to withdraw american troops from afghanistan, saying the goals of the us mission had been counter—terrorism, not nation—building. he also said he had made clear to the taliban that any attack on us personnel would be met with devastating force if necessary. the us and britain say they'll send more troops to the afghan capital to help the evacuation of hundreds of people desperate to escape kabul after the taliban takeover. there have been chaotic scenes at the airport, with people clinging to, and then falling from, planes taking off. a tropical storm has made landfall in haiti, drenching the country with heavy rain as it deals with the aftermath of saturday's powerful earthquak. at least 1,400 people were killed in the quake and almost 7,000 injured.

time now here on bbc news for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, in the end, it wasn't about firepower or troop numbers, end, it wasn't about firepower ortroop numbers, in or troop numbers, in afghanistan, ortroop numbers, in afghanistan, the taliban had a vital asset which the us and their allies lacked, strategic patients. two decades after they were expelled from kabul they were expelled from kabul the islamists are back in power. us and british troops are scrambling to complete a humiliating evacuation. my guest is british conservative mp and former soldier tobias elwood. this looks like an historic defeat for western power. how damaging could the consequences be? tobias elwood,

welcome to hardtalk.— welcome to hardtalk. thank you for havin: welcome to hardtalk. thank you for having me. _ welcome to hardtalk. thank you for having me. i— welcome to hardtalk. thank you for having me. i am _ welcome to hardtalk. thank you for having me. i am sure - welcome to hardtalk. thank you for having me. i am sure that. for having me. i am sure that ou, for having me. i am sure that you. like _ for having me. i am sure that you. like the _ for having me. i am sure that you, like the rest _ for having me. i am sure that you, like the rest of- for having me. i am sure that you, like the rest of us, - for having me. i am sure that you, like the rest of us, have i you, like the rest of us, have been watching the scenes of chaos, of fear in kabul over the next few hours and days. fear, particularly singing at kabul airport. when you watch those scenes, what are your feelings?— feelings? well, personally i had a journey _ feelings? well, personally i had a journey of _ feelings? well, personally i had a journey of discovery l feelings? well, personally i i had a journey of discovery with afghanistan, back in 2002, my brother was killed in the bali bombing, and i really cannot understand what happened there, why somebody like my brother,

who was a teacher out there was targeted and killed, and they then tried to understand, go to afghanistan and see what we were doing, following the invasion, to target the terrorists, to deal with those and rebuild a country. i must have visited the afghanistan about a dozen times and amazed to see the military engage them very very personally indeed, but i was slightly concerned that not enough effort was made to understand the people of afghanistan, the history, the tribal structures, the governance as well, and to then learn that we are now departing this way because of a political adjustment, a false judgement in my view by the united states, that is very very disturbing, to see afghani people to see the danger that they put themselves and by hanging onto the side of us aircraft taking off from the international airport, some of them falling off at high altitude, that shows you what the demise of the country that we looked after for two years,

and i think we are seeing huge scenes of desperation play out, but the west should hang its head in shame. we are taking afghanistan to another civil war after two decades. lise war after two decades. use because the _ war after two decades. use because the chair— war after two decades. use because the chair the - because the chair the parliamentary defence committee, you have been in parliament for 16 years, on the conservative benches, the conservative benches, the conservative party has been running the uk foreign policy for more than half of the period in which uk troops have beenin period in which uk troops have been in afghanistan, so when you talk about shame, when you talk about failure, do you acknowledge that your own party must own that failure when it comes to uk policy? we must own that failure when it comes to uk policy? we need to ut this comes to uk policy? we need to put this into _ comes to uk policy? we need to put this into perspective - comes to uk policy? we need to put this into perspective as - comes to uk policy? we need to put this into perspective as to i put this into perspective as to what has just happened. we have not been discussing afghanistan in the international media for the last three years, on the scale of which we were doing in the first decade, the afghan forces were managing, they were

