hello, and welcome to the programme bringing together leading uk commentators, bbc specialists, and the correspondents who write, blog, and broadcast for audiences back home from the dateline: london. this week — will england pay a price for borisjohnson�*s freedom day? and a trifecta of global worry — afghanistan, iran, and lebanon. the dateline panel trying to put your mind at rest — or not — are the sudanese author and journalist, nesrine malik, bronwen maddox, director of the institute for government — and before that, foreign

editor at the times. and wth me in the studio, the middle east editor for the bbc world service, sebastian usher. welcome to you, sebastian, and both of you, thanks so much forjoining us. now, the sound of an english summer. no, not leather on willow, nor the clink of ice against glass, but the electronic "ping" of an alert on your mobile phone advising you to self—isolate because you've recently been in contact with someone who's developed covid. in just one week this month, 600,000 people were notified by the health service app. what effect might monday's ending of restrictions have on that "pingdemic"? one which has affected borisjohnson, his chancellor, the secretary of state for health — oh, and don't forget the leader of the opposition. some people would say this is quite a brave bit of policymaking by the government, but presumably in the run—up to deciding to lift restrictions, it will have factored in the evidence coming in from scientists that there would be a third wave in the summer? you'd like

to think s0- — third wave in the summer? you'd like to think so- i — third wave in the summer? you'd like to think so. i think _ third wave in the summer? you'd like to think so. i think this _ third wave in the summer? you'd like to think so. i think this one _ third wave in the summer? you'd like to think so. i think this one is - to think so. i think this one is being driven by notjust politics, but the sense that the prime minister really wants to get the economy open. but it is an unusual thing, brave is a way of putting it, to be opening up a just the point when cases are surging, albeit from a low level. in the world is looking to britain with astonishment, but also to see what happens with this experiment which is really an experiment which is really an experiment about whether the vaccines can break the pattern of the past where enough people are vaccinated to me in the surge doesn't really take off. so vaccinated to me in the surge doesn't really take off.- vaccinated to me in the surge doesn't really take off. so in a sense, doesn't really take off. so in a sense. you — doesn't really take off. so in a sense. you can _ doesn't really take off. so in a sense, you can argue - doesn't really take off. so in a sense, you can argue that - doesn't really take off. so in a - sense, you can argue that england is, whether it intends to or not, doing the world a huge favour by providing this giant experiment on whether the system and people could withstand the delta variant? i whether the system and people could withstand the delta variant?- withstand the delta variant? i guess that's right. — withstand the delta variant? i guess that's right. i'm _ withstand the delta variant? i guess that's right, i'm not _ withstand the delta variant? i guess that's right, i'm not sure _ withstand the delta variant? i guess that's right, i'm not sure it's - withstand the delta variant? i guess that's right, i'm not sure it's an - that's right, i'm not sure it's an experiment the world is rushing to run on itself. but people are looking very closely. but you referred at the beginning to the

pingdemic, and this is where the government policy looks notjust brave, but contradictory because on the one hand it says, open up, on the one hand it says, open up, on the other hand it says, isolate yourself if you get pinged. and more and more people have been because the virus is spreading quickly at the virus is spreading quickly at the moment. yet it has this policy which is dangling as soon a 16 august where you'll be able to test yourself or get tested, and if you are free of the virus, go to work. people are saying, if you're going to do that then, just three weeks away, why not now? and there isn't really a good answer.— really a good answer. that's where this oint really a good answer. that's where this point was _ really a good answer. that's where this point was raised _ really a good answer. that's where this point was raised by _ really a good answer. that's where this point was raised by jeremy - this point was raised byjeremy hunt, the former health secretary, who said there is a danger of losing social consent if the rules kind of appear to be contradictory, people will start to lose faith in them or just ignore them altogether, which presumably is a bigger risk? it is. presumably is a bigger risk? it is, if ou presumably is a bigger risk? it is, if you remember, _ presumably is a bigger risk? it is, if you remember, that _ presumably is a bigger risk? it is, if you remember, that was - presumably is a bigger risk? it is,

if you remember, that was a - presumably is a bigger risk? it is, if you remember, that was a big concern, — if you remember, that was a big concern, when you had dominic cummings— concern, when you had dominic cummings — part of that was an experiment in gouda socially manage this. experiment in gouda socially manage this he _ experiment in gouda socially manage this. he said there was only a certain— this. he said there was only a certain amount of time that people would _ certain amount of time that people would continue to obey, i think it was about— would continue to obey, i think it was about two months. so we are back to testing _ was about two months. so we are back to testing that again, and i think we are _ to testing that again, and i think we are testing in england, in the uk ina new_ we are testing in england, in the uk ina new way, we are testing in england, in the uk in a new way, but people have been through— in a new way, but people have been through so— in a new way, but people have been through so much and have done so many— through so much and have done so many restrictions that they essentially run out of restrictions that they— essentially run out of restrictions that they still believe in. obviously there is a question of how much _ obviously there is a question of how much signalling by the government has really— much signalling by the government has really given people confidence over this — has really given people confidence overthis. one brief thing, as someone _ overthis. one brief thing, as someone who's reported a lot on what's _ someone who's reported a lot on what's happening in the rest of the world _ what's happening in the rest of the world - _ what's happening in the rest of the world - a _ what's happening in the rest of the world — a lot are saying we have to end the _ world — a lot are saying we have to end the restrictions, it's far worse having _ end the restrictions, it's far worse having those restrictions and closing — having those restrictions and closing the economy, it's a far worse — closing the economy, it's a far worse hit _ closing the economy, it's a far worse hit to everybody in all sorts of ways _ worse hit to everybody in all sorts of ways it's— worse hit to everybody in all sorts of ways. it's almost as if the uk is operating — of ways. it's almost as if the uk is operating in — of ways. it's almost as if the uk is operating in a vacuum, and that there _

operating in a vacuum, and that there aren't all these other countries around the world who are constantly— countries around the world who are constantly removing restrictions and re—imposing them — israelat constantly removing restrictions and re—imposing them — israel at the moment, — re—imposing them — israel at the moment, which was the success story in a way— moment, which was the success story in a way is _ moment, which was the success story in a way is now moving back with a much _ in a way is now moving back with a much lower— in a way is now moving back with a much lower rate to imposing a green pass on— much lower rate to imposing a green pass on where people can go, to all sorts— pass on where people can go, to all sorts of— pass on where people can go, to all sorts of restrictions and talking of making _ sorts of restrictions and talking of making those more stringent. in some of the _ making those more stringent. in some of the gutt— making those more stringent. in some of the gulf countries, we just had the haulage saudi arabia,... a lot of people — the haulage saudi arabia,... a lot of people i— the haulage saudi arabia,... a lot of people i saw online were essentially saying this is anti—islamic, these are people who were _ anti—islamic, these are people who were in_ anti—islamic, these are people who were in control of saudi arabia who were _ were in control of saudi arabia who were trying — were in control of saudi arabia who were trying to close down the haulage _ were trying to close down the haulaae. ., ., . haulage. you mentioned dominic cummings. _ haulage. you mentioned dominic cummings. we — haulage. you mentioned dominic cummings, we heard _ haulage. you mentioned dominic cummings, we heard from - haulage. you mentioned dominic cummings, we heard from him i haulage. you mentioned dominic- cummings, we heard from him again earlier this week. i wonder if you were at all impressed by his critique of the way borisjohnson governs? critique of the way boris johnson coverns? ~ ., , ., . governs? well, it was a rich critique. — governs? well, it was a rich

