this is bbc news. we will have the headlines and all the main news stories for you at the top of the hour as newsday continues straight after hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk with me, zeinab badawi. the world of fashion, with its often scantily clad women in seductive poses, is not where you would expect to find a somali—born fashion editor who wears a hijab. well, rawdah mohamed has

taken up a senior role at the soon—to—be—launched vogue scandinavia. after moving to norway as a child, she became a model, and in april created a social media storm with a post called hands off my hijab. how far can she use fashion to overturn negative stereotypes of muslim women? rawdah mohamed, welcome to hardtalk. so there you were at the age of eight, your family fled rawdah mohamed, welcome to hardtalk. so there you were at the age of eight, your family fled the conflict in somalia and moved to norway as refugees. that must have been a bit of a culture shock, no? yes. thank you for having me, by the way.

yes, it was culture shock because i was only used to the refugee camp, my family and the people around. so when i came, it was... everything was different — not only the culture, but also the climate was very different, and i knew it was very far away from home. and so, it was a bit of a traumatic experience at first, really. ok, so traumatic experience, because you moved to skien, a small town in southern norway. norway is a very homogeneous country, about 5.5 million people, and in skien, most of the people there were white, hadn't even seen a black person before and you said that "that was when i mentally decided i was going to be confident in who i am". what do you mean by that? how did the traumatic experiences fashion your thinking? i think when i was in the refugee camp, even then things were obviously very difficult, but then everyone looked like me and no—one was being mean to me because of the way that i looked or the way that i dressed. so when i came to a very white

community, then i realised that "oh, i'm black and i'm hijabi" and i was very different from what the others were and i wasn't allowed to be that. and, you know, when you come to refugee in a country, you don't have — you don't have a home, there's nothing in your name and yourfamily have absolutely nothing. we only wore the clothing that we had. so i thought the only thing i have left in this world is who i am as a person, so i wasn't going to allow the world to take that away from me, whether that was the gunmen in my country or the white people i've met in the new city. but you said it was a traumatic experience because, in fact, you experienced verbal and physical abuse for wearing the hijab. just tell us what happened to you. i think the first day at school, it was very — the children were curious, because they had never seen a black person before. because they had never seen

and i was curious as well, because i had never seen white children. and so the first day, it went really well. and then eventually, the bullying started with me being different and wearing the hijab. and there was also — there were so many layers of me that people had problems with. eventually, the teachers, they came up with this brilliant idea that in order to end the bullying, their solution was that i would stop wearing the hijab. but the children were also bullying me for my skin colour. so they said, "well, we start with one problem at a time". and in that meeting, it was only adults and i was the only child, and they kept coming up with solutions to how i would change. and i didn't want to do that because i thought, "you don't like me either way and i am disinvited from your society and i am an outcast. so why should i have to wear a costume to fit and look like the way you want me to look like, just so you can be comfortable?" and i thought the problem was the children who were bullying me, and no—one was really talking to them and trying to make them leave me alone. so in many ways, i think the adults were enabling the bully. and eventually, they also

started being physical with me — the people, the adults in the community. when you say "physical", i mean, i know that, for instance, your hijab would be taken off your head by some of the children and they'd play around with it. and you've said, "i've always had to defend the way i look and it's exhausting". that must have had a real impact on you as a child. yes, it did because, you know, when we came, no—one really looked at me as somebody who came from a traumatic experience and everything that i knew in life was war and the refugee camp. when i came, they started immediately with something that reminded me of a cultural indoctrination. i wasn't allowed to be — like, my muslim—ness was a threat to them, my blackness was a threat to them, so they immediately started with, you know, talking really bad about what africa was — we were only poor and we all lived in huts and all these things — and even when i tried — the teacher wanted me to speak about africa, so i started talking

