this is bbc news. we will have all the headlines and all the main news stories for you at the top of the hour as newsday continues straight after hard talk. welcome to hardtalk i'm stephen sackur. canada's treatment of its indigenous people over hundreds of years is a dark and spreading stain on the country's reputation. in the last few months, the unmarked graves of hundreds of indigenous children have been discovered in the grounds of residential schools, which became notorious for racism, neglect and abuse.

my guest is roseanne archibald, newly elected chief of canada's assembly of first nations. canada's leaders have promised truth and reconciliation for years. when will they mean it? roseanne archibald in the taykwa tagamou nation territory in canada, welcome to hardtalk. hi, stephen. how are you? i am well. i am also shocked,

to be honest. over recent weeks and months, i've been shocked to learn about the scale of discovery of unmarked graves of children around a number of residential schools on canadian territory. the numbers go from the hundreds, even beyond 1,000 of new unmarked graves. are you as shocked as people outside your community and outside canada? the number is actually over 1,600 now, and we don't call them discoveries, because first nations people have always known about these unmarked graves. these are the recovery of our little children. it's a recovery process. and certainly from our view, these are crime scenes. this ground—penetrating radar that's being used is revealing evidence and hard proof that crimes have been committed against first nation people.

these institutions, you know, they weren't schools, and everybody calls them schools, but they were institutions of assimilation and genocide. and now we're beginning to see the truth of what these institutions did to our people. explain that to me, if you can, because, as you say, the outside world, indeed the canadian government always has referred to them over the last century and a half as schools. you've just used that word genocide, one of the most horrifying words in the language. so explain to me why, in your view, these shouldn't be called schools, and what exactly happened in them. the survivors that i've heard speak, talk about the horrors of these places, that they were abused, that they were sexually abused, that they were forbidden

from speaking their language, they were forbidden for having any ceremonies, any traditional processes. so these were very clearly institutions of assimilation and genocide. but to be clear, roseanne, sorry to interrupt, but this is very important, that they were not deliberately exterminating first nations children over the course of a century and a half, were they? this wasn't designed to kill. oh, it was designed to kill, and we're seeing proof of that. 1,600 little children, little ones, innocent children have been recovered so far. by the time that this process is done, we've only... we're only talking about eight of these institutions so far. there were 139 recognised institutions across canada.

there were a total of 1,300 institutions, in total. so we're going to be into the thousands upon ten thousands of children found. i am not sure how you can say that that's not intentional and that the recovery of so many little children doesn't signify what it is, which is genocide. the un calls it genocide. we call it genocide. to be clear, the parents of the little ones who were put in these institutions, they had absolutely no say or choice in the matter. these were children forcibly removed from their families. that's right. often it was the rcmp, or what was known as the indian agent, who would go into communities and they would threaten parents with jail time, with other kinds of threats to ensure that these children were forcibly removed and taken to these institutions.

should all of the burial grounds... you say that this is no surprise to you and that this is not discovery, it's recovery of bodies of missing young ones who have been known about in your communities for many years. but should every single body be exhumed and forensically analysed, in your view? because i know some first nations people have said, "we need to know where the bodies are, but it does us, "frankly, no real good to bring all these bodies up. "we should give them the respect of marking "where they lie and remembering them, but not necessarily "digging everybody up." there are survivors who are being traumatised, they're being re—traumatised right now by what is happening. there are at least three to four healing walks that

are happening across canada right now, led by survivors who arejust, you know, they've been triggered into their grief and they want to do something about it. now, i've heard one survivor, so far, say that those bodies need to stay where they are. at the same time, these are crime scenes. that's the bottom line. you do not bury a body in an unmarked grave. that is considered a crime in canada, and these crimes have to be investigated. in fact, i brought this up to the prime minister when i talked to him briefly. i brought it up with the attorney general of canada, that we need an independent rapporteur. the chiefs across canada are calling for that, and we're making some headway on that. so, i know that people are very sensitive to the situation around these little children. i mean, these children were loved. these children were cared for. and the idea of exhuming,

i think, can re—traumatise some survivors. you mentioned one individual. i don't know if you're referring to evelyn camille, but evelyn has... yeah. yeah, she has said, and this is for you to respond to personally, because you now hold a very important position, representing the first nations assembly. she, evelyn, said this. "what good are all of these...?" she meant exhumations and forensic analyses. "what good are they going to do for us, "for an individual, for me? it's good to tell me, yes, "that these children were murdered, "but does that really make me feel better? i don't think so, "and i think the remains should be left undisturbed." what is your message to her? well, i'm not going to give her a message through bbc, first of all, but i do want to say that these are crime scenes, and crimes have to be investigated, and the purpose of investigating a crime is to bring justice to the victims.

