tv HAR Dtalk BBC News August 13, 2021 8:30pm-9:01pm BST
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taliban fighters have captured afghanistan's second city, kandahar, in a crushing blow for the kabul government. it follows the fall of several key cities on thursday, in the most dramatic string of victories yet. international aid agencies are warning of a humanitarian catastrophe, with a quarter of a million people already displaced. the un estimates 80% of those forced to flee are women and children. in the uk — a three—year—old girl and herfather are among the victims named by police in the country's worst mass shooting since 2010. on thursday, a 22—year—old man killed five people before turning the gun on himself. emergency services in italy are continuing to fight wildfires that are burning in parts of the south and centre of the country — amid an enduring heatwave that's set an unofficial
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you are watching bbc noise. —— bbc news. let's return to our top story — and police have released further details about the five people who were shot dead in plymouth. 22—year—old jake davison's first victim was his mother — maxine davison. he then walked the streets nearby where he murdered four other people — including sophie martyn, who was three and her father lee — before turning the gun on himself. tonight, the prime minister described the murders as �*absolutely appalling.�* my my thoughts are with those who all tragically lost their life in an absolutely appalling incident. the point raised as a valid one but it needs to be properly investigated. i would just pay tribute to the police and the emergency services for the speed and promptness in which they
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handled it. , w' , speed and promptness in which they handled it. , a , ., handled it. very quickly, how worried are _ handled it. very quickly, how worried are you _ handled it. very quickly, how worried are you about - handled it. very quickly, how worried are you about the - worried are you about the misogynistic posts online? this has 'ust been misogynistic posts online? this has just been drawn _ misogynistic posts online? this has just been drawn to _ misogynistic posts online? this has just been drawn to my _ misogynistic posts online? this has just been drawn to my attention. i l just been drawn to my attention. i am sure that something... i am appalled by it. but i think this is something that will undoubtedly be part of the investigation and we should leave it to them. the gunman often posted videos online talking about his life. jake davison said he was socially isolated, and struggled to meet women, making references to "incels," misogynist online groups of "involuntary celibate" men, linked to a number of violent acts around the world. police have confirmed davison was a licensed firearms holder — and tonight its emerged the police watchdog will investigate why his licence was returned to him after being removed in september 2020 following an allegation of assault. with more, here's our home affairs correspondent, daniel sandford.
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just 22 years old, jake davison claimed in his increasingly manic social media posts to be isolated and defeated by light. now he is responsible for the worst mass shooting in britain for more than a decade. a key question for the police is why. decade. a key question for the police is why-— decade. a key question for the police is why. there is no motive that we know — police is why. there is no motive that we know at _ police is why. there is no motive that we know at present. - police is why. there is no motive that we know at present. we - police is why. there is no motive that we know at present. we arej police is why. there is no motive i that we know at present. we are at the moment not considering terrorism or a relationship with any far—right group or any such other group. joke group or any such other group. jake davison's group or any such other group. jake davison's account shows that he thought of himself as an incel, or involuntary celibate, and only subculture of people who resent the lack of a sexual partner. he was also interested in mass shootings and wrote there are a lot more guns and wrote there are a lot more guns and enter the uk than people think. one month ago he posted do you believe after a certain age it is
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pointless to try? i’m believe after a certain age it is pointless to try?— believe after a certain age it is pointless to try? believe after a certain age it is ointless tot ? �* ,., , ., ., pointless to try? i'm so beaten down and defeated — pointless to try? i'm so beaten down and defeated by _ pointless to try? i'm so beaten down and defeated by life. _ pointless to try? i'm so beaten down and defeated by life. that _ pointless to try? i'm so beaten down and defeated by life. that drive - and defeated by life. that drive that i_ and defeated by life. that drive that i once _ and defeated by life. that drive that i once had _ and defeated by life. that drive that i once had has _ and defeated by life. that drive that i once had has gone. - and defeated by life. that drive that i once had has gone. it- that i once had has gone. it literally— that i once had has gone. it literally gone. _ that i once had has gone. it literally gone. i— that i once had has gone. it literally gone. i don't - that i once had has gone. it literally gone. i don't havel that i once had has gone. it. literally gone. i don't have the that i once had has gone. it- literally gone. i don't have the any more _ literally gone. i don't have the any more so— literally gone. i don't have the any more. , , ., more. so were these murders are geologically _ more. so were these murders are geologically inspired _ more. so were these murders are geologically inspired and - more. so were these murders are geologically inspired and do - more. so were these murders are geologically inspired and do they| geologically inspired and do they count as a incel terrorist attack? we see a lot of incel inspired murderers who think they are killing themselves and want to take as many people as they can. the question of whether it is terrorism or not remains to be seen, whether there was an ideological motive beyond just his identity. fist was an ideological motive beyond just his identity.