this is bbc news. the headlines: there are fresh accounts of severe casualties and damage on the tenth day of the invasion of ukraine. the mayor of mariupol says his city is simply being destroyed. it is enduring shelling as is kharkiv. the ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy has expressed anger that nato foreign ministers have again ruled out imposing a no—fly zone over the country. he said the failure to act was giving a green light to russian bombings. nato�*s secretary general says that they had a responsibility to ensure that the conflict does not spread to other countries. australia has offered a state funeral to the family of shane warne who's died at the age of 52. australia's prime minister scott morrison has announced a state funeral will be held for the cricketer shane warne, whose death was announced friday at the age of 52. adored by millions of fans worldwide, he was considered by many to be the greatest spin bowler of all time.

now on bbc news, it is time for dateline london. hello, and welcome to the programme which brings together some of the bbc�*s most experienced correspondent clinic with international journalists to write, blog and broadcast to audiences back home from the dateline london. this week, what happens when one of the world's founding nuclear—weapons nations goes aerobics? can a strategic deterrent become a tactical weapon for the battlefield? and is war in europe's future, no longerjust its past. today on the panel, john simpson, is in finland. jeffrey conklin has anchored news programmes in the us and canada and reported from

war zones. us and canada and reported from warzones. in us and canada and reported from war zones. in the studio with me is thomas keeling, who has been explaining the british to german audiences since the 19605, german audiences since the 1960s, a time in both europe and his own country were divided. welcome to all of you, good to have you with us today. i wanted to start, if i could, with you, geoffrey. what lessons do you think president putin has drawn from his previous military ventures which are informing this invasion in ukraine? i think that the lessons, _ invasion in ukraine? i think that the lessons, they - invasion in ukraine? i think that the lessons, they may| invasion in ukraine? i think- that the lessons, they may not be putin's. they may be ours, and they are cautionary lessons that he will stop at nothing if he feels like it. this is a man who is devoid of a moral compass. he does not believe in the geneva convention, the rules of war, cluster bombs are fine with him. just look at aleppo, look at chechnya. he left craters in the earth where those cities stood. and we don't know whether he is going to do that in ukraine, but we do know that he has the willpower, he has the drive, and if he is angry enough he

could well do that. that is really what is terrifying. he couldn't only drive the people out of ukraine, destroy a productive european country in the process, but he could leave nothing left in large areas. and that is just a devastating prospect. we are seeing about, we are seeing it in some cities, in large part, certainly not in the capital, kyiv. we will have to see where this goes. we kyiv. we will have to see where this gem— kyiv. we will have to see where this goes-— this goes. we are barely two weeks into — this goes. we are barely two weeks into this _ this goes. we are barely two weeks into this conflict. - this goes. we are barely two | weeks into this conflict. what impact is all of this having on russia's immediate neighbours, who presumably had made certain assumptions about the way russia would conduct itself, for all the grumbling and noises and the growling from moscow on occasions, that they could be reassured certain rules would not be broken? absolutely. here in finland, for instance, people thought they— for instance, people thought they had a really good relationship going with russia,

a good — relationship going with russia, a good trading relationships, a good _ a good trading relationships, a good political relationship, no real upsets or problems. then suddenly— real upsets or problems. then suddenly there starts to be talk— suddenly there starts to be talk that fenland, like sweden, might— talk that fenland, like sweden, might feel happier being in new — might feel happier being in nato. and immediately, russia threatens them with possible military— threatens them with possible military consequences. 0k, military consequences. ok, maybe _ military consequences. ok, maybe they didn't mean they were — maybe they didn't mean they were going to a more invade, maybe — were going to a more invade, maybe they would draw tanks up to the _ maybe they would draw tanks up to the border, where i am now. but the — to the border, where i am now. but the fact is, it really worried _ but the fact is, it really worried people. and it had to be precise reverse effects of what's — be precise reverse effects of what's presumably president putin— what's presumably president putin wanted. it has encouraged the finns — putin wanted. it has encouraged the finns to think about joining _ the finns to think about joining nato, and a majority of people — joining nato, and a majority of people here, according to the latest — people here, according to the latest opinion poll, want to do that now _ latest opinion poll, want to do that now. so it is an object lesson_ that now. so it is an object lesson in— that now. so it is an object lesson in how —— how not to

