laughter. hello and welcome to the programme which brings together leading uk commentators with the foreign correspondents who write, blog and broadcast from the dateline: london. this week: the british led the world in vaccination; why is it now leading europe — with the highest rate of covid? why in the climate battle, net zero is too high. and 12 angry men and women fear being pole—axed. joining us: maria margaronis, editor—at—large for the us magazine, the nation, is just completing work on a documentary about greece's

summer of heat and fire. henry chu has reported from all over the world for the la times, where he's how part of the editorial team. here in the studio, the british author and columnist yasmin ala—bhai brown. a very warm welcome to all of you. only if pressure on the health service from covid is "unsustainable" will borisjohnson�*s government impose restrictions. we learnt on friday that scientists advising him and other ministers think a spike like the one we saw injanuary is "increasingly unlikely". however if the rate of infection grows, "earlier intervention would reduce the need for more stringent, disruptive, and longer lasting measures", they say. still, sustainable means different things in different places. in cornwall, the uk's most southwesterly county, the hospital — there is only one — declared a "critical incident". ambulance waits of up to 12 hours. 100 patients seeking treatment in an emergency department with space for fewer than half that number. 44 people hospitalised with covid in a hospital with a0 beds.

henry chu we seem to be in a moment of decision with the government. thus far saying it is sticking with plan a, but when you compare us with other nations, how comfortable should we be at the moment? and should we be at the moment? and should be worried, and if we should be worried how worried? i should be worried, and if we should be worried how worried?— be worried how worried? i don't think there _ be worried how worried? i don't think there is _ be worried how worried? i don't think there is any _ be worried how worried? i don't think there is any cause - be worried how worried? i don't think there is any cause for- be worried how worried? i don't. think there is any cause for worry at all. _ think there is any cause for worry at all. it— think there is any cause for worry at all, it right now infections with the coronavirus ? cause for confidence. they are triple combined that of— confidence. they are triple combined that of germany, france, italy and spain _ that of germany, france, italy and spain. there's no reason for complacency even there there was a very good _ complacency even there there was a very good and speedy vaccine roll-out — very good and speedy vaccine roll—out at the beginning of the yeah _ roll—out at the beginning of the yeah of— roll—out at the beginning of the year. of course now we're into the fall and _ year. of course now we're into the fall and a — year. of course now we're into the fall and a lot — year. of course now we're into the fall and a lot of those shots might be waning — fall and a lot of those shots might be waning intent of the immunity we are experiencing. debts still at about— are experiencing. debts still at about 100 or more a day. when you put that_ about 100 or more a day. when you put that together we are talking about _ put that together we are talking about nearly 1000 a week and if you are saying _ about nearly 1000 a week and if you

are saying that about any other disease — are saying that about any other disease would be talking about a crisis _ disease would be talking about a crisis and — disease would be talking about a crisis. and yet some people including _ crisis. and yet some people including the government seem to have now— including the government seem to have now concluded that this an acceptable level and that we just need _ acceptable level and that we just need to— acceptable level and that we just need to learn to live with the coronavirus which is true. in a scientific— coronavirus which is true. in a scientific sense. certainly ways to minimise — scientific sense. certainly ways to minimise its impact, and right now the government which prides itself on saving — the government which prides itself on saying that it goes with the science, — on saying that it goes with the science, follows the science, while so many _ science, follows the science, while so many scientists are saying that we do _ so many scientists are saying that we do need some kind of new measures or imposition _ we do need some kind of new measures or imposition of some fairly easy low impact — or imposition of some fairly easy low impact measures that can help mitigate _ low impact measures that can help mitigate what's happening. and keep the infection from spreading. i think— the infection from spreading. i think right now the government seems to be putting all of its eggs in a vaccination basket. and the vaccines definitely— vaccination basket. and the vaccines definitely are miracle of science or some _ definitely are miracle of science or some people might even say from god. but when _ some people might even say from god. but when i _ some people might even say from god. but when i miracle throws you a lifeboat — but when i miracle throws you a lifeboat it's on you to keep it inflated _ lifeboat it's on you to keep it inflated. i'm not sure the government is doing that at the moment — government is doing that at the moment. we government is doing that at the moment. ~ ., government is doing that at the moment. ~ . , ., , , moment. we have prided ourselves in the uk on the —

moment. we have prided ourselves in the uk on the success _ moment. we have prided ourselves in the uk on the success of— moment. we have prided ourselves in the uk on the success of the - the uk on the success of the vaccination programme, and on its reach. though it is a bit of a plateau now because a certain portion of the population seem to not want to get vaccinated. the booster programme which is the third jab to put it simply, it has been left that that is not going quite so well. what is the problem? i have 'ust been well. what is the problem? i have just been offered _ well. what is the problem? i have just been offered my _ well. what is the problem? i have just been offered my booster- well. what is the problem? i have i just been offered my booster which i am thrilled about. i think the role that was run mostly by the nhs and gp surgeries, and i don't know quite what has happened there. i'm being called by my gp and was from my previous jabs. there's a sort of falling off of take—up i think. i think people have become complacent and there's a weird kind of split in the country which is the same as or more related to a split we had a long time ago over many issues. there is, on the one hand a sort of loss of trust in the government

which has changed intact many times during this pandemic. we had to pry mr saying let the bodies piled up which has itself been very complacent and at odds with itself about how to proceed. and on the other side there's this kind of cavalier defiance like i'm 0k, other side there's this kind of cavalier defiance like i'm ok, it's not going to be a problem. so if you take the tube in london these days fewer than half the people on the tube are wearing a face covering. even though when you walk down into the station there's an announcement saying you must wear a face covering on all london transit. this feeling of british people completely ignoring the rules is quite odd and new to me. ignoring the rules is quite odd and new to me— ignoring the rules is quite odd and new to me. , . ., ~ ., new to me. experience of think that is a contrast — new to me. experience of think that is a contrast in _ new to me. experience of think that is a contrast in the _ new to me. experience of think that is a contrast in the enforcement - new to me. experience of think that is a contrast in the enforcement of. is a contrast in the enforcement of the rules in this country and the enforcement of the rules in france? we got back from parents and the french_ we got back from parents and the french countryside, _ we got back from parents and the french countryside, we _ we got back from parents and the french countryside, we use - we got back from parents and the french countryside, we use the i we got back from parents and the - french countryside, we use the metro all the _ french countryside, we use the metro all the and _ french countryside, we use the metro all the and not — french countryside, we use the metro all the and not once _ french countryside, we use the metro all the and not once and _

