without water or gas. now on bbc news... panorama. as anybody injured 7 as anybody injured? yes, loads! as anybody in'ured? yes, loads! as anybody in'ured? yes, loads! a bomb has — as anybody injured? yes, loads! a bomb has gone _ as anybody injured? yes, loads! a bomb has gone off. _ as anybody injured? yes, loads! a bomb has gone off. on - as anybody injured? yes, loads! a bomb has gone off. on 22nd l as anybody injured? yes, loads! | a bomb has gone off. on 22nd of may 2017. _ a bomb has gone off. on 22nd of may 2017. a _ a bomb has gone off. on 22nd of may 2017, a bomb _ a bomb has gone off. on 22nd of may 2017, a bomb exploded - a bomb has gone off. on 22nd of may 2017, a bomb exploded at i a bomb has gone off. on 22nd of| may 2017, a bomb exploded at an ariana grande concert in manchester. 22 people were murdered. eight—year—old saffie—rose roussos was the youngest victim. saffie-rose roussos was the youngest victim.— saffie-rose roussos was the youngest victim. she 'ust had a heart of love. h

youngest victim. she 'ust had a heart of love. she _ youngest victim. she just had a heart of love. she just - youngest victim. she just had a heart of love. she just was - heart of love. she 'ust was enthusiastic h heart of love. she 'ust was enthusiastic about]- heart of love. she just was - enthusiastic about everything. is the — enthusiastic about everything. is the fifth anniversary of the attack approaches, saffie would now be 13 years old. sometimes m mind now be 13 years old. sometimes my mind will — now be 13 years old. sometimes my mind will go. _ now be 13 years old. sometimes my mind will go, she _ now be 13 years old. sometimes my mind will go, she has - now be 13 years old. sometimes my mind will go, she has died, l my mind will go, she has died, and it is like a house dropping on you. and it is like a house dropping on ou. ~ . ~' and it is like a house dropping on ou.~ ., ~ ., and it is like a house dropping on ou. ~ ., ~ ., ., on you. we talk about her all the time- _ on you. we talk about her all the time. she _ on you. we talk about her all the time. she is _ on you. we talk about her all the time. she is in our - on you. we talk about her all. the time. she is in our hearts, so she's— the time. she is in our hearts, so she's not— the time. she is in our hearts, so she's not going anywhere. tonight, _ so she's not going anywhere. tonight, saffie's parents tell her. read for the first time. for us as a family, we need to get to the truth. i want to know whether it could have been prevented. find out what happened to saffie, and whether she could have survived. to saffie! ~ , ,., ,

hello, this is saffie, and welcome _ hello, this is saffie, and welcome to— hello, this is saffie, and welcome to my - hello, this is saffie, and welcome to my car. - hello, this is saffie, and welcome to my car. this hello, this is saffie, and . welcome to my car. this is hello, this is saffie, and - welcome to my car. this is my dad, _ welcome to my car. this is my dad. this— welcome to my car. this is my dad. this is— welcome to my car. this is my dad, this is my— welcome to my car. this is my dad, this is my brother, - welcome to my car. this is my dad, this is my brother, this. dad, this is my brother, this is me. — dad, this is my brother, this is me. and _ dad, this is my brother, this is me, and this _ dad, this is my brother, this is me, and this is _ dad, this is my brother, this is me, and this is my- dad, this is my brother, this is me, and this is my mum. | dad, this is my brother, thisi is me, and this is my mum. i just— is me, and this is my mum. i just showed _ is me, and this is my mum. i just showed you _ is me, and this is my mum. i just showed you my- is me, and this is my mum. i just showed you my family. i that is her bag. bless her. that — that is her bag. bless her. that was— that is her bag. bless her. that was when yeah, when the nursery — that was when yeah, when the nursery teachers came to cs before — nursery teachers came to cs before started reception, yeah. this is— before started reception, yeah. this is the _ before started reception, yeah. this is the resource family. mum lisa, dad andrew, mother zander, and saffie. —— the roussos family. i