conduct _ lesson in how —— how not to conduct relationships with your neighbours. we conduct relationships with your neighbours— conduct relationships with your neighbours. we had an incident on wednesday _ neighbours. we had an incident on wednesday where _ neighbours. we had an incident on wednesday where the - neighbours. we had an incident l on wednesday where the russian air force was in the airspace of the swedish island of goitland, the swedish flew up, there was a bit of a confrontation and it ended peacefully, but perhaps it was a sign that there were lots of ways of tweaking the tail, as it were, of your neighbours, without actually evading them or using aggression. perhaps the biggest change has been in germany's approach. they have almost abandoned decades of policy over this? it is astonishing. - policy over this? it is astonishing. almost | policy overthis? it 3 astonishing. almost overnight, within days, virtually, we threw away all our sacred cows of vertical prudence and so forth. we stopped this nord stream to gas pipeline, first of all, which was to be a main source for our energy supply from russia, but is now gone. it cost tens of billions to build, it isn't going to happen, it isn't going to go into operation. we are sending

military hardware, an unconscionable event, in the olden days, only a few days before the conflict began, it was not thinkable that we would send stinger missiles and anti—tank weapons to the fighters. we have now decided also to eventually upgrade our nato contribution to 2% of the budget every year, for which the american president has fought for years and years, and for putin to convince pacifists germany to turn around, in one fell sweep. we also think again about nuclear energy. we wanted to completely phase out nuclear plants, but is now by a green minister, of all ministers in the cabinet, declaring that no, we will continue to use whatever nuclear plants we still have, for the interim period, untilwe still have, for the interim period, until we find the energy supplies. and economically we are talking about letting germany go into bigger debt, which is another completely unbelievable procedure. this is a country

that was to pay homage to balanced budgets and so forth, and another finance minister comes and says, no, it is an investment in our future, if we accept that. last but not least we join sanctions of the west, including swift sanctions, although there is little exception for germany for payment for the gas and oil we import from russia.— import from russia. even you are so dependent, _ import from russia. even you are so dependent, germany l import from russia. even you | are so dependent, germany is import from russia. even you . are so dependent, germany is so dependent, that makes it even more extraordinary they have been prepared to go this far. absolutely. it is an unknown territory, it is terror incognito. yet the country which is to be so afraid of doing anything out of the ordinary has gone ahead with 2%, 3%, 33%, rather, or more, of people following them. and it is an astonishing about turn. putin's sanctions, they endedin turn. putin's sanctions, they ended in a totally counter—productive sort of fashion. he has achieved the opposite of what he wanted to achieve. , , , w'

opposite of what he wanted to achieve. , , , a , opposite of what he wanted to achieve, , , a , ., achieve. just picking up on that point- _ achieve. just picking up on that point. the _ achieve. just picking up on that point. the accusation| that point. the accusation russia has made is that listening but not hearing was the way the west had dealt with russia over the last few years. and that that fed this resentment that may have contributed to this action. to some extent, do the russians have a point?— have a point? well, i used to think they — have a point? well, i used to think they had _ have a point? well, i used to think they had a _ have a point? well, i used to think they had a point, - think they had a point, actually, after 1991, when marxism leninism collapsed in russia, i did ink in those days there was quite a lot of triumphalism on the western side, generally, but that silly on the american side, that's clinton and other people seemed to want to show, to demonstrate to want to show, to demonstrate to everybody that russia had been defeated, notjust simply had changed its ways. but now, listening to, looking at the kind of things that are being