french countryside, we use the metro all the and not once and not- french countryside, we use the metro all the and not once and not one - all the and not once and not one restaurant, not _ all the and not once and not one restaurant, not one _ all the and not once and not one restaurant, not one metro - all the and not once and not one restaurant, not one metro trainl all the and not once and not one . restaurant, not one metro train did we see _ restaurant, not one metro train did we see an — restaurant, not one metro train did we see an unmasked _ restaurant, not one metro train did we see an unmasked person. - restaurant, not one metro train did i we see an unmasked person. imagine that! and _ we see an unmasked person. imagine that! and there — we see an unmasked person. imagine that! and there was _ we see an unmasked person. imagine that! and there was one _ we see an unmasked person. imagine that! and there was one moment - we see an unmasked person. imagine. that! and there was one moment when somebody— that! and there was one moment when somebody was— that! and there was one moment when somebody was taking _ that! and there was one moment when somebody was taking their— that! and there was one moment when somebody was taking their mask - that! and there was one moment when somebody was taking their mask off. somebody was taking their mask off and we _ somebody was taking their mask off and we heard — somebody was taking their mask off and we heard some _ somebody was taking their mask off and we heard some security- somebody was taking their mask off and we heard some security guy- somebody was taking their mask off and we heard some security guy or. and we heard some security guy or whoever _ and we heard some security guy or whoever it — and we heard some security guy or whoever it was _ and we heard some security guy or whoever it was saying, _ and we heard some security guy or whoever it was saying, 135 - and we heard some security guy or whoever it was saying, 135 euros . whoever it was saying, 135 euros fine if _ whoever it was saying, 135 euros fine if you — whoever it was saying, 135 euros fine if you do— whoever it was saying, 135 euros fine if you do that. _ whoever it was saying, 135 euros fine if you do that. and - whoever it was saying, 135 euros fine if you do that. and there - whoever it was saying, 135 euros - fine if you do that. and there seems to he _ fine if you do that. and there seems to he a _ fine if you do that. and there seems to he a total— fine if you do that. and there seems to be a total understanding that - to be a total understanding that this is— to be a total understanding that this is about _ to be a total understanding that this is about society— to be a total understanding that this is about society and - to be a total understanding that this is about society and how i to be a total understanding that - this is about society and how we owe each other— this is about society and how we owe each other and — this is about society and how we owe each other and ourselves, _ this is about society and how we owe each other and ourselves, and - this is about society and how we owe each other and ourselves, and i- this is about society and how we owe each other and ourselves, and ijustl each other and ourselves, and ijust thought— each other and ourselves, and ijust thought i_ each other and ourselves, and ijust thought i arrived _ each other and ourselves, and ijust thought i arrived in— each other and ourselves, and ijust thought i arrived in a _ each other and ourselves, and ijust thought i arrived in a much- thought i arrived in a much more civilised — thought i arrived in a much more civilised place _ thought i arrived in a much more civilised place where _ thought i arrived in a much more civilised place where people - thought i arrived in a much more civilised place where people arel civilised place where people are taking _ civilised place where people are taking care _ civilised place where people are taking care of— civilised place where people are taking care of each _ civilised place where people are taking care of each other- civilised place where people are taking care of each other a - civilised place where people arej taking care of each other a little bit more — taking care of each other a little bit more and _ taking care of each other a little bit more and here _ taking care of each other a little bit more and here i— taking care of each other a little bit more and here i don't- bit more and here i don't necessarily— bit more and here i don't necessarily blame - bit more and here i don't necessarily blame the i bit more and here i don't- necessarily blame the public. i think— necessarily blame the public. i think there _ necessarily blame the public. i think there are _ necessarily blame the public. i think there are some - necessarily blame the public. i think there are some people . necessarily blame the public. i. think there are some people who necessarily blame the public. i- think there are some people who are completely— think there are some people who are completely immune _ think there are some people who are completely immune to _ think there are some people who are completely immune to information, i completely immune to information, warnings _ completely immune to information, warnings and — completely immune to information, warnings and so _ completely immune to information, warnings and so on. _ completely immune to information, warnings and so on. but— completely immune to information, warnings and so on. but the - completely immune to information, warnings and so on. but the mixed i warnings and so on. but the mixed messaging, — warnings and so on. but the mixed messaging, and _ warnings and so on. but the mixed messaging, and i'm _ warnings and so on. but the mixed messaging, and i'm trying - warnings and so on. but the mixed messaging, and i'm trying very- warnings and so on. but the mixed i messaging, and i'm trying very hard because _ messaging, and i'm trying very hard because we — messaging, and i'm trying very hard because we have _ messaging, and i'm trying very hard because we have been _ messaging, and i'm trying very hard because we have been instructed i messaging, and i'm trying very hard because we have been instructed to| because we have been instructed to so many— because we have been instructed to so manvtimes. _ because we have been instructed to so manvtimes. to— because we have been instructed to so many times, to try— because we have been instructed to so many times, to try and - because we have been instructed to. so many times, to try and understand why the _ so many times, to try and understand why the government _ so many times, to try and understand why the government is _ so many times, to try and understand why the government is doing - so many times, to try and understand why the government is doing this. - why the government is doing this. you are _ why the government is doing this. you are displaying _ why the government is doing this. you are displaying empathy. -

