this is bbc news with me, nancy kacungira. our latest headlines. ahead of the opening ceremony of the winter olympics, china's president, xijinping, met his russian counterpart vladimir putin and gave his support to moscow's security and foreign policy aims. the official opening — at the bird's nest stadium in beijing — was toned—down, due to covid restrictions. downing street insists boris johnson is still in control, after another conservative mp called on the prime minister to step down. the former minister, nick gibb, says that his constituents remain furious about what he called double standards in the observance of covid rules. emergency workers in morocco say they're hopeful that they'll reach a five—year—old boy trapped for four days in a deep well. the child, who's called rayan, slid more than 30 metres into the narrow shaft on tuesday while his father was repairing it. now on bbc news, it's time for the media show.

hello, i'm ros atkins. welcome to this week's media show. we're going to talk about bbc three because it's back as a linear television channel six years after the bbc decided it shouldn't be one of those, and we'll talk about spotify and joe rogan. he's in the middle of a storm over covid misinformation that may have been on his podcast, and some people are saying, should spotify really be funding content like that? we will get into all the issues that raises. let me introduce you to our guests. we have elizabeth dwoskin, silicon valley correspondent at the washington post, jake kanter, media correspondent at the times, rosanna pound—woods, who's producer of the catch—up on bbc three, and batya ungar—sargon, deputy opinion editor on newsweek. and, batya, iwonder, you commission lots of opinion pieces.

will you be commissioning something onjoe rogan? yeah, absolutely. at newsweek, we really try to represent the full breadth of opinion relevant to americans. so, we're going to have pieces on rogan from an independent media point of view, we're going to have pieces from that sort of disinformation point of view, we have pieces talking about how this story is about the culture wars, the class wars, the race wars — so really trying to get at that story from all points of view. we'll return to spotify and joe rogan in a moment, but let's first of all spend a bit of time closer to home, because bbc three is back as a traditional tv channel and its controller, fiona campbell, has been explain why. so, our channel is an additional signal. it's a really loud noise in which we can place our most successful shows and launch new talent from. it's a place from which we can shout and say, "this is the place for you, and once you switch on, you can relax and see your world and your struggles reflected." there is obviously evidence

as well in the industry. enders have done some research and nielsen in america have done some research that shows that tv is still used for watching cable and free—to—air services. it is still a real moment. the bbc gathers 5 million people to watch green planet live on bbc one, the apprentice is still a really big live viewing experience for young audiences. tv provides a moment for people to be together and drive conversation, where people want to share things together at a specific moment in time. just look at strictly. jake kanter, media correspondent at the times, are you convinced? well, i think, much- like eating with my ex, which was a key show - on relaunch night yesterday, there were some people - who were quite happy to see an old flame, and others- who are less thrilled, i think. i think the first thing . to say is that its return is an acknowledgement - from the bbc that taking it off air in 2016 was a huge mistake, and i'm not sure that bringing l

it back now will necessarilyi right that wrong for various reasons because other services such as netflix have _ caught up and overtaken the bbc in some areas. i but, given the arguments that fiona campbell was making, if we accept that they are persuasive, why weren't they persuasive six years ago when other people were making just the same arguments for not getting rid of it in the first place? well, i think what's changed between now and then - is the bbc's realised that it's got an existential crisis - in terms of the audience, i and this is its big play to try and win them back, in some respects. l now, you can talk about the mechanics of that i and whether it'll work or not. fiona herself — fiona campbell, the controller of bbc — - has talked about it enhancing the sort of content _ discovery ecosystem. in other words, that. means another screen through which young people can engage with bbc content, -

and hopefully, that then points them back to iplayer, - where they're recommended other shows that they may enjoy. - but i think one of the bigi questions of her decisions is that bbc three is coming back with a lower budget. budget than when it went dark, and that to some . is quite unpardonable. it shows to the people whoj believe in this that the bbc is not as committed to young audiences as it should be, i and if it was committed to young audiences, iti would restore the budget- and increase it with inflation. elizabeth, let's bring you in here, because you're the silicon valley correspondent for the washington post. i wonder what your thoughts are as you listen to jake and me discuss the bbc bringing back a linear tv channel. presumably, there will be some people in silicon valley who presumably, there will be some people in silicon valley who might raise an eyebrow at that. well, i think in silicon valley right now, there'sjust an enormous amount of experimentation on different content models, and certainly, we have traditional media...