set in moscow, i'm not sure quiet whether, really, the west�*s part in all this is terribly important. i think he has just terribly important. i think he hasjust got it terribly important. i think he has just got it into his head that nato is an aggressive state, an aggressive group, that america wants to break up russia. no evidence for any of this. but that is what he seems to think. and basically he has this deep, deep resentment against ukraine for having once been part of the russian family, as it were, and now deciding to turn its back on russia and move away. and i think we are really seeing doubt, the punishment for that decision. putin has had weeks, months of isolation for covid. i think he hasjust months of isolation for covid. i think he has just been working away on all this, and

the few people that could have access to him have been encouraging him in doubt. find encouraging him in doubt. and when you _ encouraging him in doubt. and when you think of _ encouraging him in doubt. and when you think of that chilling speech— when you think of that chilling speech he gave on television, two days— speech he gave on television, two days ago, when he said he was not — two days ago, when he said he was not being moved from his conviction— was not being moved from his conviction that the two countries are siblings, as it were, one _ countries are siblings, as it were, one nation, and to think that— were, one nation, and to think that when— were, one nation, and to think that when that is his awareness, but they belong together, to punish him, in this— together, to punish him, in this atrocious fashion, it reminds— this atrocious fashion, it reminds me of a sort of mad reaction _ reminds me of a sort of mad reaction of somebody who, by hook— reaction of somebody who, by hook or— reaction of somebody who, by hook or by— reaction of somebody who, by hook or by crook, is determined to muster— hook or by crook, is determined to muster his power over his neighbouring countries. jeffrey raises the question _ neighbouring countries. jeffrey raises the question of - neighbouring countries. jeffrey raises the question of what - neighbouring countries. jeffrey| raises the question of what can be done about it. in a slightly longer term perspective. i mean, the us representative in nato was talking about changing its long—term force posture, or at least discussing that with the other nato members. that implies that the alliance does not see this as a one—off, that

this is ukraine and that is it. they worry about the implications for the whole border sector of countries immediately around russia, and what lesson putin will learn, therefore what the rest has to learn from that. i therefore what the rest has to learn from that.— learn from that. i think it really picks _ learn from that. i think it really picks up _ learn from that. i think it really picks up on - learn from that. i think it really picks up on the - learn from that. i think it - really picks up on the themes that— really picks up on the themes thatjohn _ really picks up on the themes thatjohn and thomas really picks up on the themes that john and thomas have talked _ that john and thomas have talked about. this is the law of unintended consequences. just because you have an objective in war, doesn't mean you will— objective in war, doesn't mean you will actually achieve that objective, the way that you think _ objective, the way that you think i_ objective, the way that you think. ithink objective, the way that you think. i think nato, it is extraordinary what has happened, extraordinaryjust happened, extraordinary just with— happened, extraordinary just with global sanctions, happened, extraordinaryjust with global sanctions, look at nato, — with global sanctions, look at nato, macron is dismissing it as nato, macron is dismissing it asjust — nato, macron is dismissing it asjust on _ nato, macron is dismissing it asjust on death 's door, donald _ asjust on death 's door, donald trump said it was irrelevant, and now it has come back— irrelevant, and now it has come back and — irrelevant, and now it has come back and found its original purpose, which is bringing western— purpose, which is bringing western countries together to defend — western countries together to defend themselves against the threat — defend themselves against the threat of what was the soviet union— threat of what was the soviet union and now russia, and the consensus _ union and now russia, and the consensus is extraordinary, you are now— consensus is extraordinary, you are now seeing western european countries _ are now seeing western european countries sending troops to the border— countries sending troops to the border of— countries sending troops to the border of eastern european