coping, we had a minimalist international presence there, there were more troops in britain than there were in afghanistan, more british troops in cyprus than they were in afghanistan. we were just having enough to give our superiority and intelligence to give the afghan forces the edge, so they could canteen the taliban, and that gave legitimacy to the afghan government. some errors were made about the governing structure that is appropriate to afghanistan, but things were working out. sadly it became a presidential election issue, and if you ask me what the failures of my own government, not to stand up to our closest security ally and saying this is the wrong call, americans want to pull out in this way, symbolically pull out, britain should then have the courage to step in to that vacuum because if america does not lead, britain should, but instead, everybody has followed suit, and now we see the demise of a

country, a failed states develop, or because of the politicaljudgement by firstly president trump and then very sadly by president biden. i sadly by president biden. i will come back to the geopolitics, of this very soon because the points you made are clearly very important, but right now, i think all of us are very much focused on what we are seeing happen in kabul and afghanistan hour by hour. there are many many thousands of afghans who clearly fear for their lives. they believe if they stay in the country, they may well be persecuted by, imprisoned by and maybe even worse by the taliban, the new power in kabul. do we have a clear moral obligation in your view to take thousands of afghans who want to come to britain, partly because many of them worked for the uk forces and diplomatic effort over the past few years?—

and diplomatic effort over the past few years? yes, we should make it clear _ past few years? yes, we should make it clear as _ past few years? yes, we should make it clear as to _ past few years? yes, we should make it clear as to why - past few years? yes, we should make it clear as to why there i make it clear as to why there is danger there, it comes in two sections i suppose. firstly, those afghans who worked with coalition forces are now being persecuted, and they will be punished by the taliban is captured. women who have received any form of education are also being challenged, girls who have been in schooling that i now being pushed into forced marriages, and on top of that, the wider danger of where this civil war will go. if you have been to afghanistan you understand that there is a sense of supporting whoever it is that is the winning team connor and if it looks like the afghan government was supported by the international community, they would get by now, but if that situation changes in the taliban look like they are up at the other hand, people will switch alliance because they simply want to stay alive. cities fell very rapidly. the

was back, tribal structures, they melted into the ether, but they melted into the ether, but they will be re— arming right now, regrouping, the northern alliance is something you may rememberfrom alliance is something you may remember from the previous civil war, that will once again be reinvigorated. there are tribes that don't like the taliban either, and that is... i understand civil war may be looming, ijust want i understand civil war may be looming, i just want to know very specifically right now, what you're feeling is about for example, rory stewart, a former tory mp, who says that right now, britain does have to accept a clear moral duty to accept a clear moral duty to accept many many afghans into the united kingdom and offer them political asylum, he says there are literally millions of people who the uk, us and other nato forces must acknowledge they have a responsibility for. do you agree?— do you agree? absolutely. sor , i do you agree? absolutely. sorry. i was _ do you agree? absolutely. sorry, i wasjust _ do you agree? absolutely. sorry, i wasjust painting l do you agree? absolutely. l sorry, i wasjust painting the sorry, i was just painting the picture as to why there is such

real danger that afghans face, and we are because of that, and we are already seeing nation such canada and germany open their doors. there needs to be a co—ordinated approach. truth? a co-ordinated approach. why haven't we? — a co-ordinated approach. why haven't we? as _ a co-ordinated approach. why haven't we? as canada - a co—ordinated approach. why haven't we? as canada says, immediately, we will take 20,000, germany said immediately we will take 10,000. there has been no such declaration from the uk. why? they are struggling with the bandwidth right now to deal with what we are seeing. they are dealing with the immediate operational requirement of the evacuation, and that alone, looking ahead as to the long—term consequences, our responsibilities and duties to those people who are left behind, but no doubt, we will then have to come to this. iliaiith then have to come to this. with then have to come to this. with the greatest of _ then have to come to this. with the greatest of respect, - then have to come to this. with the greatest of respect, your party colleague, the home secretary had the bandwidth within the last 2a hours to say

