this is bbc news. we will have the headlines and all the main news stories for you at the top of the hour as newsday continues straight after hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. months of conflict in northern ethiopia have cost thousands of lives and brought hunger and fear to millions. late last year, prime minister abiy ahmed's government seemed confident of crushing tigrayan rebel forces. that confidence was misplaced. the war has spread. both the addis government and the rebels stand accused of horrifying war crimes.

my guest is ethiopia's attorney general, gedion timothewos. is his government leading the country to disaster? gedion timothewos in addis ababa, welcome to hardtalk. thanks for having me. it's a pleasure to have you, mr attorney general. now, when we last spoke to each other nearly nine months ago, you seemed very confident that your government was about to crush the forces of the tigray people's liberation front. are you now prepared to say

that your government's strategy has gone disastrously wrong? mr sackur, as i have stated back then, we are in a position to retake mekelle and we are able to finalise the initial phase of the operation within a matter of three weeks. we took over mekelle. we established an interim administration. we invested on rehabilitating tigray and remember, it was a conflict that was forced upon us. it was not a conflict that we got into by our own volition and willingly. so that's how we see the situation. well, you haven't answered my question because since then and of course, yourforces did take mekelle. since then, things have gone very wrong. yourforces left mekelle injune, and since then, the tplf, the tigran rebel forces, have retaken much of tigray from your national army.

but they've also moved into the neighbouring regions of amhara and afar. they hold much more territory now. so what's gone wrong? when we are holding mekelle and when our forces were in tigray, there are constant issues that are being raised about humanitarian access, the humanitarian situation. we want to improve the humanitarian situation and we are also concerned by the fact that the tplf was sending wave after wave of civilians against our troops. there is an extensive use of child soldiers by the tplf. so under these circumstances, to mitigate and minimise the humanity, the humanitarian cost and suffering, we did the responsible thing. we declared a unilateral ceasefire and we withdraw our troops from mekelle. unfortunately, the tplf

continued with its aggression and belligerence and escalated the conflict. it expanded it into afar and amhara regional states, committing gross atrocities against civilians. well, we'll get to the allegations of gross atrocities in a minute. but you tell me that you were concerned about the humanitarian situation. it's very hard for me to understand then, why, to this very day, you and your government are maintaining a siege, a blockade of tigray, which involves cutting off electricity, telecommunications, banking and financial services, something which the un and other aid agencies say is materially affecting hundreds of thousands, millions of people. when we declared the humanitarian, unilateral ceasefire, we established humanit...a humanitarian corridor through afar. it was the tplf, the tplf that

expanded the conflict and turned this corridor into a conflict zone. why don't you, why don't you end the blockade, mr attorney general? as i said, we had facilitated humanitarian access and corridor through afar. now as far as electricity and other essential services are concerned, the utility companies are the corporations that provide these services. they had there several of their personnel killed in tigray, while they're trying to repair basic infrastructure. they have been subject to attacks. so under the existing insecurities, the continued aggression of the tplf, it would be difficult for these corporations to send their personnel, their employees in tigray. so had the tplf reciprocated the unilateral ceasefire, then it would have been a different circumstance. well, of course, as far as the tigrayans are concerned, and i did speak to a tigrayan

spokesman very recently, you will know that they believe that there is no way they can end their armed struggle until you end the blockade, and there's no sign of it ending. there are also worrying signs that your government sees the international aid agencies, the ngos that are trying to deliver help to hundreds of thousands of people who are facing famine in tigray, you appear to see them as part of the problem. one government spokesman, redwan hussein, recently referred to aid groups as "playing a destructive role". what is that supposed to mean? that's only a reference to a very small minority of organisations. the overwhelming majority of aid organisations are providing aid and assistance to those in need. we are cooperating with them. we facilitate their work, so we don't have a problem with them. and as i have noted earlier, when we declared the unilateral ceasefire, our objective, our intent was for humanitarian

aid to reach the people, people in tigray without any hindrance. that's why we established the corridors through afar. we allowed humanitarian flights to take off from addis and fly to mekelle. but the continued aggression from the side of the tplf has created a situation on the ground that is making things more and more complicated. i think people watching and listening to this conversation are going to find it hard to understand that while hundreds of thousands of people in the north of your country are facing the imminent threat of famine, hundreds of thousands have been displaced, are currently living in camps, you, in your government, have suspended the operations of various aid organisations, including medecins sans frontieres�* holland branch and also the norwegian refugee council.

