of that is hard—wired. does that mean basically you could be born with a gene that could either give you ibs or anxiety or both, there's nothing you can do about it? yes, that's absolutely true and that's part of what we've demonstrated. some people who inherit these genetic variants, they may get ibs, other people may get anxiety, and some people will get both of those conditions. they are sort of hard—wired, if you like. ultimately, these findings could lead to new treatments. it gives us a new window on how we think about the management of ibs. a lot of treatments so far have very much focused on the gut and the abdomen and dietary therapies, and those work for some people, but not for everybody. so what our study suggests is that we need to think about more about treatments that affect the interaction between the brain and the gut. and target some of those nervous processes, the neural processes, and that we may well see some benefit there. in your experience, did you feel you were taken seriously when you went to people with ibs? no, i saw a couple of gps, and i was told that it was just ibs and i was a bit... ..fobbed off.

millions have ibs and it's thought many more remain undiagnosed. laura hopes this research can begin to change that. i think a lot of people are really ashamed to speak about it. and it's really difficult for them. it's something that impacts them on a daily basis and quite often for years, and theyjust, they would rather not bring attention to it, i think. the headlines — former uk prime minister sirjohn major accuses borisjohnson�*s government of acting in a "shameful" manner over the owen paterson row. tens of thousands of people take part in a march through glasgow, demanding new steps to tackle global warming, one of more than 100 climate protests taking place across the uk. at least eight people have died and dozens are hurt — after a crowd surge on the opening night of a music festival in houston, texas.

now on bbc news, it's time for the media show. hello. there have been some nervy crossed fingers in the media world after a long 18 months, we finally found out who is listening to what on the radio. what did we learn from the first audience data the pandemic began? with many of working from home, have travel time favourites taken a hit and how has broadcast radio done against the giants of silicon valley with their wealth podcasts? let me introduce you to today's guests. chief content officer atjack media. for audiences that don't know, what is jack media? jack media group is one of the few

remaining completely independent radio groups in the uk and we operate six radio stations. three national radio stations unionjack, unionjack dance and unionjack rock. most of them launched during the pandemic. and three stations operating the oxfordshire area. jack fm which is the first jack station in the uk and a format which originally started in north america and jack hits and jack chill. those are the six services that we operate at the beginning of the pandemic and there were only for another is six. you have done well and expanded and we'll come to chat with you a bit later on about that and also joining us today is matt, creative director at boulder media. you advise audio companies and other strategies. has this last week been a bit like a level results? absolutely. it's always like that when new figures come in. everyone wants tojudge themselves against their peers as well as seeing how they get on.

we haven't had any data since the audience data for 18 months, because of the way it is collected and the pandemic got in the way of that. a lot of stations, especially some new lunches that were definitely keen to work out of anybody was out there. do you feel you have to review these programmes with the biggest audience? absolutely not, actually. it's a bit like there are some - programmes that are absolutely the biggest podcast in the world isjoe rogan i feel absolutely no compunction to review that at all. i'm much more interested _ in new and interesting and sometimes i go back to very— long—established radio shows to see how they're doing, perhaps they have a presenter.

and especially with long—standing radio programmes, they kind of tick along and if you go back— to review them every week, | everyone would just be like, what's the point of that, really? ashley is the senior reporter at this and hot pod and there is no official data for the podcast, how do you know what it's doing well and what is not than? oh my gosh, on a show by show level, it is difficult. put this is the case for people who aren't just journalists, the case for advertisers, brands, you're going on the trust system a little bit. i don't want to bore everyone with the technical things, but there are ways to do it on the technical side. but for us third parties, it's pretty hard. we're kind of relying on trust and serving data as far as industry wise. starting with the radio results, creative director boulder media, what are the radars? what they are is a quarterly snapshot of radio stations who is listening, what demographics,

where people are listening and what they're listening on. older devices, modern devices or the internet. and it gives figures for every 15 minutes of every station in the uk. it is actually one of the biggest surveys in europe. they speak to around 20,000 to 25,000 people every quarter. and ask what they listen to. people keep a diary and that can be on their phone, the computer, or if they really want to, they can write it in a book and they're given a week to fill that and that all goes into the pot and is measured that way. this time around, they've added somed electronic measurements and a few thousand people have got a special app on their phone that listens to audio and listening to the same audio that the humans that have that phone in their pocket also are listening to. and so, they blend some of the data together to get a representation of what people are listening to across the country. as you just said, we haven't had any