my goodness, we may well face another surge of afghan refugees, this is all the more reason to tell the friends they have to beefed up their resources on the channel to stop them getting to britain. suggest to me that the british government's focus is not on a moral duty to help these people, it's on trying to keep afghans out. people, it's on trying to keep afghans out-— people, it's on trying to keep afghans out. that isolationist a - roach afghans out. that isolationist approach will _ afghans out. that isolationist approach will get _ afghans out. that isolationist approach will get us - afghans out. that isolationist approach will get us nowhere | approach will get us nowhere and one of the reasons why perhaps our place on the international stage is somewhat diminished. we need to be evaluated, we need to recognise our responsibility, our duty as to what we have done over the last two decades, and we have departed as having huge consequences, including mass migration that you see i've displaced people and also those seeking asylum. what i was trying to lead to is that what i would like to see britain do, whether they do it is another matter, but as a component member of the united nations security council, taking us up to a higher level, to recognise

that we should be as welcome as canada and germany, but, that the burden should be shared among all those countries that participated, but also to support the need during two neighbouring countries which will no doubt have to take a fair burden of this as well. to be clear. _ fair burden of this as well. to be clear, and again you are an influential conservative mp, it would be your view that for example, as a symbolic first step, the uk government should say to all of the afghans currently in the uk waiting for a decision on their asylum claim, and that is we believe around 3000 at the moment, that they should be given a clear sign that their asylum applications will be approved, simply because the situation in afghanistan has now changed, the taliban is in power, we regard them as an organisation that has conducted abuse over many years. do we need to say, quite clearly, if you are from afghanistan, you make it to the uk, you seek asylum, you will

get it? uk, you seek asylum, you will et it? ., uk, you seek asylum, you will let it? ., . ., , get it? you certainly will need to recognise _ get it? you certainly will need to recognise that _ get it? you certainly will need to recognise that following . get it? you certainly will need| to recognise that following the strategic defeat by the west, including the uk, that there needs to be a fundamental review of our asylum process, to be able to co—ordinate and manage the influx of large numbers of afghanis that will likely be asylum in the uk. the numbers, i'm not sure as to what they would look like, which is why i said this needs to be co—ordinated as an international level, but your premise of having to review where we currently set in this darkidea where we currently set in this dark idea that we somehow need to protect ourselves of the coast of dover, that needs to be put to bed. d0 coast of dover, that needs to be put to bed.— be put to bed. do you think our be put to bed. do you think your government _ be put to bed. do you think your government has - be put to bed. do you think your government has been | be put to bed. do you think- your government has been asleep over the wheel over the last few days and weeks? the foreign secretary was on holiday until yesterday, borisjohnson has had very little, the only person who has been frank about

their situation is the defence secretary who has talked about a failure of the international community and was almost in tearsjust hours ago community and was almost in tears just hours ago saying that he feared that all the people britain owed an obligation to would not be able to make it out of afghanistan to make it out of afghanistan to britain, as he believed they should be allowed to do. the british government overall looks like a terrible mess, doesn't it?— looks like a terrible mess, doesn't it? �* . ., doesn't it? ben wallace, the defence secretary _ doesn't it? ben wallace, the defence secretary is - doesn't it? ben wallace, the defence secretary is in - doesn't it? ben wallace, the defence secretary is in a - defence secretary is in a terrible situation having to deal with this circumstances. i know he is hugely concerned about the american decision, which i think the american nation will live to regret. but you are right and what you say. i came into politics because i wanted to see britain play a more influential role on the international stage, and i think we have a region understanding, and appreciation of the world around us that we are trusted as well, and a desire to be a force for good, but i'm afraid i've recently

having distracted by brexit, and by covid as well, and whitehall simply has not the bandwidth to step up to the plate. we had great statements made at the g7, global britain, it's all about britain returning to the international stage, joe biden was seeing america is back, to give greater resolve on purpose to what the west stands for, what we believe and are willing to defend, yet here we are on our own watch, the biggest most mightiest international military alliance ever assembled, defeated by an insurgency arm to simply with ak-47s insurgency arm to simply with ak—ll7s and landmines. the insurgency arm to simply with ak-47s and landmines. the uk parliament _ ak-47s and landmines. the uk parliament is _ ak-47s and landmines. the uk parliament is sitting _ ak-47s and landmines. the uk parliament is sitting in - ak-47s and landmines. the uk parliament is sitting in just - parliament is sitting in just 48 hours time to discuss this, but there will be no sort of binding vote as i understand it, and you say that nothing short of a full enquiry as to what britain did in afghanistan over the past 20 years will be sufficient to match the gravity of this crisis. do you think you will get a full official

