the people that were there know i didn't happen. i know that the i people that were there know what happened. ilipids people that were there know what ha ened. ~ .,, people that were there know what hauened. l , happened. was there remember the prime minister _ happened. was there remember the prime minister froze _ happened. was there remember the prime minister froze ill? _ happened. was there remember the prime minister froze ill? you - prime ministerfroze ill? you eventually follow. let's talk about what you already admitted was a terrible mistake. that you did not tell the whole truth when it was reported that you had left london at the beginning of lockdown to go to county durham. now is the moment, what really happened?— county durham. now is the moment, what really happened? when i spoke, i did not what really happened? when i spoke, i did not going — what really happened? when i spoke, i did not going to _ what really happened? when i spoke, i did not going to all— what really happened? when i spoke, i did not going to all of— what really happened? when i spoke, i did not going to all of the _ i did not going to all of the details for various reasons. essentially, i had repeated security problems at my house going back to 2019. and these problems re—emerge
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thousand discussions with the cabinet office about the situation and they suggested all of us moving to different accommodations. i said maybe, but maybe ijust left my dads farm and we talked about those different options and i talked to people about that. and my wife is kind of ill, but not with the official symptoms, whether or not she's got it. so we had the combination of, security problems which anyway, we're going to get out. ~ . which anyway, we're going to get out. l , , , . out. when this emerged in the public realise that one _ out. when this emerged in the public realise that one of _ out. when this emerged in the public realise that one of the _ out. when this emerged in the public realise that one of the most - out. when this emerged in the public realise that one of the most senior. realise that one of the most senior people in the government had left lockdown at a time where people were unable to go and see sick relatives, there was an enormous public rage. why didn't you just tell the truth at the time was yellow well, the
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situation was extremely chaotic. you decided not to tell the truth. you didn't have to give a press conference and tell the stories. ilipids conference and tell the stories. was not at all the _ conference and tell the stories. —" not at all the original plan. the original plan was discussing with the prime minister on saturday and sunday was, given he knew what it actually happened, he agreed we should just say nothing about it and the media will say whatever the media is going to say because is all kinds of conspiracy theories, but would ignore that. what happened on the monday is, that he suddenly his mind and said, we cannot stick with the original plan, you're going to have to explain it to people. i said, i'm not going into all the security stuff and the whole thing just became a huge mess. together, ou auree just became a huge mess. together, you agree that _ just became a huge mess. together, you agree that it _ just became a huge mess. together, you agree that it was _ just became a huge mess. together, you agree that it was better- just became a huge mess. together, you agree that it was better for i just became a huge mess. together, you agree that it was better for you i you agree that it was better for you to tell a story that wasn't true
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then to stay silent? everything i said in the _ then to stay silent? everything i said in the rose _ then to stay silent? everything i said in the rose garden - then to stay silent? everything i said in the rose garden was i then to stay silent? everything i | said in the rose garden was true then to stay silent? everything i i said in the rose garden was true but i did, everything i said was true, but i did not go into all of the security concerns in the background stop by there was a very different story, it was a very different story. you and borisjohnson decided it was better. to story. you and boris johnson decided it was better-— it was better. to give the public, who many _ it was better. to give the public, who many of— it was better. to give the public, who many of them _ it was better. to give the public, who many of them were - it was better. to give the public, i who many of them were absolutely furious with what you had done, you decided that it was better to give the public a story that was not the 100% truth and to keep silent or even for you to resign. that would've made it go away. t even for you to resign. that would've made it go away. i think there's absolutely _ would've made it go away. i think there's absolutely no _ would've made it go away. i think there's absolutely no doubt i would've made it go away. i think there's absolutely no doubt that i would've made it go away. i think i there's absolutely no doubt that the way we handle the whole thing was wrong on the mandate. what i should have done is eitherjust resigned and said nothing about anything or, ijust spoken to
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and said nothing about anything or, i just spoken to my family and said listen, he does have to come clean about the whole thing. lets listen, he does have to come clean about the whole thing.— about the whole thing. lets talk about the whole thing. lets talk about the whole thing. lets talk about the next _ about the whole thing. lets talk about the next phase _ about the whole thing. lets talk about the next phase of- about the whole thing. lets talk about the next phase of the i about the next phase of the pandemic. to the summer, the country was significantly opened up and cases had gone down again and at the start of the autumn through september, they started to take up again. the virus was not done with us. what was your attitude at the time? l l. us. what was your attitude at the time? l :, ., ., , :, , time? well, a fundamental problem was that in the _ time? well, a fundamental problem was that in the summer, _ time? well, a fundamental problem was that in the summer, the - was that in the summer, the prime minister attitude that essentially, the first lockdown was a disaster, we should've never done it stop what he believes he should have never done the first lockdown? he said that repeatedly in the meetings. after he came back to work.