zander, and saffie. -- the roussos family.— zander, and saffie. -- the roussos family. i don't think saffie ever — roussos family. i don't think saffie ever sat _ roussos family. i don't think saffie ever sat still. - roussos family. i don't think saffie ever sat still. she - saffie ever sat still. she would be singing and dancing and jumping would be singing and dancing andjumping around. very and jumping around. very energetic andjumping around. very energetic child. very energetic.— energetic child. very eneraetic. ,, ., ,. ., energetic. she loved music that she could move _ energetic. she loved music that she could move to _ energetic. she loved music that she could move to an _ energetic. she loved music that she could move to an dance - energetic. she loved music that she could move to an dance to. | she could move to an dance to. everything _ she could move to an dance to. everything was ariana grande, so when — everything was ariana grande, so when we knew she was touring, _ so when we knew she was touring, she was coming to the uk, andrew said what do you think— uk, andrew said what do you think about if we get her some tickets— think about if we get her some tickets for christmas? she couldn't believe _ tickets for christmas? she couldn't believe it. - tickets for christmas? me: couldn't believe it. could not believe it, that she is going to go and see ariana grande come alive. fin to go and see ariana grande come alive.— come alive. on the actual niaht, come alive. on the actual night. i — come alive. on the actual night. i set _ come alive. on the actual night, i set out _ come alive. on the actual night, i set out her - come alive. on the actual. night, i set out her clothes, come alive. on the actual- night, i set out her clothes, i -ot night, i set out her clothes, i got her— night, i set out her clothes, i got her an_ night, i set out her clothes, i got her an ariana grande t-shirt _ got her an ariana grande t-shirt i_ got her an ariana grande t—shirt. i think she got a little _ t—shirt. i think she got a little denim skirt on and black leggings. she couldn't believe it. leggings. she couldn't believe it so — leggings. she couldn't believe it. so excited, so happy. she just— it. so excited, so happy. she just wanted to get in the

arena _ manchester! saffie! when the concert was finishing just before 10:30pm. i made them all a sandwich, just in case they were hungry, and drove up to manchester. i parked up there, waiting for them. i think it was about 28 minutes past ten. taste them. i think it was about 28 minutes past ten. we started auoin u- minutes past ten. we started going no the _ minutes past ten. we started going up the steps _ minutes past ten. we started going up the steps onto - minutes past ten. we started going up the steps onto the l going up the steps onto the concourse, and i had got saffie 's hand — concourse, and i had got saffie '5 hand with my left hand, but she was— '5 hand with my left hand, but she was pulling me, she just wanted — she was pulling me, she just wanted to get out to her dad and zanderand wanted to get out to her dad and zander and honestly tell him what an amazing evening she had had, — him what an amazing evening she had had, so — him what an amazing evening she had had, so she was pulling me.

and then, — had had, so she was pulling me. and then, the next minute, i just— and then, the next minute, i just remember hitting the floor. _ just remember hitting the floor, really, like, with a really— floor, really, like, with a really heavy bank. —— bang there~ _ really heavy bank. —— bang there. ht_ really heavy bank. -- bang there. �* ':: there. at 10:31pm as the audience _ there. at 10:31pm as the audience was _ there. at 10:31pm as the audience was living, - audience was living, 22—year—old salman abedi detonated his home—made bomb. saffie and lisa were just five metres away. i saffie and lisa were 'ust five metres awayh metres away. i 'ust heard --eole metres away. i 'ust heard people and _ metres away. ijust heard people and children - metres away. ijust heard people and children run l metres away. ijust heard i people and children run and screaming. hundreds of people hysterical. i saw these three women, and they were just crying, and ijust said what's going on? and theyjust said we think a bomb's gone off. i sort of put my arm round zander, and i knew that this is serious. you never think in your lifetime you are going to be involved in something like this. it is a surreal moment to

