hello, and welcome to dateline london. i'm ben brown. this week we pay tribute to one of the worlds most remarkable women. her majesty queen elizabeth has been on the british throne for a record 70 years. also on the programme — we'll look at the diplomatic offensive to persuade president putin not to invade ukraine. joining me in the studio thomas kielinger die welt�*s veteran correspondent here in london and virtually — author of a bestselling book about the queen.

the sunday times royal editor roya nikkhah. and the american journalist from bloomberg news stephanie baker. welcome to you all. it's 70 years this weekend since a 25 year old princess elizabeth, on safari with her husband, learned that her father george the sixth had died. suddenly she had lost a father and become queen. in the decades since, she has come to embody the british monarchy and indeed modern british history — a living link to churchill and the desperate days of the second world war, and also to the winds of change as the british empire collapsed. royah nikka — royal editor of the sunday times — for a woman didn't originally expect to be queen, she's done a pretty good job? i think you're absolutely right. she has. and just listening to each the

extraordinary 70 years is remarkable thinking that her link back to winston churchill, 1a prime ministers are now in the way things are going, borisjohnson might not be her last. she has seen so much and yet where the really extraordinary things about the queen is it's been 70 years of historic monarchies and she is almost 96. i think where the keypad hangs the success of her rain —— key things. the success of her rain has had to slowly embrace change and make sure the monarchy evolves in this institution keeps evolving. i think one of the reasons why the views of the monarchy, it's still very popular in the queen is still very popular. petting these images restrain to see over the weekend,

the queen started a mark the milestone. the most extraordinary historicalfigure. it is milestone. the most extraordinary historical figure. it is almost no one like her that is experienced such social economical changes. it is a remarkable feat. you such social economical changes. it is a remarkable feat.— is a remarkable feat. you have written about _ is a remarkable feat. you have written about the _ is a remarkable feat. you have written about the queen - is a remarkable feat. you have - written about the queen extensively and you compared her to queen elizabeth the first. i and you compared her to queen elizabeth the first.— elizabeth the first. i had to look at this issue _ elizabeth the first. i had to look at this issue because _ elizabeth the first. i had to look at this issue because she - elizabeth the first. i had to look| at this issue because she herself elizabeth the first. i had to look i at this issue because she herself is at this issue because she herself is a young _ at this issue because she herself is a young queen and her first christmas broadcast had the issue of the issue _ christmas broadcast had the issue of the issue before me, after review this quotation, it is significant. the queen said 1953 some people expressed the hope that my rain may mark a _ expressed the hope that my rain may mark a new_ expressed the hope that my rain may mark a new elizabethan age. frankly, i do not _ mark a new elizabethan age. frankly, i do not view— mark a new elizabethan age. frankly, i do not view myself at all like my forebear— i do not view myself at all like my forebear was blessed with either husband — forebear was blessed with either husband or children who ruled as a desperate — husband or children who ruled as a desperate and was never able to leave _ desperate and was never able to leave for— desperate and was never able to leave for native shorts. but there's

one very _ leave for native shorts. but there's one very significant resemblance between — one very significant resemblance between her and me. one very significant resemblance between herand me. for one very significant resemblance between her and me. for her kingdom, small_ between her and me. for her kingdom, small it _ between her and me. for her kingdom, small it may— between her and me. for her kingdom, small it may have been with your pew neighbours, _ small it may have been with your pew neighbours, was great in spirit and well endowed with many men who were ready to _ well endowed with many men who were ready to encompass the earth. that to me _ ready to encompass the earth. that to me is _ ready to encompass the earth. that to me is different because who doesn't — to me is different because who doesn't compass the earth now from britain? _ doesn't compass the earth now from britain? the — doesn't compass the earth now from britain? the queen herself is most widely— britain? the queen herself is most widely travelled monarch of the world — widely travelled monarch of the world. they call her queen of the world _ world. they call her queen of the world she — world. they call her queen of the world. she travels and is a global figure _ world. she travels and is a global figure and — world. she travels and is a global figure and i say global figure, i am reminded — figure and i say global figure, i am reminded of the theatre which shakespeare played and performed. does the _ shakespeare played and performed. does the globe. so, the country has been _ does the globe. so, the country has been a _ does the globe. so, the country has been a global figure since those days and — been a global figure since those days and by the brexit people chose global— days and by the brexit people chose global britain as a mantra to follow, — global britain as a mantra to follow, i_ global britain as a mantra to follow, i do not understand. but the country _ follow, i do not understand. but the country is _ follow, i do not understand. but the country is declined, no question about it — country is declined, no question about it when you compare the years, but that _ about it when you compare the years, but that is— about it when you compare the years, but that is a _ about it when you compare the years, but that is a different story.

britain _ but that is a different story. britain was on the ascendancy and became _ britain was on the ascendancy and became a — britain was on the ascendancy and became a large important part and noticed _ became a large important part and noticed declining in the national stage _ noticed declining in the national stage. but she is still there and follows— stage. but she is still there and follows the module of her predecessor who used the latin word, always— predecessor who used the latin word, always the _ predecessor who used the latin word, always the same. she is been the same _ always the same. she is been the same and — always the same. she is been the same and everything. how always the same. she is been the same and everything.— always the same. she is been the same and everything. how do you think she has _ she is seeing around the world? i think she is particularly popular especially in the united states. she is my 12 us presidents as she is just as much a part of our history as yours. rain over 1a different british prime ministers and americans love the queen and will lap up the pageantry of the celebrations this year and prince