it's still very much suffering from being in the wake of streaming services and the proliferation of streaming services. but also, the bbc is a huge brand, and when you're an enormous brand, a powerful brand, then you have the freedom to experiment, and these powerful brands don't always do so and they end up following the startups. but, you know... when you're a powerful brand, you already have a huge built—in audience that may follow you to your next developments, and you should capitalise on that. now, the bbc is no doubt a powerful brand, jake, but it's got less money, and it's supposed to be saving money in closing services. we heard from tim davie, the director general, that some services will have to go, but how does he square that declaration with bringing a service like this back? well, i don't think he does, really _ well, i don't think he does, really i_ well, i don't think he does, really. i think _ well, i don't think he does, really. i think this - well, idon't think he does, really. i think this is- well, i don't think he does,

really. i think this is really. really. i think this is really awkwardly— really. i think this is really awkwardly for— really. i think this is really awkwardly for the - really. i think this is really awkwardly for the bbc. i really. i think this is really- awkwardly for the bbc. that's not necessarily _ awkwardly for the bbc. that's not necessarily a _ awkwardly for the bbc. that's not necessarily a problem - awkwardly for the bbc. that's not necessarily a problem of. not necessarily a problem of its own _ not necessarily a problem of its own making. _ not necessarily a problem of its own making. yes, - not necessarily a problem of its own making. yes, you'rej its own making. yes, you're completely— its own making. yes, you're completely right, _ its own making. yes, you're completely right, the - its own making. yes, you're completely right, the bbc. its own making. yes, you're l completely right, the bbc has 'ust completely right, the bbc has just had — completely right, the bbc has just had his _ completely right, the bbc has just had his licence _ completely right, the bbc has just had his licence refrozen. just had his licence refrozen for the _ just had his licence refrozen for the next _ just had his licence refrozen for the next two _ just had his licence refrozen for the next two years - just had his licence refrozenj for the next two years which will equate _ for the next two years which will equate to _ for the next two years which will equate to a _ for the next two years which will equate to a funding - will equate to a funding shortfall— will equate to a funding shortfall of— will equate to a funding shortfall of around - will equate to a funding shortfall of around £1.4j shortfall of around {1.4 billion_ shortfall of around {1.4 billion over— shortfall of around {1.4 billion over the - shortfall of around {1.4 billion over the next. shortfall of around £1.4j billion over the next six shortfall of around {1.4 - billion over the next six years or so — billion over the next six years or s0~ while _ billion over the next six years or so. while doing _ billion over the next six years or so. while doing that, - billion over the next six years or so. while doing that, it's. or so. while doing that, it's saying _ or so. while doing that, it's saying it's _ or so. while doing that, it's saying it's going _ or so. while doing that, it's saying it's going to - or so. while doing that, it's saying it's going to come i or so. while doing that, it's- saying it's going to come under threat, — saying it's going to come under threat, and _ saying it's going to come under threat, and it's— saying it's going to come under threat, and it's doing _ saying it's going to come under threat, and it's doing that- saying it's going to come under threat, and it's doing that at. threat, and it's doing that at the same _ threat, and it's doing that at the same time _ threat, and it's doing that at the same time as— threat, and it's doing that at the same time as launchingl threat, and it's doing that atl the same time as launching a channel _ the same time as launching a channel i_ the same time as launching a channel. i think— the same time as launching a channel. i think the - the same time as launching a channel. i think the timing i the same time as launching a channel. i think the timing is| channel. i think the timing is awkward _ channel. i think the timing is awkward. but _ channel. i think the timing is awkward. but for— channel. i think the timing is awkward. but for the - channel. i think the timing is awkward. but for the bbc's i awkward. but for the bbc's sake, — awkward. but for the bbc's sake, i_ awkward. but for the bbc's sake, ithink— awkward. but for the bbc's sake, i think supporters . awkward. but for the bbc's l sake, i think supporters have to keep — sake, i think supporters have to keep in _ sake, i think supporters have to keep in mind _ sake, i think supporters have to keep in mind the - sake, i think supporters have to keep in mind the success. sake, i think supporters have. to keep in mind the success of the organisation _ to keep in mind the success of the organisation will— to keep in mind the success of the organisation will rely - to keep in mind the success of the organisation will rely on i the organisation will rely on it attracting _ the organisation will rely on it attracting new— the organisation will rely on it attracting new audiences, and — it attracting new audiences, and therefore, _ it attracting new audiences, and therefore, new- it attracting new audiences, - and therefore, new generations of licence for _ and therefore, new generations of licence for repairs. _ and therefore, new generations of licence for repairs. that's - of licence for repairs. that's why— of licence for repairs. that's why it's _ of licence for repairs. that's why it's bbc_ of licence for repairs. that's why it's bbc three - of licence for repairs. that's why it's bbc three play- of licence for repairs. that's why it's bbc three play is i why it's bbc three play is important _ why it's bbc three play is important-— why it's bbc three play is important. part of that for younger — important. part of that for younger audiences - important. part of that for younger audiences is - important. part of that for younger audiences is a - important. part of that forl younger audiences is a new programme called the catch up.

