hello and welcome to the programme which brings together some of the uk's leading commentators, bbc specialists, and the journalists who write, blog and broadcast from the dateline: london. this week — back to school — back to covid? afghanistan after america and the dateline panel mark withe news that's worrying them. the "they" this week are steve richards, author of the prime ministers we never had — and after 30 years in the highways and byeways of westminster, he should know. eunice goes is a portgusese journalist and academic.

with me in the studio is bbc health editor, hugh pym. here in the uk, covid has quietly slipped down news programme running orders. during the summer, newspapers and website front pages have had other headlines — olympic and paralympic glory, and of course afghanistan. it was scotland s first minister who brought us up sharp, tuesday, when she told the scottish parliament that cases had increased by 80% in a week. scotland has just recorded its highest daily rate of infections since the pandemic began. pupils returned to school in mid—august. will other parts of the uk now experience a similar rise in cases as the term begins there? perhaps mindful of the anger on display in city streets in a country like australia, uk political leaders say they don t want to lockdown again, so what sort of winter awaits here in the northern hemisphere, and can the global south expect some relief?

first of all, looking at the uk, what are the statistics telling us at the moment? what sort of picture is emerging about covid now we have endured that dealt variant for quite a few months?— endured that dealt variant for quite a few months? well, case number sr is essentially — a few months? well, case number sr is essentially fairly _ a few months? well, case number sr is essentially fairly flat. _ a few months? well, case number sr is essentially fairly flat. they - a few months? well, case number sr is essentially fairly flat. they are - is essentially fairly flat. they are not going up dramatically or falling sharply in the uk, and that is... when schools have gone back, as we have just noted, apparently, when schools have gone back, as we havejust noted, apparently, the reason for increases there. in england, and other parts of the uk, schools have been going back in recent days and into next week and beyond. so, the key thing is how that may or may not change case numbers. �* ., , ,

that may or may not change case numbers. �* . , , ., numbers. and there has been a decision on friday, _ numbers. and there has been a decision on friday, or— numbers. and there has been a decision on friday, or at - numbers. and there has been a decision on friday, or at least l numbers. and there has been a decision on friday, or at least aj decision on friday, or at least a decision on friday, or at least a decision to look further at the evidence for vaccinating children, at least teenaged children, but what is the thinking behind that? there is the thinking behind that? there is a really important _ is the thinking behind that? there is a really important decision - is the thinking behind that? there is a really important decision by l is a really important decision by the uk, the expert committee, the joint committee on vaccination and immunisation, independent, was asked to say what are the benefits and risks of vaccinations for 12—15 —year—olds. and they have come up with a rather qualified conclusion, which is that the health benefits marginally outweigh the risks, but they are not going to go any further than that. in the past, they have given the thumbs up to 16 and 17 euros and other groups before that. so the result of that is that the uk's chief medical officer as well now have to draw up their guidelines for parents and families in different parts of the uk. so i rather a strange turn there, given that in the us, for example, france and canada, they have gone in i had with injecting 12—year—olds a while

ago. so it shows that there is still quite a lively debate on whether it is a good idea. i quite a lively debate on whether it is a good idea-— quite a lively debate on whether it is a good idea. i want to come back to the question _ is a good idea. i want to come back to the question of _ is a good idea. i want to come back to the question of further _ is a good idea. i want to come back to the question of further doses forj to the question of further doses for people who have been vaccinated already, because that is quite a lively debate in this country and others. let me ask you first of all about the picture in continental europe. have they overcome the early difficulties in terms of vaccinating their populations?— difficulties in terms of vaccinating their populations? well, they have. it was a their populations? well, they have. it was a very _ their populations? well, they have. it was a very slow _ their populations? well, they have. it was a very slow start _ their populations? well, they have. it was a very slow start for - their populations? well, they have. it was a very slow start for them - their populations? well, they have. it was a very slow start for them to | it was a very slow start for them to vaccination — it was a very slow start for them to vaccination roll—out programme in eurone, _ vaccination roll—out programme in europe, and — vaccination roll—out programme in europe, and that was largely due to the lack— europe, and that was largely due to the lack of— europe, and that was largely due to the lack of doses of vaccine. that has been — the lack of doses of vaccine. that has been overcome, and the eu has already— has been overcome, and the eu has already vaccinated up 70% of its population. in some countries, like particle. _ population. in some countries, like particle, they had vaccinated 73% of the population has received two vaccines, —

the population has received two vaccines, 83% has received one vaccine — vaccines, 83% has received one vaccine. but this contrasts happily with a _ vaccine. but this contrasts happily with a country like bulgaria who has vaccinated _ with a country like bulgaria who has vaccinated less than 20%, so it's a rather— vaccinated less than 20%, so it's a rather mixed picture that tells us something about different health care programmes that have well—established or less well established vaccination programmes, and of— established vaccination programmes, and of course, the whole issue about the scepticism about vaccines, the scepticism — the scepticism about vaccines, the scepticism about science and the world _ scepticism about science and the world health organization actually warned _ world health organization actually warned us this week about the dangers— warned us this week about the dangers of not progressing with the vaccination programme and the danger as well_ vaccination programme and the danger as well of— vaccination programme and the danger as well of the anti—vax movements that are _ as well of the anti—vax movements that are growing in europe and are stalling _ that are growing in europe and are stalling the whole vaccination programme. stalling the whole vaccination programme-— stalling the whole vaccination rouramme. ,, . ., , ., ., programme. steve richards, what do ou make programme. steve richards, what do you make of — programme. steve richards, what do you make of the _ programme. steve richards, what do you make of the opportunity - programme. steve richards, what do you make of the opportunity britain l you make of the opportunity britain has had during the summer, and i wonder what the british government has done what that opportunity in

yourjudgment, of if you like a pause in hostilities with quebec. you know, the benefits of the weather, the benefits of people being displaced from big population centres, the benefits of kids not being at school. have they made use of that opportunity at all? it depends what you mean by making use of. it depends what you mean by making use of it seems— depends what you mean by making use of it seems to — depends what you mean by making use of. it seems to be, _ depends what you mean by making use of. it seems to be, had _ depends what you mean by making use of. it seems to be, had a _ of. it seems to be, had a conversation _ of. it seems to be, had a conversation with- of. it seems to be, had a conversation with a - of. it seems to be, had a conversation with a veryl of. it seems to be, had a - conversation with a very senior politician — conversation with a very senior politician from _ conversation with a very senior politician from scotland - conversation with a very senior politician from scotland in - conversation with a very senior politician from scotland in mid| politician from scotland in mid august. — politician from scotland in mid august. a _ politician from scotland in mid august. a very— politician from scotland in mid august, a very sharp - politician from scotland in mid august, a very sharp reader. politician from scotland in mid august, a very sharp reader of politics. — august, a very sharp reader of politics. and _ august, a very sharp reader of politics, and he _ august, a very sharp reader of politics, and he said, - august, a very sharp reader of politics, and he said, "you - august, a very sharp reader of. politics, and he said, "you watch, when _ politics, and he said, "you watch, when the — politics, and he said, "you watch, when the schools _ politics, and he said, "you watch, when the schools go _ politics, and he said, "you watch, when the schools go back - when the schools go back in scotland. _ when the schools go back in scotland, earlier— when the schools go back in scotland, earlier of- when the schools go back in scotland, earlier of christ. when the schools go back in i scotland, earlier of christ and england. _ scotland, earlier of christ and england. and— scotland, earlier of christ and england, and the _ scotland, earlier of christ and england, and the whole - scotland, earlier of christ and england, and the whole thing| scotland, earlier of christ and - england, and the whole thing will start searching _ england, and the whole thing will start searching again." _ england, and the whole thing will start searching again." and - england, and the whole thing will start searching again." and that i england, and the whole thing will| start searching again." and that is what _ start searching again." and that is what has — start searching again." and that is what has happened _ start searching again." and that is what has happened in— start searching again." and that is what has happened in scotland . start searching again." and that isl what has happened in scotland and that will— what has happened in scotland and that will probably _ what has happened in scotland and that will probably happen - what has happened in scotland and that will probably happen in - that will probably happen in england _ that will probably happen in england. and he— that will probably happen in england. and he said - that will probably happen in england. and he said the i that will probably happen in - england. and he said the solution is clear. _ england. and he said the solution is clear. you _ england. and he said the solution is clear. you do — england. and he said the solution is clear, you do have _ england. and he said the solution is clear, you do have to _ england. and he said the solution is clear, you do have to vaccinate - clear, you do have to vaccinate schoolchildren, _ clear, you do have to vaccinate schoolchildren, certainly- clear, you do have to vaccinate - schoolchildren, certainly teenagers. so that _ schoolchildren, certainly teenagers. so that is _ schoolchildren, certainly teenagers. so that is one — schoolchildren, certainly teenagers. so that is one thing, _ schoolchildren, certainly teenagers. so that is one thing, as— schoolchildren, certainly teenagers. so that is one thing, as if— so that is one thing, as if indicated, _ so that is one thing, as if indicated, sort _ so that is one thing, as if indicated, sort of - so that is one thing, as if indicated, sort of in - so that is one thing, as if indicated, sort of in the i so that is one thing, as if. indicated, sort of in the air so that is one thing, as if- indicated, sort of in the air at the moment, — indicated, sort of in the air at the moment, whereas _ indicated, sort of in the air at the moment, whereas it— indicated, sort of in the air at the moment, whereas it seems- indicated, sort of in the air at the moment, whereas it seems to i indicated, sort of in the air at thei moment, whereas it seems to me indicated, sort of in the air at the - moment, whereas it seems to me that is one _ moment, whereas it seems to me that is one route _ moment, whereas it seems to me that is one route that — moment, whereas it seems to me that is one route that can _ moment, whereas it seems to me that is one route that can perhaps - is one route that can perhaps address— is one route that can perhaps address some _ is one route that can perhaps address some of— is one route that can perhaps address some of the - is one route that can perhaps . address some of the immediate is one route that can perhaps - address some of the immediate fears of the _ address some of the immediate fears