william and kate are very popular but prince charles is less so and one of the issues that could overshadow unfortunately the queen's jubilee is the prince charles scandal in the us and i think that it will cast a dark shadow of the celebrations individuals to trial it does not settle. and there is a lot of unsavoury testimony coming out and she is seeking the testimony of prince andrews and other testimony that could prove quite damaging if it does go to trial. so, it could cast a dark shadow earlier this year and likewise, the memoir that is due to come out could also come out with

potentially embarrassing details and revive these allegations that were made during the interview with 0prah about some of the royal family making a racist remark and i think it's quite sad that such a momentous celebration could be marred by both of those two things. in celebration could be marred by both of those two things.— of those two things. in the 70 year rain, of those two things. in the 70 year rain. there — of those two things. in the 70 year rain, there was _ of those two things. in the 70 year rain, there was the _ of those two things. in the 70 year rain, there was the claim - of those two things. in the 70 year rain, there was the claim that - of those two things. in the 70 year rain, there was the claim that the l rain, there was the claim that the royal family were prep set of touch after diana's death. there have been those for the queen.— those for the queen. there have been. stephanie _ those for the queen. there have been. stephanie has _ those for the queen. there have been. stephanie has summed i those for the queen. there have | been. stephanie has summed up those for the queen. there have - been. stephanie has summed up how much _ been. stephanie has summed up how much the _ been. stephanie has summed up how much the queen is to 11 to deal with on a plate _ much the queen is to 11 to deal with on a plate of the age of 95. i�*ve on a plate of the age of 95. i've been writing — on a plate of the age of 95. i've been writing a _ on a plate of the age of 95. i've been writing a lot _ on a plate of the age of 95. i've been writing a lot about this recently— been writing a lot about this recently and _ been writing a lot about this recently and it _ been writing a lot about this recently and it was - been writing a lot about this recently and it was very - been writing a lot about this. recently and it was very much been writing a lot about this - recently and it was very much in 1992— recently and it was very much in 1992 the — recently and it was very much in 1992 the breakdown _ recently and it was very much in 1992 the breakdown of- recently and it was very much in 1992 the breakdown of the - recently and it was very much in - 1992 the breakdown of the marriages,

the burning _ 1992 the breakdown of the marriages, the burning of— 1992 the breakdown of the marriages, the burning of windsor— 1992 the breakdown of the marriages, the burning of windsor castle. - 1992 the breakdown of the marriages, the burning of windsor castle. there. the burning of windsor castle. there a feeling _ the burning of windsor castle. there a feeling in _ the burning of windsor castle. there a feeling in the — the burning of windsor castle. there a feeling in the gulf— the burning of windsor castle. there a feeling in the gulf of— the burning of windsor castle. there a feeling in the gulf of the _ a feeling in the gulf of the jubilee. no— a feeling in the gulf of the jubilee, no one _ a feeling in the gulf of the jubilee, no one quite - a feeling in the gulf of the| jubilee, no one quite knew a feeling in the gulf of the i jubilee, no one quite knew i a feeling in the gulf of the - jubilee, no one quite knew i was going _ jubilee, no one quite knew i was going to — jubilee, no one quite knew i was going to go _ jubilee, no one quite knew i was going to go and _ jubilee, no one quite knew i was going to go and that _ jubilee, no one quite knew i was going to go and that the - jubilee, no one quite knew i was. going to go and that the monarchy had hit _ going to go and that the monarchy had hit such— going to go and that the monarchy had hit such a _ going to go and that the monarchy had hit such a low— going to go and that the monarchy had hit such a low of— going to go and that the monarchy had hit such a low of public- going to go and that the monarchyl had hit such a low of public opinion towards _ had hit such a low of public opinion towards the — had hit such a low of public opinion towards the 905 _ had hit such a low of public opinion towards the 905 here _ had hit such a low of public opinion towards the 905 here the - had hit such a low of public opinion i towards the 905 here the outpouring of affection _ towards the 905 here the outpouring of affection in — towards the 905 here the outpouring of affection in 2002 _ towards the 905 here the outpouring of affection in 2002 took _ towards the 905 here the outpouring of affection in 2002 took everyone i of affection in 2002 took everyone by surprise — of affection in 2002 took everyone by surprise. and _ of affection in 2002 took everyone by surprise. and they— of affection in 2002 took everyone by surprise. and they all— of affection in 2002 took everyone by surprise. and they all thought i by surprise. and they all thought that it _ by surprise. and they all thought that it was — by surprise. and they all thought that it was a _ by surprise. and they all thought that it was a page _ by surprise. and they all thought that it was a page turner. - by surprise. and they all thought that it was a page turner. and i by surprise. and they all thought that it was a page turner. and iti that it was a page turner. and it was on — that it was a page turner. and it was on the _ that it was a page turner. and it was on the mend _ that it was a page turner. and it was on the mend again. - that it was a page turner. and it was on the mend again. after. that it was a page turner. and it. was on the mend again. after pick that it was a page turner. and it- was on the mend again. after pick up on one _ was on the mend again. after pick up on one thing — was on the mend again. after pick up on one thing in— was on the mend again. after pick up on one thing. i'm going _ was on the mend again. after pick up on one thing. i'm going to— was on the mend again. after pick up on one thing. i'm going to disagree . on one thing. i'm going to disagree with _ on one thing. i'm going to disagree with the _ on one thing. i'm going to disagree with. the queen— on one thing. i'm going to disagree with. the queen is— on one thing. i'm going to disagree with. the queen is no— on one thing. i'm going to disagree with. the queen is no longer- on one thing. i'm going to disagree with. the queen is no longer a - on one thing. i'm going to disagree with. the queen is no longer a bigi with. the queen is no longer a big bower— with. the queen is no longer a big power player— with. the queen is no longer a big power player on _ with. the queen is no longer a big power player on the _ with. the queen is no longer a big power player on the road - with. the queen is no longer a big power player on the road 5tage, . power player on the road 5tage, poiiticatiy~ — power player on the road 5tage, poiiticaiiy~ i_ power player on the road 5tage, politically. i know— power player on the road 5tage, politically. i know the _ power player on the road 5tage, politically. i know the queen - power player on the road 5tage,| politically. i know the queen ha5 power player on the road stage, i politically. i know the queen has to be above _ politically. i know the queen has to be above politic5, _ politically. i know the queen has to be above politics, but _ politically. i know the queen has to be above politics, but i— politically. i know the queen has to be above politics, but i disagree . be above politics, but i disagree that because _ be above politics, but i disagree that because i— be above politics, but i disagree that because i think— be above politics, but i disagree that because i think the - be above politics, but i disagree that because i think the soft - be above politics, but i disagree i that because i think the soft power 5he that because i think the soft power she deploys— that because i think the soft power she depioys is— that because i think the soft power 5he deploys is enormous. - that because i think the soft power 5he deploys is enormous. and i that because i think the soft power 5he deploys is enormous. and it i that because i think the soft power. 5he deploys is enormous. and it was so interesting — 5he deploys is enormous. and it was so interesting to _ 5he deploys is enormous. and it was so interesting to me _ 5he deploys is enormous. and it was so interesting to me to— 5he deploys is enormous. and it was so interesting to me to see - 5he deploys is enormous. and it was so interesting to me to see however| so interesting to me to see however one from _ so interesting to me to see however one from joe — so interesting to me to see however one from joe biden _ so interesting to me to see however one from joe biden to _ so interesting to me to see however one from joe biden to macron, i so interesting to me to see however| one from joe biden to macron, there were all— one from joe biden to macron, there were all jostiing _ one from joe biden to macron, there were alljostling to _ one from joe biden to macron, there were alljostling to be _ one from joe biden to macron, there were alljostling to be photographed| were alljostling to be photographed next to _ were alljostling to be photographed next to her. — were alljostling to be photographed next to her, the _ were alljostling to be photographed next to her, the only— were alljostling to be photographed next to her, the only an _ were alljostling to be photographed next to her, the only an elected i next to her, the only an elected head _ next to her, the only an elected head of— next to her, the only an elected head of state _ next to her, the only an elected head of state among _ next to her, the only an elected head of state among them. i