critique. for— governs? well, it was a rich critique, for a _ governs? well, it was a rich critique, for a start, - governs? well, it was a rich| critique, for a start, because governs? well, it was a rich - critique, for a start, because the way boris — critique, for a start, because the way borisjohnson _ critique, for a start, because the way boris johnson governs - way boris johnson governs particularly _ way boris johnson governs particularly with— way boris johnson governs particularly with regard - way boris johnson governs particularly with regard toi way boris johnson governs - particularly with regard to how the pandemic— particularly with regard to how the pandemic was— particularly with regard to how the pandemic was managed _ particularly with regard to how the pandemic was managed with - particularly with regard to how the - pandemic was managed with something very significant — pandemic was managed with something very significant lead _ pandemic was managed with something very significant lead determined - pandemic was managed with something very significant lead determined by - very significant lead determined by dominic— very significant lead determined by dominic cummings— very significant lead determined by dominic cummings himself. - very significant lead determined by dominic cummings himself. so - very significant lead determined by dominic cummings himself. so it. very significant lead determined by . dominic cummings himself. so it does seem _ dominic cummings himself. so it does seem to _ dominic cummings himself. so it does seem to he _ dominic cummings himself. so it does seem to be this— dominic cummings himself. so it does seem to be this sort— dominic cummings himself. so it does seem to be this sort of— dominic cummings himself. so it does seem to be this sort of sour— dominic cummings himself. so it does seem to be this sort of sour grapes . seem to be this sort of sour grapes and someone — seem to be this sort of sour grapes and someone who's _ seem to be this sort of sour grapes and someone who's fallen - seem to be this sort of sour grapes and someone who's fallen out - seem to be this sort of sour grapes and someone who's fallen out with| and someone who's fallen out with boris _ and someone who's fallen out with borisjohnson, _ and someone who's fallen out with borisjohnson, i— and someone who's fallen out with borisjohnson, i guess— and someone who's fallen out with borisjohnson, i guess he - and someone who's fallen out with borisjohnson, i guess he could . and someone who's fallen out with borisjohnson, i guess he could noj borisjohnson, i guess he could no longer— borisjohnson, i guess he could no longer keep— borisjohnson, i guess he could no longer keep him _ borisjohnson, i guess he could no longer keep him in— borisjohnson, i guess he could no longer keep him in line. _ borisjohnson, i guess he could no longer keep him in line. and - borisjohnson, i guess he could no longer keep him in line. and what| longer keep him in line. and what dominic— longer keep him in line. and what dominic cummings's _ longer keep him in line. and what dominic cummings's going - longer keep him in line. and what dominic cummings's going roguel longer keep him in line. and what i dominic cummings's going rogue has shown— dominic cummings's going rogue has shown us— dominic cummings's going rogue has shown us is— dominic cummings's going rogue has shown us is that _ dominic cummings's going rogue has shown us is that the _ dominic cummings's going rogue has shown us is that the narrative, - dominic cummings's going rogue has shown us is that the narrative, the i shown us is that the narrative, the suspicions— shown us is that the narrative, the suspicions about _ shown us is that the narrative, the suspicions about the _ shown us is that the narrative, the suspicions about the failures - shown us is that the narrative, the suspicions about the failures of. suspicions about the failures of government— suspicions about the failures of government from _ suspicions about the failures of government from the - suspicions about the failures of government from the start - suspicions about the failures of government from the start are| government from the start are correct — government from the start are correct so— government from the start are correct so in— government from the start are correct. so in that _ government from the start are correct. so in that sense, - government from the start are correct. so in that sense, he l government from the start are - correct. so in that sense, he didn't tell us— correct. so in that sense, he didn't tell us anything _ correct. so in that sense, he didn't tell us anything new _ correct. so in that sense, he didn't tell us anything new about - correct. so in that sense, he didn't tell us anything new about boris i tell us anything new about boris johnson's — tell us anything new about boris johnson's incompetence, - tell us anything new about boris johnson's incompetence, abouti johnson's incompetence, about confusion — johnson's incompetence, about confusion about— johnson's incompetence, about confusion about lockdown, - johnson's incompetence, about. confusion about lockdown, about johnson's incompetence, about- confusion about lockdown, about the ideological— confusion about lockdown, about the ideological resistance _ confusion about lockdown, about the ideological resistance to _ confusion about lockdown, about the ideological resistance to locking - ideological resistance to locking down _ ideological resistance to locking down even _ ideological resistance to locking down even when _ ideological resistance to locking down even when it _ ideological resistance to locking down even when it was - ideological resistance to locking i down even when it was becoming ideological resistance to locking - down even when it was becoming clear that hundreds — down even when it was becoming clear that hundreds of _ down even when it was becoming clear that hundreds of thousands _ down even when it was becoming clear that hundreds of thousands of- down even when it was becoming clear that hundreds of thousands of people i that hundreds of thousands of people would _ that hundreds of thousands of people would perish— that hundreds of thousands of people would perish - — that hundreds of thousands of people would perish - it— that hundreds of thousands of people would perish — it was— that hundreds of thousands of people would perish — it wasjust _ that hundreds of thousands of people would perish — it was just that - that hundreds of thousands of people would perish — it wasjust that it - would perish — it wasjust that it was now— would perish — it wasjust that it was now in— would perish — it wasjust that it was now in the _ would perish — it wasjust that it was now in the open— would perish — it wasjust that it was now in the open and - would perish — it wasjust that it . was now in the open and someone would perish — it wasjust that it - was now in the open and someone from within— was now in the open and someone from within the _ was now in the open and someone from within the government _ was now in the open and someone from within the government was _ was now in the open and someone from within the government was making - within the government was making those _ within the government was making those statements, _ within the government was making those statements, which— within the government was making those statements, which supportsl those statements, which supports bronwyn's — those statements, which supports bronwyn's point _ those statements, which supports bronwyn's point from _ those statements, which supports bronwyn's point from earlier- those statements, which supports bronwyn's point from earlier thatl bronwyn's point from earlier that there _ bronwyn's point from earlier that there is— bronwyn's point from earlier that

