"frank talks" on tension over ukraine. with more russian troops gathering on the ukrainian border, washington has warned any invasion will be met with a swift, severe and united response. at least 70 people have been killed or wounded in an air strike by the saudi—led coalition in yemen. a detention centre was hit in saada, a stronghold of the rebel houthi movement. thousands of people in the capital sanaa have protested against the attacks. stars including cher, boy george and bonnie tyler have led tributes to the singer meat loaf. the rock legend died at the age of 7a. concern is growing for female protesters in afghanistan with reports some have been abducted in the night by the taliban. now on bbc news, its

global questions. hello, welcome to global questions with me, zeinab badawi, from kyiv, the capital of ukraine. the buildup of russian troops near the border with ukraine has raised fears of oscar wants to extend its influence in former soviet states such as ukraine. —— moscow. we ask what is putin's game in his backyard? applause . hello and welcome. let me tell you who is on my panel and taking questions from our audience. deputy prime minister of ukraine is olha

stefanishyna. she has been the international face of the ukrainian government during this covenant government. she is the acting ambassador for washington, kristina kvien. carl bildt and sergey radchenko. that is our panel. welcome to you all. give them a round of applause. and remember you canjoin the round of applause. and remember you can join the conversation. we're going to a couple of questions to kick off with. russian troops under the border, _ russian troops under the border, is _ russian troops under the border, is that _ russian troops under the border, is that an - russian troops under the i border, is that an attempt russian troops under the - border, is that an attempt to -et border, is that an attempt to get the — border, is that an attempt to get the world's _ border, is that an attempt to get the world's attention - border, is that an attempt to get the world's attention or. border, is that an attempt toi get the world's attention or is there — get the world's attention or is there a — get the world's attention or is there a reat— get the world's attention or is there a real tension? - get the world's attention or is there a real tension? find- get the world's attention or is there a real tension?- there a real tension? and a similar question? -

there a real tension? and a similar question? yes, - there a real tension? and a - similar question? yes, indeed. why should — similar question? yes, indeed. why should the _ similar question? yes, indeed. why should the west _ similar question? yes, indeed. why should the west care - similar question? yes, indeed. why should the west care so i why should the west care so much — why should the west care so much ahout— why should the west care so much about ukraine - why should the west care so much about ukraine and - why should the west care sol much about ukraine and what russia — much about ukraine and what russia may— much about ukraine and what russia may do _ much about ukraine and what russia may do to _ much about ukraine and what russia may do to it? - much about ukraine and what russia may do to it?- russia may do to it? deputy prime minister _ russia may do to it? deputy prime minister of _ russia may do to it? deputy prime minister of ukraine i russia may do to it? deputy prime minister of ukraine is| prime minister of ukraine is olha stefanishyna take that one at first. why should the west care about ukraine? i at first. why should the west care about ukraine?- at first. why should the west care about ukraine? i think the answer is _ care about ukraine? i think the answer is as — care about ukraine? i think the answer is as simple _ care about ukraine? i think the answer is as simple as - care about ukraine? i think the answer is as simple as it - care about ukraine? i think the answer is as simple as it is - answer is as simple as it is because ukraine is part of the west. ukraine is at the west so whenever the west cares about any other bodice about eastern bodice, it should get the same about ukraine because ukraine cares about europe, ukraine is one of the largest trading partners and exporters, and basically on the black sea security border, it includes many other western countries and basically, if we're talking about democracy, democracy about democracy, democracy about people and you should get about people and you should get about ukrainian people and that is what we should stand for and we stand for ukrainian people

and their values and if we do not, we have double standards. kristina kvien why should the us care about ukraine? taste kristina kvien why should the us care about ukraine? we want euro -e at us care about ukraine? we want eur0pe at peace _ us care about ukraine? we want europe at peace stop _ us care about ukraine? we want europe at peace stop it - us care about ukraine? we want europe at peace stop it is - us care about ukraine? we want europe at peace stop it is in - europe at peace stop it is in the us, _ europe at peace stop it is in the us, europe and in the global— the us, europe and in the global interest. i think that ukraine, _ global interest. i think that ukraine, any country has the right— ukraine, any country has the right to _ ukraine, any country has the right to choose its own path. ukraine _ right to choose its own path. ukraine has made clear that its path _ ukraine has made clear that its path is — ukraine has made clear that its path is western integration. eu, — path is western integration. eu, nato and western integration and no other country— integration and no other country outside of ukraine should _ country outside of ukraine should be able to make that decision for them. carl bildt, what is the — decision for them. carl bildt, what is the point _ decision for them. carl bildt, what is the point of - decision for them. carl bildt, what is the point of the - what is the point of the buildup of the russian troops? is it a real danger or a way of getting attention from the world? �* ., getting attention from the world? 1, ., , , , world? both, absolutely. it is buildin: world? both, absolutely. it is building up— world? both, absolutely. it is building up a _ world? both, absolutely. it is building up a lot _ world? both, absolutely. it is building up a lot of _ world? both, absolutely. it is building up a lot of military i building up a lot of military forces and presented demands

