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tv   BBC News  BBC News  September 1, 2021 2:00pm-5:01pm BST

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this is bbc news. i'm xxxx. i martine croxall. the headlines: the government says talks are taking place with the taliban to secure safe passage out of afghanistan for a number of british nationals and afghans who remain there. it comes as the taliban tell the bbc that their new government will be announced soon — and there'll be no women in senior roles. in this new government which has been announced, in the top posts — i mean to say, in the cabinet — there may not be women. the foreign secretary dominic raab is due to appear before mps to answer questions about his and the government's handling of the crisis in afghanistan. and we are going straight they are now to hear dominic raab in front of the foreign affairs select
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committee. 50 the foreign affairs select committee.— the foreign affairs select committee. ~ , ., committee. so i think it is worth remembering. — committee. so i think it is worth remembering, these _ committee. so i think it is worth remembering, these are - committee. so i think it is worth remembering, these are not - committee. so i think it is worth - remembering, these are not personal questions, these are questions to the government from the people of the government from the people of the united kingdom and parliament. thank you very much, foreign secretary, for coming in. may ijust start by asking how many of your ministers are overseas at the moment? i ministers are overseas at the moment?— ministers are overseas at the moment? ., �* ., ., , . , moment? i don't have that precise detail, but — moment? i don't have that precise detail. but we _ moment? i don't have that precise detail, but we have _ moment? i don't have that precise detail, but we have a _ moment? i don't have that precise detail, but we have a rota - moment? i don't have that precise detail, but we have a rota systeml moment? i don't have that precise l detail, but we have a rota system in place, which means we are always ready, able and willing to cover. so there is always an ability to back cover. �* there is always an ability to back cover. ~ ., there is always an ability to back cover. �* ., y ., there is always an ability to back cover. ~ ., , ., ., there is always an ability to back cover. �* ., y ., . ., , cover. and do you have any either in afghanistan — cover. and do you have any either in afghanistan all _ cover. and do you have any either in afghanistan all the _ cover. and do you have any either in afghanistan all the region _ cover. and do you have any either in afghanistan all the region around i afghanistan all the region around afghanistan all the region around afghanistan at the moment? 50 afghanistan all the region around afghanistan at the moment? so we are alwa s ve afghanistan at the moment? so we are always very careful _ afghanistan at the moment? so we are always very careful about _ afghanistan at the moment? so we are always very careful about signalling - always very careful about signalling travel movements, because of the security and purgation, but i can tell you i am leaving after this committee to go to the region, and other ministers will of course be engaged in similar diplomatic endeavours, whether it is by phone or indeed by travel. find endeavours, whether it is by phone or indeed by travel.— or indeed by travel. and since 'ust before the fall fl or indeed by travel. and since 'ust before the fall of i
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or indeed by travel. and since 'ust before the fall of kabul * or indeed by travel. and since 'ust before the fall of kabul on i or indeed by travel. and since 'ust before the fall of kabul on the]. or indeed by travel. and since just| before the fall of kabul on the 15th of august, how many contacts did you have with people in the region? well, just to give you a sense as i think has already been made clear, but throughout august, have spoken with foreign minister qureshi for example, the prime minister spoke to prime minister khan. lord ahmed was in pakistan during june. opportunities for all those conversations. and we obviously stay in regular touch with our ambassadors. it is probably also worth in terms of pakistan and afghanistan explaining some contact. from early 2019, we have been facilitating a private, high—level channel between afghanistan and pakistan. it was led by the chief of the defence staff, it was bolstered
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by senior officials in my department, and one of the reasons we set it up and wanted to continue it and indeed have it report directly to me was to make sure we had more grounded advice on that of elements on the ground and a greater ability to influence it. i oversaw that directly. cvs reported to me, fco officials did as well, and it is of supplementary means but quite an important one, given the normal channels. i am very happy to give you the outline, but clearly we are quite careful about what we say more generally, but it does provide, i think, some context in 2020 and 2021 of the engagement. i wonder whether i could just take this opportunity, mr chairman, to point out from the period of mid march to the 30th of august, i had over a0 meetings or telephone calls where afghanistan was on the agenda. so that's broadly
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one at least every four days, and that will vary from the nato foreign ministers meetings, the g7 foreign ministers meetings, the g7 foreign ministers meetings, the g7 foreign ministers meeting is where i put afghanistan on the agenda, through to the bilateral contacts with the likes of turkey, through to un special envoy. also bear in mind, i appreciate there is a waste scrutiny about things like calls, this is taking place along with the range of other simmering issues, which may or may not bubble up the crisis. iraq, the situation there is very delicate. iran, jcpoa negotiations, the dual national situation, tax on shipping, yemen, somalia, belarus, ukraine, coupled with covid, so i just make the point very gently if i may of having a delegation, division of labour is between ministers, particularly my ministers of state, is actually an essential part of the work we do. is actually an essential part of the work we de— is actually an essential part of the work we do— work we do. foreign secretary i auree work we do. foreign secretary i agree with _ work we do. foreign secretary i agree with you _ work we do. foreign secretary i agree with you absolutely, -
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work we do. foreign secretary i - agree with you absolutely, therefore may i ask very briefly when was the last time a foreign minister went to uzbekistan? i’m last time a foreign minister went to uzbekistan? �* ., , last time a foreign minister went to uzbekistan?— uzbekistan? i'm not sure, i would have to check. _ uzbekistan? i'm not sure, i would have to check. when _ uzbekistan? i'm not sure, i would have to check. when was - uzbekistan? i'm not sure, i would have to check. when was the - uzbekistan? i'm not sure, i would have to check. when was the last | have to check. when was the last time a foreign — have to check. when was the last time a foreign minister— have to check. when was the last time a foreign minister went - have to check. when was the last time a foreign minister went to l time a foreign minister went to tajikistan? time a foreign minister went to ta'ikistan? �* ., time a foreign minister went to tajikistan?— time a foreign minister went to ta'ikistan? �* . ., �* ., tajikistan? again, i don't have the visit list, but _ tajikistan? again, i don't have the visit list, but i _ tajikistan? again, i don't have the visit list, but i am _ tajikistan? again, i don't have the visit list, but i am very _ tajikistan? again, i don't have the visit list, but i am very happy, - tajikistan? again, i don't have the visit list, but i am very happy, if. visit list, but i am very happy, if you give me your list, to provide it. for example, in uzbekistan, of course, given the need to ensure third—party safe passage to third countries, lord ahmed has been in touch with the uzbekistan e prime minister. i was scheduled to speak to them, i will speak to them tomorrow, today is a national holiday. we engage with them. if you are wanting to know the villas, i will come back —— know the visits. i will come back —— know the visits. i will come back to you. it will come back -- know the visits. i will come back to you.— will come back to you. it seems to be a route — will come back to you. it seems to be a route that _ will come back to you. it seems to be a route that worked _ will come back to you. it seems to be a route that worked effectively| be a route that worked effectively dreamily for germany because that although they have just closed the border. although they have 'ust closed the border. , ., ., ., border. indie they have now that the germans got —
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border. indie they have now that the germans got their _ border. indie they have now that the germans got their people _ border. indie they have now that the germans got their people out - border. indie they have now that the germans got their people out first. i germans got their people out first. would you like me to speak to third country, what we are doing? i am about to come — country, what we are doing? i am about to come to _ country, what we are doing? i am about to come to that, _ country, what we are doing? i —n about to come to that, because you will also have had contact with our missions in these countries before the 15th of august, in order to prepare for a likely fall of kabul, or indeed a collapse of the regime. and i would be very grateful for when you spoke, or whether you can remember speaking to people like matthew lawson or hugh philpott for example. mi matthew lawson or hugh philpott for examle. �* ., ., matthew lawson or hugh philpott for examle. ., ., ., example. all of our ambassadors would feed _ example. all of our ambassadors would feed in _ example. all of our ambassadors would feed in their— example. all of our ambassadors would feed in their advice - example. all of our ambassadors | would feed in their advice through the centre, particularly by the time we set up the fcd oh emergency response team. so actually, i wouldn't come it will depend on the issue, obviously i have been in regular contact with bristow and i have had discussions with various different ambassadors who have joint meetings. but the way it works is
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ambassadors go through the advice, it is triage up, we get it together, and it is brought together, so i get and it is brought together, so i get an full picture, and that is done through for example during the time we have the emergency response team operating and evacuation, and indeed before my director for afghanistan, nigel casey, and my director general. ., ,., nigel casey, and my director general. ., ., , general. the reason i ask these questions _ general. the reason i ask these questions is _ general. the reason i ask these questions is because _ general. the reason i ask these questions is because in - general. the reason i ask these questions is because in your - general. the reason i ask these i questions is because in your media round yesterday, you said it wasn't the responsibility of the foreign office for the errors in intelligence that had led us to this position. ijust wondered, i mean, clearly the prime minister is responsible for the joint intelligence committee assessments it makes, is that where the responsibility lies, with the premise to?— responsibility lies, with the premise to? responsibility lies, with the remiseto? a ., , premise to? actually you will recall after the chilcott _ premise to? actually you will recall after the chilcott enquiry _ premise to? actually you will recall after the chilcott enquiry into - premise to? actually you will recall after the chilcott enquiry into the l after the chilcott enquiry into the second iraq war, the day ric was
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there to avoid political isolation. —— met with the] ric. but you have the military, the diplomatic assessment on top of that. there was assessment on top of that. there was a collective assessment _ assessment on top of that. there was a collective assessment through - assessment on top of that. there was a collective assessment through the l a collective assessment through the jit a collective assessment through the jit that you were referring to. it wasn't particularly a military assessment, is that correct? the jic is there to provide _ assessment, is that correct? the jic is there to provide the _ assessment, is that correct? the jic is there to provide the intelligence | is there to provide the intelligence and that is backed up by the military assessment. for example, things like intent, though frankly it is the cross cutting issue. the central assessment we operated two and it was backed up by both thele and it was backed up by both thele and the military is that the most likely central proposition was that given the troop withdrawal by the end of august, he would see a steady deterioration from that point, and
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it was unlikely kabul would fall this year. that was the central assessment, and of course with all the usual caveats that you will be familiar with, that doesn't mean we didn't do contingency planning or game out or test the other propositions, just to be clear that is something that was widely shared, that view, among nato allies. mar; is something that was widely shared, that view, among nato allies. magi that view, among nato allies. may i come straight _ that view, among nato allies. may i come straight onto _ that view, among nato allies. may i come straight onto that? _ that view, among nato allies. may i come straight onto that? you - that view, among nato allies. i— i come straight onto that? you are clearly responsible for overseeing two of our intelligence agencies, did their intelligence differ from that assessment? i did their intelligence differ from that assessment?— did their intelligence differ from that assessment? i am certainly not auoin to that assessment? i am certainly not going to go — that assessment? i am certainly not going to go into _ that assessment? i am certainly not going to go into the _ that assessment? i am certainly not going to go into the details - that assessment? i am certainly not going to go into the details for- that assessment? i am certainly not going to go into the details for all. going to go into the details for all intelligence. the whole point of the ch is intelligence. the whole point of the jic is to distil and provide a rounded assessment and i think that's quite right. and i think they did theirjob very professionally. so may ijust ask did theirjob very professionally. so may i just ask your did theirjob very professionally. so may ijust ask your principal risk report of 22nd ofjuly 2021 raid on afghanistan," peace talks have stalled and us nato withdrawal
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has led to rapid caliban advances. it could lead to taliban return to power, mass displacement and significant need. the embassy may need to close if situation deteriorates".— need to close if situation deteriorates". . ., ., deteriorates". the source of that? your principal— deteriorates". the source of that? your principal risk _ deteriorates". the source of that? your principal risk report. - deteriorates". the source of that? your principal risk report. as - deteriorates". the source of that? your principal risk report. as i - your principal risk report. as i said, of course we are very mindful of that. 1&5 said, of course we are very mindful of that. �* , _, said, of course we are very mindful of that. �* , ,, ., ., ,, said, of course we are very mindful of that. �* , ,, ., of that. as i said, if you look at hirh of that. as i said, if you look at hiuh risk of that. as i said, if you look at high risk embassies, _ of that. as i said, if you look at high risk embassies, from - of that. as i said, if you look at high risk embassies, from the l of that. as i said, if you look at - high risk embassies, from the point of view of the embassy�*s safety, as opposed to the evacuation, i think those two things are important to is to distinguish. we have a standard evacuation process for high risk embassies, like kabul. obviously thatis embassies, like kabul. obviously that is reviewed, and has to evolve and adapt to conditions, which is why what you said is timely and of course we keep it under review. assessment remained until late that
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it would be incremental, and the planning for military withdrawal obviously began in april. but the contingency plan was also there for a more rapid deterioration, and you can see that in the run—up to the g7 summit injune, one of my focuses was, as we anticipated, the potential shift from the embassy in the green zone to the airport and the green zone to the airport and the type and area was making sure that the so—called enablers, things like evacuation capacity —— the taipan evacuation, the security in the airport was in place, and we did all of that to make sure we could shift from the green zone as we did from the airport on the 13th of august. that is why we speeded up the recruitment of former afghan staffer stop we changed our travel
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advice in april, that is why the number of uk staff in the cardle embassy was drawn down from 150 to 75 in may. so whilst the central assessment was the one i described, it doesn't mean we weren't doing contingency planning. can it doesn't mean we weren't doing contingency planning.— it doesn't mean we weren't doing contingency planning. can i ask on the contingency — contingency planning. can i ask on the contingency plan _ contingency planning. can i ask on the contingency plan very - the contingency plan very specifically, when did you last update the non—competent evacuation order for afghanistan? update the non—competent evacuation orderforafghanistan? i update the non-competent evacuation order for afghanistan?— order for afghanistan? i would have to check that. _ order for afghanistan? i would have to check that, but _ order for afghanistan? i would have to check that, but i _ order for afghanistan? i would have to check that, but i can _ order for afghanistan? i would have to check that, but i can tell - order for afghanistan? i would have to check that, but i can tell you - order for afghanistan? i would have to check that, but i can tell you we | to check that, but i can tell you we started planning injune for the contingency of an evacuation, and therefore a full drawdown of the embassy, notwithstanding the central steph's set —— assessment still made. the timing in all of this was synchronised with what our fellow nato allies were doing. as well as the domestic process we were ducking and checking and sense checking with our nato allies about how they saw
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things running. 1&5 our nato allies about how they saw things running-— things running. as part of that, presumably. — things running. as part of that, presumably. you _ things running. as part of that, presumably, you knew - things running. as part of that, presumably, you knew how- things running. as part of that, l presumably, you knew how many british citizens or entitled people were going to be required your citizens —— your services? i’m were going to be required your citizens -- your services? i'm not sure that — citizens -- your services? i'm not sure that is _ citizens -- your services? i'm not sure that is true, _ citizens -- your services? i'm not sure that is true, because - citizens -- your services? i'm not sure that is true, because of- citizens -- your services? i'm not sure that is true, because of the l sure that is true, because of the combination particularly in afghanistan and notjust documented passport nationals who may be backpacking, or whatever it may be, but also, this was one of the great challenges, the incidence of large families, some of whom were documented, mono nationals, dual nationals, perhaps, but nonetheless documented, others who had a less clear status either because of their eligibility or the lack of documentation, so that is one of the reasons it has been difficult to give a definitive account of the number. in give a definitive account of the number. . u, , give a definitive account of the number. . h, , ._ give a definitive account of the number. . u, , ._ ., ,~ number. in that case, may i ask, because your _ number. in that case, may i ask, because your assessment - number. in that case, may i ask, because your assessment of - number. in that case, may i ask, because your assessment of the | because your assessment of the number of people requiring evacuation went from about 5000 to about 15,000 who were evacuated. could you tell me why you are confident of your numbers of those
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remaining in afghanistan now? irate confident of your numbers of those remaining in afghanistan now? we are not confident — remaining in afghanistan now? we are not confident with _ remaining in afghanistan now? we are not confident with any _ remaining in afghanistan now? we are not confident with any precision - remaining in afghanistan now? we are not confident with any precision at - not confident with any precision at all, because, for two reasons... we don't think that, we think in terms of nationals, we are into the hundreds, possibly the mid to low hundreds. but again, it depends on eligibility, which of course it's one of the things that has been a challenge. what i would say is this, we got broadly, let me check the number so i we got broadly, let me check the numberso i give we got broadly, let me check the number so i give you exactly the right figure. we got... something like in that estimate of 500 out between april the 15th —— between april and the 15th of august. in terms of british nationals, a further roughly 7000 out during the period between the 15th and the 29th of august.
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period between the 15th and the 29th of au . ust. , ., period between the 15th and the 29th of au~ust. , ., i. period between the 15th and the 29th of au~ust. , ., ,, ., ., of august. eliseu, do you want to come in? — of august. eliseu, do you want to come in? a _ of august. eliseu, do you want to come in? a quick _ of august. eliseu, do you want to come in? a quick question - of august. eliseu, do you want to come in? a quick question about| come in? a quick question about coalition building. _ come in? a quick question about coalition building. in _ come in? a quick question about coalition building. in terms - come in? a quick question about coalition building. in terms of. come in? a quick question about coalition building. in terms of a l coalition building. in terms of a coalition— coalition building. in terms of a coalition to prevent this outcome, see the _ coalition to prevent this outcome, see the uk— coalition to prevent this outcome, see the uk remain with our allies. what _ see the uk remain with our allies. what went— see the uk remain with our allies. what went so horribly wrong that only turkey was willing to stand by the uk. _ only turkey was willing to stand by the uk, and what could we have done to build _ the uk, and what could we have done to build a _ the uk, and what could we have done to build a better partnership to work— to build a better partnership to work in — to build a better partnership to work in coalition with the us? | work in coalition with the us? i think work in coalition with the us? think this work in coalition with the us? i think this is one of the really important thing is to nail, and i have said all along i was very keen that the foreign office had a reality check about some of the optimism by, including the optimism bias that the americans will change their mind. if you look at the february 2020 decision by the previous administration, and then you follow what was happening in the presidential election campaign, and then you follow what the signs were and then indeed the decision by the incoming biden administration, i think one of the things i would say is there was some wishful thinking in some quarters internationally. that the biden administration would
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change or dramatically alter, and i always thought, and i think this is correct and accurate, and i have discussed this with cameron pearce, that the election campaign had baked in a broad not exact consensus about some finality to this.— some finality to this. forgive me, i think with biden _ some finality to this. forgive me, i think with biden there _ some finality to this. forgive me, i think with biden there was - some finality to this. forgive me, i think with biden there was no - think with biden there was no question— think with biden there was no question he was going to leave, he has wanted — question he was going to leave, he has wanted to do that for 20 years, he had _ has wanted to do that for 20 years, he had always been pushing obama to leave. _ he had always been pushing obama to leave. that _ he had always been pushing obama to leave, that had been biden packs whole _ leave, that had been biden packs whole purpose to leave afghanistan. why couldn't we convince france, germany. — why couldn't we convince france, germany, any of our allies to form a new coalition — germany, any of our allies to form a new coalition on the ground, making up new coalition on the ground, making up the _ new coalition on the ground, making up the numbers the americans were taking _ up the numbers the americans were taking out? — up the numbers the americans were taking out? if up the numbers the americans were takin: out? , ., up the numbers the americans were takin: out? i. ., ., ~' up the numbers the americans were takin: out? ,. ., taking out? if you look at the military capacity _ taking out? if you look at the i military capacity proportionally that the us put in and therefore the shortfall, i don't think there was any will or appetite, and again, the defence secretary has talked about this, we were very clear, come the nato summit, that i attended in the foreign ministers meeting, that partners should stick to the maxim nato would go in together, they would adapt the mission as they did
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in 201a, they would exit together, so if i am honest with you, i don't think there was any viable alternative coalition wants the us decision had been taken, and again i think there needs to be some reality with that, because it is clear to me that there was not going to be anyone that could backfill for the capacity of the us provided and the us was unlikely to shift the parameters beyond a few months, and thatis parameters beyond a few months, and that is exactly what happened. {biden that is exactly what happened. given that is exactly what happened. given that was the case _ that is exactly what happened. given that was the case and _ that is exactly what happened. given that was the case and that _ that is exactly what happened. given that was the case and that you - that was the case and that you foresaw this, why is it the french evacuated every body they had, and it was dependent on them, and we were scrabbling around with huge press of crowds at the airport and sadly have lost a lot of people behind? �* . ., ., ., ., , behind? i'm afraid the analogy i don't think— behind? i'm afraid the analogy i don't think runs. _ behind? i'm afraid the analogy i don't think runs. i _ behind? i'm afraid the analogy i don't think runs. i don't - behind? i'm afraid the analogy i don't think runs. i don't think i behind? i'm afraid the analogy i l don't think runs. i don't think you are comparing like for like. we got out over 15,000 in the last few weeks of august. if you look back to
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april when we started to advise, we gave the travel advice people should leave, we extradited the arab programme, the reality was many afghans are so between those two periods, 2500 i think broadly left, including arab and british nationals, but the reality was given the scale of numbers that we have, and the size and nature of our population, there were lots of people who were taken by surprise by the scale and pace of the taliban advance. therefore they only came relatively late on. so we were doing everything we could, we got 2500 out, but the lion's share, as you would know, came with the surge for the door once it was evident that kabul was likely to fall. bab. the door once it was evident that kabul was likely to fall. bob, you wanted to come _ kabul was likely to fall. bob, you wanted to come in. _ kabul was likely to fall. bob, you wanted to come in. just - kabul was likely to fall. bob, you wanted to come in. just for - wanted to come in. just for clarity's — wanted to come in. just for clarity's state, _ wanted to come in. just for clarity's state, in _
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wanted to come in. just for clarity's state, in the - wanted to come in. just for clarity's state, in the past i wanted to come in. just for - clarity's state, in the past couple of days _ clarity's state, in the past couple of days you — clarity's state, in the past couple of days you have _ clarity's state, in the past couple of days you have said _ clarity's state, in the past couple of days you have said everyone l clarity's state, in the past couple i of days you have said everyone was caught _ of days you have said everyone was caught by— of days you have said everyone was caught by surprise _ of days you have said everyone was caught by surprise and _ of days you have said everyone was caught by surprise and that - of days you have said everyone was caught by surprise and that the - caught by surprise and that the coalition— caught by surprise and that the coalition was— caught by surprise and that the coalition was clearly— caught by surprise and that the coalition was clearly wrong. - caught by surprise and that the i coalition was clearly wrong. why caught by surprise and that the - coalition was clearly wrong. why was that, coalition was clearly wrong. why was that. is— coalition was clearly wrong. why was that. is it _ coalition was clearly wrong. why was that, is it because _ coalition was clearly wrong. why was that, is it because we _ coalition was clearly wrong. why was that, is it because we were - coalition was clearly wrong. why was that, is it because we were being - that, is it because we were being led by— that, is it because we were being led by an— that, is it because we were being led by an overoptimistic - that, is it because we were being. led by an overoptimistic assessment by the _ led by an overoptimistic assessment by the us. _ led by an overoptimistic assessment by the us. is— led by an overoptimistic assessment by the us. is that _ led by an overoptimistic assessment by the us, is that a _ led by an overoptimistic assessment by the us, is that a collective - by the us, is that a collective failure — by the us, is that a collective failure on _ by the us, is that a collective failure on the _ by the us, is that a collective failure on the part _ by the us, is that a collective failure on the part of- by the us, is that a collective failure on the part of the - by the us, is that a collective failure on the part of the uk, | by the us, is that a collective - failure on the part of the uk, was the information— failure on the part of the uk, was the information different - failure on the part of the uk, was the information different from . failure on the part of the uk, wasl the information different from the mititary— the information different from the military as — the information different from the military as opposed _ the information different from the military as opposed to _ the information different from the military as opposed to the - military as opposed to the diplomatic— military as opposed to the diplomatic channels, - military as opposed to the i diplomatic channels, why did military as opposed to the - diplomatic channels, why did we get it so badly— diplomatic channels, why did we get it so badly wrong? _ diplomatic channels, why did we get it so badly wrong? i— diplomatic channels, why did we get it so badly wrong?— it so badly wrong? i think there's a ranue it so badly wrong? i think there's a ranae of it so badly wrong? i think there's a range of assumptions _ it so badly wrong? i think there's a range of assumptions that - it so badly wrong? i think there's a range of assumptions that one, - it so badly wrong? i think there's a | range of assumptions that one, the optimism bias about what the us might or might not do, two, i think around the intent of the taliban. i always cautioned that i thought the taliban were unlikely, once the us decision to withdraw was clear, to engage in particularly meaningful dialogue around a more inclusive government, and seize the opportunity to take control. that relates to intent. the much bigger question, whether they had the
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capacity to back up that intent, and i think in fairness that is something which collectively, cross allies, clearly the assessment that they would not be able to advance at that speed was not correct, and we will need to look and assess about why that is the case. can will need to look and assess about why that is the case.— will need to look and assess about why that is the case. can you go any further on that _ why that is the case. can you go any further on that today _ why that is the case. can you go any further on that today as _ why that is the case. can you go any further on that today as to - why that is the case. can you go any further on that today as to why - why that is the case. can you go any further on that today as to why and l further on that today as to why and where _ further on that today as to why and where you — further on that today as to why and where you think, _ further on that today as to why and where you think, and _ further on that today as to why and where you think, and this- further on that today as to why and where you think, and this is- further on that today as to why and where you think, and this is about| where you think, and this is about learning _ where you think, and this is about learning for— where you think, and this is about learning for the _ where you think, and this is about learning for the future, _ where you think, and this is about learning for the future, not - where you think, and this is about learning for the future, not just i learning for the future, not just about— learning for the future, not just about finding _ learning for the future, not just about finding a _ learning for the future, not just about finding a scapegoat, - learning for the future, not just. about finding a scapegoat, about where _ about finding a scapegoat, about where that — about finding a scapegoat, about where that failure _ about finding a scapegoat, about where that failure came - about finding a scapegoat, about where that failure came from? . about finding a scapegoat, about . where that failure came from? you have _ where that failure came from? you have talked — where that failure came from? you have talked about _ where that failure came from? you have talked about optimism - where that failure came from? you have talked about optimism bias, i have talked about optimism bias, where _ have talked about optimism bias, where there — have talked about optimism bias, where there are _ have talked about optimism bias, where there are other— have talked about optimism bias, where there are other factors - have talked about optimism bias, where there are other factors youj where there are other factors you think— where there are other factors you think were — where there are other factors you think were relevant? _ where there are other factors you think were relevant? [— where there are other factors you think were relevant?— think were relevant? i want to be respectful. _ think were relevant? i want to be respectful. i— think were relevant? i want to be respectful, i tested _ think were relevant? i want to be respectful, i tested the _ think were relevant? i want to be - respectful, i tested the assessments and the evidence, and as i said, partly because of the history of the foreign office being accused itself of having an optimism bias, i wanted us to do the opposite. but ultimately we have a very rigorous process and we will have to look at how the assessment was got wrong. i would offer one reflection and it is no more than that. i think when you have been in a country like afghanistan for 20 years, and all the blood, sweat and tears and toil, and all the sacrifice, and the
