tv The Media Show BBC News December 12, 2021 3:30pm-4:01pm GMT
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days before an expected backbench rebellion, prime minister borisjohnson faces fresh questions about christmas gatherings at downing street a year ago after a photo emerges of him taking part in a quiz. g7 foreign ministers warn russia it will face "massive consequences" if it were to invade ukraine. emergency teams search for survivors in six us states, after more than 80 people die in the largest outbreak of tornadoes in us history. and there has been a dramatic finish in the battle for the chequered flag - i in the battle for the chequered flag — i max verstappen has taken the formula 1 title. it was a nail—biting race that came down to the final lap.
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more on all the stories coming up at four, of course. now on bbc news, it's time for the media show. and a warning that this programme contains flash photography. hello, i'm roz atkins. welcome to this week's edition of the media show. we are going to talk about two enormous scoops and one resignation. it was it was pippa crerar from the daily mirror who first reported on a christmas party in downing street last week. and then we had paul brand from itv news putting out a video he obtained from a practice press briefing inside number 10 last december in which we saw downing street staff laughing, joking about a party at number 10 during lockdown. the issue has been everywhere in the media, it dominated prime minister's questions as well. and we're going to get into exactly how those
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scoops happened with help of pippa and with paul. the first of all, the prime minister's adviser allegra stratton has resigned, she was one of those people in the video, and this is what she said about that resignation. my remarks seemed to make light of the rules, rules that people were doing everything to obey. that was never my intention. i will regret those remarks for the rest of my days and i offer my profound apologies to all of you at home for them. there's allegra stratton explaining her resignation. we also want to look at this story and what it tells us about the broader relationship between government and the press lobby. to help us do that we have katie perrier, director of communications for teresa may when she was prime minister. michael, political commentator for mail plus, and kitty donaldson, the political editor for bloomberg news.
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let's start with pippa from the mirror. it was your story which started all of this. when did you first hear that there had been a christmas party in downing street? well, i actually first heard rumours way back injanuary but they were just that. and i wasn't able to substantiate, i tried my best but didn't manage to get there. and about a month ago i got handed what i would describe as a metaphorical brown paper envelope which contained enough evidence in it for me to start asking questions again. so i then spent several weeks speaking to sources about whether a party had taken place and then once i'd established that it had, speaking to them about who is at it, what was done at the party, secret santa and the festive games and drinks and nibbles and so on. and then we were just really waiting for a moment that would be the right time to publish. so you come back to the story, you start having lots of conversations building on what you first heard about in january.
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can you pinpoint when you first thought, "my goodness, this is a huge story?". well, last tuesday i was sitting in the number 9 briefing room, the same room in fact that the video that paul and itv showed of allegra stratton was filmed in. of allegra stratton was filmed in, and listening to the prime minister's official spokesman at the normal lobby briefing. that morning on the radio drjenny harris, the uk health security agency chief had suggested that people might want to be a bit careful about how they socialise at christmas and cut back on that in the coming weeks because of the emergence of omicron variant. and with that in the back of our minds we were all asking questions of the pm's spokesman about whether we should be having christmas parties, whether it was wise to follow her advice and what the official guidance was. and he made quite clear that the official guidance at that time was not to cut back on christmas parties, these things could ahead.