that are impossible, very far—reaching, and he knows that and putin hopes that with lots of military pressure can gain some advantage. if he does not get that, you might continue. with military means. they are not contradictory. why do we care about this? it is fairly simple. if we want to have some sort of world order, you are simply not allowed to invade your neighbours. if you invade one country considered big to invade another country, well, another country will start invading another country and russia start invading another country as well so it is an absolutely fundamental principle of international order at stake. far more than ukraine. we care about ukraine but there is far more at stake. you are russian bond but you can give us some insight into

the russian perspective. what do you read into the russian buildup of troops? is itjust posturing, trying to blackmail the west or is there a real danger? i the west or is there a real danger?— the west or is there a real dancer? ., ., ~ the west or is there a real dancer? ., ., ,, , danger? i do not think putin is adverse to _ danger? i do not think putin is adverse to brinkmanship - danger? i do not think putin is adverse to brinkmanship but l danger? i do not think putin is adverse to brinkmanship but i | adverse to brinkmanship but i would — adverse to brinkmanship but i would not say that he is is a massive _ would not say that he is is a massive buildup of military sources— massive buildup of military sources and from act one, you have _ sources and from act one, you have a — sources and from act one, you have a gun _ sources and from act one, you have a gun on the stage, i act three — have a gun on the stage, i act three it — have a gun on the stage, i act three it is _ have a gun on the stage, i act three it is bound to go off so do not — three it is bound to go off so do not underestimate what we're now with — do not underestimate what we're now with russia but i would say that putin — now with russia but i would say that putin has not made up his mind — that putin has not made up his mind i— that putin has not made up his mind i do _ that putin has not made up his mind. i do not think he has made — mind. i do not think he has made up— mind. i do not think he has made up his mind. i think he is shopping — made up his mind. i think he is shopping for various possibilities. he is trying to see — possibilities. he is trying to see whether concessions may be made. _ see whether concessions may be made, whether he may be able to -et made, whether he may be able to get his— made, whether he may be able to get his way somewhere sol think— get his way somewhere sol think that actually allows opportunity to engage in diplomacy and we should be engaging in diplomacy and try

diplomacy until the very, very end — diplomacy until the very, very end both— diplomacy until the very, very end. both sides should do that because — end. both sides should do that because the stakes are high. not made up his mind to do what? and what concessions might he want? hat what? and what concessions might he want?— what? and what concessions might he want? not made up his mind to invade _ might he want? not made up his mind to invade ukraine. - might he want? not made up his mind to invade ukraine. in - might he want? not made up his mind to invade ukraine. in whatl mind to invade ukraine. in what sha -e or mind to invade ukraine. in what shape or form? _ mind to invade ukraine. in what shape or form? we _ mind to invade ukraine. in what shape or form? we do - mind to invade ukraine. in what shape or form? we do not - mind to invade ukraine. in what| shape or form? we do not know. i do not shape or form? we do not know. i do not have _ shape or form? we do not know. i do not have a _ shape or form? we do not know. i do not have a direct _ i do not have a direct connection to putin's mine, nobody— connection to putin's mine, nobody knows except putin. we know _ nobody knows except putin. we know there is a lot of uncertainty to the situation stop— uncertainty to the situation stop it _ uncertainty to the situation stop it could go in any way. i do not — stop it could go in any way. i do not think we should accept the conflict. the russians have shown— the conflict. the russians have shown over the years that they want _ shown over the years that they want to — shown over the years that they want to see themselves as partners _ want to see themselves as partners of the west, recognised by the west, whether they are — recognised by the west, whether they are part of the west or not is — they are part of the west or not is another question, but i do not — not is another question, but i do not think that they are set on conflict. what concessions?