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people around this committee will know exactly what that means, i think there is a sense, a desire, and absolute determination to make it work, to make things better, and to believe that you can complete the task. i think there is a question at what point, and this goes back to 2001 right the way through, not an attempt to take responsibility of the last period this government has been in, but at what point did we clearly have identified the military objectives, the means to achieve them, and a clear and coherent exit strategy? i think, them, and a clear and coherent exit strategy? ithink, in them, and a clear and coherent exit strategy? i think, in fairness, them, and a clear and coherent exit strategy? ithink, in fairness, that was something that was much debated at the time, and in 201a at the end of combat operations, but i think there does need to be a consideration of how difficult, when you are in a conflict for 20 years, emotionally if not anything else, it is to extract yourself. stand emotionally if not anything else, it is to extract yourself.— is to extract yourself. and despite the lans is to extract yourself. and despite the plans can _ is to extract yourself. and despite the plans can be _ is to extract yourself. and despite the plans can be were _ is to extract yourself. and despite the plans can be were still- is to extract yourself. and despite the plans can be were still caught| the plans can be were still caught slightly on the hop because of the intelligence failure, despite the best laid plans? is that fair? look,
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we alwa s best laid plans? is that fair? look, we always try _ best laid plans? is that fair? look, we always try as — best laid plans? is that fair? look, we always try as politicians, - we always try as politicians, certainly as ministers, and i'm sure across whitehall, we try and aim out for these things. but you ask me for reflection, actually i think we have got a very professional way of approaching these things. but when they are wrong, and we have seen government forecast that are wrong, this is obviously a different order of things, but you have to look at how you correct that.— how you correct that. what is the united states's _ how you correct that. what is the united states's exit _ how you correct that. what is the united states's exit plan - how you correct that. what is the united states's exit plan from - how you correct that. what is the i united states's exit plan from south korea? i united states's exit plan from south korea? ., �* ~ ., united states's exit plan from south korea? ., �* ~' ., �* korea? i don't know. but, in fairness. _ korea? i don't know. but, in fairness. i— korea? i don't know. but, in fairness, i don't _ korea? i don't know. but, in fairness, i don't think- korea? i don't know. but, in fairness, i don't think that l korea? i don't know. but, in fairness, i don't think that is korea? i don't know. but, in i fairness, i don't think that is a commenced durable commitment, albeit it is a very important one, having been up to the daily militarised zone —— the demilitarised zone, spoken to the commanders and looked across the border, i don't think we see them in harms way, certainly for many years, in the way that they have actively been in harms way in
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afghanistan. have actively been in harms way in afghanistan-— have actively been in harms way in afuhanistan. �* , :: , ., afghanistan. because 20 years after the end of the _ afghanistan. because 20 years after the end of the korean _ afghanistan. because 20 years after the end of the korean war, - afghanistan. because 20 years after the end of the korean war, the - the end of the korean war, the united states still have thousands of troops in what was then a vicious military dictatorship, with an economy smaller than afghanistan's economy smaller than afg hanistan's and economy smaller than afghanistan's and a broken state. but despite that, they endured and pushed through. maybe that is another question. chris? 50 through. maybe that is another question. chris?— through. maybe that is another question. chris? so as i understand it, and question. chris? so as i understand it. and you — question. chris? so as i understand it. and you will _ question. chris? so as i understand it, and you will correct _ question. chris? so as i understand it, and you will correct me - question. chris? so as i understand it, and you will correct me i'm - question. chris? so as i understand it, and you will correct me i'm sure| it, and you will correct me i'm sure if i'm _ it, and you will correct me i'm sure if i'm wrong. — it, and you will correct me i'm sure if i'm wrong, there was a majority intelligence viewer, which was that the afghan forces had managed to hold on— the afghan forces had managed to hold on indefinitely, or certainly for some — hold on indefinitely, or certainly for some period, and then there was a minority— for some period, and then there was a minority view, for which you prepared _ a minority view, for which you prepared a _ a minority view, for which you prepared a contingency plan is that you started injune? and most of your— you started injune? and most of your eggs— you started injune? and most of your eggs were in the majority view basket? _ your eggs were in the majority view basket? and you had a few eggs in the minority view, which was that you might — the minority view, which was that you might have to have a contingency? is that right? i contingency? is that right? wouldn't contingency? is that right? i wouldn't put it quite like that, it is not a question of a minority
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report, you have a central assessment of course. you have worst—case scenarios, which you continuously plan for as well. i think that's quite right. the prime minister said _ think that's quite right. the prime minister said in _ think that's quite right. the prime minister said in the _ think that's quite right. the prime minister said in the house - think that's quite right. the prime minister said in the house of- minister said in the house of commons on the 18th of august what is not _ commons on the 18th of august what is not true _ commons on the 18th of august what is not true is to say that the uk government were underprepared or did not foresee _ government were underprepared or did not foresee this, ie the collapse of kabut— not foresee this, ie the collapse of kabul and — not foresee this, ie the collapse of kabul and the afghan forces, because it was— kabul and the afghan forces, because it was certainly part of our planning. and i suppose then the charge _ planning. and i suppose then the charge is— planning. and i suppose then the charge is that you just didn't put enough — charge is that you just didn't put enough effort into the contingency planning. — enough effort into the contingency planning, isn't it? | enough effort into the contingency planning, isn't it?— planning, isn't it? ithink he is riuhtl planning, isn't it? ithink he is rightly identifying _ planning, isn't it? ithink he is rightly identifying that - planning, isn't it? ithink he is rightly identifying that we - planning, isn't it? ithink he is rightly identifying that we had | rightly identifying that we had planned. let me again, we... this was our planned. let me again, we... this was your plan. _ planned. let me again, we... this was your plan, this _ planned. let me again, we... this was your plan, this is _ planned. let me again, we... this was your plan, this is what you planned? — was your plan, this is what you lanned? ., , , , ., planned? no, it is why we focused on the run-up — planned? no, it is why we focused on the run-up to — planned? no, it is why we focused on the run-up to the _ planned? no, it is why we focused on the run-up to the june _ planned? no, it is why we focused on the run-up to the june g7 _ planned? no, it is why we focused on the run-up to the june g7 summit - the run—up to thejune g7 summit about the shift, the potential shift between the green zone to the airport. it is why we speeded up the relocation of former afghan staff and the europe programme from april onwards, relocating nearly 2000
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during that period, why we changed our travel advance, and just to complete the picture, it is why we reduce the number of uk staff at the kabul embassy in may from 150 to 75. and that is the nature of dealing with a risk—based assessment. you have a central proposition but you are also mindful of dealing with the worst case scenario, even if it is not regarded as likely. but worst case scenario, even if it is not regarded as likely.— worst case scenario, even if it is not regarded as likely. but let me 'ust take not regarded as likely. but let me just take you _ not regarded as likely. but let me just take you through _ not regarded as likely. but let me just take you through some - not regarded as likely. but let me | just take you through some dates. the us— just take you through some dates. the us had — just take you through some dates. the us had left the two main air bases _ the us had left the two main air bases in — the us had left the two main air bases in kandahar and bag room by the 2nd _ bases in kandahar and bag room by the 2nd of— bases in kandahar and bag room by the 2nd ofjuly. on the 8th ofjuly, several— the 2nd ofjuly. on the 8th ofjuly, several mps in the house of commons told the _ several mps in the house of commons told the prime minister that the tatiban— told the prime minister that the taliban were likely to take large parts _ taliban were likely to take large parts of— taliban were likely to take large parts of the country. on the 14th of july. _ parts of the country. on the 14th of july. the _ parts of the country. on the 14th of july, the taliban had seized all the major— july, the taliban had seized all the major border crossings into turgid chris— major border crossings into turgid chris dunn. — major border crossings into turgid chris dunn, iran and pakistan. —— choge _ chris dunn, iran and pakistan. —— choge kristie _ chris dunn, iran and pakistan. —— choge kristie ahn. the 24th ofjuly the us— choge kristie ahn. the 24th ofjuly the us said the taliban had seized
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half the _ the us said the taliban had seized half the country, but we only, you only, _ half the country, but we only, you only, change the travel advice for british— only, change the travel advice for british nationals going to afghanistan on the 6th of august. that's_ afghanistan on the 6th of august. that's not— afghanistan on the 6th of august. that's not quite true. in april, we changed our travel advice to advise british nationals to consider leaving afghanistan full stop we changed it again to make it more stringent in august. we started in june, notwithstanding the central assessment, the contingency plans for a military led evacuation, which is the big shift, and it is worth just saying that commercial flights were still running up until the iath of august. even after we had changed the travel advice on the 6th of august that you cited. fin the travel advice on the 6th of august that you cited.- the travel advice on the 6th of august that you cited. on the 11th of au . ust, august that you cited. on the 11th of august. the — august that you cited. on the 11th of august, the us _ august that you cited. on the 11th of august, the us said _ august that you cited. on the 11th of august, the us said the - august that you cited. on the 11th | of august, the us said the taliban were _ of august, the us said the taliban were likely to seize the whole country. _ were likely to seize the whole country, it wasjust were likely to seize the whole country, it was just a question of how long — country, it was just a question of how long it— country, it was just a question of how long it was going to take. where you are _ how long it was going to take. where you are already on holiday? so, how long it was going to take. where you are already on holiday?— you are already on holiday? so, by the wa , you are already on holiday? so, by the way. that _ you are already on holiday? so, by the way. that is — you are already on holiday? so, by the way, that is part _ you are already on holiday? so, by the way, that is part of _ you are already on holiday? so, by the way, that is part of the - you are already on holiday? so, by the way, that is part of the central| the way, that is part of the central statement —— of the central assessment that i described, that we
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thought they would seize. i mean, there are basically a variety of scenarios between taliban takeover and civil war, but the most likely central assessment was that it would be a taliban consolidation of power. but it will take place in the months following the evacuation, and that kabul would not fall before the end of the year. kabul would not fall before the end of the ear. ., kabul would not fall before the end of the year-— of the year. you didn't answer the second half _ of the year. you didn't answer the second half of _ of the year. you didn't answer the second half of my _ of the year. you didn't answer the second half of my question, - of the year. you didn't answer the | second half of my question, where you already on holiday on 11th of august? — you already on holiday on 11th of august? |— you already on holiday on 11th of au~ust? . ., august? i have given a full statement _ august? i have given a full statement on _ august? i have given a full statement on my - august? i have given a full statement on my holiday. | august? i have given a full| statement on my holiday. i august? i have given a full- statement on my holiday. i have august? i have given a full— statement on my holiday. i have said i would not have gone away with the benefit of hindsight, which is the luxury of... benefit of hindsight, which is the luxury of- - -_ luxury of... when did you go on hohda ? luxury of. .. when did you go on holiday? i— luxury of... when did you go on holiday? i am — luxury of. .. when did you go on holiday? i am not— luxury of... when did you go on holiday? i am not going - luxury of... when did you go on holiday? i am not going to - luxury of... when did you go on | holiday? i am not going to start, chris, holiday? i am not going to start, chris. adding _ holiday? i am not going to start, chris, adding to _ holiday? i am not going to start, chris, adding to frankly - holiday? i am not going to start, chris, adding to frankly the - holiday? i am not going to start, i chris, adding to frankly the fishing expedition beyond the facts i have articulated, the fulsome statement of having answered questions continuously about that. i would just make the broader point... i am
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sor , mr just make the broader point... i am sorry. mr raab. _ just make the broader point... i am sorry, mr raab, the _ just make the broader point... i am sorry, mr raab, the problem here is that of— sorry, mr raab, the problem here is that of course it is perfectly legitimate for ministers to go on holiday. — legitimate for ministers to go on holiday, everybody has that right, and i_ holiday, everybody has that right, and i would argue it is an important part of— and i would argue it is an important part of people being fresh enough to be able _ part of people being fresh enough to be able to— part of people being fresh enough to be able to do theirjob properly. the difficulty for us is that the prime — the difficulty for us is that the prime minister was on holiday, the deputy— prime minister was on holiday, the deputy prime minister, your cells, was on _ deputy prime minister, your cells, was on holiday, and as i understand that the _ was on holiday, and as i understand that the permanent undersecretary was on _ that the permanent undersecretary was on holiday, all three at the same _ was on holiday, all three at the same time, when british nationals were _ same time, when british nationals were at— same time, when british nationals were at risk, many people, thousands of people _ were at risk, many people, thousands of people buy your own estimation, who stood — of people buy your own estimation, who stood by us in a difficult time in afghanistan, were in peril of their— in afghanistan, were in peril of their lives. _ in afghanistan, were in peril of their lives, and there was still not a proper— their lives, and there was still not a proper crisis centre up in place. do you _ a proper crisis centre up in place. do you not— a proper crisis centre up in place. do you not see that it is important for british— do you not see that it is important for british people to understand what _ for british people to understand what you — for british people to understand what you thought it was right to go on holiday? no, what you thought it was right to go on holida ? ., ,., , what you thought it was right to go on holida ? ., , ., �* ., on holiday? no, sorry, i don't agree with that analysis. _ on holiday? no, sorry, i don't agree with that analysis. of _ on holiday? no, sorry, i don't agree with that analysis. of course - on holiday? no, sorry, i don't agree with that analysis. of course i - on holiday? no, sorry, i don't agree with that analysis. of course i have | with that analysis. of course i have been clear with the benefit of hindsight i wouldn't have gone away at all. the charge in relation to officials i think is particularly
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unwarranted, because we always make sure that we have the right cover in place. the permanent secretary did an excellentjob, and quite right, given all of the ir, the sr, the merger, that he should take some leave. in terms of my own situation, just say this. i am travelling today. a modern foreign secretary has to have the ability, given those wider range of issues, that will constantly bubble up possibly to crisis point, to be able to deal at work from abroad. i engaged in all of the cobra meetings, i engaged and directed the emergency response team directly, and i was engaged with international partners. and the truth is, chris, judge us by the results, because...— truth is, chris, judge us by the results, because... well, we will come onto _ results, because... well, we will come onto those _ results, because... well, we will come onto those was _ results, because... well, we will come onto those was at - results, because... well, we will come onto those was at hold - results, because... well, we will come onto those was at hold on, results, because... well, we will. come onto those was at hold on, by
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the 15th of august _ come onto those was at hold on, by the 15th of august and _ come onto those was at hold on, by the 15th of august and the - come onto those was at hold on, by the 15th of august and the end - come onto those was at hold on, by the 15th of august and the end of. the 15th of august and the end of august we delivered over 15,000 people out of the country, which i think is certainly the most challenging evacuation of its kind in living memory. fin challenging evacuation of its kind in living memory.— challenging evacuation of its kind in living memory. on results, can ou tell in living memory. on results, can you tell us _ in living memory. on results, can you tell us how— in living memory. on results, can you tell us how many _ in living memory. on results, can you tell us how many people - in living memory. on results, can you tell us how many people you | you tell us how many people you think. _ you tell us how many people you think, both uk nationals and their families. — think, both uk nationals and their families, and then the people who might— families, and then the people who might qualify because they worked for uk _ might qualify because they worked for uk forces, and then thirdly the extremety— for uk forces, and then thirdly the extremely vulnerable, what is your best estimate of those numbers, and ifully— best estimate of those numbers, and i fully accept you are not going to be able _ i fully accept you are not going to be able to— i fully accept you are not going to be able to give, you know... there are three categories, _ be able to give, you know... there are three categories, you - be able to give, you know... there are three categories, you are - be able to give, you know... there| are three categories, you are right. in terms of the nationals, we got through the overwhelming majority of nationals we can verify eligibility. numbers? i nationals we can verify eligibility. numbers? . , ., numbers? i have given you the number. you _ numbers? i have given you the number. you also _ numbers? i have given you the number. you also said - numbers? i have given you the number. you also said you - numbers? i have given you the . number. you also said you weren't confident of _ number. you also said you weren't confident of the _ number. you also said you weren't confident of the numbers. - number. you also said you weren't confident of the numbers. i - number. you also said you weren't confident of the numbers. i am - number. you also said you weren't| confident of the numbers. i am not confident of the numbers. i am not confident of _ confident of the numbers. i am not confident of the _ confident of the numbers. i am not confident of the numbers - confident of the numbers. i am not i confident of the numbers remaining, but we think they would be in the low hundreds. d0 but we think they would be in the low hundreds.— but we think they would be in the low hundreds. do you mean 110 sort of area, low hundreds. do you mean 110 sort of area. or — low hundreds. do you mean 110 sort of area. or 200. _ low hundreds. do you mean 110 sort of area, or 200, 300, _ low hundreds. do you mean 110 sort of area, or 200, 300, 400? - low hundreds. do you mean 110 sort of area, or 200, 300, 400? they. of area, or 200, 300, 400? they would be in _
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of area, or 200, 300, 400? they would be in the _ of area, or 200, 300, 400? they would be in the low _ ofarea, or200, 300, 400? iie: would be in the low hundreds, ofarea, or200, 300, 400? "iie: would be in the low hundreds, but ofarea, or200, 300, 400? iiez1 would be in the low hundreds, but i am very reticent about giving a firm figure precisely because we don't know. ., , ,., , figure precisely because we don't know. ., , , ,, know. low hundreds sounds like it could be 400 _ know. low hundreds sounds like it could be 400 or _ know. low hundreds sounds like it could be 400 or it _ know. low hundreds sounds like it could be 400 or it could _ know. low hundreds sounds like it could be 400 or it could be - know. low hundreds sounds like it could be 400 or it could be 105, l could be 400 or it could be 105, no. _ could be 400 or it could be 105, 110. 115. — could be 400 or it could be 105, 110. 115. if— could be 400 or it could be 105, 110, 115. . ., could be 400 or it could be 105, 110,115. _, _, ., , 110, 115. if i could give you any more precision, _ 110, 115. if i could give you any more precision, i— 110, 115. if i could give you any more precision, i would. - 110, 115. if i could give you any l more precision, i would. they're somewhere between 100 and 500 uk nationals? let me explain why it is difficult. we got most of if not all of the mono nationals who are documented, who wanted to leave, out, and we are left with, it has to be said, a significant proportion applying who could not establish their nationality. but also a category of more complex cases, particularly with significant wider families where one or other may have documented nationality or can demonstrate it. others and the concentric circles of immediacy of their dependents, and that is why it is difficult, because they could not. the mod and the defence secretary had put an assessment out. then you asked about the third
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category. then you asked about the third cateto . ., , , , category. you accept the number they are trivin category. you accept the number they are giving is — category. you accept the number they are giving is between _ category. you accept the number they are giving is between 150 _ category. you accept the number they are giving is between 150 and - category. you accept the number they are giving is between 150 and 250? i i are giving is between 150 and 250? i defer are giving is between 150 and 250? defer to are giving is between 150 and 250? i defer to the defence secretary on the outcome... defer to the defence secretary on the outcome. . ._ the outcome... this is a ma'or problem. d the outcome... this is a ma'or problem. it i the outcome... this is a ma'or problem, it seems i the outcome... this is a ma'or problem, it seems to i the outcome... this is a ma'or problem, it seems to me, h the outcome... this is a major problem, it seems to me, on. the outcome... this is a major i problem, it seems to me, on the whole _ problem, it seems to me, on the whole way— problem, it seems to me, on the whole way the government has approached this, which as you have had three _ approached this, which as you have had three separate channels. every mp has— had three separate channels. every mp has had individuals coming to their— mp has had individuals coming to their constituency surgeries, ring their constituency surgeries, ring the mark— their constituency surgeries, ring the mark or— their constituency surgeries, ring the mark or e—mailing them, desperate about family members in afghanistan, some of whom are afghan nationals. _ afghanistan, some of whom are afghan nationals, some of whom might qualify— nationals, some of whom might qualify under the special cases of very vulnerable people system, but nobody— very vulnerable people system, but nobody knows why is there no triage system? _ nobody knows why is there no triage system? why have three different departments where you can't even speak— departments where you can't even speak on— departments where you can't even speak on behalf the mod on how many people _ speak on behalf the mod on how many people are _ speak on behalf the mod on how many people are still outstanding? there are two different _ people are still outstanding? there are two different things. _ people are still outstanding? there are two different things. the - people are still outstanding? ii77 are two different things. the arap programme was set up by the mod and the home office and it is right they confirm those things. you are right to refer to it as three different
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categories of case. and one of the reasons... be fcd o was criticised as the emergency centre was precisely because we were seeking to triage the three types of case and the three types of case is because there are three grounds of eligibility to come to this country. one is you are a british national and that requires a certain type of evidence... and that requires a certain type of evidence- - -_ evidence... and for that matter, sor , evidence... and for that matter, sorry. but _ evidence. .. and for that matter, sorry. but for— evidence... and for that matter, sorry, but for that _ evidence... and for that matter, sorry, but for that matter - evidence... and for that matter, sorry, but for that matter a - evidence... and for that matter, sorry, but for that matter a lot i evidence... and for that matter, | sorry, but for that matter a lot of families might have somebody in all three categories, which is why a single system would surely be more effective? ., , , single system would surely be more effective? ., , .. , . ., effective? no, because the criteria, the threshold _ effective? no, because the criteria, the threshold and _ effective? no, because the criteria, the threshold and evidence - effective? no, because the criteria, the threshold and evidence for- effective? no, because the criteria, j the threshold and evidence for what counts as nationality is very different from the arap scheme and the criteria that we work through and is a risk—based set of criteria for those who have worked for us and shown loyalty for us, and the third category is essentially based on international law and is again the nobility, and asylum related set of criteria. those are all three different thresholds. flan
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criteria. those are all three different thresholds. can you not see why that _ different thresholds. can you not see why that might _ different thresholds. can you not see why that might seem - different thresholds. can you not see why that might seem to - different thresholds. can you not see why that might seem to the | see why that might seem to the people — see why that might seem to the people who are experiencing it like the left _ people who are experiencing it like the left hand not knowing what the ti l ht the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing? and departmental and dental eyes is writ lar-e departmental and dental eyes is writ large and _ departmental and dental eyes is writ large and people being treated as numbers. — large and people being treated as numbers, ratherthan humans? | large and people being treated as numbers, rather than humans? i think we would be — numbers, rather than humans? i think we would be remiss _ numbers, rather than humans? i think we would be remiss if _ numbers, rather than humans? i think we would be remiss if we _ numbers, rather than humans? i think we would be remiss if we were - numbers, rather than humans? i think we would be remiss if we were not - we would be remiss if we were not privatising, and this is a form of prioritising, according to the three priorities that matter, british nettles, and of course we will do everything for them, and secondly those that work for us and we need to have a definition for that, and verbally because we have announced under the resettlement scheme 5000 this year, leading up to a total of 20,000 of those will be based on international related criteria for those who have faced persecution. it is precisely because we need to, as well as demonstrate the huge compassion that we as a country are doing, also have criteria to ensure that those we want to come come, rather than just opening the door and saying, actually we are going to
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have an unstructured approach to this, which if i took what you are saying to its logical conclusion i think it would undermine public confidence in the system. i think we are doing everything we can and the proof is in the 17,000 that since april we have secured safe passage back to the uk. and i am very happy to talk through those numbers and the cases and the scholars and the female judges and journalists that we have taken to female judges and journalists that we have ta ken to safety. yes. female judges and journalists that we have taken to safety.— we have taken to safety. yes, we know obviously _ we have taken to safety. yes, we know obviously there _ we have taken to safety. yes, we know obviously there is - we have taken to safety. yes, we know obviously there is a - know obviously there is a significant number of people who have not— significant number of people who have not got out. i think you are accepting — have not got out. i think you are accepting that, yes? in the several thousands. — accepting that, yes? in the several thousands. 35mg accepting that, yes? in the several thousands. �* , . accepting that, yes? in the several thousands-— thousands. any number that we haven't got _ thousands. any number that we haven't got out, _ thousands. any number that we haven't got out, because - thousands. any number that we haven't got out, because of - thousands. any number that we haven't got out, because of the | haven't got out, because of the evacuation and the situation is too many. evacuation and the situation is too man . . evacuation and the situation is too man . , ,., evacuation and the situation is too man . , , ., many. yes, so i understand the point ou are many. yes, so i understand the point you are making. _ many. yes, so i understand the point you are making, but— many. yes, so i understand the point you are making, but basically - many. yes, so i understand the point you are making, but basically a - you are making, but basically a significant number, have you put a number— significant number, have you put a number on — significant number, have you put a number on that, of how many people you think— number on that, of how many people you think we — number on that, of how many people you think we have left behind? you are askin: you think we have left behind? you are asking the _ you think we have left behind? ym. are asking the same question a different way and i have just said i
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can't give you a definitive... and by the way, the other thing is... it isjust that the by the way, the other thing is... it is just that the prime by the way, the other thing is... it isjust that the prime ministers said that — isjust that the prime ministers said that the overwhelming majority of the _ said that the overwhelming majority of the people who... stood by us, in other— of the people who... stood by us, in other words— of the people who... stood by us, in other words people who worked for us, other words people who worked for us. the _ other words people who worked for us, the overwhelming majority of them _ us, the overwhelming majority of them are — us, the overwhelming majority of them are out. but if you are not confident— them are out. but if you are not confident of the numbers, how can the prime — confident of the numbers, how can the prime minister possibly know whether— the prime minister possibly know whether the overwhelming majority are out _ whether the overwhelming majority are out or _ whether the overwhelming majority are out or not? i whether the overwhelming ma'ority are out or moi are out or not? i am not confident with precision _ are out or not? i am not confident with precision to _ are out or not? i am not confident with precision to be _ are out or not? i am not confident with precision to be able - are out or not? i am not confident with precision to be able to - are out or not? i am not confident with precision to be able to give i with precision to be able to give you a set number, but i am confident that the prime minister is right that the prime minister is right that we have got the overwhelming majority out. our focus that we have got the overwhelming majority out. ourfocus now that we have got the overwhelming majority out. our focus now is on how, given the facts on the ground, how, given the facts on the ground, how we get to as many people to safety in a structured a way and in a way that doesn't put them at risk... . .. a way that doesn't put them at risk... . ~ ., ., risk... ok, and i think one of the reason is — risk... ok, and i think one of the reason is that _ risk... ok, and i think one of the reason is that lots _ risk... ok, and i think one of the reason is that lots of _ risk... ok, and i think one of the reason is that lots of mps - risk... ok, and i think one of the reason is that lots of mps are - reason is that lots of mps are troubled _ reason is that lots of mps are troubled by this is because we had nigel— troubled by this is because we had nigel adams before us last year, when _ nigel adams before us last year, when we — nigel adams before us last year, when we had to evacuate an awful lot of people _ when we had to evacuate an awful lot of people because of covid from all sorts _ of people because of covid from all sorts of— of people because of covid from all sorts of places around the world and itjust _ sorts of places around the world and it just feels — sorts of places around the world and itjust feels as sorts of places around the world and it just feels as if the foreign office — it just feels as if the foreign office hasn't learnt anything from
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that. _ office hasn't learnt anything from that. i_ office hasn't learnt anything from that. ., ., ~' office hasn't learnt anything from that. , , . that. i look very carefully and i take this committee _ that. i look very carefully and i take this committee very - that. i look very carefully and i - take this committee very seriously and yourjuly 2020 report from the repatriation effort on covid we took very seriously. by the way, the console did aid an incrediblejob of getting people back home from the crisis and we learnt night and day, and we learnt a lot of things on scalability, like the call centre. your committee, chris, made a number of points about the ability to scale up of points about the ability to scale up quickly, for example. as a result we established a contingency planning team within the crisis management department, we established a crisis response to the afghanistan situation on the 11th of august. it doubled in size and scale, civilian staff, from 70 on day one to ia6 on day three, again to 358 on day six, 510 on day nine and it hit a peak of 581 on day 11.