enquiry? i asked for the enquiry at the liaison committee where chairs of committees can directly ask the prime minister questions and he said no. my first question to the prime minister on wednesday will be, will you now reconsider? we need a full enquiry as to what has happened over the last couple of months but also the last 20 years. and on the recall itself, i actually requested that a couple of days ago and was so pleased to hear that this was happening, an opportunity for mps, colleagues to make their comments about this retreat and ask the government to reconsider, but i've now learned that it will only be a one line wet, there will not even be a vote on what has happened. at least with the iraq war, mp's views could be monitored and registered for history to show what they thought. not in this case and i am deeply saddened that we're

not taking this opportunity to the vacuum, to suggest a fresh coalition is formed before we see the demise of a country that we have been so engaged in what two decades. you that we have been so engaged in what two decades.— what two decades. you are a former soldier, _ what two decades. you are a former soldier, tobias - what two decades. you are a i former soldier, tobias elwood, let mejust read former soldier, tobias elwood, let me just read to you a comment from another former soldier, jack cummings, he was a soldier in the royal engineers, he lost both legs and afghanistan serving with the british army stopper he wrote this on twitter. did i lose my legs for nothing? it looks like it. did my mates die in vain? yep. many emotions are going through my head right now, anger, betrayal, sadness. what would you say to him? it is completely disheartening. the fact that we have so quickly given up to follow the united states, i've visited helmand province a dozen times over the last ten or 12 years and always amazed to see the

bravery of armed forces personnel and the work that they were doing to build up local capabilities. every time i went there was very saddened to see that the good work we were doing, the umbrella of security that we provided was not being leveraged with proper development programmes to get the economy working, build infrastructure and so forth and thatis infrastructure and so forth and that is absolutely critical to win over the hearts and minds of the local people and the consequence of that is, i remember flying consequence of that is, i rememberflying over the consequence of that is, i remember flying over the dam, seeing the aerosol delivered a decade earlier, it was laying there next to the dam still in its bubblewrap, and projects like that or the absence of completion of projects was right across the board in afghanistan. we didn't do enoughin afghanistan. we didn't do enough in the time that we were there. it took us five years

before we even started training and afghan force, in 2005, that's when we began in earnest. we waited four years. by earnest. we waited four years. by the time we did that, the teller but had started to retrain themselves and on the point about our relationship with the united states, the west has had its reputation kicked sideways, as indeed nato has and i'm sure russia and china will be watching this very, very carefully. how do we stand up and challenge the erosion of the international rules based order as we promised to do. we signed a charter to do exactly that and yet we followed the united states, we followed donald trump. this is a matter actually considered taking the united states out of nato, so we need to review the decision—making at the very top and ask ourselves whether it is still 0k to be able to take on challenges, small, workable challenges, small, workable challenges such as afghanistan. it's not a complicated solution

that you require for the country but you do need the right one and it is notjust a literary means alone. right one and it is not 'ust a literary means aloneh right one and it is not 'ust a literary means alone. you raise an important — literary means alone. you raise an important point _ literary means alone. you raise an important point about - literary means alone. you raise an important point about the i an important point about the geopolitical context. this is what the global times in ageing which pretty reliably reflect the views of the chinese government, this is what it has got in an editorial today. the us has suffered total humiliation in afghanistan stop if it can suffer such catastrophic defeat, who will trust its judgement in east asia or the south china sea? it's quite clear what the chinese read into what has just happened, isn't it? chinese read into what has 'ust happened, isn't mfi happened, isn't it? that's completely _ happened, isn't it? that's completely right. - happened, isn't it? that's completely right. this - happened, isn't it? that's completely right. this is i happened, isn't it? that's. completely right. this is the bizarre change which i don't understand and us foreign policy shift, focusing to address the longer term great power rivalries with china and russia and so forth, and ironically trump and indeed joe biden misses the bigger pick to hear. look where afghanistan sets, between these three great competitors that we have.