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initially, his view was essentially thank goodness we didn't do that but very quickly, the telegraph in various parts of the media and the tory party started screaming and he basically reverted and said, actually the whole thing was a disaster. i was right in february, we should've just ignored it and that washed all over the country. t that washed all over the country. i remember talking to you as i talked other people in senior positions and other people in senior positions and other parties to and there was a discussion about circuit breaker. when you get to the week of round about 15 to the 19th of september, ljy about 15 to the 19th of september, by that point, the date it was clear about what was happening and we came to downing street and said, it is clear where this is going, we think you should consider hitting it hard in early. and we said no, were not
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doing its. in early. and we said no, were not doinu its. . in early. and we said no, were not doinu its. , , , doing its. this debate is still auoin on doing its. this debate is still going on and _ doing its. this debate is still going on and the _ doing its. this debate is still going on and the prime i doing its. this debate is still- going on and the prime minister decided not to do the second breaker, a short lockdown and cases continue to go up and you're saying that you make the case very strongly in government but he was still resisting. always the he saying by that point? he resisting. always the he saying by that oint? ., , resisting. always the he saying by that oint? :, , , :, , ., that point? he was 'ust hoping that somethin: that point? he was 'ust hoping that something would i that point? he wasjust hoping that something would work— that point? he wasjust hoping that something would work out. - that point? he wasjust hoping that. something would work out. also, his attitude at that point was a weird mix of partly, it's all nonsense and lockdown stonework anyway. importantly, well, this is terrible but, the people who are dying are essentially all over 80 and we cannot kill the economyjust because of people over 80 dying. b, cannot kill the economy 'ust because of people over 80 dying]— of people over 80 dying. a serious claim to make. _ of people over 80 dying. a serious claim to make. lots _ of people over 80 dying. a serious claim to make. lots of— of people over 80 dying. a serious claim to make. lots of people i of people over 80 dying. a serious i claim to make. lots of people heard the prime minister _ claim to make. lots of people heard the prime minister say _ claim to make. lots of people heard the prime minister say that - claim to make. lots of people heard the prime minister say that in the i the prime minister say that in the prime minister texted that to me and
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other people and when the inquiry happens never has to give evidence under oath, like other things that i've said to you today, this is not just me saying this, many, many people will say under oath and to the public inquiry that if that ever happens, when i said today was true. you had a very prominent and influential role in what happened in this country over the past five to six years. if we go back six years, just winning the election, you are sitting in your garden having a beer and reading a book. the phone goes, someone says will you come and run the referendum? do you ever wish you had left the call go to voice mail? no. there aren't moments where i wish that the case. i have thought about it hard and that a, did i do
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the right thing? to do the referendum, and if you're someone like me making these kind of judgements, you're a complete idiot if you think you can, you're right about them. none of us know of any of these things are right or wrong. use i'm pretty sure about many things you say. use i'm pretty sure about many things you say-— things you say. well, i can be confident _ things you say. well, i can be confident about _ things you say. well, i can be confident about is _ things you say. well, i can be confident about is so - things you say. well, i can be confident about is so up i things you say. well, i can be confident about is so up for i things you say. well, i can be i confident about is so up for the job or if they are extremely able or rubbish? well, i've shown good judgment on those of the past few years. but as far as brexit being a good idea, no one really knows what the answer to that is. did good idea, no one really knows what the answer to that is.— the answer to that is. did you decide today, _ the answer to that is. did you decide today, even _ the answer to that is. did you decide today, even you i the answer to that is. did you decide today, even you are i the answer to that is. did you i decide today, even you are not sure if brexit was a good idea.— if brexit was a good idea. anyone who is sure _ if brexit was a good idea. anyone who is sure about _ if brexit was a good idea. anyone who is sure about things - if brexit was a good idea. anyone who is sure about things like i if brexit was a good idea. anyone who is sure about things like thatj who is sure about things like that have a screw loose, even if you are on the leave or a main site. we did