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you also talked about... that is all in the _ you also talked about... that is all in the uk. — you also talked about... that is all in the uk, yes? say again? the staff are all— in the uk, yes? say again? the staff are all in_ in the uk, yes? say again? the staff are all inthe— in the uk, yes? say again? the staff are all in the uk?— are all in the uk? yes, and you also talked about — are all in the uk? yes, and you also talked about shifting _ are all in the uk? yes, and you also talked about shifting the _ talked about shifting the communication pattern, as you felt it wasn't active enough, particularly on social media, so as a result of that we put in place structures to provide more proactive advice, including a core handling provider, for immediate support for a contact centre, a team of a5 consulate staff around the sco network deployed to provide... for our contact centre. the other thing i thought was important to you said there was an overreliance on commercial flights. there was an overreliance on commercialflights. by the there was an overreliance on commercial flights. by the way, there was an overreliance on commercialflights. by the way, i personally think you are wrong about that in relation to covid. i think it was right to try to get the huge number we did back on commercial flights to three at the space on the charters, but in any event even if i disagreed, i looked at your recommendations very carefully. as a
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result we now have a contract with ctm and they are using it for our charter flights, ctm and they are using it for our charterflights, or did use it for our charter flights, charterflights, or did use it for our charterflights, and charterflights, or did use it for our charter flights, and that allowed us to get planes departing quickly, departing within two days of beginning operations. so feel free to criticise, but first of all we did learn the lessons you gave us and we did take the recommendations you get this from this committee very seriously. i you get this from this committee very seriously-— you get this from this committee very seriously. i have 'ust got one more question. _ very seriously. i have just got one more question, which _ very seriously. i have just got one more question, which is... - more question, which is... departments are... ..i more question, which is... departments are... itexted more question, which is... departments are... i texted you departments are... itexted you with— departments are... i texted you with details _ departments are... i texted you with details of another case today, a british— with details of another case today, a british national national in afghanistan and i am not going to go into the _ afghanistan and i am not going to go into the individual issues, but i know— into the individual issues, but i know he — into the individual issues, but i know he spoke so passionately on television — know he spoke so passionately on television about what a desperate situation — television about what a desperate situation he is in and every mp will have _ situation he is in and every mp will have had _ situation he is in and every mp will have had cases like this. we have all been _ have had cases like this. we have all been running around trying to find different means of getting people — find different means of getting people out, including lots of people on this— people out, including lots of people on this committee. and we are grateful— on this committee. and we are grateful to you personally and to everybody in the foreign office who has been _ everybody in the foreign office who has been involved in all of this. but what — has been involved in all of this. but what we are now really anxious about _ but what we are now really anxious about is _ but what we are now really anxious about is the — but what we are now really anxious
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about is the people who are left and the prime _ about is the people who are left and the prime minister said he was going to move _ the prime minister said he was going to move heaven and earth to get them out. what— to move heaven and earth to get them out. what advice would you be giving to people _ out. what advice would you be giving to people now, for instance members of the _ to people now, for instance members of the community who are effectively facing _ of the community who are effectively facing a _ of the community who are effectively facing a genocide, self declared by the taliban in afghanistan, to individuals who work for us who are still stuck— individuals who work for us who are still stuck there, british nationals who are _ still stuck there, british nationals who are still stuck there? what is the advice. — who are still stuck there? what is the advice, go to the border? canl the advice, go to the border? can i walk ou the advice, go to the border? can i walk you through _ the advice, go to the border? can i walk you through where _ the advice, go to the border? can i walk you through where we - the advice, go to the border? cag�*i i walk you through where we are with the third country plan because i think it is more than just give x or y advice, and can i also say in terms of the special cases, we did get out 58 scholars and their dependents, 287journalist, 65 women's rights activists, 11 members of government, a2 law enforcement officials, 37 extremely vulnerable individuals, ninejudges and others besides. in terms of the third country planning, there are a number
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of stages. first, we need to be able to secure safe passage out of afghanistan. at least until that point at which kabul airport is up and running, at which case things will change materially. we have sought and secured direct assurances that we can do that for our nationals and indeed the people that worked for us. and you will notice we lead the way with france, the us to secure a un security council resolution requiring that. of course, that bowl of the international community's pressure on the taliban to give that to us. secondly, we will provide the countries most likely to be the port of call or destination for those leaving. there is an arrangement between myself and lord... and we spoke to all of those ministers to be clear that they would be in the right circumstances to be allowed through. third, we focus on the documents required to allow people to cross that border into a third
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country, whether it is by the means of our ambassador or high commissioner the border authorities, this individual we will take. then we have, and i havejust sent the arrival in the next 36 hours, a rapid deployment team of 15 people who will service those areas where we expect people will head for. that will include pakistan, uzbekistan, surgical is and others. —— other countries. this, we have a loosely got to look very carefully at the security measures and we are looking at that in relation to the home office in real time, we have spoken last night and this morning as well. i am going to the resume tonight to test the excessive ability of these arrangements and of course as you mentioned people are going to
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uzbekistan, but we have got to keep those borders open. part of that is making arrangements people can feel confident in, perhaps supported as well. finally, as i said on monday, the g7, turkey, qatar and the nato secretary general had a meeting, which of course ijoined, about the importance of keeping airport is open for third countries and this issue of safe passage. so both in terms of the granular arrangements we are making but also the international concerted action that is in place, in terms of answering your question of what we will get to your question of what we will get to you through travel advice and otherwise is signposting so that you can give that advice and it will be directly individuals from all those different countries, including the one you mentioned. just different countries, including the one you mentioned.— one you mentioned. just very briefl , one you mentioned. just very briefly. i _ one you mentioned. just very briefly, i know _ one you mentioned. just very briefly, i know you _ one you mentioned. just very briefly, i know you are - one you mentioned. just very briefly, i know you are going| one you mentioned. just very l briefly, i know you are going to one you mentioned. just very - briefly, i know you are going to to the region. — briefly, i know you are going to to the region. clearly this isn't the time _ the region. clearly this isn't the time to— the region. clearly this isn't the time to be _ the region. clearly this isn't the time to be making best friends, it would _ time to be making best friends, it would be — time to be making best friends, it would be good to have them earlier. is would be good to have them earlier. is this _ would be good to have them earlier. is this your— would be good to have them earlier. is this your first trip to pakistan? as foreign— is this your first trip to pakistan? as foreign secretary? | is this your first trip to pakistan? as foreign secretary?— is this your first trip to pakistan? as foreign secretary? i have been to pakistan before, _ as foreign secretary? i have been to pakistan before, but _ as foreign secretary? i have been to pakistan before, but not _ as foreign secretary? i have been to pakistan before, but not as - as foreign secretary? i have been to pakistan before, but not as foreign i pakistan before, but not as foreign
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secretary, no. the truth is i was hoping to go, but covid has inhibited travel for quite a while, as you will understand.— as you will understand. indeed. fora ive as you will understand. indeed. forgive me. — as you will understand. indeed. forgive me, unless— as you will understand. indeed. forgive me, unless you - as you will understand. indeed. forgive me, unless you want i as you will understand. indeed. forgive me, unless you want to j as you will understand. indeed. - forgive me, unless you want to come in very— forgive me, unless you want to come in very briefly?— in very briefly? sorry, as i mentioned, _ in very briefly? sorry, as i mentioned, ahmed - in very briefly? sorry, as i mentioned, ahmed was i in very briefly? sorry, as i - mentioned, ahmed was there in in very briefly? sorry, as i _ mentioned, ahmed was there in june, mentioned, ahmed was there injune, so they saw foreign minister qureshi. ., ., qureshi. you mentioned there were 500 foreign — qureshi. you mentioned there were 500 foreign office _ qureshi. you mentioned there were 500 foreign office staff _ qureshi. you mentioned there were 500 foreign office staff in - qureshi. you mentioned there were 500 foreign office staff in the - qureshi. you mentioned there were 500 foreign office staff in the uk. i 500 foreign office staff in the uk. how many were on the ground? because theissue how many were on the ground? because the issue was not planes, it was processing. the baron hotel was an extremely vulnerable point before the attack and i had family members that are outside 36 hours who only got into baron hotel because friends helped me get the military outside that compound to drag the family and get that go on a saline drip. why wasn't processing quicker? because that was the hold—up. wasn't processing quicker? because that was the hold-up.— that was the hold-up. sorry, i want to answer your _ that was the hold-up. sorry, i want to answer your question _ that was the hold-up. sorry, i want to answer your question really - to answer your question really quickly. i am to answer your question really quickly. iam not to answer your question really quickly. i am not sure... the time ofthe quickly. i am not sure... the time of the processing, _ quickly. i am not sure... the time of the processing, in _ quickly. i am not sure... the time of the processing, in the - quickly. i am not sure... the time of the processing, in the last - quickly. i am not sure... the time of the processing, in the last two | of the processing, in the last two weeks where we spent desperately trying to get people out, how many
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foreign office staff were on the ground trying to process people? brute ground trying to process people? we peaked at 20, and of course just to be clear we absolutely need the front facing staff, but the decision making was via bsc do persist response team because you could get decision makers at senior level there and you could integrate them in turns of the cto people, the border force people and also the military planners. i am very happy to take you through the scalability of what we did, given the taliban advance on kabul, and i am happy to answer questions on what we did in relation to the explosion, but we peaked at 20 fcdo, plus there were 13 border staff. the principal issue at all material times, i would say, between the ath—15th at the end of august has been the issue of stability and security around the
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airport so we could bolster that capacity. i do think some of the nonsense i have read in the papers, if i may say, the suggestions that we should have been putting people in when the airport was not secure, when the powers and the american forces had not secured that airport, when we had just had an isis—k attack literally a stone's throw from the baron's hotel processing centre, i do find rather irresponsible. but we had an incredibly courageous hunch of mod, home office and fcdo civilian staff and ifeel home office and fcdo civilian staff and i feel i home office and fcdo civilian staff and ifeel i hope home office and fcdo civilian staff and i feel i hope you home office and fcdo civilian staff and ifeel i hope you don't mind saying quite protective about some of the nonsense that has been said. they put themselves under conditions of incredible pressure and a measure of incredible pressure and a measure of risk to themselves that many of their critics, i'm afraid, have not. i think i can speakfor the their critics, i'm afraid, have not. i think i can speak for the whole committee and say that the gratitude we have _ committee and say that the gratitude we have for the civilians and soldiers _ we have for the civilians and soldiers who served our country with enormous _ soldiers who served our country with enormous dignity and courage in
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afghanistan is not something this committee would run away from. on the contrary. — committee would run away from. on the contrary, we are hugely proud of them _ the contrary, we are hugely proud of them and _ the contrary, we are hugely proud of them and extreme grateful for their services. _ them and extreme grateful for their services. ., ,., ., ,, them and extreme grateful for their services. ., ., ,, ., services. there also talk about the civilian staff... _ services. there also talk about the civilian staff... i— services. there also talk about the civilian staff... i staff _ services. there also talk about the civilian staff... i staff as _ services. there also talk about the civilian staff... i staff as well. - civilian staff... i staff as well. you are trained _ civilian staff... i staff as well. you are trained specifically i civilian staff... i staff as well. you are trained specifically toj civilian staff... i staff as well. i you are trained specifically to do these situations, to the most vulnerable club in crisis. my question is we didn't send people out on the 17th of august, is that correct? . .. out on the 17th of august, is that correct? ., ,, ., correct? let me walk through the decision-making _ correct? let me walk through the decision-making on _ correct? let me walk through the decision-making on that. - correct? let me walk through the decision-making on that. the i decision—making on that. the decision—making on that. the decision to withdraw fcdo staff on the 13th of august, and of course the 13th of august, and of course the ambassador remained... mas the ambassador remained... was instructed to _ the ambassador remained... —" instructed to remain or did he choose to remain? ida. instructed to remain or did he choose to remain?— instructed to remain or did he choose to remain? no, there was no ruestion choose to remain? no, there was no question of— choose to remain? no, there was no question of telling _ choose to remain? no, there was no question of telling him _ choose to remain? no, there was no question of telling him to _ choose to remain? no, there was no question of telling him to do - question of telling him to do something he was not able to do and i of course talked it through with a professional way. i of course talked it through with a professionalway. no i of course talked it through with a professional way. no one has been more courageous, with the exception of the forces on the ground, than laurie bristow, in terms of the civilian presence. by the way, the decision was based on a military
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assessment of risk. let's be absolutely clear about this. the decision to take some of our... the lion's share, frankly, civilian element of response team on the ground to do was based on a military assessment of risk and indeed civilian personnel from the mod left on the same flight. the ambassador remained, the fcdo staff were only taken to dubai, so they could get back, as they did on the 17th of august. when we went back in, just to be clear and i am not pointing fingers, but the border force staff didn't arrive until later that week, but that is because we were all operating to the same assessment of military risk on the ground. as you will know, tom, and i think it is right when there is risk to life or limb, to defer to that. but right when there is risk to life or limb, to defer to that.— limb, to defer to that. but if the are tt team _ limb, to defer to that. but if the are tt team did _ limb, to defer to that. but if the are tt team did not _ limb, to defer to that. but if the are tt team did not go - limb, to defer to that. but if the are tt team did not go until i limb, to defer to that. but if the are tt team did not go until the | are tt team did not go until the 17th of august why was it safe for them to go before that point? because you constantly had that team
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ready to deploy on short notice. 50 we got that team back in on the 17th, so there was a four—day period and the truth is that the paras and the us forces had not arrived in full and secured that airport until then. we got them back in on the ground on the 17th and they were bolstered again to a peak of 20, plus 13 border force staff. in addition we had this further idt of seven in dubai and, as we have already gone through, 200 staff at the fcdo crisis centre working 20 a7 to coordinate the response. if the question is where they somehow reticent? ., , ., , ., reticent? no, there is no question of whether— reticent? no, there is no question of whether they _ reticent? no, there is no question of whether they were _ reticent? no, there is no question of whether they were reticent i reticent? no, there is no question of whether they were reticent at i of whether they were reticent at all. . of whether they were reticent at all. , ., ., , all. then there is no. .. the only logistical— all. then there is no... the only logistical issue. _ all. then there is no... the only logistical issue. not _ all. then there is no... the only logistical issue. not the - all. then there is no... the only logistical issue. not the only, i all. then there is no... the only i logistical issue. not the only, the principal issue was the safety of that airport for them to be able to do theirjob and, indeed, as you know, in a processing centre you are asking people to come forward and in
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processing centres, as you will have seen fully fitted around the terrorist attack, it was outside the airport, so on top of securing the airport, so on top of securing the airport we also needed to know that the processing centre at baron's court was safe. i cannot put people at harms way, at risk of losing their life... we do it with soldiers and their heroism is rightly lauded, but with civilian staff we have to take the assessment of military risk on the ground and that is what quite professionally we did. that on the ground and that is what quite professionally we did.— professionally we did. that is the crux of the _ professionally we did. that is the crux of the question. _ professionally we did. that is the crux of the question. we - professionally we did. that is the crux of the question. we all- professionally we did. that is the | crux of the question. we all agree it was vulnerable. the whole point was therefore getting afghans and british nationals into baron hotel at speed, which is what was not happening and that is the issue and where the risk was. but happening and that is the issue and where the risk was.— where the risk was. but it wasn't safe, it wasn't _ where the risk was. but it wasn't safe, it wasn't secure. _ where the risk was. but it wasn't safe, it wasn't secure. i - where the risk was. but it wasn't safe, it wasn't secure. i am i where the risk was. but it wasn'tl safe, it wasn't secure. i am going to move on- _ safe, it wasn't secure. i am going to move on- in — safe, it wasn't secure. i am going to move on. in process— safe, it wasn't secure. i am going to move on. in process and i safe, it wasn't secure. i am going i to move on. in process and safety, there were — to move on. in process and safety, there were 18 _ to move on. in process and safety, there were 18 months _ to move on. in process and safety, there were 18 months to _ to move on. in process and safety, there were 18 months to prepare i to move on. in process and safety, i there were 18 months to prepare for evacuation _ there were 18 months to prepare for evacuation and _ there were 18 months to prepare for evacuation and you _ there were 18 months to prepare for evacuation and you have _ there were 18 months to prepare for evacuation and you have just - there were 18 months to prepare for evacuation and you have just said i evacuation and you have just said today— evacuation and you have just said today that — evacuation and you have just said today that any _ evacuation and you have just said today that any last _ evacuation and you have just said today that any last six _ evacuation and you have just said today that any last six months i evacuation and you have just said i today that any last six months you had 40 _ today that any last six months you had 40 meetings _ today that any last six months you had 40 meetings about _ today that any last six months you j had 40 meetings about evacuation today that any last six months you i had 40 meetings about evacuation in a high-risk— had 40 meetings about evacuation in a high—risk situation, _ had 40 meetings about evacuation in a high—risk situation, and _ had 40 meetings about evacuation in a high—risk situation, and yet- had 40 meetings about evacuation in a high—risk situation, and yet we i a high—risk situation, and yet we ended _ a high—risk situation, and yet we ended up— a high—risk situation, and yet we ended up in— a high—risk situation, and yet we ended up in a _ a high—risk situation, and yet we ended up in a situation- a high—risk situation, and yet we ended up in a situation where i a high—risk situation, and yet we| ended up in a situation where we a high—risk situation, and yet we i ended up in a situation where we had three _ ended up in a situation where we had three different _ ended up in a situation where we had three different government - three different government departments _ three different government departments running - three different government departments running three| three different government -
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departments running three different hetplines— departments running three different hetptines that — departments running three different helplines that were _ departments running three different helplines that were not _ departments running three different helplines that were not being - helplines that were not being answered _ helplines that were not being answered and _ helplines that were not being answered and your— helplines that were not being i answered and your department helplines that were not being - answered and your department had an afghan— answered and your department had an afghan special— answered and your department had an afghan special cases _ answered and your department had an afghan special cases e—mail_ answered and your department had an afghan special cases e—mail address i afghan special cases e—mail address that wasnt— afghan special cases e—mail address that wasn't even _ afghan special cases e—mail address that wasn't even being _ afghan special cases e—mail address that wasn't even being opened - afghan special cases e—mail address that wasn't even being opened in i that wasn't even being opened in life and _ that wasn't even being opened in life and death _ that wasn't even being opened in life and death cases. _ that wasn't even being opened in life and death cases. who - that wasn't even being opened in life and death cases. who is- life and death cases. who is responsible _ life and death cases. who is responsible for— life and death cases. who is responsible for that - life and death cases. who is responsible for that chaos i life and death cases. who isl responsible for that chaos on life and death cases. who is- responsible for that chaos on the ground? — responsible for that chaos on the round? ~ ., �* , ., ground? well, i don't accept that categorisation. _ ground? well, i don't accept that categorisation. i— ground? well, i don't accept that categorisation. i am _ ground? well, i don't accept that categorisation. i am happy- ground? well, i don't accept that categorisation. i am happy to i ground? well, i don't accept that categorisation. i am happy to go | categorisation. i am happy to go over any of those issues in terms of the or anything else.— the or anything else. please do. i can address _ the or anything else. please do. i can address the _ the or anything else. please do. i can address the e-mail_ the or anything else. please do. i can address the e-mail issue, i the or anything else. please do. i | can address the e-mail issue, but can address the e—mail issue, but first of— can address the e—mail issue, but first of all. — can address the e—mail issue, but first of all, the _ can address the e—mail issue, but first of all, the reality _ can address the e—mail issue, but first of all, the reality is _ can address the e-mail issue, but first of all, the reali_ first of all, the reality is that we secured over _ first of all, the reality is that we secured over 50,000 _ first of all, the reality is that we secured over 50,000 people i first of all, the reality is that we i secured over 50,000 people out... 0k, secured over 50,000 people out... ok, you said that, but there were 9000 _ ok, you said that, but there were 9000 estimate _ ok, you said that, but there were 9000 estimate left _ ok, you said that, but there were 9000 estimate left behind. - ok, you said that, but there were 9000 estimate left behind. whoi ok, you said that, but there were i 9000 estimate left behind. who was responsible _ 9000 estimate left behind. who was responsible for— 9000 estimate left behind. who was responsible for taking _ 9000 estimate left behind. who was responsible for taking the _ 9000 estimate left behind. who was responsible for taking the helplines i responsible for taking the helplines and for— responsible for taking the helplines and for the — responsible for taking the helplines and for the e—mails _ responsible for taking the helplines and for the e—mails in _ responsible for taking the helplines and for the e—mails in your- and for the e—mails in your department— and for the e—mails in your department not— and for the e—mails in your department not even- and for the e—mails in your| department not even being and for the e—mails in your- department not even being open? and for the e—mails in your— department not even being open? the issue, as department not even being open? issue, as you had a search for department not even being open? the issue, as you had a search for the door, is that you have a surge of e—mails, including late e—mails and requests like that. but let me just explain the situation for you, purely for transparency. we have got the three types of cases. mulder dell all in together, frankly... stand dell all in together, frankly... and
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that didn't use... _ dell all in together, frankly... and that didn't use... you're not answering _ that didn't use... you're not answering the _ that didn't use... you're not answering the question, i that didn't use... you're not i answering the question, you're that didn't use... you're not - answering the question, you're going back to _ answering the question, you're going back to another — answering the question, you're going back to another question. _ answering the question, you're going back to another question. but - answering the question, you're going back to another question. but other. back to another question. but other countries _ back to another question. but other countries didn't— back to another question. but other countries didn't use _ back to another question. but other countries didn't use one _ back to another question. but other countries didn't use one process. i countries didn't use one process. france. _ countries didn't use one process. france. south _ countries didn't use one process. france, south korea, _ countries didn't use one process. france, south korea, they- countries didn't use one process. france, south korea, they got. countries didn't use one process. i france, south korea, they got people out. but _ france, south korea, they got people out. but other— france, south korea, they got people out. but other countries _ france, south korea, they got people out. but other countries that - france, south korea, they got people out. but other countries that were i out. but other countries that were using _ out. but other countries that were using these — out. but other countries that were using these sorts _ out. but other countries that were using these sorts of _ out. but other countries that were using these sorts of processes - out. but other countries that were using these sorts of processes for| using these sorts of processes for an evacuation _ using these sorts of processes for an evacuation. . .— using these sorts of processes for an evacuation... that is wrong. all countries were _ an evacuation... that is wrong. all countries were focused _ an evacuation... that is wrong. all countries were focused in - an evacuation... that is wrong. all countries were focused in one - an evacuation... that is wrong. all countries were focused in one way | an evacuation... that is wrong. all. countries were focused in one way or another on evacuating based on nationality, people that worked for them and other vulnerable cases, particularly those with an affinity towards them. we all face to that challenge and i don't believe in any of the other countries with the types of cases, particularly family cases, but others fared better and those comparisons... unfortunately the did, those comparisons... unfortunately they did. and _ those comparisons... unfortunately they did. and you — those comparisons... unfortunately they did, and you can't _ those comparisons... unfortunately they did, and you can't even - those comparisons... unfortunately they did, and you can't even tell - those comparisons... unfortunately they did, and you can't even tell us| they did, and you can't even tell us today— they did, and you can't even tell us today how— they did, and you can't even tell us today how many— they did, and you can't even tell us today how many people _ they did, and you can't even tell us today how many people are - they did, and you can't even tell us today how many people are left - today how many people are left behind, — today how many people are left behind, abandoned _ today how many people are left behind, abandoned by- today how many people are left behind, abandoned by the - today how many people are left behind, abandoned by the uk. behind, abandoned by the uk government_ behind, abandoned by the uk government after— behind, abandoned by the uk government after 20 - behind, abandoned by the uk government after 20 years i behind, abandoned by the uk government after 20 years of service — government after 20 years of service can_ government after 20 years of service. can you _ government after 20 years of service. can you tell- government after 20 years of service. can you tell us - government after 20 years of service. can you tell us todayi service. can you tell us today whether_ service. can you tell us today whether the _ service. can you tell us today whether the afghan - service. can you tell us today whether the afghan guards . service. can you tell us today i whether the afghan guards from service. can you tell us today - whether the afghan guards from the british— whether the afghan guards from the british embassy— whether the afghan guards from the british embassy in _ whether the afghan guards from the british embassy in kabul— whether the afghan guards from the british embassy in kabul have - whether the afghan guards from the british embassy in kabul have beeni british embassy in kabul have been evacuated — british embassy in kabul have been evacuated or— british embassy in kabul have been evacuated or not? _ british embassy in kabul have been evacuated or not? they— british embassy in kabul have been evacuated or not? they were - british embassy in kabul have been evacuated or not? they were held i british embassy in kabul have been. evacuated or not? they were held up due to _ evacuated or not? they were held up due to paperwork _ evacuated or not? they were held up due to paperwork. are _ evacuated or not? they were held up due to paperwork. are they- evacuated or not? they were held up due to paperwork. are they here? i evacuated or not? they were held upi due to paperwork. are they here? we due to paperwork. are they here? c wanted due to paperwork. are they here? wanted to get some of those due to paperwork. are they here?“
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wanted to get some of those embassy guards through, but the buses arranged to collect them to take two to the airport were not given permission to enter and that is, i'm afraid, a reflection of the conditions on the ground. we will, of course, which comes back to the third country arrangements we... they were held up due to paperwork, sow _ they were held up due to paperwork, sow that _ they were held up due to paperwork, sow that stick— they were held up due to paperwork, so... that stick the _ they were held up due to paperwork, so... that stick the same _ they were held up due to paperwork, so... that stick the same issue - so... that stick the same issue because — so... that stick the same issue because you _ so... that stick the same issue because you can't _ so... that stick the same issue because you can't say - so... that stick the same issue because you can't say whether| so... that stick the same issue - because you can't say whether they are here _ because you can't say whether they are here or— because you can't say whether they are here or not. _ because you can't say whether they are here or not, it _ because you can't say whether they are here or not, it sounds - because you can't say whether they are here or not, it sounds like, - because you can't say whether they are here or not, it sounds like, so i are here or not, it sounds like, so you're _ are here or not, it sounds like, so you're not— are here or not, it sounds like, so you're not answering _ are here or not, it sounds like, so you're not answering the - are here or not, it sounds like, so . you're not answering the questions, so i will_ you're not answering the questions, so i will move — you're not answering the questions, so i will move orr~ _ you're not answering the questions, so i will move on. the _ you're not answering the questions, so i will move on. the descent- so i will move on. the descent secretary, _ so i will move on. the descent secretary, which _ so i will move on. the descent secretary, which i _ so i will move on. the descent secretary, which i think- so i will move on. the descent secretary, which i think has. so i will move on. the descent. secretary, which i think has been credited — secretary, which i think has been credited hy— secretary, which i think has been credited by most... _ secretary, which i think has been credited by most... kneel... - secretary, which i think has been credited by most... kneel... you secretary, which i think has been- credited by most... kneel... you are not answering — credited by most... kneel... you are not answering the _ credited by most... kneel... you are not answering the question, - credited by most... kneel... you are not answering the question, so - credited by most... kneel... you are not answering the question, so let's| not answering the question, so let's move _ not answering the question, so let's move orr~ _ not answering the question, so let's move on the — not answering the question, so let's move on. the defence _ not answering the question, so let's move on. the defence secretary- not answering the question, so let'sl move on. the defence secretary said it was _ move on. the defence secretary said it was not _ move on. the defence secretary said it was not good — move on. the defence secretary said it was not good enough _ move on. the defence secretary said it was not good enough to _ move on. the defence secretary said it was not good enough to leave - it was not good enough to leave british— it was not good enough to leave british nationals _ it was not good enough to leave british nationals in _ it was not good enough to leave british nationals in british- british nationals in british embassies. _ british nationals in british embassies, which- british nationals in british embassies, which was - british nationals in british- embassies, which was reported by british nationals in british— embassies, which was reported by the thames _ embassies, which was reported by the thames do _ embassies, which was reported by the thames do you — embassies, which was reported by the thames. do you agree _ embassies, which was reported by the thames. do you agree with _ embassies, which was reported by the thames. do you agree with that - thames. do you agree with that assessment— thames. do you agree with that assessment and _ thames. do you agree with that assessment and who _ thames. do you agree with that assessment and who is - thames. do you agree with that assessment and who is taking . assessment and who is taking responsibility— assessment and who is taking responsibility for— assessment and who is taking responsibility for the - assessment and who is taking responsibility for the safety i assessment and who is taking i responsibility for the safety and security — responsibility for the safety and security of _ responsibility for the safety and security of those _ responsibility for the safety and security of those individuals? . responsibility for the safety and i security of those individuals? let me talk security of those individuals? me talk you through the documentation. this is the first thing to say in relation to the situation is of course that it is regrettable, it reflects, i think it
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is there to say, the pressure on the ground. we had a five day scheduled approach foreclosure of the embassy and it got brought forward because of the situation on the ground. i had nonetheless asked for a full review as to what happened to make sure we learn lessons, butjust to be clear we... it was the newspaper the times that broke the story of revealed story. they shared this story with us, we moved rapidly to evacuate the three families from kabul within 2a hours and all of those whose names the times newspaper passed to us, having worked for us, are now in the uk. that is good, but they should never have been— that is good, but they should never have been at— that is good, but they should never have been at risk. _ that is good, but they should never have been at risk. as _ that is good, but they should never have been at risk. as a _ that is good, but they should never have been at risk. as a former- that is good, but they should neveri have been at risk. as a former chief of staff, _ have been at risk. as a former chief of staff, the — have been at risk. as a former chief of staff, the general— have been at risk. as a former chief of staff, the general has _ have been at risk. as a former chief of staff, the general has said - have been at risk. as a former chief of staff, the general has said you i of staff, the general has said you were _ of staff, the general has said you were asleep— of staff, the general has said you were asleep at _ of staff, the general has said you were asleep at the _ of staff, the general has said you were asleep at the helm. - of staff, the general has said you were asleep at the helm. can - of staff, the general has said you were asleep at the helm. can i. of staff, the general has said you l were asleep at the helm. can ijust ask do— were asleep at the helm. can ijust ask do you — were asleep at the helm. can ijust ask do you owe _ were asleep at the helm. can ijust ask do you owe those _ were asleep at the helm. can ijust ask do you owe those afghan - ask do you owe those afghan nationals— ask do you owe those afghan nationals and _ ask do you owe those afghan nationals and british -
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ask do you owe those afghan nationals and british troops i ask do you owe those afghan i nationals and british troops who were _ nationals and british troops who were flown— nationals and british troops who were flown into _ nationals and british troops who were flown into more _ nationals and british troops whoi were flown into more dangerous situation — were flown into more dangerous situation and _ were flown into more dangerous situation and apology— were flown into more dangerous situation and apology for- were flown into more dangerous situation and apology for the - situation and apology for the situation _ situation and apology for the situation they— situation and apology for the situation they have - situation and apology for the situation they have faced? . situation and apology for the situation they have faced? ii situation and apology for the situation they have faced? i think we owe them _ situation they have faced? i think we owe them every _ situation they have faced? i think we owe them every effort - situation they have faced? i think we owe them every effort to - situation they have faced? i think we owe them every effort to get l we owe them every effort to get those out that we did, the 17,000 since april, and now to focus on the new reality within afghanistan with the arrangements that we are working on at speed, which is why i'm going to leave shortly, with our international partners, which is what i have been doing, to get those that remain out swiftly as possible. no apology has been heard, so do the prime _ no apology has been heard, so do the prime minister— no apology has been heard, so do the prime ministerand _ no apology has been heard, so do the prime minister and apology? - no apology has been heard, so do the prime minister and apology? because| prime minister and apology? because i believe _ prime minister and apology? because i believe you — prime minister and apology? because i believe you promised _ prime minister and apology? because i believe you promised that _ prime minister and apology? because i believe you promised that the - i believe you promised that the portrait— i believe you promised that the portrait of— i believe you promised that the portrait of her— i believe you promised that the portrait of her majesty- i believe you promised that the portrait of her majesty would . i believe you promised that the i portrait of her majesty would not i believe you promised that the - portrait of her majesty would not be left in _ portrait of her majesty would not be left in the _ portrait of her majesty would not be left in the british _ portrait of her majesty would not be left in the british embassy, - portrait of her majesty would not be left in the british embassy, so - portrait of her majesty would not be left in the british embassy, so what| left in the british embassy, so what went so— left in the british embassy, so what went so badly— left in the british embassy, so what went so badly wrong? _ left in the british embassy, so what went so badly wrong? and - left in the british embassy, so what went so badly wrong? and is- left in the british embassy, so what went so badly wrong? and is our. went so badly wrong? and is our queen— went so badly wrong? and is our queen and — went so badly wrong? and is our queen and our— went so badly wrong? and is our queen and our country— went so badly wrong? and is our queen and our country less - went so badly wrong? and is our queen and our country less safe| went so badly wrong? and is our. queen and our country less safe as went so badly wrong? and is our- queen and our country less safe as a result— queen and our country less safe as a result of— queen and our country less safe as a result of the — queen and our country less safe as a result of the taliban _ queen and our country less safe as a result of the taliban takeover? - queen and our country less safe as a result of the taliban takeover? i - result of the taliban takeover? i was result of the taliban takeover? was the first, i have to say,... result of the taliban takeover?“ was the first, i have to say,... my understanding is that the portrait of the queen was destroyed from the embassy. are you saying that it was
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not? right, well, we had a very clear... in fact, not? right, well, we had a very clear... infact, i not? right, well, we had a very clear... in fact, i talked through with the policy for destroying, not just documents, but anything relating to hmg. it is not clear to me whether that came from outside the embassy. clearly i am conscious of the attempted propaganda coup around the taliban taking over embassies and what have you. the reality is we haven't seen an attack from afghanistan, a terrorist attack on the west, in 20 years and what we have now got to focus on, which are a security council resolution is at the forefront driving forward focuses on making sure that we continue to exercise maximum leverage on the taliban we possibly can. it is worth also saying the isis—k attack on abbey gate also appears to have been targeted at the taliban, as well as the us and others. , , , ~ . ., ~ others. very briefly, alicia? and what circumstances _
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others. very briefly, alicia? and what circumstances will - others. very briefly, alicia? and what circumstances will the - others. very briefly, alicia? and what circumstances will the uk | what circumstances will the uk recognise the taliban and what sort of recognition do you foresee? as part of of recognition do you foresee? part of that, of recognition do you foresee? is part of that, what of recognition do you foresee? .is part of that, what is of recognition do you foresee? is part of that, what is your assessment of the relationship between the taliban, the fact you are dealing with and al-qaeda? between the taliban, the fact you are dealing with and al—qaeda? first are dealing with and al-qaeda? first of all, we are dealing with and al-qaeda? first of all. we do — are dealing with and al-qaeda? first of all, we do not _ are dealing with and al-qaeda? first of all, we do not recognise governments generally, but i think it is also important not to confer any legitimacy on the taliban. at the same time, we do need to be able to send clear signals. we have done that for some time via our political commission, which has been based in johar. we now have signed... the panellist�*s special envoy in the region to ensure we can do that and we want to have as much continuity in our diplomatic presence as possible. we want to be in a position when the ft and security allows to have a consular dramatic presence in afghanistan, but clearly thatis presence in afghanistan, but clearly that is not possible right now and your last question was... al-qaeda and their relationship _ your last question was... al-qaeda and their relationship with - your last question was... al-qaeda and their relationship with the - and their relationship with the fraction of these taliban who seem to be in negotiations with...
