this is bbc world news — the headlines. president biden says the us has made clear to the taliban that any attack on the afghan evacuation mission would be met quickly and with force. mr biden said he was in constant contact with the taliban. nato's secretary general, jens stoltenberg, says several of the bloc�*s members have suggested extending the deadline for evacuations out of kabul airport beyond the thirty—first of august. borisjohnson says he has full confidence in his foreign secretary dominic raab after criticism over his handling of the crisis. mr raab has come under pressure, forfailing to call the afghan foreign minister over evacuation plans. there's been mounting anger in haiti over the slow delivery of aid to areas affected by saturday's earthquake. damage to roads is hampering access. more than 2,000 people died in the quake. many more were injured. at ten 0'clock, clive myrie will be here with a full round—up

of the days news. first, the media show hello. i do finally in a position to make some money out of social media? well, the big—name companies do very nicely, thank you, out of what you post on what you share, but have the tables turned in favour of the individual? can we all make cash with our latest musical composition or the recipe we lovingly demonstrate if we are a little bit smart about it? well, websites like patreon offer fans the ability to pay their favourite artists and writers directly. tiktok and facebook have started offering cash to the most popular creators. so is there money to be made in the so—called creative economy, and help

we meet at the big beasts, facebook, youtube, tiktok, about the competition and he was moderating all of this online? let me introduce you to our guests. the co—founder and now the chief technical officer of patreon and in a few sentences, sam, give us a brief flavour of what patreon is and what it does. thanks for havin: patreon is and what it does. thanks for having me- _ patreon is and what it does. thanks for having me. patreon _ patreon is and what it does. thanks for having me. patreon is _ for having me. patreon is effectively a platform for creators to get paid in an ongoing sustainable way to their community and in return their community gets access to exclusive content, access to the creators and in cases a safe environment for their community. we will expand on that in the next 25 minutes a comic also. becky flint is a social media is due, influence and founder of a social media marketing agency. how do you spot the next big youtube star? i agency. how do you spot the next big youtube star?— youtube star? i think the really imortant youtube star? i think the really important thing _ youtube star? i think the really important thing to _ youtube star? i think the really important thing to remember. youtube star? i think the really - important thing to remember about social_ important thing to remember about social media is often we are going there _ social media is often we are going there to _ social media is often we are going there to see unpolished is better,

almost _ there to see unpolished is better, almost. we are looking for things that are _ almost. we are looking for things that are releasable and almost kind of more _ that are releasable and almost kind of more attainable than the typical celebrity— of more attainable than the typical celebrity and i think that's the secret — celebrity and i think that's the secret. , ~ . ~ celebrity and i think that's the secret. , . ., ,, secret. chris walker has written books about _ secret. chris walker has written books about youtube _ secret. chris walker has written books about youtube and - secret. chris walker has written books about youtube and a - secret. chris walker has written i books about youtube and a tiktok secret. chris walker has written - books about youtube and a tiktok as well. i wound with tiktok in mind, chris, to what extent has it been the year tiktok 202i chris, to what extent has it been the year tiktok 2021 because it seems to have come out of nowhere. it has. nobody can be a beneficiary of the _ it has. nobody can be a beneficiary of the pandemic— it has. nobody can be a beneficiary of the pandemic i— it has. nobody can be a beneficiary of the pandemic i think— it has. nobody can be a beneficiary of the pandemic i thinkjulian- it has. nobody can be a beneficiary of the pandemic i thinkjulian but. of the pandemic i thinkjulian but tiktok— of the pandemic i thinkjulian but tiktok has — of the pandemic i thinkjulian but tiktok has done _ of the pandemic i thinkjulian but tiktok has done that _ of the pandemic i thinkjulian but tiktok has done that survival - of the pandemic i thinkjulian but tiktok has done that survival a l tiktok has done that survival a little _ tiktok has done that survival a little bit — tiktok has done that survival a little bit better. _ tiktok has done that survival a little bit better. in— tiktok has done that survival a little bit better. in march- tiktok has done that survival a little bit better. in march 2021 | tiktok has done that survival a i little bit better. in march 2021 we spent _ little bit better. in march 2021 we spent as — little bit better. in march 2021 we spent as much_ little bit better. in march 2021 we spent as much time _ little bit better. in march 2021 we spent as much time on _ little bit better. in march 2021 we spent as much time on the - little bit better. in march 2021 we spent as much time on the app i little bit better. in march 2021 we | spent as much time on the app as little bit better. in march 2021 we - spent as much time on the app as we did from _ spent as much time on the app as we did from the — spent as much time on the app as we did from the stone _ spent as much time on the app as we did from the stone age _ spent as much time on the app as we did from the stone age until- spent as much time on the app as we did from the stone age until today i did from the stone age until today so that— did from the stone age until today so that gives — did from the stone age until today so that gives us _ did from the stone age until today so that gives us an _ did from the stone age until today so that gives us an idea _ did from the stone age until today so that gives us an idea just - did from the stone age until today so that gives us an idea just how l so that gives us an idea just how much _ so that gives us an idea just how much we — so that gives us an idea just how much we are _ so that gives us an idea just how much we are addicted _ so that gives us an idea just how much we are addicted to - so that gives us an idea just how much we are addicted to all- so that gives us an idea just howl much we are addicted to all those creators — much we are addicted to all those creators. . ., much we are addicted to all those creators. . . ~ , creators. including a weekly newsletter— creators. including a weekly newsletter before _ creators. including a weekly newsletter before that - creators. including a weekly newsletter before that she i creators. including a weekly i newsletter before that she covered tech the c we are going to hear the words creator and influence that i suspect quite a lot in the next 25 minutes. what was not the difference?— minutes. what was not the difference? , , .,

difference? so, this has been a huge toic of difference? so, this has been a huge tonic of debate _ difference? so, this has been a huge topic of debate for _ difference? so, this has been a huge topic of debate for some _ difference? so, this has been a huge topic of debate for some people. i difference? so, this has been a huge topic of debate for some people. forj topic of debate for some people. for me i really think they are interchangeable. i think a few years ago we would have said instagram influence and a youtube creator but i think creator has become the mob the third world now but i don't think there's a huge difference between them. it really refers to someone who has a following online and this can, creating content. let me stay with you for a moment on the status quo and what we might be changing from. save the sake of argument, someone has an instagram following of 100,000 people. how is she or he making money based on those 100,000 at the moment? the most common _ those 100,000 at the moment? tue: most common way those 100,000 at the moment? t'te: most common way by those 100,000 at the moment? tt9: most common way by far those 100,000 at the moment? tt9 most common way by far a those 100,000 at the moment? t“t9 most common way by far a sponsored content, so that's promoting a product in an instagram post or any story, so that's by far the most popular way people make money but creators have really punched out. they are, you know, teaching online courses, starting podcast, selling merchandise, so there are a lot more ways to monetise but sponsored