data for 18 months and that's been because of the pandemic and now that they've changed methodology, is a really fair to compare these figures to pre—pandemic figures? about 80% of the information still comes from the regular methodology. it's always existed. i've had a deep dive into the data and what i would expect has come through and teams are pretty good at the comparison to what happened previously. can you give a sense from how these stats are to you as a business because presumably, it's not just about basking in the glow of doing very well? as a commercial radio station, by the advertising that we can| carry, and what we can generate and small media operators- l by yourselves, it's also useful l and very powerful to demonstrate

the incremental audience that we can add. - and there are people who only listen to our services - and if you want them, - you need to come to a stations and share very little listening - with some of the big national radio stations and some of the other local radio stations. _ it's really the lifeblood of commercial radio. l and it's very much - the be all and end all. there's a lot to unpack in the data. who were the big winners and losers? miranda sawyer, the pandemic saw a big shift in home working, lots of people very much nervous about how that impacted breakfast radio, were they right to worry? the bbc moved shows,

so they were very aware of people working from home and so breakfast shows that started earlier were shifted later and in order to kind of work with them because no one was commuting, i think they said i read the analysis and also, there is what used to happen is we had a big peak at breakfast and tea time and that is to do with driving and commuting and because people are working from home, the still pretty much working from home and that is kind of evened out with a slight, instead of saying this, it's not working a radio. i was about to say, i can see your hands, but... now it's kind of a small hill rather than a suspension bridge and that is because switching on what they're listening to, radio or podcast and is letting that ride while they're going about their day. what about daytime listening? because people stuck

at home in the last year, are they craving the company of the radio? everyone was incredibly worried about podcasts but radio did really well during the pandemic because people were stuck at home and the one thing that radio is really good at is the community. it was interesting being an audio reviewer at the time because all the other art forms dropped off. and so suddenly, every time we reviewed anything, it was on the front page of the observer which is unusual for me. and what people wanted was a companionship and i do think that radio is really excellent at that. there's a lot of podcasts that can do that but didn't do that throughout the day that the way a radio station can. it's still the most intimate form of communication. and also, if you have a favourite station, they'lljust switch it on and they are happy to listen to the vibe that station throughout the whole day.

dick stone, do you recognise these listening habits? yeah, i think one of the things that is true is because of the timeframe, a lot of the methodology in this and radio measurement couldn't take place during the pandemic and so, these results don't really reflect what happened during lockdown, for example, and for that, we might turn to our streaming stats. those are factual numbers we could see how many devices are connected and how many people are listening in that shot up dramatically during the lockdown period and undoubtedly, there was a platform shift and people not sitting in the car in the morning and listening to the radio in the car and listening on other platforms, smart speakers, etc. there was a bit of that

going on but i think also, the pandemic and working from home rather than being in an office environment rather than a radio station was chosen for you, you can choose your own radio station and maybe explore some radio stations that you might not have listened to before. so, i think there was a lot of that going on and absolutely agree with miranda. the thing that radio delivers more than anything is the ability to be topical, to be insightful with the day's events but also, it is that friend in the room but from a musical perspective, it is the curation of the output rather than what i'm listening to is driven some algorithm. but about podcasts perspective, the likes of spotify, amazon, audible, did they see their broadcasts stats go up during the pandemic? yes, in terms of research and study, they went up every single years they did see growth in the us.

we are seeing a tonne of investments and also on the radio side of things there are acts trying to disrupt radio, if you're trying to capture that same listening experience, i am saying they're not doing well but they are trying. but there's a lot of investment and we're seeing that pay off, in the sense that more people are discovering podcasts in the pandemic, they launched times radio, and so how did they do? over 630,000 listeners a week and that is perhaps small fry compared to radio for with over 2 million listeners and they've done very well for a long time. and they weren't really sure what they'd get.

they were very hopeful to get over half a million that was their aim and that's with they told their advertisers and so, i think they are pleased with their first book. and it also shows a lot of opportunity for growth still. quite often, it is partly about confidence. confidence from your own team and also confidence in advertisers, people and organisations who can suddenly look at your information and say that's a station that i want to back. can i say really quickly that i know of a commercial group of stations that when the radio station comes on, and prepend think they would gather everybody and a large environment and tell people about this. not jack, i should say. it definitely matters to commercial stations what they get. it's the lifeblood in the be—all and end—all, as dick said. miranda, but you work for the observer but what have

you made of times radio? it's clearly done pretty well in terms of listeners but in terms of identity, it's got really strong presenters which is what you need. presenters for the audience and also because the times, is obviously a great newspaper, it can promote across the radio but it can pick up little, little things in an interview that perhaps they happened in an afternoon he can then focus on that the next day. in an afternoon you can then splash on that the next day. they did that and is that classic thing of a radio presenter getting a quote that was not news. it was already up there but then the times can treat it as news because it came out on the radio. the combination of the two works really well. they have some great presenters on there. news uk have launched a tv station, talk tv, but how has talk radio performed?

