hello and welcome to a bbc news special. we're taking a look at the long—term effects of the coronavirus pandemic on business. and this as the chancellor makes his finishing touches to tomorrow's budget. here is rishi sunak�*s customary pre—budget photo — the chancellor posing with his dog, nova. hopefully we'll find it more engaging than nova. well, over the next half an hour, we'll also look at what is being done to help businesses and the economy recover. joining me in the studio isjosie dent. she is the managing economist at the centre for economics and business research. also with us, lord karan bilimoria, president of the cbi — confederation of british industry — and founder and chairman of cobra beer.

and we also have kate nicholls with us. she is chief executive of uk hospitality. many of uk hospitality. thanks to all of you for joining many thanks to all of you for joining us this evening. lots to get through. let's start with you, kate, if we can and maybe you can give us a sense of what the pandemic has been like for you and your business. well, the hospitality sector pre—pandemic was the third largest industrial sector in the economy. it employed 3.2 million people, a further 2 million in the supply chain, £130 billion worth of turnover which meant it was bigger than automotive, pharmaceuticals and aerospace put together, and during the 18 months of the pandemic, that business almost entirely closed subject to really severe restrictions, operating at a loss. it is now one third of the size it was going into the pandemic and has lost over £100 billion worth of revenue. sadly, 12,000 businesses close, 10% of our restaurants, 20%

of our nightclubs and casual dining city centre restaurants and a 6% of our pubs, so it has had a devastating impact on the sector. verse ten, hardest hit, last out, and are still suffering from lung economic covid —— first aid. find and are still suffering from lung economic covid -- first aid. and to ou lord economic covid -- first aid. and to you lord bilimoria, _ economic covid -- first aid. and to you lord bilimoria, do _ economic covid -- first aid. and to you lord bilimoria, do you - economic covid -- first aid. and to you lord bilimoria, do you agree l you lord bilimoria, do you agree with a lot of the things kate was singer? with a lot of the things kate was sin . er? ,, with a lot of the things kate was sinner? ,, . ,, with a lot of the things kate was sinner? ,, . , , ., singer? she had spelt it out. hospitality — singer? she had spelt it out. hospitality has _ singer? she had spelt it out. hospitality has been - singer? she had spelt it out. hospitality has been one - singer? she had spelt it out. hospitality has been one of. singer? she had spelt it out. i hospitality has been one of the sector— hospitality has been one of the sector is— hospitality has been one of the sector is suffering most and shut for 18_ sector is suffering most and shut for 18 months from the 23rd of march last year— for 18 months from the 23rd of march last year when we started our first logged _ last year when we started our first logged in — last year when we started our first logged in. however, it was predicted in may— logged in. however, it was predicted in may when as president of the cbi i cheered _ in may when as president of the cbi i cheered a — in may when as president of the cbi i cheered a convert before the g7. i cheered a convert before the 67. it was _ i cheered a convert before the 67. it was said — i cheered a convert before the 67. it was said it would recover strongly— it was said it would recover strongly because of the support the government has given the economy, one of— government has given the economy, one of the _ government has given the economy, one of the highest per capita in absolute —

one of the highest per capita in absolute terms, but since may, we have _ absolute terms, but since may, we have had _ absolute terms, but since may, we have had a — absolute terms, but since may, we have had a labour shortages across all sectors, — have had a labour shortages across all sectors, lorry drivers, and it is literally— all sectors, lorry drivers, and it is literally every sector in the ecohorw _ is literally every sector in the economy. we have had the full crisis. — economy. we have had the full crisis. the _ economy. we have had the full crisis, the energy crisis, inflation which _ crisis, the energy crisis, inflation which seems to be increasing day by day -- _ which seems to be increasing day by day -- fuet— which seems to be increasing day by day —— fuel crisis. and we have had tax rises _ day —— fuel crisis. and we have had tax rises which have been announced any previous — tax rises which have been announced any previous budget with corporation tax going _ any previous budget with corporation tax going up from 90% to 25%, income tax going up from 90% to 25%, income tax thresholds are being risen. nationai— tax thresholds are being risen. national insurance 1.25% and the new deviin— national insurance 1.25% and the new devlin tax. _ national insurance 1.25% and the new devlin tax, so this is now the highest — devlin tax, so this is now the highest tax burden that we have had as a country— highest tax burden that we have had as a country in 70 years. and i think— as a country in 70 years. and i think this _ as a country in 70 years. and i think this is _ as a country in 70 years. and i think this is not the time for tax rises~ _ think this is not the time for tax rises~ a — think this is not the time for tax rises. a business has suffered so much _ rises. a business has suffered so much for— rises. a business has suffered so much for 18— rises. a business has suffered so much for 18 months, we have if fragile — much for 18 months, we have if fragile recovery. what the government needs to do no more than ever is— government needs to do no more than ever is incentivise investment, increase — ever is incentivise investment, increase productivity, increase skiiis. — increase productivity, increase skills. and _ increase productivity, increase skills, and have things like the super— skills, and have things like the super deduction, the 130% relief on

taxes _ super deduction, the 130% relief on taxes to— super deduction, the 130% relief on taxes to encourage investments. it should — taxes to encourage investments. it should reduce business rates. the business _ should reduce business rates. the business rates in this country are really— business rates in this country are really hurting the high street. they are four— really hurting the high street. they are four times higher than germany, three _ are four times higher than germany, three times — are four times higher than germany, three times higher than the ec average — three times higher than the ec average was up we need to get them to a sensible level. there is a lot the government can do to encourage growth _ the government can do to encourage growth because that will generate 'obs growth because that will generate jobs and _ growth because that will generate jobs and they will generate taxes and the _ jobs and they will generate taxes and the taxes will help aid any debt — and the taxes will help aid any debt we _ and the taxes will help aid any debt. we have suffered hugely as it economv _ debt. we have suffered hugely as it economy. we can grow and that is what _ economy. we can grow and that is what should focus on josie, the tax rise mav— what should focus on josie, the tax rise may be — what should focus on josie, the tax rise may be one of the challenges for businesses as they emerge from the pandemic. find for businesses as they emerge from the pandemic-— for businesses as they emerge from the andemic. . ., , ., the pandemic. and as we emerge from the pandemic. and as we emerge from the pandemic — the pandemic. and as we emerge from the pandemic. what _ the pandemic. and as we emerge from the pandemic. what other— the pandemic. and as we emerge from the pandemic. what other challenges l the pandemic. what other challenges remain? ., �* ., ., ., ., remain? lord bilimoria covered a lot of them but — remain? lord bilimoria covered a lot of them but we _ remain? lord bilimoria covered a lot of them but we are _ remain? lord bilimoria covered a lot of them but we are facing _ remain? lord bilimoria covered a lot of them but we are facing a - of them but we are facing a difficult _ of them but we are facing a difficult business _ of them but we are facing a i difficult business environment of them but we are facing a - difficult business environment now. ithink— difficult business environment now. i think businesses _ difficult business environment now. i think businesses were _ difficult business environment now. i think businesses were incredibly. i think businesses were incredibly positive _ i think businesses were incredibly positive at— i think businesses were incredibly positive at the _ i think businesses were incredibly positive at the start _ i think businesses were incredibly positive at the start of _ i think businesses were incredibly positive at the start of the - i think businesses were incredibly positive at the start of the year, i positive at the start of the year, we run — positive at the start of the year, we run a — positive at the start of the year, we run a regular— positive at the start of the year, we run a regular small- positive at the start of the year, we run a regular small businessj positive at the start of the year, . we run a regular small business are and although — we run a regular small business are and although it _ we run a regular small business are and although it was _ we run a regular small business are and although it was a _ we run a regular small business are and although it was a very- we run a regular small business are and although it was a very difficult. and although it was a very difficult environment — and although it was a very difficult environment in _ and although it was a very difficult environment in the _ and although it was a very difficult environment in the locked - and although it was a very difficult environment in the locked and - and although it was a very difficult environment in the locked and at. and although it was a very difficult. environment in the locked and at the start of— environment in the locked and at the start of the _ environment in the locked and at the start of the year. _ environment in the locked and at the start of the year, businesses - start of the year, businesses thought— start of the year, businesses thought as _ start of the year, businesses thought as soon _ start of the year, businesses thought as soon as - start of the year, businesses thought as soon as look-