content is still number one by far. that's status quo until at least fairly recently wasn't necessarily going to make a huge amount of money, was a? tt going to make a huge amount of money. was a?— going to make a huge amount of money, was a? it depends. it really de ends. money, was a? it depends. it really depends some _ money, was a? it depends. it really depends. some people _ money, was a? it depends. it really depends. some people i _ money, was a? it depends. it really depends. some people i talk- money, was a? it depends. it really depends. some people i talk to i money, was a? it depends. it really| depends. some people i talk to have a small leak del macneice following that they can really convert into buying things and they can make money so it really depends on the creator. the smack of a small niche following. let creator. the smack of a small niche followinu. , , :, :, following. let me bring you in on youtube, tiktok, _ following. let me bring you in on youtube, tiktok, either- following. let me bring you in on youtube, tiktok, either of- following. let me bring you in on youtube, tiktok, either of those j following. let me bring you in on i youtube, tiktok, either of those and again you are creating and influencing and let interchange the words again how much money you potentially making? 50. words again how much money you potentially making?— words again how much money you potentially making? so, there was a stud done potentially making? so, there was a study done in _ potentially making? so, there was a study done in 2016 _ potentially making? so, there was a study done in 2016 of— potentially making? so, there was a study done in 2016 of several- study done in 2016 of several million — study done in 2016 of several million youtube _ study done in 2016 of several million youtube channels i study done in 2016 of severall million youtube channels that study done in 2016 of several- million youtube channels that found that basically— million youtube channels that found that basically from _ million youtube channels that found that basically from advertising - that basically from advertising revenue — that basically from advertising revenue alone, _ that basically from advertising revenue alone, so _ that basically from advertising revenue alone, so that - that basically from advertising revenue alone, so that is i that basically from advertising revenue alone, so that is the i revenue alone, so that is the adverts — revenue alone, so that is the adverts that— revenue alone, so that is the adverts that you _ revenue alone, so that is the adverts that you see - revenue alone, so that is the adverts that you see before, | revenue alone, so that is the - adverts that you see before, during, the videos _ adverts that you see before, during, the videos that — adverts that you see before, during, the videos that you _ adverts that you see before, during, the videos that you watch _ adverts that you see before, during, the videos that you watch a - adverts that you see before, during, the videos that you watch a meetingj the videos that you watch a meeting for instance. — the videos that you watch a meeting for instance, 96.5% _ the videos that you watch a meeting for instance, 96.5% of _ the videos that you watch a meeting for instance, 96.5% of people - the videos that you watch a meeting for instance, 96.5% of people there | for instance, 96.5% of people there did not— for instance, 96.5% of people there did not get— for instance, 96.5% of people there did not get over— for instance, 96.5% of people there did not get over the _ for instance, 96.5% of people there did not get over the us— for instance, 96.5% of people there did not get over the us poverty- did not get over the us poverty line. _ did not get over the us poverty line. they— did not get over the us poverty line. they did— did not get over the us poverty line, they did not— did not get over the us poverty line, they did not make - did not get over the us povertyj line, they did not make enough did not get over the us poverty- line, they did not make enough money to even— line, they did not make enough money to even earn— line, they did not make enough money to even earn a — line, they did not make enough money to even earn a living _ line, they did not make enough money to even earn a living of _ line, they did not make enough money to even earn a living of that _ line, they did not make enough money to even earn a living of that but, - to even earn a living of that but, as crver— to even earn a living of that but, as crver said. _ to even earn a living of that but, as cryer said, there _ to even earn a living of that but, as cryer said, there are - to even earn a living of that but, as cryer said, there are lots i to even earn a living of that but, as cryer said, there are lots of. as cryer said, there are lots of other— as cryer said, there are lots of other ways _ as cryer said, there are lots of other ways that— as cryer said, there are lots of other ways that you _ as cryer said, there are lots of other ways that you can. i as cryer said, there are lots of| other ways that you can. there as cryer said, there are lots of. other ways that you can. there is the sponsored _ other ways that you can. there is the sponsored content _

other ways that you can. there is the sponsored content and - other ways that you can. there is the sponsored content and you i other ways that you can. there is i the sponsored content and you have the sponsored content and you have the opportunity— the sponsored content and you have the opportunity also _ the sponsored content and you have the opportunity also to _ the sponsored content and you have the opportunity also to do _ the opportunity also to do collaborations, _ the opportunity also to do collaborations, off—line i the opportunity also to do i collaborations, off—line events. the opportunity also to do - collaborations, off—line events. we are sailing — collaborations, off—line events. we are sailing like _ collaborations, off—line events. we are sailing like seeing _ collaborations, off—line events. we are sailing like seeing people i are sailing like seeing people setting — are sailing like seeing people setting out— are sailing like seeing people selling out arenas _ are sailing like seeing people selling out arenas for - are sailing like seeing people selling out arenas for boxingl are sailing like seeing people - selling out arenas for boxing events of the _ selling out arenas for boxing events of the back— selling out arenas for boxing events of the back of— selling out arenas for boxing events of the back of their _ selling out arenas for boxing events of the back of their online _ of the back of their online influencer_ of the back of their online influencer community- of the back of their online influencer community sol of the back of their online i influencer community so many different— influencer community so many different places. _ influencer community so many different places. youtube i influencer community so many different places. youtube and| influencer community so many - different places. youtube and tiktok of course _ different places. youtube and tiktok of course also — different places. youtube and tiktok of course also starting _ different places. youtube and tiktok of course also starting now— different places. youtube and tiktok of course also starting now to - of course also starting now to directly — of course also starting now to directly monetise _ of course also starting now to directly monetise people. i of course also starting now toj directly monetise people. but of course also starting now to directly monetise people. but that 96.5% directly monetise people. but that 96-596 figure. _ directly monetise people. but that 96.5% figure, that's _ directly monetise people. but that 96.596 figure, that's quite - directly monetise people. but that 96.596 figure, that's quite telling, | 96.5% figure, that's quite telling, isn't it? tt 96.596 figure, that's quite telling, isn't it? , ., , , 96.596 figure, that's quite telling, isn't it? , ,, , , ., isn't it? it is. i think this is a really broad _ isn't it? it is. i think this is a really broad ranging - isn't it? it is. i think this is a really broad ranging subject| isn't it? it is. i think this is a . really broad ranging subject and then m — really broad ranging subject and then i'd be _ really broad ranging subject and then i'd be happy— really broad ranging subject and then i'd be happy to _ really broad ranging subject and then i'd be happy to have - really broad ranging subject and then i'd be happy to have an i really broad ranging subject and i then i'd be happy to have an awful lot of— then i'd be happy to have an awful lot of money— then i'd be happy to have an awful lot of money and _ then i'd be happy to have an awful lot of money and they _ then i'd be happy to have an awful lot of money and they have - then i'd be happy to have an awful lot of money and they have the i then i'd be happy to have an awful. lot of money and they have the have who are _ lot of money and they have the have who are most — lot of money and they have the have who are most of _ lot of money and they have the have who are most of us _ lot of money and they have the have who are most of us when _ lot of money and they have the have who are most of us when it - lot of money and they have the have who are most of us when it comes i lot of money and they have the have | who are most of us when it comes to create _ who are most of us when it comes to create a _ who are most of us when it comes to create a space — who are most of us when it comes to create a space and _ who are most of us when it comes to create a space and i— who are most of us when it comes to create a space and i think— who are most of us when it comes to create a space and i think that - create a space and i think that tiktok— create a space and i think that tiktok in _ create a space and i think that tiktok in particular— create a space and i think that tiktok in particular hi - create a space and i think that tiktok in particular hi trying i create a space and i think that| tiktok in particular hi trying to develop — tiktok in particular hi trying to develop a _ tiktok in particular hi trying to develop a new— tiktok in particular hi trying to develop a new way— tiktok in particular hi trying to develop a new way of- tiktok in particular hi trying to develop a new way of doing i tiktok in particular hi trying to. develop a new way of doing this where _ develop a new way of doing this where they— develop a new way of doing this where they try _ develop a new way of doing this where they try and _ develop a new way of doing this where they try and monetise i develop a new way of doing this where they try and monetise as| develop a new way of doing this i where they try and monetise as many people _ where they try and monetise as many people as _ where they try and monetise as many people as they— where they try and monetise as many people as they can _ where they try and monetise as many people as they can by— where they try and monetise as many people as they can by giving - where they try and monetise as many people as they can by giving them i where they try and monetise as many people as they can by giving them a i people as they can by giving them a little bit _ people as they can by giving them a little bit but — people as they can by giving them a little bit but there _ people as they can by giving them a little bit but there are _ people as they can by giving them a little bit but there are always - little bit but there are always different _ little bit but there are always different platforms, - little bit but there are always different platforms, not- little bit but there are always| different platforms, not least patreon — different platforms, not least patreon as _ different platforms, not least patreon as well _ different platforms, not least patreon as well who - different platforms, not least patreon as well who are, i different platforms, not least| patreon as well who are, kind different platforms, not least i patreon as well who are, kind of, offering _ patreon as well who are, kind of, offering other _ patreon as well who are, kind of, offering other alternatives. - patreon as well who are, kind of, offering other alternatives. a i patreon as well who are, kind of, | offering other alternatives. a sort offering other alternatives. a sort of way _ offering other alternatives. a sort of way of — offering other alternatives. a sort of way of spreading _ offering other alternatives. a sort of way of spreading out _ offering other alternatives. a sort of way of spreading out your i offering other alternatives. a sort of way of spreading out your eggs offering other alternatives. a sort. of way of spreading out your eggs in many, _ of way of spreading out your eggs in many. many— of way of spreading out your eggs in many, many baskets. _ of way of spreading out your eggs in many, many baskets.— of way of spreading out your eggs in many, many baskets. becky, let me talk to you — many, many baskets. becky, let me talk to you a — many, many baskets. becky, let me talk to you a moment _ many, many baskets. becky, let me talk to you a moment about - many, many baskets. becky, let me talk to you a moment about when i many, many baskets. becky, let me. talk to you a moment about when you were a youtube influence as a