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not think that we are definitely right and remainders are all idiots are traitors or anything like that. i never thought like that. and we still don't and i don't now. i think it's perfectly reasonable to say that brexit was a mistake and that history will prove that. of course it is reasonable for people to think that. . idon't it is reasonable for people to think that. . i don't know what sort of person would be if you didn't have a view like that. do person would be if you didn't have a view like that.— view like that. do you think you have been _ view like that. do you think you have been a — view like that. do you think you have been a force _ view like that. do you think you have been a force for _ view like that. do you think you have been a force for good? i view like that. do you think you have been a force for good? do you think you've done damage to the country during the time or you had power and influence, the country became very divided and our politics became very divided and our politics became more brutal. t became very divided and our politics became more brutal.— became more brutal. i think that obviously. _ became more brutal. ! think that obviously. l— became more brutal. ! think that obviously, i think— became more brutal. i think that obviously, i think brexit - became more brutal. i think that obviously, i think brexit was i became more brutal. i think that obviously, i think brexit was a i became more brutal. i think that i obviously, i think brexit was a good thing. i think that the way in which the world has worked out vindicates the world has worked out vindicates the argument that vote we've made in all sorts of ways. i think the brexit happened being the good
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thing. 50 brexit happened being the good thin, ,:, brexit happened being the good thin. ., :, , , thing. so your relationship with the prime minister _ thing. so your relationship with the prime minister was _ thing. so your relationship with the prime minister was already - thing. so your relationship with the | prime minister was already breaking down then by art in 2020? yes. prime minister was already breaking down then by art in 2020?— down then by art in 2020? yes. i summer 2020. _ down then by art in 2020? yes. i summer 2020. why _ down then by art in 2020? yes. i summer 2020. why was - down then by art in 2020? yes. i summer 2020. why was that i down then by art in 2020? yes. i summer 2020. why was that and down then by art in 2020? yes. i- summer 2020. why was that and what ha--ened summer 2020. why was that and what happened and — summer 2020. why was that and what happened and why _ summer 2020. why was that and what happened and why did _ summer 2020. why was that and what happened and why did you _ summer 2020. why was that and what happened and why did you then - happened and why did you then finally walk out so dramatically in the darkness clutching a cardboard box full of your belongings? what happened ? i think, first of all, she was fed u i ? i think, first of all, she was fed u- with ? i think, first of all, she was fed up with the _ ? i think, first of all, she was fed up with the media _ ? i think, first of all, she was fed up with the media portrayal- ? i think, first of all, she was fed i up with the media portrayal of him being a puppet for the boat leaf team. it was driving him around the bend. :, :, team. it was driving him around the bend. :, ., i. �* team. it was driving him around the bend. :, ., �* :, bend. from what you've said today, that sounds — bend. from what you've said today, that sounds pretty _ bend. from what you've said today, that sounds pretty accurate. - bend. from what you've said today, that sounds pretty accurate. was i that sounds pretty accurate. was also upset _ that sounds pretty accurate. was also upset by _ that sounds pretty accurate. was also upset by the _ that sounds pretty accurate. —" also upset by the fact that i was spending my time with what i thought was important, not on politics, not on communication in campaigning stuff, was spending my time