of the item _ address some of the immediate fears of the item. beyond _ address some of the immediate fears of the item. beyond that, _ address some of the immediate fears of the item. beyond that, i— address some of the immediate fears of the item. beyond that, i think- address some of the immediate fears of the item. beyond that, i think we i of the item. beyond that, i think we are in— of the item. beyond that, i think we are in a _ of the item. beyond that, i think we are in a curious— of the item. beyond that, i think we are in a curious position, _ of the item. beyond that, i think we are in a curious position, one - of the item. beyond that, i think we are in a curious position, one i- are in a curious position, one i read _ are in a curious position, one i read of— are in a curious position, one i read of a — are in a curious position, one i read of a scientist, _ are in a curious position, one i read of a scientist, he - are in a curious position, one i read of a scientist, he will- are in a curious position, one i. read of a scientist, he will know much _ read of a scientist, he will know much more. _ read of a scientist, he will know much more. one _ read of a scientist, he will know much more, one of— read of a scientist, he will know much more, one of them - read of a scientist, he will know much more, one of them are i much more, one of them are optimistic— much more, one of them are optimistic scientists- much more, one of them are optimistic scientists saying . much more, one of them arel optimistic scientists saying he much more, one of them are - optimistic scientists saying he has never— optimistic scientists saying he has never had — optimistic scientists saying he has never had more _ optimistic scientists saying he has never had more doubt _ optimistic scientists saying he has never had more doubt about - optimistic scientists saying he has never had more doubt about what| never had more doubt about what might— never had more doubt about what might happen _ never had more doubt about what might happen next _ never had more doubt about what might happen next in _ never had more doubt about what might happen next in the - never had more doubt about what might happen next in the uk - never had more doubt about what might happen next in the uk then never had more doubt about what i might happen next in the uk then at the moment — might happen next in the uk then at the moment so _ might happen next in the uk then at the moment. so it— might happen next in the uk then at the moment. so it is— might happen next in the uk then at the moment. so it is certainly- might happen next in the uk then at the moment. so it is certainly a - the moment. so it is certainly a period — the moment. so it is certainly a period where _ the moment. so it is certainly a period where you _ the moment. so it is certainly a period where you cannot - the moment. so it is certainly a period where you cannot say, . the moment. so it is certainly a . period where you cannot say, well, we are _ period where you cannot say, well, we are through _ period where you cannot say, well, we are through all _ period where you cannot say, well, we are through all of _ period where you cannot say, well, we are through all of this, - period where you cannot say, well, we are through all of this, by- period where you cannot say, well, we are through all of this, by any. we are through all of this, by any means, _ we are through all of this, by any means, but— we are through all of this, by any means, but given _ we are through all of this, by any means, but given that _ we are through all of this, by any means, but given that it - we are through all of this, by any means, but given that it is - we are through all of this, by any means, but given that it is a - means, but given that it is a vaccine lead _ means, but given that it is a vaccine lead recovery- means, but given that it is a vaccine lead recovery in - means, but given that it is a vaccine lead recovery in thei means, but given that it is a - vaccine lead recovery in the uk and not a _ vaccine lead recovery in the uk and not a constraint _ vaccine lead recovery in the uk and not a constraint led _ vaccine lead recovery in the uk and not a constraint led recovery, - vaccine lead recovery in the uk and not a constraint led recovery, i- not a constraint led recovery, i think— not a constraint led recovery, i think the — not a constraint led recovery, i think the argument _ not a constraint led recovery, i think the argument for- not a constraint led recovery, i. think the argument for vaccinating teenagers — think the argument for vaccinating teenagers well _ think the argument for vaccinating teenagers well intensify _ think the argument for vaccinating teenagers well intensify in - think the argument for vaccinating teenagers well intensify in the - teenagers well intensify in the coming — teenagers well intensify in the coming weeks _ teenagers well intensify in the coming weeks. just— teenagers well intensify in the coming weeks.— teenagers well intensify in the coming weeks. just picking up on exactly that _ coming weeks. just picking up on exactly that point _ coming weeks. just picking up on exactly that point about - coming weeks. just picking up on exactly that point about this - coming weeks. just picking up on | exactly that point about this being a vaccine led recovery, the question has arisen about should the fortunate people in the uk who have had one or two doses get a third dose, a booster vaccine is not because there is some evidence that although limited, emerging from israel, for example, vaccinated so much earlier than many other

countries that may be the effectiveness of vaccines can wayne. yes committee effectiveness can wayne according to that research in israel and in other countries as well, but this fairly positive data following the boosterjabs such had been rolled out in israel, so, the key thing for the uk is whether to do the same. a decision has been made about those with suppressed... but will it be rolled out to the wider population starting with older age groups? that is a decision which has not been announced. it touches on the whole issue of inequality, shed wealthy nations should be getting these doses when in africa, for example, less than 2% of populations have had any form of fall vaccination, and i think the world health organization is a bit split on this. some see the benefits coming into the winter with the most vulnerable people getting a third

vaccine, but what about the issue of the supplies and others i think i'm actually, this should be put on hold until they are further vaccination efforts worldwide. it’s until they are further vaccination efforts worldwide.— efforts worldwide. it's also interesting _ efforts worldwide. it's also interesting to _ efforts worldwide. it's also interesting to see - efforts worldwide. it's also interesting to see a - efforts worldwide. it's also l interesting to see a number efforts worldwide. it's also - interesting to see a number of countries, they strategies that seemed effective seem not so effective now measured against the impact of the delta variant. i am thinking of test and trace in vietnam which was kind of a world leader whichjust vietnam which was kind of a world leader which just hasn't been able to keep up with the pace of infection. a minister in the new zealand government saying, like in our policy of isolation and then locked down as soon as the case arises rapidly isn't going to work for much longer if you can debate how effective it has been already. of grace and i was mentioning the introduction, those protests in australia that seem to be getting bigger and more widespread. do you worry that we are almost vaccine notwithstanding a sense of almost back to square one with our battle with this infection? i back to square one with our battle with this infection?— with this infection? i don't think we're back— with this infection? i don't think we're back to — with this infection? i don't think