about the animals. and then she made me stop the presentation because she'd rather hear about the war and how poor i was and how much food we used to eat. so it was very — always very negative. and, you know, in our local coffee shop, in the store, they put up signs where refugees were not welcomed. and one time, they drew me as a monkey holding a banana and wearing the hijab — and these things were done by the adults. and the latest experience we also had was one lady was smoking, and i was a child playing outside the store while my mum was doing the grocery shopping, and she stubbed her smoke on my chin. and there were many streets that we were not allowed to walk because they would throw their garbage while the cars were driving by. so there was — there was a lot to deal with. and i felt — i felt almost the gunmen in my country were easier to deal with than the white people, because at least they were wearing uniforms and they were holding a gun so you knew they were dangerous. you knew not to look at them and not — sort of make yourself

small and not be visible in fear of what they were going to do with your family. but in norway, the enemy was your neighbours, people that were not wearing a uniform, so that made me — that was much more traumatising than the gunmen, because at least you saw them coming. so you paint that picture and how the attitudes towards africans, saying they're backward and so on. how far do you think it's racism and how far do you think it's islamophobia? because you have said, "the world has become much more hateful towards us in recent years. i think there is a highly dangerous, xenophobic, anti—muslim feeling going around europe," and the kind of trends and statistics we see would kind of support that statement. so when is it race and when is anti—islam? i think for someone who is both, it's very difficult to see when someone is being racist to you. does it have something to do — is it racist because of my colour or are they being islamophobic? but i think, you know,

you see the way the media outlets and the societies are talking about racism. sometimes in european countries, they see it only as an american issue and, you know, norway's not really that bad. so i think — i think for somebody who has experienced it, a lot of the times, you can see it almost from their face, the hate — they don't really know how to control it. right. but i think when it comes to the hijab, i know it's because then they will see me as someone who's oppressed and someone that they have to speak over, and they're supposedly trying to save me from whatever oppression they think my culture or my religion is imposing on me. so that's the picture that you paint but of course, i should say that there are many people in norway who work very actively to support the rights of refugees and of course, norway has been relatively generous in receiving refugees from somalia. but let me just ask you this — why did you start wearing the hijab at the age of eight? i think it's because i knew how much they disliked me

for who i was, and i didn't like — it's also like you said, norway are very welcome to refugees and i didn't like the fact that there were so many double standards because on our way to norway, we were told, "this is the freedom." right? "you can be whoever you want and now you don't have to worry." and then, in theory, that is what was happening. but in our everyday lives, that was on the contrary. so i thought, "well, if i have the rights and they're written somewhere, i'm going to take it, whether these people like it or not". and i knew that the law was supporting people like me, so i thought "if my family came all the way here, i might as well take advantage of the freedom that i have" so i started to wear the hijabjust for, like, to be rebellious against the teachers. and then eventually, it sort of became my identity or my sort of muslim—ness, because i didn't have it in norway, and i sort ofjust was building around it. all right, but let me tell

you what the british somali activist nimko ali has to say. she advises the british home office on protecting female rights and she describes herself as both a muslim and a feminist, and she says "the hijab is meant to be worn to cover women in order to avoid tempting men. by covering up young girls, the implication is that they are sexual beings. it is not islamophobic to ban the headscarf in primary schools — or any school for that matter." so why did you feel at the age of eight, prepubescent, that you ought to wear the hijab, given what nimko ali's just been saying? i think, you know, to hide again — to hide behind feminism, for me, that sounds like very selective feminism. i, as an eight—year—old, i knew what i wanted in life and i knew how i wanted to look like. fashion has always been very important in my life. so to say, when i wear the hijab, i don't — when i was eight years old and i decided to wear

the hijab, i didn't think they were, you know — my mother was telling me to wear this, or my father, to avoid getting attraction from men, because they are not my responsibility. crosstalk. but that's the implication, isn't it? as nimko ali says, that's the implication of covering up — that you are a sexual being. that is not why muslim women wear the hijab. if some muslims say this is the reason, i don't — i think as a muslim, when you wear the hijab, it's because god told you to. it has nothing to do... crosstalk. yes, women, but not girls. but the point is, women, sure, if they want to, but girls at that age? you see some girls, six, seven, eight, nine years of age, prepubescent, as i said, wearing the hijab. can they really make an informed, independent choice at that age? of course they can. it's the same way young girls can decide to wear pink or blue. it has nothing to do with it. as someone who was interested in the way that i looked, wearing the hijab is nothing that my mother or my teachers or my community could stop me from wearing. i think that itself shows that