be in. i spoke to a police officer and arejust that be in. i spoke to a police officer and are just that i am looking my daughter, so they just said, have a look around. and basically, that's what we did, wejust and basically, that's what we did, we just went from person on the floor to person on the porter person on the floor. i kept thinking, help us make going — kept thinking, help us make going to _ kept thinking, help us make going to come soon, just wait, help— going to come soon, just wait, help us— going to come soon, just wait, help us make going to come soon -- heto's— help us make going to come soon —— help's going to come soon. i felt like — —— help's going to come soon. i felt like it— —— help's going to come soon. i felt like it was a long time before _ felt like it was a long time before some came over to me and they asked — before some came over to me and they asked me my name. and all i they asked me my name. and all i could _ they asked me my name. and all icoutd say— they asked me my name. and all i could say was saffie. ijust said — i could say was saffie. ijust said saffie. because i wanted them — said saffie. because i wanted them to— said saffie. because i wanted them to find her. lisa was taken to hospital with life—threatening injuries. andrew finally tracked her down at 6:30am the next morning. 50 at 6:30am the next morning. so i went

at 6:30am the next morning. sr i went into icu, and took a look at lisa, and ijust walked behind the bed and just broke down. they went through the possibilities of amputation of her hand, her leg, being paralysed from the leg down, and basically a 20% chance of surviving. and basically a 20% chance of surviving-— surviving. lisa was put into a coma. andrew _ surviving. lisa was put into a coma. andrew still _ surviving. lisa was put into a coma. andrew still didn't - surviving. lisa was put into a l coma. andrew still didn't know where saffie was. this coma. andrew still didn't know where saffie was.— where saffie was. this was becoming _ where saffie was. this was becoming a _ where saffie was. this was becoming a nightmare, - where saffie was. this was| becoming a nightmare, and where saffie was. this was i becoming a nightmare, and it where saffie was. this was - becoming a nightmare, and it is unfolding to be real. one of the nurses that was with us said that this is a detective. i said i need to know when my daughter is. i think he returned at 12:30pm, and he says, he asked for a room, says come in. make your way out the room. and that walk to that room. and that walk to that room is something no human

being should take. it's a cruel life that me and lisa are living. your whole world isjust lisa are living. your whole world is just tumbling lisa are living. your whole world isjust tumbling on lisa are living. your whole world is just tumbling on the floor, it isjust world is just tumbling on the floor, it is just falling. we just know we've got to carry on, particularly forxander. on, particularly for xander. we've on, particularly forxander. we've lost our daughter, he's his little sister. they were very, very close.— his little sister. they were very, very close. lisa was in hosoital_ very, very close. lisa was in hospital for _ very, very close. lisa was in hospital for three _ very, very close. lisa was in hospital for three months. l hospital for three months. andrew and xander stayed with her. the family never went back to their home in lincolnshire. me and lisa couldn't face what we had as a family. once lisa

left hospital, i said, why don't wejust move left hospital, i said, why don't we just move away? so we just basically escaped, a bit like running away.- just basically escaped, a bit like running away. living their old life behind, _ like running away. living their old life behind, they - like running away. living their old life behind, they moved . like running away. living their| old life behind, they moved to dorset, and in their new home, there is a bedroom for saffie. everything in this room is what she knew. _ everything in this room is what she knew, that she'd seen, and that's— she knew, that she'd seen, and that's what— she knew, that she'd seen, and that's what we wanted. we didn't— that's what we wanted. we didn't want anything changing. so this— didn't want anything changing. so this was originally in saffies— so this was originally in saffie's bedroom. there are some — saffie's bedroom. there are some photos, just some of when she was— some photos, just some of when she was a — some photos, just some of when she was a baby. my first curl, look— she was a baby. my first curl, took at — she was a baby. my first curl, look at that. macau darker hair was! _ look at that. macau darker hair was! . , ., , look at that. macau darker hair was! ., i. , ., , ., was! have you been able to brina was! have you been able to bring yourself _ was! have you been able to bring yourself to _ was! have you been able to bring yourself to open - was! have you been able to| bring yourself to open these boxes much?— bring yourself to open these boxes much? ., , ., boxes much? no. the first, done that one- — boxes much? no. the first, done that one- has _ boxes much? no. the first, done that one. has it _ boxes much? no. the first, done that one. has it been _