countries, jet, to support the ukrainian _ countries, jet, to support the ukrainian army, not with western— ukrainian army, not with western or european pilots, i should — western or european pilots, i should say, but that is the problem. nato could do a lot of defending and may well expand as a result of this, into sweden _ as a result of this, into sweden and finland, potentially even _ sweden and finland, potentially even one day into ukraine many years _ even one day into ukraine many years from _ even one day into ukraine many years from now, once we figure out how — years from now, once we figure out how this settles. of course the problem is that they don't want — the problem is that they don't want to— the problem is that they don't want to escalate this, they don't — want to escalate this, they don't want to go to that next levei— don't want to go to that next level and _ don't want to go to that next level and send european troops into support this war. so the outcome, _ into support this war. so the outcome, long—term emotions are higher. _ outcome, long—term emotions are higher. of— outcome, long—term emotions are higher, of course people support— higher, of course people support nato, longer term, will this last? — support nato, longer term, will this last? it may well have some _ this last? it may well have some after—effects. but five or ten years — some after—effects. but five or ten years from now, nato may well — ten years from now, nato may well again — ten years from now, nato may well again be marginalised. but people — well again be marginalised. but people may not forget this. this— people may not forget this. this is— people may not forget this. this is a _ people may not forget this. this is a really traumatic moment. this is a really traumatic moment-— this is a really traumatic moment. ., ., ., , this is a really traumatic moment. ., ., ., moment. you said emotions are hiuh. i moment. you said emotions are high- i have _ moment. you said emotions are high. i have spoken _ moment. you said emotions are high. i have spoken to _ moment. you said emotions are high. i have spoken to people i high. i have spoken to people in the us have said, public opinion is not greatly moved by this at the moment. having seen

american troops coming back from afghanistan only last summer, whether there really is any desire in america to see those trips you have been centred at the moment mobilise? i think that is fair. i don't think— i think that is fair. i don't think there is. i don't think think there is. idon't think that— think there is. i don't think that the _ think there is. i don't think that the trauma of those forever— that the trauma of those forever was, particularly afghanistan, is very fresh, and ithink— afghanistan, is very fresh, and i think also, there is an american perception that this is a european war and it is a european _ is a european war and it is a european problem, and europe is very weit— european problem, and europe is very well equipped to deal with it. america is not rushing to fly across— it. america is not rushing to fly across the ocean, to fly across _ fly across the ocean, to fly across western or eastern europe — across western or eastern europe to support ukraine with bomhers— europe to support ukraine with bombers and troops. i think that— bombers and troops. i think that is— bombers and troops. i think that is very fair to say. the difficulty — that is very fair to say. the difficulty then, _ that is very fair to say. the difficulty then, if _ that is very fair to say. the difficulty then, if it - that is very fair to say. the difficulty then, if it is - that is very fair to say. tie: difficulty then, if it is your is �*s problem, is, how does your express its determination? sanctions are one they will go so far. but in the end, if an aggressor has one territory through his or her aggression,

another country's —— and other countries accept that as the new status quo, and actually they are not able to defend very much. they are not able to defend very much-— they are not able to defend very much. well, as jonathan has said. _ very much. well, as jonathan has said, united _ very much. well, as jonathan has said, united in _ very much. well, as jonathan has said, united in strength l has said, united in strength and — has said, united in strength and alliance, but in itself is and alliance, but in itself is a huge _ and alliance, but in itself is a huge plus, and european nations— a huge plus, and european nations will contribute to the cost — nations will contribute to the cost of — nations will contribute to the cost of nato and so forth... if cost of nato and so forth... if you cost of nato and so forth... you have a cost of nato and so forth... if you have a system where it says an attack on one member is an attack on all members, mutual defence, that is great if you are in the club, but if you are outside the club, at a time like this, is incredibly scary. and if you want stability on the continent, is that something you are going to have to address? it something you are going to have to address?— to address? if you want to continue _ to address? if you want to continue to _ to address? if you want to continue to set _ to address? if you want to | continue to set boundaries to address? if you want to - continue to set boundaries for russia — continue to set boundaries for russia and putin, to go across them — russia and putin, to go across them and _ russia and putin, to go across them and start a tripwire on occasion. _ them and start a tripwire on occasion, which might lead to something bigger, that, i have to say. — something bigger, that, i have to say, you have to add to your miiitary— to say, you have to add to your military posture, an element of containment. you have got to make russia field — you have got to make russia field the _ you have got to make russia field the price of her actions.