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he was really quite clear about that. some thought that was a bit of a slap down, in fact, ofjenny harris. i remember sitting there thinking "my goodness, people are talking about christmas parties again, we have the uncertainties of what happens to the next few weeks with omicron coming up, this is going to be on people's minds again, now is the moment to do this story." so you decided to run the story on tuesday of last week. but were you ready to go with it quite a lot earlier? i suppose i could pull that together quickly. none of this was actually written as i sat there in the number 10 briefing. i had all the information i needed but i needed to sit at my keyboard and bash it all down. i did that very quickly in the day and lawyers wanted to have a look and the people who put the paper together, the online team they were discussing. it's a bit of an operation. and you say that your editors quite understandably trust you because of your track record. but when you go to them and say,
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"i've got this source," how many sources did they want from you? is there a particular number you have to clear? i think again it depends on the story. i have a personal rule that if you are writing a big story like this that you can'tjust do it on the basis of one source unless you have uncontroversial evidence or they are somebody that you trust absolutely implicitly. but i've never done a big story like this based onjust one source, i've always preferred multiple sources. not least because in establishing the facts i think it's quite important to be able to want to get more information from one person which corroborates something from someone else and you build up a picture. the more the better always. how many were there on this particular story? i have several sources on this one. so that's your experience. we will come back to it. paul, let's bring you in. when did you hear about this video? we heard about this video sometime ago. it's actually really
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interesting listening to pippa explained her experience because i had a similar experience, we were aware of this video some time ago. actually, sometimes it takes the work of one journalist to help anotherjournalist. and we had some really important considerations when were looking at this video. it was filmed, ultimately, in a private setting, so there's ultimately a high bar for publishing that and the needs of public interest. and on the first look at the video and before the context of the past few weeks, that bar, we didn't feel it was met. but when pippa published her story and the denials began coming out of downing street, the public interest transformed. because we were able to demonstrate that perhaps what downing street were telling us wasn't quite in line with the way they were talking behind the scenes around the time of the parties alleged to have taken place. hold on, i want to make sure i've understood this. you heard about the video. does that mean somebody had actually told you, "i've got a video" or maybe showed you the video and said were not to give you a copy of it yet
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or you just heard rumours around westminister that a video might exist and saw it yet or you just heard rumours around westminister that a video might exist and someone might have it? we were working on the story for several weeks. so we were aware of the video. and we were working through the legals and we have a fantastic lawyer who was working with us in great detail on all of that. like i say, things changed when the buzz story was published. ——when pippa's story was published. before we talk further let's hear some of this video. do they condone having christmas... what's the answer? i don't know. is cheese and wine all right? it was a business meeting. this is recorded. this fictional party was a business meeting. and it was not socially distance. so this is a video from last decemberjust before christmas. this isn't an actual briefing, this is a practice. yes, allegra stratton had been planning to host
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these televised... the first time televised briefing it happened in the uk, the white house briefing had already happened in america for the idea would that she would come and present what is actually a regular lobby briefing that takes place but it would be on camera for the first time. what she was doing was asking colleagues to help her to rehearse. there were press officers and special advisers in the room that were throwing her the kind of questions journalists would ask her potentially if she was doing it for real on that day. and she was rehearsing her answers. sometimes formally, sometimes less formally, which is actually what you see in the clip that you just played there. we were looking at the video and of course the impact that it's had. we noticed some questions coming up
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again and again about it. if you don't mind, i'd like to ask you to them, did itv pay for the video? no, we did not pay for the video. and why did you choose to blur some faces in it but not everyone�*s? again, that comes back to public interest. obviously the repercussions for those identified can be quite severe as we've seen with allegra stratton and her resignation today. we felt we only want to identify those people who had said something that was in the public interest. in the room who were participants but perhaps not particularly active participant in the rehearsal that day or they had made interventions that we didn't feel that that test of being in the public interest. and you tweeted out early evening, and of course thousands and thousands of us saw it. one thing, there was initially a short clip and that i went back on twitter and everyone�*s going, "hold on, there's more." tell us about the decision—making to releasing the shorter version before the longer. there is an interesting dilemma for broadcasters and newspapers these days which is how much do you reveal your hand on social media alone? ultimately, as a news
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organisation you like people to consume your content through your own platform. itv has a website and an app and ideally what we would like people to do is go in and read the full story, the full piece ofjournalism has taken a lot of time and effort for the what we decided to do was to release a short clip which gave a flavour of the story so they could understand what they would be going through to read more about. and then the full video, the full context of the article was there on the website to be read in full. and the final question we see being asked a lot is whether this was filmed off a screen or whether it's actually the original video. that's something i can't get into with you, ross. ——roz. as i was saying earlier, protection of our sources is of the utmost important to us. and that means notjust protecting the source's identity but protecting how material comes into our hands. well, of course you know paul, and everyone listening that at prime minister's questions, this was the dominant issue.