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fraction of these taliban who seem to be in negotiations with. . .- to be in negotiations with... look, i think to be in negotiations with... look, i think there _ to be in negotiations with... look, i think there are _ to be in negotiations with... look, i think there are all— to be in negotiations with... look, i think there are all sorts - to be in negotiations with... look, i think there are all sorts of - i think there are all sorts of tensions within the taliban and even more acute factionalism between them and the groups and as i mentioned before, isis—k appears to have been targeting the taliban, as well as others, at the abbey gate, and so i think first of all he taliban has been clear it has made these assurances publicly, it will not give haven to terrorist groups. the un security council has backed that “p un security council has backed that up is important, so although it was only acquiesced in china and russia, it is the beginning of the contours of a new set of parameters which will exercise greater pressure and hopefully maximum moderate leverage on the taliban. but these are early days where we need to set credible and realistic test for the taliban and realistic test for the taliban and engage with them on the basis of whether or not they follow through. sorry, even as the un is debating that, _ sorry, even as the un is debating that, we — sorry, even as the un is debating that, we have had credible reports of biometric data left behind in afghanistan being used to target and
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murder— afghanistan being used to target and murder former nds staff, so forgive me if— murder former nds staff, so forgive me if i— murder former nds staff, so forgive me if i am _ murder former nds staff, so forgive me if i am doubtful as to the level of h we _ me if i am doubtful as to the level of h we may end up being able to achieve — of h we may end up being able to achieve i— of h we may end up being able to achieve. i know you have shared doubts— achieve. i know you have shared doubts as — achieve. i know you have shared doubts as well, so i won't go any further — doubts as well, so i won't go any further. stuart, you wanted to come in? ., further. stuart, you wanted to come in? . ., ,, . ., , in? thanks, foreign secretary, for our time in? thanks, foreign secretary, for your time this _ in? thanks, foreign secretary, for your time this afternoon. - your time this afternoon. inaudible _ inaudible. goode your own actions in leadership have come under intense scrutiny and i don't want to go into all the holiday stuff, but i do want to understand how your own actions correspond with... taliban across the country, who spoke to, when you spoke to them? 50 the country, who spoke to, when you spoke to them?— spoke to them? so if we could go back to august — spoke to them? so if we could go back to august the _ spoke to them? so if we could go back to august the 6th, - spoke to them? so if we could go back to august the 6th, when - spoke to them? so if we could go back to august the 6th, when the capital— back to august the 6th, when the capital of— back to august the 6th, when the capital of the _ back to august the 6th, when the capital of the numerous - back to august the 6th, when the capital of the numerous profits i capital of the numerous profits fell, _ capital of the numerous profits fell, who— capital of the numerous profits fell, who did _ capital of the numerous profits fell, who did you _ capital of the numerous profits fell, who did you speak- capital of the numerous profits fell, who did you speak to - capital of the numerous profits . fell, who did you speak to them? capital of the numerous profits - fell, who did you speak to them? i am fell, who did you speak to them? am very happy, i have got a fell, who did you speak to them?“ am very happy, i have got a whole call sheet here, but the reality was in terms of to give you the clear approach i was taking that at all of
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these points, such as the nimruz province, the most critical thing was to be engaged with our allies, nato, g7 and regional allies, to try to assess and influence what was going on on the ground and to plan accordingly. 50 going on on the ground and to plan accordingly-— going on on the ground and to plan accordinul . . . , , ., accordingly. so as that happened on the ground. — accordingly. so as that happened on the ground. who _ accordingly. so as that happened on the ground, who did _ accordingly. so as that happened on the ground, who did you _ accordingly. so as that happened on the ground, who did you talk - accordingly. so as that happened on the ground, who did you talk to - accordingly. so as that happened on the ground, who did you talk to that day? _ the ground, who did you talk to that day? l— the ground, who did you talk to that da ? ., ., the ground, who did you talk to that da ? ., . ., the ground, who did you talk to that da ? ., ., ., ., the ground, who did you talk to that da? ., ., ., day? i would have to get back to you on the specific _ day? i would have to get back to you on the specific dates. _ day? i would have to get back to you on the specific dates. yeah, - day? i would have to get back to you on the specific dates. yeah, we - day? i would have to get back to you on the specific dates. yeah, we willl on the specific dates. yeah, we will do a mop up in the usual way. so on the specific dates. yeah, we will do a mop up in the usual way. 50 iii do a mop up in the usualway. so if i was to do a mop up in the usualway. so if i was to go — do a mop up in the usualway. so if i was to go through _ do a mop up in the usual way. so if i was to go through right now all of the various— i was to go through right now all of the various days _ i was to go through right now all of the various days where _ i was to go through right now all of the various days where more - i was to go through right now all of the various days where more and l i was to go through right now all of - the various days where more and more of the _ the various days where more and more of the country— the various days where more and more of the country has _ the various days where more and more of the country has fallen _ the various days where more and more of the country has fallen to _ the various days where more and more of the country has fallen to taliban - of the country has fallen to taliban rule, _ of the country has fallen to taliban rule, right— of the country has fallen to taliban rule, right now. _ of the country has fallen to taliban rule, right now, you _ of the country has fallen to taliban rule, right now, you wouldn't- of the country has fallen to taliban rule, right now, you wouldn't be i rule, right now, you wouldn't be able _ rule, right now, you wouldn't be able to— rule, right now, you wouldn't be able to tell— rule, right now, you wouldn't be able to tell me _ rule, right now, you wouldn't be able to tell me who _ rule, right now, you wouldn't be able to tell me who you - rule, right now, you wouldn't be able to tell me who you talk- rule, right now, you wouldn't be able to tell me who you talk to i rule, right now, you wouldn't be i able to tell me who you talk to on what _ able to tell me who you talk to on what dates? — able to tell me who you talk to on what dates? because _ able to tell me who you talk to on what dates? because your- able to tell me who you talk to on what dates? because your own i able to tell me who you talk to on - what dates? because your own actions have come _ what dates? because your own actions have come under— what dates? because your own actions have come under intense _ what dates? because your own actions have come under intense scrutiny- what dates? because your own actions have come under intense scrutiny up l have come under intense scrutiny up to the _ have come under intense scrutiny up to the point— have come under intense scrutiny up to the point of— have come under intense scrutiny up to the point of calls _ have come under intense scrutiny up to the point of calls for _ to the point of calls for resignation _ to the point of calls for resignation and - to the point of calls for - resignation and accusations of to the point of calls for _ resignation and accusations of being missing _ resignation and accusations of being missing in _ resignation and accusations of being missing in action— resignation and accusations of being missing in action and _ resignation and accusations of being missing in action and i— resignation and accusations of being missing in action and i think - resignation and accusations of being missing in action and i think it- resignation and accusations of being missing in action and i think it is- missing in action and i think it is really— missing in action and i think it is really important _ missing in action and i think it is really important that _ missing in action and i think it is really important that we - missing in action and i think it is- really important that we understand that as _ really important that we understand that as the — really important that we understand that as the situation _ really important that we understand that as the situation got _ really important that we understand that as the situation got worse - really important that we understand that as the situation got worse and i that as the situation got worse and worse. _ that as the situation got worse and worse. what — that as the situation got worse and worse, what the _ that as the situation got worse and worse, what the foreign _ that as the situation got worse and worse, what the foreign secretary| worse, what the foreign secretary was doing — worse, what the foreign secretary was doing and _ worse, what the foreign secretary was doing and who _ worse, what the foreign secretary was doing and who he _ worse, what the foreign secretary was doing and who he was - worse, what the foreign secretary was doing and who he was talking| worse, what the foreign secretary. was doing and who he was talking to, beyond _ was doing and who he was talking to, beyond vague~~ _ was doing and who he was talking to, beyond vague... and _ was doing and who he was talking to, beyond vague... and i— was doing and who he was talking to, beyond vague... and i don't - was doing and who he was talking to, beyond vague... and i don't doubt. beyond vague... and i don't doubt you were — beyond vague... and i don't doubt you were talking _ beyond vague... and i don't doubt
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you were talking to _ beyond vague... and i don't doubt you were talking to people, - beyond vague... and i don't doubt you were talking to people, but i you were talking to people, but beyond — you were talking to people, but beyond vague _ you were talking to people, but beyond vague lines _ you were talking to people, but beyond vague lines such - you were talking to people, but beyond vague lines such as - you were talking to people, but. beyond vague lines such as talking to g7_ beyond vague lines such as talking to g7 partners. _ beyond vague lines such as talking to g7 partners, nato _ beyond vague lines such as talking to g7 partners, nato partners- beyond vague lines such as talkingj to g7 partners, nato partners until the rest _ to g7 partners, nato partners until the rest of— to g7 partners, nato partners until the rest of it— to g7 partners, nato partners until the rest of it because _ to g7 partners, nato partners until the rest of it because you - to g7 partners, nato partners until the rest of it because you have - to g7 partners, nato partners until the rest of it because you have a l the rest of it because you have a very— the rest of it because you have a very specific— the rest of it because you have a very specific allegation - the rest of it because you have a very specific allegation and - the rest of it because you have a very specific allegation and laid i the rest of it because you have a i very specific allegation and laid to you that _ very specific allegation and laid to you that even _ very specific allegation and laid to you that even after _ very specific allegation and laid to you that even after the _ very specific allegation and laid to you that even after the fall- very specific allegation and laid to you that even after the fall of- you that even after the fall of kabul — you that even after the fall of kabul you _ you that even after the fall of kabul you haven't _ you that even after the fall of kabul you haven't even - you that even after the fall of| kabul you haven't even talked you that even after the fall of. kabul you haven't even talked to you that even after the fall of- kabul you haven't even talked to the uk ambassadors _ kabul you haven't even talked to the uk ambassadors and _ kabul you haven't even talked to the uk ambassadors and the _ kabul you haven't even talked to the| uk ambassadors and the surrounding countries _ uk ambassadors and the surrounding countries or— uk ambassadors and the surrounding countries or five _ uk ambassadors and the surrounding countries or five days, _ uk ambassadors and the surrounding countries or five days, was _ uk ambassadors and the surrounding countries or five days, was that - countries or five days, was that great? — countries or five days, was that great? when _ countries or five days, was that great? when did _ countries or five days, was that great? when did you _ countries or five days, was that great? when did you talk- countries or five days, was that great? when did you talk to - countries or five days, was that| great? when did you talk to the british— great? when did you talk to the british ambassadors— great? when did you talk to the british ambassadors and - great? when did you talk to the british ambassadors and the... | great? when did you talk to the. british ambassadors and the... ? asi as i said before, the advice from the ambassadors, and they will often attend the course or meetings we have internally with the foreign office crisis centre is distilled down, so we have a single, complete holistic view. i was engaged with the crisis response team, including the crisis response team, including the director and the director—general on the cobra meetings, including of course with lawrie, and frankly your point about the nato meetings, the g7 meetings, these were critical... red when did you talk to the uk ambassador to
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pakistan? what date? again, the idea i would ring up every ambassador, rather than taking... you i would ring up every ambassador, rather than taking. . .— rather than taking. .. you said you would take _ rather than taking. .. you said you would take the _ rather than taking. .. you said you would take the committee - rather than taking. .. you said you i would take the committee seriously, you must— would take the committee seriously, you must have — would take the committee seriously, you must have known _ would take the committee seriously, you must have known this— would take the committee seriously, you must have known this question i you must have known this question was coming? — you must have known this question was coming? l— you must have known this question was coming?— was coming? i did not presume to know what — was coming? i did not presume to know what questions _ was coming? i did not presume to know what questions will - was coming? i did not presume to know what questions will be - was coming? i did not presume to. know what questions will be asked. we get telegrams in updating us on events, as everyone who has worked in the foreign office, chris, well no, we assessed them very carefully. i don't need to pick up the phone to get an assessment of the ground. what i do need to do is to get an holistic picture from the team who are getting all the different advice, get the options and assess what we do next. gray said the 10th of august, a new border crossing opened up of august, a new border crossing 0 ened u -_ ., of august, a new border crossing oenedu-_ ., ., ., ., opened up from the taliban to iran. how do you — opened up from the taliban to iran. how do you and _ opened up from the taliban to iran. how do you and -- _ opened up from the taliban to iran. how do you and -- had _ opened up from the taliban to iran. how do you and -- had you - opened up from the taliban to iran. how do you and -- had you spoken| opened up from the taliban to iran. l how do you and -- had you spoken to how do you and —— had you spoken to the ambassador— how do you and —— had you spoken to the ambassador at— how do you and —— had you spoken to the ambassador at that _ how do you and —— had you spoken to the ambassador at that point? - how do you and —— had you spoken to the ambassador at that point? all. how do you and —— had you spoken to the ambassador at that point? fillet“. the ambassador at that point? all of the ambassador at that point? all of the military data _ the ambassador at that point? all of the military data i _ the ambassador at that point? all of the military data i was _ the ambassador at that point? iii li, the military data i was updated the ambassador at that point? the military data i was updated on, but principally... the the military data i was updated on, but principally. . .— but principally... the acquisition ou had but principally... the acquisition you had rrot _ but principally... the acquisition you had not been _ but principally... the acquisition you had not been spoken - but principally... the acquisition you had not been spoken with i but principally... the acquisition. you had not been spoken with the ambassador— you had not been spoken with the ambassador for— you had not been spoken with the ambassador for a _ you had not been spoken with the ambassador for a long _ you had not been spoken with the ambassador for a long time - you had not been spoken with the ambassador for a long time as- you had not been spoken with the| ambassador for a long time as the situation _ ambassador for a long time as the situation got — ambassador for a long time as the situation got worse _ ambassador for a long time as the situation got worse and _ ambassador for a long time as the situation got worse and worse - ambassador for a long time as the situation got worse and worse and worse? _ situation got worse and worse and worse? you — situation got worse and worse and worse? you hadn't _ situation got worse and worse and worse? you hadn't spoken- situation got worse and worse and worse? you hadn't spoken to - situation got worse and worse and worse? you hadn't spoken to heri worse? you hadn't spoken to her
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majesty— worse? you hadn't spoken to her majesty government's _ worse? you hadn't spoken to her majesty government's presents l worse? you hadn't spoken to her. majesty government's presents tips in those _ majesty government's presents tips in those neighbouring _ majesty government's presents tips in those neighbouring capitals? - majesty government's presents tipsj in those neighbouring capitals? ho, in those neighbouring capitals? no, that is in those neighbouring capitals? that is nonsense. in those neighbouring capitals? no, that is nonsense. so _ in those neighbouring capitals? no, that is nonsense. so tell— in those neighbouring capitals? no, that is nonsense. so tell me - in those neighbouring capitals? no, that is nonsense. so tell me when l that is nonsense. so tell me when ou talk that is nonsense. so tell me when you talk to — that is nonsense. so tell me when you talk to them. _ that is nonsense. so tell me when you talk to them. what _ that is nonsense. so tell me when you talk to them. what you - that is nonsense. so tell me when you talk to them. what you are i you talk to them. what you are sa in: is you talk to them. what you are saying is rrot — you talk to them. what you are saying is not correct _ you talk to them. what you are saying is not correct because . you talk to them. what you are l saying is not correct because we come to me have the feedback and advice coming from the central response team. ambassadors willjoin those meetings, if there is a particular issue we need to hear directly from them, it is the same in the cobra meetings, and the lion's share of my effort was working with notjust critical regional partners, like turkey, qatar, but also what is the allied position response to this? those discussions were happening with the nato and g7 and within the other areas. ., , nato and g7 and within the other areas. . , , ., , .. , areas. can i 'ust understand because i have areas. can ijust understand because i have listened _ areas. can ijust understand because i have listened carefully _ areas. can ijust understand because i have listened carefully to _ areas. can ijust understand because i have listened carefully to what - i have listened carefully to what you have — i have listened carefully to what you have said _ i have listened carefully to what you have said in— i have listened carefully to what you have said in media - i have listened carefully to what i you have said in media interviews and what — you have said in media interviews and what else _ you have said in media interviews and what else about _ you have said in media interviews and what else about the - you have said in media interviews and what else about the various l and what else about the various calls _ and what else about the various calls you — and what else about the various calls you were _ and what else about the various calls you were engaged - and what else about the various calls you were engaged in, - and what else about the various calls you were engaged in, as l and what else about the various l calls you were engaged in, as you were _ calls you were engaged in, as you were on— calls you were engaged in, as you were on holiday, _ calls you were engaged in, as you were on holiday, and much - calls you were engaged in, as you were on holiday, and much like i calls you were engaged in, as youi were on holiday, and much like mr bryant— were on holiday, and much like mr bryant i— were on holiday, and much like mr bryant i think— were on holiday, and much like mr bryant i think it— were on holiday, and much like mr bryant i think it is— were on holiday, and much like mr bryant i think it is important- were on holiday, and much like mr bryant i think it is important that i bryant i think it is important that people _ bryant i think it is important that people do— bryant i think it is important that people do take _ bryant i think it is important that people do take holidays - bryant i think it is important that people do take holidays but - bryant i think it is important that people do take holidays but it. bryant i think it is important that people do take holidays but it isi people do take holidays but it is also important _ people do take holidays but it is also important to _ people do take holidays but it is also important to know - people do take holidays but it is also important to know when i people do take holidays but it is also important to know when to| people do take holidays but it is. also important to know when to cut them _ also important to know when to cut them short — also important to know when to cut them short. again, _ also important to know when to cut them short. again, for— also important to know when to cut them short. again, for the - also important to know when to cut them short. again, for the sake -
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also important to know when to cut them short. again, for the sake ofi them short. again, for the sake of transparency— them short. again, for the sake of transparency of _ them short. again, for the sake of transparency of your— them short. again, for the sake of transparency of your own - them short. again, for the sake of transparency of your own actions, | transparency of your own actions, when _ transparency of your own actions, when did — transparency of your own actions, when did you _ transparency of your own actions, when did you go _ transparency of your own actions, when did you go on _ transparency of your own actions, when did you go on holiday, - transparency of your own actions, when did you go on holiday, what| when did you go on holiday, what date did — when did you go on holiday, what date did you _ when did you go on holiday, what date did you go _ when did you go on holiday, what date did you go on _ when did you go on holiday, what date did you go on holiday, - when did you go on holiday, what date did you go on holiday, i'm . when did you go on holiday, what. date did you go on holiday, i'm not interested — date did you go on holiday, i'm not interested what— date did you go on holiday, i'm not interested what you _ date did you go on holiday, i'm not interested what you did _ date did you go on holiday, i'm not interested what you did there, - date did you go on holiday, i'm noti interested what you did there, what date did _ interested what you did there, what date did you — interested what you did there, what date did you go? _ interested what you did there, what date did you go? i— interested what you did there, what date did you go?— date did you go? i made a full statement- — date did you go? i made a full statement. what _ date did you go? i made a full statement. what date? - date did you go? i made a full statement. what date? i - date did you go? i made a full| statement. what date? i think date did you go? i made a full - statement. what date? i think your own personal _ statement. what date? i think your own personal transparency - statement. what date? i think your own personal transparency is - own personal transparency is important _ own personal transparency is important l— own personal transparency is important-— own personal transparency is imortant. . . important. i made a full statement on it. did important. i made a full statement on it- did the _ important. i made a full statement on it. did the statement _ important. i made a full statement on it. did the statement includes l on it. did the statement includes the date you _ on it. did the statement includes the date you left _ on it. did the statement includes the date you left the _ on it. did the statement includes the date you left the country? i on it. did the statement includes l the date you left the country? why can't _ the date you left the country? why can't you _ the date you left the country? why can't you just — the date you left the country? why can't you just answer _ the date you left the country? why can't you just answer this - the date you left the country? why| can't you just answer this question, this is— can't you just answer this question, this is absurd _ can't you just answer this question, this is absurd. to _ can't you just answer this question, this is absurd.— this is absurd. to be honest with ou, i this is absurd. to be honest with you. i think _ this is absurd. to be honest with you. i think it— this is absurd. to be honest with you, i think it is _ this is absurd. to be honest with you, i think it is a _ this is absurd. to be honest with you, i think it is a pretty - this is absurd. to be honest with| you, i think it is a pretty partisan political... i you, i think it is a pretty partisan political- - -_ political... i 'ust want to know when you _ political... i just want to know when you went _ political... i just want to know when you went on _ political... i just want to know when you went on holiday - political... i just want to know - when you went on holiday because i think— when you went on holiday because i think it _ when you went on holiday because i think it is _ when you went on holiday because i think it is important, _ when you went on holiday because i think it is important, as— when you went on holiday because i think it is important, as mr- when you went on holiday because i think it is important, as mr bryant. think it is important, as mr bryant correctly— think it is important, as mr bryant correctly said _ think it is important, as mr bryant correctly said earlier, _ think it is important, as mr bryant correctly said earlier, we - think it is important, as mr bryant correctly said earlier, we have - think it is important, as mr bryant correctly said earlier, we have uk| correctly said earlier, we have uk personnel— correctly said earlier, we have uk personnel can _ correctly said earlier, we have uk personnel can uk _ correctly said earlier, we have uk personnel can uk civilians in - correctly said earlier, we have uk . personnel can uk civilians in harm's way. _ personnel can uk civilians in harm's way, and _ personnel can uk civilians in harm's way, and i— personnel can uk civilians in harm's way. and i think— personnel can uk civilians in harm's way, and i think it _ personnel can uk civilians in harm's way, and i think it is _ personnel can uk civilians in harm's way, and i think it is important - personnel can uk civilians in harm's way, and i think it is important for. way, and i think it is important for us to— way, and i think it is important for us to know— way, and i think it is important for us to know what _ way, and i think it is important for us to know what you _ way, and i think it is important for us to know what you were - way, and i think it is important for us to know what you were doing . way, and i think it is important for. us to know what you were doing and where _ us to know what you were doing and where you _ us to know what you were doing and where you are — us to know what you were doing and where you are doing _ us to know what you were doing and where you are doing it _ us to know what you were doing and where you are doing it from. - us to know what you were doing and where you are doing it from. when. where you are doing it from. when did you _ where you are doing it from. when did you go — where you are doing it from. when did you go on _ where you are doing it from. when did you go on holiday? _ where you are doing it from. when did you go on holiday? i'm - where you are doing it from. when did you go on holiday? i'm not - did you go on holiday? i'm not looking — did you go on holiday? i'm not looking to _ did you go on holiday? i'm not looking to browbeat _ did you go on holiday? i'm not looking to browbeat you - did you go on holiday? i'm not looking to browbeat you over. did you go on holiday? i'm not - looking to browbeat you over this, i 'ust looking to browbeat you over this, i just want— looking to browbeat you over this, i just want to — looking to browbeat you over this, i just want to know— looking to browbeat you over this, i just want to know when _ looking to browbeat you over this, i just want to know when you - looking to browbeat you over this, i just want to know when you went. i looking to browbeat you over this, i| just want to know when you went. it just want to know when you went. seems... just want to know when you went. it seems... when _ just want to know when you went. it seems... when did _ just want to know when you went. it seems... when did you _ just want to know when you went. it seems... when did you go - just want to know when you went. it seems... when did you go on - just want to know when you went. it i seems... when did you go on holiday? i am seems... when did you go on holiday? i am getting — seems... when did you go on holiday? i am getting nowhere _ seems... when did you go on holiday? i am getting nowhere on _ seems... when did you go on holiday? i am getting nowhere on this. - seems... when did you go on holiday? i am getting nowhere on this. in - i am getting nowhere on this. in terms _ i am getting nowhere on this. in terms of— i am getting nowhere on this. in terms of nato _ i am getting nowhere on this. in terms of nato discussions, - i am getting nowhere on this. in terms of nato discussions, the i terms of nato discussions, the defence — terms of nato discussions, the defence secretary _ terms of nato discussions, the defence secretary has - terms of nato discussions, the defence secretary has said - terms of nato discussions, the defence secretary has said is l terms of nato discussions, the i defence secretary has said is that us was—
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defence secretary has said is that us was leaving. _ defence secretary has said is that us was leaving, he _ defence secretary has said is that us was leaving, he had _ defence secretary has said is that us was leaving, he had tried i defence secretary has said is that us was leaving, he had tried to i us was leaving, he had tried to speak— us was leaving, he had tried to speak to — us was leaving, he had tried to speak to other— us was leaving, he had tried to speak to other nato _ us was leaving, he had tried to speak to other nato members. us was leaving, he had tried to. speak to other nato members to us was leaving, he had tried to i speak to other nato members to see if there _ speak to other nato members to see if there was— speak to other nato members to see if there was some _ speak to other nato members to see if there was some kind _ speak to other nato members to see if there was some kind of— if there was some kind of arrangement— if there was some kind of arrangement that - if there was some kind of arrangement that could l if there was some kind of. arrangement that could be if there was some kind of- arrangement that could be created if there was some kind of— arrangement that could be created to supplement— arrangement that could be created to supplement the — arrangement that could be created to supplement the absence _ arrangement that could be created to supplement the absence of _ arrangement that could be created to supplement the absence of the i arrangement that could be created to supplement the absence of the us. l supplement the absence of the us. what has _ supplement the absence of the us. what has not — supplement the absence of the us. what has not been _ supplement the absence of the us. what has not been clear— supplement the absence of the us. what has not been clear is- supplement the absence of the us. what has not been clear is when i supplement the absence of the us. | what has not been clear is when did you or— what has not been clear is when did you or the _ what has not been clear is when did you or the prime _ what has not been clear is when did you or the prime minister— what has not been clear is when did you or the prime minister speak- what has not been clear is when did you or the prime minister speak to. you or the prime minister speak to the toat— you or the prime minister speak to the toat general— you or the prime minister speak to the toat general secretary- you or the prime minister speak to the toat general secretary about i the toat general secretary about that possibility? _ the toat general secretary about that possibility? 0h, _ the toat general secretary about that possibility?— that possibility? 0h, iwas in, arain, i that possibility? 0h, iwas in, again. i can — that possibility? 0h, iwas in, again, i can combat _ that possibility? 0h, iwas in, again, i can combat you - that possibility? 0h, iwas in, again, i can combat you with l that possibility? oh, i was in, i again, i can combat you with the specific date, but in nato foreign ministers meeting is an bilateral and other nato meetings including with the secretary general, and indeed from well before, even under the previous trump administration we were having these conversations. i think the defence secretary was absolutely right to describe this in the way i describe it to eliseu but there was no credible alternative alliance. any suggestions to the contrary are not borne out. so you sa it contrary are not borne out. so you say it was _ contrary are not borne out. so you say it was fully — contrary are not borne out. so you say it was fully explored? - contrary are not borne out. so you say it was fully explored? of - contrary are not borne out. so you. say it was fully explored? of course it was. say it was fully explored? of course it was- the — say it was fully explored? of course it was. the secretary _ say it was fully explored? of course it was. the secretary general - say it was fully explored? of course it was. the secretary general and i it was. the secretary general and the nato ally said it consistently,
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nato went into afghanistan together, adapted the mission from 2014 and they would withdraw together. and there were very few meaningful departures from that view. loath? there were very few meaningful departures from that view. why did it take so long _ departures from that view. why did it take so long to _ departures from that view. why did it take so long to convene - departures from that view. why did it take so long to convene the - departures from that view. why did it take so long to convene the g7? | departures from that view. why did | it take so long to convene the g7? i don't it take so long to convene the g7? don't accept that it did. it take so long to convene the g7? i don't accept that it did. so the - don't accept that it did. so the fall of kabul— don't accept that it did. so the fall of kabul happens - don't accept that it did. so the fall of kabul happens on - don't accept that it did. so the fall of kabul happens on the i don't accept that it did. so the i fall of kabul happens on the 15th, the g7 _ fall of kabul happens on the 15th, the g7 meets— fall of kabul happens on the 15th, the g7 meets on— fall of kabul happens on the 15th, the g7 meets on the _ fall of kabul happens on the 15th, the g7 meets on the 24. - fall of kabul happens on the 15th, the g7 meets on the 24. everyone was deafinr the g7 meets on the 24. everyone was dealing with — the g7 meets on the 24. everyone was dealing with the _ the g7 meets on the 24. everyone was dealing with the immediate _ the g7 meets on the 24. everyone was dealing with the immediate situation l dealing with the immediate situation on the ground. you are referring i think to the leaders meeting, is that correct?— think to the leaders meeting, is that correct? yes. there was a g7 forei . n that correct? yes. there was a g7 foreign ministers _ that correct? yes. there was a g7 foreign ministers meeting before that. r ., foreign ministers meeting before that. r . foreign ministers meeting before that. . . . , .y . foreign ministers meeting before that. . . . , ,, . that. and are you happy, are you content with _ that. and are you happy, are you content with the _ that. and are you happy, are you content with the outcome - that. and are you happy, are you content with the outcome of - that. and are you happy, are you content with the outcome of the | content with the outcome of the leaders — content with the outcome of the leaders meeting? _ content with the outcome of the leaders meeting? infe— content with the outcome of the leaders meeting?— content with the outcome of the leaders meeting? we circulated a -a er that leaders meeting? we circulated a paper that has — leaders meeting? we circulated a paper that has received _ leaders meeting? we circulated a paper that has received i - leaders meeting? we circulated a paper that has received i think i leaders meeting? we circulated a i paper that has received i think very widespread support for setting out a range of priorities, safe passage, so we've all got a similar problem. there is no country, or certainly not in the conversations i have had, that isn't wanting to make sure that
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we can make sure we can get any remaining citizens plus afghans that work for us out. the issue of counter terrorism is clearly important, how do we not to give safe haven to any terrorist groups. there is a whole question around reasonable stability and humanitarian lifeline. there is an issue here. will the taliban, as many say, wish to reach out to try and get access to international financial institutions, and to aid, in which case they will have to pass certain tests. one of them obviously will be a safe, working environment within afghanistan for un and humanitarian groups to operate, because there is no way we would... it sounds like you are content with the outcome — it sounds like you are content with the outcome of— it sounds like you are content with the outcome of the _ it sounds like you are content with the outcome of the meeting. i it sounds like you are content with the outcome of the meeting. no, i it sounds like you are content with the outcome of the meeting. no, it is a first step. _ the outcome of the meeting. no, it is a first step, as _ the outcome of the meeting. no, it is a first step, as was _ the outcome of the meeting. no, it is a first step, as was the _ the outcome of the meeting. no, it is a first step, as was the un - is a first step, as was the un security council... but is a first step, as was the un security council. . .— is a first step, as was the un security council... but that has been weak _ security council... but that has been weak as _ security council... but that has been weak as well, _ security council... but that has been weak as well, has - security council... but that has been weak as well, has it - security council... but that has been weak as well, has it not l security council... but that has - been weak as well, has it not come