putin— on conflict. what concessions? putin thinks in 19th century terms~ _ putin thinks in 19th century terms. he once influence. i do not think— terms. he once influence. i do not think he is trying to rebuild _ not think he is trying to rebuild the soviet union but i think— rebuild the soviet union but i think trying to extend his interests, his influence into areas — interests, his influence into areas that are bothering russia _ areas that are bothering russia. if areas that are bothering russia. .., , ~ russia. ifi can “ump in. while i fully agree _ russia. ifi canjump in. while i fully agree with _ russia. ifi canjump in. while i fully agree with everything, l i fully agree with everything, let me add a bit of pragmatism and sergey radchenko has talked about this. notjust and sergey radchenko has talked about this. not just talking about this. not just talking about putin talking to foreign leaders but he's also president of the country and he talks his population and needs to be supported. in 2014 when he annexed crimea, his rating was going higher but now it is not the case but now he's been

subject devised by the leaders. he has been invited to nato, to the oec bilateral talks, with the oec bilateral talks, with the us. that brings additional pluses to his narrative and support moscow, inside russia so if he goes with a military invasion, it will leave him no room for additional point to be gained by internal narrative so this is something that could restrain him but we should also take into account that it is notjust take into account that it is not just about global tops take into account that it is notjust about global tops and implications, it is something that perfectly well services internal interests as a president and was to be elected until the very last day of his life. ., ., y until the very last day of his life. ., ., , , , life. to add very briefly, there are _ life. to add very briefly, there are issues, - life. to add very briefly, there are issues, where | life. to add very briefly, i there are issues, where it should _ there are issues, where it should be possible to talk to him — should be possible to talk to him -- _ should be possible to talk to him. —— there to him. where russia — him. —— there to him. where russia should have an interest

of talking to us and vice—versa so the — of talking to us and vice—versa so the best possible scenario is if this— so the best possible scenario is if this crisis is deescalated and go into more constructive discussions stop it does— constructive discussions stop it does not seem what is happening at the moment but we should _ happening at the moment but we should not give up hope. that leads to our _ should not give up hope. that leads to our next _ should not give up hope. trust leads to our next question. should not give up hope. that l leads to our next question. why doesnt leads to our next question. why doesn't russia _ leads to our next question. why doesn't russia not _ leads to our next question. why doesn't russia not want to co-operate _ doesn't russia not want to co—operate with— doesn't russia not want to co—operate with ukraine . doesn't russia not want toi co—operate with ukraine on doesn't russia not want to . co—operate with ukraine on a liberal— co—operate with ukraine on a liberal democratic— co—operate with ukraine on a liberal democratic basis? - co—operate with ukraine on a i liberal democratic basis? why doesnt liberal democratic basis? why doesn't russia _ liberal democratic basis? why doesn't russia not _ liberal democratic basis? doesn't russia not want to co—operate with ukraine on a liberal democratic basis? this is because putin is not a liberal democrat. putin thinks in 19th century terms and is a 19th century statement and he wants a sphere of influence. he is a hard—core realist and reality it might be unpalatable but it has the singular advantage of being real. he

talks about brotherly love for the nation of ukraine, we have a common history, our languages are similar, why does he take that approach, to try to bring them closer? he that approach, to try to bring them closer?— that approach, to try to bring them closer? ., , ., , them closer? he does, he does. he keeps _ them closer? he does, he does. he keeps talking _ them closer? he does, he does. he keeps talking about - them closer? he does, he does. he keeps talking about ukraine | he keeps talking about ukraine being a brother nation. we have the narrative about ukraine as far right, trying to suppress russian ethnic rights et cetera et cetera and then we have the ukrainian narrative about russia which sees russia as an imperialist. what we have is a complete disconnection of the two narratives. they are talking at each other and not with one another. is talking at each other and not with one another.— with one another. is that riuht? with one another. is that right? absolutely - with one another. is that right? absolutely right i with one another. is that l right? absolutely right and your— right? absolutely right and your question brought me back to the — your question brought me back to the recent press conference by putin. — to the recent press conference by putin, for the last year,

and — by putin, for the last year, and if— by putin, for the last year, and if you _ by putin, for the last year, and if you listen to him, you see — and if you listen to him, you see this _ and if you listen to him, you see this is _ and if you listen to him, you see this is the president having _ see this is the president having no vision. he does not produce — having no vision. he does not produce any vision of how he sees — produce any vision of how he sees it— produce any vision of how he sees it russian, the development of global policy, he keeps talking about historical events he wants to restock— historical events he wants to restock as a new form. —— restore _ restock as a new form. —— restore stop he's bringing us to the — restore stop he's bringing us to the second world war period and trying to rearrange the european security and undermine everything we face. he only rings — everything we face. he only rings us _ everything we face. he only rings us back to the historical elements— rings us back to the historical elements he loved and enjoyed. he is— elements he loved and enjoyed. he is unable to co—operate on a liberal and democratic basis. from an american point of view, kristina kvien comedy want to see russia do that? absolutely. it would see russia do that? absolutely. it would be _ see russia do that? absolutely. it would be great _ see russia do that? absolutely. it would be great if _ see russia do that? absolutely. it would be great if russia - see russia do that? absolutely. it would be great if russia did i it would be great if russia did that but the problem is and i agree with both the previous