start of the year, businesses thought as soon as look on l thought as soon as look on restrictions— thought as soon as look on restrictions eased, - thought as soon as look on restrictions eased, we - thought as soon as look on i restrictions eased, we would thought as soon as look on - restrictions eased, we would be back up restrictions eased, we would be back up and _ restrictions eased, we would be back up and running. _ restrictions eased, we would be back up and running, but _ restrictions eased, we would be back up and running, but we _ restrictions eased, we would be back up and running, but we are _ restrictions eased, we would be back up and running, but we are facing - restrictions eased, we would be back up and running, but we are facing an| up and running, but we are facing an environment — up and running, but we are facing an environment now— up and running, but we are facing an environment now with _ up and running, but we are facing an environment now with yes, - up and running, but we are facing an environment now with yes, high - environment now with yes, high inflation, — environment now with yes, high inflation, labour— environment now with yes, high inflation, labour shortages, - environment now with yes, high inflation, labour shortages, andj inflation, labour shortages, and producers — inflation, labour shortages, and producers are _ inflation, labour shortages, and producers are releasing - inflation, labour shortages, and producers are releasing high - inflation, labour shortages, and i producers are releasing high prices of imported — producers are releasing high prices of imported goods _ producers are releasing high prices of imported goods so _ producers are releasing high prices of imported goods so they- producers are releasing high prices of imported goods so they are - producers are releasing high prices. of imported goods so they are really struggling — of imported goods so they are really struggling i— of imported goods so they are really struggling ithink— of imported goods so they are really struggling. i think are _ of imported goods so they are really struggling. i think are one _ of imported goods so they are really struggling. i think are one key- struggling. i think are one key thing — struggling. i think are one key thing that— struggling. i think are one key thing that we _ struggling. i think are one key thing that we are _ struggling. i think are one key thing that we are looking - struggling. i think are one key thing that we are looking at i struggling. i think are one key thing that we are looking at inj thing that we are looking at in the coming _ thing that we are looking at in the coming months _ thing that we are looking at in the coming months as _ thing that we are looking at in the coming months as insolvencies. l thing that we are looking at in the i coming months as insolvencies. 0ver coming months as insolvencies. over the tast— coming months as insolvencies. over the tast18 _ coming months as insolvencies. over the last 18 months, _ coming months as insolvencies. over the last 18 months, interestingly, - the last 18 months, interestingly, companv— the last 18 months, interestingly, company insolvencies, _ the last 18 months, interestingly, | company insolvencies, companies the last 18 months, interestingly, i company insolvencies, companies in the process— company insolvencies, companies in the process of— company insolvencies, companies in the process of going _ company insolvencies, companies in the process of going bust, _ company insolvencies, companies in the process of going bust, sadly, . the process of going bust, sadly, have _ the process of going bust, sadly, have ireen— the process of going bust, sadly, have been very— the process of going bust, sadly, have been very low, _ the process of going bust, sadly, have been very low, and - the process of going bust, sadly, have been very low, and that - the process of going bust, sadly, have been very low, and that is. have been very low, and that is because — have been very low, and that is because there _ have been very low, and that is because there has _ have been very low, and that is because there has been - have been very low, and that is because there has been a - have been very low, and that is because there has been a lot. have been very low, and that isj because there has been a lot of government— because there has been a lot of government support _ because there has been a lot of government support for- because there has been a lot of- government support for businesses and as— government support for businesses and as a _ government support for businesses and as a part — government support for businesses and as a part in— government support for businesses and as a part in preventing - government support for businesses and as a part in preventing and - and as a part in preventing and going _ and as a part in preventing and going insolvent _ and as a part in preventing and going insolvent through - and as a part in preventing and going insolvent through the - going insolvent through the corporate _ going insolvent through the corporate insolvency - going insolvent through the corporate insolvency and i going insolvent through the - corporate insolvency and governance act preventing — corporate insolvency and governance act preventing them _ corporate insolvency and governance act preventing them from _ corporate insolvency and governance act preventing them from filing - corporate insolvency and governance act preventing them from filing for. act preventing them from filing for insoivencv — act preventing them from filing for insoivencv and _ act preventing them from filing for insolvency and also _ act preventing them from filing for insolvency and also we _ act preventing them from filing for insolvency and also we have - act preventing them from filing for insolvency and also we have got i act preventing them from filing for. insolvency and also we have got that protection _ insolvency and also we have got that protection from _ insolvency and also we have got that protection from eviction _ insolvency and also we have got that protection from eviction from - insolvency and also we have got that protection from eviction from their. protection from eviction from their iandiords — protection from eviction from their iandiords but— protection from eviction from their landlords. but we _ protection from eviction from their landlords. but we have _ protection from eviction from their landlords. but we have seen- protection from eviction from their landlords. but we have seen that i protection from eviction from their. landlords. but we have seen that act tifted _ landlords. but we have seen that act tifted aireadv— landlords. but we have seen that act lifted already and _ landlords. but we have seen that act lifted already and their _ landlords. but we have seen that act lifted already and their eviction - lifted already and their eviction ban is — lifted already and their eviction ban is lifted _ lifted already and their eviction ban is lifted in _ lifted already and their eviction ban is lifted in march _ lifted already and their eviction ban is lifted in march so - lifted already and their eviction ban is lifted in march so we - lifted already and their eviction . ban is lifted in march so we could then— ban is lifted in march so we could then see — ban is lifted in march so we could then see more _ ban is lifted in march so we could then see more and _ ban is lifted in march so we could

then see more and more - ban is lifted in march so we could i then see more and more companies fiiing _ then see more and more companies fiiing for— then see more and more companies filing for insolvency— then see more and more companies filing for insolvency because - then see more and more companies filing for insolvency because many l filing for insolvency because many small— filing for insolvency because many small businesses, _ filing for insolvency because many small businesses, and _ filing for insolvency because many small businesses, and larger- small businesses, and larger businesses _ small businesses, and larger businesses even, _ small businesses, and larger businesses even, now- small businesses, and larger businesses even, now owe . small businesses, and larger- businesses even, now owe debts to their landlords, _ businesses even, now owe debts to their landlords, to— businesses even, now owe debts to their landlords, to hmrc, - businesses even, now owe debts to their landlords, to hmrc, and - businesses even, now owe debts to their landlords, to hmrc, and of. their landlords, to hmrc, and of course, — their landlords, to hmrc, and of course, to— their landlords, to hmrc, and of course, to the _ their landlords, to hmrc, and of course, to the banks _ their landlords, to hmrc, and of course, to the banks because . their landlords, to hmrc, and ofj course, to the banks because we their landlords, to hmrc, and of- course, to the banks because we have had att— course, to the banks because we have had all of— course, to the banks because we have had all of these — course, to the banks because we have had all of these bounce _ course, to the banks because we have had all of these bounce back - course, to the banks because we have had all of these bounce back loans - had all of these bounce back loans and other— had all of these bounce back loans and other loans _ had all of these bounce back loans and other loans on _ had all of these bounce back loans and other loans on offer— had all of these bounce back loans and other loans on offer to- had all of these bounce back loansl and other loans on offer to support businesses. — and other loans on offer to support businesses, rightly, _ and other loans on offer to support businesses, rightly, 30 _ and other loans on offer to support businesses, rightly, 30 pandemic,| businesses, rightly, 30 pandemic, but so _ businesses, rightly, 30 pandemic, but so many— businesses, rightly, 30 pandemic, but so many businesses _ businesses, rightly, 30 pandemic, but so many businesses are - businesses, rightly, 30 pandemic, but so many businesses are now l businesses, rightly, 30 pandemic,| but so many businesses are now in businesses, rightly, 30 pandemic, . but so many businesses are now in a position— but so many businesses are now in a position where — but so many businesses are now in a position where they _ but so many businesses are now in a position where they all _ but so many businesses are now in a position where they all owe - but so many businesses are now in a position where they all owe their - position where they all owe their state _ position where they all owe their state and — position where they all owe their state and it— position where they all owe their state and it is— position where they all owe their state and it is suddenly- position where they all owe their state and it is suddenly coming i position where they all owe their. state and it is suddenly coming due and all— state and it is suddenly coming due and all their— state and it is suddenly coming due and all their creditors _ state and it is suddenly coming due and all their creditors will - state and it is suddenly coming due and all their creditors will want - state and it is suddenly coming due and all their creditors will want to l and all their creditors will want to be paid _ and all their creditors will want to be paid and — and all their creditors will want to be paid and they— and all their creditors will want to be paid and they will— and all their creditors will want to be paid and they will be - and all their creditors will want tol be paid and they will be concerned if these _ be paid and they will be concerned if these businesses _ be paid and they will be concerned if these businesses go _ be paid and they will be concerned if these businesses go bust - be paid and they will be concerned if these businesses go bust they . if these businesses go bust they will not — if these businesses go bust they will not get _ if these businesses go bust they will not get their— if these businesses go bust they will not get their money- if these businesses go bust they will not get their money back. . if these businesses go bust they. will not get their money back. we are starting — will not get their money back. we are starting to _ will not get their money back. we are starting to see _ will not get their money back. we are starting to see the _ will not get their money back. we are starting to see the impact- will not get their money back. we are starting to see the impact of. are starting to see the impact of the pandemic— are starting to see the impact of the pandemic feed _ are starting to see the impact of the pandemic feed through - are starting to see the impact of the pandemic feed through to i the pandemic feed through to businesses _ the pandemic feed through to businesses as— the pandemic feed through to businesses as the _ the pandemic feed through tol businesses as the government the pandemic feed through to - businesses as the government really pulls businesses as the government really puiis off— businesses as the government really pulls off the — businesses as the government really pulls off the brakes _ businesses as the government really pulls off the brakes and _ businesses as the government really pulls off the brakes and takes - businesses as the government really pulls off the brakes and takes a - pulls off the brakes and takes a step back— pulls off the brakes and takes a step back in _ pulls off the brakes and takes a step back in terms _ pulls off the brakes and takes a step back in terms of— pulls off the brakes and takes a step back in terms of support . step back in terms of support because _ step back in terms of support because now— step back in terms of support because now we _ step back in terms of support because now we do _ step back in terms of support because now we do not - step back in terms of support because now we do not see l because now we do not see restrictions— because now we do not see restrictions and _ because now we do not see restrictions and the - because now we do not see - restrictions and the government can, in theory, _ restrictions and the government can, in theory, putt— restrictions and the government can, in theory, pull back— restrictions and the government can, in theory, pull back support, - restrictions and the government can, in theory, pull back support, but - in theory, pull back support, but that might — in theory, pull back support, but that might mean _ in theory, pull back support, but that might mean businesses - in theory, pull back support, butl that might mean businesses start in theory, pull back support, but - that might mean businesses start to id that might mean businesses start to go bust _ that might mean businesses start to to bust. , , that might mean businesses start to to bust. , w , ., go bust. very quickly, and he mentioned — go bust. very quickly, and he mentioned that _ go bust. very quickly, and he mentioned that they - go bust. very quickly, and he mentioned that they are, - go bust. very quickly, and he mentioned that they are, a l go bust. very quickly, and he| mentioned that they are, a lot go bust. very quickly, and he - mentioned that they are, a lot of talk, especially in the last few days, but the rate of inflation. what impact could that have only businesses? how closely will people