next to her, the only an elected head of state among them. thej next to her, the only an elected l head of state among them. the g next to her, the only an elected i head of state among them. the g 21 and doing _ head of state among them. the g 21 and doing the — head of state among them. the g 21 and doing the remote _ head of state among them. the g 21 and doing the remote virtual- and doing the remote virtual n1essage._ and doing the remote virtual me55age, make _ and doing the remote virtual me55age, make no- and doing the remote virtualj me55age, make no mistake, and doing the remote virtual- me55age, make no mistake, 5he and doing the remote virtual- me55age, make no mistake, she is still above — me55age, make no mistake, she is still above politic5, _ me55age, make no mistake, she is still above politics, but— me55age, make no mistake, she is still above politics, but she - me55age, make no mistake, she is still above politics, but she is - 5till above politics, but she is still— 5till above politics, but she is still a — 5till above politics, but she is still a huge _ 5till above politics, but she is still a huge soft— 5till above politics, but she is still a huge soft power- 5till above politics, but she is still a huge soft power player| 5till above politics, but she is . still a huge soft power player in the 5till a huge soft power player in the international— still a huge soft power player in the international stage. - still a huge soft power player in the international stage. you. still a huge soft power player in the international stage. you must've misunderstood _ the international stage. you must've misunderstood what _ the international stage. you must've misunderstood what i _ the international stage. you must've misunderstood what i meant. - the international stage. you must've misunderstood what i meant. in i mi5under5tood what i meant. in politics— misunderstood what i meant. in politics as — misunderstood what i meant. in politics as a political power, britain — politics as a political power, britain is _ politics as a political power, britain is diminished compared to when _ britain is diminished compared to when the — britain is diminished compared to when the queen 5tarted britain is diminished compared to when the queen started in britain is no when the queen 5tarted in britain is no longer— when the queen started in britain is no longer a — when the queen started in britain is no longer a major world power but as a figure _ no longer a major world power but as a figure of— no longer a major world power but as a figure of influence, the queen stands — a figure of influence, the queen 5tand5 above it all and i quite agree — 5tand5 above it all and i quite agree amazing that despite all the change. _ agree amazing that despite all the change, 5he agree amazing that despite all the change, she has a certain charisma that attaches it5elf change, she has a certain charisma that attaches itself to royalty and to britain — that attaches itself to royalty and to britain. the monarchy it5elf that attaches itself to royalty and to britain. the monarchy itself does not explain — to britain. the monarchy itself does not explain what political power is in the _ not explain what political power is in the world. it is a different thing — in the world. it is a different thing. but i agree with you that the charisma _ thing. but i agree with you that the charisma of— thing. but i agree with you that the charisma of the monarchy i5 thing. but i agree with you that the charisma of the monarchy is the abiding — charisma of the monarchy is the abiding future value recognise great

