hello and welcome to the programme which brings together bbc specialists and the foreign correspondents, who write, blog and broadcast to audiences back home from the dateline: london. this week: two weeks oil & gas exports from russiaexport what are those in the middle east to depend on it?

henry chu, an experienced foreign correspondent at the la times, who as the us west coast sleeps is ensuring its readers are kept up to date on what's happening in ukraine. vera krichevskaya is a documentary film maker. she helped to found tv rain, an independent channel in russia which has now been shut down. gabriel gatehouse, internationsal editor for bbc television's newsnight programme, is here in the studio. thank you very much. and to vera for joining us for the first time on this programme. i would like to start with you, if i may, however russians are finding out about what the kremlin because its special operation? the kremlin because its special operation?— the kremlin because its special operation? the kremlin because its special oeration? ., , ., operation? good evening. can i start with the latest _ operation? good evening. can i start with the latest news _ operation? good evening. can i start with the latest news in _ operation? good evening. can i start with the latest news in one - operation? good evening. can i start with the latest news in one hour- operation? good evening. can i start with the latest news in one hour 30 i with the latest news in one hour 30 minutes, instagram and basher will be officially banned before, and this week, twitter and facebook was banned and all this started two weeks ago. first day of the war. the new law was enforced that restricted

to say the word war and to call it the war as a special operation. and another law was enforced saying you cannot quote any source regarding the war except the official sources of the russian ministry of defence of the russian ministry of defence of the russian state media. it started two weeks ago. is of the russian state media. it started two weeks ago. is there a way russians _ started two weeks ago. is there a way russians can _ started two weeks ago. is there a way russians can get _ started two weeks ago. is there a way russians can get around - started two weeks ago. is there a | way russians can get around this? are they finding ways to get information?— are they finding ways to get information? , ., ., ., , information? the situation was chanced information? the situation was changed several— information? the situation was changed several times. - information? the situation was changed several times. otherl changed several times. other independent media could work during the first seven days. even more. maybe eight days. it was a kind of verbal game for example, for many ukrainians, many ukrainian experts,

participated in podcasting. but later new amendments were aired and any fake information regarding the war became punishable by 15 years in prison. the war became punishable by 15 years in rison. ., ., , . ., prison. the authorities decide what is and is not _ prison. the authorities decide what is and is not fake. _ prison. the authorities decide what is and is not fake. the _ prison. the authorities decide what is and is not fake. the sanctions i is and is not fake. the sanctions are clearly having an impact. isn't there a risk in some of the social media companies have themselves withdrawn closed access to their sites in russia. there is a danger that, actually, willing hearts and minds is not happening. is there enough of an effort to do that? it is a difficult challenge was to win hearts_ is a difficult challenge was to win hearts and minds you need access to eyes and _ hearts and minds you need access to eyes and ears and as vera was just saying _ eyes and ears and as vera was just saying those avenues that are not

from _ saying those avenues that are not from state — saying those avenues that are not from state sources are becoming fewer _ from state sources are becoming fewer and — from state sources are becoming fewer and fewer. it is not any more a war— fewer and fewer. it is not any more a war where — fewer and fewer. it is not any more a war where nato, for example, fewer and fewer. it is not any more a warwhere nato, for example, is directly— a warwhere nato, for example, is directly flying over russian airspace. it is much more electronic now _ airspace. it is much more electronic now and _ airspace. it is much more electronic now. and when you have the majority people _ now. and when you have the majority peorrie still_ now. and when you have the majority people still relying on television and if— people still relying on television and if you — people still relying on television and if you are on the outside don't have _ and if you are on the outside don't have access — and if you are on the outside don't have access to those airwaves then trying _ have access to those airwaves then trying to _ have access to those airwaves then trying to actually get information over is— trying to actually get information over is going to be a really tough task _ over is going to be a really tough task as — over is going to be a really tough task. as vera said, social media has been _ task. as vera said, social media has been shut_ task. as vera said, social media has been shutdown, facebook, instagram and twitter. _ been shutdown, facebook, instagram and twitter, and the facebook parent organisation is being designated as extremist _ organisation is being designated as extremist organisations. even those russians— extremist organisations. even those russians getting information on online _ russians getting information on online sources and social media. that _ online sources and social media. that does— online sources and social media. that does not necessarily mean