why the government is doing this. you are displaying empathy. , - why the government is doing this. | you are displaying empathy. , and with maria said _ you are displaying empathy. , and with maria said this _ you are displaying empathy. , and with maria said this kind _ you are displaying empathy. , and with maria said this kind of - you are displaying empathy. , and with maria said this kind of not knowing — with maria said this kind of not knowing which _ with maria said this kind of not knowing which way _ with maria said this kind of not knowing which way to - with maria said this kind of not knowing which way to really. with maria said this kind of not i knowing which way to really come down _ knowing which way to really come down on. — knowing which way to really come down on. they— knowing which way to really come down on, they are _ knowing which way to really come down on, they are caught- knowing which way to really come i down on, they are caught between social— down on, they are caught between social responsibility— down on, they are caught between social responsibility which - down on, they are caught between social responsibility which is - down on, they are caught between social responsibility which is theirl social responsibility which is their 'ob, social responsibility which is their job, and — social responsibility which is their job, and the _ social responsibility which is their job, and the capitalism _ social responsibility which is their job, and the capitalism to - social responsibility which is their job, and the capitalism to which i job, and the capitalism to which they— job, and the capitalism to which they are — job, and the capitalism to which they are permitted, _ job, and the capitalism to which they are permitted, which - job, and the capitalism to which. they are permitted, which means business — they are permitted, which means business and _ they are permitted, which means business and profits _ they are permitted, which means business and profits and - they are permitted, which means l business and profits and nothing... they— business and profits and nothing... they are _ business and profits and nothing... they are torn — business and profits and nothing... they are torn between _ business and profits and nothing... they are torn between them - business and profits and nothing... they are torn between them the i they are torn between them the health— they are torn between them the health secretary _ they are torn between them the health secretary said _ they are torn between them the health secretary said earlier- they are torn between them the health secretary said earlier in l they are torn between them the l health secretary said earlier in the week— health secretary said earlier in the week it _ health secretary said earlier in the week it would _ health secretary said earlier in the week it would be _ health secretary said earlier in the week it would be a _ health secretary said earlier in the week it would be a good _ health secretary said earlier in the week it would be a good thing - health secretary said earlier in the week it would be a good thing if. week it would be a good thing if conservative _ week it would be a good thing if conservative mps _ week it would be a good thing if conservative mps wore - week it would be a good thing if conservative mps wore masks . week it would be a good thing if- conservative mps wore masks because that would _ conservative mps wore masks because that would send — conservative mps wore masks because that would send a _ conservative mps wore masks because that would send a signal— conservative mps wore masks because that would send a signal reminder- conservative mps wore masks because that would send a signal reminder to. that would send a signal reminder to people _ that would send a signal reminder to people that — that would send a signal reminder to people that this _ that would send a signal reminder to people that this is _ that would send a signal reminder to people that this is still— that would send a signal reminder to people that this is still a _ that would send a signal reminder to people that this is still a pandemic. people that this is still a pandemic and whether— people that this is still a pandemic and whether you _ people that this is still a pandemic and whether you think— people that this is still a pandemic and whether you think masks - people that this is still a pandemic and whether you think masks or. people that this is still a pandemic. and whether you think masks or some magic— and whether you think masks or some magic solution — and whether you think masks or some magic solution or— and whether you think masks or some magic solution or not _ and whether you think masks or some magic solution or not it _ and whether you think masks or some magic solution or not it sort _ magic solution or not it sort of symbolic _ magic solution or not it sort of symbolic-— symbolic. and if the house of commons _ symbolic. and if the house of commons saying _ symbolic. and if the house of commons saying actually - symbolic. and if the house of commons saying actually we | symbolic. and if the house of - commons saying actually we don't need to wear masks because we all know each other and we are kind of friends. g ., . ., , , ., , friends. jacob re-smog, if they don't do it _ friends. jacob re-smog, if they don't do it how _ friends. jacob re-smog, if they don't do it how are _ friends. jacob re-smog, if they don't do it how are the - friends. jacob re-smog, if they don't do it how are the public. don't do it how are the public supposed to follow? my grandson, who is ten, _ supposed to follow? my grandson, who is ten, went— supposed to follow? my grandson, who is ten, went on a school trip. the

kids, _ is ten, went on a school trip. the kids. all— is ten, went on a school trip. the kids, all seven, 11 or 12 of them and the — kids, all seven, 11 or 12 of them and the teachers came back with covid _ and the teachers came back with covid. because they're in a city where — covid. because they're in a city where nobody was taking care. i don't _ where nobody was taking care. i don't think— where nobody was taking care. i don't think we should be allowing our citizens to be opened up to such risk. ., our citizens to be opened up to such risk. . , . , risk. there a difficulty here. on the one hand _ risk. there a difficulty here. on the one hand these _ risk. there a difficulty here. on the one hand these measures l risk. there a difficulty here. on i the one hand these measures are risk. there a difficulty here. on - the one hand these measures are the so—called plan b which would be facemasks, mandated and social distance. people working from home etc. there would be doing that in scotland and yes the figures are coming down, doing that in wales as well and the figures going up. this is not a magic solution. i had well and the figures going up. this is not a magic solution.— is not a magic solution. i had a look at the _ is not a magic solution. i had a look at the figures _ is not a magic solution. i had a look at the figures are - is not a magic solution. i had a i look at the figures are wales and scotland and i don't think it is that clear. figures in wales going up that clear. figures in wales going up for some time. there is no magic solution but there are sensible things that we can do. it is not so difficult to wear a mask unless you are someone who really can't in

which case you are exempt. and i have a feeling that people have so much lost faith that even if mask wearing was mandated, unless there were on the spot fines like the one yasmin is referring to in france, you look at people in crowded places in london and say, there's this funny feeling of, i am wearing a mask, why are you not but you don't want to say anything because that feels awkward and like you are being bossy, and there are more people not wearing masks then wearing masks. so it's become so confusing that actually think we have sort of lost the plot. i actually think we have sort of lost the lot. . ~ , the plot. i also think this government _ the plot. i also think this government as - the plot. i also think this government as i - the plot. i also think this i government as i mentioned the plot. i also think this - government as i mentioned before the plot. i also think this _ government as i mentioned before it has been _ government as i mentioned before it has been such a big deal of the vaccines— has been such a big deal of the vaccines come i don't want to underplav_ vaccines come i don't want to underplay them, they are important and how— underplay them, they are important and how we combat this virus but they are — and how we combat this virus but they are not the be—all and is plan b that _ they are not the be—all and is plan b that we — they are not the be—all and is plan b that we are talking about which you referred to and enumerated the elements— you referred to and enumerated the elements resolve, this is not some draconian— elements resolve, this is not some draconian oppressive system that

