tv Dateline London BBC News August 7, 2021 11:30am-12:01pm BST
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this is bbc news. the first gold of the day for team gb goes to goes to galal yafai, beating carlo paalam from the philippines in the flyweight boxing. success in the pool with tom daley taking the bronze in the 10 metre platform diving — his second medal of the games. china's cao yuan took the gold. tea m team gb also secured olympic men's medicines over it. the united states and britain urge their remaining citizens in afghanistan to leave immediately because of the worsening security situation. the end of most coronavirus restrictions in wales — no more limits on meeting indoors and an end to rules on social distancing.
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and, jackpot — students at the university of sussex are given the chance to win £5000 if they can prove they've had two doses of a covid vaccine or they're medically exempt. now on bbc news, it's dateline london. hello and welcome to the programme that brings together bbc specialists and the foreign correspondents who write, blog and broadcast to audiences back home from the dateline london. this week: one virus, three countries — the contrasting covid fortunes of china, the united states and the uk. afghanistan's president says it'll take six months to rout the taliban — but does he have six weeks? joining me this week are henry chu, uk bureau chief of the american paper, the la times,
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ned temko, who is with the christian science monitor, and bbc uk political correspondent, damian grammaticas, is with me in the studio. welcome, lovely to have you with us this week. and at home, thank you for watching. it's been a week of contrating fortunes in the global pandemic. here in the uk, wales is lifting its covid restrictions over the weekend, and scotland will lift most covid restrictions at the end of this weekend, three weeks after borisjohnson did the same in england. fears of a signficant surge in cases have not been borne out, and the number of people requiring hospitalisation appears to have stabilised. there's also been the first fall in the number of infections since the end of may, and a reduction in the r—rate below 1, other words, the virus is not growing in the population. the delta variant, first identified in india, is now the dominant strain. in the united states, it's led dr anthony fauci,
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the infectious diseases expert, who's been advising us presidents since the 1980s, to warn sunday the us is "going in the wrong direction." in wuhan, the chinese city where the virus was first detected in late 2019, the authorities are testing the entire population. the delta variant has brought covid back home with a vengeance. damien, what's happening there at the moment? china is really interesting at the minute. going back to the beginning of the pandemic and we know of course the first cases that appeared in wuhan, then china mobilised this response, and it's the sort of thing, when you lived in beijing, you get used to it, china can pull these massive resources and pull the levers of state power and impose these policies, being an authoritarian regime, that are very centrally directed. they closed off roads at one point. people confined to their homes, only one person in your household allowed out every three days to get
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food, entire cities placed under lockdown, very strict measures. that has worked and china returned to a level of normality. what we have seen is with this new delta variant, there was a flight, it appears, from moscow into nanjing about a month ago, which puts the virus in and it appears it was airport workers cleaning the plane who carred that out and spread it and itjust shows the dangers of how the new variant can spread. the figures are still very low in china, i think 80 oi’ so a day on average, but we are seeing again these sort of measures coming back in because the difficulty for china is it is in provinces all along the east, in a city of 4.5 million, nanjing is over 5 million,
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you've got wuhan, 11 million, people being tested, people enough city furhter north not being allowed out of the city without a negative test. they're trying to squash it but it's a challenge for china and there are questions about if they can continue with these sort of policies. it sounds like a complicated game of whack—a—mole being played there. ned, in the uk, despite all of the predictions, it looks at the moment as if the vaccination programme and other measures have worked, at least in restraining the delta variant. we are not out of the woods yet, but when you compare with what is happening in china and elsewhere in the world, what is your assessment? that they're extraordinarily fortunate, and it really has been quite a turn of events, because when so—called freedom monday happened three weeks ago, the great majority of public health professionals, scientists here were deeply concerned because here in one fell swoop, virtually all of the restrictions were going at the very time that the delta variant was surging