why on earth have you done that? um... you have to understand that all the organisations that provide assistance and aid that operate in our territory have to respect our rules and regulations. as i have mentioned earlier, the overwhelming majority of humanitarian organisations have no problem with this and they continue to provide assistance and aid. these organisations are trying to keep people alive and you're stopping them operating. that's not the case. there has been administrative measures, but these measures are to ensure compliance with the appropriate regulations. as i have stated earlier, several organisations numbering in the hundreds are operating all over the country providing assistance for those in need. we don't have

a problem with them. we are working with them. we have a very constructive relationship and we are also in consultation, in dialogue with these entities you have mentioned and we believe that they will be able to rectify the violations very soon and we'll be able to reinstate their licence. you are ethiopia's attorney general. have you read the report from the university of ghent in belgium that went forensically through lists of people, named individuals who have been killed, civilians who have been killed in the fighting in tigray? they have come up with 2,562 civilians who died in 232 incidents, which the university of ghent researchers are calling massacres in tigray over the last several months. have you read that report and what have you done about it? we take all such allegations,

all such reports seriously and we look into these. we conduct investigations. we are committed to ensuring accountability. the government of ethiopia does not condone any such violations. and as we have tried to communicate to the public at large previously, we have conducted several investigations. there are additional investigations that are under way both through the civilian and military tracks. and whenever we identify perpetrators, to the extent we find these kind of reports credible, we take measures to ensure accountability. amnesty international have released a report this month, again using more than 60 testimonies from eyewitnesses, which they say provides overwhelming evidence of systematic sexual abuse, rape and other terrible forms

of sexual abuse carried out by ethiopian army forces in tigray since the beginning of this conflict. when you talk aboutjustice and accountability, what have you done about that? we are conducting and we have conducted investigations. we have held several of our own soldiers responsible, many have been court—martialled. there are ongoing investigations. these are things we take seriously. we don't condone this kind of behaviour. we don't tolerate this kind of human rights violations. but i must also point out that some of these reports you have mentioned, um... ..there is a tendency to sensationalise. there is a tendency to draw very sweeping conclusions that are not supported by the extent and scope of the investigation. some of them have also adopted methodologies that we think are rather flawed. be that as it may, as i have said earlier, both through a civilian track

and a military track, we have conducted investigations. i find it hard to believe your government is taking these allegations seriously when one of your own spokespeople described the amnesty international report as nothing more than "sensationalised attacks and smears". if you were serious about these terrible allegations, which involve accusations of victims being held in captivity for days and being systematically raped, some being handed over for sexual slavery, some being raped in front of their children, if you took these accusations seriously, you would have dozens and dozens of members of your armed forces behind bars right now. as i've said, these kinds of matters are matters we take seriously. yes, there could be sensationalised reports and there are sensationalised reports drawing very

exaggerated and unsubstantiated conclusions. but we take the victims seriously. we have conducted investigations and more than dozens of our own soldiers have been sentenced to serious, serious penalties, some including to life in prison. how many? more than 30. and... so our action speaks for itself. and in addition to this, i want to point out that the ethiopian armed forces are... the ethiopian national defence force is a disciplined fighting force. it is a force that has a long track record of serving within the un framework, going back as far as the korean war and in several parts of the continent. its reputation for discipline, for integrity is there for all to see. i'm sorry, mr attorney general, but if you're telling me more

than 30 soldiers have been convicted of the most serious sexual crimes in the course of this conflict over the last few months, there is clearly something much deeper going on. how many senior commanders of the ethiopian military have been fired and held to account for what their men are doing? because this isn't just a one—off. this is systematic. if you read the amnesty international report, that is quite plain. we don't agree with their conclusion that this was systematic. they have conducted their report, their investigation remotely. they have relied on what they call community workers. we are very sceptical of who those community workers might be. we conduct our investigations on the ground. and as far as accountability is concerned, our commitment, our seriousness has also been