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and borisjohnson turned to the video that paul had obtained. i apologise unreservedly for the offence that it is caused around the country and i apologise for the impression that it gives. but i repeat, mr speaker that, i've been repeatedly assured since these allegations emerged that there was no party... and that no covid rules were broken and that is what i have been repeatedly assured. and pippa, as you listen to that and you listen to the prime minister sayingm essentially, the description of the event that you reported on is wrong, how does it feel? well, it's no different from what they've been saying every day this week, frankly. i guess it comes down to a couple of things, what your interpretation of a party is. in my mind, a0 to 50 people crammed cheek—to—jowl into a medium—sized room drinking,
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playing party games until past midnight, even if it is in a work environment is a party. secondly, the legalities of it. there are only three areas in which the government could point to to justify its claim that this government gathering or any gathering was within the rules. whether it was a permitted event, but there would been no mingling allowed between households, including the second is described as a reasonable excuse of a gathering at a work environment. i don't think anybody would regard a christmas party as a reasonable work environment. thirdly, this disputed claim as to whether this sort of event was allowed, permitted because covid regulations don't apply on government departments. that's a very tricky one for the government. if it's true, and i don't know whether it is, you'll have to ask legal minds on that, then it
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would literally be one set of rules for government and one set of rules for everyone else. which i think would be an incredibly bad look for them. pippa, paul stay with us working to bring in other guess. this is a story that pippa is very closely connected to. lots of people been following the daily christmas party story making, comparisons with the barnett castle story involving dominic cummings. let's bring in bloomberg news, in—house communication and former director of communications to theresa may as prime minister katie, i wonder how you assess the government has handled the last nine or ten days. another disaster and one following another. - i feel that borisjohnson actually made things -
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at prime minister's questions today not better. _ i never like to see an adviser go and cry on doorsteps _ because actually, the person that went home early and ended up. taking the rap for it. i don't think that's fair either. he says he's sorry for the event of a star for the video _ and the impression it gives - but there's no story for the party. ido i do not think the public are following _ i do not think the public are following for— i do not think the public are following for that, - i do not think the public are following for that, nor- i do not think the public are following for that, nor the i following for that, nor the journalists _ following for that, nor the journalists either. - but he has a track record of not saying sorry and he is the prime minister and was mayor of london, something you were involved in. so you'll know that has been a successful political tactic for him. thing is with boris johnson - is people give borisjohnson leeway in the way they never give i any other politician leeway. he doesn't act like something he's not, is not saying, - it is what it is with the they seem to buy that and they _ seem to like it. you'll see the conservatives won again only a week or so ago. - it seems to work for him. the problem is is that this . is a moral issue and it's also an issue where people have been stuck at home and lost loved - ones during lockdown. they don't take kindly to that. this might be the moment
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where his luck runs out. i now someone who has been offering commentary in the last few days has been dominic cummings, former adviser to the prime minister. he tweeted. .. some lobby hacks were at the parties so they are trying to bury the story. you covered westminister for many years but are there situation in which lobbyjournalists either don't maximise a story or turn away from it completely? i think inevitably. it's less the case that it used to be. 30 years ago, 30—a0 years ago lobby journalists would turned a blind eye to all sorts of things going on in government in order to preserve their sources. i think that is a lot less the case these days and i think lobby journalists, political journalists, those based in westminister are a lot tougher on politicians and rightly so. i think it's difficult in this case because if some of the people, some of the lobbyjournalists were at the party there, potentially sources, people will say, well, shouldn't we as journals should expose what
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otherjournals are at the party? it's very tricky for people doing the story to get the story far from otherjournalists and then expose them. they can't do that, can they? pippa, you have been reporting on this, were there any journalists at the party? at the christmas party on december 10th, there other journalists there. or no journalists there. the allegation which dominic cummings is making possibly people who, journalists may have been friends with the prime minister at his flat. certainly there were no journalists present. kitty donaldson, let's bring you in, what's your approach, what's bloomberg approach on when to socialise and interact with politicians and when not to? that's a difficult question. obviously as a reporter i go and see
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sources all the time and i'll have coffee and i have lunches with senior politicians. and sometimes i go to parties that i'm invited to, the prime minister usually has a christmas party for journalists. i'm not sure if that's good ahead this year. i wonder if you'll be invited, pippa? i hope so, if it goes ahead. sorry, kitty, i interrupted. that's ok. the thing i would try and keep in mind is that when i'm reporting on the people who are my friends, there is a personal detachment there. do you feel that detachment, paul, as you watch the consequences of your story have a personal impact on allegra stratton and personally other people too? there was an interesting dimension when we are tackling the story- for that. we decided that we had to treat it as if she was any other—