boxes much? no. the first, done that one. has it been too - boxes much? no. the first, done that one. has it been too hard? l that one. has it been too hard? she is here _ that one. has it been too hard? she is here with _ that one. has it been too hard? she is here with me. _ that one. has it been too hard? she is here with me. and - that one. has it been too hard? she is here with me. and they i she is here with me. and they wouldn't — she is here with me. and they wouldn't have her anywhere else — wouldn't have her anywhere else -- _ wouldn't have her anywhere else -- i_ wouldn't have her anywhere else. —— iwouldn't wouldn't have her anywhere else. —— i wouldn't have wouldn't have her anywhere else. —— iwouldn't have her. two — else. —— iwouldn't have her. two years— else. —— iwouldn't have her. two years ago, a public enquiry began into the manchester arena attack, and each of the 22 deaths. , ., deaths. listening to the enquiry. _ deaths. listening to the enquiry, things - deaths. listening to the enquiry, things went. deaths. listening to the - enquiry, things went wrong, and they shouldn't have gone wrong. i can understand the sheer panic of that note. i witnessed it myself, you know? it is an horrendous ordeal. i mean, what drives me i suppose is knowing the information. i want to scrutinise everybody to the point of getting to the truth.

the enquiry is asking- the enquiry is asking recruit the attacks _ the enquiry is asking recruit the attacks have _ the enquiry is asking recruit the attacks have been - the enquiry is asking recruit - the attacks have been prevented i could any of the victims been saved? ~ ., ., ., ., ~' i could any of the victims been saved? ~ ., ., ., ., ~ ., saved? we are not looking for scapegoats- — saved? we are not looking for scapegoats- we _ saved? we are not looking for scapegoats. we are _ saved? we are not looking for scapegoats. we are searching | scapegoats. we are searching for the — scapegoats. we are searching for the truth. _ scapegoats. we are searching for the truth. let's _ scapegoats. we are searching for the truth. let's always - for the truth. let's always remember— for the truth. let's always remember as— for the truth. let's always rememberas we- for the truth. let's always remember as we considerj for the truth. let's always - remember as we consider the evidence _ remember as we consider the evidence that _ remember as we consider the evidence that the _ remember as we consider the evidence that the person whoj remember as we consider the . evidence that the person who is directly— evidence that the person who is directly responsible _ evidence that the person who is directly responsible for- evidence that the person who is directly responsible for this - directly responsible for this tragedy— directly responsible for this tragedy is _ directly responsible for this tragedy is salman - directly responsible for this tragedy is salman abedi. . directly responsible for this tragedy is salman abedi. salman abedi was born _ tragedy is salman abedi. salman abedi was born and _ tragedy is salman abedi. salman abedi was born and raised - tragedy is salman abedi. salman abedi was born and raised in - abedi was born and raised in south manchester. his parents had left libya in the early 90s to settle here. in 2014, he came to the attention of m15. he was 19 years old. soon after, he travelled to war—torn libya. whilst he was there, his case was closed. salman abedi made two further round trips to libya, returningjust made two further round trips to libya, returning just days before the bombing.

we can't stop every attack, of course — we can't stop every attack, of course we _ we can't stop every attack, of course we can't, _ we can't stop every attack, of course we can't, but - we can't stop every attack, of course we can't,— course we can't, but we can stop the — course we can't, but we can stop the ones _ course we can't, but we can stop the ones where - course we can't, but we can stop the ones where it - course we can't, but we can stop the ones where it is i course we can't, but we can. stop the ones where it is just so transparent where anybody can see what they are up to. some evidence given by the security services to the manchester arena enquiry has been held in secret, due to national security. the family say it has made it hard to know if moore could have been done to prevent the attack. questions need to be answered. why won't they preferred, why won't things change from 7—7, which is going back many many years? why do we keep losing our loved ones?— years? why do we keep losing our loved ones? andrew, good to meet you- _ our loved ones? andrew, good to meet you. thank _ our loved ones? andrew, good to meet you. thank you _ our loved ones? andrew, good to meet you. thank you for - our loved ones? andrew, good to meet you. thank you for having l meet you. thank you for having me. in meet you. thank you for having me. in 2017, — meet you. thank you for having me. in 2017, lord _ meet you. thank you for having me. in 2017, lord anderson - meet you. thank you for having | me. in 2017, lord anderson was asked by the — me. in 2017, lord anderson was asked by the government - me. in 2017, lord anderson was asked by the government to - asked by the government to review the handling of salman abedi. he was given access inside m15. i abedi. he was given access inside ms.— abedi. he was given access inside m15. , ., , ., ., inside m15. i personally have a roblem inside m15. i personally have a problem with _ inside mis. i personally have a problem with our— inside m15. i personally have a problem with our government |