be watching that? trier? businesses? how closely will people be watching that?— be watching that? very closely. we have seen headline _ be watching that? very closely. we have seen headline cpi, _ be watching that? very closely. we have seen headline cpi, consumerl have seen headline cpi, consumer price _ have seen headline cpi, consumer price inflation— have seen headline cpi, consumer price inflation standard _ have seen headline cpi, consumer price inflation standard 3.1%, - have seen headline cpi, consumer price inflation standard 3.1%, but. price inflation standard 3.1%, but actually, — price inflation standard 3.1%, but actually, far— price inflation standard 3.1%, but actually, far more _ price inflation standard 3.1%, but actually, far more interesting - price inflation standard 3.1%, but actually, far more interesting is. price inflation standard 3.1%, but| actually, far more interesting is a producer— actually, far more interesting is a producer price _ actually, far more interesting is a producer price inflation. - actually, far more interesting is a producer price inflation. that - producer price inflation. that stands, — producer price inflation. that stands, in _ producer price inflation. that stands, in terms _ producer price inflation. that stands, in terms of- producer price inflation. that stands, in terms of the - producer price inflation. that stands, in terms of the inputj producer price inflation. that - stands, in terms of the input prices that they— stands, in terms of the input prices that they pay — stands, in terms of the input prices that they pay for. _ stands, in terms of the input prices that they pay for, at _ stands, in terms of the input prices that they pay for, at 11.4%, - stands, in terms of the input prices that they pay for, at 11.4%, which l that they pay for, at 11.4%, which is an— that they pay for, at 11.4%, which is an alt— that they pay for, at 11.4%, which is an all time _ that they pay for, at 11.4%, which is an all time high. _ that they pay for, at 11.4%, which is an all time high. and _ that they pay for, at 11.4%, which is an all time high. and so - is an all time high. and so businesses _ is an all time high. and so businesses are _ is an all time high. and so businesses are clearly- is an all time high. and so businesses are clearly not| is an all time high. and so - businesses are clearly not passing it on to _ businesses are clearly not passing it on to customers _ businesses are clearly not passing it on to customers just _ businesses are clearly not passing it on to customers just yet, - businesses are clearly not passing it on to customers just yet, but i businesses are clearly not passing it on to customers just yet, but atj it on to customers just yet, but at some _ it on to customers just yet, but at some point, — it on to customers just yet, but at some point. they— it on to customers just yet, but at some point, they will— it on to customers just yet, but at some point, they will have - it on to customers just yet, but at some point, they will have two. . some point, they will have two. because — some point, they will have two. because businesses— some point, they will have two. because businesses can't - some point, they will have two. because businesses can't hold i some point, they will have two. . because businesses can't hold out without _ because businesses can't hold out without raising _ because businesses can't hold out without raising their— because businesses can't hold out without raising their prices - because businesses can't hold out without raising their prices for- without raising their prices for that wrong _ without raising their prices for that wrong. and _ without raising their prices for that wrong. and so, _ without raising their prices for that wrong. and so, inflationl without raising their prices fori that wrong. and so, inflation is really— that wrong. and so, inflation is really kev _ that wrong. and so, inflation is really key. and _ that wrong. and so, inflation is really key. and then _ that wrong. and so, inflation is really key. and then we - that wrong. and so, inflation is really key. and then we have . that wrong. and so, inflation is. really key. and then we have the knock-on — really key. and then we have the knock—on effect _ really key. and then we have the knock—on effect in _ really key. and then we have the knock—on effect in monetary- really key. and then we have the i knock—on effect in monetary policy. the bank— knock—on effect in monetary policy. the bank of— knock—on effect in monetary policy. the bank of england _ knock—on effect in monetary policy. the bank of england meets - knock—on effect in monetary policy. the bank of england meets next. knock—on effect in monetary policy. i the bank of england meets next week to set— the bank of england meets next week to set interest — the bank of england meets next week to set interest rates _ the bank of england meets next week to set interest rates and _ the bank of england meets next week to set interest rates and there - the bank of england meets next week to set interest rates and there are - to set interest rates and there are discussions — to set interest rates and there are discussions about— to set interest rates and there are discussions about whether - to set interest rates and there are discussions about whether they. to set interest rates and there are i discussions about whether they will raise them — discussions about whether they will raise them it— discussions about whether they will raise them. it might— discussions about whether they will raise them. it might happen - discussions about whether they will raise them. it might happen next . raise them. it might happen next week, _ raise them. it might happen next week, it — raise them. it might happen next week, it might— raise them. it might happen next week, it might happen _ raise them. it might happen next week, it might happen a - raise them. it might happen next week, it might happen a month. raise them. it might happen next - week, it might happen a month after or early— week, it might happen a month after or early next — week, it might happen a month after or early next year, _ week, it might happen a month after or early next year, but _ week, it might happen a month after or early next year, but at _ week, it might happen a month after or early next year, but at some - or early next year, but at some point _ or early next year, but at some point the — or early next year, but at some point the bank— or early next year, but at some point the bank of _ or early next year, but at some point the bank of england - or early next year, but at some point the bank of england has i point the bank of england has to raise _ point the bank of england has to raise interest _ point the bank of england has to raise interest rates _ point the bank of england has to raise interest rates to _ point the bank of england has to raise interest rates to curb - point the bank of england has to raise interest rates to curb this i raise interest rates to curb this inflation — raise interest rates to curb this inflation. and _ raise interest rates to curb this inflation. and that _ raise interest rates to curb this inflation. and that will- raise interest rates to curb this inflation. and that will have . inflation. and that will have knock-on _ inflation. and that will have knock—on impact— inflation. and that will have i knock—on impact throughout inflation. and that will have - knock—on impact throughout the economv~ — knock-on impact throughout the econom . .,

knock-on impact throughout the econom. ., �* ., ., economy. lord bilimoria, where headin: economy. lord bilimoria, where heading into _ economy. lord bilimoria, where heading into winter, _ economy. lord bilimoria, where heading into winter, there - economy. lord bilimoria, where heading into winter, there is - economy. lord bilimoria, where| heading into winter, there is talk of increased restrictions, how do you feel when hear me mention of those restrictions potentially being ramped up? this those restrictions potentially being ram ed u - ? , , ramped up? this is the time when the government — ramped up? this is the time when the government has _ ramped up? this is the time when the government has really _ ramped up? this is the time when the government has really got _ ramped up? this is the time when the government has really got to - ramped up? this is the time when the government has really got to hold - government has really got to hold the course. yes, debt to gdp has gone _ the course. yes, debt to gdp has gone up — the course. yes, debt to gdp has gone up to— the course. yes, debt to gdp has gone up to 100% of that we have to remember— gone up to 100% of that we have to remember that after the second world war it _ remember that after the second world war it went— remember that after the second world war it went up to 200% and this is the biggest crisis we are faced in the biggest crisis we are faced in the world — the biggest crisis we are faced in the world since the second world war so we _ the world since the second world war so we have _ the world since the second world war so we have got to be able to continue _ so we have got to be able to continue to support businesses and at the _ continue to support businesses and at the huge support that has been given— at the huge support that has been given to _ at the huge support that has been given to date is what has kept unemployment rates at hardly above what they— unemployment rates at hardly above what they were, which we are a very low level— what they were, which we are a very low level at — what they were, which we are a very low level at 3.5%, before the pandemic. the analogy i would use is like a _ pandemic. the analogy i would use is like a tennis — pandemic. the analogy i would use is like a tennis shot, if you play the shot— like a tennis shot, if you play the shot and — like a tennis shot, if you play the shot and hit the ball, but do not follow _ shot and hit the ball, but do not follow through, the ball will go into the — follow through, the ball will go into the net. the government has to follow _ into the net. the government has to follow through. there is the time to -ive follow through. there is the time to give all— follow through. there is the time to give all the — follow through. there is the time to give all the support to hit the bait. — give all the support to hit the bait. now— give all the support to hit the ball, now to give the support to enable — ball, now to give the support to enable businesses to survive through this fragiie _ enable businesses to survive through this fragile and tough environment.