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in terms _ been weak as well, has it not come in terms of— been weak as well, has it not come in terms of the _ been weak as well, has it not come in terms of the outcome? - been weak as well, has it not come in terms of the outcome? h0. - been weak as well, has it not come in terms of the outcome?— in terms of the outcome? no. it is re in terms of the outcome? no. it is pretty remarkable, _ in terms of the outcome? no. it is pretty remarkable, in _ in terms of the outcome? no. it is pretty remarkable, in these - pretty remarkable, in these conditions and the circumstances, with all the tensions that are well known amongst security council member is to get a security council resolution which at least has been acquiesced by russia and china, but the key thing is going to be broadening that out, so you have not just a p5 and security council set of buy in, but you also then have some of the regional players, the big donors we will need given the humanitarian systems. but the li humanitarian systems. but the h was going to make is that the taliban has a choice here. people on its behalf are professing they want to play a different way. they will not want to see the gains, certainly not want to see the gains, certainly not that the economic and social structures, such as it is, totally collapsed. and therefore there is an opportunity to test how seriously they want to continue to have lines and ties out to the international community. if they want aid, we will have to see a safe operating environment within afghanistan. and
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there is a whole range of other asks around human rights. i there is a whole range of other asks around human rights.— around human rights. i suspect we will come to _ around human rights. i suspect we will come to that, _ around human rights. i suspect we will come to that, but _ around human rights. i suspect we will come to that, but i _ around human rights. i suspect we will come to that, but i am - will come to that, but i am conscious— will come to that, but i am conscious of— will come to that, but i am conscious of time. - will come to that, but i am conscious of time. i - will come to that, but i am conscious of time. i have l will come to that, but i am . conscious of time. i have one will come to that, but i am - conscious of time. i have one very last question. _ conscious of time. i have one very last question, chair. _ conscious of time. i have one very last question, chair. in _ conscious of time. i have one very last question, chair. in terms - conscious of time. i have one very last question, chair. in terms of. last question, chair. in terms of your— last question, chair. in terms of your leadership _ last question, chair. in terms of your leadership and _ last question, chair. in terms of your leadership and your- last question, chair. in terms of your leadership and your own i last question, chair. in terms of- your leadership and your own actions up your leadership and your own actions up until_ your leadership and your own actions up until this — your leadership and your own actions up until this point, _ your leadership and your own actions up until this point, did _ your leadership and your own actions up until this point, did you _ your leadership and your own actions up until this point, did you ever- your leadership and your own actions up until this point, did you ever at. up until this point, did you ever at any point — up until this point, did you ever at any point consider— up until this point, did you ever at any point consider or— up until this point, did you ever at any point consider or offer- up until this point, did you ever at any point consider or offer to - any point consider or offer to resign? — any point consider or offer to resin? ., ... , any point consider or offer to resin? ., , ., resign? no, i considered getting on with the job — resign? no, i considered getting on with the job of _ resign? no, i considered getting on with the job of what _ resign? no, i considered getting on with the job of what has _ resign? no, i considered getting on with the job of what has been - resign? no, i considered getting on with the job of what has been a - with the job of what has been a herculean task of getting the 17,000 people out, and now focusing on getting out the remaining people that we want to see out by third countries, and helping to forge internationally, which the prime minister is leaning on i believe, i am confident come on all of those parties that i have mentioned. thank ou. we parties that i have mentioned. thank you we are — parties that i have mentioned. thank you we are in _ parties that i have mentioned. thank you. we are in different _ parties that i have mentioned. thank you. we are in different political - you. we are in different political parties, foreign secretary. i have no doubt you want to do the best for the people who need to get out of afghanistan, i have no doubt about
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that at all. but on the surface, this looks like a failure of planning on a grand scale. people are at risk, some people have died probably who we don't know about yet, and all i have heard you say is that you wish you had come back from holiday earlier. are there any other regrets that you have, anything you wish that, in policy terms, or you yourself, would have done differently, to be more effective in rescuing and saving people? first of all, that is not _ rescuing and saving people? first of all, that is not all— rescuing and saving people? first of all, that is not all i _ rescuing and saving people? first of all, that is not all i said, _ rescuing and saving people? first of all, that is not all i said, i _ rescuing and saving people? first of all, that is not all i said, i have - all, that is not all i said, i have said with the benefit of hindsight i would come back, but i have also talked through what we have achieved, notjust for british nationals, notjust for the afghans that work for us but for the judges, the women's rights defenders, the journalist. i have also talked through the next phase and how we need to reinforce all those efforts
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to get people out via third countries, whilst kabul airport is not operational. i have read through three examples where post the covid repatriation effort you and your committee made a series of recommendations, and we embrace them. you know, i came to this committee readily when the chair suggested they wanted to hold the meeting today. i would suggest it was originally scheduled for an hour and i need to leave but i would suggest giving the questions we go on for another half an hour, and i hope that demonstrates to the committee howl hope that demonstrates to the committee how i take the scrutiny very seriously, and also i think it is a part of ensuring that my department and myself can be on our game as possible. but can ijust say, i think there has been a little bit of bruising over some of the operational challenges, given the rapid fall beyond expectation of kabul, and what that really meant on the ground, what it meant for
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afghans, whether they were willing to get to the airport, whether we could get our nationals to the airport, notjust because of the logistical obstacles but because of fear, and the anxiety. when we were dealing with all of that. and i would still stand by the fact that not just the would still stand by the fact that notjust the military but would still stand by the fact that not just the military but the civilian mod, home office, staff, have pulled off a quite remarkable evacuation of people were greater in challenge and scale than anything certainly in living memory. but of course we will continue to learn all of those lessons. {lit course we will continue to learn all of those lessons.— of those lessons. of course, i wouldn't _ of those lessons. of course, i wouldn't deny, _ of those lessons. of course, i wouldn't deny, i _ of those lessons. of course, i wouldn't deny, i don't - of those lessons. of course, i wouldn't deny, i don't think. of those lessons. of course, i l wouldn't deny, i don't think any member of the committee would deny that everybody involved in the operations on the ground were at risk and it was extremely operationally difficult. what i was trying to ascertain, for the future, and to understand what has happened, whether you believe you could have done anything better, or the foreign
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office could have done anything better. for instance, it has been reported in the press that the department thwarted efforts to set “p department thwarted efforts to set up overland escape routes to the surrounding countries of afghanistan over quite a long period in the run—up to august. that has been reported. you can tell us if it's true or not. but i interested, because you must have, in the privacy of the foreign office, for we could have done it better, we should have done that, with all the difficulties, and i think this committee would be interested in those views of the experience. {lit those views of the experience. of course, it is a fair challenge. on the first point, nonsense to say the fcd oh thwarted attempts to create lines out of the country. the reality is a lot of those third countries are very apprehensive and what they need to know as we are going to support them by having a workable system to get our nationals
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out. otherwise you see what has happened with uzbekistan, the border goes up. in terms of my own position, in fairness i haven't had a lot of time to sit back and muse and mull, but i am always open to learning lessons in the future. i think we need to get beyond the stage of the crisis we are at with the evacuation and draw in all of that experience and look at it with a calm and sober reflection, but of course i will do that. i think any responsible minister, frankly anyone and anyone other walk of life would do that. share and anyone other walk of life would do that. �* , ., and anyone other walk of life would do that. �* ,, ... and anyone other walk of life would do that. �* i. .., . do that. are you content that the shift patterns. — do that. are you content that the shift patterns, the _ do that. are you content that the shift patterns, the rotors, - do that. are you content that the shift patterns, the rotors, the . shift patterns, the rotors, the effort that was put in in the uk, in the crisis centre in the uk, matched the crisis centre in the uk, matched the requirement of the operation? yes, i mean, and we looked at it, and i looked at it on a number of occasions, to make sure, and i spoke to the director—general, the permanent secretary to make sure, do we need extra resource? i can look
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at the various points that i did that and come back to you. but i was constantly thinking is the more we can do, but the real challenge, in a narrow window, was the safety and security of kabul airport. if we had had an extra week... security of kabul airport. if we had had an extra week. . .— security of kabul airport. if we had had an extra week... forgive me, i don't wish — had an extra week... forgive me, i don't wish to. _ had an extra week... forgive me, i don't wish to, it _ had an extra week... forgive me, i don't wish to, it is _ had an extra week... forgive me, i don't wish to, it isjust _ had an extra week... forgive me, i don't wish to, it is just we're - don't wish to, it is just we're going to have to look at the crisis and the question again, as you know, i'm sure you will be as welcome and i'm sure you will be as welcome and i'm just asking right now, are you content that you were doing the 24—7 shift, seven days a week in london, that were being done in kabul? are there any areas of the rotor you would say needed to be augmented, people working weekends, i'm sure you will already be thinking about it. ~ . , it. we were running a three shift, 211-7 it. we were running a three shift, 24-7 operation — it. we were running a three shift, 24-7 operation since _ it. we were running a three shift, 24-7 operation since the - it. we were running a three shift, 24-7 operation since the 15th. - it. we were running a three shift, j 24-7 operation since the 15th. we 24—7 operation since the 15th. we had partners across government embedded into the structure, including seven from the home office and the border force, six from hm
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passport office, 100 from mod. of course i will want to glean the lessons and readily embrace the opportunity. we are in an even better position next time around, god forgive anything like this happens again. i think the evidence of that is how we responded after what i also think was an impressive repatriation event on covid, we still looked at ourselves in the mirror, asked the difficult questions and got better. foreign secreta i questions and got better. foreign secretary i appreciate _ questions and got better. foreign secretary i appreciate your - questions and got better. foreign| secretary i appreciate your points, and i get the lessons learned. i am going to come to two very quick ones, bob, very briefly. you said once the us _ ones, bob, very briefly. you said once the us pulled _ ones, bob, very briefly. you said once the us pulled out, - ones, bob, very briefly. you said once the us pulled out, a - ones, bob, very briefly. you said once the us pulled out, a nato l once the us pulled out, a nato operation — once the us pulled out, a nato operation without the us was a nonstarter. was that due to either lack of— nonstarter. was that due to either lack of political will by other nato countries, — lack of political will by other nato countries, due to lack of funding or desire _ countries, due to lack of funding or desire to _ countries, due to lack of funding or desire to find, or are we talking about— desire to find, or are we talking about technical capacity and capability, because that seems to be an important question for the future? — an important question for the future? are we was going to be dependent on the us full forward
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deployment or can you do it without the us? _ deployment or can you do it without the us? so— deployment or can you do it without the us? so what was the answer for this one? _ the us? so what was the answer for this one? ., . . ~ . . this one? you are talking about all ofthe this one? you are talking about all of the nato _ this one? you are talking about all of the nato allies _ this one? you are talking about all of the nato allies that _ this one? you are talking about all of the nato allies that might - this one? you are talking about all of the nato allies that might give i of the nato allies that might give variations on a theme but i think all of those factors would be relevant. there is probably a psychological confidence as well without the us, and i think you are right to say we need to look at our own capabilities. and to do so in concert with our partners. if you look at the integration of view, one of the things we talk about is the importance and the ability to operate in a more agile way with clusters of like—minded countries. this is already part of the strategic analysis, notwithstanding that of course the us will remain our closest ally.— our closest ally. one of your predecessors _ our closest ally. one of your predecessors in _ our closest ally. one of your predecessors in your - our closest ally. one of your predecessors in your office | our closest ally. one of your - predecessors in your office once said in a meeting when i was still in uniform that if we don't have the capability, we don't have the responsibility. would you agree with that? �* , ,., , responsibility. would you agree with that? ~ y ., , . that? absolutely, and since international— that? absolutely, and since international relations - that? absolutely, and since i international relations theory, there has a ways been the crucial
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question, have you reconciled your ends and your means? that is clearly from 2001 right the way through 20 years, a question. i am from 2001 right the way through 20 years, a question. iam not from 2001 right the way through 20 years, a question. i am not saying the last two years, that is on our watch, we take responsibility for it, that's why i am here. i do think there are questions about, what was there are questions about, what was the mission, how it adapted, happily at every stage reconciled our means with our ends, and the exit look like in a realistic and credible way, but that is a much more strategic and i expect historic question, as well as all of the lessons we are learning now. trier? lessons we are learning now. very brief one from _ lessons we are learning now. very brief one from stuart. _ lessons we are learning now. very brief one from stuart. foreign - brief one from stuart. foreign secretary. _ brief one from stuart. foreign secretary. can _ brief one from stuart. foreign secretary, can take _ brief one from stuart. foreign secretary, can take you - brief one from stuart. foreign secretary, can take you back. brief one from stuart. foreign l secretary, can take you back to brief one from stuart. foreign - secretary, can take you back to the point _ secretary, can take you back to the point you _ secretary, can take you back to the point you made about the cover and the rotors— point you made about the cover and the rotors you just mentioned. my understanding is all military leave was cancelled on 23rd ofjuly. did you initiate a similar process for the foreign office? no, you initiate a similar process for the foreign office?— you initiate a similar process for the foreign office? no, what i did was make sure _ the foreign office? no, what i did was make sure that _ the foreign office? no, what i did was make sure that we _ the foreign office? no, what i did was make sure that we had -
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the foreign office? no, what i didj was make sure that we had cover, the foreign office? no, what i did l was make sure that we had cover, a decent rota system, because you didn't know for how long this would endure. of course, we were pressing for an extension of the window. in which case, you need to make sure with an emergency response team, and indeed your team theatre, that you are able to resource those properly, but also make sure that you can rotate them, otherwise you have a much greater risk of mistakes happening. i much greater risk of mistakes happening-— much greater risk of mistakes haueninu. ~ . , ., much greater risk of mistakes ha eninu. ~ . , ., ~ happening. i think many would think that if all military _ happening. i think many would think that if all military leave _ happening. i think many would think that if all military leave was - that if all military leave was cancelled on 23rd ofjuly it was a bad idea — cancelled on 23rd ofjuly it was a bad idea for yourself, the prime minister— bad idea for yourself, the prime minister and several other officials in the _ minister and several other officials in the fcdo, the home office and the mod to _ in the fcdo, the home office and the mod to take breaks at that time but i will mod to take breaks at that time but i will leave — mod to take breaks at that time but i will leave it at that. i mod to take breaks at that time but i will leave it at that.— i will leave it at that. i will try and move _ i will leave it at that. i will try and move on _ i will leave it at that. i will try and move on a _ i will leave it at that. i will try and move on a bit. _ i will leave it at that. i will try and move on a bit. we - i will leave it at that. i will try and move on a bit. we have l i will leave it at that. i will try - and move on a bit. we have spoken to ngos _ and move on a bit. we have spoken to ngos and _ and move on a bit. we have spoken to ngos and others — and move on a bit. we have spoken to ngos and others who _ and move on a bit. we have spoken to ngos and others who have _ and move on a bit. we have spoken to ngos and others who have been - and move on a bit. we have spoken to ngos and others who have been on i and move on a bit. we have spoken toi ngos and others who have been on the ground _ ngos and others who have been on the ground and _ ngos and others who have been on the ground and others— ngos and others who have been on the ground and others in— ngos and others who have been on the ground and others in afghanistan- ground and others in afghanistan looking _ ground and others in afghanistan looking after— ground and others in afghanistan looking after communities - ground and others in afghanistan looking after communities for. ground and others in afghanistan looking after communities for a i looking after communities for a longer— looking after communities for a longer period _ looking after communities for a longer period of— looking after communities for a longer period of time _ looking after communities for a longer period of time that - looking after communities for a longer period of time that we . looking after communities for a i longer period of time that we have been _ longer period of time that we have been deployed. _ longer period of time that we have been deployed, and _ longer period of time that we have been deployed, and of— longer period of time that we have been deployed, and of course - longer period of time that we havej been deployed, and of course they will be _ been deployed, and of course they will be worried _ been deployed, and of course they will be worried about _ been deployed, and of course they will be worried about what - been deployed, and of course they will be worried about what comes. will be worried about what comes next _ will be worried about what comes next foreign— will be worried about what comes next. foreign secretary, - will be worried about what comes next. foreign secretary, you - will be worried about what comes next. foreign secretary, you saidj next. foreign secretary, you said you have —
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next. foreign secretary, you said you have used _ next. foreign secretary, you said you have used sanctions, - next. foreign secretary, you said you have used sanctions, aid - next. foreign secretary, you said you have used sanctions, aid andj you have used sanctions, aid and access— you have used sanctions, aid and access to — you have used sanctions, aid and access to the _ you have used sanctions, aid and access to the international - you have used sanctions, aid and - access to the international monetary financial— access to the international monetary financial system _ access to the international monetary financial system in— access to the international monetary financial system in order _ access to the international monetary financial system in order to - access to the international monetary financial system in order to put- financial system in order to put pressure — financial system in order to put pressure on _ financial system in order to put pressure on the _ financial system in order to put pressure on the taliban. - financial system in order to put pressure on the taliban. how l financial system in order to put. pressure on the taliban. how do financial system in order to put- pressure on the taliban. how do you propose _ pressure on the taliban. how do you propose to— pressure on the taliban. how do you propose to do — pressure on the taliban. how do you propose to do that _ pressure on the taliban. how do you propose to do that and _ pressure on the taliban. how do you propose to do that and you - pressure on the taliban. how do you propose to do that and you think - pressure on the taliban. how do you propose to do that and you think it l propose to do that and you think it will have _ propose to do that and you think it will have an — propose to do that and you think it will have an impact _ propose to do that and you think it will have an impact on _ propose to do that and you think it will have an impact on the - propose to do that and you think it will have an impact on the afghanl will have an impact on the afghan people? _ will have an impact on the afghan --eole? ., , �* will have an impact on the afghan eo le? ., , �* ., will have an impact on the afghan --eole? ., , �* ., ., will have an impact on the afghan ..eole? ., , �* ., ., , people? clearly, we've got to try, whilst not exacerbating _ people? clearly, we've got to try, whilst not exacerbating the - whilst not exacerbating the situation for ordinary afghans. but there are some things. for example, we of course want to get the humanitarian aid to those who need it most. i think there will be an interesting question about what kind of support we can provide the neighbouring countries. we have a track record of doing that. for example, with the rohingya refugees that went into other countries, so what age can we do to support that? i think we deed nude to talk —— we do need to talk with the taliban. if so, of course we have doubled our
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aid, 286 million for afghanistan this year. we have allocated 30 million for regional partners full stop we want to make sure the aid gets to those who need it most. i also think there is a strategic piece, again the integrated review we talk about this, about the regional stability which will be dependent on the fragility of the situation not in afghanistan, not ending up with wholesale collapse. what we need to do is set some early tests for the taliban. i am realistic, as others have said, about the taliban. but they did at least show in the context of the evacuation from the airport that they could communicate a message and undertaking, and broadly, with some exceptions on the ground, and roadblocks, followed through with it. it is important to set further tests and judge them by their ability to behave in a reasonable and constructive way, and that will be critical for the humanitarian lifeline. . , .
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be critical for the humanitarian lifeline. . . , lifeline. so, it was a military coalition _ lifeline. so, it was a military coalition of _ lifeline. so, it was a military coalition of several - lifeline. so, it was a military. coalition of several countries. lifeline. so, it was a military - coalition of several countries. will this be _ coalition of several countries. will this be a _ coalition of several countries. will this be a coalition _ coalition of several countries. will this be a coalition of— coalition of several countries. will this be a coalition of how- coalition of several countries. will this be a coalition of how we - coalition of several countries. will this be a coalition of how we use i this be a coalition of how we use aid, _ this be a coalition of how we use aid, and — this be a coalition of how we use aid, and how— this be a coalition of how we use aid, and how we _ this be a coalition of how we use aid, and how we allow— this be a coalition of how we use aid, and how we allow the - this be a coalition of how we use. aid, and how we allow the taliban access— aid, and how we allow the taliban access to — aid, and how we allow the taliban access to the _ aid, and how we allow the taliban access to the world _ aid, and how we allow the taliban access to the world bank- aid, and how we allow the taliban access to the world bank and - aid, and how we allow the taliban access to the world bank and the| access to the world bank and the rest, _ access to the world bank and the rest, or— access to the world bank and the rest, or is— access to the world bank and the rest, or is it _ access to the world bank and the rest, or is it going _ access to the world bank and the rest, or is it going to _ access to the world bank and the rest, or is it going to be - access to the world bank and the i rest, or is it going to be something the uk _ rest, or is it going to be something the uk will— rest, or is it going to be something the uk will do _ rest, or is it going to be something the uk will do unilaterally, - rest, or is it going to be something the uk will do unilaterally, and - rest, or is it going to be something the uk will do unilaterally, and if. the uk will do unilaterally, and if necessary. — the uk will do unilaterally, and if necessary, well— the uk will do unilaterally, and if necessary, well we _ the uk will do unilaterally, and if necessary, well we an _ the uk will do unilaterally, and if necessary, well we an do - the uk will do unilaterally, and if necessary, well we an do we - the uk will do unilaterally, and if. necessary, well we an do we have the uk will do unilaterally, and if- necessary, well we an do we have the capacity— necessary, well we an do we have the capacity to _ necessary, well we an do we have the capacity to do — necessary, well we an do we have the capacity to do that? _ necessary, well we an do we have the capacity to do that? we _ necessary, well we an do we have the capacity to do that?— capacity to do that? we believe in -la in: a capacity to do that? we believe in playing a role. — capacity to do that? we believe in playing a role. a _ capacity to do that? we believe in playing a role, a leading - capacity to do that? we believe in playing a role, a leading role. - playing a role, a leading role. that's why we announced the resettlement scheme, it is why we have done what we have done to double to over £286 million this year. but crucially britain can't deal with the humanitarian situation, certainly not the refugee crisis alone, so what you hope to do is lead by example and galvanise others, and that is why the g7 has been important, why the g7, the qataris, turkey, the nato secretary general is important. that's why we have circulated the g7 paper, which is articulating these things, because we do need a security mindful response but also a humanitarian response. i think, mindful response but also a humanitarian response. ithink, but it will be stepping stones towards
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this, because of the tensions between many of the regional partners, that we need a contact group, an international contact group. there has been contact groups before, in yugoslavia and other countries, and what you need is to get the membership there, the key regional players that are influential in the taliban, i think the key western but also the gulf countries, which will provide support, would not want to see afghanistan disintegrate, that is the way again as i say to deal with the way again as i say to deal with the problem but also exercise that maximum moderating influence on the taliban. so the answer to your question will be the group of countries required to fix the situation now be different in its constellation than the nato alliance before? almost undoubtedly it will need to bring in a wider group of factors. ., ., ~' need to bring in a wider group of factors. ., ., ~ . ,, . factors. looking at the us are tellin: factors. looking at the us are telling out — factors. looking at the us are telling out in _ factors. looking at the us are telling out in the _ factors. looking at the us are telling out in the way - factors. looking at the us are telling out in the way they - factors. looking at the us are | telling out in the way they did, factors. looking at the us are - telling out in the way they did, and we can— telling out in the way they did, and we can talk— telling out in the way they did, and we can talk about _ telling out in the way they did, and we can talk about that _ telling out in the way they did, and we can talk about that all- telling out in the way they did, and we can talk about that all day- telling out in the way they did, and we can talk about that all day long | we can talk about that all day long about _ we can talk about that all day long about whether _ we can talk about that all day long about whether we _ we can talk about that all day long about whether we thought - we can talk about that all day long about whether we thought that - we can talk about that all day long. about whether we thought that was the right— about whether we thought that was the right thing _ about whether we thought that was the right thing to _ about whether we thought that was the right thing to do, _ about whether we thought that was the right thing to do, do _ about whether we thought that was the right thing to do, do you - about whether we thought that was the right thing to do, do you see i the right thing to do, do you see those _ the right thing to do, do you see those as— the right thing to do, do you see those as being _ the right thing to do, do you see those as being instrumental- the right thing to do, do you see those as being instrumental in l
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those as being instrumental in whatever— those as being instrumental in whatever we _ those as being instrumental in whatever we decide _ those as being instrumental in whatever we decide going - those as being instrumental in - whatever we decide going forward, by way of— whatever we decide going forward, by way of using _ whatever we decide going forward, by way of using these _ whatever we decide going forward, by way of using these leavers _ whatever we decide going forward, by way of using these leavers to - whatever we decide going forward, by way of using these leavers to get - way of using these leavers to get the taliban— way of using these leavers to get the taliban to _ way of using these leavers to get the taliban to behave _ way of using these leavers to get the taliban to behave in- way of using these leavers to get the taliban to behave in the - way of using these leavers to get the taliban to behave in the way| way of using these leavers to get. the taliban to behave in the way we would _ the taliban to behave in the way we would like. — the taliban to behave in the way we would like, and _ the taliban to behave in the way we would like, and if— the taliban to behave in the way we would like, and if they— the taliban to behave in the way we would like, and if they don't, - the taliban to behave in the way we would like, and if they don't, do- the taliban to behave in the way we would like, and if they don't, do wej would like, and if they don't, do we see any— would like, and if they don't, do we see any external, _ would like, and if they don't, do we see any external, others, _ would like, and if they don't, do we see any external, others, like - see any external, others, like russia — see any external, others, like russia or— see any external, others, like russia or china, _ see any external, others, like russia or china, making - see any external, others, like russia or china, making that. see any external, others, like - russia or china, making that more difficult _ russia or china, making that more difficult for — russia or china, making that more difficult for us? _ russia or china, making that more difficult for us? we _ russia or china, making that more difficult for us? we could - russia or china, making that more difficult for us? we could all- russia or china, making that more difficult for us? we could all be . difficult for us? we could all be throwing — difficult for us? we could all be throwing our— difficult for us? we could all be throwing our aid _ difficult for us? we could all be throwing our aid around - difficult for us? we could all be throwing our aid around but - difficult for us? we could all be. throwing our aid around but who difficult for us? we could all be i throwing our aid around but who is going _ throwing our aid around but who is going to _ throwing our aid around but who is going to get — throwing our aid around but who is going to get the _ throwing our aid around but who is going to get the best _ throwing our aid around but who is going to get the best bang - throwing our aid around but who is going to get the best bang for- throwing our aid around but who is. going to get the best bang for buck, and i going to get the best bang for buck, and i don't _ going to get the best bang for buck, and i don't think— going to get the best bang for buck, and i don't think —— _ going to get the best bang for buck, and i don't think —— i— going to get the best bang for buck, and i don't think —— i don't- going to get the best bang for buck, and i don't think —— i don't mean- and i don't think —— i don't mean looking — and i don't think —— i don't mean looking after— and i don't think —— i don't mean looking after people, _ and i don't think —— i don't mean looking after people, that - and i don't think —— i don't mean looking after people, that is - and i don't think —— i don't mean looking after people, that is a i looking after people, that is a given. — looking after people, that is a given. i— looking after people, that is a given. ithink— looking after people, that is a given, i think whether- looking after people, that is a given, i think whether we - looking after people, that is a . given, i think whether we invest looking after people, that is a - given, i think whether we invest in a government. _ given, i think whether we invest in a government, which— given, i think whether we invest in a government, which is— given, i think whether we invest in a government, which is the - given, i think whether we invest in. a government, which is the taliban, that we _ a government, which is the taliban, that we disagree _ a government, which is the taliban, that we disagree with, _ a government, which is the taliban, that we disagree with, and - a government, which is the taliban, that we disagree with, and get - that we disagree with, and get things— that we disagree with, and get things to — that we disagree with, and get things to do _ that we disagree with, and get things to do the _ that we disagree with, and get things to do the way _ that we disagree with, and get things to do the way we - that we disagree with, and get things to do the way we want i that we disagree with, and get - things to do the way we want them to? ~ .. ., ~' things to do the way we want them to? ~ .,, ., ~ , to? most of the like-minded g7 countries if _ to? most of the like-minded g7 countries if not _ to? most of the like-minded g7 countries if not all _ to? most of the like-minded g7 countries if not all have - to? most of the like-minded g7 countries if not all have set - to? most of the like-minded g7 countries if not all have set the | countries if not all have set the same. what we will do is test them and judge them by how they respond. i think we will need a much broader caucus of countries involved in trying to resolve this. the united states is going to remain engaged and responsible for what happens next and of course we're going to work very closely with them. fin
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next and of course we're going to work very closely with them. on that specifically. — work very closely with them. on that specifically. we _ work very closely with them. on that specifically, we talk _ work very closely with them. on that specifically, we talk about _ work very closely with them. on that specifically, we talk about the - work very closely with them. on that specifically, we talk about the us - specifically, we talk about the us as our— specifically, we talk about the us as our closest allies, but they didn't— as our closest allies, but they didn't talk to you about the closing of the _ didn't talk to you about the closing of the airport, and they refused a british— of the airport, and they refused a british request for an extension in kabul~ _ british request for an extension in kabul~ in — british request for an extension in kabul. in much the government was talking _ kabul. in much the government was talking about an alternative alliance _ talking about an alternative alliance to extend time if needed for the _ alliance to extend time if needed for the evacuation. instead 9000 were _ for the evacuation. instead 9000 were left— for the evacuation. instead 9000 were left behind because there was no alliance — were left behind because there was no alliance formed. so why was global— no alliance formed. so why was global britain so isolated compared to the _ global britain so isolated compared to the great britain under margaret thatcher— to the great britain under margaret thatcher or tony blair? | to the great britain under margaret thatcher or tony blair?— thatcher or tony blair? i don't think we were _ thatcher or tony blair? i don't think we were alone _ thatcher or tony blair? i don't think we were alone in - thatcher or tony blair? i don't think we were alone in trying i thatcher or tony blair? i don't. think we were alone in trying to thatcher or tony blair? i don't - think we were alone in trying to see what flexibility there was to extend the window with the united states. and it didn't happen. ihla the window with the united states. and it didn't happen.— and it didn't happen. no about the uk was not — and it didn't happen. no about the uk was not alone _ and it didn't happen. no about the uk was not alone in _ and it didn't happen. no about the uk was not alone in pressing - and it didn't happen. no about the | uk was not alone in pressing those issues. the reality with all the hyperbole you are deploying, what we have to do is face the reality. i thought there was too much wishful thinking about the consensus in us politics across the aisle is about what they were actually going to do.