teenager. underthe were a youtube influence as a teenager. under the name becky cruel i think. and you did a lots of material which was watched and widely followed particularly in japan. aclip of some of it. she sings injapanese and english. so, how much money remaking out of us at the time, roughly? it is us at the time, roughly? it is difficult to — us at the time, roughly? it is difficult to say _ us at the time, roughly? it is difficult to say because - us at the time, roughly? it 3 difficult to say because what happened was i started youtube for ad sense even existed so the intentions behind created content back then were very different. we were not going in teaching and seeing people with mansions and massive houses and cars and things like that we were just going to youtube to create and be part of the community. we youtube to create and be part of the community-— community. we can rely on a trip steady income. _ community. we can rely on a trip steady income, community. - community. we can rely on a trip steady income, community. no, | community. we can rely on a trip| steady income, community. no, i mean, steady income, community. no, i

mean. luckily _ steady income, community. no, i mean. luckily i — steady income, community. no, i mean, luckily i was— steady income, community. no, i mean, luckily i was at _ steady income, community. no, i mean, luckily i was at school- steady income, community. no, i mean, luckily i was at school so l steady income, community. no, i mean, luckily i was at school so i | mean, luckily i was at school so i still had my parents aborting me but even i was making my youtube videos my case was a little bit different because the content i was making wasn't fully monetise a bull. it contained copyrighted music which actually i didn't own the rights to and had to look elsewhere in terms of, as we've talked about, diversifying your income streams with regards to social media so merchandise, fan funding, model such as patreon and other kind of things like that. , ., . ~ ., like that. so, chris, going back to ou if the like that. so, chris, going back to you if the majority _ like that. so, chris, going back to you if the majority of _ like that. so, chris, going back to you if the majority of people - like that. so, chris, going back to you if the majority of people are l you if the majority of people are not making much, if any money out of this approach at least at the moment, how do the social media companies make money out of what people are posting?— companies make money out of what people are posting? well, they make mone out people are posting? well, they make money out of — people are posting? well, they make money out of our _ people are posting? well, they make money out of our attention. - people are posting? well, they make money out of our attention. we - people are posting? well, they make money out of our attention. we are l money out of our attention. we are engaged with all of these creators, we find them very interesting and like to develop into their lives. i still watch becky when i was younger and fun that basically they have our attention so they serve adverts against that in many instances. you can buy an advert on youtube that

because not a lot of money, you can buy an advert on tiktok that will be slotted into the feed videos that you see and those things cost an awful lot of money to buy for businesses and the money that they make from that is basically ploughed into profits for the platform. youtube makes billions of dollars in advertising revenue every single year of the back of, essentially, free labour of millions of people. i free labour of millions of people. i was going to say, it is unpaid labour, isn't it, by those of us who are posting stuff? it is labour, isn't it, by those of us who are posting stuff?— are posting stuff? it is but then there's the _ are posting stuff? it is but then there's the opportunity. - are posting stuff? it is but then there's the opportunity. why i are posting stuff? it is but then | there's the opportunity. why do people — there's the opportunity. why do pecule want— there's the opportunity. why do pecule want to _ there's the opportunity. why do people want to become - there's the opportunity. why do . people want to become celebrities there's the opportunity. why do - people want to become celebrities a thin- people want to become celebrities a thing is _ people want to become celebrities a thing is that— people want to become celebrities a thing is that they _ people want to become celebrities a thing is that they question _ people want to become celebrities a thing is that they question and - people want to become celebrities a thing is that they question and thati thing is that they question and that is because — thing is that they question and that is because there _ thing is that they question and that is because there is _ thing is that they question and that is because there is a _ thing is that they question and that is because there is a with— thing is that they question and that is because there is a with this - is because there is a with this minute — is because there is a with this minute not _ is because there is a with this minute not .0% _ is because there is a with this minute not .0% or— is because there is a with this minute not .0% or 3.5%, - is because there is a with this minute not .0% or3.5%, i- is because there is a with this - minute not .0% or 3.5%, i suppose, chance — minute not .0% or 3.5%, i suppose, chance of— minute not .0% or 3.5%, i suppose, chance of actually— minute not .0% or 3.5%, i suppose, chance of actually making _ minute not .0% or 3.5%, i suppose, chance of actually making it - minute not .0% or 3.5%, i suppose, chance of actually making it big - minute not .0% or 3.5%, i suppose, chance of actually making it big and| chance of actually making it big and striking _ chance of actually making it big and striking it _ chance of actually making it big and striking it rich — chance of actually making it big and striking it rich and _ chance of actually making it big and striking it rich and getting _ chance of actually making it big and striking it rich and getting those - striking it rich and getting those million—dollar— striking it rich and getting those million—dollar mansions - striking it rich and getting those million—dollar mansions that. striking it rich and getting those i million—dollar mansions that becky was talking — million—dollar mansions that becky was talking about. _ million—dollar mansions that becky was talking about. i— million-dollar mansions that becky was talking about.— million-dollar mansions that becky was talking about. i don't think you are askin: was talking about. i don't think you are asking the _ was talking about. i don't think you are asking the right _ was talking about. i don't think you are asking the right person - was talking about. i don't think you are asking the right person about l are asking the right person about the celebrity idea but i see where you are going. sam, i wanted to come to you about patron in a bit more detail now. that is to an extent

