military operations in afghanistan inadvertently killed ten members of an innocent family. the head of us central command said an investigation had found a drone strike killed an aid worker and nine members of his family, seven of them children. the former president of algeria, abdelaziz bouteflika, has died after a long illness. he was 8a. abdelaziz bouteflika led the north african country for nearly two decades, but the ailing president's decision in 2019 to seek a fifth term in office led to massive street protests. france is recalling its ambassadors from australia and the united states in what it describes as an exceptional decision. an announcement was made on wednesday that australia would scrap a multi—billion dollar deal to buy french—designed submarines. now on bbc news, the media show.

hello, welcome to the media show. now, this week, we become aware of power battles within the taliban as we watch keenly to see what kind of government it wants to create. also this week, we're seeing increasing evidence the world's media is tuning out of afghanistan. well, we're not doing that on the media show — we're going to tune into how western media and afghan media have covered this story. i want to understand the relationship between the taliban and journalists. i also want to understand whether this has revealed structural problems in how news works. has there been enough space given to context and history as many of us watching this week playing out have been asking, why is this happening? well, we've a number of guests to help us, including cnn's chief international correspondent, clarissa ward, who, with this clip, became one

of the faces of the story as the taliban took over. we decide to leave and head for our car. the fighter takes the safety off his ak—lfl and pushes through the crowd. stay behind him, stay behind him! you can see that some of the taliban fighters arejust... hopped up on adrenaline. i don't know why. it's a very dicey situation. suddenly, two other taliban charge towards us. you can see their rifle butt raised to strike producer brent swales. when the fighters are told we have permission to report, they lower their weapons and let us pass. clarissa ward from cnn, thanks forjoining us on the media show. thanks so much for having me on. now, this is an extraordinary report, an extraordinary moment. many of our listeners will know it very well. just tell us about how you came to be in that position, close to kabul airport.

well, we wanted to get a sense of what it was a sense of what it was like for afghans who were desperately trying to get into the airport. and so, we arrived outside, there were large crowds and we started trying to push closer to get a better idea of what it looked like. the taliban fighters there were carrying whips and truncheons. they were very, very aggressive, as i think you can see from that clip, which had not been my experience with other taliban fighters in other parts of the city. and they were not particularly receptive to our desire to talk to them and our desire to talk to other people around the airport. one thing that you can't see in that clip is that we were immediately swarmed by afghans desperate to show us their papers — "look, i worked at this us military base. "look, i was a translator for the us embassy, "here's my paperwork. "help me get out, help me get into the airport" — which is always a really tough position to be in as a journalist.

clarissa, you've covered many, many stories on the trial and execution of saddam hussein in iraq, the conflict in syria to the situation now in afghanistan. i wonder, given all of those experiences, if you anticipated the degree to which that particular report would reverberate around the world. no, i don't think i possibly could have predicted how are could have predicted how our reporting during that week that the taliban took over would resonate with people. and it's always difficult when you're in the field to have a real sense of how your reporting is being received elsewhere because you're working 19 hours a day. any bandwidth you have left is being used to think about things like what will i eat, how are we going to put this piece together, etc. so, i only really had a sense when i looked at my instagram account some weeks later and realised that i had 200,000 new followers. and you're talking to us from london now, so i wonder if you think you could

do the kind of reporting you did a few weeks ago now. no, there's no substitute for being on the ground. i mean, you have to be there, you have to smell things in the air, you have to talk to people on the streets, you have to see it for yourself to really get that visceral feel of what a conflict feels like and what people are going through. so, i don't think there's any substitute for being there on the ground. well, we're delighted you're with us on the media show. let's bring in sana safi, a presenter with bbc pashto. sana, you've got a new documentary called afghanistan and me on the bbc world service this weekend. for people who haven't listened to you before, just explain where you grew up and how you came to move to the uk. thank you, ros. so, i was born in afghanistan in kabul in 1989, and then i was 18 months old when my parents moved to the southern city of kandahar. it was the time of the

mujahedin, the western—backed freedom fighters, as they were called back then, who were fighting against the soviet regime. my parents were threatened when they had to take refuge with my aunt in the province of helmand, which is also in the south of the country. i was seven when the taliban took over afghanistan, and it was then that i wasn't allowed to go to school, so i had to go to three different underground schools in the five years that the taliban were in charge. then 9/11 happened. after 9/11, the international involvement happen. i went to my first — involvement happen. i went to my first official school in 2002, _ my first official school in 2002, and i got a job with a local— 2002, and i got a job with a local tv _ 2002, and i got a job with a local tv station in 2006. in 2007, _ local tv station in 2006. in 2007, i_ local tv station in 2006. in 2007, ijoined the bbc and came to the _ 2007, ijoined the bbc and came to the uk — 2007, ijoined the bbc and came to the uk. i was 18. 2007, ijoined the bbc and came to the uk. l was 18.— to the uk. i was 18. you're faced here _ to the uk. i was 18. you're faced here with _ to the uk. i was 18. you're faced here with the - to the uk. i was 18. you're faced here with the bbc. faced here with the bbc team that also has an operation in