they want— draconian oppressive system that they want to inaugurate. it just saying — they want to inaugurate. it just saying that masks might be mandated, but they— saying that masks might be mandated, but they encourage you to work from home, _ but they encourage you to work from home, encourages social distancing. it's home, encourages social distancing. it's not _ home, encourages social distancing. it's not really putting in place anything _ it's not really putting in place anything very onerous. it's all very low impact — anything very onerous. it's all very low impact and what the government refrained _ low impact and what the government refrained from doing that is kind of a mystery— refrained from doing that is kind of a mystery to me. refrained from doing that is kind of a mystery to me— a mystery to me. imposing restrictions _ a mystery to me. imposing restrictions next _ a mystery to me. imposing restrictions next week - a mystery to me. imposing restrictions next week will | a mystery to me. imposing i restrictions next week will not a mystery to me. imposing - restrictions next week will not look good to register for more than 100 heads of government arrive for copper 26, the 26th conference of the parties on climate change. the prime minister will be in glasgow even after lead documents show governments arguing against an end to coal. they want to become a net zero x 2050, why is net zero not low enough, maria? to zero x 2050, why is net zero not low enough. maria?— enough, maria? to start by saying what net zero _ enough, maria? to start by saying what net zero means, _ enough, maria? to start by saying what net zero means, it's - enough, maria? to start by saying i what net zero means, it's important to understand it. net zero means that any greenhouse gases that we continue to emit are offset equally

by greenhouse gas sinks like boris or technological means. that means the whole planet in a global way has to reach net zero by 2050. in order to at least slow climate change, the climate crisis down. that is a huge asked, right? but it is crucial. and it also, in terms of the uk and our own governments net zero project, which britain is the first i think highly developed country to actually enshrine a net zero target in law, thatis enshrine a net zero target in law, that is we have to reach net zero x 2050, quite a lot of criticism of this plan. 0ne mainly saying it does not go far enough, it's a great thing so that goes in the table

first of all. there is, the main criticism is that it does not include a sense that we actually are going to have to change the way not just until 2050, but permanently. we can no longer rely on so much energy, we have to consume less. that's not in the plan at all. what is in the plan is changing overfrom gas to heat pumps for heating houses. domestic heating accounts for about a third of greenhouse gas emissions in the uk. that's a good thing and there's been a criticism that does not go far enough and there's not enough of the subsidy. and is not organised enough. there's also question about are we talking about a real net zero that is where our imports also are net zero, and for example we are notjust producing less building materials here and importing them from elsewhere. irate here and importing them from

elsewhere-— elsewhere. we are effectively increasing _ elsewhere. we are effectively increasing the _ elsewhere. we are effectively increasing the amount - elsewhere. we are effectively increasing the amount of - elsewhere. we are effectively i increasing the amount of carbon elsewhere in the world. has increasing the amount of carbon elsewhere in the world.- increasing the amount of carbon elsewhere in the world. has to be, so they not — elsewhere in the world. has to be, so they not very — elsewhere in the world. has to be, so they not very good _ elsewhere in the world. has to be, so they not very good at _ elsewhere in the world. has to be, so they not very good at all, - elsewhere in the world. has to be, so they not very good at all, a - so they not very good at all, a global cooperation.— so they not very good at all, a global cooperation. henry, what you reorted global cooperation. henry, what you reported on — global cooperation. henry, what you reported on the _ global cooperation. henry, what you reported on the summer, _ global cooperation. henry, what you reported on the summer, what - global cooperation. henry, what you reported on the summer, what if. global cooperation. henry, what you| reported on the summer, what if you come to the conclusion for and the work you have been doing what happened in greece and southern europe? happened in greece and southern euro e? ~ ., happened in greece and southern euroe? . ., , happened in greece and southern euroe? . . ., ., europe? what became clear to me re ”ortin europe? what became clear to me reporting on _ europe? what became clear to me reporting on the — europe? what became clear to me reporting on the fires _ europe? what became clear to me reporting on the fires is _ europe? what became clear to me reporting on the fires is that - reporting on the fires is that already the climate crisis is hitting very hard all over the world come in local places and that the response, the reaction is local. when you talk to people in this place is they don't say is the climate crisis commits climate change they go, the government let us down. there weren't enough things. the fire to promote wasn't competent. there's this local response which comes way before an understanding of the global situation. and so we have to, it's

that old slogan, think globally, act locally. that old slogan, think globally, act locall . , ., , , that old slogan, think globally, act locall . , . , , ., , locally. henry, iwas 'ust really interested * locally. henry, iwas 'ust really interested in h locally. henry, iwas 'ust really interested in the _ locally. henry, iwasjust really interested in the point - locally. henry, iwasjust really interested in the point she's i locally. henry, i wasjust really- interested in the point she's making because this is a problem presumably forjoe biden. he's going to come to glasgow, doubtless going to sign up to whatever he is agreed, i'm not presuming anything but i think he is on the side of those who want to deal next week. but that he is going to go back to people who remain sceptical about climate change even as they watched parts of their world kind of evaporate around them inflame. in kind of evaporate around them inflame. .. kind of evaporate around them inflame. ., ., ., , inflame. in fact, california, my home state — inflame. in fact, california, my home state with _ inflame. in fact, california, my home state with her _ inflame. in fact, california, my home state with her a - inflame. in fact, california, my home state with her a very - inflame. in fact, california, my. home state with her a very brutal summer— home state with her a very brutal summer where home state with her a very brutal summerwhere we home state with her a very brutal summer where we had another year of a single _ summer where we had another year of a single fire _ summer where we had another year of a single fire burning nearlyi million _ a single fire burning nearlyi million acres. that's just phenomenal the amount of damage and destruction— phenomenal the amount of damage and destruction that has wrought. he had fires in _ destruction that has wrought. he had fires in organ and edging into canada — fires in organ and edging into canada as well that were so large they created their own weather systems — they created their own weather systems. some of which perhaps spawned — systems. some of which perhaps spawned other fires through lightning strikes. it's an incredible problem now hitting the

