this is bbc news. we will have the headlines and all the main news stories for you at the top of the hour, straight after this programme. welcome straight after this programme. to hardtalk. i am stephen welcome to hardtalk. i am stephen sacco. colombians will elect a new president in 2022. amid a crowded field one candidate has reason to view the coming campaign with mixed emotion. my guest today, ingrid betancourt was running for president 20 years ago when she was captured by farc guerrillas and held captive

in thejungle for more than six years. colombia's guerrilla war is over, and now she's running again, promising a war on corruption. she says she'll finish what she started — is that possible? ingrid betancourt in volatile, thank you to —— welcome to hardtalk. thank you to -- welcome to hardtalk— thank you to -- welcome to hardtalk. ., ~ , ., ., a, hardtalk. thank you for having me, hardtalk. thank you for having me. stephen. _ hardtalk. thank you for having me, stephen, it _ hardtalk. thank you for having me, stephen, it is _ hardtalk. thank you for having me, stephen, it is a _ hardtalk. thank you for having me, stephen, it is a pleasure . me, stephen, it is a pleasure after so many years. it me, stephen, it is a pleasure after so many years.- after so many years. it is, many years _ after so many years. it is, many years since - after so many years. it is, many years since we - after so many years. it is, many years since we last l after so many years. it is, - many years since we last spoke on that, of course, was when you got out ofjungle dvd into

thousand and eight. but i want to begin by taking you back a full 20 years to your running for the presidency in 2002. that was the campaign, of course, during which you were taken and held if by farc guerrillas. it seems extraordinary that you have decided to run again. are you simply revising your own personal trauma by doing so? i think, what i feel i have to do, it is like the vector of my life and it is also a strong thing ifeel with my country. today, colombia has a window of opportunity to change the system. we put an end to very bloodied war and that open the path to another kind of

consciousness and for me, since the beginning, you know, 20 years ago i was battling against corruption and i think, today, it is still the same problem. i mean, colombia has lots of opportunities but even if it is a rich country, colombians are poor. 50% of our citizens are in a situation of hunger. children are not going to school. and this is the result of corruption. so, for me, as he was saying, it is taking the banner where i left it and trying to take colombia with me to this newjourney of freedom from corruption. i do want to get — freedom from corruption. i do want to get into _ freedom from corruption. i do want to get into some - freedom from corruption. i do want to get into some detail of your policy platform and what your policy platform and what you believe you can offer colombians in the course of this interview. but i have to stick with the personal for a

short while because if anybody in the world has been through the most profound trauma it is you. more than six years in the jungle, many of those years in chains, you were physically abused, you tried to escape at least three times and failed. you went through extraordinary hardships. shortly you have what we now call ptsd, post—traumatic stress and i do wonder whether running a presidential campaign is in your own best interest? i think i have done a very good job in trying to fix my emotions, of course i have to deal with the past but the past is also a strength. it past but the past is also a strength-— past but the past is also a strenuth. , ~ ., strength. it gives me knowledge of what other _ strength. it gives me knowledge of what other colombians - strength. it gives me knowledge of what other colombians have l of what other colombians have been suffering. i was living for years under makeshift shed, i was chained, as you said, and

many colombians are, in a way, chained as well. they have to leave the children for hours of slave labour, working in the informality, subject to abuse or working in illegality with drug traffickers and this is never an option. we are chained to this system of corruption and i think i have, i have, of course my scars but i have also the knowledge of what people in my country are suffering and i have the strength in me to fight for them.— have the strength in me to fight for them. you speak of scars and — fight for them. you speak of scars and this _ fight for them. you speak of scars and this is _ fight for them. you speak of scars and this is a _ fight for them. you speak of scars and this is a difficult i scars and this is a difficult question, ingrid, and i should say i have your extraordinary bookin say i have your extraordinary book in front of me that you wrote years ago, even silence has an end, where you are quite candid about what captivity did to you. it was very difficult and you spoke about the way it exposed some of your fragility

and weakness along with the other gives an, one of them, was your very close companion who worked with you. clara rojas and she wrote a book as well and so is one of the american gives you were held with for some time. it must be said, in their books they describe some of your behaviours, a degree of, let's behaviours, a degree of, let's be honest, selfishness that they saw in new, way in which you, in view, held yourself aloof from the rest of the captives which may come under scrutiny again in this election. are you prepared for whatever other candidates might throw at you in terms of reflecting on what happened and what it says about you? you know, i what it says about you? you know. i am _ what it says about you? you know, i am very _ what it says about you? you know, i am very conscious l what it says about you? 7m, know, i am very conscious that the system of abduction we were forced in was an environment where the guerrillas tried to