afghanistan. how do you go about covering what's happening in your country from afar? in the last 20 years, it has been very— the last 20 years, it has been very difficult to cover afghanistan because we've had instances of staff who were having _ instances of staff who were having to relocate to different parts — having to relocate to different parts of — having to relocate to different parts of the country in order to tell— parts of the country in order to tell the stories, the quality— to tell the stories, the qualityjournalism that our audiences demand. but also to keep— audiences demand. but also to keep them safe. i remember differeht_ keep them safe. i remember different cases in the last 20 years— different cases in the last 20 years that we had. some colleagues that didn't want to use their— colleagues that didn't want to use their own names. we gave them _ use their own names. we gave them that— use their own names. we gave them that option if they didn't want — them that option if they didn't want their names used. they could — want their names used. they could use _ want their names used. they could use a different name or they— could use a different name or they could not use a name. in some — they could not use a name. in some extreme cases, we had to evoke — some extreme cases, we had to evoke a — some extreme cases, we had to re—voice a report in order to

protect— re—voice a report in order to protect their identity. so, we had to— protect their identity. so, we had to make constant on the day decisions, — had to make constant on the day decisions, so to speak. this situation _ decisions, so to speak. this situation is still so fluid. as ou situation is still so fluid. as you both — situation is still so fluid. is you both know, in order to report in afghanistan now, you have to deal with the taliban. to understand how that works, i got in touch with a man called saad mohseni. he's the ceo of mobi group, which owns tol0news. to understand asking a client, you have to look at tol0news. it began in 2003. it's grown into a formidable operation. it has millions of litres of left centres across afg ha n ista n litres of left centres across afghanistan and an influential voice —— millions of listeners. i want to understand how saad mohseni manages that relationship. it

mohseni manages that relationship.— mohseni manages that relationship. it has always been professional. - relationship. it has always been professional. we - relationship. it has always| been professional. we had relationship. it has always . been professional. we had an incident — been professional. we had an incident where _ been professional. we had an incident where they— been professional. we had an incident where they attacked i incident where they attacked one of— incident where they attacked one of our— incident where they attacked one of our buses _ incident where they attacked one of our buses in - incident where they attacked one of our buses in 2016, . one of our buses in 2016, resulting _ one of our buses in 2016, resulting in _ one of our buses in 2016, resulting in the _ one of our buses in 2016, resulting in the killing - one of our buses in 2016, resulting in the killing ofl resulting in the killing of seven— resulting in the killing of seven of— resulting in the killing of seven of our— resulting in the killing ofj seven of our employees. resulting in the killing of- seven of our employees. the network _ seven of our employees. the network took _ seven of our employees. the network took responsibility l seven of our employees. the. network took responsibility for them — network took responsibility for them the _ network took responsibility for them. the relationship- network took responsibility for them. the relationship has. network took responsibility for l them. the relationship has been fairly— them. the relationship has been fairly professional— them. the relationship has been fairly professional other- them. the relationship has been fairly professional other than - fairly professional other than that — fairly professional other than that they're _ fairly professional other than that. they're always - fairly professional other thani that. they're always available ontine — that. they're always available ontine in _ that. they're always available online. in areas _ that. they're always available online. in areas they - that. they're always available online. in areas they control, | online. in areas they control, they— online. in areas they control, they provide _ online. in areas they control, they provide us _ online. in areas they control, they provide us with - online. in areas they control, they provide us with safe - they provide us with safe passage _ they provide us with safe passage we _ they provide us with safe passage. we were - they provide us with safe passage. we were in- they provide us with safej passage. we were in bed they provide us with safe - passage. we were in bed with the taliban— passage. we were in bed with the taliban unit _ passage. we were in bed with the taliban unit when - passage. we were in bed with the taliban unit when they. passage. we were in bed with. the taliban unit when they took on isis~ — the taliban unit when they took on isis. which _ the taliban unit when they took on isis. which was _ the taliban unit when they took on isis. which was an _ on isis. which was an extraordinary- on isis. which was an - extraordinary documentary we prepared _ extraordinary documentary we prepared i_ extraordinary documentary we prepared. i think— extraordinary documentary we prepared. i think they've - prepared. i think they've always— prepared. i think they've always been— prepared. i think they've always been media - prepared. i think they've| always been media savvy prepared. i think they've - always been media savvy than the former— always been media savvy than the former president. - always been media savvy than the former president. the - the former president. the taliban— the former president. the taliban were _ the former president. the| taliban were professional. the former president. the - taliban were professional. so we had — taliban were professional. so we had a _ taliban were professional. so we had a better— taliban were professional. so we had a better relationship. we had a better relationship towards _ we had a better relationship towards the _ we had a better relationship towards the taliban - we had a better relationship towards the taliban than - we had a better relationship| towards the taliban than the