we're back to square _ with this infection? i don't think we're back to square one - with this infection? i don't think i we're back to square one because with this infection? i don't think - we're back to square one because of the vaccine — we're back to square one because of the vaccine, however, as you suggest. _ the vaccine, however, as you suggest, the variance, each one throws — suggest, the variance, each one throws up — suggest, the variance, each one throws up fresh challenges, and so the assumptions that one particular variant— the assumptions that one particular variant was— the assumptions that one particular variant was being addressed by either— variant was being addressed by either the sort of rigid lockdowns in new_ either the sort of rigid lockdowns in new zealand and to some extent australia, _ in new zealand and to some extent australia, can be immediately turned on its _ australia, can be immediately turned on its head _ australia, can be immediately turned on its head high another other variants — on its head high another other variants which, you know, one person has it— variants which, you know, one person has it in— variants which, you know, one person has it in new— variants which, you know, one person has it in new zealand, suddenly 50 do. so, _ has it in new zealand, suddenly 50 do. so, there needs to be a combination of constant improvisation and forensic analysis of what _ improvisation and forensic analysis of what is — improvisation and forensic analysis of what is happening and what is the best way— of what is happening and what is the best way through, but what is clear to me _ best way through, but what is clear to me from — best way through, but what is clear to me from this discussion and follows— to me from this discussion and follows my instinct anyway is that the idea _ follows my instinct anyway is that the idea that we are through this, that this — the idea that we are through this, that this is — the idea that we are through this, that this is a sort of and isjust so premature because there will be other— so premature because there will be other variants at certain points, and they— other variants at certain points, and they might challenge the

vaccines that are currently being implemented, so, yeah, ithink governments around the world are in a state _ governments around the world are in a state of— governments around the world are in a state of flux about how to deal with this — a state of flux about how to deal with this. a return to the norm, as in pre—pandemic is still some way off. in pre—pandemic is still some way off i_ in pre—pandemic is still some way off ijust— in pre—pandemic is still some way off. ijust picking up on that, a number— off. ijust picking up on that, a number of— off. ijust picking up on that, a number of world leaders have said to us, boris _ number of world leaders have said to us, borisjohnson in this country, plenty— us, borisjohnson in this country, plenty of— us, borisjohnson in this country, plenty of others around the globe, we are going to have to learn to live with us. how far away do you think we are from that point of learning to live with covid ed?— with covid ed? well, i think there are still quite _ with covid ed? well, i think there are still quite a _ with covid ed? well, i think there are still quite a few _ with covid ed? well, i think there are still quite a few lessons - with covid ed? well, i think there are still quite a few lessons to - with covid ed? well, i think there are still quite a few lessons to be| are still quite a few lessons to be learned, — are still quite a few lessons to be learned, because _ are still quite a few lessons to be learned, because it _ are still quite a few lessons to be learned, because it depends- are still quite a few lessons to be learned, because it depends very much _ learned, because it depends very much what — learned, because it depends very much what we _ learned, because it depends very much what we mean _ learned, because it depends very much what we mean by - learned, because it depends very much what we mean by learningl learned, because it depends very i much what we mean by learning to live with _ much what we mean by learning to live with covid. _ much what we mean by learning to live with covid. as _ much what we mean by learning to live with covid. as such, _ much what we mean by learning to live with covid. as such, you - much what we mean by learning to| live with covid. as such, you know, letting _ live with covid. as such, you know, letting the — live with covid. as such, you know, letting the virus _ live with covid. as such, you know, letting the virus spread _ live with covid. as such, you know, letting the virus spread and - live with covid. as such, you know, letting the virus spread and do - letting the virus spread and do nothing — letting the virus spread and do nothing and _ letting the virus spread and do nothing and let _ letting the virus spread and do nothing and let so—called - letting the virus spread and do nothing and let so—called herd| nothing and let so—called herd immunity— nothing and let so—called herd immunity take _ nothing and let so—called herd immunity take place? - nothing and let so—called herd immunity take place? 0r- nothing and let so—called herd i immunity take place? 0r learning live with — immunity take place? 0r learning live with covid _ immunity take place? 0r learning live with covid means _ immunity take place? 0r learning live with covid means accepting l immunity take place? 0r learning i live with covid means accepting that we need _ live with covid means accepting that we need to— live with covid means accepting that we need to put— live with covid means accepting that we need to put in— live with covid means accepting that we need to put in place _ live with covid means accepting that we need to put in place mitigating . we need to put in place mitigating measures. — we need to put in place mitigating measures. you _ we need to put in place mitigating measures, you know, _ we need to put in place mitigating measures, you know, from - we need to put in place mitigating. measures, you know, from wearing face and _ measures, you know, from wearing face and enclosed _ measures, you know, from wearing face and enclosed public _ measures, you know, from wearing

face and enclosed public places. . face and enclosed public places. installing — face and enclosed public places. installing good—quality - face and enclosed public places. i installing good—quality ventilation and and _ installing good—quality ventilation and and offices _ installing good—quality ventilation and and offices and _ installing good—quality ventilation and and offices and so _ installing good—quality ventilation and and offices and so on. - installing good—quality ventilation. and and offices and so on. enabling people _ and and offices and so on. enabling people to _ and and offices and so on. enabling people to work _ and and offices and so on. enabling people to work from _ and and offices and so on. enabling people to work from home - and and offices and so on. enabling people to work from home so - and and offices and so on. enablingl people to work from home so hybrid forms— people to work from home so hybrid forms of— people to work from home so hybrid forms of working. _ people to work from home so hybrid forms of working. all _ people to work from home so hybrid forms of working. all of _ people to work from home so hybrid forms of working. all of this, - people to work from home so hybrid forms of working. all of this, and i forms of working. all of this, and in keeping — forms of working. all of this, and in keeping as— forms of working. all of this, and in keeping as well, _ forms of working. all of this, and in keeping as well, testing - forms of working. all of this, and l in keeping as well, testing systems in keeping as well, testing systems in place. _ in keeping as well, testing systems in place. so — in keeping as well, testing systems in place, so allowing _ in keeping as well, testing systems in place, so allowing people - in keeping as well, testing systems in place, so allowing people to- in place, so allowing people to isolate — in place, so allowing people to isolate until— in place, so allowing people to isolate until they _ in place, so allowing people to isolate until they have - in place, so allowing people to isolate until they have the - in place, so allowing people to. isolate until they have the results of a negative _ isolate until they have the results of a negative coping _ isolate until they have the results of a negative coping test, - isolate until they have the results of a negative coping test, if- isolate until they have the results of a negative coping test, if theyl of a negative coping test, if they had been — of a negative coping test, if they had been in _ of a negative coping test, if they had been in touch _ of a negative coping test, if they had been in touch with _ of a negative coping test, if theyl had been in touch with somebody of a negative coping test, if they - had been in touch with somebody with covid _ had been in touch with somebody with covid these _ had been in touch with somebody with covid. these are _ had been in touch with somebody with covid. these are the _ had been in touch with somebody with covid. these are the things _ had been in touch with somebody with covid. these are the things that - had been in touch with somebody with covid. these are the things that are i covid. these are the things that are disappearing — covid. these are the things that are disappearing from _ covid. these are the things that are disappearing from the _ covid. these are the things that are disappearing from the united - disappearing from the united kingdom, _ disappearing from the united kingdom, and _ disappearing from the united kingdom, and i— disappearing from the united kingdom, and i think- disappearing from the united kingdom, and i think these l disappearing from the united i kingdom, and i think these are disappearing from the united - kingdom, and i think these are the things— kingdom, and i think these are the things that — kingdom, and i think these are the things that may— kingdom, and i think these are the things that may lead _ kingdom, and i think these are the things that may lead to _ kingdom, and i think these are the things that may lead to a - kingdom, and i think these are the things that may lead to a very- things that may lead to a very massive — things that may lead to a very massive surge _ things that may lead to a very massive surge in— things that may lead to a very massive surge in the - things that may lead to a very massive surge in the numberl things that may lead to a very. massive surge in the number of things that may lead to a very- massive surge in the number of cases that may— massive surge in the number of cases that may lead — massive surge in the number of cases that may lead to, _ massive surge in the number of cases that may lead to, well, _ massive surge in the number of cases that may lead to, well, yet— massive surge in the number of cases that may lead to, well, yet another. that may lead to, well, yet another christmas — that may lead to, well, yet another christmas spent _ that may lead to, well, yet another christmas spent under— that may lead to, well, yet another christmas spent under lockdown. l that may lead to, well, yet anotherl christmas spent under lockdown. so learning _ christmas spent under lockdown. so learning to _ christmas spent under lockdown. so learning to live — christmas spent under lockdown. so learning to live with _ christmas spent under lockdown. so learning to live with covid _ christmas spent under lockdown. so learning to live with covid means - learning to live with covid means learning — learning to live with covid means learning to — learning to live with covid means learning to accept _ learning to live with covid means learning to accept that _ learning to live with covid means learning to accept that in - learning to live with covid means learning to accept that in order l learning to live with covid meansl learning to accept that in order to have _ learning to accept that in order to have some — learning to accept that in order to have some form _ learning to accept that in order to have some form of— learning to accept that in order to have some form of normality, - learning to accept that in order to| have some form of normality, and that's— have some form of normality, and that's not — have some form of normality, and that's not going _ have some form of normality, and that's not going to _ have some form of normality, and that's not going to be _ have some form of normality, and that's not going to be the - have some form of normality, and i that's not going to be the normality of pre-pandemic_ that's not going to be the normality of pre—pandemic times, _ that's not going to be the normality of pre—pandemic times, we - that's not going to be the normality of pre—pandemic times, we need i of pre—pandemic times, we need to accept _ of pre—pandemic times, we need to accept that— of pre—pandemic times, we need to accept that our— of pre—pandemic times, we need to accept that our lives _ of pre—pandemic times, we need to accept that our lives are _ of pre—pandemic times, we need to accept that our lives are going - of pre—pandemic times, we need to accept that our lives are going to i accept that our lives are going to be lived — accept that our lives are going to be lived differently, _ accept that our lives are going to be lived differently, that- accept that our lives are going to be lived differently, that there i accept that our lives are going to be lived differently, that there isj be lived differently, that there is a price _ be lived differently, that there is a price to — be lived differently, that there is a price to pay— be lived differently, that there is a price to pay to— be lived differently, that there is a price to pay to be _ be lived differently, that there is a price to pay to be able - be lived differently, that there is a price to pay to be able to - be lived differently, that there is a price to pay to be able to meet our friends — a price to pay to be able to meet our friends and _ a price to pay to be able to meet our friends and our families - a price to pay to be able to meet our friends and our families to l a price to pay to be able to meetl our friends and our families to go to the _ our friends and our families to go