and there _ this fragile and tough environment. and there is the uncertainty of people — and there is the uncertainty of people talking about there being another— people talking about there being another locked social distancing measures, work from home orders. well, _ measures, work from home orders. well, now— measures, work from home orders. well, now is— measures, work from home orders. well, now is the time for the government to be confident because we at _ government to be confident because we at the _ government to be confident because we at the cbi, we had a settlement plan for— we at the cbi, we had a settlement plan for covid that we released two months _ plan for covid that we released two months ago saying one, vaccination programme, continue that at pace. we have a _ programme, continue that at pace. we have a phenomenal programme, get the booster— have a phenomenal programme, get the booster jabs _ have a phenomenal programme, get the boosterjabs to 12 euros now, keep that going — boosterjabs to 12 euros now, keep that going. lateral flow tests are now available to businesses to individuals —— and down to 12—year—olds. tess at oxford university, however, ucl sure they are very— university, however, ucl sure they are very effective —— tests. they have _ are very effective —— tests. they have shown _ are very effective —— tests. they have shown they are very effective. pfizer _ have shown they are very effective. pfizer have — have shown they are very effective. pfizer have now come up with antivirai — pfizer have now come up with antiviral treatments that are tabtets — antiviral treatments that are tablets you can take us on as you test positive are show symptoms, you can take _ test positive are show symptoms, you can take those and they are shown to help prevent hospitalisations and the sad _ help prevent hospitalisations and the sad deaths. so we have very positive — the sad deaths. so we have very positive things to look ahead, we should _ positive things to look ahead, we should not— positive things to look ahead, we

should not be thinking about lockdown is at this stage. we should be imposing all these measures that have spoken about now. once we implement — have spoken about now. once we implement those measures, we should not need _ implement those measures, we should not need locked in. if someone test positive, _ not need locked in. if someone test positive, they isolate, everyone else as — positive, they isolate, everyone else as long as they tess regular can carry— else as long as they tess regular can carry on with work, carry on going _ can carry on with work, carry on going to — can carry on with work, carry on going to school and university is as the test _ going to school and university is as the test regularly.— going to school and university is as the test regularly. what impact made a ramin: the test regularly. what impact made a ramping op — the test regularly. what impact made a ramping up of _ the test regularly. what impact made a ramping up of predictions _ the test regularly. what impact made a ramping up of predictions have - the test regularly. what impact made a ramping up of predictions have an l a ramping up of predictions have an hospitality sector in particular, kate cuesta even just talking about those restrictions has a cooling effect on consumer confidence was up at the day after the health secretary talked about potential plan b, we saw cancellations coming through for christmas parties. christmas bookings, hotel bookings into the new year. it does have a very real impact straightaway. if we so plan be implemented and they work from home regulations being imposed, you will see a drop—off in football, a off in a revenue of between 30 and 40% of many town and city centre

hospitality businesses. let's not forget this is notjust happening at any point in the year, it is happening in our golden quarter, the time and hospitality should be earning 40% of its normal profits between halloween and new year's eve in order to get through the quieter trading periods, january, they become a match. this will be taking me trade at the most valuable time of the year and there is no doubt that many businesses simply would not be able to survive with depleted balance sheets, no cash reserves, and high levels of debt if we went back into restrictions. —— if we went back into restrictions, the economic hit would be severe. thank you for that. you're watching a bbc news special, looking at the long—term effects of the pandemic on business. and one thing is for sure, coronavirus has triggered seismic shifts in how we work, causing many companies to transition from an office—centric culture to more flexible ways of working. in a recent survey for bbc news, 70% of over 1600 people predicted that workers would "never return to offices at the same rate". the majority of workers said they would prefer to work from home

eitherfull—time, orat least some of the time. and as vacancies reach a record high of1.1 million, economists are warning labour market shortages "could stunt" the uk's recovery from the pandemic. do you, josie, 70% predicting workers will never return to offices at the same rate. what are the positives and negatives of hybrid working? positives and negatives of hybrid workin: ? ~ , ., �* positives and negatives of hybrid workinu? ~ , ., �* working? well, why don't i sat with the positives? _ working? well, why don't i sat with the positives? the _ working? well, why don't i sat with the positives? the pandemic- working? well, why don't i sat with the positives? the pandemic has i the positives? the pandemic has resulted — the positives? the pandemic has resulted in— the positives? the pandemic has resulted in yes, _ the positives? the pandemic has resulted in yes, as— the positives? the pandemic has resulted in yes, as you _ the positives? the pandemic has resulted in yes, as you said, - the positives? the pandemic has resulted in yes, as you said, a i resulted in yes, as you said, a seismic— resulted in yes, as you said, a seismic shift— resulted in yes, as you said, a seismic shift in _ resulted in yes, as you said, a seismic shift in the _ resulted in yes, as you said, a seismic shift in the way- resulted in yes, as you said, a seismic shift in the way we - resulted in yes, as you said, a i seismic shift in the way we work. this has— seismic shift in the way we work. this has so— seismic shift in the way we work. this has so many— seismic shift in the way we work. this has so many positive - seismic shift in the way we work. . this has so many positive benefits. when _ this has so many positive benefits. when people — this has so many positive benefits. when people work— this has so many positive benefits. when people work from _ this has so many positive benefits. when people work from home, - this has so many positive benefits. when people work from home, for| when people work from home, for instance. — when people work from home, for instance. they— when people work from home, for instance, they can _ when people work from home, for instance, they can care _ when people work from home, for instance, they can care for - when people work from home, for instance, they can care for loved l instance, they can care for loved ones _ instance, they can care for loved ones who— instance, they can care for loved ones who might _ instance, they can care for loved ones who might mean _ instance, they can care for loved ones who might mean that - instance, they can care for loved ones who might mean that theyl instance, they can care for loved - ones who might mean that they cannot do a futi— ones who might mean that they cannot do a fuiijob_ ones who might mean that they cannot do a fuitjob from — ones who might mean that they cannot do a fulljob from an _ ones who might mean that they cannot do a fulljob from an office, _ ones who might mean that they cannot do a fulljob from an office, but - do a fulljob from an office, but can check— do a fulljob from an office, but can check on— do a fulljob from an office, but can check on them _ do a fulljob from an office, but can check on them every- do a fulljob from an office, but can check on them every now l do a fulljob from an office, but . can check on them every now and again— can check on them every now and again and — can check on them every now and again and conduct _ can check on them every now and again and conduct their _ can check on them every now and again and conduct their work - can check on them every now and | again and conduct their work from home _ again and conduct their work from home this— again and conduct their work from home this the _ again and conduct their work from home. this the pandemic- again and conduct their work from home. this the pandemic has - again and conduct their work from j home. this the pandemic has also caused _ home. this the pandemic has also caused a _ home. this the pandemic has also caused a massive _ home. this the pandemic has also caused a massive acceleration - home. this the pandemic has also caused a massive acceleration in i caused a massive acceleration in technology— caused a massive acceleration in technology usage. _ caused a massive acceleration in technology usage, so _ caused a massive acceleration in technology usage, so we - caused a massive acceleration in technology usage, so we have i technology usage, so we have estimated _ technology usage, so we have estimated it _ technology usage, so we have estimated it has _ technology usage, so we have