previous— towards the taliban than the previous team. _ towards the taliban than the previous team.— previous team. the haqqani network had _ previous team. the haqqani network had killed - previous team. the haqqani network had killed some - previous team. the haqqani network had killed some of| previous team. the haqqani - network had killed some of your staff? , . , , network had killed some of your staff? , , �*, network had killed some of your staff? , , staff? yes, absolutely. it's a different— staff? yes, absolutely. it's a different neighbourhood. - staff? yes, absolutely. it's aj different neighbourhood. we have — different neighbourhood. we have different _ different neighbourhood. we have different benchmarks . different neighbourhood. we l have different benchmarks and standards _ have different benchmarks and standards in _ have different benchmarks and standards in terms _ have different benchmarks and standards in terms of- have different benchmarks and standards in terms of dealing i standards in terms of dealing with— standards in terms of dealing with people _ standards in terms of dealing with people. but— standards in terms of dealing with people. but for- standards in terms of dealing with people. but for us, - standards in terms of dealing with people. but for us, we l with people. but for us, we were — with people. but for us, we were always _ with people. but for us, we were always committed - were always committed editorially _ were always committed editorially to _ were always committed editorially to a - were always committed editorially to a piece . were always committed i editorially to a piece that were always committed - editorially to a piece that we felt every— editorially to a piece that we felt every conflict _ editorially to a piece that we felt every conflict has - editorially to a piece that we felt every conflict has ended| editorially to a piece that we i felt every conflict has ended a negotiation _ felt every conflict has ended a negotiation. if— felt every conflict has ended a negotiation. if you _ felt every conflict has ended a negotiation. if you look- felt every conflict has ended a negotiation. if you look at - negotiation. if you look at afghanistan's _ negotiation. if you look at afghanistan's recent- negotiation. if you look at i afghanistan's recent history, we had — afghanistan's recent history, we had 40 _ afghanistan's recent history, we had 40 odd _ afghanistan's recent history, we had 40 odd years - afghanistan's recent history, we had 40 odd years of - we had 40 odd years of fighting _ we had 40 odd years of fighting-— we had 40 odd years of fiuuhtin. , ., �*, fighting. given the taliban's know-how. _ fighting. given the taliban's know-how, is _ fighting. given the taliban's know-how, is there - fighting. given the taliban's know-how, is there a - fighting. given the taliban's know-how, is there a risk . fighting. given the taliban's. know-how, is there a risk it's know—how, is there a risk it's using you? know-how, is there a risk it's using you?— using you? absolutely. just like ou using you? absolutely. just like you would _ using you? absolutely. just like you would be _ using you? absolutely. just like you would be using - using you? absolutely. just like you would be using us| using you? absolutely. just i like you would be using us as wet — like you would be using us as wet as— like you would be using us as wet as a _ like you would be using us as well. as a sort _ like you would be using us as well. as a sort of— like you would be using us as well. as a sort of a _ like you would be using us as. well. as a sort of a benchmark in terms — well. as a sort of a benchmark in terms of— well. as a sort of a benchmark in terms of how— well. as a sort of a benchmark in terms of how the _ well. as a sort of a benchmark in terms of how the taliban i well. as a sort of a benchmarkl in terms of how the taliban are irehaving _ in terms of how the taliban are irehaving we _ in terms of how the taliban are behaving. we are _ in terms of how the taliban are behaving. we are a _ in terms of how the taliban are behaving. we are a bit- in terms of how the taliban are behaving. we are a bit like - in terms of how the taliban are behaving. we are a bit like the| behaving. we are a bit like the canary— behaving. we are a bit like the canary in— behaving. we are a bit like the canary in the _ behaving. we are a bit like the canary in the coal— behaving. we are a bit like the canary in the coal mine, - behaving. we are a bit like the canary in the coal mine, and l behaving. we are a bit like the canary in the coal mine, and ii canary in the coal mine, and i thinka— canary in the coal mine, and i thinka tot— canary in the coal mine, and i thinka lot of— canary in the coal mine, and i think a lot of western - think a lot of western audiences— think a lot of western audiences are - think a lot of western audiences are looking think a lot of western . audiences are looking at think a lot of western - audiences are looking at us in