here's some of the first edition. here's some of the first edition-— here's some of the first edition. , , ., edition. next up, several conservative _ edition. next up, several conservative mps - edition. next up, several conservative mps have i edition. next up, several. conservative mps have told edition. next up, several- conservative mps have told the bbc they're unsure whether or not to back the mp. —— the pm. sue gray says during the pandemic, there were... herfull report will her full report will be rep release at a later save. the lead producer _ release at a later save. the lead producer is _ release at a later save. the lead producer is rosanna, who is with us. i know that before you even started putting a programme together, you did a lot of research about what the younger people wants from the news. ~ . . younger people wants from the news. ~ ., ., ., , younger people wants from the news. . ., ., ., , news. we have a really good team and — news. we have a really good team and the _ news. we have a really good team and the audience - news. we have a really good l team and the audience section of the — team and the audience section of the bbc who put together focus — of the bbc who put together focus groups for us. they found real people from across the uk, and in _ real people from across the uk, and in that— real people from across the uk, and in that 16—24 —year—old age

grouo — and in that 16—24 —year—old age grouo i— and in that 16—24 —year—old age group. i think it's kind of, that's what we're seeing on our timelines _ that's what we're seeing on our timelines. they found some real people. — timelines. they found some real people, and did a lot of research and found they wanted things— research and found they wanted things explaining to them in a slightly— things explaining to them in a slightly not patronising way. and that's the assumption they've _ and that's the assumption they've been following ongoing stories — they've been following ongoing stories and more sense of content _ stories and more sense of content for them. one section that— content for them. one section that stood out was someone saying — that stood out was someone saying every time they tune into— saying every time they tune into the _ saying every time they tune into the normal news or the typical— into the normal news or the typical news, they felt like they've _ typical news, they felt like they've missed 1 million episodes. they've missed1 million episodes— they've missed1 million eisodes. . ., episodes. other particular stories that _ episodes. other particular stories that they - episodes. other particular stories that they were - episodes. other particular. stories that they were saying they wanted you to cover, subject areas they didn't want to hear about.— to hear about. what was the most interesting _ to hear about. what was the most interesting and - to hear about. what was the i most interesting and research was you — most interesting and research was you would imagine a really easy— was you would imagine a really easy way— was you would imagine a really easy way was to attract the audience would be putting in lots of— audience would be putting in

lots of celebrity stories and entertainment stories and a lot of the — entertainment stories and a lot of the feedback was, we've already— of the feedback was, we've already had that on social media _ already had that on social media. the bbc's not telling us anything — media. the bbc's not telling us anything new. if there's a reason _ anything new. if there's a reason to do it and entertainment story, if it's old, — entertainment story, if it's old. why— entertainment story, if it's old, why bother? a lot of young people — old, why bother? a lot of young people interested in hearing more — people interested in hearing more about politics, international stories have a lot of — international stories have a lot of hunger for more information. the idea being that— information. the idea being that you _ information. the idea being that you knew about the news and you — that you knew about the news and you felt informed, you can feel confident to explain to your— feel confident to explain to your friend or to a colleague and — your friend or to a colleague and feel— your friend or to a colleague and feel smarter.— and feel smarter. here's my question. — and feel smarter. here's my question, rosanna. - and feel smarter. here's my question, rosanna. if- and feel smarter. here's my question, rosanna. if all. and feel smarter. here's my| question, rosanna. if all that is true, why would you then make a tv programme? why would you not make digital content place where we know people of that age are spending a lot of time? i that age are spending a lot of time? ~ that age are spending a lot of time? ,, . ., , that age are spending a lot of time? ,, _, , ., time? i think it comes into what you _ time? i think it comes into what you were _ time? i think it comes into what you were saying - time? i think it comes into i what you were saying before about — what you were saying before about the need for a linear