made to change at least some of it as i understand it. we launched it try as i understand it. we launched it by i think it was 2017 with a university friend he was a musician but was only earning tiny sums on youtube. was that how the idea began, to try listening differently here? . ., began, to try listening differently here? , . ., , , here? yes, i mean, even for myself personally — here? yes, i mean, even for myself personally i — here? yes, i mean, even for myself personally i had _ here? yes, i mean, even for myself personally i had studied... - here? yes, i mean, even for myself personally i had studied... jack- here? yes, i mean, even for myself personally i had studied... jack and | personally i had studied... jack and i missing colleague because you are a match in a creative dome but i had studied 15 years of classical piano. my studied 15 years of classical piano. my college essay was about how my mum chopped off part of my middle finger inner door hinge but then i continue studying music and played in carnegie hall but i didn't decide to music is my career because at that time certainly you had to be the absolute best to even consider a possible path forward. this was your life. and i think nowadays what is fascinating that the internet is that you can connect with these pockets of communities directly with your fans and get monetised. we've talked about how the majority of

folks even in the youtube study aren't necessarily making a living but what we're seeing now is there is absolutely a change in behaviour understanding that consumers are willing to pay for content that they care about and because they particularly care about specific creators so that is why it is called the creative economy versus what you have with a gig economy. it is not commoditised. the specific creator that you care about is the one you are willing to support. bind that you care about is the one you are willing to support.— are willing to support. and your latform are willing to support. and your platform is _ are willing to support. and your platform is not _ are willing to support. and your platform is not just _ are willing to support. and your platform is notjust musicians, | are willing to support. and your. platform is notjust musicians, is it? platform is not 'ust musicians, is it? ~ platform is not 'ust musicians, is it? . ., . platform is not 'ust musicians, is it? ., . ~ , platform is not 'ust musicians, is it? ~ ., ., ~ , ., platform is not 'ust musicians, is it? ., .,~ it? we have all kinds of creators and platforms. _ it? we have all kinds of creators and platforms, musicians, - and platforms, musicians, journalists, people do photography, people in new york who document the plight of everyday humans, inventors, all kinds of folks who are able to connect to their community. are able to connect to their community-— are able to connect to their communi . ., ., , . . . , community. how does the claimants work if i community. how does the claimants work if i put — community. how does the claimants work if i put something _ community. how does the claimants work if i put something on _ community. how does the claimants work if i put something on your - work if i put something on your platforms, who is paying what to whom? —— how do the payments were? it is the direct connection you have

your funds in your community who want to support both he was a creator and to get access to the exclusive content you are making. might come as a people who want to know more about you because they have heard one thing you had put on your platform and like it, they will invest, if you like, and hope that as a result of doing so they will hear more?— as a result of doing so they will hear more? ~ ,,., , ., . ,., hear more? absolutely. i would also sa what hear more? absolutely. i would also say what is — hear more? absolutely. i would also say what is happening _ hear more? absolutely. i would also say what is happening in _ hear more? absolutely. i would also say what is happening in the - hear more? absolutely. i would also say what is happening in the whole l say what is happening in the whole ecosystem as there has been a of an easy access to creation and democratisation and if you look at tiktok it is so easy now to create any piece of content and everyone has the chance to make it viable and that has become more and more true as these tools become more advanced —— make it viral. effectively have all of these people who want to learn how to become creators and look up to these are the creators to and find that supporting them allows them to get deep into this craft. within that model, is there a monthly subscription option for those who want to go down to that route? .

those who want to go down to that route? , . ., , .,, , those who want to go down to that route? , . ., , ,~ route? yes, patreon is mostly about sustainable — route? yes, patreon is mostly about sustainable funding _ route? yes, patreon is mostly about sustainable funding so _ route? yes, patreon is mostly about sustainable funding so most - route? yes, patreon is mostly about sustainable funding so most of - route? yes, patreon is mostly about sustainable funding so most of the l sustainable funding so most of the option to provide creators allow for a sustainable recurring monthly revenue. 50 a sustainable recurring monthly revenue. y a sustainable recurring monthly revenue. , ~ ., . j revenue. so they know what they're auoin to revenue. so they know what they're going to get — revenue. so they know what they're going to get each — revenue. so they know what they're going to get each month _ revenue. so they know what they're going to get each month and - going to get each month and obviously you are taking a cut as of that otherwise you'll be able to run it. , . ~ . . ., that otherwise you'll be able to run it. yes, we take a cut out of the revenues _ it. yes, we take a cut out of the revenues that _ it. yes, we take a cut out of the revenues that come _ it. yes, we take a cut out of the revenues that come through. i it. yes, we take a cut out of the - revenues that come through. compared to many other platforms i would say allah take a cut out of the revenues that come through. compared to many other platforms i would say our takeaway to substantially fall of the max muller. flan takeaway to substantially fall of the max muller.— takeaway to substantially fall of the max muller. . , ., , . the max muller. can you put a figure on what you — the max muller. can you put a figure on what you take? _ the max muller. can you put a figure on what you take? -- _ the max muller. can you put a figure on what you take? -- our _ the max muller. can you put a figure on what you take? -- our take - the max muller. can you put a figure on what you take? -- our take rate i on what you take? -- our take rate is substantially _ on what you take? -- our take rate is substantially smaller. _ on what you take? -- our take rate is substantially smaller. but - on what you take? -- our take rate is substantially smaller. but our i is substantially smaller. but our platform, petrie and, depending on the options it is anywhere between five to 8% initially. share the options it is anywhere between five to 896 initially.— five to 896 initially. are you offerin: five to 896 initially. are you offering attractions - five to 896 initially. are you offering attractions to - five to 896 initially. are you | offering attractions to those five to 896 initially. are you - offering attractions to those coming onto your platform, sponsorship, marketing those kinds of things that might be a further attraction for them? ~ ., might be a further attraction for them? ~ . ., might be a further attraction for them? ~ . . , , might be a further attraction for them? ~ ., ., , , ., them? we have added plenty of features like _ them? we have added plenty of features like merchandising - them? we have added plenty of| features like merchandising that others mentioned are some of the options creators have today. the key