terms — audiences are looking at us in terms of— audiences are looking at us in terms of how— audiences are looking at us in terms of how we _ audiences are looking at us in terms of how we survive, - audiences are looking at us in terms of how we survive, andj terms of how we survive, and that _ terms of how we survive, and that would _ terms of how we survive, and that would be _ terms of how we survive, and that would be a _ terms of how we survive, and that would be a clear - that would be a clear indication— that would be a clear indication as - that would be a clear indication as to - that would be a clear indication as to howl that would be a clear - indication as to how others would _ indication as to how others would survive. _ indication as to how others would survive.— indication as to how others would survive. �* , ., would survive. but when you run those stories _ would survive. but when you run those stories which _ would survive. but when you run those stories which could - would survive. but when you run those stories which could be - those stories which could be seen as being negative to the taliban, are they on the phone saying to drop this? hat taliban, are they on the phone saying to drop this?— saying to drop this? not yet. i think they _ saying to drop this? not yet. i think they still _ saying to drop this? not yet. i think they still don't _ saying to drop this? not yet. i think they still don't have - saying to drop this? not yet. i think they still don't have the | think they still don't have the irandwidth_ think they still don't have the bandwidth to _ think they still don't have the bandwidth to deal— think they still don't have the bandwidth to deal with - bandwidth to deal with everything. _ bandwidth to deal with everything, every- bandwidth to deal with. everything, every single bandwidth to deal with - everything, every single day. i think— everything, every single day. i think right _ everything, every single day. i think right now, _ everything, every single day. i think right now, they- everything, every single day. i think right now, they are - think right now, they are scrambling _ think right now, they are scrambling to _ think right now, they are scrambling to deal- think right now, they are scrambling to deal with i think right now, they are . scrambling to deal with the airport. _ scrambling to deal with the airport. the _ scrambling to deal with the airport, the security, - scrambling to deal with the airport, the security, with. airport, the security, with food, _ airport, the security, with food, with— airport, the security, with food, with this _ airport, the security, with food, with this new- airport, the security, with. food, with this new cabinet appointment _ food, with this new cabinet appointment. but - food, with this new cabinet appointment. but with - food, with this new cabinet i appointment. but with time, they“— appointment. but with time, they'll become _ appointment. but with time, they'll become a _ appointment. but with time, they'll become a lot - appointment. but with time, they'll become a lot more i they'll become a lot more savvy. _ they'll become a lot more savvy. they'tt _ they'll become a lot more savvy, they'll have - they'll become a lot more savvy, they'll have teams| they'll become a lot more - savvy, they'll have teams and they— savvy, they'll have teams and they witt— savvy, they'll have teams and they will be _ savvy, they'll have teams and they will be calling _ savvy, they'll have teams and they will be calling the - savvy, they'll have teams and| they will be calling the media. this is— they will be calling the media. this is a — they will be calling the media. this is a real— they will be calling the media. this is a real challenge - they will be calling the media. this is a real challenge for- this is a real challenge for us, — this is a real challenge for us, how— this is a real challenge for us, how much _ this is a real challenge for us, how much capacity - this is a real challenge for| us, how much capacity will this is a real challenge for- us, how much capacity will they have _ us, how much capacity will they have for criticism? _ us, how much capacity will they have for criticism?— have for criticism? saad mohseni. _ have for criticism? saad mohseni, the _ have for criticism? saad mohseni, the ceo - have for criticism? saad mohseni, the ceo of. have for criticism? saad| mohseni, the ceo of the have for criticism? saad - mohseni, the ceo of the company that owns tol0news. he has a striking turn of phrase. he describes afghanistan as a

different neighbourhood. you will both have what have working relationships with the taliban. clearly so, help me understand how you engage with them. ~ �* , understand how you engage with them. . �* , ., them. we've been engaging with them. we've been engaging with them for a _ them. we've been engaging with them for a couple _ them. we've been engaging with them for a couple of _ them. we've been engaging with them for a couple of years - them. we've been engaging with them for a couple of years now. | them for a couple of years now. i did a story in the north of the country injanuary of 2019, which entailed spending time in their territory, getting permission from them, and one thing i will give them credit for, which i think saad touches on there, is there was a process. you did have the from the taliban and you could be reasonably secure knowing that you weren't at risk of being kidnapped on a trip and you would be given access to what you had been promised. so, there was a mechanism for dealing with them, and from what we're seeing on the ground now, that mechanism still exists. there is a department that you go to, there's

paperwork that's signed off on. the problem becomes now particularly that you're dealing with... not necessarily the same as of the dealing of the same as of the dealing of the upper echelons of the taliban. it can be difficult to persuade them that you do have a legitimate right to be there and do yourjob as a reporter. sana, does this echo your experience? i sana, does this echo your experience?— sana, does this echo your exerience? . ., experience? i agree with what saad and clarissa _ experience? i agree with what saad and clarissa said, - experience? i agree with what saad and clarissa said, they . saad and clarissa said, they are more _ saad and clarissa said, they are more professional, but i would — are more professional, but i would say— are more professional, but i would say they have a double standard. for international media, _ standard. for international media, for people like clarissa with— media, for people like clarissa with a — media, for people like clarissa with a huge platform, there is a much — with a huge platform, there is a much more polished interaction that for local staff _ interaction that for local staff like the people who don't