channel— about the need for a linear channel and the audience is helping _ channel and the audience is helping to snag. the research has found _ helping to snag. the research has found there is an app a site — has found there is an app a site out— has found there is an app a site out there for linear tv. people _ site out there for linear tv. people want to tune in every week— people want to tune in every week to _ people want to tune in every week to drag race or normal people — week to drag race or normal people. if you stick a four minute _ people. if you stick a four minute bulleted in, you're more likely— minute bulleted in, you're more likely to — minute bulleted in, you're more likely to get people. jake kanter, as _ likely to get people. jake kanter, as you _ likely to get people. jake kanter, as you listen, . likely to get people. jake| kanter, as you listen, are likely to get people. i—s kanter, as you listen, are you convinced or do you think perhaps the news audience has moved away from tv while bbc three wasn't there? i moved away from tv while bbc three wasn't there?— three wasn't there? i found these absolutely _ three wasn't there? i found l these absolutely fascinating, three wasn't there? i found i these absolutely fascinating, i think— these absolutely fascinating, i think there's _ these absolutely fascinating, i think there's some _ these absolutely fascinating, i think there's some evidence l think there's some evidence from — think there's some evidence from last— think there's some evidence from last night— think there's some evidence from last night to _ think there's some evidence from last night to show - think there's some evidence from last night to show that| from last night to show that the research is _ from last night to show that the research is correct - from last night to show that. the research is correct because if you _ the research is correct because if you look— the research is correct because if you look at _ the research is correct because if you look at drag _ the research is correct because if you look at drag racing, - if you look at drag racing, which _ if you look at drag racing, which premiered - if you look at drag racing, which premiered last- if you look at drag racing, i which premiered last night, it did really— which premiered last night, it did really well. _ which premiered last night, it did really well. his _ which premiered last night, it did really well. his arrival - did really well. his arrival channel— did really well. his arrival channel targeted - did really well. his arrival channel targeted at - did really well. his arrival| channel targeted at young audiences _

when it was on bbc one, it was only— when it was on bbc one, it was only 2% — when it was on bbc one, it was only 2% of— when it was on bbc one, it was only 2% of its _ when it was on bbc one, it was only 2% of its audience - when it was on bbc one, it was only 2% of its audience 16—34. i only 2% of its audience 16—34. you _ only 2% of its audience 16—34. you can— only 2% of its audience 16—34. you can see _ only 2% of its audience 16—34. you can see bbc— only 2% of its audience 16—34. you can see bbc three, - only 2% of its audience 16—34. you can see bbc three, it's i you can see bbc three, it's immediate... _ you can see bbc three, it's immediate... more- you can see bbc three, it's immediate... more young i immediate... more young audience _ immediate... more young audience. you _ immediate... more young audience. you would - immediate... more young| audience. you would hope immediate... more young - audience. you would hope they stumble — audience. you would hope they stumble across _ audience. you would hope they stumble across a _ audience. you would hope they stumble across a news - audience. you would hope they| stumble across a news bulletin. than _ stumble across a news bulletin. than work — stumble across a news bulletin. than work goes _ stumble across a news bulletin. than work goes on. _ stumble across a news bulletin. than work goes on. after - stumble across a news bulletin. than work goes on. after you i than work goes on. after you speak to us, you are producing the next bulletin.— speak to us, you are producing the next bulletin. some attempt to exlain the next bulletin. some attempt to explain what _ the next bulletin. some attempt to explain what leveling - the next bulletin. some attempt to explain what leveling up - to explain what leveling up means~ _ to explain what leveling up means. perhaps without using those — means. perhaps without using those words or sneaking them in there. _ those words or sneaking them in there. trut— those words or sneaking them in there, but what's the money going — there, but what's the money going to _ there, but what's the money going to mean for different parts — going to mean for different parts of— going to mean for different parts of england mostly. i think— parts of england mostly. i think we will take a look at what's _ think we will take a look at what's been happening over the last 24— what's been happening over the last 24 hours. we're in the middle _ last 24 hours. we're in the middle of— last 24 hours. we're in the middle of the africa cup of nations— middle of the africa cup of nations semifinal, so we have to think— nations semifinal, so we have to think very carefully about our audience. that plays into

it heavily~ _ our audience. that plays into it heavily-— our audience. that plays into it heavil. ., ., ,, it heavily. thanks for speaking to us during — it heavily. thanks for speaking to us during a _ it heavily. thanks for speaking to us during a very _ it heavily. thanks for speaking to us during a very busy - it heavily. thanks for speaking to us during a very busy week. you can see her programme later on bbc three on the tv. it hasn't been there for the last six years. that the relaunch of bbc three is a linear tv channel, but let's turn now to what is the biggest media squabble of the week. surely this is the first time on the media show we've had the story with neil young, joni mistral, and joe rogan. help me out on this. for people coming to the story fresh, what's happened in the last few days concerning those different characters? well, you have the most popular pots captured in the united states. audience of ii pots captured in the united states. audience of 11 million. he leans to the right and has some controversial guests who are very much out of mandatory thinking and have said some

very offensive things as well. and also promoted misinformation about covid. things like, i guess ted said, a common anti—vaxxer who said americans have been hypnotised into wearing mass —— a guest had said. he himself has questioned whether young people need to take the vaccine, and he doesn't think you need to take it if you've already had covid, which is not what medical experts said. on and on and on and on, there's been tonnes of expensive material. and he has a statement that he's not anti—vax, butjust explain to us why concerns aboutjoe rogan and covid wishart 's new, why have they escalated?— escalated? they started escalating _ escalated? they started escalating a _ escalated? they started escalating a couple - escalated? they started i escalating a couple weeks escalated? they started - escalating a couple weeks ago when there was a letter from 250 concerned scientists