that's an important part of this journey. the other important part of this is reparations for first nation communities. as you know, there have been individual settlements... clears throat excuse me. ..with survivors, but you can see how deep this trauma runs in our communities. there's intergenerational trauma that's resulting from these institutions of assimilation and genocide. and the canadian government, the catholic church and all churches who were involved have to be a part of those reparations and that justice to our people. it's not enough to say, "we have recovered these bodies." that's not the end of the road. justice must... justice must be served. crime scenes and justice — these are words which also, of course, imply criminals and criminality, and then an individual accounting. are you expecting that there

will be people identified, brought to justice and punished for what happened? because we're not talking about something in the distant past. yes, this goes back well over a century, but these institutions, as you put it, were still operating just decades ago. so there are still many people alive who worked in them, and do you want some of them, if not all of them, to be brought before a court? yeah, we are looking at actually bringing this forth to the international criminal court. that's a part of the resolution, one of the resolutions that has been passed by the chiefs across canada. and it is about individual justice, these people who did perpetrate these crimes. it's also about the canadian government and those colonial policies that led to this genocide. it's also about the religious institutions that

participated in the genocide. everybody who is connected to this must be brought to justice. it's not just about individual justice. it's about the institutions that created this harm and this destruction of first nations people and indigenous people in canada. chief bobby cameron, another leading voice in the first nations, sort of, political world, who demanded a full accounting and a full apology from the head of the catholic church — mr cameron himself is a catholic — he said, "if i don't get that, "i'll renounce my catholicism, my catholic church religion." and he's talking about an apology from the pope. do you think that is important, and do many first nations people feel like bobby cameron? the pope has to come to canada, that's one of the calls under the trc — the truth and reconciliation

commission. he has to come to canada to offer that apology. i know that they're planning a trip to the vatican sometime in december, and i will not go to the vatican, because i believe that the pope must come to this country and apologise on the soil of the people that have been harmed, that have been killed, that have been the subject of genocide, and that his church has been a part of. now, in terms of the people renouncing their religion, those are things that each individual has to decide on where they're going to go, and if regional chief bobby cameron is taking that route, then that's certainly his individual choice to do that. let's talk about the canadian government. justin trudeau, prime minister of canada, came to power saying that he was going to commit to a new relationship with the first nations

peoples of canada. he was going to work in partnership. he was going to treat you with the respect deserving of nations. has he delivered ? in some ways. the federal government has created additional funding. i would say that they have worked on certain files and made some progress where we were far behind, particularly around clean drinking water and now looking forward to increased infrastructure funding. so there has been, i would say, some progress made with this government, and certainly far more progress than the previous government. so i acknowledge that with prime minister trudeau and his cabinet. do we have a long way to go? absolutely. we are at the beginning of this journey, and what's really important about reconciliation is what many people have said,

that there must be truth before reconciliation. people in canada and around the world need to know what has happened to first nation and indigenous people here, and we are asking the world now, through this programme, to stand with us, to support us, to hear us, to be a part of these solutions, and to call on their own governments and the canadian government — particularly the uk, which has the strong relationship through the crown to canada. you know, we really need people to stand with us at this time. justin trudeau said, as more and more was learned about the discovery of these burial grounds of young children, he said, "the hurt and trauma that you as first nations "people feel is canada's responsibility today." and he said, "canadians, all canadians, are horrified and "ashamed of how our country behaved." do you think that's