have _ staff like the people who don't have international platforms behind — have international platforms behind them, they do have some help. _ behind them, they do have some help. but— behind them, they do have some help, but the treating has been horrendous. we saw four of their— horrendous. we saw four of theirjournalists were badly beaten. _ theirjournalists were badly beaten, and the same with news and owned — beaten, and the same with news and owned by an afghan businessman. some of their journalists were treated in some _ journalists were treated in some of— journalists were treated in some of the most inhumane ways. ithink— some of the most inhumane ways. i think the — some of the most inhumane ways. i think the taliban are clever in knowing that we need to polish— in knowing that we need to polish our message to the international media and give them — international media and give them what they want, but crackdown on people who have no other— crackdown on people who have no other way— crackdown on people who have no other way of protecting themselves and escaping. as such, is themselves and escaping. is such, is there a risk that foreign journalists such as yourself are being played by the taliban?— the taliban? books, there's always" — the taliban? books, there's always... it's _ the taliban? books, there's always... it's not _ the taliban? books, there's always... it's not so - the taliban? books, there's always... it's not so much i always... it's not so much there is a risk of being played, you have to go into it with your eyes open and know the way i'm treated is not the

way another journalist, particularly a local journalist, might be treated. when you look at the professionalism more savvy of the taliban, you have to understand it in its proper context, and it is largely transactional. they hope to get something out of that. the money or from what we see is pretty thin. people to carry out theirjobs as pretty thin. people to carry out their jobs as journalists. on the other hand, they are firing at protesters, they're beating journalist, so just because you talk the talk, if you don't walk the walk, we will cover that.— will cover that. help me understand _ will cover that. help me understand your - will cover that. help me - understand your calculations on these issues. you are part of these issues. you are part of the first international team in myanmar in february after the military coup there. that would've only been possible with the military�*s acquiescence. what are your calculations when deciding to work with some degree with people like the military in myanmar or the taliban? mr;

myanmar or the taliban? my calculation — myanmar or the taliban? my calculation is _ myanmar or the taliban? iii calculation is that myanmar or the taliban? m calculation is that we myanmar or the taliban? mg calculation is that we are put in this position all the time, whether it's in this position all the time, whether its north korea, syria or you're given access to a country by a repressive regime. yourjob when you accept that access is to make sure that you tell the stories to the absolute best of your ability and you go even further in ensuring you hold people's feet to the fire because that privilege that sana talked about can occasionally be used for good as well because in myanmar, for example, where local journalists were myanmar, for example, where localjournalists were doing extraordinary work, from a security point of view, it wasn't possible for them to look a top general in the eye and confront him with evidence of children being killed by his own forces. that's a privilege that i enjoy as a foreigner because i'm allowed to leave the country at the end of it and i don't run the risk of being spent in prison. i would

still say that based on our experience in the airport, it's much more of a fluent situation. even as a foreigner, if you get the wrong person on the wrong day, that situation can very quickly become very dangerous. can very quickly become very dangerous— can very quickly become very dancerous. ., �* ., ., dangerous. you're dealing how the cnn deals _ dangerous. you're dealing how the cnn deals with _ dangerous. you're dealing how the cnn deals with the - dangerous. you're dealing how| the cnn deals with the taliban. you're helping us... let's hear from another person who deals with them, secunder kermani. he's currently in the city of northern afghanistan. i told him we discuss these issues, and he kindly recorded this. there is definitely a sense of privilege _ there is definitely a sense of privilege that _ there is definitely a sense of privilege that comes - there is definitely a sense of privilege that comes from i there is definitely a sense of. privilege that comes from being an international— privilege that comes from being an internationaljournalists. - an internationaljournalists. we've — an internationaljournalists. we've seen— an internationaljournalists. we've seen at— an internationaljournalists. we've seen at times - an internationaljournalists. we've seen at times some. an internationaljournalists. i we've seen at times some of an internationaljournalists. - we've seen at times some of our afghan— we've seen at times some of our afghan colleagues— we've seen at times some of our afghan colleagues being - we've seen at times some of our afghan colleagues being badly. afghan colleagues being badly beaten. — afghan colleagues being badly beaten, tortured _ afghan colleagues being badly beaten, tortured even, - afghan colleagues being badly beaten, tortured even, by- afghan colleagues being badly beaten, tortured even, by the| beaten, tortured even, by the taliban — beaten, tortured even, by the taliban it _ beaten, tortured even, by the taliban. it hasn't _ beaten, tortured even, by the taliban. it hasn't happened i taliban. it hasn't happened with— taliban. it hasn't happened with the _ taliban. it hasn't happened with the foreign _ taliban. it hasn't happened with the foreign media, - taliban. it hasn't happened