there is a — bronwyn's point from earlier that there is a fatigue _ bronwyn's point from earlier that there is a fatigue not _ bronwyn's point from earlier that there is a fatigue not only- bronwyn's point from earlier that there is a fatigue not only with l bronwyn's point from earlier that. there is a fatigue not only with the restrictions — there is a fatigue not only with the restrictions, but— there is a fatigue not only with the restrictions, but with _ there is a fatigue not only with the restrictions, but with the - there is a fatigue not only with the restrictions, but with the sense . restrictions, but with the sense that there _ restrictions, but with the sense that there isn't _ restrictions, but with the sense that there isn't really _ restrictions, but with the sense that there isn't really a - restrictions, but with the sense that there isn't really a hugely, j that there isn't really a hugely, sort of. — that there isn't really a hugely, sort of, confidence _ that there isn't really a hugely, sort of, confidence inspiring. sort of, confidence inspiring address— sort of, confidence inspiring address from _ sort of, confidence inspiring address from the _ sort of, confidence inspiring i address from the government sort of, confidence inspiring - address from the government itself and from _ address from the government itself and from people _ address from the government itself and from people who _ address from the government itself and from people who have - address from the government itself and from people who have left - and from people who have left government _ and from people who have left government. and _ and from people who have left government. and it _ and from people who have left government. and it is - and from people who have left government. and it is worth. and from people who have left - government. and it is worth noting that on— government. and it is worth noting that on the — government. and it is worth noting that on the freedom _ government. and it is worth noting that on the freedom day, - government. and it is worth noting that on the freedom day, as - government. and it is worth noting that on the freedom day, as it- government. and it is worth noting that on the freedom day, as it was called _ that on the freedom day, as it was called in _ that on the freedom day, as it was called in england, _ that on the freedom day, as it was called in england, boris— that on the freedom day, as it was called in england, borisjohnson. called in england, borisjohnson himself— called in england, borisjohnson himself was— called in england, borisjohnson himself was in _ called in england, borisjohnson himself was in isolation - called in england, borisjohnson himself was in isolation and - called in england, borisjohnsonl himself was in isolation and sajid javid, _ himself was in isolation and sajid javid, the — himself was in isolation and sajid javid, the minister— himself was in isolation and sajid javid, the minister of— himself was in isolation and sajid javid, the minister of health, - himself was in isolation and sajid javid, the minister of health, sat| javid, the minister of health, sat in isolation, _ javid, the minister of health, sat in isolation, and _ javid, the minister of health, sat in isolation, and the _ javid, the minister of health, sat in isolation, and the leader- javid, the minister of health, sat in isolation, and the leader of. javid, the minister of health, sat. in isolation, and the leader of the opposition— in isolation, and the leader of the opposition went _ in isolation, and the leader of the opposition went into _ in isolation, and the leader of the opposition went into isolation, . in isolation, and the leader of the opposition went into isolation, as| opposition went into isolation, as well because _ opposition went into isolation, as well because they _ opposition went into isolation, as well because they were _ opposition went into isolation, as well because they were also - opposition went into isolation, as . well because they were also pinged. so it does— well because they were also pinged. so it does seem _ well because they were also pinged. so it does seem that— well because they were also pinged. so it does seem that the _ well because they were also pinged. so it does seem that the narrative . so it does seem that the narrative coming _ so it does seem that the narrative coming out — so it does seem that the narrative coming out from _ so it does seem that the narrative coming out from people _ so it does seem that the narrative coming out from people leaking . so it does seem that the narrative - coming out from people leaking about how the _ coming out from people leaking about how the government _ coming out from people leaking about how the government has _ coming out from people leaking about how the government has managed - coming out from people leaking about| how the government has managed this and the _ how the government has managed this and the way— how the government has managed this and the way it— how the government has managed this and the way it is— how the government has managed this and the way it is technically _ how the government has managed this and the way it is technically and - and the way it is technically and practically— and the way it is technically and practically assembling - and the way it is technically and practically assembling to - and the way it is technically and practically assembling to how . and the way it is technically and practically assembling to how it| practically assembling to how it goes _ practically assembling to how it goes about— practically assembling to how it goes about unlocking _ practically assembling to how it goes about unlocking is - practically assembling to how it goes about unlocking is not - goes about unlocking is not inspiring _ goes about unlocking is not inspiring a _ goes about unlocking is not inspiring a lot— goes about unlocking is not inspiring a lot of— goes about unlocking is not| inspiring a lot of conference goes about unlocking is not. inspiring a lot of conference at all. inspiring a lot of conference at all -- — inspiring a lot of conference at all. —— confidence. _ inspiring a lot of conference at all. -- confidence.— inspiring a lot of conference at all. -- confidence. into the next greensill — all. -- confidence. into the next greensill affair, _ all. -- confidence. into the next greensill affair, this _ all. -- confidence. into the next greensill affair, this is _ all. -- confidence. into the next greensill affair, this is about - all. -- confidence. into the next greensill affair, this is about a l greensill affair, this is about a businessman who seems to have had a

remarkable degree of influence inside government, no one seems entirely clear how he was appointed, but he ended up employing a former minister who got his arbitration burned by lobbying on his behalf. he didn't break any rules, a committee said that was because the rules were too weak and aren't as good as they should be an effective enough. have we become a bit complacent about our model of government in this country? i think so, but it is interesting — we are in transition from the old model which was all about rules and unspoken conventions, and relying really on a club of people to keep those going, running a lot on trust. and we are in transition to a place where people have broken those rules, but also people are more sceptical that the public is more sceptical that the public is more scepticaljust because people say they are following rules that they are. so i think we are in transition

to something that is more transparent and sceptical or questioning, and needing more things written down. but what these reports showed is the really unpalatable side of that transition where if a prime minister, past or present, wants to break the rules or break the spirit of the rules, he just can — and just has. and it's really very hard to reach the sanctions for that because so little is actually codified by all this.- because so little is actually codified by all this. last thoughts on this, is this _ codified by all this. last thoughts on this, is this something - codified by all this. last thoughts on this, is this something that i codified by all this. last thoughts| on this, is this something that we need to be much more aware of in a global context? because we are quite good at lecturing other parts of the world on standards of government. yes, that's one of britain's specialities. _ yes, that's one of britain's specialities. i— yes, that's one of britain's specialities. i agree - yes, that's one of britain's specialities. i agree we - yes, that's one of britain'sj specialities. i agree we are yes, that's one of britain's . specialities. i agree we are in transition, _ specialities. i agree we are in transition, but _ specialities. i agree we are in transition, but it— specialities. i agree we are in transition, but it also - specialities. i agree we are in transition, but it also shows. specialities. i agree we are in- transition, but it also shows what happens — transition, but it also shows what happens with _ transition, but it also shows what happens with the _ transition, but it also shows what happens with the united - transition, but it also shows what happens with the united states . transition, but it also shows whatl happens with the united states as well, _ happens with the united states as well, it— happens with the united states as well, it shows _ happens with the united states as well, it shows what _ happens with the united states as well, it shows what happens - happens with the united states asj well, it shows what happens when happens with the united states as - well, it shows what happens when the sort of _ well, it shows what happens when the sort of conventions _ well, it shows what happens when the sort of conventions of— well, it shows what happens when the sort of conventions of government - sort of conventions of government that were — sort of conventions of government that were observed _ sort of conventions of government that were observed by— sort of conventions of government that were observed by a _ sort of conventions of government that were observed by a certain i sort of conventions of government l that were observed by a certain type of politician —