demonstrated by the fact that we have allowed the un high commissioner for human rights to conduct a joint investigation with the ethiopian human rights commission. only a government that is transparent, that is committed to the highest standards and values would allow, would permit this kind of scrutiny. attorney general, you're right to point to this joint investigation and the un human rights commissioner is involved. she says she takes the amnesty international report very seriously. but there's another very profound problem here. you're the attorney general of ethiopia. some of these allegations of the most extreme sexual violence come as allegations directed to eritrean troops operating at the invitation of your government on your territory. you have no ability to deliver justice and accountability for the crimes committed by eritrean troops, do you?

regardless of who the perpetrators might be, our responsibility and our position is that we conduct investigations, we establish the facts. if there are individuals who are beyond ourjurisdiction, there are established protocols and procedures to seek international legal cooperation, to work in collaboration with the authorities that have jurisdiction in neighbouring countries, so this is a process that is under way. we work with neighbouring countries on these kind of issues, so i think it's too early to jump to conclusions. and i would say that based on our actions and our conduct so far, our commitment to accountability is very clear. and i must point also out that we are rather disappointed and a bit dismayed by the fact that several atrocities that are being committed by the terrorists, tplf,

against civilians, including children, is not being denounced. it's not being looked into by international humanitarian human rights organisations. if you had watched my interview with the spokesman for the tplf, you will know that i went into great detail. ido... i would like to acknowledge that, and i do recognise that. thank you. it's important that we challenge both sides in this conflict. let's get back to your side. let's get back to the language being used by your own prime minister, abiy ahmed, who just last month used these words to describe the tigray people's liberation front — he described them as "a cancer", as "weeds", as "a disease." he said that "these weeds will be removed from our country." as attorney general

in a climate where there are accusations of ethnic cleansing, war crimes, crimes against humanity, what do you think of the language being used by your own prime minister? the statement issued by the office of the prime minister was referring to a terrorist organisation. there have been instances in the past in which notable world leaders have used similar language to refer to terrorist organisations like isis. so, you know, given the pain and agony that the tplf is causing to the people of ethiopia, notjust the recent massacres and atrocities it has committed, but what has transpired over the past three decades, that is a sentiment that most ethiopians share. the problem is that what we see happening in the country is that, for example, in addis ababa, it's quite plain over the last couple of months, hundreds of ethnic tigrayan people have been

rounded up and detained by your security forces. we see, in reaction, the american usaid chief, samantha power, saying, "dehumanising rhetoric hardens tensions and can historically "accompany ethnically—motivated atrocities." do you understand why the international community is increasingly concerned by what they see and hear coming from your government? the tplf has legitimately been designated as a terrorist organisation by our parliament. anyone who supports, provides material assistance or sponsors this kind of organisation would have to be held accountable. the tplf happens to be an organisation organised along ethnic lines, so most of its supporters, most of its operatives or financiers

happen to be, not all of them, but most of them happen to be from one ethnic group, so sometimes some outsiders might not understand this context, this situation and the challenge we face. so i understand where they are coming from, but they also have to understand the environment within which we are operating. what do you think are the prospects for the continued unity of your country? the leader of the tplf said not long ago, mr gebremichael, he said, "trust has broken completely, and if they don't want us..." — referring to you in the addis government — "..if they don't want us, why should we stay?" there is a real risk of your country... ..your country falling apart, isn't there? it's not falling apart. you have to remember, this is a very ancient and very resilient state, a very resilient nation.