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science and staff stop but he said he was upset because he didn't do what i wanted him to do. he was the elected prime minister. but listenin: elected prime minister. but listening to _ elected prime minister. but listening to you, _ elected prime minister. but listening to you, it sounds very clearly that in your relationship, you saw yourself is the superior. no, i'm not saying i'm the better person than him. teeth? no, i'm not saying i'm the better person than him.— no, i'm not saying i'm the better person than him. why should i have aid person than him. why should i have paid attention _ person than him. why should i have paid attention to _ person than him. why should i have paid attention to what _ person than him. why should i have paid attention to what he _ person than him. why should i have paid attention to what he wanted i person than him. why should i have | paid attention to what he wanted me to do? t paid attention to what he wanted me to do? ~ l. paid attention to what he wanted me to do? ~ ., ., paid attention to what he wanted me to do? ~ :, ., , ., paid attention to what he wanted me to do? ~' ., ., , ., .,, to do? i think! had a plan, i was starting to _ to do? i think! had a plan, i was starting to get — to do? i think! had a plan, i was starting to get things _ to do? i think! had a plan, i was starting to get things done, i to do? i thinki had a plan, i was starting to get things done, he l to do? i thinki had a plan, i was i starting to get things done, he did not have a plan, he did not have an agenda. the prime ministers on the agenda. the prime ministers on the agenda is buy more more buses, more trains and a stupid tunnel. and we also disagreed with what was happening on covid—19i also disagreed with what was happening on covid—19 i was blaming happening on covid—i9 i was blaming him for that. and i thought that his
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girlfriend was interfering with appointments, she wanted to have people fired and people promoted. in ways that i thought were unethical and unprofessional. and that also led to a big argument between us. which are evidence for that? that is quite a claim to make. dressing that washed johnson's girlfriend, now wife, was interfering and proper government process? what is your evidence for that? the government process? what is your evidence for that?— government process? what is your evidence for that? the most obvious evidence for that? the most obvious evidence is what _ evidence for that? the most obvious evidence is what happened - evidence for that? the most obvious evidence is what happened with - evidence for that? the most obvious evidence is what happened with the | evidence is what happened with the whole prime minister official spokesman. there was a whole official process that hired an excellent young woman who then, after months of this process happening, it was alljust thrown in the bin and the person who, the prime ministers girlfriend wanted to be suddenly appointed. we said this is completely not how, this is
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completely hopeless way for things to be run and that led to a lot of tension. ., . ~' to be run and that led to a lot of tension. ., ., ~ ., ., , , . , tension. you talked a lot publicly about the influence _ tension. you talked a lot publicly about the influence of _ tension. you talked a lot publicly about the influence of the - tension. you talked a lot publicly about the influence of the prime | about the influence of the prime ministers wife it very clear that you do not agree with her on a lot of issues. what kind of things are you you talking about? yes she does this, she does that push them around but accusing someone of having undue influence, that is a big claim. terry's view was the prime minister doesn't have a plan, he doesn't know how whitehall works. someone is going to settle the agenda in the can either be the civil service or it can be dominic in the boat leaf team or it can be me. in 2019, her view was, better that it is dominic and the boat leaf team and in the civil service because that's the route to winning and staying in number ten. as soon as the election was one, her argument was why should it be dominic in the leaf team, why
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should it be me pulling the strings. but you and terryjohnson were rivals for the prime minister poss policy year. —— carrie symonds. it's almost an extraordinary situation that you portray here. an that you portray here. in extraordinarily bad situation. that you portray here. an - extraordinarily bad situation. but in the end. _ extraordinarily bad situation. but in the end, you lose the argument, you lose that influence. that's what happened, isn't it?— happened, isn't it? yes. in fact, literally immediately _ happened, isn't it? yes. in fact, literally immediately after - happened, isn't it? yes. in fact, literally immediately after the i literally immediately after the election, was already clear that this was a problem. before even mid january, we were having meetings number ten saying that it is clear that carrie symonds wants rid of all of us and by the summer, will all have gone from here will be in the process trying to get someone else in this prime minister. but process trying to get someone else