piece of patreon is nothing here is exclusive and you can take in all these monetisation opportunities even as you are building up a membership sustainable revenue stream in our platform. find membership sustainable revenue stream in our platform.— membership sustainable revenue stream in our platform. and you are obviously building _ stream in our platform. and you are obviously building up _ stream in our platform. and you are obviously building up numbers. - stream in our platform. and you are obviously building up numbers. you| obviously building up numbers. you know how many patents they are at the moment?— the moment? yes, we have over 8 million paying _ the moment? yes, we have over 8 million paying patrons _ the moment? yes, we have over 8 million paying patrons as - the moment? yes, we have over 8 million paying patrons as of - the moment? yes, we have over 8 million paying patrons as of last i million paying patrons as of last month for me last checked. we also have over 200,000 creators that are getting paid every single month right now. getting paid every single month riaht now. ., . getting paid every single month riaht now. ., , . getting paid every single month riahtnow. ., , . right now. how big an impact you think patreon _ right now. how big an impact you think patreon is _ right now. how big an impact you think patreon is having, - right now. how big an impact you think patreon is having, has - right now. how big an impact you i think patreon is having, has already had? . ~ think patreon is having, has already had? , ~' ., ., think patreon is having, has already had? , ,, . . had? yes, i think it looks certain --eole. i had? yes, i think it looks certain people- i spoke _ had? yes, i think it looks certain people. i spoke with _ had? yes, i think it looks certain people. i spoke with a _ had? yes, i think it looks certain people. i spoke with a creator. people. i spoke with a creator recently who makes 80% of her income through channel memberships and catering channel memberships and she said that really work to her because she doesn't want to do sponsored content and push ads in front of audiences and people content. other people say they don't want to take anyway from the audience and they like the admiral so it really depends on the creator. some have

seen success and some haven't. that like the advert model. if seen success and some haven't. that like the advert model.— like the advert model. if you have a traditional outlet _ like the advert model. if you have a traditional outlet or _ like the advert model. if you have a traditional outlet or what _ like the advert model. if you have a traditional outlet or what might - like the advert model. if you have a traditional outlet or what might be l traditional outlet or what might be regarded as one like a newspaper or a broadcaster how do you see the arrival of a concept like this? is this something to be wary of? is this something to be wary of? is this something to try and work alongside? i this something to try and work alongside?— alongside? i don't know if it is wa of. alongside? i don't know if it is wary of- i _ alongside? i don't know if it is wary of. i think _ alongside? i don't know if it is wary of. i think we _ alongside? i don't know if it is wary of. i think we are - alongside? i don't know if it is wary of. i think we are seeing| alongside? i don't know if it is - wary of. i think we are seeing this really interesting thing happened now where some i going independent and have really big twitter followings and loyal audiences and are going off on their own and joining sub—stack sol are going off on their own and joining sub—stack so i think that is something to watch the for traditional news but i don't know that patriot is really necessarily a threat to news outlets.— threat to news outlets. what of other social _ threat to news outlets. what of other social media _ threat to news outlets. what of other social media companies, | other social media companies, though? we have seen launches of quotes contain creator funds by facebook, by tiktok. is that what they are trying to deal with now? they are suddenly thinking we need to do something different here? yes. to do something different here? yes, i think to do something different here? yes, i think tiktok— to do something different here? yes, i think tiktok and _ to do something different here? yes, i think tiktok and the _ to do something different here? ya: i think tiktok and the pandemic have just been such big drivers of this.

tiktok has totally appended the creator ecosystem. as i mentioned, they had made it so easy for the average person to go viral and garner a big audience and i think that social media platforms of realising that creators drive a lot of engagement and friends and it is not enough any more to just give them a place to grow an audience. they need to offer them better features and ways to get money and besides youtube which is to be the only game in town there wasn't a way to earn directly from social media networks until the last year or so. becky, what you make of these new developments? i becky, what you make of these new developments?— developments? i think there is a really growing — developments? i think there is a really growing trend _ developments? i think there is a really growing trend of— developments? i think there is a really growing trend of creators l developments? i think there is a i really growing trend of creators who are trying to come a kind of, almost regain the connection between themselves and their audiences without the platform because at the end of the day it is really had to trust the platforms. you know, changes are being made every single day to the algorithms, however content is being said to our audiences and is often done in a very hard to read, almost like black box algorithmic way, which is hard

to decipher and decode and you often second—guess yourself and what you're doing. am you know, doing something wrong, why are my views not flowing very well any more? it can take a very big toll on your mental health as well so i think opportunities for creators too, kind of, regain that connection with their audience in a real direct way is something that is going to be really beneficial going forward. we have talked about making money via social media but of course that every well—intentioned musician there is someone perhaps with slightly darker motives. i have been speaking to cap patter who is a reporter from the bbc panorama programme who has been investigating a new kind of criminal, the fraud influence. ., . a new kind of criminal, the fraud influence-— influence. fraud influence is someone — influence. fraud influence is someone who _ influence. fraud influence is someone who has _ influence. fraud influence is someone who has a - influence. fraud influence is someone who has a large i influence. fraud influence is- someone who has a large following that the _ someone who has a large following that the difference is the engaging content _ that the difference is the engaging content they are putting out there is fraud _ content they are putting out there is fraud. they are promoting this criminal— is fraud. they are promoting this criminal lifestyle and sometimes

even _ criminal lifestyle and sometimes even using social media is to sell criminal— even using social media is to sell criminal services, fraudulent services _ criminal services, fraudulent services. ., criminal services, fraudulent services-— criminal services, fraudulent services. ., .,. services. now, you looked into an influence are _ services. now, you looked into an influence are tanks. _ services. now, you looked into an influence are tanks. how- services. now, you looked into an influence are tanks. how many i influence are tanks. how many followers does he have online and what of those followers seeing? he has over 150,000 followers across different _ has over 150,000 followers across different platforms. tiktok, instagram, snapchat, twitter, and he posts _ instagram, snapchat, twitter, and he posts these _ instagram, snapchat, twitter, and he posts these day in the life videos, day in _ posts these day in the life videos, day in the — posts these day in the life videos, day in the life of tanks, dear the life c>f_ day in the life of tanks, dear the life of a — day in the life of tanks, dear the life of a clicker and click it is a slang — life of a clicker and click it is a slang word _ life of a clicker and click it is a slang word for fraud and you can see him glamorising fraud wielding large amounts _ him glamorising fraud wielding large amounts of cash in multiple bank cards _ amounts of cash in multiple bank cards and — amounts of cash in multiple bank cards and on into them he is selling manuals, _ cards and on into them he is selling manuals, methods he calls them, and how you _ manuals, methods he calls them, and how you can— manuals, methods he calls them, and how you can commit fraud. you bought some of these — how you can commit fraud. you bought some of these manuals, _ how you can commit fraud. you bought some of these manuals, these - how you can commit fraud. you bought some of these manuals, these guides, | some of these manuals, these guides, to have a look at what was arthur so what did you find? i to have a look at what was arthur so what did you find?— what did you find? i cannot go into too much detail— what did you find? i cannot go into too much detail because _ what did you find? i cannot go into too much detail because we - what did you find? i cannot go into too much detail because we don'tl too much detail because we don't want _ too much detail because we don't want to— too much detail because we don't want to teach people how to commit fraud! _ want to teach people how to commit fraud! ., want to teach people how to commit