talk radio was up based on its figures previously. it probably maybe didn't see the growth that they perhaps hoped for. the interesting question about more right wing type media operations, we seen the others, all of those make it would be ceasing real disinterest in the past to have which of being a bit right wing. they are ofcom regulated so they'd say they are impartial. they would, and if you listen to it, you can make your own mind up. i'm glad that there are radio stations catering to different audiences in all aspects. but also maybe does show that people do want something that isn't so fixed in its view and also what it shows that it's hard to establish a new brand

when there's a lot of and from others and to cut through audiences who are incredibly passionate about the radio stations they listen to and that can be a challenge for any new entrant and i'm sure that there be looking at the numbers and thinking which they do next. what will be interesting is with talk tv, a decent chunk of talk radio. they'll be able to visualise their radio at the moment better anyway and it looks good, it looks kind of tv like and maybe they'll find an audience in that place. a lot of radio growth has come from multi—platform success and visualising and spin—off services and investing in web content and social media. rather than just what comes out of the speaker, what comes through the screens becomes more and more important.

ashley, i gatherfrom the new york times, they're ratcheting up their own audio offering. it was just recently announced - that the new york times is working on an audio—only app so kind . of like their own podcast player where presumably they're - going to distribute their shows and may be expended with exclusives . and may be, really trying to bring . people into their ecosystem rather than control over to spotify, - apple, and all the other players. if we just go back to you and the people who radio do seem to be losing based on the radar data are younger listeners. why are they switching off in such huge numbers? historically, 15 to 2a, the younger demographic, they reduce listening to radio so how many people listen to it. but it's about 10% over the five years which actually does better

than facebook, which ahs lost 17% of the young audiences over the past two or three years. i think it's easy to jump to conclusions, but when you really dive into the data apps, their reach is strong but it has dropped but the key for the sector is the amount of radio listening that is dropped significantly from the audiences. it's dropped a0%. so, teenagers are radio's future listeners and so if the industry wants to regain them, they probably need to think more about how they reach them with what they do already creating services particularly for them, and what we see is capital radio at the youth and of the market. 15— and sa—year—olds live quite a different lifestyle and i think radio somewhat ignores teenagers and reflecting their world at the same time, this quite a lot

of interesting media for that group and tiktok is popular for that audience and their spending 40, 50 minutes a day on tiktok because it speaks to them. it's people like them performing or creating content that they want to consume. so, the challenge for all media is to work out what that audience wants and how do they create content that they like. radio doesn't have a god—given right to every demographic consume it just because it's happened historically, and now it's got to work hard to re—engage with those audiences. these are big questions that would keep you up if you're jack radio, is this something that you worry about? yes, i think the interesting thing that matt was saying there in the question that goes through my mind is cause and effect, which could be going on there as well. undoubtedly, teenagers and the usage of radio has been depressed, but equally, a lot of

programming that is aimed towards teenagers is very short attention span stuff and instant gratification and yet we know that demographic sample lots of podcasts and podcasting more listening, more attention span. not taking over here but let's interview you. do you think there's an element of, if you build it, they will come? you need to have something for them which they necessarily will do in the radio sector. and they been very lucky in it hasn't had to spend lots of money putting friends and spent on computer consume them because you have the radio dial that people

stumble across in their cars and so the radio sector. capital, capitalspends a lot of money on it. we have a clip of jack radio that i would like to play. leaving work? standup, pat your pockets, grab your keys and say "right." that way, everyone knows your intentions to leave the office. follow these rules you are under way to a distinctly british way of life. this is union jack. hear more home—grown comedy at unionjack. that was a tiny clip of unionjack radio, and i'm talking about capturing the teenage market. with jack, you don't have djs for much of the day, and it's just music. but if i wanted music,