us and _ incredible problem now hitting the us and affecting millions upon millions— us and affecting millions upon millions of people. the budget administration actually has talked a -ood administration actually has talked a good talk— administration actually has talked a good talk about climate change, he has often _ good talk about climate change, he has often been sacred what an important priority it is for not just— important priority it is for not just the — important priority it is for not just the us but the world to tackle. no doubt _ just the us but the world to tackle. no doubt as you say in glasgow he will continue to talk the good talk. it is will continue to talk the good talk. it is at _ will continue to talk the good talk. it is at home where you have lawmakers holding up that agenda whereas _ lawmakers holding up that agenda whereas really going to come down to the crunch _ whereas really going to come down to the crunch. democratic senator in the crunch. democratic senator in the republicans are uniformly against — the republicans are uniformly against it almost at a democratic senator— against it almost at a democratic senator who has himself gotten rich from coal— senator who has himself gotten rich from coal is— senator who has himself gotten rich from coal is holding up the idea of converting — from coal is holding up the idea of converting more and more to clean energy _ converting more and more to clean energy so — converting more and more to clean energy. so that's really going to be a problem — energy. so that's really going to be a problem. when it comes to the public— a problem. when it comes to the public support it does deserve to be said that _ public support it does deserve to be said that in — public support it does deserve to be said that in the us there have been denied _ said that in the us there have been denied lists over climate change. right _ denied lists over climate change. right now— denied lists over climate change. right now a new poll this month shows— right now a new poll this month shows that 75% of people in the us actually— shows that 75% of people in the us actually do agree that global warming is a problem. only 12% deny

it. it warming is a problem. only 12% deny it it shows— warming is a problem. only 12% deny it. it shows that the lawmakers themselves have not caught up with public— themselves have not caught up with public opinion. find themselves have not caught up with public opinion-— public opinion. and the 1296 are uuite public opinion. and the 1296 are quite noisy- — public opinion. and the 1296 are quite noisy. yasmin, _ public opinion. and the 1296 are quite noisy. yasmin, henry - public opinion. and the 1296 are | quite noisy. yasmin, henry was making the point about coal and the political influence of coal. we see these leaked reports in countries like india are saying hang on a minute, don't talk about coal as having to move quite so fast but to be fair to a country of india's size, it could not eliminate coal on the scale that would be quite comfortable for us. irate the scale that would be quite comfortable for us.— the scale that would be quite comfortable for us. we are talking about nations _ comfortable for us. we are talking about nations that _ comfortable for us. we are talking about nations that are _ comfortable for us. we are talking about nations that are deeply - about nations that are deeply unequal— about nations that are deeply unegual in— about nations that are deeply unequal in terms _ about nations that are deeply unequal in terms of- about nations that are deeply unequal in terms of global i about nations that are deeply- unequal in terms of global influence and, unequal in terms of global influence and. china _ unequal in terms of global influence and, china could _ unequal in terms of global influence and, china could and _ unequal in terms of global influence and, china could and does - unequal in terms of global influence and, china could and does do - unequal in terms of global influence and, china could and does do morel and, china could and does do more because _ and, china could and does do more because it — and, china could and does do more because it is — and, china could and does do more because it is not _ and, china could and does do more because it is not a _ and, china could and does do more because it is not a democracy- because it is not a democracy basically~ _ because it is not a democracy basically. this _ because it is not a democracy basically. this is _ because it is not a democracy basically. this is the - because it is not a democracy basically. this is the sad - because it is not a democracy. basically. this is the sad news. i was at _ basically. this is the sad news. i was at the — basically. this is the sad news. i was at the rio— basically. this is the sad news. i was at the rio summit - basically. this is the sad news. i was at the rio summit all - basically. this is the sad news. i was at the rio summit all those | was at the rio summit all those years— was at the rio summit all those years ago — was at the rio summit all those years ago-— years ago. the earth summit as it was called- _ years ago. the earth summit as it was called. or _ years ago. the earth summit as it was called. or one _ years ago. the earth summit as it was called. or one of— years ago. the earth summit as it was called. or one of the - years ago. the earth summit as it was called. or one of the most. was called. or one of the most interesting _ was called. or one of the most interesting moments - was called. or one of the most interesting moments was - was called. or one of the most interesting moments was an i interesting moments was an actress stood _ interesting moments was an actress