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subject in the report where we had to maintain that professional- separation from the story. and imagine she was any other figure in number10, _ who perhaps we didn't - go anywhere near as well. we are human beings _ and you sympathies and you have feelings for people. we don't like to see anyone suffering because of a story that we have broken. but ultimately, it's - a public interest that we serve asjournalist. katie, you manage these relationships from the other side when you were working with theresa may, how did you view them as a friendship, as a working relationship, as nothing more than something that serves both sides? i think it was a working relationship. and i've known many of these journalists before numberio. it's a game of cat and mouse when you feel you're constantly
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—— may feel you're trying to cover up —— may feel you're trying to cover up the truth and we feel on never say that journalists are up the truth and we feel on never say thatjournalists are picking over every single word and trying to make something out of it. i think there are cosy relationship between special advisers and that's how it goes. it does come back to how your principal want to ask with up theresa may didn't want that cosy relationship, she didn't want that structure. it changed quite differently from my relationships with journalists. and there you go to the us and trump would choose a journalist from the sun to ask questions from the uk side. afterwards someone said, you call them your friends? i said no, they're not ourfriends. we live in a democracy and they hold us to account. he didn't like that very much. no, i imagine he didn't. it's interesting you talk about agendas both of politicians and their advisers
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but also of journals. michael, when you're considering source information coming in a direction, presumably you're acutely aware that whoever has given it to you may well have an agenda. every time some source tells you something, you have to say, "well, why are they telling me this, and why they come to be, what is it to try to get across, and depending on whether they've got an interest in what's coming up or something they happen to know, that all becomes part of the assessment and part of the calculation that you have to make as to how many and what strength of other sources you need. this whole thing about friendship is a difficult one. allegra stratton used to be my producer on newsnight. i was on friendly terms with her, i can't say she is friendly these days. she was a colleague of mine at work during teresa may in downing street and worked with me at the bbc. these relationships are very difficult. my own stand is to try and keep a certain distance is much as i can.
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but they have been relationships in the past. i remember in the blair years both the alastair campbell and peter mendelson were very close to certain journalists and it always seemed to be those journalists that came out with the stories that were favourable to the blair government. and i was very uncomfortable with that. and i think a lot of colleagues were uncomfortable with that. that certain journalists can be used as mouthpieces for certain politicians. kitty, i wonder if you agree with that assessment. absolutely. i started work in the lobby in the blair years. i didn't know many people, it seemed to me that the certain senior types that i think at the time were getting all these scoops and my employers were saying, where are you are in all this, why are you not getting scoops? as i get older and develop my own contacts, the same thing happens with that, you have to take a view every time you are told something as michael said, why is this person telling me
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this and what is their position in the party? presumably if they give you information a couple of times and you don't run a story, in the end they think, well, this journalists isn't much use to me because i'm giving them valuable information but they're not putting it in the public domain. yeah, there's always at risk. i was trying to take a view that you're playing the long game and if someone is insisting on telling you things you got to wonder why they are saying this to you. much trickier is the occasion when you have a source who gives you regular good information and then you get some information that's adverse to that source and you have to make... or you're in danger of losing that source if you run it. ultimately i think you have to run it because ultimately you have to judge the story on the public interest and not whether you're going to mess up a potential future source. but those kind of dilemmas you get all the time in this business ofjournalism, which makes it all the more fascinating in terms of what one should morally do. it certainly is fascinating listening to all five of you. as we enter the home stretch of this
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edition of the media show, pippa and paul, i must ask you, when you're in the middle of the maelstrom, when the information is out there and having an impact, are you talking to the fourth two ——sources who gave you this information, and you are you saying to them, look, you gave me this information. i'm in touch with sources but normally and certainly in this case it's more of a case of are you ok, how are you finding all of this? almost like a support, i guess. a duty of care? definitely, absolutely. and that continues was up i'm still in touch with some sources from barnard castle scoop. echoes goes on for a long time. paul, have you spoke to the person who gave you the video? we have. and i would absolutely repeat what pippa has said about duty of care.
