cities in afghanistan. they've driven out government forces in the third biggest city, herat, and claim to have taken control of kandahar — the second largest. as the security situation deteriorates thousands of us and british troops are being sent back to help evacuate american and uk nationals. police in south west england say that five people have been killed in a shooting incident in the city of plymouth. the suspect also died in the incident. detectives say it was not terror related and they are not looking for anyone else in connection with the shooting. the father of britney spears has agreed to step down as conservator of her estate. the arrangement began in 2008 after concerns over the singer's mental health. jamie spears took legal control of her life and finances. now on bbc news, it's hardtalk.

welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. the humanitarian crisis in northern ethiopia is worsening as conflict continues on multiple fronts. tigrayan rebel forces have won a string of victories over the ethiopian military. ethiopia's prime minister now says all of the state's military resources will be deployed to halt the rebels. my guest is getachew reda, spokesman for the tigray people's liberation front. with the death toll rising and man—made famine taking hold, what is the endgame for tigray�*s rebels?

getachew reda in mekelle, tigray, welcome to hardtalk. my pleasure. let me ask you this — we see the terrible suffering that millions of people are experiencing in your region as a result of, what, 8—9 months of conflict? why is it that your side, the tigray people's liberation front, appears intent on intensifying the fighting rather than ending it? well, it's exactly the same reason why we took up arms and tried to liberate our people from the suffering you've alluded to. in fact, we do not consider ourselves rebels. we are a legitimately—elected government who was removed

from the capital by abiy and his partners in crime, the amhara expansionist forces, and the eritrean regime. so these people, these partners in crime have brought all kinds of untold miseries on our people. and we did everything in our power to bring together all our efforts to liberate every square inch of tigrayan territory from the invaders. of course, this crisis, the humanitarian crisis you have been alluding to, of course, millions of our people are suffering from this man—made crisis which was systematically engineered and generated by the very people who invaded our territory, invaded our people. it's hugely important that we talk about the humanitarian crisis, and we'll do so injust a minute. but first, to talk about the military situation, i referred to intensification on your part because injune, we know that abiy ahmed,

the prime minister of ethiopia, declared a ceasefire. the ethiopian forces withdrew from the city you're in, mekelle. you claimed a victory and he said that his forces would stop fighting. but since then, your forces have pushed beyond tigray�*s regional borders, into amhara, into afar. you are now taking the fight beyond your own borders. look, we have not yet liberated a significant part of tigray. the western part of tigray is still in the hands of either eritreans or amhara expansionist forces, as well as federal endf forces, and the joke that abiy declared a unilateral ceasefire on 20 june is simply a joke, because it was only a decision made by abiy once his strongest military units in tigray were absolutely decimated by our forces. so we vowed then, and will

continue to vow even now, that until such time as the very war apparatus, military apparatus, that wrought havoc in tigray ceases to operate, as long as there continues to be a threat to the safety and security of our people, we continue to take whatever action is necessary to make sure the guns are silenced. because there still has been, there has been, there continues to be a concerted effort on the part of abiy and his partners, both amhara expansionist forces, as well as the eritrean forces, to cow us into submission, to continue to perpetrate the kind of suffering, the kind of heinous crimes that they have been committing against our people. but how far... so they have continued their campaign... how far are you prepared to go? the world's media — hang on — the world's media sawjust the other day that your forces seized lalibela, the very famous site of ancient churches in amhara region. we also see your forces in afar region.

there are tens and tens of thousands of newly—displaced people because of the expansion of the territory controlled by your forces. how far are you prepared to go? there are two things here. you know, we have to make sure the safety and security of our people is secure. and to do so, we have to make sure that abiy and his forces will not be in a position to come back and haunt our people any more, 0k? abiy has continued to maintain a chokehold on our people. he has cut off communications. he has cut off electricity. he has cut off access to humanitarian aid. and he wants us to continue what he has failed to achieve on the warfront, to continue through the kind of siege he has imposed on the people of tigray. so we have made it abundantly clear that until such time that such a siege is lifted and that our people are back to normalcy, that no amount of security threat continues to be posed against our

people by both eritreans or ethiopians, or the amhara expansionists, we will continue to take whatever action is necessary. so to be clear... yep, let's keep this as concise as we can. to be clear, you are saying that as things stand right now, you have on your side, that is the tplf side, tigrayan people's liberation front side, you have no interest in a ceasefire right now. we have made it abundantly clear that we will agree to a ceasefire, a negotiated ceasefire, as long as the conditions we have put forward are met. these conditions have nothing to do with additional infrastructural facilities on abiy�*s part, no additional arrangements on the federal government's part. it's about switching on telecommunications, about switching on banking services. it's about switching on electricity. this does not require any amount of effort on abiy�*s part. he switched off those services, and even people who would otherwise have eked out a living going about their

normal business are not in a position to do so simply because they don't have access to the basic amenities that other people in other parts of ethiopia are entitled to, to the extent that... yeah, i understand you're saying that the ethiopian government and its allies must open up all of the services, the communications, the supply routes into tigray as a precondition for a ceasefire. but the us government, never mind... it's not just. .. hang on — never mind the addis government, the us government is saying that another immediate urgent precondition for a ceasefire must be you withdrawing your forces from amhara and from afar regions. and i want to know if you're prepared to do that. we are not prepared to do that. we're not prepared to do that. while we understand where the americans are coming from, while we understand the kind of concerted efforts they have exerted on behalf of our people, we are very grateful to that.