— was an ideological motive beyond just his identity. at his home, jake davison posted _ just his identity. at his home, jake davison posted hate _ just his identity. at his home, jake davison posted hate filled - just his identity. at his home, jake davison posted hate filled online l davison posted hate filled online rants about single mothers and his own mother in particular, calling her vile, dysfunctional and chaotic. yesterday evening he shot her dead. some previous mass shootings have resulted in tighter gun laws. the
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hungerford massacre of 1987 had 16 victims and lead to a ban on most semiautomatic weapons. the dunblane massacre led to a handgun ban. in the cumbria shootings of 2010, in which 12 people died, and last night's murders, shot guns were involved and these are still owned widely. almost 550,000 shot gun certificate is issued in england and wales last year. the number has remained steadily above half a million for many years. in the days ahead, police will need to piece together what they kind of of jake davison's mental health, his ideology and what drove him to kill so many people. well, for more now on the shooting, we can speak to peter squires,
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who's professor of criminology at the university of brighton, and author of gun culture or gun control. thank you for being with us despite the terrible circumstances in which we are talking. i know there is obviously an investigation going on to this in relation to this man. can you talk us through the steps that somebody would first have to go through to get a gun licence, and then the monitoring of that gun licence? ., , then the monitoring of that gun licence? . , , ., , licence? initially, it is a paper application — licence? initially, it is a paper application filled _ licence? initially, it is a paper application filled into - licence? initially, it is a paper application filled into your - licence? initially, it is a paper. application filled into your local police force. you have to nominate two referees, and the police in due course will contact your gp to assess your mental health stability. but you can only get a firearm, yet only justification for having but you can only get a firearm, yet onlyjustification for having one, is either occupation, you're a
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farmer and you need for pest control, or you're an active participate in a shooting sports. in a sense, there is the community that ought to be policing itself, because your referees will come from the gun club of which you are a member. they in a sense ought to monitoring one another and reporting any concerns. does that happen in your experience? it happen some of the time. it potently doesn't happen in other times. thomas hamilton at dunblane slip through the net, and it does seem as if the guy in plymouth failed to participate much in a shooting sports. really, you are supposed to surrender the license if you are not actively participating in the sport that is the justification for the licence. that's the reason you have got the gun, if you're not taking part in
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the activities, in a sense the gun licence ought to lapse. after five years, your license is renewed and at some point you would get a random visit from the police licensing unit, who would want to check your situation has not changed, check the security in which the gun is held in your home and do a paper check on any criminal offences that have come to light. again, that is an issue where some forces are clearly more diligent than others.— diligent than others. there are re orts diligent than others. there are reports tonight _ diligent than others. there are reports tonight that _ diligent than others. there are reports tonight that this - diligent than others. there are reports tonight that this man | diligent than others. there are i reports tonight that this man had begun taking away from him last autumn following allegations of an assault —— had begun to macro the gun taken away from him. based on what we now, what would likely have been the steps that would have had to have been gone through for him to get the gun back if there had been a
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situation in which it had been taken from him? aha, situation in which it had been taken from him? �* , ., , ,, , from him? a number of steps. in his articular from him? a number of steps. in his particular case. _ from him? a number of steps. in his particular case, it _ from him? a number of steps. in his particular case, it appears _ from him? a number of steps. in his particular case, it appears that - from him? a number of steps. in his particular case, it appears that he i particular case, it appears that he was involved in an assault. it appears he took part in an anger management course, in which he was deemed to have passed, and therefore the suspended license was given back and the gun returned to him. we have seen this before. we have seen a case of this in durham, in surrey, both of which resulted in police handing back gardens and multiple murders following. i really do not think that the threshold is high enoughin think that the threshold is high enough in terms of the respective responsibility and the levels of behaviour that we would expect of someone who is entrusted with a dangerous weapon licence. we clearly take a very much _