so over— field the price of her actions. so over time, hope field the price of her actions. so overtime, hope is field the price of her actions. so over time, hope is coming to ameliorate _ so over time, hope is coming to ameliorate it. it is decades of containment. and george kennan predicted — containment. and george kennan predicted in 1947 that russia will eventually fall of its own weakness internally, cannot sustain _ weakness internally, cannot sustain its domination. sol think— sustain its domination. sol think europeans are faced with needing — think europeans are faced with needing to set boundaries for vladimir— needing to set boundaries for vladimir putin, increase sanctions or whatever, and a containment element, and hope that. _ containment element, and hope that, eventually, no further encroachments by russia will occur — encroachments by russia will occur we _ encroachments by russia will occur. we hope for the best. we cannot— occur. we hope for the best. we cannot be — occur. we hope for the best. we cannot be sure. but if we insist— cannot be sure. but if we insist on— cannot be sure. but if we insist on setting the boundaries that are keeping it for russia, maybe we might deter— for russia, maybe we might deter putin from tearing further _ deter putin from tearing further. , ., ., deter putin from tearing further, ., ., ., further. john, i wonder what our further. john, i wonder what your thoughts _ further. john, i wonder what your thoughts are _ further. john, i wonder what your thoughts are on - further. john, i wonder what your thoughts are on that. l further. john, i wonder what your thoughts are on that. i | your thoughts are on that. i think actually the best hope is

what he said is right, the whole sort of strong jar of putinist roster as with stalinist russia and so on, will simply not be able to take the weight of the top man kind of desires and wishes. and it will come to a juddering halt. i can't see much hope beyond that because, actually, until about the last 10—12 years, until before the adventure in crimea in 2014, when russia simply walked in and took it over, with relatively little serious response from the west, personally i think that is what lies in the hinterland of this particular attack, until that kind of thing is seen to be a

matter of the past instead of the present 41 as well as everything else, i think we have got problems. i have got problems. geoffrey. i think there _ have got problems. geoffrey. i think there is _ have got problems. geoffrey. i think there is also _ have got problems. geoffrey. i think there is also an - have got problems. geoffrey. i think there is also an equation| think there is also an equation internally— think there is also an equation internally in russia. one of the — internally in russia. one of the agendas in crossing the russian _ the agendas in crossing the russian economy and these very harsh— russian economy and these very harsh sanctions in bringing such— harsh sanctions in bringing such hardship is it destabilises the equation that gave — destabilises the equation that gave putin power. russians have lived _ gave putin power. russians have lived that— gave putin power. russians have lived that in the last 20 years and ever _ lived that in the last 20 years and ever. they have material goods. — and ever. they have material goods, they have been able to travel— goods, they have been able to travel to— goods, they have been able to travel to the west and take vacations if they are middle—class, and they really have — middle—class, and they really have a — middle—class, and they really have a kind of —— become a kind of guasi- — have a kind of —— become a kind of quasi— european, the trade—off has been they do not -et trade—off has been they do not get involved in putin's increasingly despite its radical politics. you can live well — radical politics. you can live well if — radical politics. you can live well if you _ radical politics. you can live well if you let me govern the way — well if you let me govern the way i — well if you let me govern the way i want. that is the trade—off. well, that is gone now. — trade—off. well, that is gone now. they— trade—off. well, that is gone now, they are now plunging into hardship. — now, they are now plunging into