fraud! . ., but want to teach people how to commit fraud!_ itut it _ want to teach people how to commit fraud!_ but it came - want to teach people how to commit fraud!_ but it came in i fraud! fair enough. but it came in the form of _ fraud! fair enough. but it came in the form of a _ fraud! fair enough. but it came in the form of a cloud _ fraud! fair enough. but it came in the form of a cloud storage - fraud! fair enough. but it came in the form of a cloud storage link l fraud! fair enough. but it came in i the form of a cloud storage link and you click— the form of a cloud storage link and you click on — the form of a cloud storage link and you click on it and find various step—by—step guide on how to exploit weaknesses in the systems of online retailers. _ weaknesses in the systems of online retailers, banks, a guide on how to defraud _ retailers, banks, a guide on how to defraud the — retailers, banks, a guide on how to defraud the government was not universal— defraud the government was not universal credit scheme. he also provided — universal credit scheme. he also provided you with links to website where _ provided you with links to website where you — provided you with links to website where you can go and buy people's stolen _ where you can go and buy people's stolen personal information known as fulls _ stolen personal information known as fulls. we _ stolen personal information known as fulls. ~ .., stolen personal information known as fulls. . .. . stolen personal information known as fulls. . . . , stolen personal information known as fulls. . ., ., , ., fulls. we can hear a little bit from our fulls. we can hear a little bit from your panorama — fulls. we can hear a little bit from your panorama now. _ fulls. we can hear a little bit from your panorama now. i _ fulls. we can hear a little bit from your panorama now. i am - fulls. we can hear a little bit from your panorama now. i am a - fulls. we can hear a little bit from | your panorama now. i am a london scandal, your panorama now. i am a london scandal. 1— your panorama now. i am a london scandal. i see — your panorama now. i am a london scandal, i see it, _ your panorama now. i am a london scandal, i see it, i— your panorama now. i am a london scandal, i see it, iwant— your panorama now. i am a london scandal, i see it, iwant it, - your panorama now. i am a london scandal, i see it, iwant it, i- scandal, i see it, i want it, i click it. scandal, i see it, iwant it, i click it. . . scandal, i see it, iwant it, i click it— click it. this is the sound of tanks, click it. this is the sound of tanks. a — click it. this is the sound of tanks, a fraud _ click it. this is the sound of tanks, a fraud influence, . click it. this is the sound of i tanks, a fraud influence, who click it. this is the sound of - tanks, a fraud influence, who post on youtube — tanks, a fraud influence, who post on youtube bragging about scams while _ on youtube bragging about scams while keeping his true identity hitting — while keeping his true identity hitting. he has more than 150,000 followers _ hitting. he has more than 150,000 followers across various social media — followers across various social media platforms. tanks and others like him _ media platforms. tanks and others like him at — media platforms. tanks and others like him at openly trading takes on defrauding individuals, companies, lranks— defrauding individuals, companies, banks and — defrauding individuals, companies, banks and even the benefit system. now, _ banks and even the benefit system. now, these fraud influences use a

whole array of different social media platform so what did those platforms say when you told them about tanks? i platforms say when you told them about tanks?_ platforms say when you told them about tanks? i have got to look at m list about tanks? i have got to look at my list because — about tanks? i have got to look at my list because we _ about tanks? i have got to look at my list because we contacted - about tanks? i have got to look at| my list because we contacted quite about tanks? i have got to look at i my list because we contacted quite a few social _ my list because we contacted quite a few social media platforms. we contacted twitter, instagram, facebook, snapchat, youtube. they'll say they— facebook, snapchat, youtube. they'll say they don't allow for content on their platforms and in relation to tanks _ their platforms and in relation to tanks per— their platforms and in relation to tanks per se his accounts and those of respective platforms by having twitter— of respective platforms by having twitter and youtube, they've been taken _ twitter and youtube, they've been taken down. twitter and youtube, they've been taken down-— taken down. lets get into the nuts and bolts of— taken down. lets get into the nuts and bolts of your _ taken down. lets get into the nuts and bolts of your investigation - taken down. lets get into the nuts and bolts of your investigation to l and bolts of your investigation to and bolts of your investigation to an extent because there were some good old—fashioned journalism going on here. how did you first come across these fraud influences? ok. across these fraud influences? 0k, well, i across these fraud influences? 0k, well. i might— across these fraud influences? 0k, well, i might not _ across these fraud influences? 0k, well, i might not look at but i'm quite _ well, i might not look at but i'm quite young and like a lot of young people _ quite young and like a lot of young people im — quite young and like a lot of young people i... might not have got a curious— people i... might not have got a curious advantage on me, let's put it on— curious advantage on me, let's put it on that _ curious advantage on me, let's put it on that way! -- curious advantage on me, let's put it on that way!— it on that way! -- you have got a firures it on that way! -- you have got a figures advantage _ it on that way! -- you have got a figures advantage of _ it on that way! -- you have got a figures advantage of me, - it on that way! -- you have got a figures advantage of me, put - it on that way! -- you have got a figures advantage of me, put it | it on that way! -- you have got a i figures advantage of me, put it that way. i figures advantage of me, put it that wa . . . figures advantage of me, put it that wa , , , ., ., figures advantage of me, put it that wa . , , . ., .,

figures advantage of me, put it that wa. ,, ..,., ., figures advantage of me, put it that wa. ,, . ., ., ., way. i spent a lot of time on social media scrolling _ way. i spent a lot of time on social media scrolling through _ way. i spent a lot of time on social media scrolling through snapchatl way. i spent a lot of time on social. media scrolling through snapchat and i media scrolling through snapchat and i kept _ media scrolling through snapchat and i kept noticing the full post popping up on my feet and it turns out i'm _ popping up on my feet and it turns out i'm not— popping up on my feet and it turns out i'm not the only one because as part of— out i'm not the only one because as part of this — out i'm not the only one because as part of this investigation i went to my old _ part of this investigation i went to my old school to speak to some 16 and 17—year—olds. they said they were _ and 17—year—olds. they said they were seeing the same thing, people glamorising fraud, selling methods on how— glamorising fraud, selling methods on how you can commit fraud and that is how— on how you can commit fraud and that is how i_ on how you can commit fraud and that is how i came — on how you can commit fraud and that is how i came across it and it turned — is how i came across it and it turned out _ is how i came across it and it turned out i am not the only a person— turned out i am not the only a person who has seen this kind of thing _ person who has seen this kind of thin. �* . , , thing. and in the documentary we see ou thing. and in the documentary we see you exchanging _ thing. and in the documentary we see you exchanging messages, _ thing. and in the documentary we see you exchanging messages, even i thing. and in the documentary we see l you exchanging messages, even phone calls with some of the fraudsters. did that mean using burner foams, fake social media profiles to make sure that you are protecting yourself?— sure that you are protecting ourself? , ,., , yourself? yes, so there were times when i yourself? yes, so there were times when i was — yourself? yes, so there were times when i was walking _ yourself? yes, so there were times when i was walking around - yourself? yes, so there were times when i was walking around with i when i was walking around with several — when i was walking around with several burner phones with venison cards _ several burner phones with venison cards and _ several burner phones with venison cards and multiple fake identities online _ cards and multiple fake identities online and fake profiles. the fraudsters remain anonymous and we were doing _ fraudsters remain anonymous and we were doing the same thing to detect ourselves _