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dangerous weapon licence. we clearly take a very much more _ dangerous weapon licence. we clearly take a very much more permissive - take a very much more permissive attitude to this than the americans. that may be a contributing factor why these events are thankfully rare. nonetheless, the questions that people will ask as a result of last night as what more we can do. let me put that question to you. i have no doubt that, globally and certainly within europe, some of the toughest gun control laws. for me the question has always been about the question has always been about the implementation of them. whilst there is an national standard that applies to gun licensing, it is carried out by 43 different police forces who apply that standard in the 43 different shades of due diligence. i think if we had a really costed licensing system, rather than our system at the moment where you can get a gun licence for
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£70, therefore it costs the police to undertake the licensing and supervision process. if we fully costed it, they may well be able to invest in appropriate levels of resource and inspection into the used process. but i think some police forces are strapped for cash, especially rural forces, they may not feel they have the resources to be that aggressive or that proactive with respective firearms licensing. that is where the problem lies. not in the laws, but in the way they are implemented. in the laws, but in the way they are implemented-— in the laws, but in the way they are implemented. professor, thank you very much- — implemented. professor, thank you very much- mrs _ implemented. professor, thank you very much. mrs devon _ implemented. professor, thank you very much. mrs devon and - implemented. professor, thank you very much. mrs devon and cornwall constabulary, which is a huge rural area and doubtless has a large number of gun owners. because many people are involved in businesses like farming, which are more likely
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to require the possession of a gun and gun licence. let's talk now about the social media side of this. a number of social media accounts belonging to jake davison have now been closed. the 22—year—old had "liked" a series of videos about guns, and had discussed the so—called "incel" movement, an online subculture linked to mass murders and hate crimes against women. with me is imran ahmed, founder and ceo of the center for countering digital hate. thank you for being with us. first of all, tell us a little bit about the incel movement, if it can be described as a movement at all. the term refers — described as a movement at all. the term refers to _ described as a movement at all. iie: term refers to the described as a movement at all. tia: term refers to the term described as a movement at all. ti2 term refers to the term involuntary celibate, which was a term ironically described by a women to describe her lack of success romantically, but now describes a
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deeply misogynistic male supremacist, violet extremist movement of men who hate women and have banded together in social media spaces to find community, to reassure each other that their beliefs are normal. in doing so, one of the sort of natural processes we have seen in these extremism is when they appear in online forms and groups is that they radicalise. they get worse and worse. the sport of one—upmanship as to who can see the most offensive, extreme thing. these spaces are now deeply toxic. they are now responsible for generating a series of terrorists who committed serious atrocities around the world, in north america and now the uk. they pose a serious threat to national security. the difficult . uestion national security. the difficult question i— national security. the difficult question i suppose _ national security. the difficult question i suppose is - national security. the difficult question i suppose is a - national security. the difficult i question i suppose is a question national security. the difficult - question i suppose is a question you have wrestled with as you have looked at this, it applies to other
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online environments as well, is what is the trigger that turn somebody who can off—load their insecurities and a lot of bile in a closed environment with a group of like—minded people into somebody who actually turns it into something in the real world? an identity that they have online and is different from the identity that the rest of us sees. but one thing leads to another. presumably a lot of the men in those groups don't actually end “p in those groups don't actually end up carrying out any of the vile things that they say. in up carrying out any of the vile things that they say.- things that they say. in their entire lives, _ things that they say. in their entire lives, they _ things that they say. in their entire lives, they will - things that they say. in their| entire lives, they will commit things that they say. in their - entire lives, they will commit acts that will discriminate against women. they may be abusive towards women, they may fail to promote women, they may fail to promote women, they may treat them badly in myriad ways. what you're talking about is mobilisation. with extremism, there is ideological extremism, there is ideological extremism that women are only there to provide sex for men, and that
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theirfailure to do to provide sex for men, and that their failure to do so is a reflection of them being bad or evil. so the creation of an external enemy. also then ie mobilisation moment was that it acquires two things, crisis and solution. the solution further incels is always violence against women. it may be an event happening in a broader environment, it may be geopolitical. what we know for incels, it doesn't matter what the crisis is, the solution is always hurt women. that is a very sobering _ solution is always hurt women. that is a very sobering point to end on. thank you very much for talking to us about that.