china, russia and iran. would have not made sense to stay close to the afghan people given this importance of the global real estate as power shifts? instead we are abandoning it and we leave that vacuum, and countries all around including pakistan and india will now to exploit and further their own agendas. the oint is, further their own agendas. the point is. you — further their own agendas. the point is. you say _ further their own agendas. the point is, you say all of this to me, just wonder if you are saying it to your own party boss and prime minister boris johnson? because borisjohnson johnson? because boris johnson is johnson? because borisjohnson is saying nothing of what you are saying, and we see no indication that the uk government perceives that its strategic interest right now is telling the americans that it is making a fundamental mistake?— is making a fundamental mistake? �* ., ., ., ~' mistake? i'm honoured to think that ou mistake? i'm honoured to think that you think _ mistake? i'm honoured to think that you think i _ mistake? i'm honoured to think that you think i have _ mistake? i'm honoured to think that you think i have a - mistake? i'm honoured to think that you think i have a direct i that you think i have a direct line to this government and they listen to me. i’m line to this government and they listen to me.— they listen to me. i'm not sa in: they listen to me. i'm not saying that. _ they listen to me. i'm not saying that, i'm _ they listen to me. i'm not saying that, i'm saying i they listen to me. i'm not saying that, i'm saying if| they listen to me. i'm not. saying that, i'm saying if you don't think the uk government listens to you at all, is there any point you sitting on the government benches? i any point you sitting on the government benches? i don't sit on the government _ government benches? i don't sit on the government benches. - government benches? i don't sitj on the government benches. i'm not a government minister. i

provide oversight of what government does.- provide oversight of what government does. well, with res - ect, government does. well, with respect. use _ government does. well, with respect, use it _ government does. well, with respect, use it on _ government does. well, with respect, use it on the - respect, use it on the government side of the house of commons. to me, that means that you, in the broadest sense remain very loyal to boris johnson and in the course of this interview i am wondering why. this interview i am wondering wh . ~ this interview i am wondering wh . . , , , ., why. well, because there is a reneral why. well, because there is a general trajectory, _ why. well, because there is a general trajectory, a - why. well, because there is a general trajectory, a general| general trajectory, a general direction of where i want my country to go and that fits in with the conservative principles that i stand up for but we are dealing with particularforeign policy approach here which i find myself in disagreement with my own government. i made it very, very clear. i would like us to be far more energetic, far more engaging and proactive on the international stage and i am frustrated that we are not doing more. we lack the bandwidth in whitehall to be able to currently do this. there are too many plates spinning and number ten for those in power to be able to make thesejudgements, those in power to be able to make these judgements, step or, recognise the picture, but to see what's coming over the

horizon as well and in this case, the first alarm bells that were bringing was when donald trump gave permission for thousands of taliban prisoners to be released and then made the commitment to return trips home before the deal had been termed. that was the beginning of the end. [30 the beginning of the end. do ou the beginning of the end. do you think the boris johnson you think the borisjohnson government has the bandwidth to understand that they are now, in the very near future, could be a very real surge in the terror threat coming from afghanistan? we know that thousands of prisoners have been newly released from bagram, some of them very dangerous militants. general john allen and afghanistan saying that al-qaeda could be operating openly from the hindu kush region with us forces gone. as you said at the beginning of this interview, you know all too well personally the dangers that