they're — that does not necessarily mean they're getting western information. they could _ they're getting western information. they could be from russian sources themselves and other pro—russian outlets _ themselves and other pro—russian outlets so — themselves and other pro—russian outlets so finding that way out is really _ outlets so finding that way out is really difficult. i think that perhaps the most effective appeals to hearts _ perhaps the most effective appeals to hearts and minds has actually come _ to hearts and minds has actually come from — to hearts and minds has actually come from ukraine's president zeiensky— come from ukraine's president zelensky who speaks russian and has made _ zelensky who speaks russian and has made direct appeal to the russian people _ made direct appeal to the russian peorrie in— made direct appeal to the russian people in their own language to say, you know. _ people in their own language to say, you know, this is not your war. why are you _ you know, this is not your war. why are you a _ you know, this is not your war. why are you a leader is doing this? and encouraging them to protest against that but— encouraging them to protest against that but again, if there are no avenues — that but again, if there are no avenues in _ that but again, if there are no avenues in than it is going to be very— avenues in than it is going to be very difficult to try to win those hearts — very difficult to try to win those hearts and minds you talked about. | hearts and minds you talked about. suppose hearts and minds you talked about. i suppose there are informal connections because so many ukrainians have russian relatives and vice versa. queen make huge numbers. i've been speaking to people in eastern ukraine by most people in eastern ukraine by most people have russian as a first amateur say they have been talking to their relatives inside russia but often you hear these heartbreaking tales of people saying, guys, you

guys are bombing us here. what are you doing? and their relatives on the other side of the divide saying, we don't believe you. this is propaganda. these are the ukrainians doing it to themselves so you have these heart—rending situations where families are being driven apart by war and bombs but also emotionally and no longer sharing a shared truth. ijust want and no longer sharing a shared truth. i just want to pick up and no longer sharing a shared truth. ijust want to pick up on what henry was saying about social media and winning hearts and minds. my media and winning hearts and minds. my facebook�*s parent company took the extraordinary decision to suspend its pay additional calls for violence against russians. 0k, they have been blocked in russia so it is just a business decision but talking about how not to win hearts and minds, it is an incredible decision. it does sound bizarre. i'm interested to see what the decision is for that. the group of people who