inside m15. i personally have a - problem with our government and mis, in problem with our government and m15, in the handling of the opd family prior to 2017, and the opportunities missed —— abedi. it was an appalling atrocity, we spend _ it was an appalling atrocity, we spend £3— it was an appalling atrocity, we spend £3 billion - it was an appalling atrocity, we spend £3 billion on - we spend £3 billion on counterterrorism - we spend £3 billion on counterterrorism a - we spend £3 billion onl counterterrorism a year we spend £3 billion on - counterterrorism a year and that — counterterrorism a year and that 90 _ counterterrorism a year and that 90 didn't _ counterterrorism a year and that 90 didn't work. - counterterrorism a year and that 90 didn't work. m15- that 90 didn't work. mi5 admitted _ that 90 didn't work. mi5 admitted to— that 90 didn't work. mi5 admitted to me - that 90 didn't work. mi5 admitted to me at - that 90 didn't work. mi5 admitted to me at least| that 90 didn't work. m15- admitted to me at least two things— admitted to me at least two things they— admitted to me at least two things they got _ admitted to me at least two things they got wrong, - admitted to me at least two things they got wrong, and i admitted to me at least two i things they got wrong, and the first thing _ things they got wrong, and the first thing was _ things they got wrong, and the first thing was that _ things they got wrong, and the first thing was that when - things they got wrong, and the first thing was that when earlyl first thing was that when early in 2017, — first thing was that when early in 2017, they— first thing was that when early in 2017, they received - in 2017, they received intelligence, - in 2017, they received intelligence, and i in 2017, they received intelligence, and they interpret— intelligence, and they interpret it _ intelligence, and they interpret it probably. intelligence, and they| interpret it probably is something _ interpret it probably is something to - interpret it probably is something to do i interpret it probably is something to do withl something to do with drugs organised crime _ something to do with drugs organised crime and - something to do with drugs organised crime and not. organised crime and not something _ organised crime and not something to _ organised crime and not something to do - organised crime and not something to do with i organised crime and not- something to do with terrorism or nationat— something to do with terrorism or national security. _ something to do with terrorism or national security. the - or national security. the second _ or national security. the second thing _ or national security. the second thing was - or national security. the second thing was that i or national security. the i second thing was that when satman _ second thing was that when salman abedi _ second thing was that when salman abedi came - second thing was that when salman abedi came back. second thing was that when i salman abedi came back from libya — salman abedi came back from libya four— salman abedi came back from libya four days _ salman abedi came back from libya four days before - salman abedi came back from libya four days before the i libya four days before the attack, _ libya four days before the attack, they— libya four days before the attack, they could - libya four days before the attack, they could have i libya four days before the i attack, they could have stopped him. _ attack, they could have stopped him. or— attack, they could have stopped him. or they— attack, they could have stopped him, or they could _ attack, they could have stopped him, or they could have - attack, they could have stopped him, or they could have asked l him, or they could have asked the police _ him, or they could have asked the police to— him, or they could have asked the police to have _ him, or they could have asked the police to have stopped ati the police to have stopped at the police to have stopped at the airport _ the police to have stopped at the airport and _ the police to have stopped at the airport and question i the police to have stopped atj the airport and question him. if the airport and question him. if either— the airport and question him. if either of— the airport and question him. if either of those _ the airport and question him. if either of those things i the airport and question him. if either of those things had i if either of those things had been — if either of those things had been different, _ if either of those things had been different, they- if either of those things had been different, they are i if either of those things had been different, they are not persuaded _ been different, they are not persuaded that _ been different, they are not persuaded that the - been different, they are not persuaded that the attack . been different, they are not- persuaded that the attack would have been— persuaded that the attack would have been stopped, _ persuaded that the attack would have been stopped, and - persuaded that the attack would i have been stopped, and although i have been stopped, and although i resbect — have been stopped, and although i respect that _ have been stopped, and although i respect that view— have been stopped, and although i respect that view that _ have been stopped, and although i respect that view that as - have been stopped, and although i respect that view that as far i i respect that view that as far as i i respect that view that as far as i was— i respect that view that as far as i was concerned, - i respect that view that as far as i was concerned, that i i respect that view that as far as i was concerned, that was| i respect that view that as far i as i was concerned, that was an open _ as i was concerned, that was an