with the foreign media, ati with the foreign media, at least _ with the foreign media, at least lot— with the foreign media, at least lot yet. _ with the foreign media, at least lot yet. i _ with the foreign media, at least lot yet. i think- with the foreign media, at least lot yet. i think the l least lot yet. i think the taliban— least lot yet. i think the taliban know— least lot yet. i think the taliban know there - least lot yet. i think the taliban know there willl least lot yet. i think the . taliban know there will be least lot yet. i think the - taliban know there will be more pr consequences. _ taliban know there will be more pr consequences. it's _ taliban know there will be more pr consequences. it's not - taliban know there will be more pr consequences. it's not to - pr consequences. it's not to say there — pr consequences. it's not to say there are _ pr consequences. it's not to say there are no _ pr consequences. it's not to say there are no challengesl say there are no challenges they've _ say there are no challenges they've tried _ say there are no challenges they've tried to _ say there are no challenges they've tried to prevent - say there are no challenges they've tried to prevent usl they've tried to prevent us filming _ they've tried to prevent us filming at— they've tried to prevent us filming at demonstrations| they've tried to prevent us . filming at demonstrations or they've tried to prevent us - filming at demonstrations or at the airport _ filming at demonstrations or at the airport. overall, _ filming at demonstrations or at the airport. overall, their- the airport. overall, their attitude _ the airport. overall, their attitude has _ the airport. overall, their attitude has been - the airport. overall, their attitude has been very. attitude has been very cooperative _ attitude has been very cooperative and - attitude has been very cooperative and really| attitude has been very- cooperative and really very friendly _ cooperative and really very friendly i— cooperative and really very friendly. i think— cooperative and really very friendly. i think that's - cooperative and really veryl friendly. i think that's partly because _ friendly. i think that's partly because on— friendly. i think that's partly because on an _ friendly. i think that's partly because on an individual- friendly. i think that's partly. because on an individual level, we are — because on an individual level, we are still— because on an individual level, we are still thought _ because on an individual level, we are still thought of - we are still thought of something _ we are still thought of something of- we are still thought of something of a - we are still thought of. something of a normalcy. we are still thought of - something of a normalcy. they want _ something of a normalcy. they want to— something of a normalcy. they want to portray _ something of a normalcy. they want to portray a _ something of a normalcy. they want to portray a particular- want to portray a particular image _ want to portray a particular image to _ want to portray a particular image to the _ want to portray a particular image to the rest - want to portray a particular image to the rest of - want to portray a particular image to the rest of the . want to portray a particular- image to the rest of the world. that— image to the rest of the world. that itself— image to the rest of the world. that itself presents _ image to the rest of the world. that itself presents its - image to the rest of the world. that itself presents its own - that itself presents its own challenges _ that itself presents its own challenges because - that itself presents its own challenges because there'sj that itself presents its own i challenges because there's a lot of— challenges because there's a lot of misinformation - challenges because there's a i lot of misinformation around, and both— lot of misinformation around, and both the _ lot of misinformation around, and both the taliban - lot of misinformation around, and both the taliban and - lot of misinformation around, | and both the taliban and their critics— and both the taliban and their critics have _ and both the taliban and their critics have a _ and both the taliban and their critics have a narrative - and both the taliban and their critics have a narrative they. critics have a narrative they want — critics have a narrative they want to _ critics have a narrative they want to push _ critics have a narrative they want to push forward. - critics have a narrative they want to push forward. the i critics have a narrative they- want to push forward. the truth isn't _ want to push forward. the truth isn't always _ want to push forward. the truth isn't always easy. _ want to push forward. the truth isn't always easy. one - want to push forward. the truth isn't always easy. one of - want to push forward. the truth isn't always easy. one of the i isn't always easy. one of the key things— isn't always easy. one of the key things i— isn't always easy. one of the key things i bear— isn't always easy. one of the key things i bear in- isn't always easy. one of the key things i bear in mind - isn't always easy. one of the key things i bear in mind in i isn't always easy. one of the l key things i bear in mind in my reporting— key things i bear in mind in my reporting is _ key things i bear in mind in my reporting is an— key things i bear in mind in my