divide us, tried to put us to confront each other because they needed to divide captives in order to subdue us and to dominate us. we were also living in a difficult situation, with hunger, and i think that, you know, yes, probably we all made the worst of each other but we also met the best of each other and i discovered light in all of us, in all humankind which is our capacity to overcome difficulties through solidarity, by generosity, by confiding in each other and, of course, that is the transition, it is a part of transformation and i know that colombians are aware of this, i know also that politics is hard and i know i have been already under all types of scrutiny and critics

are easy but i am strong and i want to fight for what i believe and critics are a part of politics. believe and critics are a part of militia-— believe and critics are a part of olitics. �* u, of politics. and continuing the theme of scrutiny, _ of politics. and continuing the theme of scrutiny, i _ of politics. and continuing the theme of scrutiny, i guess, i of politics. and continuing the theme of scrutiny, i guess, if| theme of scrutiny, i guess, if we are realistic about it, some colombians will say to themselves that ingrid betancourt showed extraordinary courage and her story is amazing and she has come through it with great resilience. but she did not really spend a lot of her time post captivity in colombia. you have french citizenship as well and you spent an awful lot of time in paris and you said after you came out, quite understandably, that your focus was on rebuilding relationships with your grown—up children and that took you far from colombia for many years. we also studied at oxford. that is hardly the cv of a woman who is focused like a laser beam on winning the presidency of columbia. i

see it in a different light. i think that, of course, wherever i was in my life during these 14 years after my liberation i was always a voice for colombians. i was always advocating my people, i was defending the peace process. i was also active in the reconciliation process with my abductor is which were the ones signing the peace process and i was contributing to this state of mind where i want colombians to be where we can look at each other beyond our confrontation and try to see the humanity in us. but also, i said that i exceed under a different light because the fact i have not beenin because the fact i have not been in colombia active in politics gives me an immense freedom to just see what the others do not see. colombia is a corrupt system and when you see what is going on in the

colombian campaign you can see how everybody throws accusations to each other. i'm not into this because i have not into this because i have not been a part of it. i have not been a part of it. i have no corrupt machinery, as they call it here in colombia, nobody can accuse me of having been benefited by any contract orany been benefited by any contract or any bribe or been benefited by any contract orany bribe orany.... been benefited by any contract or any bribe or any.... so i feeli or any bribe or any.... so i feel i have this authority, in a way, and more than moral authority i feel i have this comprehension and this absolute, you know, certainty that we really need to put an end to corruption.— that we really need to put an end to corruption. but, ingrid, ifi end to corruption. but, ingrid, ifl may. _ end to corruption. but, ingrid, ifl may. as — end to corruption. but, ingrid, ifl may. as you _ end to corruption. but, ingrid, if i may, as you say _ end to corruption. but, ingrid, if i may, as you say you - end to corruption. but, ingrid, if i may, as you say you have l if i may, as you say you have followed colombian politics closely, even if you have not always been living in the country. but in 2018 you did

back, and correct me if i am wrong, i think about the leftist candidate and he is running again and many of the things you say about corruption and about redistributing the wealth of columbia and giving a fair shake to those who have been neglected for so long in colombia, many of those things he says as well and he is running again this time. you chose to lend him your support, you would strengthen his campaign. why don't you do that? that is a very good question and probably if the petrol 2018 was the same as today i would probably be supporting him. but today i would probably be supporting him.— today i would probably be supporting him. but he has transformed _ supporting him. but he has transformed himself - supporting him. but he has transformed himself into . supporting him. but he has. transformed himself into one supporting him. but he has- transformed himself into one of the same, the supports he has for his campaign come from all sorts of corrupt forces. he for his campaign come from all sorts of corrupt forces.- sorts of corrupt forces. he is not here _ sorts of corrupt forces. he is not here to _ sorts of corrupt forces. he is not here to defend _ sorts of corrupt forces. he is not here to defend himself. sorts of corrupt forces. he is | not here to defend himself so sorts of corrupt forces. he is i not here to defend himself so i think it is only fair to recall that he would deny those allegations you just put to him but it seems, if i may say so,