worried about rogan's comments, but then it really cook—off when neil young —— took off, large institutions in the music industry, he said he would pull his music. joni mitchell follow him yesterday. said she would be no longer contributing. internally as well, spotify�*s employee base, which has long beenin employee base, which has long been in crisis over rogan, they're having a town hall over this su. ~ this su. when neil young offered the _ this su. when neil young offered the option, - this su. when neil young | offered the option, spotify this su. when neil young - offered the option, spotify has chosen rogan. this is a man who's become a podcasting phenomenon. there are millions of downloads for everything about gas. let me give you an idea of what is podcasts are like. sometimes the conversations can be over three

hours. here's a little of one with elon musk last year which eventually drifted on to the question of the human race beyond earth.— question of the human race beyond earth. could you call and died the _ beyond earth. could you call and died the gallon - beyond earth. could you call and died the gallon he? - and died the gallon he? absolutely.— and died the gallon he? absolutel . ., ., , ., absolutely. you would start with mars — absolutely. you would start with mars and _ absolutely. you would start with mars and use - absolutely. you would start with mars and use morris i absolutely. you would startj with mars and use morris to jump— with mars and use morris to jump off— with mars and use morris to jump off to— with mars and use morris to jump off to all— with mars and use morris to jump off to all these - with mars and use morris to jump off to all these other i jump off to all these other planets. _ jump off to all these other planets, that— jump off to all these other planets, that it _ jump off to all these other planets, that it places- jump off to all these other. planets, that it places there? yes. _ planets, that it places there? yes. kind _ planets, that it places there? yes. kind of— planets, that it places there? yes, kind of like... _ planets, that it places there? yes, kind of like... yeah. - yes, kind of like... yeah. that's— yes, kind of like... yeah. that's something to consider. let's bring you in here, jake kanter. can you explain to us why spotify business initially based around music streaming would move so heavily into a podcasting with exclusive deal with joe rogan? podcasting with exclusive deal with joe rogan?— with joe rogan? podcasting is boomin: with joe rogan? podcasting is booming at — with joe rogan? podcasting is booming at the _ with joe rogan? podcasting is booming at the moment. - with joe rogan? podcasting is booming at the moment. joel booming at the moment. joe rogan — booming at the moment. joe rogan is _ booming at the moment. joe rogan is perhaps— rogan is perhaps spotify's biggest _ rogan is perhaps spotify's biggest bet _ rogan is perhaps spotify's biggest bet in _ rogan is perhaps spotify's biggest bet in this - rogan is perhaps spotify's biggest bet in this area. i rogan is perhaps spotify's i biggest bet in this area. they spent — biggest bet in this area. they spent a — biggest bet in this area. they spent a reported _ biggest bet in this area. they spent a reported £100 - biggest bet in this area. they. spent a reported £100 million, sorry. — spent a reported £100 million, sorry. $100 _ spent a reported £100 million, sorry, $100 million, _ spent a reported £100 million,