hardship, they are rolling back to 1998. — hardship, they are rolling back to 1998, when the country was in a crisis. _ to 1998, when the country was in a crisis, when life was very hard. — in a crisis, when life was very hard. and _ in a crisis, when life was very hard, and suddenly putin, that authority. _ hard, and suddenly putin, that authority, that compact is gone. _ authority, that compact is gone. the hope may be that the people — gone. the hope may be that the people rose up against putin and he — people rose up against putin and he is _ people rose up against putin and he is overthrown or assassinated, something like that. — assassinated, something like that, think there is no evidence that they can happen, he has — evidence that they can happen, he has such fine control. i would _ he has such fine control. i would say, one of the consequences of this that seems almost _ consequences of this that seems almost inevitable is he is not only— almost inevitable is he is not only in— almost inevitable is he is not only in danger of destroying ukraine. _ only in danger of destroying ukraine, but he may well be destroying his own country. russia _ destroying his own country. russia is— destroying his own country. russia is now such a pariah state. _ russia is now such a pariah state. and just a moment happened to me today that i've found _ happened to me today that i've found incredibly moving, eye humped _ found incredibly moving, eye bumped into a russian woman here _ bumped into a russian woman here in— bumped into a russian woman here in london who i know well and have — here in london who i know well and have worked with and just casually— and have worked with and just casually said how are you and she burst _ casually said how are you and she burst into tears and she said — she burst into tears and she said i— she burst into tears and she said i feel so ashamed. they feel— said i feel so ashamed. they feel so— said i feel so ashamed. they feel so guilty. i left russia because it was such a hard place _ because it was such a hard place to— because it was such a hard place to live, but this is something else, i don't know

what — something else, i don't know what to— something else, i don't know what to do. i think this is a feeling _ what to do. i think this is a feeling that is increasingly shared _ feeling that is increasingly shared by russians who are observers in their own country's maniacal mission here. — country's maniacal mission here. and _ country's maniacal mission here. and it is going to leave russia — here. and it is going to leave russia in— here. and it is going to leave russia in a _ here. and it is going to leave russia in a terrible, terrible spot. — russia in a terrible, terrible spot, economically, politically, and marginalised. john. — politically, and marginalised. john. the _ politically, and marginalised. john, the thing that shocked many in the west was last weekend when it was indicated that president putin had given the order to put his nuclear forces on a higher level of alert, which reduces the timeframe for potential use of weapons. there have been suggestions in recent years that maybe the russian military�*s attitude to nuclear has changed, that they can see some limited circumstances where it could be a tactical advantage of deploying a weapon, knowing that the other side will not retaliate in that way and that that shifts from just being a deterrent, but the implications are really quite serious, aren't they? absolutely chilling. and, i'm afraid, i think there is a really strong chance that if

putin doesn't get his way quickly, and he is not getting it, clearly, that he may decide to use some sort of tactical nuclear weapon in order to terrify zelensky and the ukrainian government and make them simply surrender. and what them simply surrender. and what the west does then, i think, is very, very worrying. there is only one trump card, china. the chinese must be really getting very worried indeed about putin. their whole policy is based on the growth of the international economic community. putin was doing everything to destroy that. is it may be possible that china willjust it may be possible that china will just step it may be possible that china willjust step in and say, look, no more of this, sort it out? i

look, no more of this, sort it out? ., ., look, no more of this, sort it out? . ., look, no more of this, sort it out? ., ., ., out? i want to come back to ou, out? i want to come back to you. jeffrey. _ out? i want to come back to you. jeffrey. on _ out? i want to come back to you, jeffrey, on his- out? i want to come back to you, jeffrey, on his nuclear| you, jeffrey, on his nuclear question. michael mark all used to be ambassador to russia when it was negotiating the new treaty, said that although it is a possibility, he still thinks it is a low possibility of some kind of use of a nuclear weapon. nonetheless, of some kind of use of a nuclearweapon. nonetheless, it nuclear weapon. nonetheless, it must nuclearweapon. nonetheless, it must worry the white house if this talk is even being considered in military circles in russia. considered in military circles in russia-— considered in military circles in russia. ., ,, ., ., in russia. you know, the whole --rincile in russia. you know, the whole principle of _ in russia. you know, the whole principle of russia, _ in russia. you know, the whole principle of russia, the - in russia. you know, the whole principle of russia, the soviet i principle of russia, the soviet union, having nucleararms principle of russia, the soviet union, having nuclear arms and the us have a nuclear arms was this notion of mutually assured destruction. if you low us up, we will blow you up, we will send them before yours land and we will all be gone. that was kind of the tacit understanding of the cold war that led to thousands upon thousands of nuclear arms being aimed across the world at one another. and thatis the world at one another. and that is really what kept the peace. and that remains the case. in fact, this is really