a girl at that age can have a voice and decide. so instead of forcing every girl — all children are different. so if i was very strong in my opinion in how i wanted to look, then i have the right to look that way. so if, for instance, like, my sisters, i mean, my cousins, they were not interested in it. their opinions were not as... crosstalk. so you refute the fact that nimko ali says that hijab is meant to be worn by — to cover women in order to avoid tempting men? absolutely not. for you, it was something to do with your identity? no, it has nothing to do with then or now. all right. 0k. so after working as a health care professional in norway, you decided to move into fashion. why was that? i've always been interested in fashion, but i knew when i was younger that the time was not right. i tried to apply for manyjobs, like fashion stores, but i was rejected because of my hijab. and they said, "we're afraid that we're not going to get any

customers and they will be scared of your hijab". so i knew that i always was going to work in fashion, but the time was not right — the climate was quite hateful. but when social media — when we got into this age of social media, then the power was no longer with these huge brands, then it was the people that were deciding. and so, if i posted my looks of what i was wearing, then the muslim women or women who dress modestly, orjust any person who are interested in fashion, were engaging with my post. so that meant if you have the engagement of the people, then the brands will also connect with you and are willing to work. all right. so you became a fashion blogger for modest style fashion. but do you — and you eventually became a model. but do you find that there's an incompatibility between being admired for your looks and also being a good hijab—wearing muslim? yes, ithink... you know, i grew up very religiously. so everything i learned

in my mosque and at home, it was, you know, you have to be a good muslim and that comes from within. it was never based on looks. and it's almost no—one really talks about, you know, what beauty is. beauty has always been from within — that you have to have a good soul and all these things. so i think at the beginning, when i first came into fashion and people admired me for my looks, it felt a little bit of contradiction to my beliefs and what i grew up with. so... and then i learned... so, you know, you have to decide whether something can be very sexual. so i try to distance myself from that and not to do anything that i find to be sexualising me. i understand that bit, that you model in a very modest way. but you're still admired for your beauty, aren't you? and is that incompatible — by men and women, presumably, who will see your posts and your modelling appearances, and you still model. i don't think there's any problem with being admired for my beauty. the problem for me would be

if that admiration came from a sexual point — that, i'm not comfortable with. but you don't know whether it is from a sexual point or not, because, you know, who knows what people think when they see you? but, anyway, you became... i also feel, like, what other people... that's not my responsibility. i was not created to fit other people's opinions. so if somebody sees my beauty, my face, and are aroused by that, then that's their problem. all right. i just don't want to do anything sexual. ok, so you became a regular model in paris. you've been featured in elle norway, vogue arabia and lots of other magazines. and then in april this year, you posted a message called hands off my hijab, and that was in response to a proposed ban in france against girls under the age of 18 wearing the hijab in public places. and that really went viral, your social media post. so what was your reaction to that?

my reaction to the post? the response. what was your reaction to the response you got from your post? i was very pleased. i was very happy with it, because i knew that, you know, the good always outweighs the bad. and sometimes when you're in constant discrimination, you get this world view that everyone hates you or hate the people who look like you. so i wanted with that post to give people the opportunity to speak up and stand for my rights. and i also wanted the younger generation of muslim women growing up in the west to know that they're not alone. and sometimes these hateful rhetorics that are coming from government officials is just that, and your neighbour does not... not all women are against you. not all people in the society. and we all have a space to speak up. all right, 0k. so let's look at the fashion industry, because you're fashion editor of the soon—to—be—launched vogue scandinavia, and the fashion industry is a business, isn't it?