to the cinema _ our friends and our families to go to the cinema and _ our friends and our families to go to the cinema and restaurants - our friends and our families to goi to the cinema and restaurants and our friends and our families to go - to the cinema and restaurants and to work as— to the cinema and restaurants and to work as well— to the cinema and restaurants and to work as well and _ to the cinema and restaurants and to work as well and to keep _ to the cinema and restaurants and to work as well and to keep our- to the cinema and restaurants and to. work as well and to keep our economy going _ work as well and to keep our economy going that _ work as well and to keep our economy going that there — work as well and to keep our economy going that there are _ work as well and to keep our economy going that there are certain— work as well and to keep our economy going that there are certain things - going that there are certain things that we _ going that there are certain things that we need _ going that there are certain things that we need to _ going that there are certain things that we need to change _ going that there are certain things that we need to change in - going that there are certain things that we need to change in the - going that there are certain things that we need to change in the way that we need to change in the way that we _ that we need to change in the way that we live — that we need to change in the way that we live-— that we need to change in the way that we live._ to i that we live. last thoughts? to build on steve's _ that we live. last thoughts? to build on steve's point, - that we live. last thoughts? to build on steve's point, it - that we live. last thoughts? to build on steve's point, it will. that we live. last thoughts? to | build on steve's point, it will be very uncertain, at least two the winter, because of influenza, there was on the no —— there was almost no influenza during the first few waves of covid, that means there is less immunity. you've got winter with my respiratory viruses around, and you've got more people indoors, mixing indoors, so, again, picking up mixing indoors, so, again, picking up on a previous point, it is so hard to predict how people will behave in the winter, and crowded into our set ups, and we know that the vaccine is very, very effective, but against the delta variant to me can be double jabs and still get the virus can even if it doesn't make you as sick as it would have done without vaccination.— you as sick as it would have done without vaccination. thank you very much. captured in the eerie green glow of military night vision, like a ghost not a soldier, major general chris donahue climbed aboard a us airforce c17.

for all the jeering from joe biden s critics, midnight monday in kabul didn t look like the fall of saigon. after all, this wasn t the repudiation of a decades—long us strategy, as the end of the vietnam war has been, but the coda to an engagement which began thousands of miles away above the streets of manhattan, the pentagon and a field in pennsylvania. that anniversary, 9/11, will be marked for the 20th time next saturday. as americans and others look to their grief, what awaits the people of afghanistan? a government different from the one that the tally and lead before it was deposed 20 years ago, or is it really the same all the ideology and the same old approach to ordinary life? ~ ~' the same old approach to ordinary life? ~ ~ �* , the same old approach to ordinary life? “ v , ~ , life? well, i think it's very early to make any — life? well, i think it's very early to make any assessment - life? well, i think it's very early to make any assessment of- life? well, i think it's very early to make any assessment of the | life? well, i think it's very early - to make any assessment of the nature of the _ to make any assessment of the nature of the new_ to make any assessment of the nature of the new taliban _ to make any assessment of the nature of the new taliban regime. _ to make any assessment of the nature of the new taliban regime. are - to make any assessment of the nature of the new taliban regime. are they. of the new taliban regime. are they really— of the new taliban regime. are they really different— of the new taliban regime. are they really different because _ of the new taliban regime. are they really different because my- of the new taliban regime. are they really different because my car- of the new taliban regime. are they really different because my car theyj really different because my car they need a? _

really different because my car they need a? they— really different because my car they need a? they have _ really different because my car they need a? they have been _ really different because my car they need a? they have been very- really different because my car they need a? they have been very busy. really different because my car they i need a? they have been very busy on a very— need a? they have been very busy on a very massive — need a? they have been very busy on a very massive, and _ need a? they have been very busy on a very massive, and to— need a? they have been very busy on a very massive, and to a _ need a? they have been very busy on a very massive, and to a certain - a very massive, and to a certain extent, — a very massive, and to a certain extent, successful— a very massive, and to a certain extent, successful pr _ a very massive, and to a certain extent, successful pr campaignj extent, successful pr campaign trying _ extent, successful pr campaign trying to— extent, successful pr campaign trying to convince _ extent, successful pr campaign trying to convince the _ extent, successful pr campaign trying to convince the west - extent, successful pr campaign trying to convince the west that they are — trying to convince the west that they are more _ trying to convince the west that they are more modern, - trying to convince the west that they are more modern, they. trying to convince the west thati they are more modern, they like drinking — they are more modern, they like drinking cappuccinos, _ they are more modern, they like drinking cappuccinos, they- they are more modern, they like drinking cappuccinos, they like i they are more modern, they likei drinking cappuccinos, they like to have _ drinking cappuccinos, they like to have cafes. — drinking cappuccinos, they like to have cafes, they— drinking cappuccinos, they like to have cafes, they are _ drinking cappuccinos, they like to have cafes, they are very- drinking cappuccinos, they like to have cafes, they are very good i drinking cappuccinos, they like to have cafes, they are very good atj have cafes, they are very good at using _ have cafes, they are very good at using social— have cafes, they are very good at using social media _ have cafes, they are very good at using social media stuff- have cafes, they are very good at using social media stuff they - have cafes, they are very good at using social media stuff they are i using social media stuff they are not going — using social media stuff they are not going to _ using social media stuff they are not going to crack _ using social media stuff they are not going to crack down - using social media stuff they are not going to crack down on - using social media stuff they are i not going to crack down on people watching _ not going to crack down on people watching television— not going to crack down on people watching television and _ not going to crack down on people watching television and so - not going to crack down on people watching television and so on, - not going to crack down on people watching television and so on, sol watching television and so on, so they are — watching television and so on, so they are trying _ watching television and so on, so they are trying to _ watching television and so on, so they are trying to show— watching television and so on, so they are trying to show that - they are trying to show that they are more — they are trying to show that they are more humane, _ they are trying to show that they are more humane, more- they are trying to show that they- are more humane, more westernised and so _ are more humane, more westernised and so on. _ are more humane, more westernised and so on, but there _ are more humane, more westernised and so on, but there are _ are more humane, more westernised and so on, but there are also - are more humane, more westernised and so on, but there are also signs. and so on, but there are also signs that the old — and so on, but there are also signs that the old taliban _ and so on, but there are also signs that the old taliban are _ and so on, but there are also signs that the old taliban are there, - and so on, but there are also signs that the old taliban are there, it i that the old taliban are there, it is still— that the old taliban are there, it is still a — that the old taliban are there, it is still a regime _ that the old taliban are there, it is still a regime that— that the old taliban are there, it is still a regime that does- that the old taliban are there, it is still a regime that does not. is still a regime that does not like women _ is still a regime that does not like women women— is still a regime that does not like women. women have _ is still a regime that does not like women. women have been - is still a regime that does not like women. women have been told l is still a regime that does not like l women. women have been told not is still a regime that does not like - women. women have been told not to come _ women. women have been told not to come back— women. women have been told not to come back to — women. women have been told not to come back to work, _ women. women have been told not to come back to work, especially - women. women have been told not to come back to work, especially those l come back to work, especially those working _ come back to work, especially those working as _ come back to work, especially those working asjudges, _ come back to work, especially those working asjudges, mayors, - come back to work, especially those working asjudges, mayors, germanj come back to work, especially those i working asjudges, mayors, german —— journalism _ working asjudges, mayors, german —— journalism and — working asjudges, mayors, german —— journalism and so — working asjudges, mayors, german —— journalism and so on, _ working asjudges, mayors, german —— journalism and so on, so _ working asjudges, mayors, german —— journalism and so on, so i _ working asjudges, mayors, german —— journalism and so on, so i think- working asjudges, mayors, german —— journalism and so on, so i think it - journalism and so on, so i think it remains _ journalism and so on, so i think it remains very— journalism and so on, so i think it remains very much _ journalism and so on, so i think it remains very much to _ journalism and so on, so i think it remains very much to be - journalism and so on, so i think it remains very much to be seen, i journalism and so on, so i think it. remains very much to be seen, but perhaps— remains very much to be seen, but perhaps more _ remains very much to be seen, but perhaps more important— remains very much to be seen, but perhaps more important than - remains very much to be seen, but perhaps more important than withl remains very much to be seen, but. perhaps more important than with the new regime _ perhaps more important than with the new regime is— perhaps more important than with the new regime is the _ perhaps more important than with the new regime is the new— perhaps more important than with the new regime is the new taliban - new regime is the new taliban different— new regime is the new taliban different than— new regime is the new taliban different than the _ new regime is the new taliban different than the old - new regime is the new taliban| different than the old taliban?