really true? do you think, as a whole, canadians are horrified and ashamed? i wouldn't use those words. i'd say they are definitely horrified, because they're shocked at what they're discovering for the first time. i really feel that our allies across canada are standing with us in a very strong way, for the first time in many, many, many decades. and this is really an important time for us to stand shoulder—to—shoulder, to address these issues. it's not enough just to feel these feelings. we must translate all of this grief, all of these emotions into action. and a big part of that action is reparations to first nation communities and first nation people for what has been done to us. we have said this for many, many years, that, especially through the trc process, that this was genocide,

and people are now beginning to see that that is the truth. and so we need to stand together, for certain, and make sure that action is taken. it's not enough to just sit back and say, "oh, that's a terrible thing that happened." what every canadian and every citizen of the world needs to say is, "what can i do about this? "what can i...? how can i affect this in a positive way?" and i believe that we're on that path now. when you use the word "reparations", i think of, sort of, financial compensation, but surely there are other structural issues that need addressing as well. i'm thinking about everything from the terrible economic figures which suggest deep inequality in canada, where first nations peoples are much less likely to have a job, they're much less likely to have a decent standard of living. you mentioned drinking water. they're much less likely to have access to decent public services. they're also, frankly,

more likely to experience racist policing. all the figures suggest that, too. so, in all of these different structural and systemic ways, surely it goes much deeper than just reparations and finance. yeah, absolutely. reparations encompasses a lot of processes, and you've hit on the key ones, which is colonialism and the negative detrimental impact colonialism has had on our people, particularly colonial policies. and a big part of colonial policies was to take first nations from all of the land that we have inhabited from time immemorial and to places on these little tiny postage stamps of land and telling us that we don't have any rights outside of that. and so that's a part of reparations, is to give land back, to ensure that first nations are benefiting from the resources around them, from the development around

them. that's one form of reparations. decolonising the processes, dealing with things like overt racism, hatred, systemic racism. that's a part of reparations, because that's what underlies the issues that we have seen for many years in canada, is that first nations have been viewed, because they've been... because first nations people have been not the... 0ur his... 0ur true history and herstory has not been taught in schools, and so people don't understand that we are human beings like everybody else, that we deserve to be treated with dignity and respect, that we are worthy, and that is systemic racism. i'm just wondering how you can have a real political impact in mainstream canada. just to take one example, you have told your people that your...

one of your key priorities will be tackling the inequality of impact of climate change, where your argument is that first nations people are being much more badly impacted by the effects of climate change than pretty much anybody else in canada, pretty much anybody else in the rest of the world, because of the impact it's having on food supplies in the northern regions, on the way it's impacting on coastal communities, etc. realistically, given that you speak for roughly, what, 5% of the canadian population, how is your message on climate change going to translate into changing anything in canada's national politics? the most important aspect of my work is actually ensuring that allies stand with us. to me, this is... this government is run by non—indigenous people. this government is elected primarily by non—indigenous people.

and that's where the work begins for me as a national chief, is to work with our allies to make sure that these systemic changes happen, that these positive changes, and that our positive vision for the future comes true. our vision for the future, and our desires and wants are the same as other canadians. we want our children to be happy, healthy, living in safe and vibrant communities. this is a mutual goal that we all have in canada. and so, for me as national chief, it's about working with our allies to make sure that this government actually takes the action and listens to its own non—indigenous citizens in terms of changing the narrative and changing the structure so that first nations are treated with dignity and respect. so, 0k... i think that's a very basic thing. that's a message about dialogue, partnerships and politics.

but we've also seen other things happening in recent weeks and months. we've seen more than a dozen churches burned by arson attack. we've seen some very well—known statues in canada, including, i believe, one of queen victoria, that have been vandalised. it is thought, though the police can't confirm it for sure, but it's thought that at least some of these actions are taken by furious people who do not believe the government is listening to your message about respecting first nations rights. what do you say to those people who are now taking direct action? i understand them, first of all. i understand that kind of rage and that kind of hurt that is multi—generational, so it's intergenerational trauma. i believe that we have to do more than just destroy the symbols of colonialism. and that's what these are. these statues are symbols of colonialism. they are symbols of a history that has left first nations out of the narrative.