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in britain as everywhere else. but for reasons we may fully understand only in the months ahead, like so much about this virus, it was the dog that didn't bark. i mean, the case numbers have come right down, hospitalisations of course remain low, so too deaths, thankfully. it appears the combination of this undeniably successful vaccination programme and, i guess, just the start of something resembling herd immunity has, at least for now, put them in a very good place compared to the rest of the world. the one thing i would add, very briefly, is it is interesting that borisjohnson, the prime minister, the health secretary and other senior figures have been very, very careful not to take a victory
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lap yet because i think they know, as we all do, that this virus does not take political orders. henry, that's a very good way of getting us to the us, where despite the political orders and the power of the president, joe biden�*s incentives and all the other things, he can't seem to get past this problem that vaccination, like so much else in american politics, has become politicised and there is still, apparently, i think if you add the figures together of those who say they won't take it and those who are resistant to taking it, 37% of republican voters probably not going to vaccinate at the moment and probably not going to vaccinate. it does cleave along partisan lines like that, as you say, _ and we see the states that - have the lowest vaccination rates are ones we would call red states, republican states. j for example, the least - vaccinated state is alabama, which voted heavily for donald
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trump — it has about a 40% vaccination rate of people aged 12 or over, - compared to vermont, admittedly a smaller. state up in new england, a very liberal state, - which has a vaccination rate of 77%. that tells you the us overall as such a big | country is a mixed picture. right now you have the delta variant surging, we have about more - than 70,000 cases being registered a day, and a third of those this - last week were in just two states alone, florida and texas, - where the republican governors have decided not to take - more active measures - to try to suppress that spread. they're very populous states, but my own state, california, | i the most populous state of all, i has taken more drastic measures. they're just about having masks on indoors again in places - like the bay area up north- and in los angeles, that has now
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helped tamp down the spread. it's a mixed bag in the us, _ but one thing to remember when i say there are 70,000 new cases per day, |that's more than twice what you have j in britain but our population is five times that of britain, | so it's always important . to keep numbers in mind, just as damien was saying about china, the cases- there are growing but they are still minuscule compared to countries l in the west. what about this debate that tedros ghebreyesus, the former ethiopian health minister who now runs the world health organization, warning of a uneven recovery from covid, that it's still the rich world versus everybody else in terms of supply of virus. no signs of new production capacity that was promised by the g7, no real signs of the global charter that borisjohnson said he wanted in place, and when mr ghebreyesus says said
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and when mr ghebreyesus said this week that we shouldn't be having booster vaccine, which the british are planning, until poorer nations have vaccines too, he gets a response like from the white house on friday, ned, it's a false choice and we can do both. well, they are plainly not doing both. i think that is true but i think it's a recognition that the political pressure internationally will grow. i think they are reckoning on not just the american government, but governments in the developed world that are fortunate enough to have the option, for instance, to consider boosters, is that their main political concern immediately, it's realpolitik, is the folks at home. it is a primary responsibility to keep them safe and reopen. i think what will be interesting is to see the degree to which america in particular tries
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to take a lead in really ramping up production and delivery to underdeveloped countries, because after all, the biden administration's foreign policy mantra has been, america is back, we are in a kind of struggle between democracy and autocracy internationally and president biden sees america as reasserting democratic leadership. now, one traditional area where that used to be done is in fact in vaccination for lots of other diseases in africa and other, notjust, you know, under recent presidents, but under george w bush, for instance, with hiv medicines and inoculation. i think the american administration will make a more visible effort in the weeks ahead to get that done. i think there are various issues involved here, i