stood up _ interesting moments was an actress stood up and — interesting moments was an actress stood up and said— interesting moments was an actress stood up and said here _ interesting moments was an actress stood up and said here we _ interesting moments was an actress stood up and said here we are - interesting moments was an actress stood up and said here we are at- stood up and said here we are at this grand — stood up and said here we are at this grand place _ stood up and said here we are at this grand place in _ stood up and said here we are at this grand place in rio— stood up and said here we are at this grand place in rio talking i stood up and said here we are at. this grand place in rio talking like we are, _ this grand place in rio talking like we are, and — this grand place in rio talking like we are, and they— this grand place in rio talking like we are, and they are, _ this grand place in rio talking like we are, and they are, it's - this grand place in rio talking likel we are, and they are, it's genocide of trees— we are, and they are, it's genocide of trees in— we are, and they are, it's genocide of trees in brazil. _ we are, and they are, it's genocide of trees in brazil. and _ we are, and they are, it's genocide of trees in brazil. and nobody- we are, and they are, it's genocide of trees in brazil. and nobody is. of trees in brazil. and nobody is stopping — of trees in brazil. and nobody is stopping it _ of trees in brazil. and nobody is stopping it and _ of trees in brazil. and nobody is stopping it. and that— of trees in brazil. and nobody is stopping it. and that has- of trees in brazil. and nobody is stopping it. and that has not. stopping it. and that has not changed _ stopping it. and that has not changed the _ stopping it. and that has not changed. the genocide - stopping it. and that has not changed. the genocide of. stopping it. and that has not- changed. the genocide of trees, is a very interesting _ changed. the genocide of trees, is a very interesting paper— changed. the genocide of trees, is a very interesting paper i _ changed. the genocide of trees, is a very interesting paper i read - changed. the genocide of trees, is a very interesting paper i read today. very interesting paper i read today which _ very interesting paper i read today which said — very interesting paper i read today which said we _ very interesting paper i read today which said we cannot _ very interesting paper i read today which said we cannot plant - very interesting paper i read today| which said we cannot plant enough trees— which said we cannot plant enough trees the _ which said we cannot plant enough trees the time _ which said we cannot plant enough trees the time that _ which said we cannot plant enough trees the time that we _ which said we cannot plant enough trees the time that we think- which said we cannot plant enough trees the time that we think we . which said we cannot plant enoughl trees the time that we think we can and my— trees the time that we think we can and my other— trees the time that we think we can and my other big _ trees the time that we think we can and my other big anxiety is- trees the time that we think we can and my other big anxiety is this - trees the time that we think we can and my other big anxiety is this big| and my other big anxiety is this big talk is _ and my other big anxiety is this big talk is all— and my other big anxiety is this big talk is all about _ and my other big anxiety is this big talk is all about future _ and my other big anxiety is this big talk is all about future technology. | talk is all about future technology. it's talk is all about future technology. it's all _ talk is all about future technology. it's all going — talk is all about future technology. it's all going be _ talk is all about future technology. it's all going be solved _ talk is all about future technology. it's all going be solved by- it's all going be solved by entrepreneurs— it's all going be solved by entrepreneurs and - it's all going be solved by entrepreneurs and thesel it's all going be solved by- entrepreneurs and these solutions will fall— entrepreneurs and these solutions will fall upon — entrepreneurs and these solutions will fall upon us. _ entrepreneurs and these solutions will fall upon us. stop _ entrepreneurs and these solutions will fall upon us. stop and - entrepreneurs and these solutions will fall upon us. stop and think, i will fall upon us. stop and think, we are _ will fall upon us. stop and think, we are really. _ will fall upon us. stop and think, we are really, really— will fall upon us. stop and think, we are really, really now - will fall upon us. stop and think, we are really, really now drifting j we are really, really now drifting towards — we are really, really now drifting towards the _ we are really, really now drifting towards the end _ we are really, really now drifting towards the end of— we are really, really now drifting towards the end of the _ we are really, really now drifting towards the end of the planet i we are really, really now drifting i towards the end of the planet and one hopes — towards the end of the planet and one hopes he _ towards the end of the planet and one hopes he is _ towards the end of the planet and one hopes he is right— towards the end of the planet and one hopes he is right but- towards the end of the planet and one hopes he is right but he's- towards the end of the planet and one hopes he is right but he's not| one hopes he is right but he's not entirely— one hopes he is right but he's not entirely realistic. _ one hopes he is right but he's not entirely realistic. isillin— one hopes he is right but he's not

entirely realistic.— entirely realistic. will talk more about this next _ entirely realistic. will talk more about this next week _ entirely realistic. will talk more about this next week as - entirely realistic. will talk more about this next week as the - entirely realistic. will talk more - about this next week as the summit begins next weekend. did brussels witness a changing of the guard this week? angela merkel may have attended her final meeting of europe's council of ministers. her 16 years in the german chancellery is ending with an all—mighty european bust—up after poland's most seniorjudges decided that the country's constitution trumps european union law — breaking the most basic building block of the eu. a dozen countries lined up to oppose poland's defiance. ridiculous! said one eu leader. step forward viktor 0rban. the prime minister of hungary, now europe's elder statesman, declared "the polish are right". yasmin come public constitution is not the first to say we are not happy about eu law, the german court to set it about the ecb and the european court ofjustice saying... these are 27 nations trying to make it work _ these are 27 nations trying to make it work it's — these are 27 nations trying to make it work. it's never— these are 27 nations trying to make it work. it's never easy. _ these are 27 nations trying to make it work. it's never easy. but, you i it work. it's never easy. but, you know, _ it work. it's never easy. but, you know. i_ it work. it's never easy. but, you know. ido— it work. it's never easy. but, you know. i do not— it work. it's never easy. but, you know, i do not give _ it work. it's never easy. but, you know, i do not give up— it work. it's never easy. but, you know, i do not give up on- it work. it's never easy. but, you know, i do not give up on good i know, i do not give up on good liberal— know, i do not give up on good liberal values. _ know, i do not give up on good liberalvalues. look— know, i do not give up on good liberal values. look at -