we have overcome all sorts of challenges in our long history when we come united, when we are determined. and i believe where there is a determination and resolve to neutralise the threat we face from the tplf, we can overcome this challenge. the tplf seems to be intent on either destroying ethiopia. it doesn't seem to be willing to tolerate an ethiopia that it can't dominate, that it can't... ..it can't rule. and its objective of either reasserting hegemony or dismembering ethiopia, these are not objectives acceptable to the people of ethiopia. there really doesn't seem to be a unified position now amongst all of the people of all of ethiopia. i'm just very mindful of what abiy ahmed said when he won that nobel peace prize back

in december 2019. he said, "before we can harvest peace dividends, "we must plant seeds of love, forgiveness and reconciliation "in the hearts and minds of our citizens." very far from love, forgiveness and reconciliation. your government right now seems intent on crushing the tigrayan rebels, eliminating the so—called cancer. and that doesn't sound like love, reconciliation and forgiveness. we have practised forgiveness. we have practised our reconciliation. when the new administration came to power, the sins and transgressions of the tplf were forgiven. the tplf was given an opportunity to be part of the body politic of the ethiopian state despite the gross and systematic human rights violations and misrule. there were repeated efforts on the part of this government to find amicable solutions for the differences we had with the tplf.

it is the tplf that triggered the conflict. dragged us into this conflict. you have to remember that this is not a conflict that we chose. it is a conflict that has been imposed upon us when the tplf attacked the northern command. but there is no military solution, is there, mr attorney general? in the end, this will have to be resolved through dialogue and compromise. and right now, your government isn't talking the language of dialogue and compromise. when we declared a unilateral ceasefire, we are giving peace a chance, but the tplf... i'm sorry, your prime minister just told the nation that all able—bodied civilians should join the fight to crush the tigrayan rebels. that's not a ceasefire. when we declared the unilateral

ceasefire, the tplf instead of reciprocating that unilateral ceasefire, expanded the conflict. it went on the offensive into afar, into the amhara regional state. it displaced hundreds of thousands. it killed hundreds of civilians. under these circumstances, what are we expected to do? the tplf, as a terrorist organisation, with its continued belligerence and aggression made the ceasefire untenable. under these circumstances, we have a right and responsibility to defend our population, and that's what we are doing. gedion timothewos, we have to end there, but i thank ——to defend our population, and that's what we are doing. gedion timothewos, we have to end there, but i thank you very much indeed forjoining me from addis ababa. thank you.

hello there. after the rather cloudy weather we had to contend with last week, this week does promise something just a little bit brighter. certainly it will be largely dry with some spells of warm sunshine. having said that, no heat wave on the way. temperatures will be nothing exceptional for the time of year, but high pressure firmly building and in taking control of our weather. that's why it's going to be mainly dry and settled, but the winds around high—pressure flow in a clockwise direction, so we will be pulling our air down from the north and not tapping into any of this heat across parts of southern europe. so, as we head through monday, we will start off with a lot of mist and murk, and certainly quite a lot of cloud around. much of that will break up, though, to reveal some spells of sunshine. i think it will stay a little bit misty and murky for some western coasts, and it's going to be another grey and quite gloomy day across shetland. a small chance for a shower over high ground in western scotland,

wales and the southwest, but most places fine, with light winds, some spells of sunshine, so not feeling too bad, 21—23, maybe 2a celsius in parts of western scotland. now, as we head through monday evening, any showers that do crop up in the west will fade. it's going to be dry, some clear spells, but some areas of cloud. and this area of cloud here may well work into parts of eastern england and perhaps into the midlands, and then continue its journey westwards as we head through the day on tuesday. so it could well cloud over a little bit across some parts of wales, maybe even with the odd spot of drizzle. some misty murky weather clinging to some of these northern and western coasts, but elsewhere, tuesday will bring further spells of sunshine. again, the highest temperatures likely to be across western scotland, maybe parts of northern ireland as well, up to 2a, possibly up to 25 celsius. wednesday, a similar sort of day, best of sunshine in the west. more cloud filtering into eastern areas, and also this noticeable northerly wind starting to develop close to eastern coasts. so that will knock the edge off

the temperatures here, the highest temperatures once again out towards the west. now, a subtle change as we head towards thursday. 0ur area of high pressure is likely to drift away northwards, allowing this frontal system to work into the picture. not a lot of rain with that, but a lot of cloud into eastern areas, and coupled with that strong northerly breeze, it is going to feel really quite cool for eastern coasts. not quite as cool further west, but even here, temperatures coming down a little as we head towards the end of the week.