perhaps — different than the old taliban? perhaps what _ different than the old taliban? perhaps what this _ different than the old taliban? perhaps what this new - different than the old taliban? perhaps what this new taliban| perhaps what this new taliban will have to _ perhaps what this new taliban will have to adjust _ perhaps what this new taliban will have to adjust to _ perhaps what this new taliban will have to adjust to is _ perhaps what this new taliban will have to adjust to is to _ perhaps what this new taliban will have to adjust to is to a _ perhaps what this new taliban will have to adjust to is to a new- have to adjust to is to a new afghanistan, _ have to adjust to is to a new afghanistan, because - have to adjust to is to a new afghanistan, because we . have to adjust to is to a new. afghanistan, because we have a whole generation— afghanistan, because we have a whole generation of— afghanistan, because we have a whole generation of afghans _ afghanistan, because we have a whole generation of afghans who _ afghanistan, because we have a whole generation of afghans who were - afghanistan, because we have a whole generation of afghans who were born i generation of afghans who were born since 2001, _ generation of afghans who were born since 2001, they— generation of afghans who were born since 2001, they are _ generation of afghans who were born since 2001, they are adults. - generation of afghans who were born since 2001, they are adults. they - since 2001, they are adults. they have _ since 2001, they are adults. they have different _ since 2001, they are adults. they have different values. _ since 2001, they are adults. they have different values. they - since 2001, they are adults. they have different values. they havel have different values. they have different — have different values. they have different expectations _ have different values. they have different expectations as - have different values. they have different expectations as well. l have different values. they have . different expectations as well. and it will— different expectations as well. and it will be their _ different expectations as well. and it will be their reaction to - different expectations as well. and it will be their reaction to the newl it will be their reaction to the new regime _ it will be their reaction to the new regime that— it will be their reaction to the new regime that i— it will be their reaction to the new regime that i think— it will be their reaction to the new regime that i think is _ it will be their reaction to the new regime that i think is going - regime that i think is going to shape — regime that i think is going to shape what _ regime that i think is going to shape what that _ regime that i think is going to shape what that taliban - regime that i think is going to shape what that taliban will l regime that i think is going to. shape what that taliban will try regime that i think is going to - shape what that taliban will try to impose _ shape what that taliban will try to impose in— shape what that taliban will try to impose in society. _ shape what that taliban will try to impose in society. because - shape what that taliban will try to impose in society. because it- shape what that taliban will try to impose in society. because it will| impose in society. because it will be, impose in society. because it will be there — impose in society. because it will be there are _ impose in society. because it will be, there are already— impose in society. because it will be, there are already some - impose in society. because it will be, there are already some signsj be, there are already some signs that this — be, there are already some signs that this younger— be, there are already some signs that this younger generation - be, there are already some signs that this younger generation is l be, there are already some signs. that this younger generation is not ready— that this younger generation is not ready to _ that this younger generation is not ready to give — that this younger generation is not ready to give up _ that this younger generation is not ready to give up so _ that this younger generation is not ready to give up so easily - that this younger generation is not ready to give up so easily on - that this younger generation is not ready to give up so easily on the l ready to give up so easily on the freedoms, — ready to give up so easily on the freedoms, on— ready to give up so easily on the freedoms, on the _ ready to give up so easily on the freedoms, on the opportunitiesl ready to give up so easily on the - freedoms, on the opportunities they had in _ freedoms, on the opportunities they had in the _ freedoms, on the opportunities they had in the last— freedoms, on the opportunities they had in the last 20 _ freedoms, on the opportunities they had in the last 20 years, _ freedoms, on the opportunities they had in the last 20 years, and - freedoms, on the opportunities they had in the last 20 years, and they. had in the last 20 years, and they are ready— had in the last 20 years, and they are ready to— had in the last 20 years, and they are ready to fight _ had in the last 20 years, and they are ready to fight with _ had in the last 20 years, and they are ready to fight with them. - are ready to fight with them. now, how hard _ are ready to fight with them. now, how hard with _ are ready to fight with them. now, how hard with that _ are ready to fight with them. now, how hard with that taliban - how hard with that taliban crackdown on these _ how hard with that taliban crackdown on these protests, _ how hard with that taliban crackdown on these protests, we _ how hard with that taliban crackdown on these protests, we do— how hard with that taliban crackdown on these protests, we do not- how hard with that taliban crackdown on these protests, we do not know. i on these protests, we do not know. early _ on these protests, we do not know. early days — on these protests, we do not know. early days. but _ on these protests, we do not know. early days. but i _ on these protests, we do not know. early days. but i think— on these protests, we do not know. early days. but i think it _ on these protests, we do not know. early days. but i think it is - on these protests, we do not know. early days. but i think it is going. early days. but i think it is going to be the — early days. but i think it is going to be the relationship— early days. but i think it is going . to be the relationship between the one hand — to be the relationship between the one hand the — to be the relationship between the one hand the taliban— to be the relationship between the one hand the taliban regime - to be the relationship between the one hand the taliban regime and l to be the relationship between the . one hand the taliban regime and the afghan population _ one hand the taliban regime and the afghan population that _ one hand the taliban regime and the afghan population that is _ one hand the taliban regime and the afghan population that is going - one hand the taliban regime and the afghan population that is going to i afghan population that is going to shape _ afghan population that is going to shape the — afghan population that is going to shape the future _ afghan population that is going to shape the future afghan - afghan population that is going to - shape the future afghan government.