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certainly you do have an uneven distribution around _ the world of vaccines. right now the who says of the doses administered so far, _ 80% of them have been in countries that are home to less than half- of the population and they tend to be wealthier countries - like britain and the us. so that is absolutely the case and you have the who chief. shifting his red lines. because if you remember, a few months ago, there l was the argument that no country should be vaccinating youths, - vaccinating children or teenagers until adults were vaccinated, - and now that has shifted to there shouldn't be any booster shots, i and there isn't much more objection being made to younger— people getting vaccinated. the us, i think, says it is stepping up, it has delivered _ about 100 million doses to over 60 countries, and biden has said - there will be a pledge ofi billion. today you heard china saying they are going i
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to supply 2 billion doses. it's notjust about supply, though. it's also about distribution, . and so covax, the consortium that is supposed to help get these shots in arms in poor countries . around the world, particularly, l it's not just about getting those vaccines over there. you have countries where vaccines are going. spoiling _ because they haven't been i administered quickly enough, there hasn't been enough training of people to inoculate folks - in their constituencies. so it isn't purely a matter of supply at this point. i damien, last thought on that? to pick up on two of those things, henry was saying about uneven distribution, because here in the uk you do see the government has put many of its eggs in this vaccine basket. this is the big success for the government. they rolled it out, as you say, they are talking now of bringing the vaccines down to 16—year—olds and i7—year—olds, already planning third shots later in the year, so a lot of success here but the uk
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hasn't been exporting vaccines. it has donated a very small amount in the last few days, i think 400,000 went to kenya, but kenya has a population of i think 50 million, has had 1.5 million doses, less than 1% fully vaccinated. look at other poor countries, yemen, south sudan, 0% fully vaccinated. so what we are seeing is the entrenchment of these sort of differences, the distinctions between rich and poor, but also that political narrative. so, china, president xijinping was talking about the success of the chinese system, showing how valuable and how much better it had reacted. china is on this huge drive to vaccinate from almost a standing start in march, they have done 1.7 billion doses, 17 million a day going out now. but that means that china is not exporting at the minute to other countries and also china is again finding its in a difficult position because it is going to see other western countries starting
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to open up and these political questions will then come back, i think, about which actually is the best approach. fascinating stuff. thank you all very much. in afghanistan, the departure of foreign troops appears to have heralded not an afghan army able to defend itself and its people, but the return of the taliban — further and faster, one former un official told me this week, than most had predicted. the assassination friday of a chief government spokesperson and the seizing of original capital in a country that has never really recovered from the war. president ashraf ghani said he could but the taliban in six months. has he got six weeks? someone who was there in the early 2000 was saying to me this week the taliban has moved further and faster than anyone had predicted they would. i think that's right and whether this plan is workable or exists,
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it kind of resonates from the old vietnam war days in which there is always a secret in which there was always a secret american plan to get out of the war, to win the war, and i think this will be seen with some scepticism. it is true the situation on the ground is fluid, but the flow is so far all in the one direction and that's in the favour of the taliban. i think if there is a break or if it is diverted somehow and we stop short of a kind of full scale assualt on some of these provincial capitals, it will be only in part the afghan government forces. it will depend on other things, the americans, who in theory are going to be out completely by august 31. but in the last few days have been stepping up air strikes in defence of the government forces.