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the debate around forever war is i thought was quite clear, where it was going to end up on how much was going to change under the new administration, and we needed to be mindful of that because the consensus in the us has shifted on that. it reflects a broad political and an opening that the public view of those conflicts. that doesn't mean it is a reflection frankly in the politics in the us. we still believe on being an open, outward, international as country and i think the us does as well. i think there is a much bigger question around effectively nation—building in such inhospitable climates. i'm not saying we shouldn't want and promote liberal democracy and values around the world, i think we should. but it comes to the point about reconciling ends with the means, and i think if we look back at the 20 year period of afghanistan, 2001 to 2021, that
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will be an important question for us to answer ourselves. {cf} will be an important question for us to answer ourselves.— will be an important question for us to answer ourselves. 40 billion, the cost to the — to answer ourselves. 40 billion, the cost to the uk. _ to answer ourselves. 40 billion, the cost to the uk, 2.2 _ to answer ourselves. 40 billion, the cost to the uk, 2.2 5 _ to answer ourselves. 40 billion, the cost to the uk, 2.2 5 trillion, - to answer ourselves. 40 billion, the cost to the uk, 2.2 5 trillion, the - cost to the uk, 2.2 5 trillion, the cost to the uk, 2.2 5 trillion, the cost to the us, hundreds of thousands of lives lost, 18.4 million people, including 10 million children requiring humanitarian aid, 18 months we had to prepare for our exit. itjust doesn't seem credible. i have listened carefully, in terms of the chaos that is on the ground, the chaos that there was, itjust doesn't seem credible that you were missing in action. are you the person to take us forward, and will you now again consider your position? i you now again consider your position?— you now again consider your osition? , . , , ., ., position? i understand why you would want to use this _ position? i understand why you would want to use this committee _ position? i understand why you would want to use this committee to - position? i understand why you would j want to use this committee to engage in the politics of this. we are very clear about the plan forward. i have
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talked it through in some detail. it involves dealing with safe passage for those who have been left behind in afghanistan, it involves the international strategy around counterterrorism, humanitarian relief, the regional stability that we need. i think there are lots of lessons to be learned, from how we were caught out by the speed and the scale of the fall of kabul, but, claudia, from the uk, the us, through nato allies and indeed the taliban and many ordinary afghanistan is themselves were surprised by the pace of events. of course we need to learn lessons about that, but i don't think it is right and accurate to suggest that the uk was alone in thinking it would take longer, and it would be more incremental, in terms of the deterioration of the situation, and the consolidation of control by the taliban. ., ~' ., the consolidation of control by the taliban. ., ~ ., . . taliban. you know france started their evacuation _
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taliban. you know france started their evacuation way _ taliban. you know france started their evacuation way back - taliban. you know france started their evacuation way back in - taliban. you know france started l their evacuation way back in may... claudia, this isjust nonsense. you arejust claudia, this isjust nonsense. you are just not comparing like for like. in are just not comparing like for like. . are just not comparing like for like. , ., . ., . like. in terms of commune, we have had 40 years — like. in terms of commune, we have had 40 years of— like. in terms of commune, we have had 40 years of western _ had 40 years of western intervention, intervention, in afghanistan, to stabilising afghanistan, to stabilising afghanistan and the entire region, in effect laying the way, if you like, for civil wars. what is your understanding of civil wars in afghanistan, and what would be your approach? i afghanistan, and what would be your a- roach? . , ., �* afghanistan, and what would be your a- roach? . , . �* ., approach? i am sure that -- i'm not sure that 40 — approach? i am sure that -- i'm not sure that 40 years _ approach? i am sure that -- i'm not sure that 40 years was _ approach? i am sure that -- i'm not sure that 40 years was all _ approach? i am sure that -- i'm not sure that 40 years was all western, j sure that 40 years was all western, i think the russians were in there before, claudia, but clearly there are lessons to be learned about the ability and the way in which a campaign primarily focused on counterterrorism morphed. we don't want to give up our ideals, our
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ambition, ourattachment to want to give up our ideals, our ambition, our attachment to liberal democracy and open societies, but we do need, as tom has mentioned and i have picked up on a couple of times now, to reconcile our ends with our means to deliver them, particularly of course in a wider global context where power has become more widely dispersed with the rise of the east. two parts, firstly in the 18 months when the trump administration took to the taliban behind the backs of the afghan government and indeed not really talking to us and being very clear to us, was the more that we could have been doing to show perceptions of understanding in the us? because as the chairman has said... is not seen if form of war, these are not enduring commitments. why was afghanistan not seen as an enduring commitment in these recent months? could that be linked to the debate? link to that, can we still trust the us is a global partner? i
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trust the us is a global partner? i talked through the backchat we had and just to say we were looking at this very insidiously and we were looking at the contacts i had in the biden administration. we were doing exactly the same with president trump with my opposite number, mike pompeo, previously. so i think we have got to recognise that the support domestically in the us for those kind of interventions has clearly fallen away and i am not sure i agree, bob, but i suspect you're not... for saying that the analogies for those long—standing. .. effectively some of those peacekeeping operations, compared to what has been happening in afghanistan. so there is a question of what are parties, our public will be willing to support. i have absolutely no doubt that for all the criticism of the us over this and indeed the uk, that the us will bounce back. it is indispensable and we work with it closely, notjust on
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the evacuation, where the coordination was very strong on the ground stop i spoke to tony blair and can right the way through, bilaterally —— to antony blinken right the way through, bilaterally with those g7 calls, and we learned those lessons together, but as we set out in the gr, america is our closest ally, but we are also looking as we have been for some time at the agile clusters of other countries we can operate with, whether diplomatically or in other contexts. it is probably not for today, but i can give the examples... today, but i can give the examples. . .— today, but i can give the examples... today, but i can give the examles... ., . . examples... forgive me, and i am sure we will— examples... forgive me, and i am sure we will come _ examples... forgive me, and i am sure we will come to _ examples... forgive me, and i am sure we will come to it _ examples... forgive me, and i am sure we will come to it in - examples... forgive me, and i am sure we will come to it in due - sure we will come to it in due course. it is, however, quite striking that this major decision did happen without as much warning as i know many of us would have wished. can ijust? there are a few clearer points, but i'm going to come to a very specific point. those who applied under the fcdo scheme... those who applied under protection
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under the lever the entry outside the walls, the one that the fcdo managed, you will be aware forgive me if this is entirely personal, but as you know i do have a very personal interest here, as under the four years that i served in afghanistan i employed at various different points interpreters and one of them who worked for me applied under that scheme and he had to apply on the 13th, the 14th, the 16th, the 15th, the 20th, the 2ist, the 22nd at the 24th until he was finally confirmed on the 25th. when he finally didn't get through to kabul airport, he finally didn't get through to kabulairport, he he finally didn't get through to kabul airport, he managed to make it to a border. you will forgive me for not identifying where at this point. and he has been struggling to have that permit, as it were, that agreement ratified for his onward travel to this next country. could you just confirm that anybody who applied it was accepted under a leave of entry outside the walls
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will have their permission is guaranteed?— will have their permission is auaranteed? , ., . guaranteed? first of all, as you know, i guaranteed? first of all, as you know. i am _ guaranteed? first of all, as you know. i am very _ guaranteed? first of all, as you know, i am very familiar- guaranteed? first of all, as you know, i am very familiar with i guaranteed? first of all, as you i know, i am very familiar with your case. i know, i am very familiar with your case. ~ ., , ., know, i am very familiar with your case. ~ ., ,~. . know, i am very familiar with your case. ~ ., . . �* , case. i know you are, and i'm very crateful case. i know you are, and i'm very grateful to — case. i know you are, and i'm very grateful to your — case. i know you are, and i'm very grateful to your team. _ case. i know you are, and i'm very grateful to your team. we - case. i know you are, and i'm very grateful to your team. we have i case. i know you are, and i'm very i grateful to your team. we have done eve hint grateful to your team. we have done everything we _ grateful to your team. we have done everything we can- — grateful to your team. we have done everything we can. the _ grateful to your team. we have done everything we can. the challenge - grateful to your team. we have done everything we can. the challenge forj everything we can. the challenge for all of these cases is any third country that is going to want to be willing to process... several ones i have spoken to are going to want to know that there is an absolute undertaking to take the individuals and so they will take them, we identify them and then we will process them and bring them home. i think there is a very real question, beyond the question of strictly uk nationals, where of course we are duty bound to take them home, but there is a question of security checks and how we will operate at. so forgive me while we work through the details. i have been talking to the details. i have been talking to the defence secretary at the home secretary about this and we are working through the details. we want to come up with a workable situation... let mejust, and they come back. we want to come up with a workable situation where we can give
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effect to all the undertakings we have made, but at the same time i think rightly be very careful that we don't end up allowing people back to the uk that might pose a threat. i understand all of that, foreign secretary, it isjust i understand all of that, foreign secretary, it is just that had he managed to get onto the aeroplane on the 25th of august, and it is nobody�*s fault and certainly not yours that he didn't manage to make it through the crowds, but had he made it onto the air head on the 25th of august he would probably be in the uk on the 26. because he finds himself caught on the border and unable to pass through one week later. it isjust and unable to pass through one week later. it is just slightly incongruous that he could have got a direct flight, but he can't get an indirect one because the terms of the deal seem to have changed in the last five days. i am sure that is a bureaucratic issue rather than a policy change and i wonder if you could clarify that?— could clarify that? again, forgive me for not _ could clarify that? again, forgive me for not delving _ could clarify that? again, forgive me for not delving into - could clarify that? again, forgive me for not delving into the - me for not delving into the individual case for the reasons you have indicated, but i don't think it isjust a have indicated, but i don't think it is just a bureaucratic issue. the question is how we can make sure we have proper assurances around
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security checks. have proper assurances around security checks-— have proper assurances around security checks. have proper assurances around securi checks. ., , . . security checks. you must have had them before — security checks. you must have had them before you _ security checks. you must have had them before you give _ security checks. you must have had them before you give permission i security checks. you must have had | them before you give permission on them before you give permission on the 27, jolly? them before you give permission on the 27. jolly?— the 27, jolly? these are issues we are working _ the 27, jolly? these are issues we are working through, _ the 27, jolly? these are issues we are working through, so _ the 27, jolly? these are issues we are working through, so we - the 27, jolly? these are issues we are working through, so we want i the 27, jolly? these are issues we i are working through, so we want to be able to do this in a workable and secure way. i think people would look back at all of the pressures that you rightly press and i will keep a very close eye on what we will do in this individual case and others. i think... will do in this individual case and others. ithink... we will do in this individual case and others. i think... we will be facing a whole different range of questions, of course, tom, if we didn't make sure that we were careful around the security checks of those coming in. i careful around the security checks of those coming in.— of those coming in. i completely acce -t of those coming in. i completely accept that. _ of those coming in. i completely accept that, foreign _ accept that, foreign secretary, and i am sure people would be concerned if they felt we were being cavalier on the 25th, but were stricter on the first, for example, so i would just be grateful if you could clarify that. may i ask as well, there are many people and it was reported that many people who wrote on the afghan special cases e—mail to the fcdo may or may not have been opened. anybody who has filed an application under leave of entry outside the rules is the foreign office going to accept that or must
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they resubmit? so office going to accept that or must they resubmit?— office going to accept that or must they resubmit? so on the e-mails, and i they resubmit? so on the e-mails, and i have — they resubmit? so on the e-mails, and i have gone — they resubmit? so on the e-mails, and i have gone through _ they resubmit? so on the e-mails, and i have gone through that, - they resubmit? so on the e-mails, and i have gone through that, we i they resubmit? so on the e-mails, l and i have gone through that, we are triaging them to the various different schemes and we will get back and make sure that... my commitment is to make sure that we send a reply to all of these e—mails, certainly that were received by the 31st of august, because there are of course we want, all the time, by close of play on the 6th of september. we will have written a reply to all those e—mails on the 31st of august by the 6th of september and then we will give permission to signpost to the best advice we can give them, in terms of the new face and access third countries. the new face and access third countries-— the new face and access third countries. �* , . countries. and they will fruit still be three categories, _ countries. and they will fruit still be three categories, the - countries. and they will fruit still be three categories, the home i countries. and they will fruit still - be three categories, the home office category for british nationals, the leave of entry outside the rules for the foreign office and arap under the foreign office and arap under the ministry of ten of the fence, correct? ., , , correct? the lever outside the rules will transition _ correct? the lever outside the rules will transition into _ correct? the lever outside the rules will transition into the _ correct? the lever outside the rules will transition into the broader- will transition into the broader resettlement criteria, which obviously based on objective criteria around asylum, but of
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course we are looking very carefully at those cases. particularly the cases that were called forward. 50 cases that were called forward. sr anybody who was called forward may or may not still have permission to come to the uk extant, depending on the... tide come to the uk extant, depending on the... ~ . ., . ~ come to the uk extant, depending on the... ~ . ., , come to the uk extant, depending on the... ~ . ., . ~ , . . the... we want to make sure that all those who are _ the... we want to make sure that all those who are called _ the... we want to make sure that all those who are called forward... - the. .. we want to make sure that all those who are called forward... i - those who are called forward... 1 accept you want to make it, but those who are called forward... i accept you want to make it, but are they currently still able to travel or is that now expired?- or is that now expired? well, in terms of able _ or is that now expired? well, in terms of able to _ or is that now expired? well, in terms of able to travel, - or is that now expired? well, in terms of able to travel, that - or is that now expired? well, in | terms of able to travel, that will depend... lit terms of able to travel, that will depend- - -_ depend... if they make it to - pakistan or uzbekistan? the issue we have not to pakistan or uzbekistan? the issue we have got to reconcile _ pakistan or uzbekistan? the issue we have got to reconcile in _ pakistan or uzbekistan? the issue we have got to reconcile in relation - pakistan or uzbekistan? the issue we have got to reconcile in relation to . have got to reconcile in relation to non—uk nationals is... inaudible before individuals get to a third country where they will automatically be expected to come home. i think it's right we work through that.— home. i think it's right we work through that. and you mentioned e-mails to _ through that. and you mentioned e-mails to members _ through that. and you mentioned e-mails to members of _ through that. and you mentioned i e-mails to members of parliament. e—mails to members of parliament. there are many others, as you know, submitting e—mails in behalf of people, including aid agencies. will you make that clear commitment for them as well, responding to aid agencies in the same way you said you would respond to mps by the 6th
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of september? let you would respond to mps by the 6th of september?— you would respond to mps by the 6th of september? let me look at what we will do on that. _ of september? let me look at what we will do on that, we _ of september? let me look at what we will do on that, we want _ of september? let me look at what we will do on that, we want to _ of september? let me look at what we will do on that, we want to get - of september? let me look at what we will do on that, we want to get back. will do on that, we want to get back to everyone. the reason the backlog built up, by the way, is notjust the surge at the door in the narrow window. lots of mps quite rightly and others looking for multiple updates. we made a conscious decision, sol updates. we made a conscious decision, so i want to be honest about this, to say, ok, we can answer every e—mail that we get or we can focus resources on getting as many eligible people through kabul on two airflights, many eligible people through kabul on two air flights, filling capacity back home. and i think that was still the right choice, but of course, and i am very conscious of the need to give people updates, and then since signposting where to go next with the advice. we are committed to fulfilling the undertakings we have already made, but it is very difficult now, of course. i but it is very difficult now, of course. ., . ~ . . course. i thought that michael gove was chairing — course. i thought that michael gove was chairing a _ course. i thought that michael gove was chairing a group _ course. i thought that michael gove was chairing a group that _ course. i thought that michael gove was chairing a group that was - was chairing a group that was looking at the criteria, but we you seem to be announcing now that the criteria for the afghan resettlement
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scheme will be asylum. ihla. criteria for the afghan resettlement scheme will be asylum.— scheme will be asylum. no, that is not the case. _ scheme will be asylum. no, that is not the case, but _ scheme will be asylum. no, that is not the case, but they _ scheme will be asylum. no, that is not the case, but they are - scheme will be asylum. no, that is not the case, but they are not - scheme will be asylum. no, that is. not the case, but they are not going to be... i mean, they are going to bea to be... i mean, they are going to be a different set of cases from the arap workers and the nationals. the criteria, the truth is i am working that through with the home secretary, but of course we will want to work very closely with the un and other organisations because it is wider than just a question of the individuals who are currently, if you like, on the e—mails or the special cases or the current lot are... . special cases or the current lot are... , ., are... yes, not least because there is the hezara _ are... yes, not least because there is the hezara community. - are... yes, not least because there is the hezara community. and - are... yes, not least because there is the hezara community. and the i is the hezara community. and the lgbt community, _ is the hezara community. and the lgbt community, so _ is the hezara community. and the lgbt community, so we _ is the hezara community. and the lgbt community, so we still - is the hezara community. and the lgbt community, so we still need is the hezara community. and the i lgbt community, so we still need to look at this in the round. i lgbt community, so we still need to look at this in the round.— look at this in the round. i know, but i look at this in the round. i know, but i want _ look at this in the round. i know, but i want you — look at this in the round. i know, but i want you to _ look at this in the round. i know, but i want you to answer - look at this in the round. i know, but i want you to answer the - look at this in the round. i know, i but i want you to answer the point about the hezara community, is it your understanding... about the hezara community, is it yourunderstanding... i about the hezara community, is it your understanding... i know you won't want to use the word genocide, we have been round that many times, but the taliban have referred
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themselves to genocide against the hazara people. is that your assessment, is there a deliberate attempt by taliban to kill hazara? look, we are very anxious for their vulnerability. i am look, we are very anxious for their vulnerability. iam not look, we are very anxious for their vulnerability. i am not sure the evidence hits the tripwire for that yet, but of course as you know that becomes a bit of a distraction from the point of view of trying to provide protection for vulnerable people. of course we want to look at them and all the other ethnic minority groups, sikhs and others who are vulnerable at this point in time. it who are vulnerable at this point in time. . . who are vulnerable at this point in time. , , . . , time. it is 'ust that all the cases i sent time. it isjust that all the cases i sent through _ time. it isjust that all the cases i sent through come _ time. it isjust that all the cases i sent through come from - time. it isjust that all the cases i sent through come from that l i sent through come from that community and i know that... tide i sent through come from that community and i know that... community and i know that. .. we will take a look— community and i know that. .. we will take a look at — community and i know that. .. we will take a look at that _ community and i know that. .. we will take a look at that with _ community and i know that. .. we will take a look at that with care, - community and i know that. .. we will take a look at that with care, but - take a look at that with care, but thatis take a look at that with care, but that is all the more reason because there will be different people with different communities to look at this in the round, which is what we're doing. this in the round, which is what we're doing-— we're doing. ok, can i 'ust challenge i we're doing. ok, can i 'ust challenge you i we're doing. ok, can i 'ust challenge you on i we're doing. ok, can i 'ust challenge you on this h we're doing. ok, can ijust- challenge you on this question about phone numbers that have not worked because the number mps were given, you rang it, it rang for ages and ages, no one answered it and then eventually it said please send an e—mail to the following. when you sent an e—mail to that, it bounced with something that said, bring this
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phone number. bind with something that said, bring this phone number-— phone number. and i 'ust challenge that? phone number. and i 'ust challenge than because h phone number. and i 'ust challenge that? because i _ phone number. and i 'ust challenge that? because i knew]— phone number. and ijust challenge that? because i knew this - phone number. and ijust challenge that? because i knew this would . phone number. and ijust challenge that? because i knew this would be j that? because i knew this would be asked and i went and got the data and i will tell you what it is. between the 16th of august and the 26, the average waiting time to pick up 26, the average waiting time to pick up a call on the np hotline was under a minute. up a call on the np hotline was undera minute. forthe same up a call on the np hotline was under a minute. for the same period for the public mind is, it was... a range of between 40 seconds and three minutes 49 seconds, so if someone had a bad experience... i know, you said that in the chamber and i... iwould know, you said that in the chamber and i... i would ask you just to push back to officials on that because i am not... every mp i know has had the same experience of not being able to get a telephone... that is why i checked the data, chris, so i came equipped to give you the answer to your question and there transparently. let you the answer to your question and there transparently.— there transparently. let me do another one. _ there transparently. let me do another one, a _ there transparently. let me do another one, a swift _ there transparently. let me do another one, a swift run. - there transparently. let me do another one, a swift run. you. there transparently. let me do . another one, a swift run. you also have seen the newsnight report about embassy staff telling people to go to the abbey gate on the very day of the isis—k attack, when the military advice was not to go. the isis-k attack, when the military advice was not to go.—
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advice was not to go. yes, look... we changed _ advice was not to go. yes, look... we changed our— advice was not to go. yes, look... we changed our travel— advice was not to go. yes, look... we changed our travel advice - advice was not to go. yes, look... we changed our travel advice on i we changed our travel advice on afghanistan just after 10pm we changed our travel advice on afghanistanjust after 10pm on afghanistan just after 10pm on wednesday afghanistanjust after 10pm on wednesday the 25th of august, the night before the attack. at the same time, we stopped asking british nationals and afghan nationals, whether arap or not, do come to the airport. the military worked very hard to secure the area and we also shifted the civilian team from the abbey gate... sorry, the barents hotel, the processing hotel, through to the airport to protect them. we took all those mitigating measures, obviously in close consultation with the us. i saw that report on newsnight about the abbey gate, and i need to investigate it, but the general advice as opposed to individual advice, and if there was a lack we need to look at that. but ou will a lack we need to look at that. elf you will investigate annual combat was in that?— you will investigate annual combat was in that?_ i- was in that? absolutely,. i understand _ was in that? absolutely,. i understand in _ was in that? absolutely,. i understand in a _ was in that? absolutely,. i understand in a chaotic - understand in a chaotic circumstances it can be though difficult, but can i put one last thing too, which as you understand what it is like working in... and
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how ambassadors report back and it all gets melded into one advice. can ijust suggest to all gets melded into one advice. can i just suggest to you that sometimes there is a danger in the office of groupthink? i know you are aware of this because you have often referred to it yourself and i just wonder whether sometimes you wouldn't have been better advised over the last few months to pick up the phone to the person on the ground more often. well, let me answer that. first of all, we don'tjust mould it into some homogenous product. we have ambassadors on those meetings, virtually, testing it. i do it all the time. i have done it over the last 48 hours. equally, we have got to use effective use of time resource, given that... and i come back to the point i made earlier. afghanistan is the issue that has clearly caught us unawares in terms of the pace and scale of the taliban... control, in a position of
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control. but there are a whole range of other issues we are dealing with. i know, but if you don't learn from this situation about how to challenge and get better intelligence and information back, we will do it again and we will capitulate again and we will drag the british through the mud again! to things, one. no one in the fcdo thinks i don't challenge official advice vigorously. i do. if anything, i get accused of, you know, of being over inquisitorial, but i do think it is important and indeed the foreign office as an institution was tested and we did across government. that is not to say there are not lessons to be learned, but you have also got to look at the caricature of critique against me is that i am either lazy and delegating too much or a control freak. the truth is you need to exercise grip, but you also need to be willing to delegate. if you don't do that, you will never take decisions and you will also never
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engage with the international interlocutors, who need influence. l interlocutors, who need influence. 1 take your point, we are going to move on very briefly. claudia and alicia. , . move on very briefly. claudia and alicia. , , ., move on very briefly. claudia and alicia. . , ., , , move on very briefly. claudia and alicia. . , ., ,, ., move on very briefly. claudia and alicia. , ., ,, ., . alicia. just on the issue of aid, and aid charities _ alicia. just on the issue of aid, and aid charities and _ alicia. just on the issue of aid, - and aid charities and humanitarian aid, and aid charities and humanitarian aid. i_ and aid charities and humanitarian aid. ii'ust— and aid charities and humanitarian aid, ijust wondered what humanitarian aid and charity organisations are you aware of on the ground — organisations are you aware of on the ground and your officers on the ground _ the ground and your officers on the ground are — the ground and your officers on the ground are aware of in terms of engaging— ground are aware of in terms of engaging with them? sol ground are aware of in terms of engaging with them? so i spoke to the un secretary _ engaging with them? so i spoke to the un secretary general's - engaging with them? so i spoke to the un secretary general's special| the un secretary general's special envoy for afghanistan. clearly the situation for most is very precarious indeed, if they can still operate at all. so we are worried about that. operate at all. so we are worried about that-— operate at all. so we are worried about that. , ., , . about that. the question is, which ones have your — about that. the question is, which ones have your office _ about that. the question is, which ones have your office or _ about that. the question is, which ones have your office or you - about that. the question is, which ones have your office or you been| ones have your office or you been engaged — ones have your office or you been engaged with on the ground? and if you haven't — engaged with on the ground? and if you haven't got that list, you need to provide — you haven't got that list, you need to provide that. we you haven't got that list, you need to provide that.— to provide that. we will provide it, es. ok, to provide that. we will provide it, yes- 0k. and _ to provide that. we will provide it, yes- 0k. andjust _ to provide that. we will provide it, yes. ok, and just very _ to provide that. we will provide it, yes. ok, and just very quickly, - to provide that. we will provide it, yes. ok, and just very quickly, on| yes. ok, and 'ust very quickly, on the issue yes. ok, and 'ust very quickly, on the ef— yes. ok, andjust very quickly, on the issue of inclusivity _ yes. ok, andjust very quickly, on the issue of inclusivity and - yes. ok, andjust very quickly, on the issue of inclusivity and the - the issue of inclusivity and the issue — the issue of inclusivity and the issue of— the issue of inclusivity and the issue of minorities, what work is
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being _ issue of minorities, what work is being done — issue of minorities, what work is being done with the un to create safe zones within afghanistan for religious— safe zones within afghanistan for religious minorities, for lesbian, gay. _ religious minorities, for lesbian, gay, bisexual plus others, communities? what is being done to keep people safe? we already know that inclusivity, as far as the taliban— that inclusivity, as far as the taliban government is concerned, will include those groups.- will include those groups. look, i totally share _ will include those groups. look, i totally share your _ will include those groups. look, i totally share your concerns, - totally share your concerns, claudia, but if you are talking about safe zones or no—fly zones, that would require military enforcement and clearly that is not something that is being proposed right now. it is very difficult to see how what you are quite understandably proposing would be workable in the absence of political commitment to and i don't see that there is support for it at the moment. its. there is support for it at the moment-— there is support for it at the moment. �* , . , i] moment. a little, very briefly. i think the entire _ moment. a little, very briefly. i think the entire committee - moment. a little, very briefly. i i think the entire committee wants moment. a little, very briefly. i - think the entire committee wants to .ive think the entire committee wants to give their— think the entire committee wants to give their heartfelt _ think the entire committee wants to give their heartfelt gratitude - think the entire committee wants to give their heartfelt gratitude to - give their heartfelt gratitude to all the — give their heartfelt gratitude to all the support— give their heartfelt gratitude to all the support staff, _ give their heartfelt gratitude to all the support staff, the - all the support staff, the neighbouring _ all the support staff, the neighbouring post, - all the support staff, the neighbouring post, the l all the support staff, the - neighbouring post, the crisis centre — neighbouring post, the crisis centre can— neighbouring post, the crisis centre. can you _ neighbouring post, the crisis centre. can you give - neighbouring post, the crisis centre. can you give us - neighbouring post, the crisis- centre. can you give us reassurances that sufficient —
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centre. can you give us reassurances that sufficient mental— centre. can you give us reassurances that sufficient mental health - centre. can you give us reassurances that sufficient mental health and - that sufficient mental health and trauma _ that sufficient mental health and trauma low—calorie _ that sufficient mental health and trauma low—calorie services- that sufficient mental health and | trauma low—calorie services have been _ trauma low—calorie services have been provided _ trauma low—calorie services have been provided to _ trauma low—calorie services have been provided to them _ trauma low—calorie services have been provided to them and - trauma low—calorie services have been provided to them and that i trauma low—calorie services have - been provided to them and that when their military — been provided to them and that when their military colleagues _ been provided to them and that when their military colleagues have - been provided to them and that when their military colleagues have been i their military colleagues have been recognised — their military colleagues have been recognised we _ their military colleagues have been recognised we will— their military colleagues have been recognised we will also _ their military colleagues have been recognised we will also recognise l recognised we will also recognise those _ recognised we will also recognise those civilians _ recognised we will also recognise those civilians who _ recognised we will also recognise those civilians who did _ recognised we will also recognise those civilians who did so - recognised we will also recognise those civilians who did so much l recognised we will also recognisei those civilians who did so much to save _ those civilians who did so much to save lives? — those civilians who did so much to save lives? it— those civilians who did so much to save lives?— save lives? it is a really important -oint, save lives? it is a really important point. alicia. _ save lives? it is a really important point, alicia, and _ save lives? it is a really important point, alicia, and not— save lives? it is a really important point, alicia, and notjust - save lives? it is a really important point, alicia, and notjust those i point, alicia, and notjust those who worked in kabul. laurie bristow and i'm sure the committee would agree did an incrediblejob under the most extraordinary pressure, but also the people who manned the crisis centre. that was gruelling and of course making some of those decisions is very difficult. but you have got to make the decisions to get the maximum number of people onto the capacity that we have. but your broad point is very well made and we are already doing everything we can, both on the welfare side, but also on the recognition site. thank you very much indeed, foreign secretary. we are very grateful that you overstayed and helped us so much with our enquiry. this is clearly going to be an ongoing challenging question for all of us and we will be very grateful if you can come back to us very soon for a follow—up hearing because this is going to be the single biggest challenge that i
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suspect the uk deals with in terms of redefining our foreign suspect the uk deals with in terms of redefining ourforeign policy. i stand by the view that this is the single biggest foreign policy disaster uk has faced since the suez canal in the sense that it has exposed a weakness in our alliances and in our stance. exposed a weakness in our alliances and in ourstance. i exposed a weakness in our alliances and in our stance. i would exposed a weakness in our alliances and in our stance. iwould be exposed a weakness in our alliances and in our stance. i would be very interested in hearing when you have time to actually process it and not just firefight your own views on how this will change how we do foreign policy. ! this will change how we do foreign -oli . ., , this will change how we do foreign -oli . . , this will change how we do foreign oli . ., , this will change how we do foreign -oli . . , policy. i am very happy to come back to the committee, _ policy. i am very happy to come back to the committee, thank— policy. i am very happy to come back to the committee, thank you - policy. i am very happy to come back to the committee, thank you for - policy. i am very happy to come back to the committee, thank you for the | to the committee, thank you for the rigorous engagement, it is very important also to get a factual account. i am afraid i struggle with the suez analogy, but i understand what you are really searching for is to learn the lessons and even more importantly find a path forward for afghanistan more generally. thank ou ve afghanistan more generally. thank you very much- _ afghanistan more generally. thank you very much. on _ afghanistan more generally. thank you very much. on that _ afghanistan more generally. thank you very much. on that basis, - afghanistan more generally. thane you very much. on that basis, order, order. ., . . . �* �* , order. you are watching bbc news. that was the _ order. you are watching bbc news. that was the hearing _ order. you are watching bbc news. that was the hearing of _ order. you are watching bbc news. that was the hearing of the - order. you are watching bbc news. that was the hearing of the foreign affairs select committee quizzing foreign secretary dominic raab, who, as he revealed, will be heading to the region around afghanistan in the next few hours. already there is the
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german foreign minister who has been in pakistan today or yesterday and on monday, following visits to uzbekistan and other regional partners. some criticism of the committee. but here are some of what was said during the course of the enquiry, are at key points from our political correspond lone wells. what stood out for you? a above keeping scale, both looking at the past and also the future and what we are expecting now for the next couple of weeks. one of the key questions the mps were pushing the foreign secretary on was the intelligence and why it was that the uk was not prepared for the speed at which the taliban took over, the speed at which the afghan government collapsed and interestingly one thing we have learned from this is dominic raab stressed there that the intelligence was provided by the joint intelligence committee, but also bide military intelligence on the ground, he said, who gave them a central assessment is essentially saying they had depicted a steady deterioration of the situation after us troops withdrew, but also a
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prediction that kabul was not likely to fall this year, obviously something that was proved wrong when kabul did fall to the taliban. so interesting to learn that was the intelligence the uk was operating on. dominic raab also pushed heavily on. dominic raab also pushed heavily on when exactly he went on holiday. he refused to answer that question multiple times, much to the frustration of the mps who were grilling him on the very specific dates of that. obviously something he has faced a lot of scrutiny for any press as well, although he didn't commit to any specific answers on that, calling and accusing mps of going on a fishing expedition to try to get more detail from him. one is the key things that stood out on the future is what plans there are now to get out all those people who still remain, those brits and afghans are eligible for resettlement who haven't been evacuated yet from afghanistan. this was also claimed a point of tension between a number of mps and dominic raab, specifically because he could not give an exact figure for people looking for how many brits and eligible afghans are still out there. this has been a point of
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tension between mps and the foreign secretary for a while now, which was something the labour mp chris bryant went quite heavily on, citing the fact that every mp, in his words, had cases coming to their constituency offices saying they knew of people still stuck out there. this is something which dominic raab will be facing even more pressure on to provide those specific figures for how many people out there and how they are going to get them out. out there and how they are going to get them out-— get them out. lone wells at westminster, _ get them out. lone wells at westminster, thank - get them out. lone wells at westminster, thank you - get them out. lone wells at. westminster, thank you very get them out. lone wells at - westminster, thank you very much. dr patrick bury is a senior lecturer in security at the university of bath. he's also a former british army captain, and served in afghanistan. thank you very much for being with us, dr patrick bury, and indeed watching that exhaustive foreign affairs select committee appearance. one thing that we kept coming back to was this question of the intelligence basis on which, not just the british, but other countries with a presence in afghanistan were confident that there was still time before they would have to look at withdrawal. what is your take on that and what
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lessons there are that may have to be learnt from what was obviously a misapprehension of what the situation was on the ground? goad situation was on the ground? good afternoon. — situation was on the ground? good afternoon. and _ situation was on the ground? good afternoon, and yes, _ situation was on the ground? good afternoon, and yes, it _ situation was on the ground? good afternoon, and yes, it is _ situation was on the ground? good afternoon, and yes, it is a - situation was on the ground? (ems afternoon, and yes, it is a good question. i think what secretary dominic raab is talking about was that the centralised assessment of the joint intelligence committee and that basically takes in... the way it usually works it takes in all the government intelligence and then produces a collaborative, collective assessment of basically the most likely course of action with a high level of confidence, which we have seen a number of different scenarios, and then maybe the worst case scenario and course of action that could happen. and that system, which the british run, has its strengths and also has some weaknesses and one of them is, i do saw it being alluded to, is that there can be a tendency in the british system towards groupthink, which is people, because they are assessing the intelligence together
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and creating it, there are a lot of tests you can put in to try to mitigate this, but that has been one of the criticisms about groupthink. what has been interesting about this failure, really, is that the us, which has traditionally had a much more competitive and sort of territorial intelligence system, bureaucratised where they are competing against each other, has also had the same problem. yes! and there was a — also had the same problem. yes! and there was a talk in one of the respondents was asking about the french example, and we have got less evidence so far about that, but it does seem that they moved some of their people out earlier and some of their people out earlier and some of their analysis was more pessimistic. so the lessons learned here really, if you look at the american example, from what we know we have seen the former counterterrorism chief for the region say that the cia was giving warnings, you know, and it did say, if the troops are reduced to this low level, the government could fall within a matter of days. you know? we think, or it seemed
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anyway potentially that there has been some more pessimistic assessments in the uk system as well. the problem is that they were not given what later turned out to be the respective weight, potentially, and also the resourcing that a worse course of action plan would require. then a worse course of action plan would also require a decision point skewed up, so if this happens, this happens. you know? what resource do we have? it seems there has been a problem there, across the us— uk spectrum. that across the us- uk spectrum. that obviously informs _ across the us— uk spectrum. that obviously informs that directly seems we saw at kabul airport, perhaps more chaotic than they might otherwise have been, although a certain amount of chaos was perhaps inevitable whenever it happened. the foreign secretary is saying they began evacuation planning injune, at that stage still confident there will probably months ahead before the potential collapse of the regime. but the presumption almost seems to have been built in that whoever you talk to, that the regime
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was going to collapse, that it wasn't going to be sustainable without the american presence. on that basis, do think an argument for saying they're actually all the focus should have been on that question at a much earlier stage? yes, i think that is it. you know, if the analysis and the secretary pointed out to this, which is either it was a taliban takeover or civil war, then... and that is, you know, moving towards your worst case scenario, it seems like, then you would have thought planning and resourcing for that would have happened front loaded and this would have been something that would have been done sooner. there have honestly been political considerations to take into account for this because if you start evacuating your embassy, etc, that signals to the afghan government and afghan people that you don't have confidence in them, so there is a fine balance to be struck, but it certainly does suggest that in terms of what the eventuality was... as he referred to it, this is a speed and scale problem, and that was not
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understood. the interesting point here is... l understood. the interesting point here is... ., understood. the interesting point hereis... . , . understood. the interesting point hereis... . . ., ., here is... i am sorry, we are out of time. i here is... i am sorry, we are out of time- i am — here is... i am sorry, we are out of time. i am really— here is... i am sorry, we are out of time. i am really sorry, _ here is... i am sorry, we are out of time. i am really sorry, it- here is... i am sorry, we are out of time. i am really sorry, it is- time. i am really sorry, it is partly because the committee went on about 25 minutes longer than we are expecting. dr patrick bury, a real pleasure to speak to you, i hope we can talk again. dr patrick bury there at the university of bath and time for a look at the weather, here is sarah keith lucas. looking pretty cloudy, some drizzle around the east, sometime around northern and western parts of the uk, full scotland, northern ireland and north and west of england some sunshine here, claudia further south and east across england and wales, that bees coming in across the north sea making things a bit chilly
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towards newcastle, norwich and making things breezy for the english channel. temperatures in the mid to high teens for most of us. later this evening and overnight we will continue to see that card because most areas filtering it's further westwards across parts of scotland, perhaps renting into northern ireland. still a few places going down into single figures overnight, but most of us overnight staying in double figures. tomorrow similar to today with high pressure in charge again, a lot of cloud around, a bit more extensive for northern ireland and southern scotland, but it will burn and break so some holes in their power during the afternoon. lifting temperatures in the woman's spots towards the west up to about 20 toa 20 to a 23 degrees, a bit cooler than an east coast where we have still got the breeze coming in of the north sea. here was the area of high pressure that has been with us for quite a while, it is sticking around as we head towards the end of the week,
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lots of cloud trapped underneath that area of high pressure, so a little bit gloomy as we head through the day on friday, similar to thursday. a bit of cloud around for most areas, some sunshine breaking through, perhaps a little bit more sunshine for southern england and again for southern and western scotland, north—west england and northern ireland. still about 14—18 down the east coast, against the warmest weather towards the west, with highs around 21 or 22 degrees. into the weekend now and high pressure still not far away, just starting to slip off towards the east. so, we'll start to see low pressure approaching from the west, but it looks like the high pressure in the east wins out. so, perhaps a few showers, particularly on sunday, for some western parts of the uk, but most of us staying dry and things turning a little bit warmer, too. bye for now.