sorry, $100 million, tying - spent a reported £100 million, sorry, $100 million, tying himl sorry, $100 million, tying him down _ sorry, $100 million, tying him down and — sorry, $100 million, tying him down and i— sorry, $100 million, tying him down. and i think— sorry, $100 million, tying him down. and i think it _ sorry, $100 million, tying him down. and i think it speaks i sorry, $100 million, tying him down. and i think it speaks to| down. and i think it speaks to the growing _ down. and i think it speaks to the growing streaming - down. and i think it speaks to the growing streaming laws. down. and i think it speaks to. the growing streaming laws and audio. — the growing streaming laws and audio, ultimately— the growing streaming laws and audio, ultimately spotify - the growing streaming laws and audio, ultimately spotify has i audio, ultimately spotify has determined _ audio, ultimately spotify has determined that _ audio, ultimately spotify has determined that exclusivity. determined that exclusivity over — determined that exclusivity over r0gan _ determined that exclusivity over rogan is— determined that exclusivity over rogan is more - determined that exclusivityl over rogan is more valuable than the _ over rogan is more valuable than the music— over rogan is more valuable than the music of— over rogan is more valuable than the music of neil - than the music of neil young. it's similar to _ than the music of neil young. it's similar to what _ than the music of neil young. it's similar to what we've - than the music of neil young. | it's similar to what we've seen in television. _ it's similar to what we've seen in television, television - in television, television companies _ in television, television companies like - in television, television companies like netflixl in television, television i companies like netflix and disney— companies like netflix and disney spending _ companies like netflix and disney spending billions . companies like netflix and j disney spending billions of dollars— disney spending billions of dollars on— disney spending billions of dollars on original- dollars on original programming. - dollars on original- programming. exclusive dollars on original— programming. exclusive shows will bring — programming. exclusive shows will bring audiences _ programming. exclusive shows will bring audiences to - programming. exclusive shows will bring audiences to their. will bring audiences to their platform _ will bring audiences to their platform and _ will bring audiences to their platform and make - will bring audiences to their platform and make sure - will bring audiences to their. platform and make sure they subscribe _ platform and make sure they subscribe. we _ platform and make sure they subscribe. we see _ platform and make sure they subscribe. we see the - platform and make sure they subscribe. we see the samei subscribe. we see the same phenomenon— subscribe. we see the same phenomenon in— subscribe. we see the same phenomenon in audio, - subscribe. we see the same phenomenon in audio, and i phenomenon in audio, and that's whyjoe _ phenomenon in audio, and that's whyjoe r0gan— phenomenon in audio, and that's whyjoe r0gan is— phenomenon in audio, and that's whyjoe rogan is so— phenomenon in audio, and that's whyjoe rogan is so important. whyjoe rogan is so important to spotify. _ whyjoe rogan is so important to spotify, because _ whyjoe rogan is so important to spotify, because he's - whyjoe rogan is so important to spotify, because he's like i whyjoe rogan is so important to spotify, because he's like a beacon — to spotify, because he's like a beacon he's— to spotify, because he's like a beacon. he's a _ to spotify, because he's like a beacon. he's a huge - to spotify, because he's like a beacon. he's a huge figure - to spotify, because he's like a beacon. he's a huge figure inl beacon. he's a huge figure in this— beacon. he's a huge figure in this area _ beacon. he's a huge figure in this area-— this area. and it's part of this area. and it's part of this as well, _ this area. and it's part of this as well, elizabeth, i this as well, elizabeth, despite the fact spotify is one of the most popular streaming services in the world, it's still struggling to make money off streaming music.—

off streaming music. exactly. soti off streaming music. exactly. spotify went _ off streaming music. exactly. spotify went public _ off streaming music. exactly. spotify went public in - off streaming music. exactly. spotify went public in 2018, i spotify went public in 2018, and is trying to transform itself into a publisher. there are media companies. it's the same way when the washington post releases a podcast. we edit the content and we have control over it. it's associated our brand. this is a big transition. basically from being a platform to being a straight up media company, and with that comes lots of responsibilities. also, there is revenue there. right now, advertising revenue is a really small portion of spotify's revenue. they make only about 15%. they make much more from subscriptions. but when you look at the at prices that adds in an exclusive podcasts can generate, you start to understand also why they're going into it. notjust differentiation, so you make

these exclusive deals with these exclusive deals with these really popular podcaster 's. because of that, you can command really high at prices of thumb so command really high at prices of thum ,., ,, command really high at prices ofthum ., , of thumb so you get the money in return. _ of thumb so you get the money in return, but— of thumb so you get the money in return, but with _ of thumb so you get the money in return, but with that - of thumb so you get the money in return, but with that comes l in return, but with that comes responsibility. let's speak about that with marianna spring. joe rogan has been accused of a range of things. just guide us through some of the areas he's got involved in. one of the biggest concerns when — one of the biggest concerns when it— one of the biggest concerns when it comes to... sorry, i have — when it comes to... sorry, i have a — when it comes to... sorry, i have a very— when it comes to... sorry, i have a very croaky throat. one of the — have a very croaky throat. one of the biggest concerns has actually— of the biggest concerns has actually been the french guessed that he is featuring on the programmes, and they become a gateway— the programmes, and they become a gateway to conspiratorial mentalities. he had quite a prominent anti—vaxxer into insert _ prominent anti—vaxxer into insert who had promoted a

number— insert who had promoted a number of false claims and is suggesting people should not have — suggesting people should not have it — suggesting people should not have it. one worry is that pe0ple _ have it. one worry is that people tuning into his podcast, which _ people tuning into his podcast, which is — people tuning into his podcast, which is conversational, which is chatty. _ which is conversational, which is chatty, which they might find — is chatty, which they might find more accessible and more interesting and a lot of the accurate _ interesting and a lot of the accurate and more boring information from scientists and experts. — information from scientists and experts, they'll listen to it and — experts, they'll listen to it and go _ experts, they'll listen to it and go and follow—up. they'll google — and go and follow—up. they'll google this anti—vax influence. they— google this anti—vax influence. they quickly find themselves brought into more extreme worldviews. it's the same with different— worldviews. it's the same with different topics from far—right influences, so to speak, or those _ influences, so to speak, or those who have promoted in cell like beliefs as well as about women _ like beliefs as well as about women. rogan's approach to this. _ women. rogan's approach to this. it — women. rogan's approach to this. it risks pushing people towards _ this. it risks pushing people towards this extreme.