know, i do not give up on good liberal values. look at ireland. | liberal values. look at ireland. for the longest— liberal values. look at ireland. for the longest time _ liberal values. look at ireland. for the longest time the _ liberal values. look at ireland. for the longest time the irish - liberal values. look at ireland. for the longest time the irish law- liberal values. look at ireland. for the longest time the irish law wasl the longest time the irish law was actually— the longest time the irish law was actually a — the longest time the irish law was actually a direct _ the longest time the irish law was actually a direct kind _ the longest time the irish law was actually a direct kind of— actually a direct kind of repudiation _ actually a direct kind of repudiation of- actually a direct kind of repudiation of what - actually a direct kind of repudiation of what alll actually a direct kind of. repudiation of what all the actually a direct kind of- repudiation of what all the other actually a direct kind of— repudiation of what all the other eu countries, _ repudiation of what all the other eu countries, most _ repudiation of what all the other eu countries, most of _ repudiation of what all the other eu countries, most of them, _ repudiation of what all the other eu countries, most of them, not - repudiation of what all the other eu countries, most of them, not all. repudiation of what all the other eu countries, most of them, not all of| countries, most of them, not all of them, _ countries, most of them, not all of them, look— countries, most of them, not all of them, look what _ countries, most of them, not all of them, look what happened - countries, most of them, not all of them, look what happened next. i countries, most of them, not all of i them, look what happened next. the liberal— them, look what happened next. the liberal people — them, look what happened next. the liberal people push _ them, look what happened next. the liberal people push the _ them, look what happened next. the liberal people push the liberal- them, look what happened next. the liberal people push the liberal law i liberal people push the liberal law that was— liberal people push the liberal law that was absolutely— liberal people push the liberal law that was absolutely needed, - liberal people push the liberal law. that was absolutely needed, and... isn't that was absolutely needed, and... isn't the _ that was absolutely needed, and... isn't the point— that was absolutely needed, and... isn't the point is _ that was absolutely needed, and... isn't the point is that _ that was absolutely needed, and... isn't the point is that effective - isn't the point is that effective the point, he came from the nation state, not from brussels saying no this is not european. the state, not from brussels saying no this is not european.— this is not european. the ec] is a very important — this is not european. the ec] is a very important institution - this is not european. the ec] is a very important institution which l this is not european. the ec] is a| very important institution which is why it _ very important institution which is why it is _ very important institution which is why it is resented. _ very important institution which is why it is resented. because - very important institution which isl why it is resented. because people don't _ why it is resented. because people don't like _ why it is resented. because people don't like its — why it is resented. because people don't like itsjudgements _ why it is resented. because people don't like its judgements and - why it is resented. because peoplej don't like itsjudgements and often then based — don't like itsjudgements and often then based on— don't like itsjudgements and often then based on things _ don't like itsjudgements and often then based on things that - don't like itsjudgements and often then based on things that are - don't like itsjudgements and oftenl then based on things that are above nations— then based on things that are above nations and — then based on things that are above nations and all— then based on things that are above nations and all of— then based on things that are above nations and all of that. _ then based on things that are above nations and all of that. one - then based on things that are above nations and all of that. one of - nations and all of that. one of the things— nations and all of that. one of the things that — nations and all of that. one of the things that needs _ nations and all of that. one of the things that needs to _ nations and all of that. one of the things that needs to be _ nations and all of that. one of the i things that needs to be remembered is that— things that needs to be remembered is that there — things that needs to be remembered is that there is — things that needs to be remembered is that there is a _ things that needs to be remembered is that there is a younger _ is that there is a younger population— is that there is a younger population in— is that there is a younger population in poland. i is that there is a younger population in poland. we is that there is a younger i population in poland. we have is that there is a younger - population in poland. we have met some _ population in poland. we have met some polish— population in poland. we have met some polish people _ population in poland. we have met some polish people in _ population in poland. we have met some polish people in france i population in poland. we have met some polish people in france whol some polish people in france who live in_ some polish people in france who live in france _ some polish people in france who live in france although _ some polish people in france who live in france although earning.

some polish people in france who. live in france although earning less the polish — live in france although earning less the polish economy— live in france although earning less the polish economy is _ the polish economy is extraordinarily- the polish economy is - extraordinarily successful at the moment — extraordinarily successful at the moment we _ extraordinarily successful at the moment. we asked _ extraordinarily successful at the moment. we asked them - extraordinarily successful at the moment. we asked them why, i extraordinarily successful at the i moment. we asked them why, and extraordinarily successful at the - moment. we asked them why, and they said because _ moment. we asked them why, and they said because here _ moment. we asked them why, and they said because here we _ moment. we asked them why, and they said because here we have _ moment. we asked them why, and they said because here we have rights. - said because here we have rights. and we _ said because here we have rights. and we like — said because here we have rights. and we like having _ said because here we have rights. and we like having rights. - said because here we have rights. and we like having rights. 50. said because here we have rights. and we like having rights. so you| and we like having rights. so you see, _ and we like having rights. so you see, the — and we like having rights. so you see, the young _ and we like having rights. so you see, the young will— and we like having rights. so you see, the young will change - and we like having rights. so you. see, the young will change things. so don't _ see, the young will change things. so don't be — see, the young will change things. so don't be too _ see, the young will change things. so don't be too pessimistic. - see, the young will change things. | so don't be too pessimistic. michel barnier, which led people in brussels would say is a good european, they say that france must quote its legal sovereignty unless all could be subject to the judgements of the european court of justice. is there now a growing consensus that actually the european authority has gone a bit too far evenin authority has gone a bit too far even in member countries that are at the heart of europe?— the heart of europe? jasmine is wretch that _ the heart of europe? jasmine is wretch that making _ the heart of europe? jasmine is wretch that making it _ the heart of europe? jasmine is wretch that making it possible i the heart of europe? jasmine is l wretch that making it possible for 27 different nation states to work together is an absolutely utopian project but i think what we are seeing now is the tension between

those two ideas of europe. it's a capitalist club. the french issue and polish issue and hungarian issue are extremely important because they are extremely important because they are a challenge directly to the idea of social europe. the polish government and hungarian government want to be able to run authoritarian governments commit victor or has studies leading a liberal democracy come poland women have tried to work very hard to regain the right to abortion and most polish people want to stay the eu. so the union has a very difficult challenge ahead which is how to keep poland in while protecting the rights of people in poland who looked to the european union exactly for that.— union exactly for that. when we say social eumpe _ union exactly for that. when we say social europe we _ union exactly for that. when we say social europe we are _ union exactly for that. when we say social europe we are citing - union exactly for that. when we say social europe we are citing some . social europe we are citing some sociat— social europe we are citing some social policies for example on abortion— social policies for example on abortion where the treatment of lgbt