were doing the same thing to detect ourselves. —— burner sim cards. | ourselves. —— burner sim cards. know you ourselves. —— burner sim cards. i know you track down the person who seemed to have been tanks and his own social media posts seem to have let you there. 50. own social media posts seem to have let you there-— let you there. so, that is the problem _ let you there. so, that is the problem that _ let you there. so, that is the problem that these - let you there. so, that is the problem that these fraud i let you there. so, that is the - problem that these fraud influences because _ problem that these fraud influences because part of being an influence in showing — because part of being an influence in showing your life online and tank showed _ in showing your life online and tank showed a _ in showing your life online and tank showed a bit too much online. there were _ showed a bit too much online. there were little _ showed a bit too much online. there were little clues in his videos which — were little clues in his videos which helped us track him down. the starters, _ which helped us track him down. the starters, one — which helped us track him down. the starters, one video gave us a glimpse _ starters, one video gave us a glimpse of his car number plate which _ glimpse of his car number plate which we — glimpse of his car number plate which we were able to search official— which we were able to search official records and identify as a -rey official records and identify as a grey vauxhall corsa. another video showed _ grey vauxhall corsa. another video showed a _ grey vauxhall corsa. another video showed a distinctive patterned carpet — showed a distinctive patterned carpet which we linked to a student accommodation block in wembley. the next step _ accommodation block in wembley. the next step was to go to that student accommodation block, wait for the vauxhall— accommodation block, wait for the vauxhall corsa to arrive and take pictures — vauxhall corsa to arrive and take pictures of— vauxhall corsa to arrive and take pictures of tanks. in terms of his namel _ pictures of tanks. in terms of his name. that— pictures of tanks. in terms of his name, that was an old ebay account cold we _ name, that was an old ebay account cold we are — name, that was an old ebay account cold we are tanks and when you look at the _ cold we are tanks and when you look at the cell— cold we are tanks and when you look at the cell information you can see the real— at the cell information you can see the real name of the ebay seller

luke _ the real name of the ebay seller luke josef. that name appears once again— luke josef. that name appears once again in— luke josef. that name appears once again in an — luke josef. that name appears once again in an apple music track copyrighted to luke shows. but it is tanks _ copyrighted to luke shows. but it is tanks who — copyrighted to luke shows. but it is tanks who are singing. all of these clues— tanks who are singing. all of these clues put— tanks who are singing. all of these clues put together makes us believe that tanks— clues put together makes us believe that tanks may be a student from london _ that tanks may be a student from london by— that tanks may be a student from london by the name of luke joseph. so having _ london by the name of luke joseph. so having put all this close together what did you then do with the results of the investigation? appellees, for example, now pursuing some of these fraud influences? find some of these fraud influences? and sends at the — some of these fraud influences? and sends at the police are not too sure what _ sends at the police are not too sure what they're doing. that is definitely a matter them. speaking to me a little _ definitely a matter them. speaking to me a little earlier— definitely a matter them. speaking to me a little earlier about - to me a little earlier about panorama hunting the social media fraudsters which is available at now on iplayer. online harnesses me a big issue at the moment. there is the fraud we have just heard about, in locations in the shooting in plymouth in the last week or so about radicalisation and mine. what are the social media companies doing about thisjust now?

are the social media companies doing about this just now? the? are the social media companies doing about this just now?— about this 'ust now? they are focused about thisjust now? they are focused on — about thisjust now? they are focused on content _ about thisjust now? they are l focused on content moderation about thisjust now? they are i focused on content moderation and this is— focused on content moderation and this is a _ focused on content moderation and this is a perennial problem because for as— this is a perennial problem because for as long — this is a perennial problem because for as long as they have been social media _ for as long as they have been social media platforms that have been issues _ media platforms that have been issues of— media platforms that have been issues of either inappropriate content — issues of either inappropriate content of a quebec libation to content — content of a quebec libation to content consumption. youtube, tiktok, instagram, _ content consumption. youtube, tiktok, instagram, facebook, i tiktok, instagram, facebook, twitter. — tiktok, instagram, facebook, twitter. all— tiktok, instagram, facebook, twitter, all of— tiktok, instagram, facebook, twitter, all of the _ tiktok, instagram, facebook, twitter, all of the above - tiktok, instagram, facebook, twitter, all of the above use i tiktok, instagram, facebook,j twitter, all of the above use a combination— twitter, all of the above use a combination of— twitter, all of the above use a combination of either- twitter, all of the above use a i combination of either computer technology, _ combination of either computer technology, artificial— combination of either computer. technology, artificial intelligence, which _ technology, artificial intelligence, which basically _ technology, artificial intelligence, which basically comes _ technology, artificial intelligence, which basically comes through i technology, artificial intelligence, i which basically comes through what you say. _ which basically comes through what you say. what— which basically comes through what you say. what you _ which basically comes through what you say, what you like _ which basically comes through what you say, what you like to _ which basically comes through what you say, what you like to try - which basically comes through what you say, what you like to try and i you say, what you like to try and find out, — you say, what you like to try and find out, you _ you say, what you like to try and find out, you know, _ you say, what you like to try and | find out, you know, inappropriate words _ find out, you know, inappropriate words and — find out, you know, inappropriate words and things _ find out, you know, inappropriate words and things like _ find out, you know, inappropriate words and things like that - find out, you know, inappropriate words and things like that and i find out, you know, inappropriate words and things like that and tryj words and things like that and try to take _ words and things like that and try to take them _ words and things like that and try to take them down _ words and things like that and try to take them down and _ words and things like that and try to take them down and also - words and things like that and try. to take them down and also human moderators — to take them down and also human moderators. this— to take them down and also human moderators. this is— to take them down and also human moderators. this is the _ to take them down and also human moderators. this is the human i to take them down and also human| moderators. this is the human side of social— moderators. this is the human side of social media _ moderators. this is the human side of social media as _ moderators. this is the human side of social media as we _ moderators. this is the human side of social media as we pay— moderators. this is the human side of social media as we pay an - moderators. this is the human side of social media as we pay an awfuli of social media as we pay an awful lot of— of social media as we pay an awful lot of body — of social media as we pay an awful lot of body contracted _ of social media as we pay an awful lot of body contracted poorly- of social media as we pay an awful lot of body contracted poorly paid i lot of body contracted poorly paid workers _ lot of body contracted poorly paid workers to — lot of body contracted poorly paid workers to try _ lot of body contracted poorly paid workers to try and _ lot of body contracted poorly paid workers to try and deal _ lot of body contracted poorly paid workers to try and deal with - lot of body contracted poorly paid i workers to try and deal with some of the messes— workers to try and deal with some of the messes that _ workers to try and deal with some of the messes that we _ workers to try and deal with some of the messes that we have _ workers to try and deal with some of the messes that we have on - workers to try and deal with some of the messes that we have on social. the messes that we have on social media _ the messes that we have on social media they— the messes that we have on social media. they have _ the messes that we have on social media. they have limited - the messes that we have on social media. they have limited successl the messes that we have on social. media. they have limited success in taking _ media. they have limited success in taking down— media. they have limited success in taking down some _ media. they have limited success in taking down some of— media. they have limited success in taking down some of this— media. they have limited success in taking down some of this content i media. they have limited success in. taking down some of this content and that is— taking down some of this content and that isjust _ taking down some of this content and that isjust simply— taking down some of this content and that is just simply because _ taking down some of this content and that is just simply because there i taking down some of this content and that isjust simply because there is i that isjust simply because there is a torrent— that isjust simply because there is a torrent of— that isjust simply because there is a torrent of it _ that isjust simply because there is a torrent of it. this _ that isjust simply because there is a torrent of it. this is _ that isjust simply because there is a torrent of it. this is a _ that isjust simply because there is a torrent of it. this is a massive i a torrent of it. this is a massive fire hose — a torrent of it. this is a massive fire hose full— a torrent of it. this is a massive fire hose full of— a torrent of it. this is a massive fire hose full of information i a torrent of it. this is a massive| fire hose full of information that is being — fire hose full of information that is being posted _ fire hose full of information that is being posted every— fire hose full of information that is being posted every single i fire hose full of information that is being posted every single dayj fire hose full of information that i is being posted every single day and it is difficult — is being posted every single day and it is difficult to _ is being posted every single day and it is difficult to keep _ is being posted every single day and it is difficult to keep on— is being posted every single day and it is difficult to keep on track- it is difficult to keep on track although— it is difficult to keep on track althoughjournalists - it is difficult to keep on track although journalists like i it is difficult to keep on track although journalists like us i it is difficult to keep on track- although journalists like us always try to _ although journalists like us always try to -- _ although journalists like us always try to -- off— although journalists like us always try to -- offand— although journalists like us always try to —— off and try _ although journalists like us always try to —— off and try to _ although journalists like us always try to —— off and try to keep - although journalists like us always try to —— off and try to keep a i try to —— off and try to keep a little — try to —— off and try to keep a little more _ try to —— off and try to keep a little more honest— try to —— off and try to keep a little more honest than - try to -- off and try to keep a little more honest thar- try to -- off and try to keep a