but we totally beg to differ when it comes to withdrawal of our forces back to tigray because we still have to liberate every square inch of tigray territory. the west is still in the control of amhara expansionists, eritreans and the federal forces. second, we don't have any security arrangement which would ensure that abiy, with his declared intention to commit genocide in tigray, will not come back and unleash the kind of suffering he had perfected into an art form the last nine months. i'm listening very hard to what you're saying. and when you accuse prime minister abiy ahmed, whose ruling party, let us not forget, did win a crushing majority of seats in the federal parliament just a couple of months ago, when you — hang on... i consider that a joke. well, you say it's a joke, but when he is accused by people on your side of genocide, i'm wondering whether you're really saying

that there can be no peace as long as abiy ahmed is still in power in addis ababa. is that what you're saying? i don't care if he sticks around in arat kilo, but what i care more about is whether he's in a position to threaten the safety and security of our people any more. whether he stays put in arat kilo is a totally different story. ethiopians are entitled to pick their own leader. and if they want to maintain abiy ahmed as their leader, even if he presides over the disintegration of the nation, that is the least of my problems at this point in time. hang on. my important... hang on, hang on. abiy ahmed isn't their leader, he's also your leader. you are an ethiopian. i respectfully disagree. he's not my leader. i didn't take part in the elections, and i would have... you do not live in a separate state called tigray. you live in ethiopia, and tigray is one region within ethiopia. yes, i live in ethiopia, but i

live in a territory which we, thanks to the struggle of our people, have liberated from the chokehold of abiy ahmed — except that he wants to extend his chokehold through other means because he happens to control the switch in addis. so that's your agenda, is it? it's separatism. what this is really all about... no, no. and it's important people around the world know this, is that you are seeking entire separation from ethiopia. you no longer regard addis ababa and prime minister abiy ahmed as legitimate rulers of your country. no, i don't consider abiy ahmed as a legitimate leader, not only of tigray but also of the 0romos or even the amhara. so as far as we are concerned it's separatism to the extent that there is a tendency of separatism in tigray, it's imposed on us. it is because abiy and his partners in crime caused the kind of suffering which no—one in their right mind could have imagined

would come from a government that considers them its own. so, you know, to the extent that there is a tendency of separatism, i don't think this was something we wilfully pursued. this wasn't something that was part of our agenda. it still is not part of our agenda. but we have to make sure that our people have the right to self—determination and they should have unfettered access to the full exercise of this right. whether abiy is considered a legitimate leader by the rest of the world, it is of no relevance as far as we're concerned. when i hear you use this kind of language, i then read what abiy ahmed said to ethiopiansjust the other day. he said that he was calling up all able—bodied civilians who could serve to join the military. he said, "we need to halt the destruction of the treasonous and terrorist tplf organisation and the machinations of foreign hands once and for all."

so you talk of separatism. he describes you as treasonous and terrorist. there is no reason to believe that this conflict is going to get anything but much worse. as a statement by... it should stand to be corrected. i didn't say we are for separatism. to the extent that there is a tendency of separatism, it is imposed upon us. and i'm particularly proud of the fact that our people are fighting tooth and nail to make sure that their self—determination rights are fully exercised, fully protected. whether that will result in independence is an entirely different matter. as far as we are concerned, abiy committed genocide on the people of tigray. he didn't do it simply because he was forced into it. it was because there was a method to the madness that was visited upon tigray. there was a method, a systematic nature of the campaign that he unleashed against the people of tigray. his forces committed rape. his forces committed

forced disappearances. all kinds of heinous crimes. we'll get to the... ethnic cleansing... we'll get to the accusations of atrocities, egregious abuses of human rights... well, i'm not talking about accusations. we'll get to them because, frankly, you know, you know that they apply to your side as well as abiy�*s side in this conflict, and we'll talk about them in just a moment. but before we get there, let us just consider the hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people, civilians, who might listen to this conversation between you and me and might be in despair because they know that the tone you are taking, just as the tone taken in addis ababa, suggests this conflict is going to get worse. 400,000 people, according to the un, are already facing man—made famine because of it, we see hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people already displaced because of this conflict, and you appear to be prepared to see those numbers get much worse.