i shape the future afghan government. i think— shape the future afghan government. i think that _ shape the future afghan government. i think that quote _ shape the future afghan government. i think that quote mentioned - shape the future afghan government. i think that quote mentioned there i i think that quote mentioned there is along the lines of when then stay away from work until we have educated our fighters to respect women. i wonder if that is all part of the pr that eunice was referring to. the leadership spoke to the old guard of the regime that had departed, including the president. we had envoys sent to the valley where the strongest anti—taliban movement, the fighting has begun again barry, was it alljust show? well i personally am not qualified to make — well i personally am not qualified to make thatjudgment. i don't know the current— to make thatjudgment. i don't know the current makeup of the taliban. the other— the current makeup of the taliban. the other day and a public event, jonathan — the other day and a public event, jonathan powell, tony blair's chief of staff— jonathan powell, tony blair's chief of staff number ten who was of course — of staff number ten who was of course they are when britain was part of— course they are when britain was part of the — course they are when britain was part of the 2001 autumnal invasion of afghanistan and two since leaving office _ of afghanistan and two since leaving office has— of afghanistan and two since leaving office has worked very closely with

all kinds _ office has worked very closely with all kinds of people in afghanistan and continues to do so. and he told me that _ and continues to do so. and he told me that it— and continues to do so. and he told me that it is— and continues to do so. and he told me that it is absolutely the case that there — me that it is absolutely the case that there is an expedient wind and that there is an expedient wind and that taliban leadership and that that taliban leadership and that that is— that taliban leadership and that that is not for show, that like all political— that is not for show, that like all political forces, there are great internal— political forces, there are great internal divisions, and he was saying. — internal divisions, and he was saying, and i repeat this with a kind _ saying, and i repeat this with a kind of— saying, and i repeat this with a kind of approval, if you like, that there _ kind of approval, if you like, that there is— kind of approval, if you like, that there is a — kind of approval, if you like, that there is a responsibility to engage. he thinks— there is a responsibility to engage. he thinks it was a big mistake not to engage — he thinks it was a big mistake not to engage at the towel banning 2001, actually, _ to engage at the towel banning 2001, actually, to— to engage at the towel banning 2001, actually, to engage at the taliban and try— actually, to engage at the taliban and try and relate gauge with what he sees _ and try and relate gauge with what he sees as— and try and relate gauge with what he sees as the pragmatic wind. clearly— he sees as the pragmatic wind. clearly there are others who are wholly _ clearly there are others who are wholly unreconstructed in recent decades, — wholly unreconstructed in recent decades, but there is this possibility of an engagement with somei _ possibility of an engagement with some, and i repeat this because he is an— some, and i repeat this because he is an authority and i am not.-

is an authority and i am not. which is an authority and i am not. which is very candid _ is an authority and i am not. which is very candid view. _ is an authority and i am not. which is very candid view. as _ is an authority and i am not. which is very candid view. as health - is very candid view. as health editor, i am is very candid view. as health editor, iam hardly is very candid view. as health editor, i am hardly going to expect you to be an authority on the ideology and philosophy of taliban leadership, but let's start with practical question. this community who has arrived and you can do many other countries around the world, many of those people are highly qualified professionals, and in the case of the british nhs, they are doctors and nurses and others. are there many practical hurdles that would stop people with those kinds of qualifications actually practising here, and indeed in other western countries? i am practising here, and indeed in other western countries?— western countries? i am glad you asked me that, _ western countries? i am glad you asked me that, sean, _ western countries? i am glad you asked me that, sean, and - western countries? i am glad you asked me that, sean, and not - western countries? i am glad you - asked me that, sean, and not further developments on afghanistan can i would refer to our two colleagues on that. i think i may ask and it would be hugely valuable to the nhs, which for decades really almost since it was founded has needed doctors, nurses and other staff from other parts of the world, and they have greatly enriched the nhs and provided great service and skills. the general medical council, the main regulator has to look at the

qualifications and verify that they are suitable and that the qualifications match up what is required in the uk. and there are issues of language and of further trials, which could be a little bit complicated, but i think broadly speaking, if you have got really highly skilled health professionals who can show the right paperwork, then i'm sure it would be greatly welcome. ., . , then i'm sure it would be greatly welcome. ., , ., ., welcome. not least because we have a shortaae of welcome. not least because we have a shortage of them. _ welcome. not least because we have a shortage of them. just _ welcome. not least because we have a shortage of them. just a _ welcome. not least because we have a shortage of them. just a last _ shortage of them. just a last thought on this, there is a potential here, eunice, isn't there, to seize the opportunity of leverage, if we are going to talk to this taliban leadership, the economy is tanking, three quarters of the budget has gone because it was foreign aid money. we hear reports that, for example, cooking oil has just suddenly gone up 63%. this is a government that however much it taxes imports and exports at land borders and however much it boosts opium production, which ends up on the streets of other countries as harrowing time at the bottom line is they need money.

harrowing time at the bottom line is they need money-— harrowing time at the bottom line is they need money. well, the west has, of course, they need money. well, the west has, of course. some _ they need money. well, the west has, of course, some leverage, _ they need money. well, the west has, of course, some leverage, but - they need money. well, the west has, of course, some leverage, but aid - of course, some leverage, but aid money— of course, some leverage, but aid money only— of course, some leverage, but aid money only goes _ of course, some leverage, but aid money only goes so _ of course, some leverage, but aid money only goes so far, - of course, some leverage, but aid money only goes so far, and - of course, some leverage, but aid money only goes so far, and it - of course, some leverage, but aid money only goes so far, and it is. money only goes so far, and it is true _ money only goes so far, and it is true that— money only goes so far, and it is true that the _ money only goes so far, and it is true that the humanitarian - true that the humanitarian situation in afghanistan — true that the humanitarian situation in afghanistan at _ true that the humanitarian situation in afghanistan at the _ true that the humanitarian situation in afghanistan at the moment - true that the humanitarian situation in afghanistan at the moment is - in afghanistan at the moment is very. _ in afghanistan at the moment is very. very— in afghanistan at the moment is very. very dire _ in afghanistan at the moment is very. very dire i— in afghanistan at the moment is very, very dire. ithink- in afghanistan at the moment is very, very dire. i think the - in afghanistan at the moment isi very, very dire. i think the threat of hunger— very, very dire. i think the threat of hunger for— very, very dire. i think the threat of hunger for a _ very, very dire. i think the threat of hunger for a big _ very, very dire. i think the threat of hunger for a big chunk- very, very dire. i think the threat of hunger for a big chunk of- very, very dire. i think the threat of hunger for a big chunk of the i of hunger for a big chunk of the population— of hunger for a big chunk of the population is— of hunger for a big chunk of the population is really— of hunger for a big chunk of the population is really upon - of hunger for a big chunk of the population is really upon us. i of hunger for a big chunk of the i population is really upon us. lots of you _ population is really upon us. lots of you agencies _ population is really upon us. lots of you agencies have _ population is really upon us. lots of you agencies have been - population is really upon us. lots. of you agencies have been warning about— of you agencies have been warning about the — of you agencies have been warning about the shortage _ of you agencies have been warning about the shortage of _ of you agencies have been warning about the shortage of food, - of you agencies have been warning about the shortage of food, basici about the shortage of food, basic food staples _ about the shortage of food, basic food staples in _ about the shortage of food, basic food staples in afghanistan, - about the shortage of food, basic food staples in afghanistan, so . food staples in afghanistan, so there _ food staples in afghanistan, so there is— food staples in afghanistan, so there is the _ food staples in afghanistan, so there is the possibility - food staples in afghanistan, so there is the possibility of - there is the possibility of leverage. _ there is the possibility of leverage, but— there is the possibility of leverage, but the - there is the possibility of leverage, but the uk- there is the possibility of - leverage, but the uk government there is the possibility of _ leverage, but the uk government has promised _ leverage, but the uk government has promised to— leverage, but the uk government has promised to give _ leverage, but the uk government has promised to give afghanistan - leverage, but the uk government has promised to give afghanistan is, - leverage, but the uk government has promised to give afghanistan is, it. promised to give afghanistan is, it will only— promised to give afghanistan is, it will only cover _ promised to give afghanistan is, it will only cover a _ promised to give afghanistan is, it will only cover a fraction _ promised to give afghanistan is, it will only cover a fraction of - promised to give afghanistan is, it will only cover a fraction of afghanj will only cover a fraction of afghan needs _ will only cover a fraction of afghan needs so — will only cover a fraction of afghan needs so the _ will only cover a fraction of afghan needs. so the question _ will only cover a fraction of afghan needs. so the question of- will only cover a fraction of afghanl needs. so the question of leverage can be _ needs. so the question of leverage can be used. — needs. so the question of leverage can be used, then _ needs. so the question of leverage can be used, then we _ needs. so the question of leverage can be used, then we also - needs. so the question of leverage can be used, then we also have - needs. so the question of leveragej can be used, then we also have un agencies _ can be used, then we also have un agencies who — can be used, then we also have un agencies who will— can be used, then we also have un agencies who will not _ can be used, then we also have un agencies who will not be _ can be used, then we also have un. agencies who will not be leveraging, they will— agencies who will not be leveraging, they will essentially— agencies who will not be leveraging, they will essentially be _ agencies who will not be leveraging, they will essentially be meeting - they will essentially be meeting their responsibilities _ they will essentially be meeting their responsibilities as - they will essentially be meeting their responsibilities as a - their responsibilities as a agencies _ their responsibilities as a agencies. what- their responsibilities as a agencies. what the - their responsibilities as a i agencies. what the afghan their responsibilities as a _ agencies. what the afghan government the taliban— agencies. what the afghan government the taliban have _ agencies. what the afghan government the taliban have been _ agencies. what the afghan government the taliban have been getting - agencies. what the afghan government the taliban have been getting from - agencies. what the afghan government the taliban have been getting from a i the taliban have been getting from a