britain _ abiding future value recognise great britain over 70 years. nothing, no scandai. _ britain over 70 years. nothing, no scandai. no— britain over 70 years. nothing, no scandal, no transformation has been able to— scandal, no transformation has been able to topple the british attachment to monarchy as the recognisable feature of your institutional stability stop by let's— institutional stability stop by let's talk about the stability. do you think— let's talk about the stability. do you think her long rain of stability and continuity has underpinned british— and continuity has underpinned british democracy overall of those decades? — british democracy overall of those decades? , , , ., british democracy overall of those decades? , , , ., , ., ,, decades? yes, she is a constant. she has remained — decades? yes, she is a constant. she has remained steadfast _ decades? yes, she is a constant. she has remained steadfast in _ decades? yes, she is a constant. she has remained steadfast in partial i has remained steadfast in partial and the studying presence through times of crisis. and as differently provided the continuity in two years time and will be the longest—serving monarch in history. she was surpassed louis xiv and that is just an incredible achievement and i think without her, i think the

country is facing real challenges for when the sad day comes where she does pass away. because i think there will be a real transition and will rethink of the monarchy and prince charles takes over and there's a lot of questions about how it is managed and how prince charles is talked about a slimmed down monarchy and much more about his political views than we do the queen and so he will have a harder time rising above the political fray as she has and there will be a real difficulty grappling with how prominent is prince charles, what role she give to her more popular sun prince william and how do they navigate what could be very difficult political waters ahead. i think it's fair to say that a lot of republicans have a respect for the

queen sense of duty, her hard work, or devotion to her role. let's pick up or devotion to her role. let's pick up on what stephanie was in, how does the monitor to maintain relevancy? talking about the lead to modernise. it’s relevancy? talking about the lead to modernise. �* , , ., , modernise. it's interesting, i was talkin: to modernise. it's interesting, i was talking to prince _ modernise. it's interesting, i was talking to prince william - modernise. it's interesting, i was talking to prince william at i modernise. it's interesting, i was talking to prince william at the i talking to prince william at the time where _ talking to prince william at the time where she _ talking to prince william at the time where she was— talking to prince william at the time where she was seeing i talking to prince william at the | time where she was seeing one talking to prince william at the - time where she was seeing one of my bil time where she was seeing one of my big challenges— time where she was seeing one of my big challenges is— time where she was seeing one of my big challenges is how— time where she was seeing one of my big challenges is how they— time where she was seeing one of my big challenges is how they keep - time where she was seeing one of my big challenges is how they keep this i big challenges is how they keep this relevant, how— big challenges is how they keep this relevant, how to _ big challenges is how they keep this relevant, how to keep _ big challenges is how they keep this relevant, how to keep this - big challenges is how they keep this relevant, how to keep this margin . relevant, how to keep this margin for the _ relevant, how to keep this margin for the future _ relevant, how to keep this margin for the future. in _ relevant, how to keep this margin for the future. in over— relevant, how to keep this margin for the future. in over to - relevant, how to keep this margin for the future. in over to the i for the future. in over to the prince — for the future. in over to the prince of— for the future. in over to the prince of wales, _ for the future. in over to the prince of wales, as - for the future. in over to the prince of wales, as it - prince of wales, as it became republic _ prince of wales, as it became republic and _ prince of wales, as it became republic. and there _ prince of wales, as it became republic. and there is - prince of wales, as it became republic. and there is no - prince of wales, as it became. republic. and there is no doubt prince of wales, as it became - republic. and there is no doubt that when the _ republic. and there is no doubt that when the queen _ republic. and there is no doubt that when the queen is _ republic. and there is no doubt that when the queen is no— republic. and there is no doubt that when the queen is no longer- republic. and there is no doubt that when the queen is no longer with l republic. and there is no doubt that. when the queen is no longer with us, our position _ when the queen is no longer with us, our position in— when the queen is no longer with us, our position in the _ when the queen is no longer with us, our position in the world _ when the queen is no longer with us, our position in the world will - our position in the world will change — our position in the world will change and _ our position in the world will change and the _ our position in the world will change and the prince - our position in the world will change and the prince of- our position in the world will i change and the prince of wales our position in the world will - change and the prince of wales will be trying _ change and the prince of wales will be trying to— change and the prince of wales will be trying to keep _ change and the prince of wales will be trying to keep it— change and the prince of wales will be trying to keep it relevant- change and the prince of wales will be trying to keep it relevant and . change and the prince of wales will be trying to keep it relevant and i. be trying to keep it relevant and i think— be trying to keep it relevant and i think prince — be trying to keep it relevant and i think prince charles _ be trying to keep it relevant and i think prince charles is— be trying to keep it relevant and i think prince charles is acutely - think prince charles is acutely aware — think prince charles is acutely aware of— think prince charles is acutely aware of that, _ think prince charles is acutely aware of that, particularly- think prince charles is acutely . aware of that, particularly given his age. — aware of that, particularly given his age. he _ aware of that, particularly given his age, he will— aware of that, particularly given his age, he will be _ aware of that, particularly given his age, he will be an _ aware of that, particularly given his age, he will be an old - aware of that, particularly given his age, he will be an old king l aware of that, particularly given . his age, he will be an old king and ithink— his age, he will be an old king and i think his — his age, he will be an old king and i think his vision _ his age, he will be an old king and i think his vision of _ his age, he will be an old king and l i think his vision of a slimmed—down monarchy, _ i think his vision of a slimmed—down monarchy, he — i think his vision of a slimmed—down monarchy, he wants _