come with islamist terrorism because you lost your brother in the bali bomb attack. do you think your government has any idea how dangerous the situation could become now? i think we are slowly waking up to that and i completely agree with generaljohn allen, a close friend of mine, and what they believe will happen now, very sadly, as the terrorists will take full advantage of the vacuum that will be left to return to afghanistan to plot another attack on the scale of 9/11 in order to bookend, if you like, ourtime 9/11 in order to bookend, if you like, our time in the country, to make the very blunt port, of how futile the last two decades have been. you really believe _ two decades have been. you really believe that? - two decades have been. you really believe that? that what you believe will happen next is that the al-qaeda and other militant islamist groups will

seek to launch new attacks on the west, as you say, to sort of book into the 9/11 attacks 20 years ago?— of book into the 9/11 attacks 20 years ago? yes. this is now their ability _ 20 years ago? yes. this is now their ability to _ 20 years ago? yes. this is now their ability to recruit _ 20 years ago? yes. this is now their ability to recruit is - 20 years ago? yes. this is now their ability to recruit is by - their ability to recruit is by proving that they have stood up to the mighty west, particularly the united states and they will do so by celebrating with an attack on the west. now what might check thatis the west. now what might check that is the ironic fact that the americans are not actually leaving afghanistan. the cia will remain as well special forces as well, because they absolutely will be haunted by such an event taking place, so you are left with this awkward situation of the americans trying to stay on top of the terrorist threat that will now grow in afghanistan against the west, particularly in the united states, or united states interests around the world. tobias elwood, i thank you very much indeed forjoining me on

hardtalk, thank you. hello there. we're looking at a pretty benign week of weather. we've got high—pressure fairly nearby, but a lot of cloud streaming in off the north atlantic, bringing us rather cool and cloudy conditions throughout the week. a little bit of sunshine here and there, but there will also be some patchy rain, too. these weather fronts bringing the patchy rain through this morning. generally, though, we've got this airflow coming in from the north atlantic, and it's moisture—laden air, hence all the cloud. so, rather grey skies this morning, that patchy rain eventually clearing away from the eastern side of england. there will be further patchy rain

for northern and western hills, but many places will turn drier, and we could see some sunshine breaking through eastern scotland, eastern england, perhaps across south wales and the southwest. a breezy day to come, those winds quite fresh from the northwest, and temperatures pretty disappointing for mid—august, generally 15—21 degrees in the sunnier spots further south. and we hold onto the cloud and the breeze through tuesday night, as well. most places will be dry, further spots of drizzle, though, across some western hills, especially, especially northern and western scotland. but with all the cloud cover and the breeze, temperatures no lower than around 11—15 degrees. so then, for wednesday, very little change — it looks similar, rather grey and breezy once again, further patchy drizzle across some northern and western hills. but again, with some shelter from the breeze, from the higher ground further west, we should see some sunny spells, again, eastern england, perhaps across the south

of wales and southwest. again, that pushes temperatures up to 21 degrees — otherwise for most, mid—to—high teens. into thursday, some subtle changes. this weather front�*s a bit more active, it'll start to wriggle into parts of england and wales. the winds will be lighter on thursday, too, coming in from a more west—southwest direction. again, a lot of cloud around, but we'll have these showers pushing into england and wales — thanks to that weatherfront, some of these could be on the heavy side. a bit of sunshine again towards the southwest, highs of 20—21 degrees, otherwise, again, mid—to—high teens. as we move out of thursday into friday, we start to see this more substantial area of low pressure sweeping up very slowly from the southwest. so, that'll change the wind direction to a south—westerly for many of us, it will be light with breeze. again, quite a bit of cloud around, a few sunny spells here and there, the more substantial rain pushing into northern ireland and later, western england and wales. and again, those temperatures range from 15—20 celsius.

you will get a full official enquiry?

this is bbc news. i'm sally bundock with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. president biden defends his decision to withdraw troops from afghanistan, saying the mission is counter—terrorism, not nation—building. i stand squarely behind my decision. after 20 years, i have learned the hard way that there was never a good time to withdraw us forces. more than 60 countries issue a joint statement calling on the taliban to allow people to leave afghanistan. haiti's suffering continues. after the deadly earthquake, a tropical storm makes landfall on the island. and the mystery of the

missing manuscripts — the work of the controversial french writer that reappeared