tv Dateline London BBC News December 25, 2021 11:30am-12:01pm GMT
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of a rocket carrying a space telescope that could transform our understanding of the universe. the rocket carrying the james webb space telescope will take off from french guiana later. that agenda is now thought of under threat because of the money that it requires and we have a chance of thatis requires and we have a chance of that is stricter with the purse strings and then borisjohnson would
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like now on bbc news, it's time for dateline london, with shaun ley. london, with shaun ley. hello and a warm welcome to the first of two special editions of dateline london. next weekend at the turn of the year, we will make some predictions for 2022. this weekend, we concentrate on the waning year and that seasonal classic. scrooge had three ghosts to remind scrooge. we don't have ghosts on this programme, we have guests. three distinguished journalists to reflect on the year. henry chu, isabel hilton and the bbc�*s lyse doucet. a very warm welcome for it to you all. thanks for breaking off to be
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with us on dateline. let us begin as you would expect with the virus. isabel, can you start by talking about how this year has been different from the previous year? this is the second year in which we had to learn to deal with covid. you're absolutely right. i think that fact has been the biggest shift. i think when it started, we probably all thought it would peak, and then it would be normal. but i think now we understand, this is a systemic crisis. it's changing the way we live. it won't go away. our accommodation with it will be what matters going forward, but we'll always go on suffering from new variants, particularly since the divide between the privileged world and the less privileged world and how we deal with it
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and prepare for it and how well we vaccinate against it. that has widened. economically, the local economy... the global economy. the figures are all over the place because for part of this year, we've seen a big bounce back in the recovery, but i think gave a falsely optimistic picture. the previous year was so extremely locked down. i think the shape of travel, these things will go or won't go back to where they were. just as the poor have grown poorer, the rich have grown richer and the assumptions that i think we made about what global progress is, those probably changed profoundly. so, the global order�*s been shifting. china is more assertive, the us is still quite off balance,
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partly as a result of the trump presidency, but also in the handling of covid and the judgments that have been made of governments and how they handle covid. they have thrown all sorts of political assumptions into question. in china, if you think back to when this started, there was huge criticism of the early mistakes, the suppression of the news, the suppression of the whistle—blowers, the permitting of mass gatherings and the feeling that this could be a watershed moment for the party. the party reversed its policy. it has still got a zero tolerance policy, which has meant essentially that china has remained locked down as far as the outside world goes largely. in some ways, that's effective.
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but it's also a policy with no exit strategy. again, that's quite a big moment to understand that if china that had so greatly benefited from opening up is now shut down, it's a return to that kind of china which didn't have quite so much interaction with the rest of the world. the coming and going of people and cultures and students and all these things is severely restricted. henry, which countries do you think have handled it best and worst? what policies have really been successful? it's certainly been instructive to sit here now. to see how things have shifted both
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in terms of the virus itself, being a mutating thing, and the way the government's had to do the same in terms of how they confront it. looking back a little over a year ago, everyone was praising new zealand for saying they could eradicate the virus, and they trumpeted that very accomplishment. it was just this year that they've had to backtrack on that and say look, we cannot get rid of it entirely unless we completely cut ourselves off from the world, so we need to live with it. same with germany, which was being boosted as a paragon of how to respond to the virus. they've also had protests at home against lockdowns and other restrictive measures. they've had a bit slower vaccination uptake than they expected, so they had to really play the game and try to keep on top of things. i think what it's shown us is that no single one policy is going to take a country out of danger. everything has to be multipronged.
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vaccinations now are making an incredible advance. we are in a better situation because of science and the fact we have these inoculations. to try to put all your eggs into that basket is also wrong. we've seen that a little bit here in britain where it's all about the jabathon. that cannot be the be—all and end all. we have restrictions which other countries never dropped. like masks and working from home. those now have to come into play as well, so there's not going to be any magic bullet that will solve this problem. another country that also seems to be doing very well is australia, which said we're going to ban travel in and out at the first sign of any positive test.