open question _ as i was concerned, that was an open question-— as i was concerned, that was an open question. after mi5 closed their investigation _ open question. after mi5 closed their investigation of _ open question. after mi5 closed their investigation of abedi i open question. after mi5 closed their investigation of abedi in i their investigation of abedi in 2014, he went on to visit abdul ralph abdullah in prison, a man convicted of terror offences. despite this, abedi was still not considered a risk to national security. when you go to one of _ national security. when you go to one of our _ national security. when you go to one of our prisons _ national security. when you go to one of our prisons in - national security. when you go to one of our prisons in this i to one of our prisons in this country, new bits of the person that he did, on a number of occasions, plus making phone calls to this person, that should have been a triggerfor mis. i should have been a trigger for mi5. ,, should have been a trigger for mi5. ~ , should have been a trigger for mi5. ,, , , . , m15. i think it is perfectly obvious _ m15. i think it is perfectly obvious to _ m15. i think it is perfectly obvious to anybody i m15. i think it is perfectly obvious to anybody that i m15. i think it is perfectly| obvious to anybody that if m15. i think it is perfectly | obvious to anybody that if a known _ obvious to anybody that if a known terrorist _ obvious to anybody that if a known terrorist or- obvious to anybody that if a | known terrorist or extremist obvious to anybody that if a i known terrorist or extremist is being — known terrorist or extremist is being visited _ known terrorist or extremist is being visited in— known terrorist or extremist is being visited in prison - known terrorist or extremist is being visited in prison by- being visited in prison by someone _ being visited in prison by someone younger- being visited in prison by someone younger and i being visited in prison by. someone younger and more impressionable, _ someone younger and more impressionable, it- someone younger and more impressionable, it would i someone younger and more i impressionable, it would make sense — impressionable, it would make sense to — impressionable, it would make sense to see _ impressionable, it would make sense to see what _ impressionable, it would make sense to see what intelligencel sense to see what intelligence could — sense to see what intelligence could be — sense to see what intelligence could be gleaned _ sense to see what intelligence could be gleaned from - sense to see what intelligence could be gleaned from that i could be gleaned from that encounter _ could be gleaned from that encounter.— encounter. when police investigated _ encounter. when police investigated abdallah i encounter. when police| investigated abdallah in encounter. when police i investigated abdallah in 2014, they seized his phone. it contained 1300 messages he had