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let's talk now about the community in plymouth that began grieving last night and it is likely to be doing a great deal more individually and collectively in order to try to deal with or at least process at this terrible series of events that unfolded over a matter of minutes, six minutes, on thursday night. tonight, a vigil will take place in the area. let's talk to the right reverend robert atwell, bishop of exeter. he joins us from exeter. thank you for being with us on what has been a very difficult 24 hours for the community in plymouth. could you talk a bit about what the church is have been trying to do in the community in four since the news broke? �* ., ., , ., , broke? along with others, i am 'ust rofoundl broke? along with others, i am 'ust profoundly shocked i broke? along with others, i am 'ust profoundly shocked with i broke? along with others, i am 'ust profoundly shocked with what h broke? along with others, i am just profoundly shocked with what has l profoundly shocked with what has happened. the two local churches,
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saint thomases and saint marks, and indeed the primary school, have been open all day. i think the residents havejust been stunned open all day. i think the residents have just been stunned by what has happened. i know plymouth well, i love it, it's a great city. it is a city of peace, save for this virus to break out it is devastating for this community. keyham is a very close—knit community, people have been traumatised by this. we have been going to the churches, lighting candles and just talking, needing to share their experiences. night at the local park people are gathering for a candlelit vigil, just to remember the victims of this terrible shooting, and they are not letting the darkness win. tonight the people of devon are standing in solidarity with them. we are holding a light in the darkness for the
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people of keyham. istate a light in the darkness for the people of keyham.— a light in the darkness for the people of keyham. we will take a look at some _ people of keyham. we will take a look at some pictures _ people of keyham. we will take a look at some pictures from - people of keyham. we will take a look at some pictures from the i people of keyham. we will take a i look at some pictures from the area while you and i are talking. these are some pictures of people gathering in the park to express their condolences. you said unity against the darkness of this event was up one of the things people perhaps do not always appreciate in a city like plymouth is that because of the dockyard, that is kind of a common identity, because lots of people work for a single employer, therefore all the other community elements of that at a time like this kind of pull people together. you are absolutely _ kind of pull people together. wi, are absolutely right, because keyham is close to the old naval dockyard. my is close to the old naval dockyard. my goodness, that community took a battering in the last world war.
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when you look at the photographs of how plymouth was flattened with the bombings. yet this community is extraordinarily resilient, it rebuilt itself out of the water. i can see now with the way people have been coming together, i know they will also find within themselves and among one another at the resilience to rebuild their community after the resilience to rebuild their community after this trauma, which is why this vigil and what has been happening today in the churches and will continue over the weekend is so important for rebuilding their self—confidence. important for rebuilding their self-confidence.— important for rebuilding their self-confidence. �* , ., ,, self-confidence. bishops, thank you ve much self-confidence. bishops, thank you very much for— self-confidence. bishops, thank you very much for being _ self-confidence. bishops, thank you very much for being with _ self-confidence. bishops, thank you very much for being with us. - self-confidence. bishops, thank you very much for being with us. i - self-confidence. bishops, thank you very much for being with us. i am i very much for being with us. i am sorry we are talking about something as sad as this. as you say, hopefully a lot of support and love will be expressed in the coming days in the city and throughout the county. let me bring you some unrelated news. a stabbing incident
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has happened in oxford street in about the last 90 minutes or so. london and berlin services was called to reports of a stabbing on oxford street. —— london ambulance service. a man believed to be in his 20s was found to be suffering with multiple stab injuries. he has been taken to hospital, they are waiting for an update on his condition. a crime scene has been established in the area, and of course at the police are anxious to hear from anyone who might be able to give them information relating to this stabbing on oxford street in a central london this evening. it would have been very busy time, 7:15pm, many book shop still open at that time on a friday evening. if we get any more on that or on the condition the young man injured, we will bring it to hear bbc news. taliban militants have captured huge swathes of aghanistan in recent days,
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and the un is urging afghanistan's neighbours to keep their borders open, so tens of thousands of people fleeing the violence can escape to safety. the taliban now control 17 provincial capitals across afghanistan, including pul—e—alam, just 45 miles south of kabul as the militants continue their march towards the capital. here, borisjohnson has said there's no military solution to the crisis, insisting that the uk will instead use diplomatic leverage and foreign aid spending to "exert what pressure" it can. he was speaking after an emergency cobra meeting on friday afternoon. as everyone can see, the situation in afghanistan has deteriorated, and as i said in the house of commons a few weeks ago, we could see this coming for some time, and we'd have to make preparations to pull out, and that's what's going on now, that moment has now come. so in the course of the next few days, we will see the vast bulk of uk embassy staff officials come
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back, and we will step up our efforts to bring back those afghans who have helped us, helped the uk, helped international forces throughout the last 20 years, and in addition to the 2000 who have already come out, and to help then we are sending out another team of home office officials to help them with their applications and get them out. and, obviously, we are appealing to those who have association with the uk, who want to come out now to come forward and identify themselves. i think what i would say at this stage is that it is very difficult, obviously, but i think the uk can be extremely proud of what has been done in afghanistan over the last 20 years. don't forget that the combat mission ended in 2014.