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that seemed to keep caseloads down, but at the cost of what? endless lockdowns for residents of melbourne, for example, people who cannot travel out of australia to see grandchildren, dying relatives and a other attend important events. there were human costs beyond keeping people safe. i think the lesson has been over two years is that governments need to be nimble because this virus is nimble. can i pick up lyse doucet on something that isabel said about the growing division? has it meant us and them? very much so. the science has been a stunning success. i never have vaccines been developed in such record time. _ 23, i think, around the world, some eight billion doses. - but the fairness of it all has been a stunning failure. - the world had two chances.
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even on this programme, - when the pandemic was starting, we talked about the mantra — no—one is safe until- everyone is safe. round one, the wealthy world bought up all the ppe. - even poor countries like afghanistan, i there was no resources. then we got a second chance, the vaccine roll—out. - we did worse than. the first time around. i as we speak, israel is providing i the fourth shot to those over 60, where the average in poorer- countries is somewhere around 21%. wealthy nations, - it's around 83%, 86%. of course, governments have to take care - of their own people first. the rise of omicron -
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has reminded us again, if we need to be reminded, that— if there are swathes - of vaccination populations, this gives chances for the virus to mutate, i so just when we were settling comfortably, thinking - we could celebrate the end of the year, people - are considering lockdowns again and the virus is back with us. i will we get a third chance? i'm not sure. it sometimes comes in threes. yet the science was there. nothing was secret about it. we knew what we had to do, but people's instinct - is to protect themselves. you can't blame people, but... it is an interesting challenge i suspect we will be talking about a year from now. let's move on and talk about the united states, and particular, the democratic challenge. the year began with donald trump's defeat in the november 2020 presidential election. that was just after the capitol riot on january the 6th.
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it may have shaken some of the complacency among americans about how solid their democracy was. democrats were flying the flag and saying they would defend their democratic tradition. and yet, 8 months later, the democrat president is acquiescing in the re—establishment of it everything that's antithetical to the us system — a theocracy, and an undemocratic one at that. it's quite a challenge. —— it's quite a contrast, isn't it? it hints at the way it's i being cast, as a contest. joe biden talked about it. between democracy and autocracy. for years, we used to talk about the competition - between great powers powers, regions. - now, it's been about systems. isabel touched on this.
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on both sides, they're saying they have the best system. l china is saying the state run system is the best l for dealing with these crises. whereasjoe biden is saying, and he had a summit, - he's actually gathering them and saying here we are, - the best of the best. this was a year with i so many articles saying the bad guys are winning. when president biden was sworn in, there was this undisguised glee - in european capitals. america is back. not just of the country, but there was this phrase about the - rules—based international system. america would be working with its nato partners. - you wouldn't have this 2014 crimea, etc, butjoe biden has _ had trouble at home. the assault on the capitol
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and the catastrophic- evacuation from afghanistan. it wasn't lost on the russians. they said, "there you go, | ukraine, see how america lets down its allies?" so, it is a challenge. both sides are being challenged, and not doing very well. - the year ends with biden�*s very ambition�*s plans for rebuilding, building back better. the post—covid recovery. it is a year in which he has talked a lot about what he talked about during the campaign. reaching across the aisle. he's an insider, but this is why an insider is good for the united states. what's your assessment of all that? certainly, the public assessment ofjoe biden's presidency,
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which lets remember is less than a year old, is still fairly low. he came in on the waves of great hopes by those who voted him in, and many of those hopes have been frustrated. a lot was made of the fact that he had a very long tenure in the senate, and he knows many of the people on capitol hill. there was hope that he could bring that consensus, knock some heads together and get major legislation passed. unfortunately, the bitterness from last november, and even the continuing refusal of many republicans to acknowledge the legitimacy of his election, continues to poison the atmosphere there and polarise public opinion. i think there is now recognition that there is virtually no republican lawmaker who is willing to work with the democrats. to be fair, when trump was president, that could also be said of the democratic caucus. they were also united in opposing him. although they did come together to pass some big