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and perhaps most fascinatingly and importantly, other regional powers. for them, it's almost a situation of kind of be careful what you wish for because they've all been quite vocally critical of america's presence in afghanistan, and the nato allies�* presence in afghanistan over the last 20 years. but i think the speed and abruptness of the total american withdrawal has left a vacuum that each for their own reasons is concerned about. i want to talk a bit about what neighbouring countries do, the dilemma they face in a moment. but, henry, before we do that, it sounded slightly ludicrous to say, "i've got a six month plan," but might he have a point? could it be that traditional saviour of embattled afghan governments, the winter, that actually forestalls any fall of this government? in the past, you've seen fighting
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dwindle during the very, - very cold winter months but is not and you yourself mentioned, - very cold winter months but as mentioned, - the speed at which the taliban| is now galloping towards major population centres, like kandahar, and now even mounting attacks, . in kabul. — is really quite staggering. so the idea of having six months to wait, i to actually rout the taliban . think might be a pipe dream. we are already seeing provincial capitals fall, as you mention. i various crossing points to other countries, - such as pakistan and iran, - now controlled by the taliban. increasingly, if some i of the provincial capitals i and couple itself are able to hold | out, what you will have are simply islands of government control but then again, they could be | placated by the rest of the taliban, the country being under— the taliban's thumb. i think the idea of six months,
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half a year, that could change | during that time but i don't think what we are seeing right now, i if that's any sign of the trend that will be going all over the next - couple of months, i don't think that president ghani actually has that. l i think the us realises this now. i mean, they are seeing _ the consequence of having announced, almost without notifying nato and some of the other allies, | that they were going to pull out by september 11, - that was the original deadline, it caught - everybody on the hop. i think there are perhaps realising that some continued our supportl that some continued air support will be necessary, but the idea of boots back on the ground, i that's not going to happen. unfortunately i think we will see a taliban overrun earlier- than anybody expected. damian, you've spent some years covering the afghanistan story, you've been into the country a number of times, you've seen this unfold over that 20—year period. it's not surprising, is it, that other countries like pakistan, turkmenistan, are making a calculation, saying it's time to cosy up to the taliban because they could be
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in power very soon? i think henry and i were both in south asia and watching this situation at a similar time. pakistan, of course, has always had a very, very close relationship and ties with the taliban, using pakistani areas as sort of rear bases, that has always been a big part of the calculation. india is a big player in this, as well. china, with its border with afghanistan, obviously that's the region of xinjiang, where china has that huge, at the minute, that policy, the very repressive policy inaction in xinjiang. so you have players looking at this, and western countries, too. it's very difficult, actually, to call how this will play
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out because afghanistan has always had this very sort of grinding, complex patchwork of conflicts and relationships. and no government that has ever truly controlled the country? so many regional power players. i went there when you saw the taliban, their resurgence coming back after we'd had september 11, 2001, sort of later, 2006, 2007, 2008, the taliban came back, foreign forces went in, there in the south near kandahar, the canadians, they had their operation there and went in to clear the area, and you saw on the ground, how hard it was even for a major western military, they had satellite photographs, daily planning, moving forward inch by inch, even that took weeks to dislodge the taliban. they left and they came back, snuck back into districts, targeted with explosives, suicide bombers, killed local officials working with the government. we are seeing a similar thing again.
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it's very difficult, even with all of that military backing, for a central government to control power. but at the same time you have a patchwork, and western militaries used to look at the very tribal look affiliations, that makes it difficult, the taliban is not one thing, it's a local affiliation, money plays a part, power plays a part, so for them to mount a coordinated response is also a difficult thing. i think what we are likely to see is this grinding on and we see these assassinations, the government spokesperson today, we have had a high profile academic, a comic, journalists... the defence minister earlier in the week. and i think the most likely thing is civilians, i think 1000 deaths in the last few weeks, the un is being told today,
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civilians caught in the brunt of this, and it is a very messy picture that could play out for a long time. henry, a last thought on this, if i may. ned said earlier, america is back, that is the biden rhetoric. afghans aren't seeing america is back, they'rejust seeing america is back, it raises questions about what that means was a are seeing america's back. i think what biden meant is it's back with its allies, _ the powers that had counted on us support and backing l throughout these many decades, particularly in europe but also . asia, that they could once again count - on the us to be by their side but this is bitterly— ironic in showing that - when america acts unilaterally, which it practically did _ in announcing it was going to pull out of afghanistan without really consulting nato very well, - that also causes ructions, - and unfortunately that's playing out on the ground in afghanistan. and damian mentioned l civilians being caught out in the middle, we haven't talked