estimated it has accelerated l technology usage, so we have . estimated it has accelerated this technological— estimated it has accelerated this technological change _ estimated it has accelerated this technological change by- estimated it has accelerated this technological change by around i estimated it has accelerated this - technological change by around three years and _ technological change by around three years and this — technological change by around three years and this could _ technological change by around three years and this could add _ technological change by around three years and this could add over- technological change by around three years and this could add over 6% - technological change by around three years and this could add over 6% to l years and this could add over 6% to gdp over— years and this could add over 6% to gdp over the — years and this could add over 6% to gdp over the next— years and this could add over 6% to gdp over the next 20 _ years and this could add over 6% to gdp over the next 20 years - years and this could add over 6% to gdp over the next 20 years for - gdp over the next 20 years for the uk. gdp over the next 20 years for the uk so— gdp over the next 20 years for the uk so we — gdp over the next 20 years for the uk so we think— gdp over the next 20 years for the uk. so we think there _ gdp over the next 20 years for the uk. so we think there are - gdp over the next 20 years for the uk. so we think there are so many positives _ uk. so we think there are so many positives of — uk. so we think there are so many positives of their— uk. so we think there are so many positives of their shift _ uk. so we think there are so many positives of their shift working - positives of their shift working from _ positives of their shift working from home _ positives of their shift working from home but, _ positives of their shift working from home but, of— positives of their shift working from home but, of course, - positives of their shift working i from home but, of course, there positives of their shift working - from home but, of course, there are negatives— from home but, of course, there are negatives as — from home but, of course, there are negatives as well. _ from home but, of course, there are negatives as well. we _ from home but, of course, there are negatives as well. we did _ from home but, of course, there are negatives as well. we did an - negatives as well. we did an analysis— negatives as well. we did an analysis of— negatives as well. we did an analysis of five _ negatives as well. we did an analysis of five cities - negatives as well. we did an analysis of five cities in - negatives as well. we did an analysis of five cities in the i negatives as well. we did an l analysis of five cities in the uk and assuming _ analysis of five cities in the uk and assuming that— analysis of five cities in the uk and assuming that long—term i analysis of five cities in the uk- and assuming that long—term workers who can _ and assuming that long—term workers who can work— and assuming that long—term workers who can work from _ and assuming that long—term workers who can work from home _ and assuming that long—term workers who can work from home only - and assuming that long—term workers who can work from home only go - and assuming that long—term workers who can work from home only go into| who can work from home only go into the office _ who can work from home only go into the office two— who can work from home only go into the office two days _ who can work from home only go into the office two days a _ who can work from home only go into the office two days a week, _ who can work from home only go into the office two days a week, that - the office two days a week, that would _ the office two days a week, that would have _ the office two days a week, that would have knock—on _ the office two days a week, that would have knock—on impacts. the office two days a week, that would have knock—on impacts in the office two days a week, that - would have knock—on impacts in terms of spending _ would have knock—on impacts in terms of spending on — would have knock—on impacts in terms of spending on their— would have knock—on impacts in terms of spending on their lunch _ would have knock—on impacts in terms of spending on their lunch break - would have knock—on impacts in terms of spending on their lunch break and l of spending on their lunch break and spending _ of spending on their lunch break and spending after — of spending on their lunch break and spending after work— of spending on their lunch break and spending after work at _ of spending on their lunch break and spending after work at pubs - of spending on their lunch break and spending after work at pubs or- spending after work at pubs or stationary, _ spending after work at pubs or stationary, perhaps, _ spending after work at pubs or stationary, perhaps, near- spending after work at pubs or stationary, perhaps, nearthel stationary, perhaps, near the office — stationary, perhaps, near the office so _ stationary, perhaps, nearthe office. so cross _ stationary, perhaps, nearthe office. so cross the _ stationary, perhaps, nearthe office. so cross the five - stationary, perhaps, nearthe office. so cross the five of- stationary, perhaps, nearthe| office. so cross the five of the largest — office. so cross the five of the largest uk _ office. so cross the five of the largest uk cities, _ office. so cross the five of the largest uk cities, we - office. so cross the five of the. largest uk cities, we estimated office. so cross the five of the - largest uk cities, we estimated that would _ largest uk cities, we estimated that would cost — largest uk cities, we estimated that would cost around _ largest uk cities, we estimated that would cost around £322 _ largest uk cities, we estimated that would cost around £322 million - largest uk cities, we estimated thatl would cost around £322 million every month _ would cost around £322 million every month but _ would cost around £322 million every month but over— would cost around £322 million every month. but over time, _ would cost around £322 million every month. but over time, it _ would cost around £322 million every month. but over time, it is _ would cost around £322 million every month. but over time, it is likely- month. but over time, it is likely that there — month. but over time, it is likely that there will— month. but over time, it is likely that there will be _ month. but over time, it is likely that there will be a _ month. but over time, it is likely that there will be a shift - month. but over time, it is likely that there will be a shift in - month. but over time, it is likely. that there will be a shift in demand for businesses _ that there will be a shift in demand for businesses and _ that there will be a shift in demand for businesses and so _ that there will be a shift in demand for businesses and so businesses l for businesses and so businesses might— for businesses and so businesses might shift— for businesses and so businesses might shift to _ for businesses and so businesses might shift to being _ for businesses and so businesses might shift to being in— for businesses and so businesses might shift to being in more - for businesses and so businessesj might shift to being in more local areas _ might shift to being in more local areas where _ might shift to being in more local areas where people _ might shift to being in more local areas where people are _ might shift to being in more local areas where people are working i

might shift to being in more local- areas where people are working from home _ areas where people are working from home so— areas where people are working from home so that — areas where people are working from home so that 322 _ areas where people are working from home so that 322 might _ areas where people are working from home so that 322 might be _ areas where people are working from home so that 322 might be more - areas where people are working from home so that 322 might be more of. areas where people are working from home so that 322 might be more of a displacement— home so that 322 might be more of a displacement rather— home so that 322 might be more of a displacement rather than— home so that 322 might be more of a displacement rather thanjust - home so that 322 might be more of a displacement rather than just a - displacement rather than just a complete — displacement rather than just a compiete toss _ displacement rather than just a complete loss when _ displacement rather than just a complete loss when the - displacement rather than just a . complete loss when the economy because, — complete loss when the economy because, of— complete loss when the economy because, of course, _ complete loss when the economy because, of course, people - complete loss when the economy because, of course, people are l complete loss when the economy . because, of course, people are still eating. _ because, of course, people are still eating. thev're _ because, of course, people are still eating. thev're just _ because, of course, people are still eating, they're just doing _ because, of course, people are still eating, they're just doing it - because, of course, people are still eating, they're just doing it near. eating, they're just doing it near where _ eating, they're just doing it near where they— eating, they're just doing it near where they live _ eating, they're just doing it near where they live rather— eating, they're just doing it near where they live rather than - eating, they're just doing it near. where they live rather than where they work — where they live rather than where the work. �* , ., , ., they work. ok, let's turn to you because on _ they work. ok, let's turn to you because on that _ they work. ok, let's turn to you because on that city _ they work. ok, let's turn to you because on that city centres - because on that city centres recovery, some business leaders have warned about prolonged hybrid working —— against prolonged hybrid working. i guess you're in that camp. working. i guess you're in that cam . _ ., , , working. i guess you're in that cam. ., , , ., camp. clearly it is taking longer for their major _ camp. clearly it is taking longer for their major towns _ camp. clearly it is taking longer for their major towns and - camp. clearly it is taking longer for their major towns and city i for their major towns and city centres to recover. they are hit by a triple whammy, losing international tours, cultural events and at the office commuters. that is particularly hitting the metropolitan centres hard and you can see the recovery in those areas from the hospitality businesses is far slower and at a far lower level, so football and revenue still at about 50% of normal levels with that it is about 80% in suburban locations —— footfall and revenue. if you don't get that city centric and moving, it has a knock—on effect

for hospitality, retail and it is clearly not the jobs that can be done at home. those workers themselves, will lose out and not everybody can flit to doing hybrid working. we are seeing that when people are back in the city centres, although footfall is down, spend is up, people are privatising going out, team building activities, so we are seeing that growing and people are focusing on coming back to some of the major towns for business meetings and events, but it is very fragile and that is where we had to take care in the next 3—4 months that we do not have anything that upsets that are very fragile recovery. upsets that are very fragile recovery-— upsets that are very fragile recove . , , ., ., recovery. interesting you mention it team-building _ recovery. interesting you mention it team-building because _ recovery. interesting you mention it team-building because lord - team—building because lord bilimoria, there has been a focus during the pandemic and people's mental health and going into work and being with colleagues, physically with them please enter that. , ., , , ., . ., that. over the years, research after research has _ that. over the years, research after research has proven _ that. over the years, research after research has proven that _ that. over the years, research after research has proven that work - that. over the years, research after research has proven that work is . that. over the years, research after| research has proven that work is not 'ust research has proven that work is not just good _ research has proven that work is not just good in— research has proven that work is not just good in terms of earning a living _ just good in terms of earning a living but— just good in terms of earning a living but work is actually good for

people _ living but work is actually good for people generally from a social, mentai, — people generally from a social, mental, wellbeing point of view. and it is young _ mental, wellbeing point of view. and it is young people in particular who have suffered so much in this pandemic, whether it is missing out on school— pandemic, whether it is missing out on school or— pandemic, whether it is missing out on school or university, but also missing — on school or university, but also missing out _ on school or university, but also missing out at work. a young person starting _ missing out at work. a young person starting their first job, missing out at work. a young person starting their firstjob, the mentoring you get, the learning that you get, _ mentoring you get, the learning that you get, listening to people in person. — you get, listening to people in person, there is nothing to beat it. internship— person, there is nothing to beat it. internship programmes that have all been put _ internship programmes that have all been put on hold. this is a time where _ been put on hold. this is a time where we — been put on hold. this is a time where we have to make the most of all of _ where we have to make the most of all of that _ where we have to make the most of all of that because of it will evolve _ all of that because of it will evolve. we adapted at speed any pandemic. i rememberthe chief executive — pandemic. i rememberthe chief executive of microsoft last year in may, _ executive of microsoft last year in may, two — executive of microsoft last year in may, two months into the pandemic, saving _ may, two months into the pandemic, saying that _ may, two months into the pandemic, saying that every word had adapted in a two _ saying that every word had adapted in a two months and started using technology that would usually take two years. that will stay. people will be _ two years. that will stay. people will be returning to work but using that technology. i am visiting —— a visiting _ that technology. i am visiting —— a visiting fellow at the university of oxford _ visiting fellow at the university of oxford and gave an address to an mba class all— oxford and gave an address to an mba class all around the world, there