speakers, russia is not a liberal democracy and ukraine is. ukraine is getting closer and closer to that liberal democratic ideal of western europe and russia does not like it so russia is trying to pull it so russia is trying to pull it back into its model which is not a liberal democracy. but if russia did _ not a liberal democracy. but if russia did engage _ not a liberal democracy. but if russia did engage with - not a liberal democracy. but if| russia did engage with ukraine on a liberal democratic basis, what role would that leave for the united states. they would be fine for you for leadership of the free will, wouldn't you? we are perfectly happy to have russia deal with ukraine on a liberal democratic basis. we would welcome it. iearl liberal democratic basis. we would welcome it. carl bildt? the tragic _ would welcome it. carl bildt? the tragic thing _ would welcome it. carl bildt? the tragic thing is _ would welcome it. carl bildt? the tragic thing is that - would welcome it. carl bildt? the tragic thing is that putin l the tragic thing is that putin is dealing farmer with the past of russia — is dealing farmer with the past of russia are not the future of russia — of russia are not the future of russia. he is a 19th—century russia. he is a19th—century thinker— russia. he is a 19th—century thinker and he wants to create an empire _

thinker and he wants to create an empire ukraine, russia, belarus _ an empire ukraine, russia, belarus and then he wants to have — belarus and then he wants to have the _ belarus and then he wants to have the role that russia had in europe, intervening, reactionary... but he is a realist _ reactionary... but he is a realist. well, that is not the way— realist. well, that is not the way the _ realist. well, that is not the way the modern world is. the 19th _ way the modern world is. the 19th century was the 19th cerrtury— 19th century was the 19th century and we are now in the 21st _ century and we are now in the 215t century. century and we are now in the 21st century-— 21st century. what about the ethio - ian 21st century. what about the ethiopian generals, - 21st century. what about the ethiopian generals, still - 21st century. what about the | ethiopian generals, still lives by those rules. —— putin still lives by those rules. if by those rules. -- putin still lives by those rules.- lives by those rules. if we descend _ lives by those rules. if we descend back _ lives by those rules. if we descend back into - lives by those rules. if we descend back into the - lives by those rules. if we | descend back into the 19th century. _ descend back into the 19th century, battle between nations over everything, i think we all io over everything, i think we all go backwards and russia might be sort — go backwards and russia might be sort of— go backwards and russia might be sort of a big place. but it is a — be sort of a big place. but it is a small— be sort of a big place. but it is a small place in this particular world. is a small place in this particularworld. it is a small place in this particular world. it is depending on what is happening in the _ depending on what is happening in the rest of the world and he isolates— in the rest of the world and he isolates russia to the rest of the world to the detriment of

the world to the detriment of the russian people. he must be in the _ the russian people. he must be in the future and not recreate the past _ in the future and not recreate the ast. �* , in the future and not recreate the ast. h in the future and not recreate the ast. �*, ., the past. let's look at the future without _ the past. let's look at the future without next - the past. let's look at the . future without next question. you want to look at what is going on in the 21st century and pull russia out of this 19th century prison?- 19th century prison? what future is _ 19th century prison? what future is waiting _ 19th century prison? what future is waiting for - 19th century prison? what future is waiting for us - 19th century prison? what future is waiting for us as | future is waiting for us as this— future is waiting for us as this global— future is waiting for us as this global instability- future is waiting for us as| this global instability goes future is waiting for us as - this global instability goes by and the — this global instability goes by and the rivalry— this global instability goes by and the rivalry is _ this global instability goes by and the rivalry is here - this global instability goes by and the rivalry is here for- this global instability goes by and the rivalry is here for a l and the rivalry is here for a long — and the rivalry is here for a long time _ and the rivalry is here for a long time. does _ and the rivalry is here for a long time. does it- and the rivalry is here for a long time. does it mean. and the rivalry is here for a i long time. does it mean more conflicts— long time. does it mean more conflicts in _ long time. does it mean more conflicts in post— _ long time. does it mean more conflicts in post— soviet - conflicts in post— soviet countries _ conflicts in post— soviet countries and _ conflicts in post— soviet countries and the - conflicts in post— soviet i countries and the tension conflicts in post— soviet - countries and the tension and escalation— countries and the tension and escalation of— countries and the tension and escalation of old _ countries and the tension and escalation of old problems? i kristina, why don't you kick off without one. i kristina, why don't you kick off without one.— off without one. i wouldn't necessarily... _ off without one. i wouldn't necessarily... i— off without one. i wouldn't necessarily... ithink- off without one. i wouldn't necessarily... i think the i necessarily... i think the problem we are faced right now is by us— russian rivalry, at least not from our perspective. we are trying to integrate more with europe. we already are in