it would be unfair to accuse us of intensifying the conflict. the conflict, the ball is in abiy�*s court. it is for abiy to agree to the very terms we have put forward, because it does require, like i said earlier, it does require an additional arrangement on his part. all he has to do is switch on the services, 0k? once he does that, we can sit together and discuss and negotiate on conditions for a negotiated ceasefire. otherwise, he wants to continue to maintain his chokehold on our people. he wants to continue to bombard our people. he sends divisions after divisions. simply because he has claimed that he has declared unilaterally a ceasefire, doesn't mean it was indeed a ceasefire. in fact, his call to arms to the entire civilian population of ethiopia is another form of calling on genocide against the people of tigray. and if peace is going to prevail... i think people...

..it takes two to tango. we've discussed abiy ahmed and you've used your accusations many times. let's move on. i want to know whether the humanitarian assistance desperately needed by hundreds of thousands of people who are facing famine is actually reaching them right now. the world food programme chief says that hundreds of trucks a day are needed to deliver urgent aid to those people. are trucks getting through? yes or no? they're not getting through. i know of 178 trucks that have gotten through, but it is the tip of the iceberg compared to the kind of volume that is required to feed hundreds of thousands of people. abiy ahmed's forces are obstructing the traffic. they are coming up with all kinds of excuses. in fact, they are using conflict that is taking place in areas where there is no traffic whatsoever, and he is giving all kinds of excuses and pretexts to obstruct food convoys. and, of course, i again

reiterate that the ball is in abiy�*s court, and it is for him to relent on his chokehold on tigray, to allow even humanitarian agencies to have access to cash, for god's sakes. he has cut off banking services and humanitarian organisations do not have access to cash. if we're talking about the humanitarian crisis, we then have to talk about the allegations of terrible, horrifying abuses and atrocities committed against civilian populations in tigray and the surrounding regions. now, i know that human rights groups, independent observers, have laid accusations at the door of the ethiopian military forces, but they have also laid serious accusations at your door, too. and today, i'm interviewing you, not the authorities in addis. so how do you respond, for example, to the latest reports that your forces in the tplf bombarded displaced

civiliansjust days ago in galicoma town in afar region — and, according to reports, many dozens, possibly a couple of hundred civilians, including many, many scores of children, were killed in the tplf attack? you know, we are against impunity of any sort, whether it comes from abiy or from any force whatsoever. as far as this galicoma incident is concerned, we have made it abundantly clear that we are open for independent investigation. but to put matters in perspective... well, you must know, you're a senior adviser to the tplf, governing authority. you must know whether your military forces, the tigrayan defence forces, did bombard civilians and cause multiple casualties. look, let me tell you this. you know, the story that galicoma was bombarded by our forces is an absolute lie. you know how i know?

because our forces were operating there, our commando units neutralised an afar special unit, and it's only the afar special units, while retreating, who destroyed a government warehouse. but the claim that hundreds of children were killed is something we take seriously. but as far as we are concerned, it is not the work or the job of our military forces. well, i mean, people might wonder how real your investigation is going to be, if you've already dismissed the accusations as lies. no, no, i'm calling for — in fact, we're working with un representatives here to send a team to see for themselves what did happen there. so you've had months — — hang on, hang on, let's go through it. you've had months and months to investigate the very serious allegations backed by important work done by reuters news agency and others into what exactly happened in a small settlement called mai kadra, which is a mixed

community of tigrayans and amhara people and, according to multiple eyewitnesses, tigrayan youths, working alongside tplf forces, shot, stabbed, and killed hundreds of amhara civilians. you've had months to investigate that. you tell me what you found. you know, stephen, you know that we still are open for investigation, even in the case of mai kadra. as far as we know, we're not in a position to even field... excuse me, you've had... ..teams for investigation... you've had eight months to investigate. what have you discovered in eight months? you know, stephen, iwill give you a rudimentary idea of what was happening the last 6—7 months. we were struggling for our lives. we were training our people. we were cornered in many parts of tigray. and of course, we had to come back and reassert ourselves. we still are open for investigation. but, you know, the story about mai kadra is a story of advertising. you keep saying something a thousand times over,

and you end up believing it. because we were cut off from media, we were denied of any access to communications, and every story that was churned out by abiy ahmed ended up becoming a reality. simple question — are your forces using child soldiers? we're not using child soldiers because soldiers have never been in short supply. but there are children who want to join the army because of the suffering that they have suffered, because their parents found themselves at the receiving end of these hassles or abiy�*s high—handed tactics. but we refused because we have tonnes of people lining up tojoin our ranks. we don't have to use child soldiers. so the pictures that have been shown on ethiopian tv of children captured during conflict with tplf forces, what, they're all fake, are they? they are fake, because abiy�*s forces are not in a position to even take prisoners, because they are retreating,