that were observed by a certain type of politician - — that were observed by a certain type of politician — these _ that were observed by a certain type of politician — these conventions - of politician — these conventions were _ of politician — these conventions were completely _ of politician — these conventions were completely informal, - of politician — these conventionsj were completely informal, when of politician — these conventions - were completely informal, when you -et a were completely informal, when you get a government _ were completely informal, when you get a government or— were completely informal, when you get a government or party _ were completely informal, when you get a government or party that - get a government or party that becomes— get a government or party that becomes a — get a government or party that becomes a bit _ get a government or party that becomes a bit more _ get a government or party that becomes a bit more extreme l get a government or party that. becomes a bit more extreme and positions — becomes a bit more extreme and positions itself— becomes a bit more extreme and positions itself as _ becomes a bit more extreme and positions itself as a _ becomes a bit more extreme and positions itself as a rule - becomes a bit more extreme and positions itself as a rule breakerl becomes a bit more extreme andl positions itself as a rule breaker — and the _ positions itself as a rule breaker — and the tory— positions itself as a rule breaker — and the tory party, _ positions itself as a rule breaker — and the tory party, since - positions itself as a rule breaker — and the tory party, since brexit, i and the tory party, since brexit, has positioned _ and the tory party, since brexit, has positioned itself— and the tory party, since brexit, has positioned itself as - and the tory party, since brexit, has positioned itself as a - and the tory party, since brexit, has positioned itself as a party, i and the tory party, since brexit, i has positioned itself as a party, in the case _ has positioned itself as a party, in the case of— has positioned itself as a party, in the case of dominic— has positioned itself as a party, in the case of dominic cummings - the case of dominic cummings himself. — the case of dominic cummings himself. he _ the case of dominic cummings himself, he dictated _ the case of dominic cummings himself, he dictated this - the case of dominic cummings himself, he dictated this line l the case of dominic cummingsj himself, he dictated this line — the case of dominic cummings - himself, he dictated this line — the tory party— himself, he dictated this line — the tory party is — himself, he dictated this line — the tory party is going _ himself, he dictated this line — the tory party is going to _ himself, he dictated this line — the tory party is going to shake - himself, he dictated this line — the tory party is going to shake up- tory party is going to shake up things— tory party is going to shake up things in— tory party is going to shake up things in the _ tory party is going to shake up things in the uk, _ tory party is going to shake up things in the uk, and - tory party is going to shake up things in the uk, and the - tory party is going to shake up- things in the uk, and the government had become _ things in the uk, and the government had become sort _ things in the uk, and the government had become sort of— things in the uk, and the government had become sort of corrupt _ things in the uk, and the government had become sort of corrupt in- things in the uk, and the government had become sort of corrupt in its- had become sort of corrupt in its elitism — had become sort of corrupt in its elitism so— had become sort of corrupt in its elitism. so interestingly, - had become sort of corrupt in its elitism. so interestingly, the - elitism. so interestingly, the conservative _ elitism. so interestingly, the conservative party— elitism. so interestingly, the conservative party is - elitism. so interestingly, thel conservative party is assailing these — conservative party is assailing these norms— conservative party is assailing these norms - _ conservative party is assailing these norms — and _ conservative party is assailing these norms — and also - conservative party is assailing . these norms — and also internally conservative party is assailing - these norms — and also internally in response _ these norms — and also internally in response to — these norms — and also internally in response to the _ these norms — and also internally in response to the pandemic, - these norms — and also internally in response to the pandemic, there i these norms — and also internally ini response to the pandemic, there are hu-e response to the pandemic, there are huge scandals — response to the pandemic, there are huge scandals with _ response to the pandemic, there are huge scandals with regards - response to the pandemic, there are huge scandals with regards to - huge scandals with regards to illegal— huge scandals with regards to illegal or— huge scandals with regards to illegal or irregular— huge scandals with regards to - illegal or irregular commissioning of tory— illegal or irregular commissioning of tory donors _ illegal or irregular commissioning of tory donors to _ illegal or irregular commissioning of tory donors to help _ illegal or irregular commissioning of tory donors to help with - illegal or irregular commissioning . of tory donors to help with pandemic responses _ of tory donors to help with pandemic responses giving _ of tory donors to help with pandemic responses, giving contracts- of tory donors to help with pandemic responses, giving contracts to - responses, giving contracts to produce — responses, giving contracts to produce ppe, _ responses, giving contracts to produce ppe, etc. _ responses, giving contracts to produce ppe, etc. they- responses, giving contracts to produce ppe, etc. they have i responses, giving contracts to -

produce ppe, etc. they have framed this as _ produce ppe, etc. they have framed this as a _ produce ppe, etc. they have framed this as a sort — produce ppe, etc. they have framed this as a sort of _ produce ppe, etc. they have framed this as a sort of nimble _ this as a sort of nimble and efficient— this as a sort of nimble and efficient way— this as a sort of nimble and efficient way of— this as a sort of nimble and efficient way of going - this as a sort of nimble and j efficient way of going about things, as opposed — efficient way of going about things, as opposed to — efficient way of going about things, as opposed to a _ efficient way of going about things, as opposed to a calcified, - efficient way of going about things, as opposed to a calcified, old - as opposed to a calcified, old school — as opposed to a calcified, old school way _ as opposed to a calcified, old school way of _ as opposed to a calcified, old school way of going - as opposed to a calcified, old school way of going about. as opposed to a calcified, old school way of going about it. | as opposed to a calcified, old - school way of going about it. there is two _ school way of going about it. there is two conflicting _ school way of going about it. there is two conflicting narratives, - school way of going about it. there is two conflicting narratives, and l school way of going about it. there is two conflicting narratives, and ii is two conflicting narratives, and i think— is two conflicting narratives, and i think despite _ is two conflicting narratives, and i think despite the _ is two conflicting narratives, and i think despite the intense - is two conflicting narratives, and i think despite the intense media . think despite the intense media coverage — think despite the intense media coverage of— think despite the intense media coverage of all— think despite the intense media coverage of all these _ think despite the intense media coverage of all these irregular. coverage of all these irregular contracts— coverage of all these irregular contracts and _ coverage of all these irregular contracts and david _ coverage of all these irregular| contracts and david cameron's behaviour. _ contracts and david cameron's behaviour. i_ contracts and david cameron's behaviour, ithink— contracts and david cameron's behaviour, i think the - contracts and david cameron's behaviour, i think the tory - contracts and david cameron's - behaviour, i think the tory address about— behaviour, i think the tory address about how— behaviour, i think the tory address about how they— behaviour, i think the tory address about how they are _ behaviour, i think the tory address about how they are changing - behaviour, i think the tory address about how they are changing the l behaviour, i think the tory address . about how they are changing the way that governance _ about how they are changing the way that governance works _ about how they are changing the way that governance works in _ about how they are changing the way that governance works in the - about how they are changing the way that governance works in the uk - about how they are changing the way that governance works in the uk to l that governance works in the uk to the benefit — that governance works in the uk to the benefit of— that governance works in the uk to the benefit of the _ that governance works in the uk to the benefit of the public _ that governance works in the uk to the benefit of the public is - the benefit of the public is actually _ the benefit of the public is actually cutting _ the benefit of the public is actually cutting through. l the benefit of the public is actually cutting through. thank you all very much- _ the bbc used to make a tv programme called snog, marry, avoid. it was supposed to make audiences think again about what constitutes beauty. 0urforeign policy version considers whether foreign powers should intervene — we've called it "engage, disengage, avoid". let's begin, in reverse order with "avoid". lebanon — people remember the big explosion back in the summer of last year which devastated huge parts of the city. but it seems as if

somebody has almost detonated a bomb under the financial and political systems of the country itself, it was a country that was so much shaped by the intervention, meddling, howeveryou shaped by the intervention, meddling, however you want to put it of other countries. can you summarise what's going on? yet... we are cominu summarise what's going on? yet... we are coming up — summarise what's going on? yet... we are coming up to _ summarise what's going on? yet... we are coming up to the _ summarise what's going on? yet... we are coming up to the anniversary - are coming up to the anniversary that this — are coming up to the anniversary that this happened, and the lebanese are saying _ that this happened, and the lebanese are saying that nobody has been held responsible, a prime minister resigned _ responsible, a prime minister resigned after it, a prime minister was put _ resigned after it, a prime minister was put in — resigned after it, a prime minister was put in place — a week ago he said _ was put in place — a week ago he said he _ was put in place — a week ago he said he couldn't produce a government after nine months, his paralysis— government after nine months, his paralysis is— government after nine months, his paralysis is extraordinary. in some sense, _ paralysis is extraordinary. in some sense, the — paralysis is extraordinary. in some sense, the awfulness of the explosion was almost like the whole system _ explosion was almost like the whole system for _ explosion was almost like the whole system for many people in lebanon being _ system for many people in lebanon being symbolised in that massive, almost _ being symbolised in that massive, almost nuclear blast that destroyed parts of _ almost nuclear blast that destroyed parts of beirut. and i think that's why it _ parts of beirut. and i think that's why it struck home so strongly with people. _ why it struck home so strongly with people, people who have lived or navigated — people, people who have lived or navigated through the very difficult way that _ navigated through the very difficult way that you chart your course in