i think his vision of a slimmed—down monarchy, he wants to _ i think his vision of a slimmed—down monarchy, he wants to open - i think his vision of a slimmed—down monarchy, he wants to open up - i think his vision of a slimmed—down monarchy, he wants to open up the i monarchy, he wants to open up the palaces. _ monarchy, he wants to open up the palaces. he — monarchy, he wants to open up the palaces, he wants _ monarchy, he wants to open up the palaces, he wants to _ monarchy, he wants to open up the palaces, he wants to open - monarchy, he wants to open up the palaces, he wants to open up - monarchy, he wants to open up the palaces, he wants to open up the l palaces, he wants to open up the homes _ palaces, he wants to open up the homes and — palaces, he wants to open up the homes and bring _ palaces, he wants to open up the homes and bring people - palaces, he wants to open up the homes and bring people close . palaces, he wants to open up the homes and bring people close to| palaces, he wants to open up the i homes and bring people close to the monarchy— homes and bring people close to the monarchy and — homes and bring people close to the monarchy and there _ homes and bring people close to the monarchy and there will— homes and bring people close to the monarchy and there will be - homes and bring people close to the monarchy and there will be a - homes and bring people close to the monarchy and there will be a lot - homes and bring people close to the monarchy and there will be a lot of i monarchy and there will be a lot of change _ monarchy and there will be a lot of change under— monarchy and there will be a lot of change under king _ monarchy and there will be a lot of change under king charles - monarchy and there will be a lot of change under king charles to- change under king charles to modernise _ change under king charles to modernise the _ change under king charles to modernise the monarchy- change under king charles to. modernise the monarchy when change under king charles to- modernise the monarchy when he trecomes— modernise the monarchy when he becomes king _ modernise the monarchy when he becomes king i— modernise the monarchy when he becomes king-— modernise the monarchy when he becomes king. i think thompson's last word on _ becomes king. i think thompson's last word on this. _ becomes king. i think thompson's last word on this. i _ becomes king. i think thompson's last word on this. ithink- becomes king. i think thompson's last word on this. i think i'm - last word on this. i think i'm rather sanguine _ last word on this. i think i'm rather sanguine about - last word on this. i think i'm rather sanguine about the i rather sanguine about the survivability. it is a thousand years — survivability. it is a thousand years old _ survivability. it is a thousand years old and throughout history, there've — years old and throughout history, there've been many on the throne were _ there've been many on the throne were not— there've been many on the throne were not very liked and almost despised — were not very liked and almost despised and the attachment of great britain _ despised and the attachment of great britain as— despised and the attachment of great britain as country and as a people to its— britain as country and as a people to its ancient institution is such that it — to its ancient institution is such that it is — to its ancient institution is such that it is well likely to survive all the — that it is well likely to survive all the changes and uncertainties may come. i predict that this institutional kingdom will be here to stay— institutional kingdom will be here to stay and as long as there's a united — to stay and as long as there's a united kingdom, there will be a monarchy— united kingdom, there will be a monarchy to recognise her as what she is _ monarchy to recognise her as what she is that— monarchy to recognise her as what she is. that is the antiquity of the

institution — she is. that is the antiquity of the institution. ~ and now to the crisis over ukraine, with well over 100,000 russian troops massed on its borders, president putin is still keeping us guessing about whether or not he's planning an invasion. boris johnson flew to to kyiv in a show of support for the ukrainian president — while mr putin has been meeting his chinese counterpart, presidentji xinping: the two allies stood shoulder to shoulder in demanding that nato stops its eastwards expansion. thomas — more diplomacy this week, can war be averted? in terms of the efforts to stop a war in the ukraine which could be incredibly plenty? have those efforts really got a chance? i incredibly plenty? have those efforts really got a chance? i think the do. efforts really got a chance? i think they d0- but _ efforts really got a chance? i think they d0- but it _ efforts really got a chance? i think they do. but it looks _ efforts really got a chance? i think they do. but it looks like - efforts really got a chance? i think they do. but it looks like vladimir| they do. but it looks like vladimir putin sees the threat of invasion

more effective than an actual invasion which could be many costly stop i do think he's bluffing? no one can get inside vladimir putin's had. it does look like he is building up his force and remember, there are 92,000 troops on the border back in april 2021 and although there has been an additional build and movement of forces since then, this has been ongoing for quite a while and i think, the sources we talked to say that he is using this as diplomatic leverage to get security guarantees that he wants. flan leverage to get security guarantees that he wants— that he wants. can you get this guarantees? — that he wants. can you get this guarantees? as _ that he wants. can you get this guarantees? as the _ that he wants. can you get this guarantees? as the west - that he wants. can you get this| guarantees? as the west going that he wants. can you get this i guarantees? as the west going to give him those guarantees? i guarantees? as the west going to give him those guarantees? i don't think they're _ give him those guarantees? i don't think they're going _ give him those guarantees? i don't think they're going to _ give him those guarantees? i don't think they're going to give - give him those guarantees? i don't think they're going to give into - give him those guarantees? i don't think they're going to give into his| think they're going to give into his demand that they guarantee that ukraine never becomes part of nato. that is a step too far. but there are some responses that were leaked.

us responses to russia's demands that were leaked to provide some openings for strategic dialogue over, for instance, intermediate range which russia has been asked to start negotiating for a while now. i think the us made some overtures about deploying defensive weaponry in the ukraine. 50 i think there is some common ground. what you see coming out of russia which is significant is this talk about implementing the agreements which are the 2015 agreement cease—fires to stop the fighting and they want that to go forward through this normandie format which is germany, france, russia and ukraine to restart those talks but fundamentally, russia and ukraine have different interpretations of that accord and not implemented.