might have access to information other people have had president putin. have you detected in the conversations and contacts you have in russia any sense of unease within the regime. i in russia any sense of unease within the regime-— the regime. i would be very interested _ the regime. i would be very interested to _ the regime. i would be very interested to know - the regime. i would be very interested to know to - the regime. i would be very interested to know to what | the regime. i would be very - interested to know to what extent the greater— interested to know to what extent the greater kremlin, _ interested to know to what extent the greater kremlin, the - interested to know to what extent the greater kremlin, the tight- the greater kremlin, the tight circle — the greater kremlin, the tight circle around _ the greater kremlin, the tight circle around putin _ the greater kremlin, the tight circle around putin actually. circle around putin actually believes _ circle around putin actually believes this _ circle around putin actually believes this orwellian - circle around putin actually- believes this orwellian propaganda that they— believes this orwellian propaganda that they are — believes this orwellian propaganda that they are putting _ believes this orwellian propaganda that they are putting out. - believes this orwellian propaganda that they are putting out. iirilt�*hait- believes this orwellian propaganda that they are putting out. what are we talkin: that they are putting out. what are we talking about? _ that they are putting out. what are we talking about? a _ that they are putting out. what are we talking about? a couple - that they are putting out. what are we talking about? a couple of- we talking about? a couple of hundred? aha, we talking about? a couple of hundred? �* .., , we talking about? a couple of hundred? ~ _, , ., , hundred? a couple dozen. it is shrinking- _ hundred? a couple dozen. it is shrinking- i— hundred? a couple dozen. it is shrinking. i always _ hundred? a couple dozen. it is shrinking. i always used - hundred? a couple dozen. it is shrinking. i always used to - hundred? a couple dozen. it is. shrinking. i always used to think hundred? a couple dozen. it is - shrinking. i always used to think of to tens— shrinking. i always used to think of to tens powers _ shrinking. i always used to think of to ten's powers resting _ shrinking. i always used to think of to ten's powers resting on- shrinking. i always used to think of to ten's powers resting on a - shrinking. i always used to think of to ten's powers resting on a three i to ten's powers resting on a three bed could — to ten's powers resting on a three bed could still— to ten's powers resting on a three bed could still say— to ten's powers resting on a three bed could still say you _ to ten's powers resting on a three bed could still say you have - to ten's powers resting on a three bed could still say you have the l bed could still say you have the oligarchs, — bed could still say you have the oligarchs, the _ bed could still say you have the oligarchs, the money— bed could still say you have the oligarchs, the money men, - bed could still say you have the oligarchs, the money men, the| oligarchs, the money men, the technocrats. _ oligarchs, the money men, the technocrats, people _ oligarchs, the money men, the technocrats, people like - oligarchs, the money men, the technocrats, people like the i oligarchs, the money men, the - technocrats, people like the foreign minister— technocrats, people like the foreign minister who— technocrats, people like the foreign minister who basically— technocrats, people like the foreign minister who basically can _ technocrats, people like the foreign minister who basically can be - technocrats, people like the foreign minister who basically can be a - minister who basically can be a politician — minister who basically can be a politician to _ minister who basically can be a politician to make _ minister who basically can be a politician to make the - minister who basically can be a politician to make the system i minister who basically can be a i politician to make the system and put essentially— politician to make the system and put essentially do _ politician to make the system and put essentially do what _ politician to make the system and put essentially do what they - politician to make the system and j put essentially do what they while getting _ put essentially do what they while getting quite _ put essentially do what they while getting quite rich— put essentially do what they while getting quite rich at _ put essentially do what they while getting quite rich at the _ put essentially do what they while getting quite rich at the same - put essentially do what they while i getting quite rich at the same time and then— getting quite rich at the same time and then the — getting quite rich at the same time and then the strong _ getting quite rich at the same time and then the strong man. - getting quite rich at the same time and then the strong man. the - getting quite rich at the same time| and then the strong man. the from the security— and then the strong man. the from the security apparatus _ and then the strong man. the from the security apparatus and - and then the strong man. the from the security apparatus and all- and then the strong man. the from the security apparatus and all of. the security apparatus and all of that _ the security apparatus and all of that i_ the security apparatus and all of that ithought— the security apparatus and all of that. i thought of— the security apparatus and all of that. i thought of this _ the security apparatus and all of that. i thought of this vesting i that. i thought of this vesting needs— that. i thought of this vesting needs to _ that. i thought of this vesting needs to he _ that. i thought of this vesting needs to be legs. _ that. i thought of this vesting needs to be legs. but - that. i thought of this vesting needs to be legs. but what i that. i thought of this vesting l needs to be legs. but what we that. i thought of this vesting - needs to be legs. but what we have come _ needs to be legs. but what we have come to— needs to be legs. but what we have come to realise _ needs to be legs. but what we have come to realise the _ needs to be legs. but what we have come to realise the last _ needs to be legs. but what we have come to realise the last two - needs to be legs. but what we have come to realise the last two weeksl come to realise the last two weeks is that— come to realise the last two weeks is that the — come to realise the last two weeks is that the influence _ come to realise the last two weeks is that the influence of _ come to realise the last two weeks is that the influence of those - come to realise the last two weeks is that the influence of those two l