i mean, it takes advertising from alcohol brands. the hijab—wearing modest fashion is an industry reckoned to be worth hundreds of billions. are you comfortable with that side of the world that you're in, the kind of business side, the sponsorship and all that? oh, yes, the sponsorships are very different, so there are the ones that you said are alcohol, and they do all these advertisements, but you have to choose the ones that are aligned with who you are. and i think fashion is always going to be a business, whether we muslims participate in it from a position point of view, because we are consumers, we are buying these clothing. so i think it's time for us to have an opinion and have our voices in, you know, the decision—making process or how even the advertisements are going to be. because if we are not in the room making these advertisements, they're not going to be something that resonates us, then they're just

going to make money off our way of dressing and the money's not going back into our communities. so are you going to find a way that you can achieve all that? that... you say you want to make fashion more inclusive, are you going to try and get a ban on alcohol advertising in vogue scandinavia? you're going to try and make sure...? no, no, no, absolutely. i have nothing to do with alcohol advertising. i'm a fashion editor, so what i do is in fashion, and the subjects that i want to focus on. now, what are the ads the magazine has, that is for my editor in chief to decide. all right. if i go to a restaurant, i want to eat fish because i don't want to eat pork. but that doesn't mean i can go to the restaurant and ban them from selling alcohol. ok, you made that clear. so you want to make fashion more inclusive. what do you mean by that? imean, is... fashion now has... they have worked to having diversity, but the further, the next step would be inclusivity. and that means having work environments where people from different backgrounds

are actually valued and are able to voice their opinion and have influential voice in fashion and also being in the process of making the decisions that matter, and notjust tokenism. they have black models going the runway and asians, but then no—one in the creative work that are from a diverse background. but you also say that you want to use your platform to overturn deeply—rooted stereotypes, in particular about muslim women. so how are you going to go about that? how are you going to achieve that particular part of your mission? it's having all these engaging debates with the people who make these decisions, whether it's the pr or it's the brand or the magazines. you have to be in the room where the conversations are happening. and hopefully by me being there and taking up this would also give them the opportunity to reflect on how they see other people and how they are handling the muslim clients who come in or the muslim bloggers and whoever they see. all right.

what about, for instance, the somali—born model waris dirie is very outspoken about fgm, female genital mutilation, and 98% of girls, according to unicef, have to undergo this abhorrent practice in somalia. so she uses her platform to campaign against that. will you use your platform to do something similar against fgm or early marriage? so you're also trying to change perceptions of what it means to be muslim and female, not only in the west, but also in africa, in somalia and other places where these practices take place? yes, absolutely, ithink everyone who is a visible muslim and have the platform, we all have the responsibility to, you know... the way i see it is if i'm vocal and if i'm strong in my opinions, it will help the conversations that the young girls can have. and, you know, they won't be silenced because they have someone who looks up to them,

who also speaks up. and yes, of course, we have to have these conversations in our communities. i can'tjust stand up to the system. i also have to stand up to my communities and the people that are holding the women down. but absolutely, this is an area of activism that i am working towards in the future. in the near future, that is something that i would love to do. how far do you see it as part of your mandate and mission to tackle sexist depictions of women, regardless of whether they are muslim or not? because you've said, "just as i would never take off my hijab, other women have considered whether or not they would, for example, take their tops off in a shoot." and, you know, you hear stories about some models perhaps being pushed to reveal more flesh than they wanted to. so is that important for you that you get this message across the industry? yes, absolutely. i think it has to be for all women, especially the models. you know, i always say there's this constant struggle with self—integrity. how far are you willing to go for the brand? and you're always put in situations where there

is a pressure you have to do it in that moment. no—one is going to discuss it with you beforehand. so these are the conversations that i have with my colleagues, my model colleagues, to how we can set the... and i mean... what is that word in english? sorry. set the limit to what we want to do. but is it always about sexual objectification? because the us designer tom ford says even if a woman is wearing a low cut dress and flashing more cleavage than is appropriate, is she simply embracing her body, her confidence and her sexuality? does he have a point? the point is what the woman is comfortable with. if a model wants to do that and that empowers her, then of course, there's no question, she can do whatever she wants. but the problem lies in the models who don't want to do it. so instead of booking the girls that are empowered by this sort of image, they won't do it. it's almost like... almost like they enjoy testing the boundaries of the people