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coronavirus packages. it wasn't all obstruction all the time. but we're also seeing that, unfortunately for biden, some of the biggest problems are within his own party. it's not just across the aisle. who of us, maybe a year ago, knew the name joe manchin? now we have this senator from the state of west virginia who seems almost single—handedly to be holding up this build back better bill. he is the senator from a state with less than two million people, and yet his vote weighs as much as a senator from my own state, california, home to 40 million people. when you have a senate balanced on a knife edge between the parties the way it is, individual lawmakers like joe manchin have incredible clout. just to pick up on those words you used, the democratic challenge. that actually applies within the us
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on a micro level and not just on the world stage between democracies and autocracies. you have one senator who is holding up a major legislation. you also have redistricting going on. that seems to be restricting the vote of many minorities. a democratic deficit is notjust something that we're seeing across the board and globally, but perhaps within our own democratic societies. it has seemed as if democracy has been on the defensive. things have looked promising that look less promising now. sudan in africa and myanmar in particular. myanmar was particularly tragic. the more we learn about it, the worse it appears.
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but i would also cite some other cases such as india. often held up as a fine example of asian democracy, where under this particular government, freedoms have been very much in retreat over the past year. there's a survey every year in progress in democracies. they also try to assess the quality against criteria such as freedom of speech, freedom of press, effectiveness of rule of law. the depressing thing is not only have the numbers of democracies declined slightly, but in 45 countries, the quality of democracy has diminished. i think it is very much related to some of the topics we've been touching on. henry's account of the
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struggles ofjoe biden. the us has been the pillar of this sense of global democracy. upholding democracy as the best form of government. what's happening at the moment is partly this very strong challenge from china, which is hugely invested in misinformation and disinformation, and challenging the image of democracy as an effective vehicle for distributing benefit. in contrasts to as the party would claim to its own performance. that's one challenge which has found some receptive ground in western democracies where people are feeling frustrated and buffeted by any number of forces. they feel their politicians are not providing an effective remedy. that sense that democracy
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is resilient and delivers the best for their people is under extremely active challenge. autocracies are taking advantage of this. the idea that xinjiang and hong kong can happen without being effectively challenged, china and the united nations can make great headway in rewriting the rules. what's considered acceptable for human rights and mobilise the votes around it. these are pretty important shifts which affect both quantity and quality of democracy globally. i think democratic systems really need reform. henry mentioned the skewing of representation in the united states. that's partly a population trend which is going to get worse and worse.
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in the uk, the percentage of voters who actually elect a government. that has been pretty questionable! yet these systems are now so locked in extremist confrontation that the idea that they can reform themselves to give a better deal to voters, that seems pretty challenging. i think middle ground is really under attack everywhere. so is democratic legitimacy. thank you. let's move on to our last section. since isabel mentioned the united kingdom, let's focus a little more closely to home. boris johnson's year has ended badly. do you want to talk about the features that have opened up, do you want to talk about the fissures that have opened up, notjust in his party, but arguably has basic governing philosophy, the idea of leveling up and the uk becoming a more homogenous entity after years in which distinctiveness was regarded as something to encourage. isabel also mentioned this in terms
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of the fact that the coronavirus has thrown everything for a loop, and worsened inequalities around the world. including here in britain. it goes against precisely that leveling up agenda that borisjohnson made much of when he was elected. that agenda is now sort of under threat because of the money that it requires, and we have a chancellor who is perhaps a bit stricter with the strings than boris johnson would like, and there is squabbling within that on cabinet. and there is squabbling within the cabinet. boris johnson likes to protect a sunny air of optimism, but what he's not been known for necessarily is decisiveness. that's what is needed in a time like this, where reallyjust tough decisions need to be made. that would actually make britain a fairer society, bring more wealth to parts
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of the country that have gone without for a very long time, and just see a much more just system across the board. but i am struck that here we are one year later, and i feel like it's deja vu because exactly a year ago, we were in a situation where britain was being shunned by other countries because of a variant that was galloping through. now it's the omicron variant and france and germany are worried about british travellers. you had britain also on the brink of brexit. the idea that it could be locked in conflict with the eu. i think there's been a lot of slipping back. let's talk about the eu and the uk. the year ends with the reshaping of our relationship. finalising the divorce.