i guess that taps into two interesting questions. how does he handle what they say. here's a little of a post thatjoe rogan put on instagram a few days into the story. fine rogan put on instagram a few days into the story.- days into the story. one thing soti days into the story. one thing spotify has — days into the story. one thing spotify has to _ days into the story. one thing spotify has to do _ days into the story. one thing spotify has to do is _ days into the story. one thing spotify has to do is at - days into the story. one thing spotify has to do is at the - spotify has to do is at the beginning _ spotify has to do is at the beginning of— spotify has to do is at the beginning of these - beginning of these controversial- beginning of these - controversial podcasts is to put a — controversial podcasts is to put a disclaimer. _ controversial podcasts is to put a disclaimer. these - put a disclaimer. these opinions _ put a disclaimer. these opinions that— put a disclaimer. these opinions that they - put a disclaimer. these - opinions that they expressed our contrary— opinions that they expressed our contrary to _ opinions that they expressed our contrary to the _ opinions that they expressed our contrary to the opinions i opinions that they expressed i our contrary to the opinions of the consensus _ our contrary to the opinions of the consensus of _ our contrary to the opinions of the consensus of experts. - our contrary to the opinions of i the consensus of experts. also, if there's— the consensus of experts. also, if there's anything _ the consensus of experts. also, if there's anything i— the consensus of experts. also, if there's anything i can - the consensus of experts. also, if there's anything i can do - the consensus of experts. also, if there's anything i can do i - if there's anything i can do i can— if there's anything i can do i can do— if there's anything i can do i can do better, _ if there's anything i can do i can do better, if— if there's anything i can do i can do better, if i _ if there's anything i can do i can do better, if i could - if there's anything i can doll can do better, if i could have experts _ can do better, if i could have experts with _ can do better, if i could have experts with differing - experts with differing opinions. _ experts with differing opinions, i— experts with differing opinions, i would - experts with differing opinions, i would bel experts with differing -

opinions, i would be open to that— opinions, i would be open to that is— opinions, i would be open to than , ., opinions, i would be open to that is that good enough for ou? i that is that good enough for you? i have _ that is that good enough for you? i have to _ that is that good enough for you? i have to create - that is that good enough for you? i have to create some | you? i have to create some misinformation. _ you? i have to create some misinformation. joe - you? i have to create some misinformation. joe rogan| you? i have to create some i misinformation. joe rogan is not conservative, he's a liberal. he's a left to the majority. he's never had an intel on his show. although the people he has are people who were very respected in the medical field were very respected in the medicalfield until they were very respected in the medical field until they fell of the reigning orthodox. people redefined what science is and what the method is. to mean that you can't change. crosstalk people who said that cloth masks don't work had their accounts removed from social media. now that is the consensus of experts because thatis consensus of experts because that is how science works. you float ideas, you question them, you try them and change their

mind. that is the definition of the scientific method. that is what has been under the definition of disinformation, literally science has been sort of legislated out of social media. �* . �* of legislated out of social media. �* , �* ., media. but isn't the point that there is information _ media. but isn't the point that there is information being - there is information being shared via joe rogan's podcast which he doesn't label or challenge in any way as not being backed up by the current evidence that's available, and that's not helpful queens of that's not helpful queens of that what does that even mean? he's an entertainer! he's given that... . he's an entertainer! he's given that... , that... giving the same view that... giving the same view that gets — that... giving the same view that gets disproven - that... giving the same view that gets disproven week - that... giving the same view i that gets disproven week after week. so that gets disproven week after week, y., �* that gets disproven week after week. �* ., week. so you're comfortable with the idea _ week. so you're comfortable with the idea of _ week. so you're comfortable with the idea of him - week. so you're comfortable with the idea of him as - week. so you're comfortable with the idea of him as an i with the idea of him as an entertainer talking with a doctor who is completely out of sync with certain evidence. but a lot of them — sync with certain evidence. elf a lot of them have been proven to be right over time. that's what i feel like nobody is acknowledging, the fact that all of these things we were told were true are no longer true. that is a real problem

because science as we know develops the top quite well... i think this is about class. the liberal mainstream media is catering the democratic party who the pajama set that people buy white—collar jobs, who the pajama set that people buy white—collarjobs, and who the pajama set that people buy white—collar jobs, and joe rogan is promoting... he saying they're not going for medical advice. ., ., ,., , advice. there are two points there. there _ advice. there are two points there. there is _ advice. there are two points there. there is joe - advice. there are two points there. there is joe rogan i there. there isjoe rogan speaking effectively to a section of americans that you don't feel scared to buy other sections of the media. there's the other issue, how does he handle people coming onto his podcast and saying things that are not rooted in available scientific evidence. crosstalk believe me, we do ask them those questions, but i'm interested to know how we assess when something can be stated as being categorically wrong or something is stated as