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about the battle for hearts - and minds, and from all of— the reporting our own correspondents at the la times have done out there, i it's a populace that has itself been i ground down in this grinding war, and they are totally _ exhausted by the conflict - and are looking to any power now, whether the us or the taliban, who can restore some form - of stability and order. and i think that is not to be counted out- as we go into the next few months. let's devote the last few minutes to the stories you think we should know more about. and start off with you, ned. i would like to talk about two countries, both of which are undergoing a particularly difficult time. one is myanmar and the other is lebanon, which has a particular place in myjournalistic heart because one of my firstjobs was covering the lebanese civil war in the late 705,
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and i have lots of dear friends that are still there. it will not have escaped any of us that there has been a fair amount of coverage in these past few days of both myanmar and the military dictatorship there, and the situation in lebanon one year after that terrible explosion in beirut port. but in both cases, the coverage has been kind of a result of the calendar, and i suppose my concern is, what happens once this calendar tips over the next day and the next week? do we risk forgetting about the terribly difficult situation in both countries? thank you. henry? just look at the coverage we have had over the last few weeks - on climate change and climate disaster around the world, - we are really realising it's hitting rich countries, - as somebody i once spoke to said, it's a rich country problem now -
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in the way it perhaps hadn't been in countries like canada, - but now we are seeing catastrophic floods in central europe, _ central and western europe, - we are seeing extremely deadly heat waves in the north—west which has made everybody sit up in these . countries, but let's not forget that climate change has been hitting i poorer countries hard. just very briefly, henry. sorry. madagascar in particular, - we are seeing a famine happening before our eyes which might be the first time in modern history i that is purely from climate change . and not because of man—made causes. thank you very much. 20 seconds, damien! i think we should go to the olympics, we had about the belarussian athlete that saught asylum which has put the spotlight back on by the recent human rights there, but a lot of sort of grim talk let's also remember the high jumpers who shared gold, i think that was a moment worth reflecting on. thank you all.
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and thank you, too. hello, everyone. i hope you're doing all right. well, typically, just in time for the weekend we are joined by an area of low pressure, which, in turn, will bring us some heavy, thundery, slow—moving downpours and they could lead to some localised flooding in places as well. but we also have some sunny spells in the mix. there is your headline for the weekend and hopefully most of us will see a mixture of both of those things. despite it being unsettled at times, we will see some sunshine, as well. this is happening because of what you see here on the pressure chart. an area of low pressure, this weather front swirling around as well, will bring blustery winds at times. eastern sheltered parts of scotland, england seeing something brighter for longer as we head through the afternoon, but the showers are all on the move,
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so i don't think anywhere will avoid them, really. a strengthening breeze turning blustery at times and top temperatures not exciting, between 15 and 20. casting an eye on this evening, the showers are likely to continue, potentially merging together into longer, more prolonged spells of rain for a time. you can see them swirling around the centre of that low. heading into tomorrow, we start to tip the balance into something drier. temperatures down to 13 or 1a celsius. very slowly, this low pressure system is creeping up towards the north and in doing so we should see something a bit more settled tomorrow, especially across southern parts. we can see central and southern parts of england and wales seeing more in the way of the brighter, drier conditions. northern ireland, northern england, up towards scotland the showers will continue here, and they could be heavy, thundery, a lot of rainfall
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in a short space of time. the same story there. the top temperature tomorrow, 19 or 20 celsius. this coming week, the low pressure wants to stick around, but it is still on the move on monday. gradually, this is moving away and allowing for a ridge of high pressure to build as we look towards tuesday and into wednesday. when we speak of low pressure, that generally means unsettled weather, whereas high pressure is the opposite. that should bring something drier and brighter. it is unsettled over the next couple of days and the showers could bring a lot of rainfall over a short period of time with localised flooding. that is today and tomorrow. hopefully, by the middle of this coming week we will see something more settled. i will keep you posted. that is the forecast. stay safe. see you soon.
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this is bbc news. the headlines at 12.00am: great britain'sjoe chung has won the gold medal in the men's modern pentathlon on the 15th day at the tokyo olympics. gold medal number 2a team gb. the first gold of the day for team gb goes to goes to galal yafai, beating carlo paalam from the philippines in the flyweight boxing. success in the pool, with tom daley taking the bronze in the 10m platform diving — his second medal of the games. china's cao yuan took the gold. britain's matt walls and ethan hayter took aim medal in the
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