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do you think there has been progress this year? you use the word reshaping. i think any kind of shape would at least be coherent. but i think we've seen a steady slide in relations. and i think, no doubt, there are faults on both sides, but the uk insisted on the hardest brexit. and then continues to complain about the consequences. i know it's what politicians do, especially when they find themselves having to share pain rather than pleasure around the electorate or sectors of the economy. the question of who is going to pay for these policies, will it be agriculture, services, will it be education? all of the sectors
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are screaming now. they're all pointing out the difficulties... they're suffering the consequences of brexit. without there being any visible payoff beyond a series of trade deals that reflect a minuscule amount of the british economy, and we had them anyway, before brexit. the difficulty the government has in trying to square this circle is taking responsibility for what it had promised. if you take the analogy of divorce, there was going to be a wonderful new lover who was going to take britain to a new life, and somehow, that new love disappeared. the new life disappeared. so, it'll be difficult for any politician to present pain as a positive without actually having very many positives up their sleeves.
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so, i am not sure that ireland is... it's certainly not the only difficulty we face, but it is a pretty dangerous and unsquarable circle. the year has ended with the departure of lord frost, which has resulted in a catastrophic decline in relations. that's affecting all kinds of things, including things like the participation in horizon, the science programme. it's collaborative and open to non—eu countries, but the eu suspended
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british participation because of the toxic state of relations. i would hope as the year closes, there might be some serious reflection on the real life consequences of the policies pursued to date. perhaps this is an opportunity to get some more constructive conversation on the table. just reflect on what this year has meant for the european union because it had a rather bumpy experience, but at least it seems to have established a programme for recovery that seems to move the idea of one europe forward a bit at a time when it had looked rather under challenge. yes, but it is the european union. they're taking very different responses to lockdown. - of course, there is a big covid recovery plan, - but billions are held up - because of their systematic violation of whatever— is regarded as european values.
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they're saying, sorry, we will still plough on with our rule. - same in poland. i'm going to say sorry as well, because we are out of time and almost out of the year. henry, isabel and lyse doucet, thank you very much. we will be back at the turn of the year and have anew guest with us to talk about the year to come. new guests with us to talk about the year to come. enjoy the rest of the festive break. goodbye. we have seen snow and these areas are cold but bright for many. most
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will stay dry. a different story for northern ireland in southern england and wales. grey, misty, graceful, heavy rain this afternoon across south—western wales and northern ireland. milderairtrying south—western wales and northern ireland. milder air trying to come in but a cold wind elsewhere. temperatures of four to 5 degrees. in the wind it will be closer to freezing. wrap up if you are out for a christmas walk. tonight, that cold wind in place and these weather fronts pushing upwards. 0utbreaks wind in place and these weather fronts pushing upwards. outbreaks of rain for many but as it hits the cold wind across northern england, level levels and part of scotland, we will see snow blown around to take us into boxing day. a cold start in the north. milder and brighter conditions coming.
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this is bbc news broadcasting in the uk and around the globe. i'm martine croxall. our top stories... going further and deeper into space than ever before — a revolutionary telescope is due to blast off shortly. this is the scene live... we'll hear from the launch pad. as well as the experts. volunteers staff vaccine centres in england as the race to fight the surging 0mricon variant doesn't stop for the holiday. in his christmas message, pope francis highlights the immense tragedies in yemen and syria which he says are being passed over in silence. and the queen is expected to give a very personal christmas message this year — her first since the death of her husband prince philip.
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