an incredibly strong alliance with nato, we work in the oecd together, and we also work closely, especially on trade and environmental regulation, with the eu. so we are, we want to be allies, we want to be together. and i wouldn't say that, and we would like ukraine tojoin us, by the that, and we would like ukraine to join us, by the way. and that, and we would like ukraine tojoin us, by the way. and if russia chose tojoin, fine, russia chose tojoin, fine, russia canjoin turn. i am not saying we are trying to make it about us and then we wanted to be europe and the us, and russia is the one trying to pull that away and break up the alliance. �* ., pull that away and break up the alliance. . ., , ., , ., , alliance. and do you see it, as olha is asking _ alliance. and do you see it, as olha is asking there, - alliance. and do you see it, as olha is asking there, that - alliance. and do you see it, as olha is asking there, that this| olha is asking there, that this global instability has been with us for a long time and may continue for a long time? that is u- to continue for a long time? that is up to russia. _ continue for a long time? that is up to russia. i— continue for a long time? that is up to russia. i think, - continue for a long time? that is up to russia. i think, if- continue for a long time? that is up to russia. i think, if i - is up to russia. i think, ifi can step — is up to russia. i think, ifi can step in. _ is up to russia. i think, ifi can step in, there - is up to russia. i think, ifi can step in, there is - is up to russia. i think, ifi can step in, there is a - is up to russia. i think, if i | can step in, there is a huge gap— can step in, there is a huge gap between, we're not about you or— gap between, we're not about you or nato or us, orjust any other, _ you or nato or us, orjust any other, it — you or nato or us, orjust any other, it is — you or nato or us, orjust any other, it is something where the collective west has got

extremely experience of building the consensus. and now in a global— building the consensus. and now in a global world, where you cannot take decisions only on your— cannot take decisions only on your own _ cannot take decisions only on your own on behalf your country. _ your own on behalf your country, when it comes to covid, _ country, when it comes to covid, to— country, when it comes to covid, to energy crisis, even to military— covid, to energy crisis, even to military force. we have learned _ to military force. we have learned how to make the consensus, and how to make collectively the decisions. but what — collectively the decisions. but what putin hasn't learned is to be part— what putin hasn't learned is to be part of— what putin hasn't learned is to be part of some consensus. broader— be part of some consensus. broader consensus. and until he understands that he should be a player— understands that he should be a player together with everybody, this could change the... is player together with everybody, this could change the... is a this could change the... is a putin is not _ this could change the... is a putin is not part _ this could change the... is a putin is not part of - this could change the... is a putin is not part of a - putin is not part of a consensus, but he has got friends, hasn't he? we have seen russian troops go in as part of the collective security treaty organisation, into kazakhstan to help the president there, sent a couple of thousand troops. he gets on very well with the president of belarus this is not somebody without friends in the region. so maybe sergey can pick up on

that, looking at post—soviet countries and conflicts there, are there some aspects to putin because my policy where he actually acts as a stabilising force, as he has in kazakhstan? i would argue yes. in terms of kazakhstan, i think kazakhstan has been a hideous dictatorship, but, you know, they had chaos, the russians went in, when they went in, the international expert community exploded with commentaries to the effect that russia was an acting almost kazakhstan, and restoring the ussr. a few days later they seem to be on the way out. —— and nick sing. that —— annexing. that shows that he is not set on creating a great empire, he is trying to sustain friends and clients in central asia, he is doing it with lukashenko in belarus, he knows his limitations, and the fact

that the russians pulled out of kazakhstan quickly i think shows that.— kazakhstan quickly i think shows that. olha's question about instability _ shows that. olha's question about instability in - shows that. olha's question about instability in former. about instability in former soviet countries, we have seen russia been a real destabilising force in georgia for instance, where it backed the breakaway separatists there in south ossetia, the same in moldova. so how far do you think olha's question is relevant in terms of russia being a destabilising force? putin wants to stabilise the region— putin wants to stabilise the region in— putin wants to stabilise the region in his own interest. with— region in his own interest. with after the kazakhstan intervention, he had a summit with— intervention, he had a summit with the — intervention, he had a summit with the relevant states around him and — with the relevant states around him and made a speech saying i want _ him and made a speech saying i want to— him and made a speech saying i want to go— want to go in to prevent democratic revolutions in ukraine _ democratic revolutions in ukraine. he does not want that sort of— ukraine. he does not want that sort of development. kazakhstan may not — sort of development. kazakhstan may not have been that but he clearly — may not have been that but he clearly presented as way of having _ clearly presented as way of