very cleverly — the taliban have been getting from a very cleverly these _ the taliban have been getting from a very cleverly these past _ the taliban have been getting from a very cleverly these past ten - the taliban have been getting from a very cleverly these past ten days, i very cleverly these past ten days, has been — very cleverly these past ten days, has been to — very cleverly these past ten days, has been to say— very cleverly these past ten days, has been to say that _ very cleverly these past ten days, has been to say that they- very cleverly these past ten days, has been to say that they don't i very cleverly these past ten days, i has been to say that they don't need the west _ has been to say that they don't need the west they— has been to say that they don't need the west. they don't _ has been to say that they don't need the west. they don't need _ has been to say that they don't need the west. they don't need them - has been to say that they don't need. the west. they don't need them west because _ the west. they don't need them west because they — the west. they don't need them west because they have _ the west. they don't need them west because they have china. _ the west. they don't need them west because they have china. in _ the west. they don't need them west because they have china. in china - the west. they don't need them west because they have china. in china is. because they have china. in china is essentially— because they have china. in china is essentially with _ because they have china. in china is essentially with open _ because they have china. in china is essentially with open arms, - because they have china. in china is| essentially with open arms, opening their checkbox_ essentially with open arms, opening their checkbox and _ essentially with open arms, opening their checkbox and offer— essentially with open arms, opening their checkbox and offer a _ essentially with open arms, opening their checkbox and offer a contract i their checkbox and offer a contract to do— their checkbox and offer a contract to do all— their checkbox and offer a contract to do all sorts _ their checkbox and offer a contract to do all sorts of _ their checkbox and offer a contract to do all sorts of things _ their checkbox and offer a contract to do all sorts of things from - to do all sorts of things from mineral— to do all sorts of things from mineral exploitation - to do all sorts of things from mineral exploitation and - to do all sorts of things from mineral exploitation and to i to do all sorts of things from - mineral exploitation and to keep their— mineral exploitation and to keep their tax— mineral exploitation and to keep their tax systems _ mineral exploitation and to keep their tax systems working - mineral exploitation and to keep their tax systems working and i mineral exploitation and to keep| their tax systems working and so mineral exploitation and to keep - their tax systems working and so on, and there _ their tax systems working and so on, and there is— their tax systems working and so on, and there is a— their tax systems working and so on, and there is a little _ their tax systems working and so on, and there is a little bit— their tax systems working and so on, and there is a little bit of— their tax systems working and so on, and there is a little bit of game - and there is a little bit of game playing. — and there is a little bit of game playing. but— and there is a little bit of game playing. but i— and there is a little bit of game playing, but i think— and there is a little bit of game playing, but i think in - and there is a little bit of game playing, but i think in the - and there is a little bit of game playing, but i think in the end, | and there is a little bit of game . playing, but i think in the end, the future _ playing, but i think in the end, the future of— playing, but i think in the end, the future of afghanistan _ playing, but i think in the end, the future of afghanistan will - playing, but i think in the end, the future of afghanistan will very- playing, but i think in the end, the. future of afghanistan will very much depend _ future of afghanistan will very much depend on _ future of afghanistan will very much depend on how— future of afghanistan will very much depend on how important— future of afghanistan will very much l depend on how important afghanistan will be _ depend on how important afghanistan will be in _ depend on how important afghanistan will be in world — depend on how important afghanistan will be in world politics, _ depend on how important afghanistan will be in world politics, and - depend on how important afghanistan will be in world politics, and i- will be in world politics, and i think— will be in world politics, and i think western _ will be in world politics, and i think western countries, - will be in world politics, and i think western countries, the i will be in world politics, and i- think western countries, the way that international— think western countries, the way that international politics - think western countries, the way that international politics were, i that international politics were, afghanistan _ that international politics were, afghanistan is _ that international politics were, afghanistan is not _ that international politics were, afghanistan is not extremely. afghanistan is not extremely important. _ afghanistan is not extremely important, and _ afghanistan is not extremely important, and this- afghanistan is not extremely important, and this is- afghanistan is not extremely- important, and this is essentially the drama — important, and this is essentially the drama of— important, and this is essentially the drama of afghanistan. - important, and this is essentially the drama of afghanistan.- important, and this is essentially the drama of afghanistan. thank you ve much the drama of afghanistan. thank you very much there. _ the drama of afghanistan. thank you very much there. we _ the drama of afghanistan. thank you very much there. we just _ the drama of afghanistan. thank you very much there. we just have - the drama of afghanistan. thank you very much there. we just have a - very much there. we just have a couple of minutes at the end, a chance for each of you to mark people's cards about the story you think they should be aware of,

either when we may have reported or perhaps could do with reporting maran. steve, you first. let perhaps could do with reporting maran. steve, you first.- maran. steve, you first. let big moment in _ maran. steve, you first. let big moment in british _ maran. steve, you first. let big moment in british politics, - maran. steve, you first. let big moment in british politics, of. moment in british politics, of interest, _ moment in british politics, of interest, i— moment in british politics, of interest, i think, moment in british politics, of interest, ithink, elsewhere moment in british politics, of interest, i think, elsewhere as welt _ interest, i think, elsewhere as well. after years and years of attempted projects in this area, it appears _ attempted projects in this area, it appears that the government is soon, perhaps— appears that the government is soon, perhaps even next week, to announce how it _ perhaps even next week, to announce how it plans _ perhaps even next week, to announce how it plans to finance social care in the _ how it plans to finance social care in the uk — how it plans to finance social care in the uk are certainly parts of the uk. in the uk are certainly parts of the lii