reporting is an important... . reporting is an important... whilst — reporting is an important... whilst we _ reporting is an important... whilst we can _ reporting is an important... whilst we can and - reporting is an important... whilst we can and should i reporting is an important... l whilst we can and should talk about— whilst we can and should talk about the _ whilst we can and should talk about the gains _ whilst we can and should talk about the gains being - whilst we can and should talk about the gains being made i whilst we can and should talk . about the gains being made over the past — about the gains being made over the past 20 _ about the gains being made over the past 20 years _ about the gains being made over the past 20 years — _ about the gains being made over the past 20 years — women's - the past 20 years — women's rights _ the past 20 years — women's rights for— the past 20 years — women's rights for example _ the past 20 years — women's rights for example — - the past 20 years — women's rights for example — it's - the past 20 years — women's rights for example — it's alsoj rights for example — it's also important _ rights for example — it's also important to _ rights for example — it's also important to remember- rights for example — it's also important to remember the| important to remember the crises — important to remember the crises of _ important to remember the crises of-— crises of. circa undercover money- — crises of. circa undercover money- if _ crises of. circa undercover money- if we _ crises of. circa undercover money. if we could - crises of. circa undercover money. if we could pick. crises of. circa undercover| money. if we could pick up crises of. circa undercover. money. if we could pick up on his final point there, do you think there's a risk that the western media and afghan media and accurately portray afghanistan by focusing too much on the capital? it’s much on the capital? it's absolutely _ much on the capital? it's absolutely a _ much on the capital? it's absolutely a risk, - much on the capital? it's absolutely a risk, and we have seen _ absolutely a risk, and we have seen in — absolutely a risk, and we have seen in the last years as well as days — seen in the last years as well as days since the taliban have taken — as days since the taliban have taken over— as days since the taliban have taken over the capital. the focus — taken over the capital. the focus has _ taken over the capital. the focus has been on the airport, and _ focus has been on the airport, and then— focus has been on the airport, and then it _ focus has been on the airport, and then it went to the rest of kabul — and then it went to the rest of kabul. actually, at that time, some attributions did take place _ some attributions did take

place i_ some attributions did take place. i am getting horrific videos of men being shot on the spot— videos of men being shot on the spot -- — videos of men being shot on the spot —— some executions. none of that— spot —— some executions. none of that has— spot —— some executions. none of that has been reported from the international media. i don't _ the international media. i don't know why. maybe they exclude _ don't know why. maybe they exclude it because they talked about — exclude it because they talked about the privilege and the responsibilities. some international media have the privilege to hold power to account. they could've used this— account. they could've used this time _ account. they could've used this time and reported on the horrible — this time and reported on the horrible crimes happening in the west— horrible crimes happening in the west of the country, and i can mention kandahar and others _ can mention kandahar and others. the videos are so horrific _ others. the videos are so horrific i— others. the videos are so horrific. i watched one and couldn't _ horrific. i watched one and couldn't sleep. they are presented very inaccurately about — presented very inaccurately about the history of the war, who— about the history of the war, who is— about the history of the war, who is involved, who is now in charge — who is involved, who is now in charge and _ who is involved, who is now in charge and everything else. one challenae charge and everything else. one challenge is _ charge and everything else. one challenge is to _ charge and everything else. ole: challenge is to make sure charge and everything else. (m9: challenge is to make sure the coverage is accurate, comprehensive to the whole

country. the other is to make sure the coverage is being carried. on that subject, let's bring in another person. alex sheppard is with new york public magazine. alex, is it reasonable to say that us media is already starting to move away from this story? certainly correct. away from this story? certainly correct- l _ away from this story? certainly correct. i think _ away from this story? certainly correct. i think there's - away from this story? certainly correct. i think there's a - correct. i think there's a systemic myopia in media that focuses intently on partisan and electoral politics. the story almost instantaneously fed into this meat grinder in which it became a story about republicans and democrats disagreeing. you almost immediately had the sense that 20 years of combat was set to the side. everyone was focusing on the chaos at the airport. the problem with that framing is we have the story of bipartisan failure. the press loves to cover bipartisan success. they love it when

republicans and democrats come together and seen kumbaya, but they really struggle to cover bipartisan failure. i think what you saw was the story of that particular problem, but also that showed a larger bias. there is i think a tremendous humanitarian story that americans... we weren't covering that. but we were covering that. but we were covering instead is a story that quickly became aboutjoe biden's approval rating. clarissa, do you agree with that critique? l clarissa, do you agree with that critique?— that critique? i think alex raises in _ that critique? i think alex raises in some _ that critique? i think alex raises in some really - that critique? i think alex - raises in some really important points, and i know from my personal experience covering the story that it felt like everything i would say when i was reporting was then kind of shoehorned into someone's political narrative or appropriated by one side or the other. it was like clarissa

ward is a warmonger, or whatever, and none of it had any bearing on reality. all of it, frankly, was a distraction from the real story in my mind, which is what the afghan people were going through and what they were experiencing and what america's role is and what america's role is and what america's responsibly was in that. so it is frustrating as a journalist when you see both sides politically trying to weaponize these issues that ultimately subvert attention from the real focus of. but it isn't not _ from the real focus of. but it isn't not just _ from the real focus of. but it isn't notjust about - from the real focus of. but it isn't notjust about politics i isn't notjust about politics about both sides but decisions taken by editors that think it's easier to make content that's popular if it's seen through domestic politics, rather through experiences of afghans? l rather through experiences of aft hans? ., rather through experiences of aft hans? ~' , , afghans? i think it depends where you _ afghans? i think it depends where you work. _ afghans? i think it depends| where you work. obviously, afghans? i think it depends i where you work. obviously, if you work at one of the big three networks in the us and you have a half—hour evening news show, you're a lot more net limited in how much debt