having the autocratic stability of the — having the autocratic stability of the near abroad of russia guaranteed... his of the near abroad of russia guaranteed. . ._ of the near abroad of russia guaranteed... his argument is that it is either _ guaranteed... his argument is that it is either that _ guaranteed... his argument is that it is either that or - that it is either that or chaos. . , that it is either that or chaos. ., , ., that it is either that or chaos-— that it is either that or chaos. ., , ., m chaos. that is what he said. he said there _ chaos. that is what he said. he said there are _ chaos. that is what he said. he said there are islamist, - said there are islamist, extremists, to use the word, the terrorist as they say... that is what he said, and that is what he believes. and i think that is fundamentally wrong. because if you build up these autocratic states, they collapsed sooner or later. what is not stable. democracy may not be —— may be messy but it is stable. the only way to bring long—term stability is to... (crosstalk). that leads into our next question very well, so hold your thoughts there, because we are going to go to a question. my are going to go to a question. my question, so what will happen after the change of all of the other autocratic regimes in post soviet countries? let’s in post soviet countries? let's no to in post soviet countries? let's go to you _ in post soviet countries? let's go to you then. _ in post soviet countries? let's go to you then, olha. -

in post soviet countries? let's go to you then, olha. i - in post soviet countries? let's go to you then, olha. i think. go to you then, olha. i think it is very _ go to you then, olha. i think it is very simple, _ go to you then, olha. i think it is very simple, and - go to you then, olha. i think it is very simple, and very i it is very simple, and very much _ it is very simple, and very much resonating to what has 'ust much resonating to what has just been— much resonating to what has just been put very simply. we will become stable, free, and independent of... of the cult of a — independent of... of the cult of a leader. so it is a great dream _ of a leader. so it is a great dream of— of a leader. so it is a great dream of many ukrainians not to know _ dream of many ukrainians not to know the — dream of many ukrainians not to know the name of a minister or a prime — know the name of a minister or a prime minister. because they are changing. but the country and the — are changing. but the country and the principles are remaining, and that is what democracy is. and that is the expectation of the stability and that he in europe to make sure _ and that he in europe to make sure that _ and that he in europe to make sure that there is a freedom of choice. — sure that there is a freedom of choice. but _ sure that there is a freedom of choice, but there is stability and — choice, but there is stability and we _ choice, but there is stability and we are not waiting for a father— and we are not waiting for a father or— and we are not waiting for a father or someone to come, as lukashenko is supposed to be called — lukashenko is supposed to be called in — lukashenko is supposed to be called in belarus, to say how does — called in belarus, to say how does he _ called in belarus, to say how does he want to spend his day today? — does he want to spend his day today? it— does he want to spend his day today? it is like, us, who decided, _ today? it is like, us, who decided, so it is about the freedom _ decided, so it is about the freedom and peace. 30 decided, so it is about the freedom and peace.- decided, so it is about the freedom and peace. so do you think it is _ freedom and peace. so do you think it is inevitable _ freedom and peace. so do you think it is inevitable and - freedom and peace. so do you think it is inevitable and that i think it is inevitable and that these autocratic rabalais james... iili these autocratic rabalais james- - -_ these autocratic rabalais

james. . . these autocratic rabalais james... . james... ifi can recollect in my memory. _ james... ifi can recollect in my memory. just _ james... ifi can recollect in my memory, just speaking l james... ifi can recollect in - my memory, just speaking about russia _ my memory, just speaking about russia and — my memory, just speaking about russia and understanding, back in 2013, — russia and understanding, back in 2013, until the war started, we were — in 2013, until the war started, we were about to sign the association agreement with the eu, putin, he didn't care about the agreement, he didn't care about— the agreement, he didn't care about the _ the agreement, he didn't care about the trade, and basically it wash't— about the trade, and basically it wasn't ukrainians who were thinking — it wasn't ukrainians who were thinking that we had to choose between — thinking that we had to choose between the russia and the european union. we have never been _ european union. we have never been thinking this way when we were _ been thinking this way when we were negotiating this agreement. but it is putin, who is putting — agreement. but it is putin, who is putting us in front of the choice _ is putting us in front of the choice. you choose europe or you _ choice. you choose europe or you choose _ choice. you choose europe or you choose russia. and we were shocked — you choose russia. and we were shocked that we were put in front — shocked that we were put in front of— shocked that we were put in front of this choice, because we were _ front of this choice, because we were not thinking this way. we were — we were not thinking this way. we were thinking about the democratic relations with, and friendship with russia, but it is them _ friendship with russia, but it is them who has put us in front of that — is them who has put us in front of that so _ is them who has put us in front of that. ,, , of that. so sergei, is it inevitable _ of that. so sergei, is it inevitable that - of that. so sergei, is it inevitable that these i inevitable that these autocratic regimes will fall, and what happens? i autocratic regimes will fall, and what happens?- autocratic regimes will fall, and what happens? i am very pessimistic. _ and what happens? i am very pessimistic. autocrats - and what happens? i am very pessimistic. autocrats have i pessimistic. autocrats have fallen, and they were replaced