you are throwing allegations of corruption around in a way that does not even work for your own political campaign because you, in january, political campaign because you, injanuary, decided to nominate yourself for a presidential run within this centrist hope coalition but within weeks you then decided to walk away from that coalition, accusing the coalition of corruption. i was not, coalition of corruption. i was not. you _ coalition of corruption. i was not, you know, _ coalition of corruption. i was not, you know, accusing - coalition of corruption. i was not, you know, accusing the| not, you know, accusing the coalition of being corrupt. i was just taking a decision that i think it is a very powerful position to in colombia corruption lives in a grey area and people try to accommodate corruption by denying facts and in the coalition, the centre of our unity was to fight against

the way traditional politics has been done in colombia which is through machinery, machinery as a concept that it is an elective organisation that sticks into politics, they use the elections to get into congress or to get to the presidency or the government and then the aim is to run and get reach and, of course, to get reach and, of course, to get the system of impunity. so they can get their way without jail. i they can get their way without “ail. ., , jail. i get the absolute clarity- _ jail. i get the absolute clarity. wait _ jail. i get the absolute clarity. wait a - jail. i get the absolute j clarity. wait a second, jail. i get the absolute - clarity. wait a second, wait a second- _ clarity. wait a second, wait a second- no. _ clarity. wait a second, wait a second. no, because- clarity. wait a second, wait a second. no, because it- clarity. wait a second, wait a second. no, because it is- second. no, because it is important that you understand that when i took the decision to leave the coalition it is an action. it is notjust a speech and you see my difference with other candidates in colombia, including petrov is that they talk about corruption but they do not act against corruption. he could have done the same as i did, saying that these people

cannot be in my campaign, i do not want their support. no. i understand... crosstalk. i understand... crosstalk. i understand what you are saying but i also understand the realities of politics. what you have done by walking away from this centrist coalition, by also choosing to criticise, as you do, both the leftist coalition and mr petrov who used to support but no longer do and, of course, you are critical of the rightist coalition, what you have got, yourself, as ingrid betancourt is your own, if i may say so, very small party and you do not really have the sort of network, the movement that can make you a credible candidate in this coming national election. how can you, when you are between... when you are behind in the polls expected turn that into a national campaign?— turn that into a national campaign? turn that into a national camaiun? ~ , ~ campaign? well, first, i think it is kind of —

campaign? well, first, i think it is kind of something - campaign? well, first, i think it is kind of something that i it is kind of something that you will need to rethink here. saying that in colombia the only way to do politics is with corruption. why do we expect either the uk or europe to have a moral standard or ethical standard too, you know, to demand from our politicians to be pristine and not to do the same in colombia? i think, in fairness, this is not a normal standard. normal standard is to play fair and politics. that is the fair thing. second, play fair and politics. that is the fairthing. second, i have been doing politics for 30 years and every time i have won my elections i have had people like you saying that i cannot win because i do not have an organisation. i do not want a corrupt organisation. are you saying that i am not 70% in the polls? well, iam in saying that i am not 70% in the polls? well, i am in the third position in the polls. after two weeks all three weeks of

campaigning to all the candidates, all the other candidates, all the other candidates are behind me. so, of course, i have a battle in front of me and i have two get to the second or first place and that is my aim but i am very comfortable that in the time i have been expressing my will of campaigning for colombians that the response and the results are amazing. there is another very obvious factor here. you are a woman. columbia has not had a woman president and i think i am righton saying you are the only serious contender who is female in this coming election. it is colombia ready for a woman president? i colombia ready for a woman president?— colombia ready for a woman resident? ~ ., ., , ., , president? i think colombia is read . president? i think colombia is ready. precisely _ president? i think colombia is ready. precisely because - president? i think colombia is ready. precisely because it. president? i think colombia is ready. precisely because it is| ready. precisely because it is a patriarchal society, precisely because we have corruption, part —— precisely because we have been living in a bloodshed, lots of violence, the feminine vision, the vision

of women into politics will bring oxygen to the country. we can give results, we can give solutions that are different from the ones that normally are designed by a very male kind of standard politics. and this is what i am offering. i want to change, deeply change the culture, change the way we relate to each other, open a path of trust, which is something that we haven't been doing in colombia, and we can reconcile the country. not reconcile the country. not reconcile the country in ideological country, but we can reconcile the country in emotional terms stop and because we have been divided in colombia, not between left and right, but between people that abuse and rob and bribe and steal and cheat, and the