were _ class all around the world, there were hundreds of students in the lecture _ were hundreds of students in the lecture and 50 were remote. we had a habit ciass _ lecture and 50 were remote. we had a habit class. but to those who could win the _ habit class. but to those who could win the clash and because they wanted — win the clash and because they wanted to be in the clash in —— we had a _ wanted to be in the clash in —— we had a hybrid — wanted to be in the clash in —— we had a hybrid class. we have got to have _ had a hybrid class. we have got to have the _ had a hybrid class. we have got to have the best of both worlds. our cbi meetings, most are hybrid. our annual— cbi meetings, most are hybrid. our annual meeting, which is normally any annual meeting, which is normally anv bav— annual meeting, which is normally any bay conference centre in london is going _ any bay conference centre in london is going to _ any bay conference centre in london is going to be around the country on a hybrid _ is going to be around the country on a hybrid basis so we can use this technology— a hybrid basis so we can use this technology to our advantage, but we have got _ technology to our advantage, but we have got to — technology to our advantage, but we have got to also have people coming back to _ have got to also have people coming back to work for all the other benefits _ back to work for all the other benefits that kate has spoken about and all _ benefits that kate has spoken about and all the other businesses that depend _ and all the other businesses that depend on people being back at work. i depend on people being back at work. i hope _ depend on people being back at work. i hope you're not only at in that big speech!— i hope you're not only at in that big speech! trio! good! .josie, in big speech! no! good! .josie, in many ways _ big speech! no! good! .josie, in many ways hybrid working has opened up many ways hybrid working has opened up sectors of the industry? yes. up sectors of the industry? yes, remote working _ up sectors of the industry? yes, remote working increases - up sectors of the industry? yes, remote working increases access to work _ remote working increases access to work massiveiv _ remote working increases access to work massively. with _ remote working increases access to

work massively. with the _ remote working increases access to work massively. with the potentiall work massively. with the potential 50 million. — work massively. with the potential 50 million, sorry, _ work massively. with the potential 50 million, sorry, £50— work massively. with the potential 50 million, sorry, £50 billion- work massively. with the potential| 50 million, sorry, £50 billion boost to the _ 50 million, sorry, £50 billion boost to the economy— 50 million, sorry, £50 billion boost to the economy is _ 50 million, sorry, £50 billion boost to the economy is more _ 50 million, sorry, £50 billion boost to the economy is more part—timel to the economy is more part—time workers _ to the economy is more part—time workers can— to the economy is more part—time workers can increase _ to the economy is more part—time workers can increase their- to the economy is more part—time workers can increase their work. workers can increase their work through— workers can increase their work through it — workers can increase their work through it being _ workers can increase their work through it being hybrid - workers can increase their work through it being hybrid or- workers can increase their work. through it being hybrid or online. and then — through it being hybrid or online. and then work _ through it being hybrid or online. and then work also _ through it being hybrid or online. and then work also opens - through it being hybrid or online. and then work also opens up - through it being hybrid or online. and then work also opens up the| and then work also opens up the world _ and then work also opens up the world more _ and then work also opens up the world. more people _ and then work also opens up the world. more people can- and then work also opens up the i world. more people can participate in _ world. more people can participate in sav— world. more people can participate in sav if— world. more people can participate in... say if you _ world. more people can participate in... say if you only— world. more people can participate in... say if you only need - world. more people can participate in... say if you only need to - world. more people can participate in... say if you only need to do - in... say if you only need to do when _ in... say if you only need to do when our— in... say if you only need to do when our business _ in... say if you only need to do when our business meeting - in... say if you only need to do| when our business meeting but in... say if you only need to do - when our business meeting but you cannot— when our business meeting but you cannot travel— when our business meeting but you cannot travel across _ when our business meeting but you cannot travel across the _ when our business meeting but you cannot travel across the world - when our business meeting but you cannot travel across the world for, i cannot travel across the world for, now people — cannot travel across the world for, now peopie have _ cannot travel across the world for, now people have massively- cannot travel across the world for, | now people have massively shifted their use _ now people have massively shifted their use of— now people have massively shifted their use of technology _ now people have massively shifted their use of technology to - now people have massively shifted their use of technology to do - now people have massively shifted their use of technology to do more and more — their use of technology to do more and more things— their use of technology to do more and more things online _ their use of technology to do more and more things online and - their use of technology to do more and more things online and that. their use of technology to do more i and more things online and that can make _ and more things online and that can make the _ and more things online and that can make the world _ and more things online and that can make the world so _ and more things online and that can make the world so much _ and more things online and that can make the world so much more - make the world so much more productive _ make the world so much more productive and _ make the world so much more productive and efficient - make the world so much more productive and efficient and i make the world so much morel productive and efficient and the make the world so much more - productive and efficient and the use of technology — productive and efficient and the use of technology through _ productive and efficient and the use of technology through this - productive and efficient and the usei of technology through this pandemic has been _ of technology through this pandemic has been massively— of technology through this pandemic has been massively beneficial. - has been massively beneficial. josie, — has been massively beneficial. josie, thanks— has been massively beneficial. josie, thanks for— has been massively beneficial. josie, thanks for that. - has been massively beneficial. josie, thanks for that. plus - has been massively beneficial. i josie, thanks for that. plus there. —— pause there. 0k, we're heading into the final part of this bbc news special looking at the long—term effects of the pandemic on business. and alongside that recovery is the role companies can play in tackling climate change. this as we gear up to cop26 — the key climate conference in glasgow next week. the uk government's pledged to reduce

emissions sharply by 2035 and to reach nbet zero by 2050, meaning the country will absorb as much carbon dioxide as it emits. —— reached zero. —— reach net zero. ahead of the conference, the prime minister borisjohnson says it's "touch and go" whether the agreements needed to help tackle climate change will be agreed. and a recent study by the think tank carbon tracker found that 70% of companies it looked at did not include climate impact in their financial statements. let's turn to you, kate, it really important area. what changes do you envisage businesses will need to go through as they emerge from the pandemic? i through as they emerge from the andemic? ~ . , through as they emerge from the andemic? ,, .,, , , ,, , pandemic? i think as businesses emerue pandemic? i think as businesses emerge from — pandemic? i think as businesses emerge from the _ pandemic? i think as businesses emerge from the pandemic, - pandemic? i think as businesses| emerge from the pandemic, they pandemic? i think as businesses - emerge from the pandemic, they are very conscious about the impact they have on their communities, their local environment, they are acutely aware of the need to be able to make sure that they are talking the language of their customers and potential employees to make sure they are appealing to a wide range of people. in our sector and in particular, i was quite surprised

that despite the depths of the challenges that hospitality has faced, it has also worked at pace to develop our carbon net zero strategy which was published last week. that is looking at how we can decarbonise our supply chain is looking at how we can decarbonise oursupply chain in is looking at how we can decarbonise our supply chain in particular and thatis our supply chain in particular and that is partly in response to what lord bilimoria was talking about at the beginning of the programme, the cost headwind, inflation pressures that are building into a supply chain and coming through and gives an added impetus to make sure we're being as efficient as we possibly can, particularly in the use of energy. i think that gives an opportunity to review and revisit some of the challenges that we might face in decarbonising the supply chain and gives the impetus to businesses to try and solutions at a quicker pace. 0ne businesses to try and solutions at a quicker pace. one of the things that businesses also learn, particularly hospitality businesses, we are predominantly made up of snes, 80% are —— smes. we have worked really

collaboratively and at that collaboration between businesses to develop toolkits, share best practice, help each other through those challenges that we are seeing on a global level and national level, rigeland hyper on a global level and national level, rigel and hyper local is standing is in stead meet the challenges of carbon net zero —— regional and hyper local. lard regional and hyper local. lord bilimoria. _ regional and hyper local. lord bilimoria, kate _ regional and hyper local. lord bilimoria, kate mentioning those smes, small businesses, but is this really the focus emerging from the pandemic weight all businesses now are aware of and acutely conscious of the challenge of climate change. we have made, the country, the first country— we have made, the country, the first country to— we have made, the country, the first country to legally commit to net a zero x _ country to legally commit to net a zero x 2050. we have cop26 coming up, zero x 2050. we have cop26 coming up. this— zero x 2050. we have cop26 coming up. this is— zero x 2050. we have cop26 coming up. this is a — zero x 2050. we have cop26 coming up, this is a watershed moment for the uk _ up, this is a watershed moment for the uk to — up, this is a watershed moment for the uk. to not on commit, but to show— the uk. to not on commit, but to show how— the uk. to not on commit, but to show how we're going to get there. we have _ show how we're going to get there. we have been leaders in wind power for a long _ we have been leaders in wind power for a long time, in technology and implementation. i chaired the heat commission, we shown one third of