with other autocrats. look at post—soviet histories. we have had 30 years. some countries like the baltic states are stable and democratic and wonderful. look at some of the central asian countries, we had dictators being replaced by other dictators. for example in khodykin stan, koos and revolutions —— kyrgyzstan. the fundamental question here is not about some of those other countries, it is about russia because it sets the tone across the region. when putin goes, i don't know when this will happen, somebody else will come. there will be an opportunity that we should not lose to engage with russia, to try to anchor russia in europe, because we missed our chance in 1989, we missed our chance in 1991, we should not allow this opportunity... 1991, we should not allow this opportunity- - -_ 1991, we should not allow this opportunity... breakdown of the soviet union. _ opportunity... breakdown of the soviet union. carl, _ opportunity... breakdown of the soviet union. carl, what - soviet union. carl, what happens when these regimes fall, as our questioner has asked? ~ , ., , ,

fall, as our questioner has asked? , ., _ asked? we should humbly say that building _ asked? we should humbly say that building democracy - asked? we should humbly say that building democracy and i that building democracy and rule — that building democracy and rule of— that building democracy and rule of law is not that easy. it rule of law is not that easy. it takes _ rule of law is not that easy. it takes time. culture, tradition, whatever. we have seen — tradition, whatever. we have seen that— tradition, whatever. we have seen that in those post—soviet post _ seen that in those post—soviet post yugoslav states, it is not easy, — post yugoslav states, it is not easy, is — post yugoslav states, it is not easy, is not straightforward, it requires time, patience, but it requires time, patience, but it is— it requires time, patience, but it is worth _ it requires time, patience, but it is worth it. because the alternative is far worse. the alternative is far worse. the alternative is far worse. the alternative is to descend into chaos — alternative is to descend into chaos and dictatorship. building democracy, messy, difficult, _ building democracy, messy, difficult, back—and—forth, ukraine _ difficult, back—and—forth, ukraine is not a perfect place, by the — ukraine is not a perfect place, by the way, but it is on its way — by the way, but it is on its way. and _ by the way, but it is on its way. and i— by the way, but it is on its way. and i think that lesson needs— way. and i think that lesson needs to _ way. and i think that lesson needs to be learned by everybody. needs to be learned by everybody-— needs to be learned by eve bod. ., ., ., everybody. thanks for that. i 'ust everybody. thanks for that. i just want _ everybody. thanks for that. i just want to _ everybody. thanks for that. i just want to come _ everybody. thanks for that. i just want to come back - everybody. thanks for that. i just want to come back to i everybody. thanks for that. i i just want to come back to you, do you want to comment on what you heard our panel say about this? i you heard our panel say about this? ., ., , ., , this? i want to be an optimist. you want _ this? i want to be an optimist. you want to — this? i want to be an optimist. you want to be _ this? i want to be an optimist. you want to be an _ this? i want to be an optimist. you want to be an optimist, i this? i want to be an optimist. | you want to be an optimist, we like that here. let me just get a couple of comments from our audience here on what they had heard our panel say today. anybody want to make a comment? russia became a successor state