others, 51 million colombians, really do have the same opportunities as you have in europe. we reallyjust want to have the same opportunities and are fighting for that. let’s are fighting for that. let's talk about _ are fighting for that. let's talk about peace - are fighting for that. let's talk about peace in - are fighting for that. let's - talk about peace in colombia. you have always been a great supporter of the government's deal with the farc, that has its roots back in 2016. there is more peace in colombia than there was, but it is still not peaceful. there are other militant groups that are still waging their violent campaigns, people are still losing their lives, including some leading human rights act of us. you, last year, had a pretty extraordinary meeting with some former farc gorillas. i think it was the first time you had met them face—to—face. what was that like? i met them face-to-face. what was that like? ~ ., , , that like? i think it was very important — that like? i think it was very important for _ that like? i think it was very important for me _ that like? i think it was very important for me and - that like? i think it was very important for me and for.

that like? i think it was very | important for me and for the country, because, you see, we have been in this peace process talking aboutjustice, law, talking about justice, law, condemnation, talking aboutjustice, law, condemnation, etc, but at the end of the day what we want is to be able to see what motivated these people to have such an inhumane behaviour to others of their peers. how could a human being chain another to a tree for six years? how could they be abusive? how could they humiliate everyone that were under their custody and enslave them? did under their custody and enslave them? , , ., under their custody and enslave them? , i. ., a them? did you ask them direct- -- _ them? did you ask them direct... crosstalk. - direct... crosstalk. because there is something that one of the leaders as farc said, known as tymoshenko, said last year, to those in every turn from abduction, to those who lost their lives that our hands, to all those burdened by

the years of loved ones�* absences, we beg them to forgive us and we speak today with a sense of shame. do you, today, as a presidential candidate, due for that sense of forgiveness? flit candidate, due for that sense of forgiveness?— candidate, due for that sense of forgiveness? of course, you know, forgiveness _ of forgiveness? of course, you know, forgiveness is _ of forgiveness? of course, you know, forgiveness is a - of forgiveness? of course, you know, forgiveness is a very - know, forgiveness is a very intimate path. you don�*t forgive because people ask you to forgive them, you forgive them because you want to get them because you want to get the past in the past and to let it there. i�*m working in something more profound, i think, which is reconciliation. reconciliation is the moment when you meet the other one that has harmed you and that person doesn�*t try to justify what he did and you try to understand why he did it. it is a communication of souls. and my abductors, which are now congressmen and women, have

difficulties tojust do congressmen and women, have difficulties to just do that extra mile. and the country needs to see them in their sole, not in their political speech or the justification of their ideology, and this is something i�*m working since 0h was liberated and i want to work with them, i believe in human beings, i believe and the light of each of us, and i think this is important for colombia, because we are, in a way, people that they are looking at and our behaviour, the way we speak, the way we are is also a model for other colombians who have been suffering violence, not only political violence or violence because of drug trafficking or of the war... because of drug trafficking or of the war. . ._ because of drug trafficking or of the war... ,, ,, �* ., of the war... crosstalk forgive me, we of the war... crosstalk forgive me. we don't — of the war... crosstalk forgive me, we don't have _ of the war... crosstalk forgive me, we don't have much - of the war... crosstalk forgive me, we don't have much time, l me, we don�*t have much time, sorry, to interrupts, there is a time lag on the line. i want to ask you about one

specific policy area, which uk —— as they can help colombia broaden its peace and corruption, and that is your notion that all narcotics, all illegal drugs, should be legalised as part of a more universal shift of approach towards the drugs war. do you, in any sense, think that is practical politics? would you really do that if you were president? i really do that if you were president?— really do that if you were president? i think that we needed to _ president? i think that we needed to be _ president? i think that we needed to be careful - president? i think that we needed to be careful with| president? i think that we . needed to be careful with the terminology, because legalisation means open markets. we don�*t want that. we want to decriminalising consuming of drugs. and we want to do it because we need to end the trafficking. i mean, today, as you know, drug trafficking is financing the war in colombia, corruption in colombia, corruption in colombia, but also terrorism in the world. and this is a fact. i mean, we have been in the war