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this is bbc news. the headlines — foreign secretary dominic raab has been facing questions from mps regarding his handling of the uk's withdrawal from afghanistan. mr raab refused to say if he'd already started his well—publicised holiday when the us had warned the taliban was likely to seize afghanistan. i have said that i wouldn't have gone away, with the benefit of hindsight, which is the luxury of... when did you go on holiday? l’m hindsight, which is the luxury of... when did you go on holiday? i'm not aeoin to when did you go on holiday? i'm not going to start- _ the taliban tell the bbc that their new government will be announced soon — and there'll be no women in senior roles. in this new government which has been announced, in the top posts — i mean to say, in the cabinet — there may not be women. new research suggests up to one in seven children who catch coronavirus may still suffer
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symptoms months after infection. nicola sturgeon announces plans to introduce vaccine passports for nightclubs and larger live events in scotland later this month. colin pitchfork, who raped and murdered two schoolgirls in the 1980s, has been released from prison. and the game—changing anti—cholesterol drug that could save 30,000 lives in a decade and may soon be offered on the nhs. we are going to cross to kabul now tojoin the bbc�*s we are going to cross to kabul now to join the bbc�*s chief international news correspondent leys doucet with the very latest
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from the afghan capital. the taliban called yesterday _ from the afghan capital. the taliban called yesterday independence - from the afghan capital. the taliban called yesterday independence day i called yesterday independence day once the last us soldier had left afghanistan, and now today, the second day in a country they now say is free of foreign occupation, they are sending a message that afghans and many around the world will soon know the details, the shape and character of the new taliban government. they have been having urgent consultations in the southern city of kandahar, regarded as the birthplace of the taliban decades ago. and here in kabul, and in cities and villages across afghanistan, afghans are awaiting to see what kind of government they will live under this time, and will it be different from the last time the taliban were in power? we will be discussing all this and more in this programme but first here are the latest developments from our south asian correspondent.
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a nation on the brink of a humanitarian disaster. now under taliban rule. a third of afghans don't know where their next meal will come from. the un said nearly half of the country needs help to survive. supporters of the taliban have been celebrating the departure of foreign forces. now the militants have to show how they will run the country. a senior representative in qatar told the bbc an announcement on a new government is expected in the next day or two. lh on a new government is expected in the next day or two.— the next day or two. in every department _ the next day or two. in every department of _ the next day or two. in every department of the _ the next day or two. in every i department of the government the next day or two. in every - department of the government and ministries, you can say almost half of the workers are women, so they can come back to their work and they can come back to their work and they can continue, but may be in this new government which has been announced, in the top posts, i mean to say in the cabinet, there may not be women. if women are excluded from top
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roles, there is concern that decades of progress could be undone. this woman is a formerjudge who fled afghanistan for london over a decade ago after the taliban tried to kill her. she says she doesn't think they have changed. l her. she says she doesn't think they have changed-— her. she says she doesn't think they have changed. i have experience with the taliban because _ have changed. i have experience with the taliban because i'm _ have changed. i have experience with the taliban because i'm here. - have changed. i have experience with the taliban because i'm here. i- have changed. i have experience with the taliban because i'm here. i know| the taliban because i'm here. i know who they— the taliban because i'm here. i know who they are, and the strategy of the taliban isjust against who they are, and the strategy of the taliban is just against the women — the taliban is just against the women i_ the taliban is just against the women. i don't know what's happened, what kind _ women. idon't know what's happened, what kind of— women. i don't know what's happened, what kind of religion, they want to 'ust what kind of religion, they want to just force — what kind of religion, they want to just force us, and why it was that retics— just force us, and why it was that relics of— just force us, and why it was that relics of a — just force us, and why it was that relics of a 20 year war left at kabul airport. the taliban claim it will reopen in a few days' time. it could give some hope for the brits and afghans who worked with them who are still left behind. this taxi driver from are still left behind. this taxi driverfrom liverpool are still left behind. this taxi driver from liverpool is one of those stranded. he told the bbc his family are now in hiding. hate those stranded. he told the bbc his family are now in hiding.— family are now in hiding. we can't aet out of family are now in hiding. we can't get out of the _ family are now in hiding. we can't get out of the house, _ family are now in hiding. we can't get out of the house, we - family are now in hiding. we can't get out of the house, we basically only can _ get out of the house, we basically only can you — get out of the house, we basically only can you go _ get out of the house, we basically only can you go maybe _ get out of the house, we basically only can you go maybe 20, - get out of the house, we basically only can you go maybe 20, 30 - get out of the house, we basically. only can you go maybe 20, 30 yards into a _ only can you go maybe 20, 30 yards
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into a shop. — only can you go maybe 20, 30 yards into a shop. a— only can you go maybe 20, 30 yards into a shop, a local— only can you go maybe 20, 30 yards into a shop, a local shop. _ only can you go maybe 20, 30 yards into a shop, a local shop. we - only can you go maybe 20, 30 yards into a shop, a local shop. we are i only can you go maybe 20, 30 yards into a shop, a local shop. we are in| into a shop, a local shop. we are in trouble _ into a shop, a local shop. we are in trouble. . . . trouble. some are leaving via the border with _ trouble. some are leaving via the border with pakistan. _ trouble. some are leaving via the border with pakistan. these - trouble. some are leaving via the i border with pakistan. these images show the desperate scenes last week. the uk government says it is in talks with taliban representatives in qatar to discuss how to help thoseit in qatar to discuss how to help those it promised it would. the focus in that _ those it promised it would. the: focus in that resolution is about preserving and recognising human rights and permitting safe passage through afghanistan for those who need to move country, and also to prevent terror. that must be the long—term aim of all of the international community with this. taliban militia patrolled the streets of kabul, one of the many signs of change. but how well life change for the people of afghanistan, who have lived through so many chapters of conflict and uncertainty? many thousands of afghans in recent
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weeks decided to flee the country, taking advantage of the opportunity provided by the military evacuation flights. now that they have ended, many more are still saying they don't believe it is safe to stay here and are hoping against hope that the western countries who had taken out so many other afghans will continue this evacuation process. willa continue this evacuation process. will a top female politician who stayed at least for some days after the taliban came to power decided it was time to go. she joins us the taliban came to power decided it was time to go. shejoins us now from doha in the gulf state of qatar. welcome to bbc news. why did you decide you had to go? well. qatar. welcome to bbc news. why did you decide you had to go?— you decide you had to go? well, you know that i — you decide you had to go? well, you know that i stayed _ you decide you had to go? well, you know that i stayed at _ you decide you had to go? well, you know that i stayed at least _ you decide you had to go? well, you know that i stayed at least four - know that i stayed at least four more than two weeks with the hope that we will engage and impact the situation to give people that are desperate, millions of them, men and women, some level of hope that there will be a government that will be representative, that will be
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inclusive. i have contacts with taliban who are in kabul. i tried to gather some women and meet them, but i have been receiving constantly messages and also signs that they are not going to include women, that they are not going to respect, and there were events, big events, that women supposed to be part of, but they were not, including big events around education. personally, although i was under an extreme a difficult situation, and you know that, i was moving from one place to the other for the past two weeks just to survive, also the taliban at my gate, but i still try to make some impact and make some change. i came to this realisation it is not going to be possible any more to do that from kabul. so i decided to come out and continue to do what i wanted to do in kabulfrom abroad but with the hope that i would return back soon.—
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but with the hope that i would return back soon. well, you have been negotiating _ return back soon. well, you have been negotiating with _ return back soon. well, you have been negotiating with taliban - been negotiating with taliban leaders in the political office of the taliban in qatar for almost a year now. you met some of them in kabul. what if they tell you because they are sending the message they want people to stay?— they are sending the message they want people to stay? well, we want to stay there- _ want people to stay? well, we want to stay there. it _ want people to stay? well, we want to stay there. it is _ want people to stay? well, we want to stay there. it is a _ want people to stay? well, we want to stay there. it is a country, - want people to stay? well, we want to stay there. it is a country, we - to stay there. it is a country, we own it, it is a country that most of us have not only invested our time but also to build it, to make it a different country. for what i was doing and for other women that were doing and for other women that were doing it, they paid the highest price of being targeted, and assassinated, some of them. some of us survived, but unfortunately the situation is in a way that there is no hope. they are sending declarations and decrees that girls only up to a certain age can come to
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school. at this stage, women can come to work but some, they went there, the offices were closed, the people do not have jobs, there, the offices were closed, the people do not havejobs, millions there, the offices were closed, the people do not have jobs, millions of people do not have jobs, millions of people lost theirjobs, no income, so it is not only the security, which is a challenge, but also lack of governance or an idea of how the people will survive, is another challenge. so yes, they want the people to stay but they need to deliver, form a government that is inclusive, representative, that respects the rights and principles of individuals. iblit respects the rights and principles of individuals.— of individuals. but do you really think it is going _ of individuals. but do you really think it is going to _ of individuals. but do you really think it is going to be _ of individuals. but do you really think it is going to be what - of individuals. but do you really think it is going to be what your understanding, what most people's understanding, what most people's understanding of inclusive is? t understanding of inclusive is? i don't think so, you know i understanding of inclusive is? t don't think so, you know i have been engage with them for years now. when i first met them, they said women could become prime ministers, ministers, judges, but a woman could
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not be president. now the question is when they say women may not be in the cabinet means there is already discrimination, it is in contradiction with islamic principles. it is in contradiction with all of the decorations and human rights principles. also with the practice of other muslim countries in the same state of qatar for instance, where it was host for taliban for many years, their political office was there, you have women ministers, women in a high level decision making, other muslim countries the same. neighbouring country pakistan, we had the first female muslim women, why not in afghanistan? why should a woman actually have all the burden, if it is painful, it is war, women have to pay for it, if it is a peaceful settlement women have to pay for it because that is not included. i think it is time for the world to listen to the afghan woman. it is getting too much for a woman
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listening how difficult and painful situation they are going to. now when it comes to the government they are being discriminated against as if they are not even first—class citizens. and i think it is time for the world to listen to the women of afghanistan. t the world to listen to the women of afghanistan-— the world to listen to the women of aft hanistan. ., , , ., afghanistan. i am sure wherever you are ou afghanistan. i am sure wherever you are you will — afghanistan. i am sure wherever you are you will continue _ afghanistan. i am sure wherever you are you will continue to _ afghanistan. i am sure wherever you are you will continue to use - afghanistan. i am sure wherever you are you will continue to use your- are you will continue to use your voice. thank you very much for joining us from doha. afghanistan is on many agendas. today in london the foreign secretary dominic raab appeared before an emergency session of the foreign affairs committee to talk about these crises in afghanistan. he spoke of how they had been a shared nato assessment which failed to predict that kabul would predict —— collapsed so quickly. he said no assessment said that kabul would fall this year. isa is a likely, the most likely, the central proposition was that given the troop withdrawal by the end of august, you would see a steady
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deterioration from that point, and that it was unlikely kabul would fall this year. that was the central assessment, and of course with all the usual caveats that you will be familiar with. that doesn't mean we didn't do contingency planning or game out or test the other conditions, just to be clear that is something that was widely shared, that view, amongst nato allies. dominic raab speaking in london. it has to be said that here in kabul, even the taliban were surprised by how quickly they came to power. so this is a country in a political crisis, a security crisis, as we have been reporting, but most of all there is a deepening humanitarian crisis. then before the collapse of kabul and the rise of the taliban to power, afghanistan was reeling from a record drought. also growing hunger and impoverishment across the country. a leading humanitarian who knows the situation well has his own
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people on the ground and joins us from oslo, yan eklund, the secretary general of the norwegian refugee council. how would you describe the scale of this humanitarian crisis in afghanistan? shes scale of this humanitarian crisis in afghanistan?— scale of this humanitarian crisis in afehanistan? a . , , . , , afghanistan? as a deep, deep crisis that is getting _ afghanistan? as a deep, deep crisis that is getting worse. _ afghanistan? as a deep, deep crisis that is getting worse. by _ afghanistan? as a deep, deep crisis that is getting worse. by the - afghanistan? as a deep, deep crisis that is getting worse. by the day - that is getting worse. by the day now really. remember the states services are not functioning at the moment. there is not even a banking system functioning. there have been hundreds of thousands of newly displaced people, some of them are able to return because there is less fighting in most regions, but all of them basically lost everything in this turmoil. so we who are staying and delivering, i mean, the humanitarians did not leave, it was the military and political people who left. we feel now we need help really to restart our operations,
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not only by the taliban, that has to give us full freedom of access for male and female staff, the possibility for girls education, working according to all of our principles, but also for the international community that need to help restart services for the afghan people. help restart services for the afghan aeo . le. ., help restart services for the afghan --eole. ., ., . ., help restart services for the afghan a-eole. ., ., ., ., ., people. your organisation, other organisations— people. your organisation, other organisations have _ people. your organisation, other organisations have been - people. your organisation, other organisations have been talking. people. your organisation, other i organisations have been talking to the taliban for some time now in the areas where they have controlled, the rural areas, for some time. what indication did that give to you about their readiness to work, in your case, with an international ngo? ., , your case, with an international ngo? . ,~ your case, with an international n60? . ,~ your case, with an international n60? ., , ., ., ngo? that they are indeed willing to let us work. — ngo? that they are indeed willing to let us work, and _ ngo? that they are indeed willing to let us work, and able _ ngo? that they are indeed willing to let us work, and able also _ ngo? that they are indeed willing to let us work, and able also to - ngo? that they are indeed willing to let us work, and able also to give - let us work, and able also to give us security. we have been working in taliban areas for years. we have had talks with them in doha and elsewhere, and talks with them on a provincial level for some time. now,
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after they took over, we had the knock on the door in one prevents your capital after the other, and last week in kabul, where they came with a delegation, sat down and wanted to hear about all of our programmes, and urged us to restart work. because we have also demands, male and female staff have to be treated equally. girls have to be able to get education. all minorities have to be treated in the same way etc. they say yes to these things. it remains to be seen whether that actually will happen all over afghanistan, whether that actually will happen all overafghanistan, in whether that actually will happen all over afghanistan, in all regions. they also told us, give us some time so we can tell all of our fighters that you humanitarians can move freely.
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fighters that you humanitarians can move freely-— move freely. yes, because there is euite move freely. yes, because there is quite significant _ move freely. yes, because there is quite significant worry, _ move freely. yes, because there is quite significant worry, you - move freely. yes, because there is quite significant worry, you will - quite significant worry, you will remember months ago when memo circulated from some taliban officers telling ngos they couldn't have projects which encouraged women to leave the home, and now in kabul we have been hearing reports that the ngo plural have been told don't have gatherings of women, women aren't allowed to go out and take part in projects. is that what you are hearing from the leaders you speak to? are hearing from the leaders you s-eak to? ., ,, are hearing from the leaders you s-eakto? ., . speak to? no. quite the opposite, we've been — speak to? no. quite the opposite, we've been told, _ speak to? no. quite the opposite, we've been told, but _ speak to? no. quite the opposite, we've been told, but there - speak to? no. quite the opposite, we've been told, but there is - speak to? no. quite the opposite, we've been told, but there is a - speak to? no. quite the opposite, we've been told, but there is a lot| we've been told, but there is a lot of rumours, there has also been mixed signals actually from them, in different regions. certain regions have always been much more conservative in this regard than others. i hope we can now little by little, resume work. the clock is ticking really. we could have a tremendous famine. we could have tremendous famine. we could have tremendous breakdown of all of
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services. there are hundreds of thousands of teachers who will pay them hundreds of thousands of health workers who will be able to pay them. can we even resume operations, if there is no banking system that can work internationally and nationally? a lot has to be done very soon. so we hope the un can take the lead with trust funds and other instruments to get a very difficult situation moved in the right direction for the sake of the tens of millions of afghan civilians that were left behind when the internationals left.— that were left behind when the internationals left. thank you for our internationals left. thank you for your observations _ internationals left. thank you for your observations and _ internationals left. thank you for your observations and your- internationals left. thank you for . your observations and your advocacy for humanitarian work in this case in afghanistan. the secretary general of the norwegian refugee council. the clock is ticking, as he
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said, and it is ticking in many directions. huge pressure now on the taliban. in power, as we said, much quicker than they expected. we see here in kabul taliban fighters have come from across afghanistan to be in kabul, but at some point new institutions have to be established, a government has to be formed. an urgency too as we have just been hearing just to get money to people, just to get food, so that people survived. there are very, very big issues here in afghanistan about what kind of islamic system will emerge, what will the relations be with the wider world, will they really prevent terrorist attacks from here, and then there are the most everyday questions about people getting enough to eat. for now, i will say goodbye and hand you back to london.
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let's get more analysis on what the foreign secretary dominic raab has been saying to mps in the past few hours. he's been giving evidence to the foreign affairs select committee on the whole subject of afghanistan. on results, can you tell us how many people you think of uk nationals and theirfamilies, and then people you think of uk nationals and their families, and then the people you think of uk nationals and theirfamilies, and then the people who might qualify because they worked for uk forces, and then thirdly the extremely vulnerable, what is your best estimate of those numbers, and ifully accept what is your best estimate of those numbers, and i fully accept you are not going to be able to give, you know... 50 not going to be able to give, you know... . know... so there are three categories. _ know... so there are three categories, you _ know... so there are three categories, you are - know... so there are three categories, you are right. . know... so there are three. categories, you are right. in know... so there are three - categories, you are right. in terms of nationals, we got through the overwhelming majority of nationals that we could verify eligibility. numbers? , that we could verify eligibility. numbers?— that we could verify eligibility. numbers? , . ,~. numbers? sorry, i have given you the number that — numbers? sorry, i have given you the number that we. .. _ numbers? sorry, i have given you the number that we. .. but _ numbers? sorry, i have given you the number that we. .. but also _ numbers? sorry, i have given you the number that we. .. but also on - numbers? sorry, i have given you the number that we. .. but also on the - number that we. .. but also on the cuestion number that we. .. but also on the question you _ number that we. .. but also on the question you said _ number that we. .. but also on the question you said you _ number that we. .. but also on the question you said you were - number that we. .. but also on the question you said you were not. question you said you were not confident of the numbers. t am question you said you were not confident of the numbers. i am not confident of the numbers. i am not confident of _ confident of the numbers. i am not confident of the _ confident of the numbers. i am not confident of the numbers - confident of the numbers. i am not| confident of the numbers remaining but we think there would be in the low hundreds.— but we think there would be in the low hundreds. . . , ., . _ ., low hundreds. what you mean by low hundreds, low hundreds. what you mean by low hundreds. 100 _ low hundreds. what you mean by low hundreds, 100 sort _ low hundreds. what you mean by low
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hundreds, 100 sort of _ low hundreds. what you mean by low hundreds, 100 sort of area _ low hundreds. what you mean by low hundreds, 100 sort of area or - low hundreds. what you mean by low hundreds, 100 sort of area or 200, i hundreds, 100 sort of area or 200, 300 sort of number? thea;t hundreds, 100 sort of area or 200, 300 sort of number?— hundreds, 100 sort of area or 200, 300 sort of number? they would be in the low numbers _ 300 sort of number? they would be in the low numbers but _ 300 sort of number? they would be in the low numbers but i'm _ 300 sort of number? they would be in the low numbers but i'm very - the low numbers but i'm very reticent to give you a precise figure precisely because we do not know. ., , . ~ u, know. low hundreds and like it could be 400 or it — know. low hundreds and like it could be 400 or it could _ know. low hundreds and like it could be 400 or it could be _ know. low hundreds and like it could be 400 or it could be 110, _ know. low hundreds and like it could be 400 or it could be 110, 115. - know. low hundreds and like it could be 400 or it could be 110, 115. if - know. low hundreds and like it could be 400 or it could be 110, 115. if i - be 400 or it could be 110, 115. if i could give _ be 400 or it could be 110, 115. if i could give you any more precision, chris, i would. could give you any more precision, chris, iwould.— could give you any more precision, chris, iwould. somewhere between 100 and 500 — chris, iwould. somewhere between 100 and 500 uk _ chris, iwould. somewhere between 100 and 500 uk nationals? - chris, iwould. somewhere between 100 and 500 uk nationals? let - chris, iwould. somewhere between 100 and 500 uk nationals? let me | 100 and 500 uk nationals? let me ex-lain 100 and 500 uk nationals? let me explain why _ 100 and 500 uk nationals? let me explain why it _ 100 and 500 uk nationals? let me explain why it is — 100 and 500 uk nationals? let me explain why it is difficult. - 100 and 500 uk nationals? let me explain why it is difficult. because | explain why it is difficult. because we got most of the, if not all of the mono nationals who were documented who wanted to leave out, and we are left with, it has to be said, a significant proportion behind who could not establish their nationality, but also a category of more complex cases, particularly with significant wider families, where one or other may have documented nationality or can demonstrate it, others, and the concentric circles of immediacy of their dependents couldn't, that is why it is difficult. in relation to arap, i think the mod and the defence secretary had put an assessment out. and then you asked
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about the third category, the more vulnerable... t about the third category, the more vulnerable. . .— vulnerable... i think the number the are vulnerable... i think the number they are giving _ vulnerable... i think the number they are giving is _ vulnerable... i think the number they are giving is between - vulnerable... i think the number they are giving is between 150 i vulnerable... i think the number . they are giving is between 150 250? the mod? . they are giving is between 150 250? the mod?- i — they are giving is between 150 250? the mod? yes. i defer to the defence secretary on — the mod? .as i defer to the defence secretary on that. mr raab was pressed about the numbers of uk nationals and eligible... i'm sorry, that was the exchange with chris bryant, apologies. mr raab also refused to say if he'd already started his well—publicised holiday to crete by august the 11th, when the united states had warned the taliban was likely to seize afghanistan. challenged about his personal handling of the crisis, mr raab said he wouldn't engage in a "fishing exercise" but reiterated that he wouldn't have gone on holiday to crete "with the benefit of hindsight". on the 11th of august, the us said that the taliban were likely to seize the whole country, it was just a question of how long it was going to take. where you already on holiday? to take. where you already on holida ? , .y
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to take. where you already on holida ? _ . , holiday? so, by the way, that is art of holiday? so, by the way, that is part of the _ holiday? so, by the way, that is part of the centre _ holiday? so, by the way, that is part of the centre assessment l holiday? so, by the way, that is i part of the centre assessment that holiday? so, by the way, that is - part of the centre assessment that i described. _ part of the centre assessment that i described, but we thought that they would _ described, but we thought that they would seize... or there are basically— would seize... or there are basically a _ would seize... or there are basically a variety of scenarios between — basically a variety of scenarios between taliban takeover and civil war, between taliban takeover and civil war. but— between taliban takeover and civil war, but the most likely comedy central— war, but the most likely comedy central assessment was that it would be a taliban consolidation of power, but that _ be a taliban consolidation of power, but that it _ be a taliban consolidation of power, but that it would take place in the months _ but that it would take place in the months following the evacuation, and that kabut— months following the evacuation, and that kabul would not fall before the end of— that kabul would not fall before the end of the year. you that kabul would not fall before the end of the year.— end of the year. you didn't answer the second — end of the year. you didn't answer the second have _ end of the year. you didn't answer the second have my _ end of the year. you didn't answer the second have my question, - end of the year. you didn't answer. the second have my question, where you are already on holiday on the 11th of august? t you are already on holiday on the 11th of august?— you are already on holiday on the 11th of august? i have given a full statement on _ 11th of august? i have given a full statement on my _ 11th of august? i have given a full statement on my holiday. - 11th of august? i have given a full statement on my holiday. i - 11th of august? i have given a full statement on my holiday. i have. 11th of august? i have given a full. statement on my holiday. i have said that i_ statement on my holiday. i have said that i wouldn't have gone away with the benefit of hindsight, which is the benefit of hindsight, which is the luxury— the benefit of hindsight, which is the luxury of... the benefit of hindsight, which is the luxury of. . .— the benefit of hindsight, which is the luxury of... when did you go on houda ? the luxury of... when did you go on holiday? i'm _ the luxury of... when did you go on holiday? i'm not _ the luxury of... when did you go on holiday? i'm not going _ the luxury of... when did you go on holiday? i'm not going to _ the luxury of... when did you go on holiday? i'm not going to start, - holiday? i'm not going to start, chris, holiday? i'm not going to start, chris. adding — holiday? i'm not going to start, chris, adding to, _ holiday? i'm not going to start, chris, adding to, frankly, - holiday? i'm not going to start, chris, adding to, frankly, the i chris, adding to, frankly, the fishing — chris, adding to, frankly, the fishing expedition, beyond the fact that i_ fishing expedition, beyond the fact that i have articulated, the false statement of having answered
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questions continuously about that. i would _ questions continuously about that. i would just— questions continuously about that. i would just make the broader point... no, would just make the broader point... no. i'm _ would just make the broader point... no. i'm sorry. — would just make the broader point... no, i'm sorry, mr raab, the problem here is that of course it is perfectly legitimate for ministers to go on holiday, everybody has that right, and i would argue it is an important part of people being fresh enough to be able to do theirjob properly. the difficulty for us is that the prime minister was on holiday, and the deputy prime minister, yourself, was on holiday, and as i understand that the permanent undersecretary was on holiday, all three at the same time, when british nationals were at risk, many people, thousands of people buy your own estimation, who stood by us in a difficult time in afghanistan were in peril of their lives, and there was still not a proper crisis centre up in place. do you not see that it is important for british people to understand why you thought it was right to go on holiday? tia. it was right to go on holiday? no, sor , it was right to go on holiday? no, sorry. i'm — it was right to go on holiday? no, sorry, i'm afraid _ it was right to go on holiday? no, sorry, i'm afraid i— it was right to go on holiday? no, sorry, i'm afraid i don't agree with that analysis. of course i've been clear— that analysis. of course i've been clear with — that analysis. of course i've been clear with the benefit of hindsight i wouldn't have gone away at all.