of the _ russia became a successor state of the soviet _ russia became a successor state of the soviet union, _ russia became a successor state of the soviet union, they- russia became a successor state of the soviet union, they took i of the soviet union, they took over— of the soviet union, they took over their— of the soviet union, they took over their seat _ of the soviet union, they took overtheir seat in— of the soviet union, they took over their seat in the - of the soviet union, they took over their seat in the securityl over their seat in the security council. — over their seat in the security council. but _ over their seat in the security council, but did _ over their seat in the security council, but did they - over their seat in the securityj council, but did they change? thank— council, but did they change? thank you _ council, but did they change? thank you very _ council, but did they change? thank you very much. - council, but did they change? | thank you very much. another comment from our audience? the ro osal comment from our audience? the proposal to _ comment from our audience? the proposal to include ukraine as a nato — proposal to include ukraine as a nato plus— proposal to include ukraine as a nato plus member- proposal to include ukraine as a nato plus member will- proposal to include ukraine as a nato plus member will givel a nato plus member will give the possibility— a nato plus member will give the possibility to _ a nato plus member will give the possibility to the - a nato plus member will give the possibility to the usa - a nato plus member will give the possibility to the usa to. the possibility to the usa to foster — the possibility to the usa to foster and _ the possibility to the usa to foster and enlarge - the possibility to the usa to foster and enlarge the - the possibility to the usa to - foster and enlarge the american arms— foster and enlarge the american arms sales — foster and enlarge the american arms sales to _ foster and enlarge the american arms sales to ukraine _ foster and enlarge the american arms sales to ukraine that - arms sales to ukraine that looks— arms sales to ukraine that looks to _ arms sales to ukraine that looks to me _ arms sales to ukraine that looks to me as _ arms sales to ukraine that looks to me as a - arms sales to ukraine that looks to me as a great - looks to me as a great adventure _ looks to me as a great adventure commercialj adventure commercial possibility _ adventure commercial possibility for- adventure commercial possibility for the - adventure commerciall possibility for the usa, adventure commercial- possibility for the usa, but far fewer— possibility for the usa, but far fewer possibilities - possibility for the usa, but far fewer possibilities for i far fewer possibilities for ukraine _ far fewer possibilities for ukraine compared - far fewer possibilities for ukraine compared to - far fewer possibilities for ukraine compared to the j far fewer possibilities for - ukraine compared to the full nato — ukraine compared to the full nato membership. - ukraine compared to the full nato membership. nato - ukraine compared to the full| nato membership. nato plus seems — nato membership. nato plus seems like _ nato membership. nato plus seems like a _ nato membership. nato plus seems like a week— nato membership. nato plus. seems like a week compromise nato membership. nato plus- seems like a week compromise in the current— seems like a week compromise in the current discussions _ seems like a week compromise in the current discussions with - the current discussions with the current discussions with the russian _ the current discussions with the russian federation. - the current discussions with the russian federation. bill the russian federation. all ri . ht, the russian federation. right, thanks very much. the russian federation.- right, thanks very much. a clear voice there in support of ukrainejoining nato as clear voice there in support of ukraine joining nato as a full member. that is all we have got time forfrom this member. that is all we have got time for from this edition of global questions. we have been looking at what putin's grand strategy is in former soviet states such as ukraine. we other programme that gives you

the trendlines behind the headlines. until the next time, from me, zeinab badawi, and the rest of the global questions team, thank you to my panel and to the audience here. until next time, goodbye. applause. hello. it looks like the weather is taking part in dryjanuary — no significant rain on the way this weekend, nor indeed until at least the start of next week. there isn't going to be a huge amount of this either — blue sky and sunshine this weekend. cloud increased in the west on friday, looks like it is cloud that is going to win out across most places as the weekend goes on. temperatures edge a little bit higher. you'll notice that most in northern ireland and scotland, especially in northern scotland. so what's going on? high pressure close by, that is why we are having

a lot of dry weather. around it, bringing in a lot of cloud from the atlantic. it does limit the extent and severity of frost as saturday starts. a touch of it in north—east scotland, patchy in wales and england, where we had any clear spells overnight. and a chance for some early mist and fog patches. you can see the extent of the cloud across the uk for saturday. just a few brighter breaks here and there. they are most likely across eastern parts of scotland and england, whereas towards north—west scotland, we are going to see some outbreaks of rain. and it is breezier here, compared with elsewhere, but it is also milder — 11 degrees in stornoway. 10 in belfast and glasgow. temperatures elsewhere a little higher than they were on friday. overnight and into sunday, quite a bit of cloud around, a few breaks in that cloud here and there, where they occur, the chance of seeing a touch of frost. parts of wales and england in particular. there will be some mist and fog patches developing towards southern areas, where the winds are light, and they could well be slow to clear in a few spots as sunday begins. the high very much

here on sunday. there is a weather front edging closer towards north—west scotland as the day goes on. it doesn't look as if we will see much in the rain until sunday night. ahead of it, still some patchy rain in north—west scotland. the winds going to pick up here. gales developing in the western isles. a breezier day in northern ireland. light winds elsewhere. again, a lot of cloud around, just a few sunny spells. if anything on sunday, temperatures just come down a little bit. the high—pressure still with us into the start of next week. by mid week, we are going to see a developing weather system heading our way. here it is, and mainly through wednesday night, we will see an area of rain moving its way southwards, weakening as it does so. and behind that, high pressure building back in again but for a time later in the week, there will be some brighter skies around. that's your weather.

welcome to bbc news. i'm nuala mcgovern. our top stories: with russian troops massed near ukraine's borders — the us and russia hold "frank talks" about moscow's intentions. washington warns of massive consequences. if any russian military forces move across ukraine's border, that is a renewed invasion. it will be met with swift, severe and a united response from the united states. aid agencies say an air strike by the saudi—led coalition on a prison in yemen has killed dozens of people. anti—abortion activists gather in washington for the annual march for life. their hopes are now pinned on the supreme court. rio's colourful carnival parade is pushed back from february to april amid a coronavirus surge in brazilfueled by the omicron variant.