you can get into. we're lucky at cnn we have 24 hours a day, and i was doing live shots for our morning show that would sometimes go 18 minutes. you are able to have a more expansive conversation. but there's no question that there is a trickle down. of course there is, and there are certain areas there are more interesting to americans, and those areas obviously get the most attention.— those areas obviously get the most attention. alex, there's a stark analysis _ most attention. alex, there's a stark analysis that _ most attention. alex, there's a stark analysis that you - most attention. alex, there's a stark analysis that you offer . stark analysis that you offer us. do you draw that conclusion because there are structural problems within how american news works, or is it particular to this story? i news works, or is it particular to this story?— to this story? i think there are structural _ to this story? i think there are structural problems. i to this story? i think there i are structural problems. this is probably the most glaring example of this. i think because the assumption that americans either don't care about afghanistan or assume the war is not going well to begin with. two things i've written about i think are related — one

is there is a bias what i call new news. the story is much bigger at the chaos at the airport. that is directly related to years of corruption of the afghan government. we didn't get much of that because we had all these images of the airport. the other is i think the distinction between episodic and phonetic coverage. people like clarissa do an exceptionaljob showing us what's happening on the ground, but doesn't always happen is that becomes coverage. we get a narrow focus on what is happening. iili narrow focus on what is happening-— narrow focus on what is haueninu. :, :, happening. if those are some of the challenges _ happening. if those are some of the challenges for _ happening. if those are some of the challenges for us _ happening. if those are some of the challenges for us media, . the challenges for us media, sana, let's look at it from the other side. when you tell the

story of afghanistan to story of afg ha nista n to afg ha ns, how story of afghanistan to afghans, how do they see this story, in domestic terms? it’s story, in domestic terms? it's very hard _ story, in domestic terms? it's very hard to — story, in domestic terms? it's very hard tojudge, but we get all sorts— very hard tojudge, but we get all sorts of criticism. some see — all sorts of criticism. some see us— all sorts of criticism. some see us as _ all sorts of criticism. some see us as completely, it showsm _ see us as completely, it shows... and there is another side _ shows... and there is another side to— shows... and there is another side to see _ shows... and there is another side to see it as an afghan failure _ side to see it as an afghan failure. there is no one way in this, _ failure. there is no one way in this, and _ failure. there is no one way in this, and we probably have the hardest — this, and we probably have the hardestjob because our own audiences are our harshest critics _ audiences are our harshest critics in— audiences are our harshest critics. in these times are very— critics. in these times are very difficult to operate for anybody, but especially somebody like public broadcast like bbc to operate in afghanistan and tell those stories. if you look at what happening in panjshir, we are getting — happening in panjshir, we are getting accusations of being against... there are ethnic

issues _ against... there are ethnic issues as— against... there are ethnic issues as well. it's very hard for us — issues as well. it's very hard for us. :, :,, for us. sana saf, those comments _ for us. sana saf, those comments will - for us. sana saf, those comments will have . for us. sana saf, those comments will have to | for us. sana saf, those i comments will have to be for us. sana saf, those - comments will have to be the final ones because we're out of time. many thanks to all three of you. clarissa ward, sana safi and alex sheppard. thank you for watching here on bbc news. the media show will be back at the usual time next week. till then, buy from me and the team. hello again. yesterday, temperatures reached 22.3 degrees celsius in the warmest parts of the country, and those highs today might be a smidge higher across parts of central and eastern england. but for southern and eastern scotland, parts of western england and wales, a lot of cloud to start the day with some drizzle, a few mist and fog patches as well. the sunniest weather for central and eastern england,

that's where we're going to have the highest temperatures — up to 23. it should be a brighter kind of day across west scotland and northern ireland. here, though, a fresherfeel to the weather with highs of between 17—19 degrees celsius. saturday night sees outbreaks of rain and thunderstorms start to develop across wales, moving northwards to northern england and into scotland. and then, through sunday, this area of heavy, thundery rain starts to push its way eastwards. it becomes really slow—moving across parts of central and eastern england. in the wettest areas, we could see 30—40 mm of rain, enough to cause some localised surface water flooding. but in the west, it turns drier and a bit sunnier as well. that's your latest weather, bye—bye.

this is bbc news — i'm lucy grey. our top stories. the us military admits one of its drone strikes in afghanistan killed ten innocent civilians — including seven children. we now assess that it is unlikely that the vehicle and those who died were associated with isis k or where a direct threat to us forces. after australia, the us and britain agree a new security partnership — france recalls its ambassadors to washington and canberra. england eases restrictions for international travel — scrapping the need for expensive covid tests for fully—vaccinated people arriving from abroad. and — algeria's former president — abdelaziz bouteflika — dies at the age of 84. hello and welcome to bbc news.