and so, to me, we have to go beyond that. it is about changing these systems, and that's where my work begins. it begins with our allies. it begins with... clears throat excuse me. ..every government and canada to make sure that the trc calls to action, the 94 trc calls to action are actually implemented and brought forth, because right now only ten of those 94 have been actually implemented fully. and when we see these 94 calls to action implemented, we will transform this society. we will see the truth taught in schools. we will see the next generation understand who first nations really are in this country, that this is our land, we were placed here by the creator, we have god—given rights, we have rights, we have inherent and treaty rights. what do you say to those canadians who feel and see

the anger that comes from you and so many other in the first nations and they wonder about where this leaves the very idea of canada? the conservative political leader, erin 0'toole, he said, "i'm concerned that injustices in our past are too often "seized upon by a group of activist voices who use "it to attack the very idea of canada itself." what do you say to him? the idea of canada is built upon lies. that's what's important about this process, is that for many years the canadian government knew about residential schools, they knew about the deaths that were happening there, and they did not inform their own citizens. so the idea of canada must be deconstructed and rebuilt in a way that is inclusive of the truth

and inclusive of... inclusive of first nations and our stories, and the fact that we are truly the founding nations of this country, and we have to get that dignity and respect that we deserve so that we can live in peace, that we can have access to prosperity, that our children can be safe. that's the path forward. it's a path where justice actually reigns and that small groups are not oppressed or suppressed, which has been the case in canada. all right. well, roseanne archibald, i thank you very much forjoining me on hardtalk. thank you. thank you very much.

hello. the weather midweek isn't looking too bad at all for most of us. wednesday is going to bring lengthy sunny spells, skies will probably look a little bit like this. but we're expecting heavy showers, too. let's have a look at the big picture first, and here's the jet stream. everywhere south of that is warm. everywhere north of that is generally cool and quiet showery. and you can see a large chunk of the continent experiencing this relatively cool and showery summertime weather. so, at the moment, it's quiet on the weatherfront. clear first thing in the morning with lots of sunshine. temperatures around ten in glasgow, 13 in liverpool, 12 in london. notice a bit more cloud in the morning here out towards the north west, and actually it will be quite cloudy through the day. in the western isles and northern ireland, showers here. but showers also breaking out

across parts of the highlands, the pennines and a few scattered around the midlands and the south, too. but coastal areas probably staying dry and sunny all through the course of the afternoon. winds�*ll be light. it'll feel warm enough, too, 22 degrees quite widely. even on the north sea coast, in excess of 20 celsius. you'll notice that some of these showers, some heavy and maybe thundery ones, will last through the afternoon and into the evening hours as well on wednesday. now, here's the weather map for thursday. this current of wind, that's the jet stream pushing a low pressure towards us for the end of the week, so that means the weather is turning unsettled. and here's thursday. 0ut towards the west comes the low pressure. you can see the increasing winds, up to near gale—force around some coasts. outbreaks of rain, too. for a time at least, eastern parts of the country shouldn't be too bad at all on thursday. i think that rain and wind will probably reach you later in the day, and temperatures hence getting up to around 22

in the afternoon in hull. but the low pressure is slap bang over us on friday, and it'll be a slow—mover. so, that means all the heavy showers that'll be churning away, they'll be sitting on top of us for quite some time. i think on friday particularly heavy. the met office is highlighting across scotland, northern ireland and the north of england heavy and thundery and prolonged. in the south, there'll be showers too. and remember, very breezy weather as well, so brollies at the ready.

welcome to newsday, reporting live from singapore, i'm karishma vaswani. the headlines: piling on the pressure. president biden urges andrew cuomo to resign as governor of new york after an investigation found he'd sexually harassed women while in office. afghanistan's defence minister survives a suicide bomb and gun attack on his home in kabul, as the taliban's insurgency continues. the olympic sprinter refusing to go home to belarus tells the bbc that she asked poland for protection because of serious concerns for her safety. translation: i can't go back to belarus nova — translation: i can't go back to belarus now. it _ translation: i can't go back to belarus now. it is _ translation: i can't go back to belarus now. it is definitely -

belarus now. it is definitely not safe for me.