little more honest than how does maximum tackle _ little more honest than how does maximum tackle this _ little more honest than how does maximum tackle this particular. maximum tackle this particular issue? big like it is interesting mentioning the human moderation and we do want to take a human outlook on this and we don't necessarily want to be the arbiters of what art is or isn't and we believe in a diversity of opinions but as i lead, you know, insult and explaining what patreon was at the very beginning we also want us to save community sol think for us there are certain types of behaviours that are very explicit. actually i thought initially when you're talking about fraud it was committing fraud against your community. sometimes, you know, telling them to pay you in order to get financial independence order to get financial independence or something like that. but what is in particular there are certain things around hate speech all around bullying or doc sing when you expose someone's address that are just lines that do not support any sort of safe community —— doxxing on bullying. i know you've recently gave evidence to a select committee enquiry at westminster about this and about influences? the? enquiry at westminster about this and about influences?— enquiry at westminster about this and about influences? they want to know? it

and about influences? they want to know? it is — and about influences? they want to know? it is really _ and about influences? they want to know? it is really great _ and about influences? they want to know? it is really great that - and about influences? they want to know? it is really great that the i know? it is really great that the government _ know? it is really great that the government is _ know? it is really great that the government is taking _ know? it is really great that the government is taking more i know? it is really great that the i government is taking more interest in influences on social media in general— in influences on social media in general and this was an enquiry into influencer— general and this was an enquiry into influencer culture and they wanted to investigate the power of influences on social media, how does influence _ influences on social media, how does influence a _ influences on social media, how does influence a culture operate and also crucially— influence a culture operate and also crucially about regulation, in particular— crucially about regulation, in particular with advertising as being. — particular with advertising as being, kind of, if you occasions over— being, kind of, if you occasions over the — being, kind of, if you occasions over the past ten years, i would say. _ over the past ten years, i would say, since — over the past ten years, i would say, since influence in marketing and advertising with social media has emerged that we have had a few incidences _ has emerged that we have had a few incidences where people have got in trouble _ incidences where people have got in trouble and this is the crucial thing — trouble and this is the crucial thing that i think connects all of this is— thing that i think connects all of this is the — thing that i think connects all of this is the internet and social media — this is the internet and social media and influencer culture itself is moving — media and influencer culture itself is moving so quickly that the rules really— is moving so quickly that the rules really had — is moving so quickly that the rules really had been written yet. we're playing _ really had been written yet. we're playing catch—up game where everything has to happen before we then decide how do we want to regulate — then decide how do we want to regulate it and how do we want to enforce _ regulate it and how do we want to enforce it — regulate it and how do we want to enforce it and so these conversations being had in parliament at the moment hopefully iioii'i parliament at the moment hopefully going to _ parliament at the moment hopefully going to give us a little bit more concrete — going to give us a little bit more concrete direction into how we can make _ concrete direction into how we can make things safer —— the internet a safer— make things safer —— the internet a safer and _ make things safer —— the internet a

saferand fairer make things safer —— the internet a safer and fairer place for everybody. safer and fairer place for everybody-— safer and fairer place for everybody. safer and fairer place for eve bod . . , . ., everybody. that is all we have time for today say _ everybody. that is all we have time for today say thank _ everybody. that is all we have time for today say thank you _ everybody. that is all we have time for today say thank you very - everybody. that is all we have time for today say thank you very much l everybody. that is all we have time | for today say thank you very much to all of our guests who have taken part in the media show. co—founder patreon, thank you. reporter information, becky flint, youtube influencer and found of pepper studio, author of tiktok beam, china's dynamite app in the superpower racer social media and earlier we heard from a reporter palomar meth. —— is a reporterfrom panorama. we will be back at the same time next week with the media show so thank you very much watching goodbye. hello again. although there are a few sunny spells and breaks in the clarity today most of us have had a rather grey and cloudy day and the weather could see this low pressure that has

been pushing this area thicker cloud in western areas and bringing outbreaks of rain over eastern towers in that rain is continuing to push its way northwards and eastwards overnight. it will come along in bursts of heavy rain and ease of becoming light and more drizzly nature. it is i was going to be quite murky, mist and fog patches forming around our coasts and hills in very mild, temperatures no lower than 16 in hulland in very mild, temperatures no lower than 16 in hull and liverpool. as we sat at the weekend we have got this range to contend with. it is looking at its heaviest really it is looking at its heaviest really it is looking at its heaviest rally across wales and northern england, perhaps eastwards, midlands two. it will post eastwards reaching east anglia and south—east england as we had in the acclaimed will tend to ease off in south—east england and wales with a mixture of some trifling. temperatures in the most part a little disappointing, generally into the high teens and for some dikes and they apply today with sunshine and they apply today with sunshine and showers around. —— a brighter day on sunday with sunshine and showers around.

tonight at ten, despair and danger in afghanistan, as thousands at kabul airport beg for safe passage to new lives. there's frustration for british troops trying to keep order, and for fearful afghans trying to flee the taliban. i'm scared because i'm a girl. how long have you been waiting? i came morning, 5 o'clock, so still i am waiting here. president biden says it's one of the largest, most difficult airlifts in history, and he makes a solemn pledge. let me be clear, any american who wants to come home — we will get you home. here, the prime minister defends his foreign secretary over his handling of the crisis. also tonight... an inquestjury rules the stabbing of two people in south london last year by a convicted terrorist could have been prevented.