lebanon — way that you chart your course in lebanon because this is a crisis that— lebanon because this is a crisis that goes— lebanon because this is a crisis that goes back years and years. 0bviously— that goes back years and years. obviously there was the civil war, there _ obviously there was the civil war, there was— obviously there was the civil war, there was an attempt to patch things up there was an attempt to patch things up after— there was an attempt to patch things up after that, the rebuilding of beirut. — up after that, the rebuilding of beirut, and attempted restructuring in a way— beirut, and attempted restructuring in a way -- — beirut, and attempted restructuring in a way —— but it never changed anything. — in a way —— but it never changed anything, the same faces were still there. _ anything, the same faces were still there. the — anything, the same faces were still there, the same dynasties were still there. _ there, the same dynasties were still there, terrible things would happen like the _ there, terrible things would happen like the killing of sir at her rare in 2005 — like the killing of sir at her rare in 2005. look at the man who's in power— in 2005. look at the man who's in power - _ in 2005. look at the man who's in power - he— in 2005. look at the man who's in power — he was at the end of the civil war— power — he was at the end of the civil war fighting a rearguard action— civil war fighting a rearguard action in— civil war fighting a rearguard action in the palace that he's now in. action in the palace that he's now in it— action in the palace that he's now in it seems— action in the palace that he's now in. it seems to be this inability of the lebanese political class to make any real— the lebanese political class to make any real concessions to each other, and that's— any real concessions to each other, and that's blocking the international community from giving the money— international community from giving the money they promised to bring in after the _ the money they promised to bring in after the blast. just very briefly, you talk— after the blast. just very briefly, you talk about go back, let's talk about— you talk about go back, let's talk about economically — for years and

years _ about economically — for years and years, lebanon survived because of the money— years, lebanon survived because of the money that was coming in for all sorts— the money that was coming in for all sorts of— the money that was coming in for all sorts of reasons, partly expatriates, partly every summer they had — expatriates, partly every summer they had a — expatriates, partly every summer they had a bonanza of tourism with people _ they had a bonanza of tourism with people coming back and putting money into the _ people coming back and putting money into the economy, but mainly the last few— into the economy, but mainly the last few years through an incredible almost _ last few years through an incredible almost ponzi scheme to deal with interest— almost ponzi scheme to deal with interest that you got on the dollar. so it brought dollars into the country — so it brought dollars into the country but at a major cost — people were _ country but at a major cost — people were essentially holding dollar accounts that were paying levels of interest _ accounts that were paying levels of interest at — accounts that were paying levels of interest at unbelievable, when credit— interest at unbelievable, when credit got called and years ago —— two years— credit got called and years ago —— two years ago, that's when protest began _ two years ago, that's when protest began and — two years ago, that's when protest began and it all came to a stop. this— began and it all came to a stop. this is— began and it all came to a stop. this is a — began and it all came to a stop. this is a country that essentially created the strange political balancing system, you had the regional powers meddling in it for years, and now nobody seems to want to get involved — are they and right to get involved — are they and right to get involved — are they and right to get to make or avoid it? i to get involved - are they and right to get to make or avoid it?- to get to make or avoid it? i don't think they — to get to make or avoid it? i don't think they are _ to get to make or avoid it? i don't think they are avoiding _ to get to make or avoid it? i don't think they are avoiding it. - to get to make or avoid it? i don't think they are avoiding it. france | think they are avoiding it. france is trying really hard to bring the political parties together, and the

world is ready to try and help if the political class can actually try and form a government. to call it a ponzi scheme is absolutely right, it's running the financial system for themselves from all this money coming in and, when things happen to like the big explosion, they've determined to deterred the lebanese from sending their money back to lebanon, things started to fall down. it's an extraordinary case of implosion not from war, but from really terrible government. but i think other governments, more stable governments around the world would be very willing to help if, you know, the political parts of lebanon could do the very basics, which is form a government. ads, could do the very basics, which is form a government.— could do the very basics, which is form a government. a very big if? even though _ form a government. a very big if? even though it's _ form a government. a very big if? even though it's not _ form a government. a very big if? even though it's not related - form a government. a very big if? even though it's not related to - even though it's not related to war, the war— even though it's not related to war, the war casts — even though it's not related to war, the war casts quite _ even though it's not related to war, the war casts quite a _ even though it's not related to war, the war casts quite a long -

even though it's not related to war, the war casts quite a long shadow. i the war casts quite a long shadow. one of— the war casts quite a long shadow. one of the — the war casts quite a long shadow. one of the reasons _ the war casts quite a long shadow. one of the reasons that _ the war casts quite a long shadow. one of the reasons that the - one of the reasons that the political— one of the reasons that the political party _ one of the reasons that the political party class - one of the reasons that the political party class in - one of the reasons that the i political party class in lebanon one of the reasons that the - political party class in lebanon is so stochm — political party class in lebanon is so stochm so _ political party class in lebanon is so stoch... so every _ political party class in lebanon is so stoch... so every kind - political party class in lebanon is so stoch... so every kind of- so stoch... so every kind of religious— so stoch... so every kind of religious group— so stoch... so every kind of religious group or— so stoch... so every kind of religious group or sect - so stoch... so every kind of religious group or sect is i religious group or sect is ghettoized _ religious group or sect is ghettoized both - religious group or sect is ghettoized both in - religious group or sect is ghettoized both in its - religious group or sect is - ghettoized both in its political power — ghettoized both in its political power and _ ghettoized both in its political power and almost _ ghettoized both in its political. power and almost geographically ghettoized both in its political- power and almost geographically and physically— power and almost geographically and physically across _ power and almost geographically and physically across lebanon. _ power and almost geographically and physically across lebanon. and - physically across lebanon. and there's— physically across lebanon. and there's also _ physically across lebanon. and there's also a _ physically across lebanon. and there's also a sort _ physically across lebanon. and there's also a sort of— physically across lebanon. and there's also a sort of long—taill physically across lebanon. and i there's also a sort of long—tail of long _ there's also a sort of long—tail of long civil— there's also a sort of long—tail of long civil wars _ there's also a sort of long—tail of long civil wars that _ there's also a sort of long—tail of long civil wars that if— there's also a sort of long—tail of long civil wars that if they - there's also a sort of long—tail of long civil wars that if they don't i long civil wars that if they don't fundamentally— long civil wars that if they don't fundamentally change - long civil wars that if they don't fundamentally change the - long civil wars that if they don't i fundamentally change the power structure — fundamentally change the power structure of _ fundamentally change the power structure of the _ fundamentally change the power structure of the country, - fundamentally change the power structure of the country, they. fundamentally change the powerl structure of the country, they can stillm _ structure of the country, they can stillm and — structure of the country, they can stillm and the _ structure of the country, they can still... and the economic- structure of the country, they can still... and the economic crisis i still... and the economic crisis does _ still... and the economic crisis does happen, _ still... and the economic crisis does happen, they— still... and the economic crisis does happen, they are - still... and the economic crisis does happen, they are still- still... and the economic crisis i does happen, they are still stuck still... and the economic crisis - does happen, they are still stuck in politics— does happen, they are still stuck in politics of— does happen, they are still stuck in politics of conflict _ does happen, they are still stuck in politics of conflict that _ does happen, they are still stuck in politics of conflict that have - does happen, they are still stuck in politics of conflict that have not - politics of conflict that have not really _ politics of conflict that have not really been _ politics of conflict that have not really been resolved _ politics of conflict that have not really been resolved so - politics of conflict that have not really been resolved so they. politics of conflict that have not| really been resolved so they can make _ really been resolved so they can make a — really been resolved so they can make a clean _ really been resolved so they can make a clean break— really been resolved so they can make a clean break from - really been resolved so they can make a clean break from the - really been resolved so they can . make a clean break from the past. let's _ make a clean break from the past. let's talk— make a clean break from the past. let's talk about _ make a clean break from the past. let's talk about another— make a clean break from the past. let's talk about another country. let's talk about another country that we are now seeing the world try to disengage from, which might be easier said than done, and that's afghanistan. do you think the tele—