greenhouse — commission, we shown one third of greenhouse gases come from heat... we have _ greenhouse gases come from heat... we have got— greenhouse gases come from heat... we have got to be fit all the homes. and there _ we have got to be fit all the homes. and there is — we have got to be fit all the homes. and there is green finance, we have set up _ and there is green finance, we have set up a _ and there is green finance, we have set up a new— and there is green finance, we have set up a new green infrastructure bank— set up a new green infrastructure bank as— set up a new green infrastructure bank as well. hydrogen power, there is huge _ bank as well. hydrogen power, there is huge potential and i am chancellor of the university of birmingham and really proud to say at c0p2b— birmingham and really proud to say at cop26 we will have the first retrofitted hydrogen powered train up retrofitted hydrogen powered train up and _ retrofitted hydrogen powered train up and running, which i am looking forward _ up and running, which i am looking forward to— up and running, which i am looking forward to riding on there. when it comes— forward to riding on there. when it comes to _ forward to riding on there. when it comes to hydrogen, huge potential for hydrogen. solar costs have come down _ for hydrogen. solar costs have come down by _ for hydrogen. solar costs have come down by about 15% a year since the 1990s~_ down by about 15% a year since the i990s~ all— down by about 15% a year since the 19905. all these cuts are going to come _ 19905. all these cuts are going to come down in future, so the cost of transition _ come down in future, so the cost of transition is — come down in future, so the cost of transition is there but the long run, _ transition is there but the long run. the — transition is there but the long run, the cost benefit 5hould transition is there but the long run, the cost benefit should be of the charts — run, the cost benefit should be of the charts. not only environmentally friendly, _ the charts. not only environmentally friendly, but also more efficient and that— friendly, but also more efficient and that will be a win—win all round — and that will be a win—win all round i_ and that will be a win—win all round. i am very, and that will be a win—win all round. lam very, very and that will be a win—win all round. i am very, very confident and

optimistic _ round. i am very, very confident and optimistic a — round. i am very, very confident and optimistic. a one third of the optimi5tic. a one third of the largest— optimistic. a one third of the largest companies in this country with a _ largest companies in this country with a market cap of £650 million have _ with a market cap of £650 million have already committed to net a zero x 2050 _ have already committed to net a zero x 2050 the — have already committed to net a zero x 2050. the companies make ey, microsoft. — x 2050. the companies make ey, microsoft, in the middle of a pandemic thi5 microsoft, in the middle of a pandemic this year committed to going _ pandemic this year committed to going carbon negative thi5 pandemic this year committed to going carbon negative this year and i've going carbon negative this year and i've heard _ going carbon negative this year and i've heard ey have already done that _ i've heard ey have already done that we — i've heard ey have already done that. we have got to walk the talk. i that. we have got to walk the talk. i hear— that. we have got to walk the talk. i hear you — that. we have got to walk the talk. i hear you are excited by the prospect of cop26, what are you hoping to achieve there? i’m prospect of cop26, what are you hoping to achieve there? i'm hoping cop26 will be _ hoping to achieve there? i'm hoping cop26 will be one _ hoping to achieve there? i'm hoping cop26 will be one raising _ hoping to achieve there? i'm hoping j cop26 will be one raising awareness around _ cop26 will be one raising awareness around the _ cop26 will be one raising awareness around the world of how important this is— around the world of how important this is and — around the world of how important this is and how urgent it is. secondly, _ this is and how urgent it is. secondly, 5howca5ing what is possible _ secondly, 5howca5ing what is possible and what can be done by some _ possible and what can be done by some of— possible and what can be done by some of the examples i have been talking _ some of the examples i have been talking about. thirdly, getting as many— talking about. thirdly, getting as many countries as possible to actually — many countries as possible to actually commit. once you commit and then you _ actually commit. once you commit and then you have the action, and then what _ then you have the action, and then what gets— then you have the action, and then what gets measured get5 then you have the action, and then what gets measured gets done. and then we _ what gets measured gets done. and then we had people on this path sol think we _ then we had people on this path sol think we can — then we had people on this path sol think we can achieve a huge amount. we have _

think we can achieve a huge amount. we have a _ think we can achieve a huge amount. we have a prime minister modi coming over from _ we have a prime minister modi coming over from india, world leaders gathering, so this will be a really, really— gathering, so this will be a really, really important moment and we cannot— really important moment and we cannot fail. thi5 cop26 ha5 really important moment and we cannot fail. thi5 cop26 has got to succeed — cannot fail. thi5 cop26 has got to succeed. and there cannot fail. this cop26 has got to succeed. and there is all this negative _ succeed. and there is all this negative talk. i'm very confident it will be _ negative talk. i'm very confident it will be a _ negative talk. i'm very confident it will be a huge success.— will be a huge success. kate, to ou, is will be a huge success. kate, to you. is the _ will be a huge success. kate, to you, is the hospitality _ will be a huge success. kate, to you, is the hospitality sector- you, is the hospitality sector following the consumer here? for the consumer in this area and at the hospitality sector making sure they are delivering for those consumers? absolutely. i think that has what has driven the hospitality sector to come together at the depths of the crisis of corbynite, even when they were close, to develop the toolkit —— the crisis of covid. to get towards a net to zero and the ambitious and set targets because of our customers are demanding it. many of our workforce are under 30 and they are keen to understand what their employers are doing and what is happening on their night out. at the very business pragmatic level,

when energy costs are going up by 50% to 100%, you want to make sure you're being energy efficient, looking at every area of your profit and loss account to make sure you're eliminating unnecessary costs, and decarbonising can help to do that. for all of those reasons, it has a top piracy for the hospitality sector. with a large number of smes on a small number of changes made by many thousands of businesses will turn into a big result in decarbonising the economy. band turn into a big result in decarbonising the economy. and to ou, decarbonising the economy. and to you. josie. — decarbonising the economy. and to you. josie. this _ decarbonising the economy. and to you, josie, this really _ decarbonising the economy. and to you, josie, this really matters - decarbonising the economy. and to you, josie, this really matters to i you, josie, this really matters to the workforce of tomorrow, almost, doesn't it? , ., , _, ., doesn't it? the people coming into indust , doesn't it? the people coming into industry. into _ doesn't it? the people coming into industry, into business? _ doesn't it? the people coming into i industry, into business? completely. ithink— industry, into business? completely. i think younger— industry, into business? completely. i think younger workers, _ industry, into business? completely. ! think younger workers, if— industry, into business? completely. i think younger workers, if you - industry, into business? completely. i think younger workers, if you want i i think younger workers, if you want to attract— i think younger workers, if you want to attract the — i think younger workers, if you want to attract the top _ i think younger workers, if you want to attract the top talent _ i think younger workers, if you want to attract the top talent and - to attract the top talent and journey— to attract the top talent and journey business, _ to attract the top talent and journey business, you - to attract the top talent and journey business, you havel to attract the top talent and i journey business, you have to to attract the top talent and - journey business, you have to show more _ journey business, you have to show more than — journey business, you have to show more than high _ journey business, you have to show more than high wages _ journey business, you have to show more than high wages and - journey business, you have to show more than high wages and a - journey business, you have to show more than high wages and a decent working _ more than high wages and a decent working hours _ more than high wages and a decent working hours. employees- more than high wages and a decent working hours. employees want - more than high wages and a decent working hours. employees want toi more than high wages and a decent. working hours. employees want to see responsible _ working hours. employees want to see responsible employers— working hours. employees want to see responsible employers who _ working hours. employees want to see responsible employers who it - working hours. employees want to see responsible employers who it about i responsible employers who it about the environment. _ responsible employers who it about the environment. so— responsible employers who it about the environment. so i— responsible employers who it about the environment. so i think- the environment. so i think businesses _ the environment. so i think businesses want _ the environment. so i think businesses want to - the environment. so i think businesses want to reduce i the environment. so i think- businesses want to reduce their emissions — businesses want to reduce their emissions and _ businesses want to reduce their emissions and work _ businesses want to reduce their