pressure with the implemented and we were there by you have local elections and reintegrated with the rest of ukraine and give it status. ukraine disagrees with that interpretation and wants to regain control over its border with russia and then hold local elections and then give special autonomy to the region. i think we vladimir putin really wants ultimately to use that as a way to destabilise the ukraine going forward and everyone talks about vladimir putin is being this master strategist but calculating in 2014 by annexing print media and backing separatists in the east of the ukraine because he took the pro—russian forces in ukraine's political dialogue of the table and so it ignited the ukraine and made

it much more unified in its tilt to the west. undermined his ability to control through proxies. i think his main goal is to try to destabilise the ukraine and i don't think he wants to march troops into qef. it wants to march troops into qef. it is quite a terrifying prospect into thousand 22 we have troops that could, we don't know but it is possible, they could not an invasion and it could be a really bloodied war. it and it could be a really bloodied war. . . , and it could be a really bloodied war. ,., , , . ., war. it is a terrifying prospect and even more _ war. it is a terrifying prospect and even more terrifying _ war. it is a terrifying prospect and even more terrifying is _ war. it is a terrifying prospect and even more terrifying is a - even more terrifying is a boris johnson — even more terrifying is a boris johnson whatever— even more terrifying is a boris johnson whatever to - even more terrifying is a boris johnson whatever to the - even more terrifying is a boris. johnson whatever to the ukraine earlier— johnson whatever to the ukraine earlier this — johnson whatever to the ukraine earlier this week— johnson whatever to the ukraine earlier this week and _ johnson whatever to the ukraine earlier this week and was - johnson whatever to the ukraine l earlier this week and was standing shoulder— earlier this week and was standing shoulder to— earlier this week and was standing shoulder to shoulder— earlier this week and was standing shoulder to shoulder with - earlier this week and was standing shoulder to shoulder with the - shoulder to shoulder with the president— shoulder to shoulder with the president we _ shoulder to shoulder with the president we talked - shoulder to shoulder with the president we talked earlier i shoulder to shoulder with the | president we talked earlier on shoulder to shoulder with the - president we talked earlier on with our position — president we talked earlier on with our position in— president we talked earlier on with our position in the _ president we talked earlier on with our position in the world _ president we talked earlier on with our position in the world of - president we talked earlier on with our position in the world of it - our position in the world of it being — our position in the world of it being explored _ our position in the world of it being explored and - our position in the world of it being explored and getting . our position in the world of it being explored and getting a| our position in the world of it i being explored and getting a lot of support— being explored and getting a lot of sopport of— being explored and getting a lot of support of ukraine _ being explored and getting a lot of support of ukraine the _ being explored and getting a lot of support of ukraine the boris - being explored and getting a lot of. support of ukraine the borisjohnson was dogged — support of ukraine the borisjohnson was dogged during _ support of ukraine the borisjohnson was dogged during this _ support of ukraine the borisjohnson was dogged during this press - was dogged during this press conference _

was dogged during this press conference about _ was dogged during this press conference about the - was dogged during this pressi conference about the prospect was dogged during this press i conference about the prospect of going _ conference about the prospect of going on— conference about the prospect of going on in— conference about the prospect of going on in home _ conference about the prospect of going on in home thomas- conference about the prospect of- going on in home thomas mentioned our position — going on in home thomas mentioned our position in— going on in home thomas mentioned our position in the _ going on in home thomas mentioned our position in the world _ going on in home thomas mentioned our position in the world and - going on in home thomas mentioned our position in the world and the i our position in the world and the international— our position in the world and the international stage _ our position in the world and the international stage and - our position in the world and the international stage and even i our position in the world and the international stage and even ouri international stage and even our attempts— international stage and even our attempts to _ international stage and even our attempts to have _ international stage and even our attempts to have diplomat i international stage and even ouri attempts to have diplomat routes international stage and even our- attempts to have diplomat routes are damaged _ attempts to have diplomat routes are damaged because _ attempts to have diplomat routes are damaged because of— attempts to have diplomat routes are damaged because of the _ attempts to have diplomat routes are damaged because of the more - attempts to have diplomat routes are l damaged because of the more worrying aspects _ damaged because of the more worrying aspects for— damaged because of the more worrying aspects for a _ damaged because of the more worrying aspects for a back— damaged because of the more worrying aspects for a back home _ damaged because of the more worrying aspects for a back home in _ damaged because of the more worrying aspects for a back home in terms i damaged because of the more worrying aspects for a back home in terms of i aspects for a back home in terms of our position — aspects for a back home in terms of our position in— aspects for a back home in terms of our position in the _ aspects for a back home in terms of our position in the world _ aspects for a back home in terms of our position in the world and - aspects for a back home in terms of our position in the world and we i aspects for a back home in terms ofi our position in the world and we can actually— our position in the world and we can actually do — our position in the world and we can actually do on — our position in the world and we can actually do on the _ our position in the world and we can actually do on the diplomatic- our position in the world and we can actually do on the diplomatic stage i actually do on the diplomatic stage we have _ actually do on the diplomatic stage we have the — actually do on the diplomatic stage we have the distractions _ actually do on the diplomatic stage we have the distractions of - actually do on the diplomatic stage we have the distractions of boris i we have the distractions of boris johnson — we have the distractions of boris johnson leadership— we have the distractions of boris johnson leadership here. - we have the distractions of boris johnson leadership here. but- johnson leadership here. but horrifying _ johnson leadership here. but horrifying prospects - johnson leadership here. but horrifying prospects for i johnson leadership here. but horrifying prospects for the l horrifying prospects for the leadership— horrifying prospects for the leadership distracted i horrifying prospects for the leadership distracted to i horrifying prospects for the i leadership distracted to deal with that and — leadership distracted to deal with that and that _ leadership distracted to deal with that and that is _ leadership distracted to deal with that and that is worrying. - leadership distracted to deal with that and that is worrying. iit'lt�*haitl leadership distracted to deal with that and that is worrying.- that and that is worrying. what is vladimir putin's _ that and that is worrying. what is vladimir putin's strategy? - that and that is worrying. what is vladimir putin's strategy? miss l that and that is worrying. what is i vladimir putin's strategy? miss read a few more years — vladimir putin's strategy? miss read a few more years back— vladimir putin's strategy? miss read a few more years back when - vladimir putin's strategy? miss read a few more years back when the i a few more years back when the soviet _ a few more years back when the soviet union collapsed we thought the west— soviet union collapsed we thought the west triumphed can be expanded nato _ the west triumphed can be expanded nato and _ the west triumphed can be expanded nato. and the ukraine and the russian — nato. and the ukraine and the russian sentiment is part of the