that say no. right? for instance, they don't need to ask me if i can take off the hijab. they can just hire a black woman to do it so they can have the skin they're looking for or the features, but that's not what they want. what they want is to see how much they can break you. and that is the problem. all right. finally, you've talked a lot about the problems in fashion, but i put it to you that actually fashion�*s come a long way, hasn't it? you've got the british ghanaian edward enninful who is editor of british vogue. you've got lots of models of colour on the runways, in magazines. gucci has used a model with down�*s syndrome for one of its fashion campaigns. and the fashion critic of the washington post in the us, robin givhan, says in may this year, "diversity on the runway is much more part of the norm." finally, things are not that bad in fashion, are they? well, you know, if it wasn't forfashion being progressive, people like me wouldn't be in the position that i am today. so, absolutely, fashion have come a far way. but that doesn't mean

that the process needs to stop now and we self—celebrate and be finished with the work. there are a lot of diversity in fashion right now, but what we're pushing forward is inclusivity where our voices matter and we're not just some tokenism. we look good on the runway but no—one is really listening to us or is willing to do the advertising so that it resonates with the muslim or black or, you know, any ethnic minority background. what i'm pushing forward or hoping in the future is that it's notjust a trend, it's notjust something that is happening right now. and in orderfor it to not be a trend, the people in the background who are doing the actual work, they have to be diverse as well. rawdah mohamed, it's been a pleasure having you on hardtalk. thank you very much indeed. thank you for having me.

hello there. we're finally going to see some changes to the weather this week and into next week things look quite different. but in the short term we are ending the week on a similar note with this area of high pressure continuing to bring in a lot of cloud. on a similar note with this area of high pressure will continue to bring in a lot of cloud across the uk with limited clear spells. there will be a few glimmers of brightness around, particularly western scotland in the morning but generally a cloudy start. in to the afternoon favoured spots to see some sunshine developing more widley will again be across scotland, northern england and parts of northern ireland and also southern england towards south wales and this is where we will see the highest temperatures in the low 20s. otherwise where we hold onto the cloud, it will be around the mid to high teens for most. as we head through friday night it looks like it's going to be another cloudy one.

across central and northern areas with clear spells across the south. but temperature wise, no more than ten to 14 celsius. we are starting to importing our winds from a more southeasterly direction to start the weekend as our area of high pressure finally begins to retreat eastwards. it looks like it will bring some slightly drier air in from the near continent. we should see some holes in the cloud from the word go across central and southern areas. some sunny spells here with further north varying amounts of cloud and a little bit of sunshine but generally a lot of cloud. could see a few showers across southern and western areas into the afternoon but many places will be dry. temperatures around 21 or 22 for the high around the high teens though further north and east with the cloud. for sunday we see this feature runs to the northwest of the country. that's going to bring thicker cloud, more of a breeze, out breaks of rain, northen irleand, northwest england and northwest wales later in the day.

some of this rain could be quite heavy. further south, it is a drier picture for sunday afternoon, lighter winds coming in from france. and we should see increasing amounts of sunshine into the afternoon. temperatures responding to 2a degrees in the south. obviously because of more cloud and the rain in the north and not quite as warm. and next week, we'll will start to import some warmer air the continent and some southern areas across the south on monday and tuesday, given some sunshine we could see those temperatures creeping around the mid 20 celsius and a little bit warmer and further north too.

welcome to newsday, reporting live from singapore, i'm karishma vaswani. the headlines: more than a0 people are dead, after record rainfall causes flash flooding across the north—east of america. a british—born member of the islamic state group pleads guilty to charges of conspiring to murder american hostages in syria. in afghanistan, a new normal, with the taliban setting up a government, as those who still want to get out await their future. so many afghans wondering, worrying, what kind of new government will emerge with all of its rules and regulation?