band is serious about peace talks? 0r band is serious about peace talks? or is this just a tactical interest in peace while it slowly strangles the cities by doing things like taking the borders by securing more and more control over large parts of the country? —— taliban. dodd i'll go with that one. it's hard to peace talks go with that one. it's hard to peace tal - ., , , ., ~' go with that one. it's hard to peace tal ., , , ,. talks when one side is making such cadence day _ talks when one side is making such cadence day by _ talks when one side is making such cadence day by day, _ talks when one side is making such cadence day by day, week- talks when one side is making such cadence day by day, week by - talks when one side is making such cadence day by day, week by week| talks when one side is making such i cadence day by day, week by week as the taliban now is. that doesn't mean it's absently impossible, they have a deal, they may be less strong and capable of holding onto cities at they capture any —— absolutely possible. but they are on a roll at the moment, and that is a very hard time to do a deal. but the neighbours are serious. iran, is pakistan, probably pakistan with a bit of british encouragement are serious about not wanting an implosion or civil war within afghanistan —— whose pakistan, and

are capable of bringing some pressure on the taliban to at least take part in talks. it'll be very hard to make that stick until they run out of steam. 50 hard to make that stick until they run out of steam.— run out of steam. so it's rational for whatever _ run out of steam. so it's rational for whatever criticism _ run out of steam. so it's rational for whatever criticism there - run out of steam. so it's rational. for whatever criticism there might be from washington and other countries for neighbours like pakistan, like took minna stan, like iran to make nice with the taliban if they think they'll be running the country in a few months�* time? if they think they�*ll be running the country in a few months�* time? —— turkmenistan. if country in a few months' time? -- turkmenistan.— turkmenistan. if they feel there is auoin to turkmenistan. if they feel there is going to be _ turkmenistan. if they feel there is going to be a _ turkmenistan. if they feel there is going to be a surge _ turkmenistan. if they feel there is going to be a surge and _ turkmenistan. if they feel there is going to be a surge and that - turkmenistan. if they feel there is i going to be a surge and that taliban will be _ going to be a surge and that taliban will be the _ going to be a surge and that taliban will be the main _ going to be a surge and that taliban will be the main party— going to be a surge and that taliban will be the main party of— going to be a surge and that taliban will be the main party of power - going to be a surge and that taliban will be the main party of power — i will be the main party of power — i'm will be the main party of power — i'm not— will be the main party of power — i'm not power— will be the main party of power — i'm not power the _ will be the main party of power — i'm not power the macro - will be the main party of power — i i'm not power the macro confident this influence _ i'm not power the macro confident this influence from _ i'm not power the macro confident this influence from neighbours- i'm not power the macro confident this influence from neighbours toi this influence from neighbours to -et this influence from neighbours to get peace — this influence from neighbours to get peace talks _ this influence from neighbours to get peace talks to _ this influence from neighbours to get peace talks to force - this influence from neighbours to get peace talks to force a - get peace talks to force a resolution _ get peace talks to force a resolution will— get peace talks to force a resolution will hold, - get peace talks to force a resolution will hold, the i get peace talks to force a - resolution will hold, the taliban make _ resolution will hold, the taliban make serious— resolution will hold, the taliban make serious gains— resolution will hold, the taliban make serious gains because - resolution will hold, the taliban make serious gains because ofl resolution will hold, the taliban i make serious gains because of the interests _ make serious gains because of the interests of — make serious gains because of the interests of its _ make serious gains because of the interests of its neighbours - make serious gains because of the interests of its neighbours not - make serious gains because of the interests of its neighbours not to i interests of its neighbours not to start _ interests of its neighbours not to start a _

interests of its neighbours not to start a relationship _ interests of its neighbours not to start a relationship in _ interests of its neighbours not to start a relationship in this - interests of its neighbours not to start a relationship in this new. start a relationship in this new post— start a relationship in this new post us — start a relationship in this new post us withdrawal— start a relationship in this new post us withdrawal in - start a relationship in this new post us withdrawal in the - start a relationship in this new. post us withdrawal in the night, start a relationship in this new- post us withdrawal in the night, as conflicting — post us withdrawal in the night, as conflicting protagonists. _ post us withdrawal in the night, as conflicting protagonists. so - post us withdrawal in the night, as conflicting protagonists. so i - conflicting protagonists. sol agree~ — conflicting protagonists. so i auree. �* , conflicting protagonists. so i auree. h . ~' conflicting protagonists. so i auree. h ., ~ ., agree. let's talk about the third one in what _ agree. let's talk about the third one in what i — agree. let's talk about the third one in what i call— agree. let's talk about the third one in what i call the _ agree. let's talk about the third one in what i call the trifecta . agree. let's talk about the third one in what i call the trifecta - i one in what i call the trifecta — that was disengage, engage is iran. and clearly the world is engaging with iran. what are the prospects by which there will be a new, regarded as being more hard—line president in tehran? does that matter? i as being more hard-line president in tehran? does that matter?— tehran? does that matter? i don't think it matters _ tehran? does that matter? i don't think it matters as _ tehran? does that matter? i don't think it matters as much. - think it matters as much. essentially the shots are called by the supreme leader ivan in a sense, not having _ the supreme leader ivan in a sense, not having that dichotomy between a more moderate reformist who was the architect— more moderate reformist who was the architect of— more moderate reformist who was the architect of the iranian side of the 2015 nuclear deal. in a sense, it makes — 2015 nuclear deal. in a sense, it makes it— 2015 nuclear deal. in a sense, it makes it less complex and clear that the line _ makes it less complex and clear that the line is— makes it less complex and clear that the line is there. sol

makes it less complex and clear that the line is there. so i think what matters — the line is there. so i think what matters is — the line is there. so i think what matters is that two people who aren't — matters is that two people who aren't there any more, donald trump in the _ aren't there any more, donald trump in the us, _ aren't there any more, donald trump in the us, his— aren't there any more, donald trump in the us, his policy of maximum pressure — in the us, his policy of maximum pressure backed up by his administration brought us to essentially where we are, brought the reflex — essentially where we are, brought the reflex action from iran as it has more — the reflex action from iran as it has more and more from the deal. with the _ has more and more from the deal. with the biting administration being in a slight _ with the biting administration being in a slight quandary over where it goes. _ in a slight quandary over where it goes in — in a slight quandary over where it goes, in eight mexican standoff with the iranians, that is still a defining _ the iranians, that is still a defining feature. and benjamin that yahoo— defining feature. and benjamin that yahoo has— defining feature. and benjamin that yahoo has gone, who was a major voice _ yahoo has gone, who was a major voice since — yahoo has gone, who was a major voice since forever —— benjamin netanyahu _ voice since forever —— benjamin netanyahu. he was saying exactly the same things in the 19705 about iran then as _ same things in the 19705 about iran then as he — same things in the 19705 about iran then as he has been saying the past few years _ then as he has been saying the past few years. there's been a change in the attitude — few years. there's been a change in the attitude but it's less of a major— the attitude but it's less of a major issue for the political cla55 major issue for the political class there _ major issue for the political class there. you'll also see the other major— there. you'll also see the other major pu5h again5t there. you'll also see the other major pu5h against any kind of