i could just find it myself on a streaming platform, so why would i go to jack radio? you could say the same for many radio stations from time immemorial, you could say if i wanted some music i could play it myself. what we do with unionjack, union jack dance and union jack rock, specific genres, we focus on the best of british music, unionjack is both pop and also rock, but solely british artists and important part of what we do is also the comedy. so, there was an attempt at comedy that you just heard there. we have writers that will write our liners and topical liners every day and we have comedians that work with us

like josh berry whose podcast is up for a comedy award. and we work with numerous comedy clubs around the country, we run union jack comedy club in order to promote stand—up comedy just as everything in coming back from the pandemic. the reason for that is jack has always been a disruptive type of brand. the genesis of the jack brand innorth america was in a world where there is very formulaic, formatted radio, the way to stand out against that is to do something different and that is what jack is all about. i just want to bring ashley into the report here because the irony is that the streaming platforms have been incredibly disruptive in one sense of traditional radio but spotify for example is now pushing into speech content. they're pushing this type of content but they also required _

an app to an app called . betty labs and rebranded it as green room. and they are now launching a product designed to go. in the car and give spotify- ownership of the car to take it away from radio time. and now the big tech companies are pushing into audio, - but they're also specifically focusing on how they- can take over some of the time of radio. why do spotify want to be in podcasts? spotify wants to get into podcasts because every time you listen - to music on spotify, they actually have to pay the people, - but they cannot put ads in it. so they're playing forl you to listen to music. if you pay for spotify i and listen to a podcast, they are actually double dipping on revenues so they're -

making money off of you, but they also put ads - in their podcasts, if you're listening to a spotify- show, they're making money off ads and you're also paying them as a subscriber. | but it is definitely. an investment point. talking a bit about podcasts, they've been this incredibly egalitarian format. cheap, easy to use, not big marketing operation costs, and anyone can make a hit podcasts. but the problem is getting them heard. how can someone in their bedroom compute the huge marketing budget of big companies that can promote the content all over the place? over the last two or three years, it's really changed. we have just been people talking about spotify and apple and all these players, google, what they really want to do is just take over your ears. spotify, obviously it does in terms

of money but it doesn't matter if you're listening to music or a podcast that is just taking over your earphones. if it is the person who has had a great idea for a podcast, the main thing that is really difficult is getting the podcast heard because there still isn't quite, not yet, although these big companies are really pushing, there isn't a real natural platform for everyone to go to. if you want to listen to the radio, if ever radio, you can always flip the dial orjust it's the same thing. it's still, the platforming of the smaller podcasts is still really, really difficult for them. especially with big players like literally president obama and bruce springsteen coming in. to me, it's very hard for smaller podcasts to be heard and i think it's part of myjob to elevate some of these tiny podcasts because for so long, there are so many great smaller podcasts that were made and they still exist but not everyone will get to find out about them, and that's myjob, really.

how do you find them? my dms are open on twitter. i'm quite approachable. i listen to people who have good tastes and i scour around and sometimes ijust asked people on twitter, i'm bored of my own tastes, what do you like? social media is important in this way. you'll have to let us know who comes by your way after this. but thank you, that's all we've got time for. thanks to all my guests. the media show will be back same time next week. but for now, thank you for watching and goodbye.

hello there. the strong winds that we've got at the moment across northern scotland are set to get even stronger overnight. the windy weather all down to this low pressure, the squeeze in the isobars affecting northern scotland, that's where we'll have the windiest weather conditions overnight and into tomorrow morning. overnight, those winds are likely to pick up to reach gusts of 60, 70 mph, strong enough to bring some localised disruption, rain at times, too. there'll be a few showers across western areas where it stays quite breezy, a frost—free night for all of us. tomorrow morning, we will have those strong winds across northern scotland to start the day, gusts running into the 60—70 mph kind of range, but, through the morning, the strongest winds will slowly ease away, there will be rain on and off, though, for much of the day here. further west and southwards, we have the risk of a few showers for northern parts of northern ireland, north—west england and north wales but, otherwise, a fair amount of dry weather. quite wet for wales in the south—west. the best of the sunshine, eastern england and said he scotland. that's your weather.

this is bbc news. i'm lukwesa burak. the headlines at five. former uk prime minister, sirjohn major, accuses borisjohnson�*s government of acting in a "shameful" manner — over the owen paterson row. i think the way the government handled that was shameful and wrong and unworthy of this or indeed any government. tens of thousands of people march through glasgow — demanding new steps to tackle global warming — one of more than 100 climate protests taking place across the uk. i'm ben boulos live at the willington wetlands nature reserve in derbyshire where we are finding out how natural sites like this are helping to tackle the climate crisis.