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the charge — i wouldn't have gone away at all. the charge in relation to officials ithink— the charge in relation to officials i think it's — the charge in relation to officials i think it's particularly unwarranted, because we always make sure that _ unwarranted, because we always make sure that we _ unwarranted, because we always make sure that we have the right cover in place _ sure that we have the right cover in place the — sure that we have the right cover in place. the permanent secretary did an excellent job, place. the permanent secretary did an excellentjob, and quite right, given— an excellentjob, and quite right, given all— an excellentjob, and quite right, given all of— an excellentjob, and quite right, given all of the ir, the sr, the merger. — given all of the ir, the sr, the merger, that he should take some leave _ merger, that he should take some leave in— merger, that he should take some leave. in terms of my own situation, 'ust leave. in terms of my own situation, just say— leave. in terms of my own situation, just say this — leave. in terms of my own situation, just say this i— leave. in terms of my own situation, just say this. i am travelling today~ — just say this. i am travelling today a— just say this. i am travelling today. a modern foreign secretary has to _ today. a modern foreign secretary has to have — today. a modern foreign secretary has to have the ability, given those wider— has to have the ability, given those wider range of issues that will constantly bubble up, possibly to crisis _ constantly bubble up, possibly to crisis point, to be able to deal at work— crisis point, to be able to deal at work from — crisis point, to be able to deal at work from abroad. i engaged in all of the _ work from abroad. i engaged in all of the cobra meetings, i engaged and directed _ of the cobra meetings, i engaged and directed the emergency response team directly. _ directed the emergency response team directly, and i was engaged with international partners. and the truth _ international partners. and the truth is. — international partners. and the truth is, chris, judge asked by the
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results. _ truth is, chris, judge asked by the results, because between... will come onto _ results, because between... will come onto those. _ results, because between... will come onto those. between - results, because between... will come onto those. between the l results, because between... will i come onto those. between the 15th and the end — come onto those. between the 15th and the end of— come onto those. between the 15th and the end of august, _ come onto those. between the 15th and the end of august, we - come onto those. between the 15th| and the end of august, we delivered over 15,000 people out of the country. — over 15,000 people out of the country, which i think is certainly the most — country, which i think is certainly the most challenging evacuation of its kind _ the most challenging evacuation of its kind in— the most challenging evacuation of its kind in living memory full stop dominic raab and chris bryant aaain. one stop dominic raab and chris bryant again- one of— stop dominic raab and chris bryant again. one of the _ stop dominic raab and chris bryant again. one of the testy _ stop dominic raab and chris bryant again. one of the testy exchanges, j again. one of the testy exchanges, and there were plenty of them. what were the highlights, the important things that came out of it for you? it covered a lot of ground to stop there were some things we had confirmed that we didn't necessarily know and some things that leave us still very much in the dark. dealing with the latter category first, as you heard, we had a refusal by dominic raab to say when he went on holiday, what the situation was and how it was deteriorating in afghanistan at that time. we had the insistence that the central estimate of intelligence if you like was that kabul would not fall this year, and we also had in that category, in terms of not knowing what was going
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on, we still do not know, i think this is hugely significant, the numbers of people who are entitled to be resettled in britain who with uk forces. the foreign secretary said he wasn't confident of being able to give a precise figure. he did believe like the prime minister that the overwhelming majority were out. he didn't know exactly how many were left behind and even when it came to uk nationals, he could only tell us that the numbers were in the low hundreds. again, there was no precise figure. in terms of finding out things that were new, i think two things struck me, first of all he made it clear that we would not be recognising the taliban, but equally we will be seriously talking to the taliban, and indeed now engaging with neighbouring countries where people might escape. the other thing we found out i think was a bit more worrying, and that is that some of the people have made their way to the borders, the documentation they have are not being accepted by these other countries. dominic raab is travelling to the region himself tonight, and in addition to that, it
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looks as though a new layer of security checks are being done in some of these people. the chair of the committee pointed out when he was in the armed forces, and interpreter would have been out on an armed plane had they been able to get through the gates of kabul airport, but now trying to get out via a land border, new security checks were being imposed and from dominic raab's point of view, if you are bringing people from that region who are a terrorist threat, that is dangerous, but some people seem to be getting caught in the middle. again, a very confused picture. i think there was certainly a lot of frustration from the politicians about some of the answers they were getting. he did also though guarantee this story that led some of the papers on the weekend, that mps e—mails were not even being open when they try to take up individual cases. apparently these e—mails will now be responded to by the 6th of september. taih now be responded to by the 6th of september-— september. iain watson at westminster, _ september. iain watson at westminster, thank - september. iain watson at westminster, thank you. i september. iain watson at l westminster, thank you. let september. iain watson at - westminster, thank you. let me september. iain watson at _ westminster, thank you. let me bring you some latest numbers on covid.
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33,023 lab confirmed cases as of this morning. vaccination figures, 19,994,000 covid jobs given in the uk so far since vaccination began. 48,000,060 were first doses, up 38,596 on the previous day. you may remember ministers have said there would be a slowing down of the rate as they at different points get enough supplies, supplies are slow and then they speed up and so on, so it is not and even rise, but it is still progress towards the government's
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ultimate target of getting as many people as possible protected using one of the vaccines. covid vaccine passports for nightclubs and larger live events will be introduced in scotland later this month, if the scottish parliament approves the plans. first minister nicola sturgeon has been setting out her proposals to msps. ms sturgeon said the increasing spread of coronavirus is "extremely concerning" and the number of new cases is 80% higher than last week, and five times higher than four weeks ago. here's what she had to say. we propose, subject to parliamentary agreement, that vaccination certification should be introduced later this month, once all adults have had the opportunity to be fully vaccinated for the following events and venues. firstly, night clubs and aduu and venues. firstly, night clubs and adult entertainment venues. second, unseated indoor live events with more than 500 people in the
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audience. next, unseated outdoor live events with more than 4000 people in the audience, and lastly any event of any nature which has more than 10,000 people in attendance. we don't currently consider appropriate introduction of certification for the hospitality industry as a whole and we hope that will not be necessary, however we will not be necessary, however we will keep that under review. that has nicola sturgeon speaking in a scottish parliament this afternoon. the number of weather—related disasters has increased five—fold in the past 50 years, according to the world meteorological organisation. it says many of them can be attributed to climate change. the report says deaths related to these disasters have fallen sharply, but more than 90% of them have taken place in developing countries. doctor sue christie is an ecologist and joins me now. what do you make of this report? tf is shocking, but as scientists we
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have known that this sort of increase in extreme weather events was happening. it is caused largely by climate change. they will mushroom as we get more and more of the impact as the climate warms, which is then due to changes in the atmosphere. the amount that was already emitted is causing extreme climate change and extreme... these weather events. they are more severe and we are seeing fires, floods, we are seeing... sea level lead to coastal erosion, most of the cities on the planet in coastal areas are going to suffer increasing impacts. and one thing is plenty of countries where the vast majority of population is on the coast, if you think of places like australia, for instance. weather—related disasters, the world meteorological organisation, says increased, caused
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more damage, but fewer deaths, and yet paradoxically lots of deaths, like 90% of the deaths, happening in developing countries. are there any obvious answers why? is it simply a lack of response and recovery operations or other more fundamental problems? operations or other more fundamental -roblems? ~ .. operations or other more fundamental -roblems? ~ ~ , ., , problems? well, i think probably the infrastructure _ problems? well, i think probably the infrastructure isn't _ problems? well, i think probably the infrastructure isn't as _ problems? well, i think probably the infrastructure isn't as good _ problems? well, i think probably the infrastructure isn't as good in - problems? well, i think probably the infrastructure isn't as good in a - infrastructure isn't as good in a lot of developing countries. people are living in very poorly constructed, older buildings and often in very crowded conditions. it is very encouraging that the amount of death is decreasing, but that is due more to our ability to get in very quickly marshal our forces to help them from other parts of the world and i lay the damage. the damage to the property and infrastructure goes on for ages. and remember that an awful lot of the deaths that we see are not happening immediately. there are deaths that are caused by the event itself, but
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there are likely to be large numbers of disease related events, exposure, etc, that will only be seen in the months and years to come after one of these extreme events. t months and years to come after one of these extreme events.— of these extreme events. i wonder what this is — of these extreme events. i wonder what this is likely _ of these extreme events. i wonder what this is likely to _ of these extreme events. i wonder what this is likely to mean - of these extreme events. i wonder what this is likely to mean here . of these extreme events. i wonder what this is likely to mean here in | what this is likely to mean here in the uk. what impact is this likely to have for us, it is possible to say? are there parts of our climate that will be particularly, whether that will be particularly, whether that will be particularly, whether that will will be particularly affected by or could be particularly affected by or could be particularly affected by! think probably floods is the biggest that we have seen here and will continue to see. there is a terrible — here and will continue to see. there is a terrible thing _ here and will continue to see. there is a terrible thing looming _ here and will continue to see. there is a terrible thing looming that - is a terrible thing looming that came outjust a a few weeks ago, new data showing that the gulf stream is under threat and where the gulf stream to actually suffer a severe impact of climate, which it appears to be, that could cause our climate to be, that could cause our climate to get very much colder. we are at the same latitude as denmark and
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northern canada. we don't have that sort of cold winters. we don't have the same sort of heat waves in the summer as well. if we lost the gulf stream, that is the moderator, and thatis stream, that is the moderator, and that is what makes our climate here so... equitable for people. find that is what makes our climate here so. .. equitable for people.— so... equitable for people. and you mentioned — so... equitable for people. and you mentioned infrastructure _ so. .. equitable for people. and you mentioned infrastructure earlier- so... equitable for people. and you mentioned infrastructure earlier in| mentioned infrastructure earlier in developing countries. could our infrastructure cope without? tia. developing countries. could our infrastructure cope without? no. the ower infrastructure cope without? no. the aower of infrastructure cope without? no. the power of nature _ infrastructure cope without? no. the power of nature in _ infrastructure cope without? no. the power of nature in terms _ infrastructure cope without? no. the power of nature in terms of - infrastructure cope without? no. the power of nature in terms of water, i power of nature in terms of water, floods and landslides that are caused by the floods is so great that even our very solid bridges and roads are often catastrophically impacted by climate. we have buildings right on the shore. we have been building ourflood plains for decades and those are highly vulnerable. we have seen that in floods in york and in wales in past
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years, where huge areas are impacted by the floods. there are ways to alleviate some of this, by working with nature instead of trying to canal the rivers, working with the upland areas to try and get the water is stored so it doesn't come down quite so quickly in a rainstorm situation. working with meanders in rivers so that the water is flowing slower as it comes down. but these are still in their infancy and we really need to increase this and hopefully that is going to be one of the results of the climate summit in glasgow, that we will make significant commitments to help not only other countries, which desperately need our help, both in their emergencies and in their developing areas of research to do with the emergencies, but also here at home where we need to work with
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our nature to try to ameliorate the impact here because they are here and they are going to increase, we are going to have an increasing number of stones. idt are going to have an increasing number of stones.— are going to have an increasing number of stones. dr sue christie, ecolo . ist number of stones. dr sue christie, ecologist joining — number of stones. dr sue christie, ecologist joining us _ number of stones. dr sue christie, ecologist joining us from _ number of stones. dr sue christie, ecologist joining us from northern| ecologistjoining us from northern ireland, thank you very much a win with serum bbc news. now it's time for a look at the weather. most of us have got cloud to ground ahead, but not everywhere, and this is the picture in kinross, beautiful skies across much of scotland, into northern ireland, northern england all looking like this. the bulk of the uk we have got more clad, particularly further south across northern and wales must be cloud just thick enough in the east for one or two spots of drizzle. temperatures in the evening mid—teens towards the east, particularly high teens further west. this evening and overnight we will see this cloud drifting a bit further westwards was part of scotland, perhaps into northern ireland. still a few clear spells, temperatures just dipping into
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single figures, but further south giving me double figures, more clad round. tomorrow not much change, fairly overcast, a bit of drizzle towards the east, still some sunshine for parts of scotland and northern ireland, temperatures up to 22 degrees. goodbye! you're watching bbc news. with me, shaun ley. in the next half hour before we join maxine cox or, let's get more news on how covid vaccine passports could be introduced in scotland's night clubs and large events soon. nicola sturgeon said in the scottish parliament today that the scottish parliament today that the spread of covid in scotland is increasing, five times higher than four weeks ago. let's speak to professor and chair of global public health, edinburgh university medical school devi sridhar. i don't know what you had to say, but the idea is presumably to reduce
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the infection rate. when you look at figures at the moment, how concerning is the picture in scotland?— concerning is the picture in scotland? ~ , . , scotland? well, it is concerning is that increase _ scotland? well, it is concerning is that increase continues _ scotland? well, it is concerning is that increase continues over - scotland? well, it is concerning is that increase continues over the l that increase continues over the coming weeks because we know while vaccines have weakened the link between hospitalisations and cases, they have not fully broken it and therefore the nhs capacity would be severely strained in the days and weeks to come. the idea is how to slow these infections and in riskier settings how to make sure there are more mitigations in place to ensure it is safer? ., . . , . it is safer? one of the areas that is obviously _ it is safer? one of the areas that is obviously of _ it is safer? one of the areas that is obviously of particular- it is safer? one of the areas that is obviously of particular concern j is obviously of particular concern in scotland now that schoolchildren have been back for a couple of weeks, many of them in england, wales and eventually in northern ireland will be back in the coming days as well. we hope had been that the infection rates would be down in the infection rates would be down in the summer, partly because schools are broken up. what are you expecting to happen now? t are broken up. what are you expecting to happen now? i think we are headin: expecting to happen now? i think we are heading into _ expecting to happen now? i think we are heading into a _ expecting to happen now? i think we are heading into a time _ expecting to happen now? i think we are heading into a time where - expecting to happen now? i think we are heading into a time where there | are heading into a time where there is more infections and it is not just... i know schools often get blamed, but actually the increase in scotland happened even before
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schools went back, due to festival season, that returning, night clubs opening, kind of a return to normal. more people perhaps going into offices, and so, i think generally the more mixing you have to be more opportunities there are for this virus to spread, but instead of blanket restrictions the idea is how do we use vaccinations, testing and more targeted measures to try to keep a hold of covid, but also tried to get back to more normal life? to talk specifically about children. there has been a lot of concern about a number of issues, obviously we want is vaccination, but perhaps we want is vaccination, but perhaps we park that for now. what about the impact we know covid has had on the children who have had it? yes. impact we know covid has had on the children who have had it?— children who have had it? yes, so i think there — children who have had it? yes, so i think there are _ children who have had it? yes, so i think there are two _ children who have had it? yes, so i think there are two issues - children who have had it? yes, so i think there are two issues with - think there are two issues with covid, one is a natural gas, which we know are absolutely minimal to children with covid, but then there's the issue of long covid, thatis there's the issue of long covid, that is is their morbidity on this for a prolonged period? there are studies coming out now that have asked children who have tested
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positive about symptoms later on and their parents of children who have it, and there are some concerning sunset. but i always trust the paediatric community, those working in hospitals, those who are working with children in clinics, and they generally seem to be seeing that children younger than 12 are not their only concern right now, it is actually as are viruses that are worrying to them such as rsd and other respiratory illnesses which are filling up at paediatrics, so they are saying, yes, we are worried about children, but it is not covid, it is other respiratory illnesses, now that children are coming back together again. now that children are coming back together again-— now that children are coming back together again. let's ask about the next generation _ together again. let's ask about the next generation up, _ together again. let's ask about the next generation up, the _ together again. let's ask about the | next generation up, the teenagers, and honestly a lot of them are now going to be able to access the vaccine, and those in their early 20s some issue still about the number taking up the option of vaccination. is this vaccine passports scheme in scotland a good way of perhaps, never mind the practical benefits within nightclubs, but acting as a bit of an incentive for people to say,
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actually if you want to get your nightlife back you really do need to get vaccinated?— nightlife back you really do need to get vaccinated? yes, i think we have seen similar— get vaccinated? yes, i think we have seen similar schemes _ get vaccinated? yes, i think we have seen similar schemes in _ get vaccinated? yes, i think we have seen similar schemes in france - get vaccinated? yes, i think we have seen similar schemes in france be i seen similar schemes in france be enormously successful and also being used something called corona pass in denmark, where you had to show either a test result or a vaccination status. the idea is we want to keep these venues open and allow people to have that socialisation back, but the vaccine does offer protection to them and it is not they are taking it to protect others, they are actually taking it to protect themselves. there are many people in hospital who are under 40 who are not vaccinated. this is still a dangerous virus if you are younger, but if you get vaccinated fully this will be less dangerous to you, so that is the message i want to give to younger people, get vaccinated notjust for others, but for your own health. devi sridhar, thank you.
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the double—child murderer colin pitchfork has been released from prison after a ruling that he was safe to serve the rest of his life sentence on a licence in the community. he is now 61 and was freed after the parole board injune deemed it was safe for him to serve the rest of his life sentence in the community. our home affairs correspondent is dominic casciani explained the case. colin pitchfork was jailed in 1988, after ultimately admitting to the murders of two leicestershire schoolgirls. this was over a period in the 1980s. he was given a minimum life term at the time of 30 years and he has served a lot longer than that, about 33 years in the end. earlier this year injune the parole board ruled that he was now safe to serve is continuing life sentence in the community and are a special license available for life at that decision was challenged by the
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ministry ofjustice, and thejustice secretary robert buckland, but there was found to be no legal floor within the decision—making because the parole board, which is a judge led process, effectively found that colin pitchfork has gone through an enormous series of reoffending courses, courses to look at his mindset and he had passed all of these. there was no other work that could be done with him in relation to his offending and he had also taken part in day release schemes and had spent time in an open prison, so in effect he was the type of prisoner who could be moved out of prisoner who could be moved out of prisoner who could be moved out of prison into a life into the community. now, clearly that is a very controversial decision, one of the most notorious cases of 1980s, but his restrictions... the restrictions colin pitchfork will now face are quite generous. he is subject to notjust now face are quite generous. he is subject to not just the standard restrictions that any life prisoner has when they leave jail, such as the requirement to live at, for instance, in the bail hostel, but
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also 36 additional restrictions. those include a polygraph test. he has to regularly basically take part in an exercise where he has to be tested to see if he is lying because of concerns that he could be a devious liar, which is obviously something that has happened quite regularly in these kinds of cases. he is subject to geographic bans. he basically can't go near the families of his victims or the area where his crimes took place. and he is also subject to a gps attack monitoring his movements. now, those 36 restrictions in total lead to the ministry ofjustice to conclude that he is going to be one of the most closely monitored lifers out in the community for many, many years to come and they say today... a spokesman for the ministry of justice said their heartfelt sympathies remain with the families of colin pitchfork�*s to victims, but they are taking all steps to make sure that his behaviour is monitored. and of course if you
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stepped out of line he can be recalled back to prison at literally be a drop of a hat. that recalled back to prison at literally be a drop of a hat.— be a drop of a hat. that was a reporter _ be a drop of a hat. that was a reporter on — be a drop of a hat. that was a reporter on the _ be a drop of a hat. that was a reporter on the release - today of colin pitchfork. the bbc has been speaking to a football fan that says he used to be racist until his daughter helped him change his behaviour a few years ago. neil said he used to go along with racist chants at football matches, but is ashamed of his former behaviour and now describes himself as "anti—racist". our reporter manish pandey has been speaking to neil and his daughter. i think it was probably seeing the look of disgust on millie's face when i made comments. i think i don't really want to be that sort of role model for her. being a racist, a sexist, a homophobe, basically a bigot, isn't what i want to show millie when she's growing up. this is neil. he says as a younger man he was racist, and the football culture he was involved in played a big part in that. he's with his daughter millie at the ground of a nearby club that's done work on tackling racism. i wasn't overtly racist, but i was casually racist, casually sexist, casual homophobic.
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in conversation, i'd say the n—word, the p—word. i wasn't a very nice person. i'm not ashamed to admit it. i'm ashamed of what i was, because it's who i was, and it's not who i am any more. one of the things used to say was things like, one of the things he used to say was things like, "you can't have a black boyfriend, don't bring a black boy home." or we'd walk past people who were selling the big issue and it would be, "well, we only buy them from english people, "because they can just go home and be homeless there." it wasn't a necessarily, like, outward thing, he wouldn't go, "oh, my god, i hate these kind of people," but it was, kind of, in the little things. and why did you think it was ok to use language like that at that time? i think it was partly my upbringing, learnt behaviour. i was from a small town with, i think, one black family in the whole village, and then i moved when i was16, 17, to a town with a large minority population, and that was a shock to the system. i wasn't used to it and i didn't
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know how to deal with it, so ijust followed what everybody else was doing. how much of an impact do you think football has had on you, neil, in your previous behaviour? probably me earlier life, you'd go along with a chants — you'd go along with the chants — the racist chants, the homophobic chants. looking back now, i'm thinking, it's not... that's not the person i am now. i think it normalises it. yeah, it did, it normalised it. it made it, "everybody else is doing it, so that's great." so i'mjoining in, same as everybody else. something i'd object to know. something i'd object to now. yeah, i think if you are singing horrible chants at football games, and you're doing that in public, so why would you not say similar things like that in private, at home, to your family? it's nice to know that he can change and other people can change as well. if i can, anybody can. you know, i'm notjust not racist, i'm anti—racist. and what's your relationship like now compared to before?
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0h, we're a lot closer now. i think i've learnt from millie that what i was was unacceptable. now we look back and i try to teach other people the way that millie's taught me. you know, i've got a lot of respect for millie because she stood up to me and showed me what i was. manesh pandy, bbc news. david smith has become great britain's 30th gold medal winner at the paralympics in tokyo. he retains his title in boccia — which is similar to bowls — after he won 4—2 against malaysia's chew wei lun. the victory gives smith his fifth paralympic medal and sees him overtake nigel murray as the country's most successful athlete in the sport. viv nanopoulou is the operations directorfor boccia uk — the national governing body for the paralympic sport of boccia in the uk. i guess the clue is in the title, isn't it? i don't even know why you said that! thank you very much for joining us, viv nanopoulou, you must
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be filled? ., , , . , . be filled? oh, god, yes, it was an amazin: be filled? oh, god, yes, it was an amazing match — be filled? oh, god, yes, it was an amazing match to _ be filled? oh, god, yes, it was an amazing match to watch - be filled? oh, god, yes, it was an amazing match to watch this - be filled? oh, god, yes, it was an - amazing match to watch this morning. very emotional, very nerve—racking, but we are all thrilled. david is on top of the world and yes, a brilliant result to watch. brilliant. tell us about the sport, how does it differ from bowls? brilliant. tell us about the sport, how does it differfrom bowls? weill. how does it differ from bowls? well, there are many _ how does it differ from bowls? well, there are many similarities, - how does it differ from bowls? -tt there are many similarities, but with boccia each player would have six balls, red, blue, and a white jacket. and effectively you need to get as near to the jack as possible and those who end up... the balls that end up nearest the jacket at the end will score maximum points, so the maximum you can score in one end, as it were, is six because you have six balls. so it is very, very strategic. they are seeing each play they are going to make ahead of it. it is a bit like chess, in a way, that's tactical and strategic. there are many different shots you can do,
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different athletes will play nearer or further down the court to fields of the play and very tactical and strategic. of the play and very tactical and strate . ic. ~ ., of the play and very tactical and strateaic. . . , ., of the play and very tactical and strateaic. ~ ., , ., ~' of the play and very tactical and strateaic. ~ ., , ., ~ , of the play and very tactical and strateaic. ., ~ , �*, strategic. what you think is david's secret, or what _ strategic. what you think is david's secret, or what is _ strategic. what you think is david's secret, or what is it _ strategic. what you think is david's secret, or what is it that _ strategic. what you think is david's secret, or what is it that he - strategic. what you think is david's secret, or what is it that he is - secret, or what is it that he is better at than his competitors on a global level? t better at than his competitors on a global level?— global level? i don't know, he is 'ust a global level? i don't know, he is just a phenomenal _ global level? i don't know, he is just a phenomenal athlete. - global level? i don't know, he is just a phenomenal athlete. his. global level? i don't know, he is- just a phenomenal athlete. his mind works so differently to mine and yours, possibly. t works so differently to mine and yours. possibly-— works so differently to mine and yours, possibly._ he l works so differently to mine and i yours, possibly._ he sees yours, possibly. i am sure! he sees the thing is— yours, possibly. i am sure! he sees the thing is coming, _ yours, possibly. i am sure! he sees the thing is coming, he _ yours, possibly. i am sure! he sees the thing is coming, he has - yours, possibly. i am sure! he sees the thing is coming, he hasjust - yours, possibly. i am sure! he sees the thing is coming, he hasjust got pinpoint accuracy. he is a master of his craft and after watching the series of games at the paralympics he can definitely be listed as one of the paralympic greats. fiend he can definitely be listed as one of the paralympic greats. and we're aeoin to of the paralympic greats. and we're going to look _ of the paralympic greats. and we're going to look at _ of the paralympic greats. and we're going to look at some _ of the paralympic greats. and we're going to look at some of— of the paralympic greats. and we're going to look at some of him - going to look at some of him performing you and i talk, but how widely is the sport now played? is a relatively easy to get the opportunity to play this for people with disabilities?—
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with disabilities? well, i think ho aefull with disabilities? well, i think hopefully david _ with disabilities? well, i think hopefully david will _ with disabilities? well, i think hopefully david will have - with disabilities? well, i think. hopefully david will have inspired more and people will be searching out how they can start. it is becoming increasingly popular and with extra funding that we receive through the national lottery and uk sport, we are able to further this popularity. seeing it on the television helps massively because you can't be what you want to see, so hopefully people that have watched it this time around will feel inspired and our home nation partners run fabulous participation programmes, boccia uk, disability support wells, disability sport northern ireland and scotland disability sport all offer fantastic participation programmes and they are always on the drive to bring more people in. and boccia uk are also always on the search for our next bunch of athletes for paris and beyond. next bunch of athletes for paris and be ond. . ., next bunch of athletes for paris and beond. ,. ,, next bunch of athletes for paris and beond. ,, , beyond. yes, and presumably there is a website or— beyond. yes, and presumably there is a website or something _ beyond. yes, and presumably there is a website or something people - beyond. yes, and presumably there is a website or something people can .
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a website or something people can look at online that would give them tips and advice and also how to get in contact?— bocciauk.com, bocciauk. com, and the bocciauk.com, and the home counties quys bocciauk.com, and the home counties guys will be able to point you in the direction of your nearest club to get started. "dis.r the direction of your nearest club to get started-— to get started. viv nanopoulou, treat ou to get started. viv nanopoulou, great you to _ to get started. viv nanopoulou, great you to talk _ to get started. viv nanopoulou, great you to talk to _ to get started. viv nanopoulou, great you to talk to you - to get started. viv nanopoulou, great you to talk to you about i to get started. viv nanopoulou, i great you to talk to you about this, thank you, and great news therefore david smith. thank you, and great news therefore david smith-— nearly one in three of the world's tree species are facing extinction in the wild. according to a report published by conservationists, oaks, maples and magnolias are among those at risk. our correspondent sanchia berg has been at kew gardens in south west london finding out just how serious the threat is.
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i have been looking at some of these species identified as being at risk down here at kew gardens including some extraordinary trees from madagascar from what is called the dry forest which have been particularly affected by logging and some are close to extinction. of course they are here being conserved at kew gardens as part of a huge programme in this area but the authors of the report are concerned about the number of trees in their own native environment because a whole ecosystem can depend on them. so the lemurs of madagascar for example depend on those trees just as many other plants and animals do and as you said it's notjust the exotic
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trees but also much more familiar british trees and european trees that this report identifies as being at risk in their home areas. so they are hoping that the report will alert people to what is actually happening in the fact that many species of trees are at risk particularly in the countries where they evolved. it sjust four weeks until the uk premiere of daniel craig s fifth and final outing as james bond in no time to die, which has been repeatedly delayed by the pandemic. the final trailer has just been released and it shows all the high—octane action that bond fans have come to expect. it comes as welcome tonic for the uk's cinemas. mark lobel reports. come on, bond. where the hell are you? indeed. the world has been waiting. quite a while. barring another screeching u—turn, we're away from witnessing bond's return, out of retirement, and into the arms of an old foe. now your enemy is my enemy. how did that happen? well, you live long enough. after a year in which the pandemic sent the box office into a tailspin with billions of dollars lost, and after that top gun tom cruise's well—publicised summer trip to see tenet proved somewhat of a false start, could no time to die be the blockbuster that really brings us back to the big screen? i have to finish this. the release may also help
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bolster the box office in its battle with the home sofa. even though amazon's takeover of mgm, the hollywood studio behind bond, has led some to speculate future releases like this may be fast tracked to the small screen. that is a sore point for actors who profit from box office bonuses, including black widow actress scarlettjohansson who is currently in a battle with the walt disney company, unhappy they premiered her film on its streaming service at the same time as in cinemas. i understand 00s have a very short life expectancy. but every actor who has played bond so far has made it safely onto the big screen. all eight of them, in fact. sean connery, roger moore, timothy dalton, and pierce brosnan. and in the '60s, george lazenby and david niven. not to forget the first bond in the '50s, barry nelson. he was in casino royale.
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so who is odds—on to take overfrom daniel craig? is it that bloke from bridgerton? marvel�*s kung fu master? or the man who played superman? but this bond has to survive a number of plot twists first. james, you don't know what this is. if he does finally find his way to the big screen, we will all find out. the name's lobel, mark lobel, bbc news. ican i can tell you he has got be heard to be a bond! i have always had my doubts about how britishjames bond is because one thing you never seem to see is an umbrella! am i going to need my umbrella? well, i think not in a hurry over the next couple of days, not much change to our weather, certainly. we have got a really strong, stubborn area of high pressure in charge of our weather, in fact so high that last
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night we recorded provisionally the highest august air pressure ever in the uk. more than 1038 millibars and that was to the north of scotland. so very high, very strong high pressure at the moment and that is why things are really not changing in a hurry. it is called a blocking high that is with us at the moment, so seems a bit like this, quite a lot of cloud for most of us today, and this is herefordshire early on and this is herefordshire early on and on. so a blanket of cloud, but there have been holes in the cloud and we will get some sunny spells over the next few days as well, but mostly cloudy, a few spots of drizzle over central and southern and eastern parts of england. wednesday, a bit of brightness in northern ireland and eastern england, a bit of a breeze coming off the north sea, particularly in east anglia for the south—east and the channel as well, as we head into the channel as well, as we head into the evening 15—20 , is always
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warmest in the west, coolest where you are exposed to that eastern breeze. overnight we keep the blanket of cloud for most areas, drifting further west across scotland and northern ireland, still someplace else here, temperatures just dipping down into single figures for some of us, but a mild start mostly for thursday morning. tomorrow brings us more the same, so a bit of a case of deja vu with our weather, cloudy skies and the odd spot of drizzle, but should bend and break up in the afternoon, with the best of the sunshine in north and west, temperatures 22 or 23 degrees, 17—19 along the east coast, but best then we have seen in recent days. heading on into friday, we still have this area of high pressure trapped underneath that high a lot of cloud with that descending air which has nowhere to go. the cloud will tend to break up a bit for the day on friday, but again some sunshine in parts of western scotland, western england and perhaps southern england also seeing
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the sunshine reappearing through friday. temperatures 14 aberdeen with more cloud and a breeze of the sea, 21 for the likes of cardiff on friday. not much change into the weekend, but a subtle change because weekend, but a subtle change because we have got high pressure still with us, just edging away towards the east, as low pressure tries to move in for the atlantic. we were previously thinking this could push rain across the uk, but now it looks more likely that high pressure will win out through the course of the weekend. most places once again staying dry, settled, a bit of sunshine coming through and you will notice those temperatures started to edge up on sunday. that theme continues into next week as well, so we may be heading into meteorological autumn, but some slightly warmer sunnier weather eventually on the cards.
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this is bbc news. the headlines... mps grill foreign secretary, dominic raab, who's refused to say if he'd already started his well—publicised holiday when the us had warned the taliban was likely to seize afghanistan. i have said that i wouldn't have gone away, with the benefit of hindsight, which is the luxury of... when did you go on holiday? i'm not going to start. the taliban tell the bbc that their new government will be announced soon — with no women in senior roles. in this new government which has been announced, in the top posts — i mean to say, in the cabinet — there may not be a woman. new research suggests up to one
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in seven children who catch coronavirus may still suffer symptoms months after infection.

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