agreement, saudi arabia, which had hu-e agreement, saudi arabia, which had huge influence during donald trump, i5 huge influence during donald trump, is also _ huge influence during donald trump, is also beginning to change for a variety— is also beginning to change for a variety of— is also beginning to change for a variety of reasons. but it's finding a way— variety of reasons. but it's finding a way to— variety of reasons. but it's finding a way to look to live with iran again— a way to look to live with iran again rather than direct hostility. so that— again rather than direct hostility. so that pressure is gone, but diplomatically, we've had six runs so far— diplomatically, we've had six runs so far - _ diplomatically, we've had six runs so far - i've — diplomatically, we've had six runs so far — i've been reporting that everyone — so far — i've been reporting that everyone is— so far — i've been reporting that everyone is thinking the timetable is up until— everyone is thinking the timetable is up until the election, which gives— is up until the election, which gives you _ is up until the election, which gives you a chance where rani i5 gives you a chance where rani is still there _ gives you a chance where rani is still there. that went, then there was 5till there. that went, then there was talk— 5till there. that went, then there was talk of— still there. that went, then there was talk of the incoming president to do— was talk of the incoming president to do it _ was talk of the incoming president to do it. now we've had variou5 officials — to do it. now we've had variou5 officials in _ to do it. now we've had variou5 officials in iran 5aying to do it. now we've had variou5 officials in iran saying we won't do anything _ officials in iran saying we won't do anything until the new president comes— anything until the new president comes in. — anything until the new president comes in, it's the new administration's position. despite all the _ administration's position. despite all the rhetoric, despite all the pressures, it still looks like a pre55ure5, it still looks like a deal— pre55ure5, it still looks like a deal is — pre55ure5, it still looks like a deal is essentially there, it's been pretty— deal is essentially there, it's been pretty much agreed. but who will actually— pretty much agreed. but who will actually get it over the line and commit — actually get it over the line and commit to— actually get it over the line and commit to it is still a big question. the one thing that could que5tion. the one thing that could really— question. the one thing that could really change that is from the

iranian— really change that is from the iranian put5 of saying, "under a new president. _ iranian put5 of saying, "under a new president, we are thinking that that deal pre5ident, we are thinking that that deal back— president, we are thinking that that deal back in 2015 i5n't president, we are thinking that that deal back in 2015 isn't the deal that we — deal back in 2015 isn't the deal that we really want. we want to have more _ that we really want. we want to have more wiggle room about a whole variety _ more wiggle room about a whole variety of — more wiggle room about a whole variety of conditions." if that happens _ variety of conditions." if that happens, than it could all di55ipate. i would say at the moment, _ di55ipate. i would say at the moment, the betting i5 di55ipate. i would say at the moment, the betting is still that a deal will— moment, the betting is still that a deal will be done because it is in both— deal will be done because it is in both 5ide5'5 intere5t, deal will be done because it is in both 5ide5'5 interest, the us and iram _ both sides's interest, the us and iran. . �* , . both sides's interest, the us and iran. ., �*, ., �*, ., both sides's interest, the us and iran. ., iran. that's iran. there's a chance now for each _ iran. that's iran. there's a chance now for each of _ iran. that's iran. there's a chance now for each of you _ iran. that's iran. there's a chance now for each of you to _ iran. that's iran. there's a chance now for each of you to tell - iran. that's iran. there's a chance | now for each of you to tell us about a story that hasn�*t had as much attention as it should have, or it�*s attention as it should have, or it�*s a story we haven�*t been as serious as we should be as people are interested in what�*s happening around us in the world. first of all with you? i�*d around us in the world. first of all with ou? �* ~' ., around us in the world. first of all with ou? �* ,, ., ., with you? i'd like to mention the guardian's _ with you? i'd like to mention the guardian's investigation - with you? i'd like to mention the guardian's investigation into - with you? i'd like to mention the guardian's investigation into the | guardian'5 investigation into the pegasus— guardian's investigation into the pegasus phone _ guardian's investigation into the pega5u5 phone acting _ guardian's investigation into the pega5u5 phone acting fla5h - guardian's investigation into the i pega5u5 phone acting fla5h spying hacking _ pegasus phone acting flash spying hacking i— pegasus phone acting flash spying hacking. ithink— pegasus phone acting flash spying hacking. i think it's— pegasus phone acting flash spying hacking. i think it's absently - hacking. i think it's absently staggering. _ hacking. i think it's absently staggering. the _ hacking. i think it's absently staggering, the number- hacking. i think it's absently staggering, the number of. hacking. i think it's absently - staggering, the number of people

whose _ staggering, the number of people whose phones— staggering, the number of people whose phones have _ staggering, the number of people whose phones have been - staggering, the number of people - whose phones have been compromised both in— whose phones have been compromised both in the _ whose phones have been compromised both in the media _ whose phones have been compromised both in the media and _ whose phones have been compromised both in the media and in _ whose phones have been compromised both in the media and in politics, - both in the media and in politics, the threat — both in the media and in politics, the threat that _ both in the media and in politics, the threat that this _ both in the media and in politics, the threat that this presents - both in the media and in politics, the threat that this presents to i the threat that this presents to media — the threat that this presents to media freedom _ the threat that this presents to media freedom and _ the threat that this presents to media freedom and to - the threat that this presents to media freedom and to political| media freedom and to political freedom — media freedom and to political freedom across _ media freedom and to political freedom across the _ media freedom and to political freedom across the world - media freedom and to political freedom across the world is i media freedom and to political. freedom across the world is one issue _ freedom across the world is one issue at— freedom across the world is one issue at the _ freedom across the world is one issue. at the second _ freedom across the world is one issue. at the second issue - freedom across the world is one issue. at the second issue is- freedom across the world is one | issue. at the second issue is the ubiquity— issue. at the second issue is the ubiquity of— issue. at the second issue is the ubiquity of these _ issue. at the second issue is the ubiquity of these espionage - issue. at the second issue is the - ubiquity of these espionage systems and software. — ubiquity of these espionage systems and software, and _ ubiquity of these espionage systems and software, and the _ ubiquity of these espionage systems and software, and the penetration . and software, and the penetration that they— and software, and the penetration that they have _ and software, and the penetration that they have is _ and software, and the penetration that they have is i— and software, and the penetration that they have is i don't— and software, and the penetration that they have is i don't think- that they have is i don't think something _ that they have is i don't think something we've _ that they have is i don't think something we've reckoned i that they have is i don't think. something we've reckoned with. that they have is i don't think- something we've reckoned with. and the pegasus— something we've reckoned with. and the pegasus investigation— something we've reckoned with. and the pegasus investigation has- the pegasus investigation has mentioned _ the pegasus investigation has mentioned 50,000 _ the pegasus investigation has- mentioned 50,000 compromised the pegasus investigation has— mentioned 50,000 compromised devices — but mentioned 50,000 compromised devices - but that's— mentioned 50,000 compromised devices - but that'siust_ mentioned 50,000 compromised devices — but that's just what _ mentioned 50,000 compromised devices — but that's just what we _ mentioned 50,000 compromised devices — but that's just what we know _ mentioned 50,000 compromised devices — but that's just what we know at - — but that's just what we know at the moment— — but that's just what we know at the moment and, _ — but that's just what we know at the moment and, having - — but that's just what we know at the moment and, having lookedl — but that's just what we know at. the moment and, having looked into it further, _ the moment and, having looked into it further, there _ the moment and, having looked into it further, there so _ the moment and, having looked into it further, there so many— the moment and, having looked into it further, there so many loopholes. it further, there so many loopholes even _ it further, there so many loopholes even in _ it further, there so many loopholes even in our— it further, there so many loopholes even in our own— it further, there so many loopholes even in our own devices— it further, there so many loopholes even in our own devices as - even in our own devices as individuals— even in our own devices as individuals that _ even in our own devices as individuals that can - even in our own devices as individuals that can be - even in our own devices asl individuals that can be used even in our own devices as - individuals that can be used for all sorts— individuals that can be used for all sorts of— individuals that can be used for all sorts of reasons. _ individuals that can be used for all sorts of reasons. i— individuals that can be used for all sorts of reasons. i think _ individuals that can be used for all sorts of reasons. i think this - individuals that can be used for all sorts of reasons. i think this is- sorts of reasons. i think this is the next — sorts of reasons. i think this is the next frontier— sorts of reasons. i think this is the next frontier in _ sorts of reasons. i think this is the next frontier in both - sorts of reasons. i think this is. the next frontier in both personal privacy— the next frontier in both personal privacy and — the next frontier in both personal privacy and also _ the next frontier in both personal privacy and also medium - the next frontier in both personal| privacy and also medium freedom the next frontier in both personal- privacy and also medium freedom ——