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in this prime minister.— process trying to get someone else in this prime minister. but you said within months, _ in this prime minister. but you said within months, the _ in this prime minister. but you said within months, the prime - in this prime minister. but you said within months, the prime minister| within months, the prime minister winning the biggest conservative majority in decades, you and a few others from the boat leaf campaign were discussing the possibility of getting rid of him.— getting rid of him. days, not months- _ getting rid of him. days, not months. within _ getting rid of him. days, not months. within days, - getting rid of him. days, not months. within days, you i getting rid of him. days, not| months. within days, you are discussing — months. within days, you are discussing getting _ months. within days, you are discussing getting rid - months. within days, you are discussing getting rid of - months. within days, you are| discussing getting rid of him? months. within days, you are - discussing getting rid of him? yes. for all of the _ discussing getting rid of him? yes. for all of the reasons _ discussing getting rid of him? 133 for all of the reasons we have been discussing. he doesn't have a plan, he doesn't know how to be prime minister and we only put them in there because it does solve a certain problem, not because he was going to run the country but what kind of content you put on the british public than? i do not think it is a con, wejust british public than? i do not think it is a con, we just have to solve very hard problems and the only way we could solve the men.— we could solve the men. there's nothina we could solve the men. there's nothing wrong — we could solve the men. there's nothing wrong with _ we could solve the men. there's nothing wrong with running - we could solve the men. there's nothing wrong with running a - we could solve the men. there's l nothing wrong with running a eden election campaign, presenting with thing and saying he's the guy for the job thing and saying he's the guy for thejob and then thing and saying he's the guy for the job and then days after the result comes through, you then unelected official and save the government discussed getting rid of him. that's ok?—
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him. that's ok? that's politics. when did you — him. that's ok? that's politics. when did you last _ him. that's ok? that's politics. when did you last speak - him. that's ok? that's politics. when did you last speak to - him. that's ok? that's politics. | when did you last speak to boris johnson? . , when did you last speak to boris johnson? ., , , johnson? the last time i spoke to him was the _ johnson? the last time i spoke to him was the friday _ johnson? the last time i spoke to him was the friday of— johnson? the last time i spoke to him was the friday of number- johnson? the last time i spoke to | him was the friday of number ten. johnson? the last time i spoke to - him was the friday of number ten. no contact since then? he _ him was the friday of number ten. no contact since then? he texted - him was the friday of number ten. no contact since then? he texted me - contact since then? he texted me a coule contact since then? he texted me a coople days — contact since then? he texted me a coople days later — contact since then? he texted me a couple days later asking _ contact since then? he texted me a couple days later asking if - couple days later asking if you would speak to him and i said no. by mac you want to? it doesn't bother me one way or the other. in response, downing street said...
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hello. it appears northern ireland has broken a temperature record for the third time in less than a week. 31.4 celsius recorded this afternoon and provisionally a new record temperature for northern ireland. and northern ireland will be one of the slowest place to cool down, this extreme heat warning from the met office with parts of england and wales expires at midnight. the one for northern ireland continues on through tomorrow. certainly very warm and muggy overnights, low cloud moving in again across eastern scotland to the central belt and affecting eastern parts of england as well, tending to burn back towards the coast tomorrow. sunday spells for many, just the odd isolated thunderstorm but the wind starts to strengthen down towards the south and it is going to be cooler
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this is bbc news — i'm shaun ley, our top stories. of some of its worst floods ever — as hundreds of thousands china deals with the devastating aftermath — of some of its worst floods ever — as hundreds of thousands are forced from their homes. meanwhile, beijing rejects plans for a second study into the origins of covid—19, the white house calls the move irresponsible and dangerous. ten years on from the murder of 77 people by a far—right extremist — norway marks the anniversary of its worst—ever attack in peace time. # he walks away # the sun goes down # he takes the day but i'm grown...# and remembering an icon — we talk to one of amy winehouse's friends on the eve of the opening of a new gallery showing photos of the singer never seen before.
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