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there isn't a military solution, but thanks to the efforts of the uk armed services, all the sacrifices they made, we have seen no al-qaeda attacks against the west for a very long time, and there are millions of girls and young women who have been educated in afghanistan, thanks to the efforts of the uk, and the british armed services, and i think we can be very proud of that. but things are going in the opposite direction now. how worried are you that afghanistan is going to become a breeding ground for terrorists, and isn't there an argument to go in the opposite direction and perhaps to have a permanent troop presence once again? i think we've got to be realistic about the abilities of the uk, or any power, to impose a military solution, a combat solution in afghanistan. what we certainly can do is work with all our partners in the region
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and around the world, who share an interest with others in preventing afghanistan from once again becoming a breeding ground for terror. and i think anybody in government in kabul is going to recognise that the west, the uk, have a permanent interest in making sure that that does not happen, and so we are going to use our diplomatic, our political, our overseas development aid budget leverage to make sure that we exert what pressure we can, and we will continue to do that, but i think the idea of a military or a combat solution is not one that we should be pursuing right now. it's a grim reality, as we approach the 20th anniversary of 9/11, what do you say to military families who lost their loved ones in afghanistan, some of whom are now saying they feel that their loved ones died in vain? first of all, i share the sorrow
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of all the families who have lost loved ones over the last 20 years, the 457 british troops, serving men and women, who were killed in that conflict, many of them in helmand. i thank them for the immensity of their sacrifice, thank theirfamilies for what they have gone through, and i know how they must feel at the moment, but i must say to them, i don't believe it was in vain, because i do think, when you look back at what has happened over the last 20 years, there was a massive effort to deal with a particular problem. everybody will remember after 9/11, and that was successful, and to a very large extent, the threat from al-qaeda on the streets of our capital, around the uk, around the whole of the west, was greatly, greatly reduced, and there was the further advantage that millions, i think 3 million girls, young women, were educated
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he would not otherwise have been who would not otherwise have been educated, so what i would say to those families now, i understand what you feel but i believe it was right, it was worth it, and what we must do now is not turn our backs on afghanistan. but continue as a member of the security council, a country deeply involved in the strategic future of the area to work with our partners and make sure that the government of kabul does not allow that country again to be a breeding ground for terror. if anyone has suggested it was a mistake for us to withdraw troops, he said the doha deal was a rotten deal. do you agree with your defence secretary, and if so, why won't you pushing against it at the time? the american government obviously has decided to take a particular course of action, and that is one that has the inevitable logical consequence that i set out in the house of commons, several weeks ago, and the situation has now evolved
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in exactly the direction that we said it would. we have to deal with those consequences, that's why we are taking the steps that we are over the next few days to evacuate the vast bulk of our embassy personnel and then we can continue to evacuate those that have helped us, in addition to the 2000 that are already here. now it's time for a look at the weather with tomasz. today actually hasn't been too bad for many of us, especially if you live in northern and eastern england, lots of sunshine around and quite warm. tomorrow more cloud on the way and some fleeting outbreaks of rain, mostly across western parts of rain, mostly across western parts of the country. they weather this weekend is going to be a little hit and mist. shower clouds in scotland,
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thicker cloud that we had earlier on. it is pretty clear through this evening and northern areas. a next area of weather is approaching us, it's a low pressure and is weather front should reach ireland during the early hours of saturday morning. ahead of it, a lot of cloud, a little bit of drizzle, mild ayr, temperatures are not going to drop low overnight. cloud spreading northwards but it will never reach central scotland. it looks as though glasgow and edinburgh are going to get away with a relatively bright day. outbreaks of rain across the irish sea, the north—west of england, merseyside. south of that cloud will break up from cornwall to count, particularly southern england so that could be a decent spells of sunshine saturday afternoon, while around western coasts and northern
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ireland it may well stay cloudy throughout the day. when the front still on top of us on a sunday meaning inevitable cloud and outbreaks of rain. never particularly heavy or prolonged. southern areas will have the best of the weather, for example, around the coasts of sussex and kent. in scotland it will also be some sunny spells, but plenty of showers in the far north of scotland. it's going to be quite cool in the north because we have northerly winds that will start sunday but also spread on monday across the country. all the way from the north atlantic and the norwegian sea. a lot of cloud with some sunny spells. enjoy the weekend.
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travesty this is bbc news, with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. fears for kabul — as taliban militants now control a third of all regional capitals in afghanistan — after capturing the country's second city — kandahar. for a majority of the population, they are waiting to see how things will unfold, with a mixture of fear, anger and resignation. fears mount of a major humanitarian crisis, as families flee the escalating conflict to already overcrowded camps. in the uk — a father and his three—year—old daughter are among the victims named by police in the country's worst mass shooting since 2010. much of southern europe continues to bake. bone dry, after one of the hottest
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