media _ privacy and also medium freedom —— media freedom. _ privacy and also medium freedom —— media freedom, as— privacy and also medium freedom —— media freedom, as well. _ privacy and also medium freedom -- media freedom, as well.— privacy and also medium freedom -- media freedom, as well. always check our media freedom, as well. always check your settings — media freedom, as well. always check your settings. bronwyn? _ media freedom, as well. always check your settings. bronwyn? i— media freedom, as well. always check your settings. bronwyn? i think- media freedom, as well. always check your settings. bronwyn? i think the i your settings. bronwyn? i think the next frontier _ your settings. bronwyn? i think the next frontier and _ your settings. bronwyn? i think the next frontier and where _ your settings. bronwyn? i think the next frontier and where corruption l next frontier and where corruption is taking place in britain is local government. and it�*s for one general reason that local government has been under enormous pressure. we�*ve got a lot of money that comes up against it in planning, developers and so on, and you�*ve got councils really wriggling to try to work out how to get more money because they aren�*t getting it from central government, so their buying property in the high streets and so on. some of that will have turned out to be a bit dodgy. there isn�*t quite the scrutiny there used to be, there was something called the audit commission, now consuls can essentially pick their own auditors desk councils. 0ut essentially pick their own auditors desk councils. out of desperation, i think we will see more scandals with �*|_ think we will see more scandals with 1— does like high—profile ones like liverpool. 1- does like high-profile ones like liverool. a, .,

1- does like high-profile ones like liverool. ., ., ;;:: liverpool. more to come? you have 30 seconds. liverpool. more to come? you have 30 seconds- in — liverpool. more to come? you have 30 seconds. in morocco _ liverpool. more to come? you have 30 seconds. in morocco at _ liverpool. more to come? you have 30 seconds. in morocco at the _ liverpool. more to come? you have 30 seconds. in morocco at the moment, i seconds. in morocco at the moment, three journalists _ seconds. in morocco at the moment, three journalists this _ seconds. in morocco at the moment, three journalists this month - seconds. in morocco at the moment, three journalists this month have - three journalists this month have been _ three journalists this month have been sentenced to long time injail for independent investigators. i remember back in morocco a decade a-o, remember back in morocco a decade ago. one _ remember back in morocco a decade ago. one of— remember back in morocco a decade ago, one of the most heartening things— ago, one of the most heartening things was— ago, one of the most heartening things was the media environment developing — these people are now in 'ail, developing — these people are now in jail. which _ developing — these people are now in jail. which is — developing — these people are now in jail, which is a real issue, and they— jail, which is a real issue, and they are — jail, which is a real issue, and they are notjust jail, which is a real issue, and they are not just using jail, which is a real issue, and they are notjust using spying, which — they are notjust using spying, which makes it more difficult to fight _ which makes it more difficult to fight for— which makes it more difficult to fight for them, saying that they are guilty— fight for them, saying that they are guilty of— fight for them, saying that they are guilty of sexual assault, that's trumped — guilty of sexual assault, that's trumped up. guilty of sexual assault, that's trumped up— guilty of sexual assault, that's trumped up. thank you all very delicate much. _ that�*s it for dateline london for this week. we�*re back next week at the same time.

good evening. well, northern ireland saw temperatures up around 30 celsius once again today. further south, the storm clouds were gathering, and that sets us up for the weekend. a cooler feel to the weather, with some really intense downpours for some of us. now, a lot to look at on this satellite picture. this beautiful swirl of low cloud in the north sea, that�*s been turning things quite murky for some north—eastern coasts. these clouds to the south—west are the storm clouds. we�*ve had a lot of lightning from these clouds as they�*ve been approaching our shores, and through this evening and tonight, this rain, this thundery rain will push in across southern counties of england, getting into the far south of wales, too. at the same time, this mist and murk and low cloud will once again roll in across north east scotland, the eastern side of england on what will be another pretty warm night.

but as we head into tomorrow, this area of low pressure will dominate the scene across the southern half of the uk. where you�*re close to the centre of this low, you can expect some really intense downpours and thunderstorms. across southern parts of england and south wales especially, there is the risk of flooding and transport disruption. now, it won�*t be raining all the time. there will be some gaps, some bright or sunny spells between the downpours. but where the showers do show up, they could give you a lot of rain in a short space of time, with frequent lightning and some rather gusty winds. this mist and murk and low cloud will cling to some of the north sea coasts. but for north wales, north west england, nothern ireland and a good part of scotland, we�*ll see some sunshine and still some warmth through tomorrow afternoon, with highs of around 26 celsius. the showers and storms, though, in the south will continue to rumble around for a time during saturday evening. and as we get into the second half of the weekend, our area of low pressure will still be with us. it�*ll lumber perhaps just a little further eastwards, so that�*s going to focus the showers

and thunderstorms across south—eastern parts of the uk, especially through east anglia, parts of south east england, maybe the south west and parts of the midlands as well. some further heavy and potentially disruptive thundery downpours. further north and west, drier, brighter with quite a lot of sunshine, but temperatures lower than they have been recently, between 20—24 celsius in most places. and as we head into next week, things will continue to turn cooler. we�*ll see some further rain at times. some of that rain will be heavy and thundery, but with some drier, brighter spells in between.

this is bbc news with the headlines. the sky over the stadium exploded with colour as fireworks marked the start of the games. in a pared back — covid safe — ceremony, small groups of athletes from more than 200 countries marched in the teams�* parade in other news: the us denies a change in policy as it bombs taliban positions in afghanistan. we get the story behind the soaring price of the beans in your coffee, a clue: it�*s not covid and i talk to the supermodel who�*s given up her career, saying it�*s incompatible with her muslim faith.