sense _ russian sentiment is part of the sense that kyiv is one of the lord russian _ sense that kyiv is one of the lord russian identity. so, should she move _ russian identity. so, should she move the — russian identity. so, should she move the friendly alliance right to the border of russia? i covered the us policies— the border of russia? i covered the us policies from the white house and the americans of the monroe doctrine that does— the americans of the monroe doctrine that does not allow the neighbouring countries _ that does not allow the neighbouring countries around america to have an alliance _ countries around america to have an alliance with — countries around america to have an alliance with another force that would — alliance with another force that would likely position its weapons in the neighbourhood of the us, recognising russia as entitlement to a similar— recognising russia as entitlement to a similar treatment that no kind of organised — a similar treatment that no kind of organised alignment should come to their borders with troops and defence _ their borders with troops and defence alliances was a palace mistake~ — defence alliances was a palace mistake. to what extent can you satisfy— mistake. to what extent can you satisfy the — mistake. to what extent can you satisfy the respect that he wants. it is satisfy the respect that he wants. it is a _ satisfy the respect that he wants. it is a free — satisfy the respect that he wants. it is a free country in he can do what _ it is a free country in he can do what they— it is a free country in he can do what they like. we have to see some

diplomatic— what they like. we have to see some diplomatic understanding of the issue _ diplomatic understanding of the issue of— diplomatic understanding of the issue of nato moving up and it is not a _ issue of nato moving up and it is not a viable _ issue of nato moving up and it is not a viable one, i do useful one. the only— not a viable one, i do useful one. the only instance russian sentiments only totally find it unacceptable for russia to occupy the ukraine territory — for russia to occupy the ukraine territory and countryside. but we have _ territory and countryside. but we have not— territory and countryside. but we have not really dealt properly with russia's _ have not really dealt properly with russia's concern is a power for another— russia's concern is a power for another alliance to come to their borders— another alliance to come to their borders and appeared to be threatening. the over blow this threat — threatening. the over blow this threat for— threatening. the over blow this threat for the entrance. but the diplomatic solution should be about attowing _ diplomatic solution should be about allowing the ukraine to be a free country — allowing the ukraine to be a free country without the promise to become — country without the promise to become a _ country without the promise to become a nato ally. that would be foothardy — become a nato ally. that would be foolhardy and need to get off that position _ foolhardy and need to get off that position completely. you foolhardy and need to get off that position completely.— foolhardy and need to get off that position completely. you are based in moscow. — position completely. you are based in moscow, what _ position completely. you are based in moscow, what was _ position completely. you are based in moscow, what was your - position completely. you are based in moscow, what was your sense i position completely. you are based in moscow, what was your sense of} position completely. you are based i in moscow, what was your sense of of the russian people think of this? massively hard to generalise especially from a distance, but do

you think they should president pruden�*s anger in terms of expanding nato quiz maker do you think vladimir putin isjust using all of this tojust try vladimir putin isjust using all of this to just try and shore it is supported home? is got a lot of economic problems at home. i supported home? is got a lot of economic problems at home. i don't think there's — economic problems at home. i don't think there's any _ economic problems at home. i don't think there's any real— economic problems at home. i don't think there's any real support - economic problems at home. i don't think there's any real support in - think there's any real support in russia for an all—out invasion of the ukraine. particularly amongst the ukraine. particularly amongst the younger generation who would have to be fighting on the front lines in this war. he hasn't been talking about this in a way that you might expect to drum up support for such a huge military action. it such a huge military action. it could be another afghanistan where russian troops just get bogged down. right, exactly. and no one thinks they can do is march their forces into the ukraine and beyond and actually hold it without it being

incredibly costly both in terms of lives and in terms of financial costs. this is a possibility for sanctions. i do think questions like seeing their leader is a strong figure on the world stage and he hits achieved that by this military build—up. and he's got this and managed to get them, started this normandie format talks of the situation in eastern ukraine and, i think in that sense, the support for his actions. but full—scale military invasion, i don't see that now. just briefl , invasion, i don't see that now. just briefly. do — invasion, i don't see that now. just briefly. do you _ invasion, i don't see that now. just briefly, do you think war can be avoided? i briefly, do you think war can be avoided? ~ . avoided? i think vladimir putin knows the _ avoided? i think vladimir putin knows the consequences - avoided? i think vladimir putin knows the consequences if - avoided? i think vladimir putin knows the consequences if he l avoided? i think vladimir putin i knows the consequences if he did invado _ knows the consequences if he did invado i— knows the consequences if he did invade. i think he calculates quite well the _ invade. i think he calculates quite well the risks that he is running and i_ well the risks that he is running and i think_ well the risks that he is running and i think you will step away from that threat, he makes these blustery noises _