exchanged with a fellow extremist.— exchanged with a fellow extremist. , ., ., , extremist. every day on every kneeling. _ extremist. every day on every kneeling. i — extremist. every day on every kneeling, i ask— extremist. every day on every kneeling, i ask my _ extremist. every day on every kneeling, i ask my lord i extremist. every day on every kneeling, i ask my lord for. kneeling, i ask my lord for martyrdom. that is totally the sort _ martyrdom. that is totally the sort of — martyrdom. that is totally the sort of language or expect to see coming out of extremist. 14 messages — see coming out of extremist. 14 messages a day, over 1000 in a month — messages a day, over 1000 in a month. there is an intensity to that— month. there is an intensity to that conversation.— that conversation. although olice that conversation. although police had _ that conversation. although police had used _ that conversation. although police had used the - that conversation. although i police had used the messages to help convicted abdullah, they had told the enquiry they have never identified his contact. it was salman abedi. you have somebody _ it was salman abedi. you have somebody here _ it was salman abedi. you have somebody here who is - it was salman abedi. you have somebody here who is very i somebody here who is very busily— somebody here who is very busily espousing extremist views, _ busily espousing extremist views, is— busily espousing extremist views, is talking to a person under— views, is talking to a person under investigation and subsequently convicted for a terrorist _ subsequently convicted for a terrorist offence, but then there _ terrorist offence, but then there has been no follow—up. how— there has been no follow—up. how did — there has been no follow—up. how did they get to a situation, whereby the messages were seen by police officers, but no one followed

how did it get to a situation whereby the messages were seen by police officers, but no one followed up? i don't know what the workload was in the north—west at that l time, but i imagine. it was very, very high. however, the bit that - i struggle with is, this is not difficult intelligence to exploit. - and if we're investigating terrorists, you know, i we want to investigate their networks. - i find that inexplicable. m15 say they didn't receive this intelligence before the attack. and it wasn't until the year after the bombing that police identified abedi was behind the messages. lord anderson's 2017 report found gaps in the way intelligence was shared between agencies. it's the sort of thing that involves different organisations working together in an efficient way. and it's the sort of thing that we made recommendations about because it wasn't working as well as it should. but in your opinion, do you think that should have been in place, with the history that we've had up to 2017? well, of course it would have been better if it had have been. no, do you think it should have been? i have to be careful because a high courtjudge,

sirjohn saunders... of course, absolutely, yeah. ..is going to decide if there is blame and where it should be apportioned. that absolutely wasn't myjob. it certainly wasn't perfect prior to 2017 and it's i was looking for honesty through it all, really, and i felt he was being as honest as he possibly could. the only way to make things better is to admit that there's mistakes that need adressing. again, i keep hearing off everybody "lessons learnt" but, you know, we shouldn't lose eight—year—old children to make that point. the inquiry is also looking at how the emergency services responded on the night. greater manchester police were running the initaljoint response. however, i would also like to acknowledge and apologise for failings by greater manchester police.

the inquiry has heard there was a catastrophic breakdown in communication. failure to establish effective inter—service communications was unacceptable and we apologise for this unreservedly. only three paramedics made it in to the blast zone, and it was two hours before the fire service arrived — after the last casualty had been taken out. the inquiry is due to begin hearing evidence about saffie, so the roussos family are returning to manchester. got your stuff packed, xander, that you want to take? chargers, phones. dreading it. really don't want to go. it's giving me sleepless

nights, it's made me anxious. it's a horrible, nervy feeling. going to court will be the hardest. going through my statement. i know it's going to be emotionally draining but just keep saying, "it's for saffie," obviously, and i've got to do it. hi, pete, nicola. how are you? very well. nice to see you both. nice to see you too. after you give your evidence then we go straight to start the evidence of the people that were there who tried to help. stating the obvious, this is very difficult territory for you, i'm very aware of that. evidence disclosed to the roussos' legal team raised questions about whether saffie could have survived the bombing.

at the very start the family'sl understanding was that saffie had died straight away. but saffie lived for- an extended period after she sustained these terrible injuries. i over an hour. and during that time _ she was conscious, she was able to talk, she was able to ask questions. i after the bomb exploded there were fears of a second attack. because of the breakdown in communication between the emergency services, arena workers and members of the public were left to help the injured inside the foyer. paul reid was selling posters that night. it was smokey, and there was people running about screaming, you know. and ijust stood there for probably a minute. i think my brain was trying to take in what was going on because there was people on the floor.