emissions and work with - businesses want to reduce their emissions and work with the - emissions and work with the government— emissions and work with the government to _ emissions and work with the government to achieve - emissions and work with the government to achieve its i emissions and work with the - government to achieve its ambitious targets, _ government to achieve its ambitious targets, but— government to achieve its ambitious targets, but i— government to achieve its ambitious targets, but i do— government to achieve its ambitious targets, but i do think— government to achieve its ambitious targets, but i do think the _ targets, but i do think the government— targets, but i do think the government has- targets, but i do think the government has to - targets, but i do think the government has to layout| targets, but i do think the - government has to layout more specific— government has to layout more specific policies _ government has to layout more specific policies and _ government has to layout more specific policies and specific - specific policies and specific subsidies— specific policies and specific subsidies to _ specific policies and specific subsidies to encourage - specific policies and specific - subsidies to encourage businesses to do so _ subsidies to encourage businesses to do so we _ subsidies to encourage businesses to do so we have — subsidies to encourage businesses to do so. we have been _ subsidies to encourage businesses to do so. we have been talking - subsidies to encourage businesses to do so. we have been talking about. do so. we have been talking about the very— do so. we have been talking about the very difficult _ do so. we have been talking about the very difficult business - the very difficult business environment _ the very difficult business environment that- the very difficult businessl environment that currently the very difficult business - environment that currently exists and so _ environment that currently exists and so a — environment that currently exists and so a lot— environment that currently exists and so a lot of— environment that currently exists and so a lot of businesses - environment that currently exists and so a lot of businesses are - and so a lot of businesses are simply— and so a lot of businesses are simply thinking _ and so a lot of businesses are simply thinking about - and so a lot of businesses are simply thinking about how - and so a lot of businesses are i simply thinking about how they and so a lot of businesses are - simply thinking about how they can turn a _ simply thinking about how they can turn a profit — simply thinking about how they can turn a profit tomorrow. _ simply thinking about how they can turn a profit tomorrow. not - simply thinking about how they can turn a profit tomorrow. not how i simply thinking about how they can i turn a profit tomorrow. not how they can reduce _ turn a profit tomorrow. not how they can reduce their— turn a profit tomorrow. not how they can reduce their admissions. - turn a profit tomorrow. not how they can reduce their admissions. so- turn a profit tomorrow. not how they can reduce their admissions. so theyj can reduce their admissions. so they definitely— can reduce their admissions. so they definitely recognise _ can reduce their admissions. so they definitely recognise it _ can reduce their admissions. so they definitely recognise it as _ can reduce their admissions. so they definitely recognise it as a _ definitely recognise it as a long-term _ definitely recognise it as a long—term goal— definitely recognise it as a long—term goal and - definitely recognise it as a long—term goal and if- definitely recognise it as a| long—term goal and if they definitely recognise it as a - long—term goal and if they want to attract _ long—term goal and if they want to attract the — long—term goal and if they want to attract the top _ long—term goal and if they want to attract the top talent, _ long—term goal and if they want to attract the top talent, they- long—term goal and if they want to attract the top talent, they need i long—term goal and if they want to| attract the top talent, they need to focus _ attract the top talent, they need to focus on _ attract the top talent, they need to focus on emissions. _ attract the top talent, they need to focus on emissions. but _ attract the top talent, they need to focus on emissions. but i— attract the top talent, they need to focus on emissions. but i think- attract the top talent, they need to focus on emissions. but i think the | focus on emissions. but i think the government— focus on emissions. but i think the government also— focus on emissions. but i think the government also does _ focus on emissions. but i think the government also does need - focus on emissions. but i think the government also does need to - focus on emissions. but i think the - government also does need to provide more than _ government also does need to provide more than just — government also does need to provide more thanjust targets, _ government also does need to provide more than just targets, but _ government also does need to provide more than just targets, but also - more than just targets, but also specific— more than just targets, but also specific policy _ more than just targets, but also specific policy to _ more than just targets, but also specific policy to help _ more than just targets, but alsol specific policy to help businesses who are, — specific policy to help businesses who are, you _ specific policy to help businesses who are, you know, _ specific policy to help businesses who are, you know, making - specific policy to help businesses who are, you know, making very| specific policy to help businesses - who are, you know, making very tight profits _ who are, you know, making very tight profits any— who are, you know, making very tight profits any difficult _ who are, you know, making very tight profits any difficult environment - who are, you know, making very tight profits any difficult environment to i profits any difficult environment to actually _ profits any difficult environment to actually enact _ profits any difficult environment to actually enact those _ profits any difficult environment to actually enact those changes - profits any difficult environment to actually enact those changes and l profits any difficult environment to i actually enact those changes and are still plays _ actually enact those changes and are still plays other _ actually enact those changes and are still plays other stakeholders - actually enact those changes and are still plays other stakeholders and - still plays other stakeholders and attorney — still plays other stakeholders and attorney profit~ _ still plays other stakeholders and attorney profit. find _ still plays other stakeholders and attorney profit.— attorney profit. and 'ust very cuickl , attorney profit. and 'ust very quickly, a h attorney profit. and 'ust very quickly, a final_ attorney profit. and just very quickly, a finalthought, - attorney profit. and just very | quickly, a finalthought, what attorney profit. and just very - quickly, a final thought, what do you hope comes out of cop26 for a final thought, what do you hope comes out of cop26 for business? l comes out of cop26 for business? i think, as i said, specific advice, good _ think, as i said, specific advice,

good policy _ think, as i said, specific advice, good policy at _ think, as i said, specific advice, good policy. at the _ think, as i said, specific advice, good policy. at the march - think, as i said, specific advice, i good policy. at the march budget think, as i said, specific advice, - good policy. at the march budget in the uk _ good policy. at the march budget in the uk we _ good policy. at the march budget in the uk we saw— good policy. at the march budget in the uk we sawa _ good policy. at the march budget in the uk we saw a super— good policy. at the march budget in the uk we saw a super deduction i good policy. at the march budget in| the uk we saw a super deduction for investment, — the uk we saw a super deduction for investment, but— the uk we saw a super deduction for investment, but we _ the uk we saw a super deduction for investment, but we could _ the uk we saw a super deduction for investment, but we could see - the uk we saw a super deduction for investment, but we could see a - investment, but we could see a similar— investment, but we could see a similar kind _ investment, but we could see a similar kind of— investment, but we could see a similar kind of thing _ investment, but we could see a similar kind of thing but - similar kind of thing but specifically— similar kind of thing but specifically for- similar kind of thing but i specifically for sustainable investment _ specifically for sustainable investment to _ specifically for sustainable investment to really - specifically for sustainable - investment to really encourage businesses _ investment to really encourage businesses to _ investment to really encourage businesses to make _ investment to really encourage businesses to make the - investment to really encourage businesses to make the right . businesses to make the right decisions _ businesses to make the right decisions in _ businesses to make the right decisions in terms _ businesses to make the right decisions in terms of - businesses to make the right decisions in terms of things i businesses to make the right i decisions in terms of things like burning — decisions in terms of things like burning fossil— decisions in terms of things like burning fossil fuels— decisions in terms of things like burning fossil fuels and - decisions in terms of things like burning fossil fuels and the - burning fossil fuels and the vehicles _ burning fossil fuels and the vehicles they— burning fossil fuels and the vehicles they use _ burning fossil fuels and the vehicles they use to - burning fossil fuels and the vehicles they use to reallyi burning fossil fuels and the - vehicles they use to really turn around — vehicles they use to really turn around the _ vehicles they use to really turn around the emissions - vehicles they use to really turn around the emissions in - vehicles they use to really turn around the emissions in the i vehicles they use to really turn. around the emissions in the uk. well, _ around the emissions in the uk. weii, many— around the emissions in the uk. well, many thanks. _ around the emissions in the uk. i well, many thanks. unfortunately around the emissions in the uk. - well, many thanks. unfortunately we have run out of time. we could talk about it all night. many thanks tojosie dent, lord karan bilimoria and kate nicholls. and we'll have full coverage of the chancellor rishi sunak s 2021 autumn budget and spending review from tomorrow morning at 11:15. thanks for watching, bye for now. hello, there. it's going to stay very mild

in the next few days. temperatures today were widely 17 celsius. but we're also going to find some heavy rain in the next few days, particularly across some western areas — the southern uplands, cumbrian fells, northern pennines, and then into west wales. that heavy rain is going to lead to some flooding. we've had a lot of rain across scotland through the afternoon, early evening. that rain band then moves southwards overnight, into northern ireland for a while, then down across the irish sea into the north—west of england. there will still be some fairly brisk south—westerly winds and a lot of cloud tonight. so it's going to be very mild. temperatures may be no lower than 13 or 1a degrees. we've still got that rain around. that will continue in a similar sort of areas during wednesday. it may affect northern ireland for a while, the rain pushing up into the central belt of scotland. towards the north—west, maybe some sunshine but a few sharp showers. south of our rain band, across a good part of england and wales, it'll be dry, it'll be bright, there may be a bit of sunshine coming through. and we could find temperatures perhaps even higher than they were during today.

this is bbc news. i'm christian fraser. another day, another depressing report from the united nations on climate change. we have eight years to halve our greenhouse gas emissions, and commitments made by those gathering in glasgow this week, are a fraction of what is required. it is notjust facebook in the dock — tiktok, snapchat and youtube executives were on capitol hill today to answer uncomfortable questions on the type of content they're steering towards young people. speaking of which, youtube today censored more spurious claims by president's bolsonaro of brazil. the senate will vote this next hour on his abject handling of the covid pandemic. and in a galaxy far far away, astronomers have found what could be a planet, the first ever discovered outside our own milky way.