towns after towns. they have already abandoned practically half of the country, and they would have you believe that they have prisoners. they don't have prisoners. how could they have prisoners? they are simply rounding up helpless children who are returning from saudi arabia or helpless children in many parts of addis ababa, who are eking out a living selling all kinds of commodities, or doing all kinds of errands, and then parading them on tv as prisoners of war. that's an absolute lie. let's talk about the future. right now, as we've discussed in this interview, yourforces are fighting in amhara. they're fighting in afar. you're fighting eritrean soldiers who are on ethiopian territory. and, of course, you're fighting the ethiopian national forces as well. you'vejust, as i understand it, signed some sort of military alliance deal with the rebels in 0romo. it seems that you want to fragment ethiopia,

to foment fighting on many, multiple fronts across ethiopia. is it your desire to tear apart your own country? no, it's not our desire to tear apart the country. even if we were to decide to become independent, we still want the rest of ethiopia to be intact. i'm not saying we are fighting to become independent, but i wouldn't rule that out because the tendency on the part of the population is that probably it's not a good idea to stick around. but the point is, we are doing the most responsible thing under the circumstances. the 0lf, whether it is considered terrorist by abiy or not, that's secondary, is playing a significant role in a significant part of the country. and we are also reaching out to other political organisations, political entities who would have one way or another to contribute to the continuity of the ethiopian state. i find your answers very interesting, and to be honest, i also find the way you just looked rather...

you know, you gave me a smile when you talked about your alliance with the new, the rebel forces in 0romo. i'm just wondering, when one leading analyst says that there is a real possibility — hang on — a real possibility of genocidal violence in ethiopia and it is increasing week upon week, do you agree with him? we are clearly seeing signs of genocide being systematically pushed by the prime minister himself. he's been referring to the people of tigray as weeds to be got rid of. you know, this kind of vitriolic propaganda is obviously creating tension. so, of course, the writing is on the wall. so our arrangement with the 0lf, for example, our arrangement with other political organisations is to make sure that there is some sort of responsible transitional arrangement which would somehow avoid the kind of calamities abiy�*s irresponsible behaviour

would likely lead to. well, we have to keep watching and hoping that the worst can be avoided in your country. i thank you very much, getachew reda, for joining me from mekelle. thank you very much indeed. my pleasure, stephen. hello. there is no real heat in the uk forecast for the next few days. but across southern europe, it's a different story — it's been an exceptionally hot week, with that heat now migrating westwards. the orange colours on this chart show places where temperatures will be well above the average. in parts of southern spain, we could be looking at temperatures as high as 47

celsius because high pressure is trapping the heat in place. but for us, low pressure is close by — that means some brisk winds, some rain at times but not all the time, and temperatures will struggle especially across northwestern parts of the uk. and here through friday, we will see some quite hefty showers working through — some heavy, some thundery, especially widespread across the far northwest of scotland. further south and east, many parts of england and wales will be dry with just the odd shower here. and while there will be big areas of cloud floating past, there will also be some good spells of sunshine. but it's breezy for all of us, especially windy up towards the northwest, and top temperatures in glasgow ofjust i7 celsius. could get to 22 or 23 across parts of eastern and southeastern england. now as we head through friday night, we will see some further showers especially across the northern half of scotland. further south, it turns predominantly dry, some clear spells at least for a time, and temperatures between 11—15 celsius as we start

saturday morning. so as we head into the start of the weekend, we've got one area of low pressure tending to push away north eastwards, but here comes another low drifting in from the west. a bit of uncertainty still at this range about the detail of saturday's forecast, but it's likely we will see cloud and rain spreading in most likely across some central parts of the uk. to the north, it's a mix of sunshine with just a few showers at this stage, and across the south of england, maybe south wales, it's likely to stay pretty much dry with some sunshine. those temperatures, for the most part, between 19 and 22 celsius. now, the messy picture continues on into sunday. this area of low pressure continues to drift in from the west. you will see this frontal system dropping down from the north, so could well be a few different areas of rain on sunday. 0ne pushing into northern scotland, some rain across northern england and wales. perhaps some further south as well. but in between the areas of the wet weather there will be some spells of sunshine. but by this stage turning really cool in northern scotland, maybe just 14

degrees.

this is bbc news. i'm ben boulos with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. the taliban make their most dramatic gains yet against afghan government forces, and claim to have taken the country's second largest city, kandahar. as the security situation deteriorates, thousands of us and british troops are being sent back in to help evacuate american and uk nationals. police in south west england say six people have died in a shooting incident in the city of plymouth. the father of britney spears agrees to step down as longtime conservator of her estate, in what's seen a major victory for the singer.