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that's something you have to bear in mind all the way through. all of us on the show today are used to operating in a media environment. often the sources we're speaking to have no experience whatsoever of the media until the point at which they are thrust into that spotlight. and to some degree was the case with our source and for our story yesterday. so we absolutely have a duty of care to them to make sure they are ok, that they're dealing with the pressure ok. because they are anxious, like any source would be, about being found out. and we have to make sure that we hold their hands with that, really. i've only 30 seconds michael, in those seconds we have a resignation to become a high—profile resignation. does the story still have more in it, do you think? a lot more in it. and i think allegra stratton's duty now is go to the local police station and tell them what she knew. we've got a cabinet secretary inquiry, police inquiry potentially, if they take it seriously. this is going to run and run. there is huge anger on the conservative backbenches
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amongst conservative ministers. and so many other conservatives have been dragged into this by having to defend the prime minister in things they clearly don't believe. michael, that is a last point of today's programme, thank you very much to all five of you. i suspect we could've talked about this for a long time. to all of my guests on today's media show. don't forget you can listen back to all her additions via the bbc sounds at we will be back with you at the usual time next week. bye— bye. evening, down goes the sign and the festive light. except it has not felt very festive across the uk today. it has been what i would say is unnervingly mild. you step outside, do i need my coat or not? that is because we have had southerly winds and we can trace that origin all the way down south into the atlantic. behind this band
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of cloud here, there is a cooler area that will slide into the northern half of the uk through this evening and overnight. accompanied by strong winds very time for northern ireland, the western isles of scotland into the small hours of monday, the strongest winds will be across the northern winds as the night comes to a close and her first thing monday morning. a temperature divide across the uk with this band of rain between any mild that in the south, temperatures overnight in double figures. seven or 8 degrees, still average by day at this time of year. —— across scotland and northern ireland, but cooler overnight. the best in the sunshine will be towards the north of the uk, temperatures not very different to those we see overnight. teddy said, some rain, midlands, northern england, east anglia, to the south of very that meddler will talk afterwards the continent tuesday into wednesday. and we will see another weather system coming in towards the far north—west for scotland and northern ireland. windy on tuesday,
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some cloud around, a bit of rain. it gets milder here because we get south—westerly winds. our warmest spot on tuesday in northern ireland and northern scotland. further south, a little cooler, temperatures 8-10 . south, a little cooler, temperatures 8—10 . high south, a little cooler, temperatures 8—10. high pressure all of the south, a little cooler, temperatures 8—10 . high pressure all of the well through the second half of the week building from the south. it will make this weather front really into nothing on wednesday as it sinks out. rain for scotland, nothing on wednesday as it sinks out. rainfor scotland, northern ireland but not much in northern england, the height of the south already ranking down. as it does so, that sets us up for their winter problem, if you like. that is light winds giving us the opportunity for fog to fire by night and stick around by day. as at this high bloom is across at the uk thursday and friday, it could become a widespread extensive problem. we will tend to scan the outer side until the end of the week as we pull our aid in from the week as we pull our aid in from the south. temperatures are still around average, perhaps a shade above, but increasingly grey and gloomy as we bring our week to a
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this is bbc news. i'm jane hill. the headlines at 4pm... the first people in the uk have been hospitalised with the omicron variant of coronavirus, as the nhs in england extends the booster jab programme. days before an expected backbench rebellion, the prime minister faces fresh questions about christmas gatherings at downing street a year ago, after a photo emerges of him taking part in a quiz. he can't deliver the leadership that this country needs and we have got a very important votes coming up next week and he can't even discharge the basic functions of government. he is the worst possible leader of the worst possible time. they can now make their mind up when they see this picture of a prime minister
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