days. a mere 20 years afterl politicians start talking about days. a mere 20 years after - politicians start talking about it. eunice, your turn. filth. politicians start talking about it. eunice, your turn.— eunice, your turn. oh, well, the story that _ eunice, your turn. oh, well, the story that has — eunice, your turn. oh, well, the story that has really _ eunice, your turn. oh, well, the story that has really caught - eunice, your turn. oh, well, the story that has really caught myl eunice, your turn. oh, well, the i story that has really caught my eye has been _ story that has really caught my eye has been the — story that has really caught my eye has been the ongoing _ story that has really caught my eye has been the ongoing hurricane - story that has really caught my eyel has been the ongoing hurricane and all the _ has been the ongoing hurricane and all the damage _ has been the ongoing hurricane and all the damage that _ has been the ongoing hurricane and all the damage that it— has been the ongoing hurricane and all the damage that it has— has been the ongoing hurricane and all the damage that it has created i all the damage that it has created in the _ all the damage that it has created in the united _ all the damage that it has created in the united states. _ all the damage that it has created in the united states. yesterday, i in the united states. yesterday, there _ in the united states. yesterday, there were — in the united states. yesterday, there were floods _ in the united states. yesterday, there were floods in _ in the united states. yesterday, there were floods in new- in the united states. yesterday, there were floods in new york, i in the united states. yesterday, i there were floods in new york, and it was— there were floods in new york, and it was a _ there were floods in new york, and it was a really— there were floods in new york, and it was a really freak— there were floods in new york, and it was a really freak weather- it was a really freak weather events, _ it was a really freak weather events, because _ it was a really freak weather events, because after- it was a really freak weather events, because after a - it was a really freak weather events, because after a few| it was a really freak weather- events, because after a few hours of very. _ events, because after a few hours of very. very _ events, because after a few hours of very. very heavy _ events, because after a few hours of very. very heavy rain _ events, because after a few hours of very, very heavy rain to _ events, because after a few hours of very, very heavy rain to my - very, very heavy rain to my torrential _ very, very heavy rain to my torrential rain, _ very, very heavy rain to my torrential rain, there - very, very heavy rain to my torrential rain, there was. very, very heavy rain to my torrential rain, there was a| very, very heavy rain to my - torrential rain, there was a sign at the afternoon _ torrential rain, there was a sign at the afternoon in _ torrential rain, there was a sign at the afternoon in new— torrential rain, there was a sign at the afternoon in new york, - torrential rain, there was a sign at the afternoon in new york, but. torrential rain, there was a sign at. the afternoon in new york, but what happened _ the afternoon in new york, but what happened was — the afternoon in new york, but what happened was there _ the afternoon in new york, but what happened was there where - the afternoon in new york, but what happened was there where loss - the afternoon in new york, but what happened was there where loss of. happened was there where loss of life, happened was there where loss of life. and. — happened was there where loss of life. and. of— happened was there where loss of life, and, of course, _ happened was there where loss of life, and, of course, it _ happened was there where loss of life, and, of course, it is- happened was there where loss of life, and, of course, it is the - happened was there where loss ofj life, and, of course, it is the most vulnerable — life, and, of course, it is the most vulnerable population in— life, and, of course, it is the most vulnerable population in new- life, and, of course, it is the most vulnerable population in new york and of— vulnerable population in new york and of those — vulnerable population in new york and of those american _ vulnerable population in new york and of those american cities - vulnerable population in new york and of those american cities who. and of those american cities who often _ and of those american cities who often suffered. _ and of those american cities who often suffered. he _ and of those american cities who often suffered. he saw— and of those american cities who often suffered. he saw across i often suffered. he saw across europe, — often suffered. he saw across europe the _ often suffered. he saw across europe, the world _ often suffered. he saw across europe, the world this- often suffered. he saw across . europe, the world this summer, often suffered. he saw across - europe, the world this summer, freak weather— europe, the world this summer, freak weather events, — europe, the world this summer, freak weather events, so— europe, the world this summer, freak weather events, so flooding _ europe, the world this summer, freak weather events, so flooding that - europe, the world this summer, freak weather events, so flooding that wasl weather events, so flooding that was 'ust weather events, so flooding that was just with _ weather events, so flooding that was just with a _ weather events, so flooding that was just with a lot — weather events, so flooding that was just with a lot of— weather events, so flooding that was just with a lot of very hot _ weather events, so flooding that was just with a lot of very hot weather. i just with a lot of very hot weather. and this _ just with a lot of very hot weather. and this is, — just with a lot of very hot weather. and this is, i— just with a lot of very hot weather. and this is, ithink— just with a lot of very hot weather. and this is, i think some _ just with a lot of very hot weather. and this is, i think some of the - and this is, i think some of the earth _ and this is, i think some of the earth telling _ and this is, i think some of the earth telling us _ and this is, i think some of the earth telling us that _ and this is, i think some of the earth telling us that we - and this is, i think some of the earth telling us that we really. and this is, i think some of the - earth telling us that we really need to take _ earth telling us that we really need to take the — earth telling us that we really need

to take the climate _ earth telling us that we really need to take the climate emergency - to take the climate emergency seriously— to take the climate emergency seriously because _ to take the climate emergency seriously because otherwise i to take the climate emergency seriously because otherwise it| to take the climate emergency i seriously because otherwise it is, again. _ seriously because otherwise it is, again. the — seriously because otherwise it is, again. the most— seriously because otherwise it is, again, the most vulnerable, - seriously because otherwise it is, again, the most vulnerable, andl seriously because otherwise it is, l again, the most vulnerable, and all of us. _ again, the most vulnerable, and all of us. who— again, the most vulnerable, and all of us, who continue _ again, the most vulnerable, and all of us, who continue to _ again, the most vulnerable, and all of us, who continue to pay - again, the most vulnerable, and all of us, who continue to pay for - again, the most vulnerable, and all of us, who continue to pay for thisl of us, who continue to pay for this for the _ of us, who continue to pay for this for the neglect _ of us, who continue to pay for this for the neglect of _ of us, who continue to pay for this for the neglect of the _ of us, who continue to pay for thisl for the neglect of the environment. indeed. _ for the neglect of the environment. indeed. about _ for the neglect of the environment. indeed, about 45— for the neglect of the environment. indeed, about 45 seconds - for the neglect of the environment. indeed, about 45 seconds or - for the neglect of the environment. indeed, about 45 seconds or so - for the neglect of the environment. j indeed, about 45 seconds or so left here. i indeed, about 45 seconds or so left here. . ,, , ., here. i agree with steve, the social care issue certainly _ here. i agree with steve, the social care issue certainly in _ here. i agree with steve, the social care issue certainly in england - here. i agree with steve, the social care issue certainly in england is . care issue certainly in england is hugely important. how is it going to be paid for? nhs is one thing, social care is means tested and has to be paid for. how that pans out, crucial. on a lighter note, the relaunch of abba. the new brand, getting together again, the famous paul after all these years, i got a huge amount of coverage and the news, but how it actually comes together in practice i thought of this digital chicory to make them look a lot younger. i will be watching out for that step i do think all of us who work in broadcasting as well will be watching to see whether or not the advertisement of the younger versions of their selves still singing the same and looking like they did 40 years ago works out. we all live in hope for that. dateline london back at the same time next

week. from all of us, goodbye. hello. after bring stuck in a rut for quite some time, the weather will begin to change this weekend. let's take a look at the big picture — it's all to do with this area of high pressure which is slowly moving away eastwards. as that happens, we begin to draw in something warmer and brighter, gradually by sunday, into england and wales — whereas at the same time in scotland northern ireland, there's a chance of seeing some rain to end the weekend. but until then, it's as you were — that means a good deal of cloud around, as there will be getting into tonight. some clear spells in parts of wales and southwest england, could be 1—2 mist and fog patches. elsewhere, a lot of this cloud is low, meaning it's foggy on the hills, and there's some patches of light

rain and drizzle here and there, as well, with most places keeping temperatures just into double figures. so it'll be a rather grey start to saturday and, for many, it'll stay that way. there will be a few sunny spells coming through that cloud, perhaps into northern scotland, northern ireland, more especially towards wales and southern counties of england, especially into the southwest. the flow of air still coming in towards the north sea coast will keep temperatures a little lower here than elsewhere, particularly coastal parts of eastern scotland and northeast england into the mid—teens — whereas elsewhere, if you get to see some sunshine, you're just into the low 20s. the thickest cloud, again, during saturday, brings a chance of seeing some drizzly light rain in places. staying largely fine, then, into saturday evening — then on sunday, for part two of the weekend, the gradual change is under way way. brightening up more readily in england and wales, though there will still be some parts of eastern england that stayed quite cloudy. it'll turn a bit warmer here whereas for scotland and northern ireland, increasing cloud towards the north and west in particular,

seeing we see a weather front approaching with some outbreaks of rain. some uncertainty about the timing of the arrival of any rain and, indeed, the progress southwards of that overnight into monday. it may well be by monday this system with patchy rain installed across parts of northern ireland, northern england, and scotland. to the north of that in northern scotland, some sunshine. to the south of that, across much of england and wales, increasingly warm, sunny spells as we go into sunday and monday, with temperatures lifting up in some spots into the upper 20s. beyond that, all parts will see some very warm weather for a time and some sunshine before things turn cooler and rather more unsettled again later in the week. that's your weather.

this is bbc news. i'm shaun ley. the headlines at 8pm — no mass roll—out of covid jabs for healthy 12—to—15—year—olds for now. it will be up to chief medical officers to examine the wider issues involved. the risks and benefits are finely balanced, but the other wider considerations, such as educational benefits, need to be taken into consideration. calls for more money for the nhs to deal with backlog of operations and the increasing demand for social care. fear and desperation — british soldiers tell us about the chaos they witnessed during the kabul evacuations: you can't see a young child, a baby, a woman crushed to death in front of you and you having to deal with the aftermath of that.

you can't see any of that without being emotional.