on drugs for a0 years with no results, and we have had the best of allies in this war, which is the united states with my sam power of the economics, and we haven�*t been able to destroy this trafficking. so i think that after a0 years we need to begin thinking that we need to begin thinking that we need to begin thinking that we need to give results. and they really think that we need to propose what i think we could call an alliance for progress. remember president kennedy in the 1960s had this programme, an alliance for progress with latin america where they would invest in social means in order to boost prosperity in the subcontinent. i think that if we stop the war on drugs and we take what we are investing, the funds we are investing in chasing drug traffickers, and we and the possibility for them

to get rich with the trafficking of drugs... are 'ust trafficking of drugs... are just want _ trafficking of drugs... are just want to _ trafficking of drugs... are just want to ask - trafficking of drugs... are just want to ask one - trafficking of drugs... are just want to ask one very simple question at the end of all of this, because we have talked about your personal journey and we have talked about your political platform. are you really sure you want to win, given everything that has happened to you? i�*m win, given everything that has happened to you? i'm absolutely ositive, happened to you? i'm absolutely positive. not _ happened to you? i'm absolutely positive, not only _ happened to you? i'm absolutely positive, not only that _ happened to you? i'm absolutely positive, not only that i - happened to you? i'm absolutely positive, not only that i want, i positive, not only that i want, but that i will. positive, not only that i want, but that l will.— but that i will. ingrid betancourt, - but that i will. ingrid betancourt, we - but that i will. ingrid betancourt, we do . but that i will. ingrid - betancourt, we do sadly have but that i will. ingrid _ betancourt, we do sadly have to stop there, but i thank you very much indeed forjoining me from bogota. very much indeed for “oining me from bogota-t from bogota. thank you. thank ou so from bogota. thank you. thank you so much- — hello.

sunday brought more squally winds, heavy flooding rain, and travel disruption, as yet another named storm approached the uk, storm franklin. and by monday morning some of its biggest impacts and disruption can be felt in northern ireland, with the met office amber warning, some gusts of wind along north coast in particular, up around 80 mph, just squeezing the isobars around storm franklin, pushing strong and gusty winds as well across many western coastal areas overnight and into the morning. so you can expect some disruption in the morning and, indeed, through a large part of the day, although the winds are going to be be slowly using. this is where some of the gusts will be at into the morning, the strongest ones in through northern ireland, into western coastal areas, but elsewhere gusting widely 50—60 mph for a time. that is where temperatures will be first thing. now, overnight, wintry showers will give a covering of snow in parts of scotland, northern ireland, northern england, especially but not exclusively into the hills. and this area of mostly rain will clear its way southwards

by the end of the morning and we�*re left with increasing sunshine, the odd shower in northern scotland, along the north sea coast, but many places in afternoon will be dry with sunny spells and these are the afternoon wind gusts by about four o�*clock, notice how much they have come down. so the winds, the strongest winds are going to be easing. by the end of the afternoon may not feel too bad out there with temperatures in double figures. again, the destruction we will have after the storming start, it may even continue after the strongest men�*s heavies. a chilly start on monday night, cloud and patchy rain spreading east, heavier rain putting on towards scotland and northern ireland as tuesday begins, with the wind is picking up again and does developing in places, but from tuesday onwards, although windy at times, the winds are not to be as extreme and severe as they have been. we will see this cold front moving southwards on tuesday with an area of rain, a few wintry showers following behind. after the rain is quite heavy initially through parts of northern england and wales, it weakens as it reaches east and south—east england later in the day.

behind that we have the sunshine, the showers again turning wintry, particularly onto the hills over northern britain, these are tuesday�*s temperatures. by wednesday, there will another weather front moving into northern areas, a chilly start to the south, it will be cold across all parts on thursday, with wintry showers around. and it looks like a fine day to friday before low pressure moves back in for the weekend.

welcome to newsday, reporting live from singapore, i�*m karishma vaswani. the headlines: moves are under way for an international summit to discuss ukraine as the us says it fears an imminent invasion by russia. the queen has tested positive for coronavirus and is said to be experiencing mild symptoms. it comes ahead of her 96th birthday and in her platinum jubilee year. australia opens its borders to fully vaccinated travellers for the first time in almost two years. and after 16 days of competition, the winter 0lympics come to a spectacular close in beijing.