the first time in the post—cold war error where we have seen this kind of escalation. i think the biden white house is very clearly signalling we are not going to be drawn into this tit—for—tat, when putin escalated the level of alert on his nuclear forces, escalated the level of alert on his nuclearforces, biden said we're not doing anything, may be discreetly they are, but his point was let's not raise the temperature here. let's not aggravate what is already a very severe situation by threatening to throw nuclear weapons at each other. i think john is right. whatjohn says, i think, is kind of the worst nightmare situation, if putin feels he has been defeated, which for him has the same meaning as humiliated, that is when he might feel the need to lash out and say damn to you, fay the nukes and so be it. putin clearly doesn't care, it is a zone vanity that is driving this. it is his own

hubris that is driving this. and some people think he may be made, i think that may be too simple. he isjust maniacal. thomas, you were born in 1940, and you were born in danzig... when war began. and it had been a free city, international city, and suddenly that all came to an end, from your perspective, how does this moment feel? i perspective, how does this moment feel?— perspective, how does this moment feel? i must say, the destruction — moment feel? i must say, the destruction of _ moment feel? i must say, the destruction of danzig - moment feel? i must say, the destruction of danzig in - moment feel? i must say, the destruction of danzig in 1945, | destruction of danzig in 1945, i have always assumed was the result of hitler's wars in russia and the well, he was the pariah of mankind, and innocence, although it was not for sale —— per say, a terrible thing happened, it was not an atrocity because russia defended itself against an aggressor called germany and in the course of a destroyed all before it, including my hometown, the difference to the modern day is the ukraine people, and ukraine as a country, is a piece loving

innocent neighbour who was being overruled by an aggressive sort of dictator like putin. so he commits atrocities on the level which crimes against humanity, which convulse mankind and therefore they hit me on a deeper level of insensitivity than even the destruction of my own hometown. and i cannot sort of compare the two issues. a grieve for the two issues. a grieve for the ukrainian is far more than ever before the loss of my hometown —— ukrainians. because they are suffering. they told an atrocity and crime for which there is no way to explain it and i think it goes deeper nowadays than everything i've experienced when we became refugees and had to leave danzig under atrocious da nzig under atrocious circumstances, of danzig under atrocious circumstances, of course. it is a bigger event at the moment only two things cannot compare because this is an innocent country which wanted nothing else but be a free and democratic neighbour and for that it democratic neighbour and for thatitis democratic neighbour and for that it is being punished in

the most inhumane, atrocious manner. we must insist on making putin the pariah of the world, as hitler was in his day. that is the only way to remind russians and the rest of the world that there is a limit to what you can do, as a criminal determined on having it your way. you can't have it all your way. there is going to be a price to pay. in the degradation of russia is also a sad part of all of this. but it is putin first and foremost to has to be hit hard to remind him that nothing will go without punishment. in him that nothing will go without punishment. in our last minute, geoffrey, _ without punishment. in our last minute, geoffrey, what- without punishment. in our last minute, geoffrey, what price i without punishment. in our last| minute, geoffrey, what price do you think russia could pay for this? i you think russia could pay for this? ~ you think russia could pay for this? ,, ., , you think russia could pay for this? ,, . , this? i think, as i said earlier. _ this? ithink, as i said earlier, i— this? ithink, as i said earlier, ithink- this? ithink, as i said - earlier, i think enormous. this? ithink, as i said - earlier, ithink enormous. it earlier, i think enormous. it is catastrophic for the average russian — is catastrophic for the average russian person who doesn't want this to _ russian person who doesn't want this to happen. i think russia as a — this to happen. i think russia as a pariah state, russia cut off economically, the standard off economically, the standard