that threat, he makes these blustery noises to— that threat, he makes these blustery noises to convince the west that he has sensitivities that need to be satisfied, — has sensitivities that need to be satisfied, but i don't think to occupy _ satisfied, but i don't think to occu . ., ., ., occupy. he could mount a partial invasion rather _ occupy. he could mount a partial invasion rather than _ occupy. he could mount a partial invasion rather than invade - occupy. he could mount a partial invasion rather than invade the l invasion rather than invade the whole country.— invasion rather than invade the whole country. invasion rather than invade the whole count . ~ . , ., whole country. whatever you call it, it is an invasion _ whole country. whatever you call it, it is an invasion period. _ whole country. whatever you call it, it is an invasion period. and - whole country. whatever you call it, it is an invasion period. and it - whole country. whatever you call it, it is an invasion period. and it is - it is an invasion period. and it is a wet _ it is an invasion period. and it is a wet it — it is an invasion period. and it is a wet it is — it is an invasion period. and it is a wet it is a _ it is an invasion period. and it is a war. it is a violation of international territorial accords. and not— international territorial accords. and not acceptable. the consequences will he _ and not acceptable. the consequences will he so _ and not acceptable. the consequences will he so as— and not acceptable. the consequences will be so as to outweigh the pros and the _ will be so as to outweigh the pros and the profit that he hopes to gain from it. _ and the profit that he hopes to gain from it. i_ and the profit that he hopes to gain from it, ijust think that he can calculate — from it, ijust think that he can calculate quite well when he has lined _ calculate quite well when he has lined up — calculate quite well when he has lined up against him to stay away from _ lined up against him to stay away from the — lined up against him to stay away from the ultimate threat of occupying the ukraine. he got away with crimea at a time or we were really— with crimea at a time or we were really paying attention, but the next _ really paying attention, but the next step is a whole different ball game _ next step is a whole different ball game and — next step is a whole different ball game and i don't think it's likely to happen — game and i don't think it's likely to happen in the immediate future. so, to happen in the immediate future. so. i_ to happen in the immediate future. so. ithink— to happen in the immediate future. so, i think he will refrain from it

and his— so, i think he will refrain from it and his own _ so, i think he will refrain from it and his own mind.— so, i think he will refrain from it and his own mind. thank you very much indeed. _ and his own mind. thank you very much indeed. very _ and his own mind. thank you very much indeed. very good - and his own mind. thank you very much indeed. very good to - and his own mind. thank you very much indeed. very good to have i and his own mind. thank you very i much indeed. very good to have you all what this. well that's all we have time for this week, many thanks to all my guests — thomas kielinger — roya nikkeh and stephanie baker and thanks too to you for watching —please dojoin us on dateline again next week — same time, same place. goodbye. hello there. with some sleet even in southern parts this morning, it was a hint it was going to be a cold day, and we've had snow showers further north and west. and that cold arctic air stays

with us through the night, so widely frosty and there are some warnings out. you can find out more on the website. but the satellite picture earlier just shows you where those showers have been packing in — northern and western areas — sleet, snow, hail and thunder as well, and that will continue through this evening. but in between, clear skies, temperatures are tumbling away. it will turn frosty in many areas, even in the north and west ahead of this approaching weather front, which willjust top up the snow levels because the snow showers will continue in the north as well, so quite treacherous in places, particularly where the surfaces are damp and where the showers continue with the ice risk there. so a cold start saturday morning, but a bright start in southern and eastern areas close to this area of high pressure. but you can see these tightly—packed isobars. it's going to be a windy weekend and we'll return to the atlantic wind flow, so bringing in, or returning, the milder air across the british isles as we go through saturday. the far north sees the cold air returning later in the day and there's still that snow risk, as we've talked about,

on this weather front as it pushes its way eastwards. eventually sweeping that cold air out of the way, pushing further south. i think southern and eastern areas may well escape — dry, bright morning sunshine, increasing cloud and wind, though, making it feel chilly. and it will be a windy day with gales, even severe gales in the north and the west closer to that area of low pressure. so it isn't going to feel that much milder than it has done today, but nine or ten is a little bit higher than today. but the cold air does return to the north during the evening behind our weather front, so you can see how our temperatures are see—sawing. that rain pushes its way southwards, but it may well linger in southern areas into sunday morning. there's a question mark about how quickly it will clear away, but still a cold night with some frost further north and some further snow showers to come here or wintry showers.

then as we get towards sunday morning, there's that weather front with us in southern areas still and perhaps hanging around in the south and the west. quite a bit of cloud, therefore, lingering, further wintry showers gathering in the north and west, and windy. we could even have gales through the english channel during the course of sunday. still feeling pretty cold as well — temperatures only five to ten degrees celsius. as ever, there's more on the website.

this is bbc news i'm ben brown. the headlines downing street insists borisjohnson is still in control —after another tory mp calls on him to go — and the resignation of a fifth downing st adviser. a cabinet colleague came to his defence. i believe that the best thing for the country is for the prime minister to continue and i think he is doing a greatjob. a spectacle in beijing to mark the opening of the winter olympics — but fewer world leaders attend because of claims of human rights abuses by president xi's government. china and russia's presidents meet as the two countries move closer in the face of western pressure and pledge to oppose further nato expansions. a court orders checks on food and agricultural goods from britain to northern ireland must continue for now.