unknown. �* . wrong or something is stated as unknown. . ., , unknown. after what we find is that comments _ unknown. after what we find is that comments can be - unknown. after what we find is i that comments can be made that are misleading. 0r that comments can be made that are misleading. or something that is— are misleading. or something that is in— are misleading. or something that is in part true and we misuse _ that is in part true and we misuse. so, for instance, there have _ misuse. so, for instance, there have been a _ misuse. so, for instance, there have been a number of false claims — have been a number of false claims about fertility, the suggestion that the vaccine will somehow make you infertile. there'sjust a will somehow make you infertile. there's just a total lack— infertile. there's just a total lack of— infertile. there's just a total lack of scientific evidence. all kinds— lack of scientific evidence. all kinds of experts would say they— all kinds of experts would say they don't even understand by what _ they don't even understand by what mechanism that could happen _ what mechanism that could happen. what we often find is there — happen. what we often find is there is— happen. what we often find is there is a _ happen. what we often find is there is a lack of evidence to back— there is a lack of evidence to back up— there is a lack of evidence to back up claims, and something that is— back up claims, and something that is true will be used to push — that is true will be used to push the _ that is true will be used to push the vaccine. we often see that in— push the vaccine. we often see that in discussions i can podcasts. that in discussions i can podcasts-— that in discussions i can odcasts. �* . , . , podcasts. and briefly, finally, do ou podcasts. and briefly, finally, do you think _ podcasts. and briefly, finally, do you think that _ podcasts. and briefly, finally, do you think that technology | do you think that technology companies, which is what they were initially, are geared up

to handle these editorial challenges? eff to handle these editorial challenges?— to handle these editorial challenges? of course they should be. _ challenges? of course they should be. that's _ challenges? of course they should be. that's what - challenges? of course they should be. that's what it's | should be. that's what it's actually asking. it's entire employee base said let's just evolve some editorial control. just the way any other company like the bbc or the washington post does it. i like the bbc or the washington post does it.— post does it. i have to exert a little bit of — post does it. i have to exert a little bit of control _ little bit of control because we're completely out of time. it's been fantastic talking to all of us. from me and all of the media show team, bye—bye. hello there. snow was a feature of the weather for some parts of the uk on friday, and it continues to feature as part of what is actually quite a varied weekend weather menu.

snow and ice continuing to be an issue particularly in scotland. elsewhere, some rain at times, some brisk winds also some spells of sunshine. the big weather maker for the weekend is this weather front extending all the way from north america across the atlantic towards our shores. this front will bring some outbreaks of rain. there will be some strong winds, but also this front dividing cold air, which will be returning from the north from this mild air, staging a temporary come back down towards the south. this is how saturday shapes up a touch of frost for some to start off. a dry start for much of england and wales, you can see this wet weather on the move southwards as the day wears on, some particularly heavy bursts of rain developing over hills in the west. the south of england likely to stay dry for a good part of the day, northern scotland brightening up with some increasingly frequent snow showers, and a windy day for all, those are the gusts. gusts of 40—60 mph in exposed places in northern scotland. afternoon temperatures, quite a range, three there for stornoway, 10 for london, plymouth

and saint hellier. through saturday night, our weather front continues to journey southwards across northern ireland, it will cling on for a good part of the night, i think. certainly some wet weather crossing england and wales. for scotland, frequent snow showers, we could see up to 15 cm of snow accumulating over high ground. a mild night in the south, a colder one further north, and then we look ahead to sunday. well, this rain could well drag its heels and turn heavy for a time on sunday morning. it may struggle to clear the south of england, but elsewhere, we should see some spells of sunshine through the day, showers continuing, snow showers across high ground in scotland, but those showers even wintry to quite low levels. strongest winds at this stage could be down towards the south with gales likely through the channel. and temperature again quite a range, four in the north, nine or ten further south, maybe 11 for the channel islands. now, as we head into the start of the new week, an area of high pressure not too far away, trying to build its way northwards, a weak frontal system but it is a warm front, so that will bring some milder

air returning from the west, so quite a mild start to the new week. we will see some rain at times, but particularly the further south you are, the week should start on a mostly dry note.

welcome to bbc news. i'm nuala mcgovern. our top stories: a meeting of minds ahead of the winter olympics: china's president xi backs his russian counterpart in opposing the expansion of nato. emergency workers in morocco say they're hopeful of reaching a five—year—old boy who's been trapped for four days in a deep well. hello and welcome to audiences in the uk and around the world. china and russia have announced a new partnership, hailed by president putin as an unprecedented pact of cooperation. china says it'll back russia's foreign policy aims and says it

supports russian demand that nato halt its expansion.