of living — off economically, the standard of living absolutely collapsing, the western europe, germany. — collapsing, the western europe, germany, in particular, winning itself— germany, in particular, winning itself of— germany, in particular, winning itself of russian oil and gas, as it — itself of russian oil and gas, as it has _ itself of russian oil and gas, as it has been worn for decades and years. _ as it has been worn for decades and years. i_ as it has been worn for decades and years, i don't see russia recovering _ and years, i don't see russia recovering from this way very, very— recovering from this way very, very long _ recovering from this way very, very long time. it is a tragedy for russia. _ very long time. it is a tragedy for russia, but i think back to what — for russia, but i think back to what thomas says, this is provoked, unfortunately, by their— provoked, unfortunately, by their leader and the real tragedy is what is happening in ukraine — tragedy is what is happening in ukraine and that is, whatever, it has— ukraine and that is, whatever, it has to — ukraine and that is, whatever, it has to he _ ukraine and that is, whatever, it has to be stopped and i fear it has to be stopped and i fear it is going _ it has to be stopped and i fear it is going to get much more horrific— it is going to get much more horrific before that happens. thank — horrific before that happens. thank you all very much. more from dateline same time next weekend. goodbye. hello again. on friday, the best

of the sunshine was across the western side of the uk. there were a few showers around but, broadly speaking, a lot of dry weather to be found as well, whereas it looked rather different across eastern areas of england and, to a degree, in eastern scotland with thicker cloud, a bit of mist and also patchy outbreaks of light rain and drizzle. now, that thicker cloud was all caused by this weather system, this front, and i'm running you through three days' worth of satellite animation here. you see, it's taken three days for it to actually get across to eastern england. having got there, the front is going to do a u—turn and start pushing back westwards as we go through the weekend, bringing cloud and some patchy rain back across areas of england, so not quite done with the front just yet. now, over the next few hours, the majority of the rain is going to be following across east anglia and south east england, an odd patch elsewhere. across scotland, northern ireland and parts of north west england, quite a widespread frost. the lowest temperatures down to —4 or —5 in the highlands of scotland and although there will be quite a bit of cloud at times in england, i think, for the most part, as i go to the weekend, we should see the weather tending to brighten up with a bit of sunshine around. cold and frosty start, then, to the day across

the north—west of the country but across eastern areas underneath this area of cloud, 5—6 degrees with drizzle on and off for much of the day. eventually, the front starts to push a little bit further westwards, so we will probably see some cloud thickening across the midlands and central southern england, perhaps with an odd patch of rain here. sunshine across the north and west of the uk with temperatures around 8—10 degrees in the warmest spots. now, for sunday, a bit of patchy rain across the south—west initially. this cloud flowing in from the north sea could continue to be thick enough for an occasional patch of light rain or drizzle. the north and west, again, largely dry with sunshine, highs of 8—9 celsius, but feeling colder than that as we start to get a chillier wind. and sunday night is going to be a cold one. there will be, again, quite a widespread frost developing, temperatures at their lowest in some of the deeper valleys in scotland. now, beyond that, as we look at the forecast into next week, our area of high pressurejust drifts to west russia and we get these very chilly east—south—easterly winds blowing their way in. there will be a lot of dry weather with sunshine, gusty winds, and it's the winds and the dryness of the air that will make it feel,

i think, quite chilly.

good morning, welcome to breakfast with ben thompson and naga munchetty. 0ur headlines today: ukraine's president criticises the west for ruling out a no—fly zone over his country while russian attacks continue. more and more refugees are fleeing the country as fighting intensifies — 1.2 million people have now left. the social media war: how young people are documenting their experiences on tiktok and instagram. a state funeral is planned in australia for cricket's greatest showman, shane warne, after the death yesterday of one of the most famous and successful players

in the history of the game.