people _ abortion where the treatment of lgbt people but let's remember when it comes— people but let's remember when it comes to _ people but let's remember when it comes to poland specifically we are also talking about a pillar of democracy, notjust social also talking about a pillar of democracy, not just social policy and that — democracy, not just social policy and that is— democracy, not just social policy and that is the judiciary which in poland — and that is the judiciary which in poland has now become subordinate to the ruling _ poland has now become subordinate to the ruling party comes to the law and justice party of the prime ministeh _ and justice party of the prime minister. what we are talking about now minister. what we are talking about how is_ minister. what we are talking about how is hot _ minister. what we are talking about now is notjust minister. what we are talking about now is not just social policies, but rather _ now is not just social policies, but rather the — now is not just social policies, but rather the very essence of democracy itself, _ rather the very essence of democracy itself, and _ rather the very essence of democracy itself, and that's where the eu has come _ itself, and that's where the eu has come down — itself, and that's where the eu has come down on this. was itself, and that's where the eu has come down on this.— come down on this. was quite interesting — come down on this. was quite interesting hearing _ come down on this. was quite interesting hearing victor, - come down on this. was quite - interesting hearing victor, because he posed the argument on the basis saying, look, it's very reasonable where we have transferred powers of course european law is supreme but where we have not the national law should state supreme. what is the problem? what you're saying is problem? what you're saying is problem is that the government chose the judges and then told the judges know we want a judgement that will effectively say we make the decisions not europe. i suppose that's where brussels is starting to get so alarmed. this that's where brussels is starting to get so alarmed-— get so alarmed. this developing other laws _ get so alarmed. this developing other laws in — get so alarmed. this developing other laws in other _ get so alarmed. this developing other laws in other countries - get so alarmed. this developing | other laws in other countries that are not—

other laws in other countries that are not necessarily confident with eu views — are not necessarily confident with eu views or the eu constitution it distant _ eu views or the eu constitution it distant ways to work that out. as you say— distant ways to work that out. as you say what's happening now if you say what's _ you say what's happening now if you say what's happening now is to have an itiiberat— say what's happening now is to have an illiberal government ordering the judiciary— an illiberal government ordering the judiciary to— an illiberal government ordering the judiciary to fall in line with its views — judiciary to fall in line with its views. that's very different from the democratic states that helped found _ the democratic states that helped found the eu. the tension between whose _ found the eu. the tension between whose laws reigned supreme, is that the nation _ whose laws reigned supreme, is that the nation or is it the supranational institution of the ec j? that— supranational institution of the ec j? that has— supranational institution of the ec j? that has been a fundamental tension — j? that has been a fundamental tension within this block almost from _ tension within this block almost from its — tension within this block almost from its founding time. over the last 60 _ from its founding time. over the last 60 years there's been an informal— last 60 years there's been an informal agreement that indeed ecj rulings— informal agreement that indeed ecj rulings reigned supreme. that they take primacy over national law. this was tong _ take primacy over national law. this was long before poland ever had eu membership as a twinkle in their own eye. membership as a twinkle in their own eye this— membership as a twinkle in their own eye this is— membership as a twinkle in their own eye. this is what it signed up to even _ eye. this is what it signed up to even though it had other exemptions and these _ even though it had other exemptions and these rules that it knew were in ptav _ and these rules that it knew were in ptav the _ and these rules that it knew were in play. the eu also stumbled on its own when — play. the eu also stumbled on its own when it went about it maybe 13,

14 years _ own when it went about it maybe 13, 14 years ago — own when it went about it maybe 13, 14 years ago. they had a chance in the lisbon — 14 years ago. they had a chance in the lisbon treaty to write that in exoticittv — the lisbon treaty to write that in explicitly. the eu law took precedence over national law. and they baulked. so there now fortunately reaping some of the quandary... fortunately reaping some of the quandary- - -_ fortunately reaping some of the nuanda . . , . we will be back next week looking ahead to what is coming on the cob 26 summit on climate change. goodbye. good evening. the weather has thrown a little bit of everything at us this week,

some wet weather, some squally winds, some mild conditions, some chilly conditions. today has been one of the quieter days of the week, with sunshine in some places, but a lot of cloud in others. and that cloud, as you can see from the earlier satellite and radar picture, has been producing some showers. and we will keep a lot of cloud as we head through this evening and tonight. it could turn a bit misty and murky over hills in the west and more generally down towards the south. still some spots of rain and drizzle. where we have clear skies for any length of time, particularly in north east scotland, temperatures will drop away, maybe all the way down to —2 celsius with a touch of frost. but despite a chilly start to saturday for some, the weekend generally speaking will be mild and quite windy, with some rain at times courtesy of this frontal system moving its way quite slowly in from the west. it will be making slow progress. it's running up against this area of high pressure, and that will keep things largely dry across the bulk of england and wales.

a few spots of drizzle in the west, quite a lot of cloud around. the best of any sunshine in the east. southern and eastern parts of scotland will see some sunny spells as well, but for northern ireland and western scotland, slowly but surely this rain will creep its way in. some of that rain will be heavy, accompanied by strong southerly winds. now, those are the average wind speeds. we could see gusts in western scotland of 50 mph or more. but because the winds are coming up from the south, it is going to feel a bit milder, 12—14 degrees. we move through saturday night, our weather front staggering a little further eastwards, rain through northern ireland into western scotland. eventually some of that rain will get down into england and wales overnight and into the first part of sunday. what we will also see on sunday is some even milder air being scooped up from the south. notice the orange colours here on the chart. so, certainly a mild—feeling day on sunday. quite a lot of cloud around and some showers, some of which will be heavy, possibly thundery in the west. some sunny spells as well, but confirmation of another windy day and another pretty mild one. temperatures in parts of north east scotland could get to 15—16 degrees. similar values further south

through northern ireland and parts of england and wales. we look ahead to next week, it stays relatively mild. there will be some outbreaks of rain at times. some of that rain heavy and persistent, particularly up towards the north and the west.

this is bbc news, i'm shaun ley. the headlines at 8pm... scientists advising the government say stricter covid measures should be made ready for "rapid deployment" — but the prime minister insists plan b for england isn't needed yet. we keep all measures under constant review. we will do whatever we have to do to protect the public, but the numbers that we are seeing at the moment are fully in line with what we expected. tributes are being paid to cinematographer, halyna hutchins, who's died after actor alec baldwin fired a prop gun on the set of his latest film. she had such a strong buy, just a sense _ she had such a strong buy, just a sense of— she had such a strong buy, just a sense of commitment to art and the integrity— sense of commitment to art and the integrity of — sense of commitment to art and the integrity of wanting to make cinema. a man with alleged links to the manchester arena bombing has had his british citizenship restored

by the home secretary.