it was hectic. yeah, it was chaos, basically. and then i phoned the police. ijust kept on screaming to send everything and everybody to the arena, to the foyer. there's been an explosion. paul saw saffie and tried to comfort her. i told her not to worry, i asked her her name and i told her not to worry and that more help was going to come in a minute and, yeah... as time went on, did you think, you know, where are the ambulances? they're not here. was it beginning to worry you? it was definitely beginning to worry that nobody was there. there was no medics or... no, no, no. it was definitely worrying me. 26 minutes after the explosion, paul helped carry saffie to the street on an advertising board. saffie was the first person to be taken to hospital after an ambulance heading to the arena was flagged down. saffie's main injuries - were to her legs, particularly

the backs of her knees. and there was obviously a lot of bleeding from those - injuries. unfortunately, i that wasn't noticed. or, wasn't corrected. and if that bleeding i is allowed to continue, eventually you run out| of blood, and the body will shut down. the people around saffie, l many of them did their best in appalling circumstances. but the basic medical techniques that could and should have been used weren't. - at 11:40pm, more than an hour after the attack, saffie

died in hospital. finding out exactly what happened is hard to take because you don't want anyone to suffer, never mind... do you know what i mean? ..your child. it does make you very angry and gets you very upset to know that that little girl did everything she could to keep herself going and the system failed her. and i want to get to the bottom of that. two sets of medical experts gave evidence to the inquiry. one group said saffie's injuries were too severe to survive. the other said it's possible she could've lived if she'd received basic treatment.

we're going to be left wondering, aren't we, and that worries me a little bit. that's an inevitable - consequence of the experts being in disagreement with each other. i obviously, i don't knowi what the chair will make of it eventually. you may get a very clear- conclusion from him one way or the other, or it might be somewhere in the middle. i it's not like a criminal case where you get guilty- or not guilty. it's much less binary. could she have survived? couldn't she? if she could have survived then you then think about the care she was given, or the lack of it. so thatjust throws you into turmoil. and i know that if she was given that chance she would still be here, i really do.

today, andrew and lisa will give their statements to the inquiry. as mum and dad for saffie, really we see it as saffie's voice. and, you know, we believe certain aspects of that night were catastrophically wrong so we're here to make sure it's aired, for thejudge to hear. and it's... it is very important for us to do. it is going to be a tough day. as a human being, a father, i cannot live with myself if i don't voice this. the response on that night was shameful and inadequate. what can we learn from this? the response of the security services on this atrocity should go down in history as one of the worst failures from start to finish. and that's what we should learn from this. thank you. i want to thank those that tried to help saffie that night

and for being with her. i also want to say to the professionals, like the emergency services and m15, that this inquiry isn't about protecting your job, your reputation or your uniform. we understand the sheer panic and fear you were faced with that night, but until you admit the failings, how can there be a positive change? during the inquiry north west ambulance service said lessons have been learned, but believe there were "no inadequacies" in their response which contributed to saffie's death. greater manchester police and fire services accepted failings in their overall response on the night. counterterrorism police and m15 have both told the inquiry they are sorry the attack wasn't stopped. the inquiry�*s conclusions are expected to be published later this year.

ijust hope the whole process of this inquiry does what it's set out to do, what it's meant to do. ifeel the need to keep pushing for a change, to do the right thing. before leaving manchester, the family visit the memorial dedicated to the lives lost in the attack, to lay a time capsule for saffie. to think someone, another mother, could go through what i've gone through and still going through and will do forever, is just heartbreaking. it'sjust so sad. have you got the stuff for it? what do you want to do? she's not here, mate. she's with us at home.

we'll never be who we were, we'll never have what we had, but saffie is always with us. and we'll take her with us forever.

this is bbc news, our top stories: we witness life on the frontline for ukrainian forces, fighting to defend the country's second largest city kharkiv from russia's relentless assault. if these tactics are unfamiliar to you, then you have not been paying attention because this is the russian attack playbook, perfected over ten years of war in syria. the ukrainian army head into no man's [and towards russian forces. they say their spirits are stronger than ever. we are fighting on our land and protect our families, so it doesn't matter how they fight. we fight like lions and they will not win. new satellite images show the russian military convoy

heading towards kyiv has now dispersed, with artillery