is that the influence of those two first groups. _ is that the influence of those two first groups. the _ oligarchs and the influence of the strongman — oligarchs and the influence of the strongman is— oligarchs and the influence of the strongman is much— oligarchs and the influence of the strongman is much stronger. - oligarchs and the influence of the strongman is much stronger. thej oligarchs and the influence of the - strongman is much stronger. the key question— strongman is much stronger. the key question is— strongman is much stronger. the key question is what _ strongman is much stronger. the key question is what are _ strongman is much stronger. the key question is what are they— strongman is much stronger. the key question is what are they thinking - question is what are they thinking and i_ question is what are they thinking and i don't — question is what are they thinking and i don't know— question is what are they thinking and i don't know what— question is what are they thinking and i don't know what you - question is what are they thinking and i don't know what you think. question is what are they thinking i and i don't know what you think but i and i don't know what you think but i don't _ and i don't know what you think but idon't think— and i don't know what you think but i don't think anyone _ and i don't know what you think but i don't think anyone really - and i don't know what you think but i don't think anyone really knows. l i don't think anyone really knows. festival, — i don't think anyone really knows. festival, i— i don't think anyone really knows. festival, i would _ i don't think anyone really knows. festival, i would like _ i don't think anyone really knows. festival, i would like to _ idon't think anyone really knows. festival, i would like to say- i don't think anyone really knows. festival, i would like to say that i festival, i would like to say that the that the state, the regime created, years ago, in 2014, they created, years ago, in 2014, they created not an insistent world for the audience, for russian viewers and then believed in this nonexistent world. i think they started believing their own propaganda, that is what happened. 0therwise propaganda, that is what happened. otherwise you cannot explain to anyone this invasion. it is the first thing. the second thing is i think it is clear already that putin

got a very nonprofessional report regarding a leak from different sources and his deputy was put on home arrest. sources and his deputy was put on home arrest-— home arrest. house arrest, yes? element house _ home arrest. house arrest, yes? element house arrest, _ home arrest. house arrest, yes? element house arrest, yes. - home arrest. house arrest, yes? element house arrest, yes. in i home arrest. house arrest, yes? | element house arrest, yes. in this particular general reported about what is going on in ukraine. so it looks like the kremlin understanding that they knew nothing about what is going on in ukraine really. president biden on friday again returned to the question of sanctions. president putin had said on thursday, the first address tea is made on the subject publicly, some things are going to hurt but we

are going to mitigate the effects. biden has moved fast. is there any frustration that the pace at which the europeans and british are moving because they are manifestly moving at a slower pace in terms of banning oil and gas imports. fin at a slower pace in terms of banning oil and gas imports.— oil and gas imports. on the field ruestion oil and gas imports. on the field question you _ oil and gas imports. on the field question you are _ oil and gas imports. on the field question you are right. - oil and gas imports. on the field question you are right. there . oil and gas imports. on the field question you are right. there is| oil and gas imports. on the field| question you are right. there is a two speed — question you are right. there is a two speed effort going on. in some of the _ two speed effort going on. in some of the previous ones, sanctioning actuat— of the previous ones, sanctioning actual people, for example, the lawmakers who voted for in favour of this recognising the breakaway republics and other oligarchs and some _ republics and other oligarchs and some of— republics and other oligarchs and some of the other sanctions that have _ some of the other sanctions that have been— some of the other sanctions that have been applied i think there was much _ have been applied i think there was much more — have been applied i think there was much more unanimity and a bit more synchronicity— much more unanimity and a bit more synchronicity in terms of when they actually _ synchronicity in terms of when they actually imposed the sanctions. and actually, _ actually imposed the sanctions. and actually, although biden, you know, did announce this ban on oil and imports — did announce this ban on oil and imports from russia and then on some products— imports from russia and then on some products that perhaps put ten more on them _ products that perhaps put ten more

on them by— products that perhaps put ten more on them by revoking this most—favoured—nation trading status there _ most—favoured—nation trading status there are _ most—favoured—nation trading status there are some sympathy in washington that europe, of course, is in a _ washington that europe, of course, is in a very— washington that europe, of course, is in a very different situation from — is in a very different situation from the _ is in a very different situation from the us when it comes to the lions— from the us when it comes to the lions in_ from the us when it comes to the lions in russian fuel and russian products — lions in russian fuel and russian products. you look at what the us imports _ products. you look at what the us imports in — products. you look at what the us imports in terms of barrels of oil from _ imports in terms of barrels of oil from russia. it is only about 700,000 _ from russia. it is only about 700,000 a day whereas for europe it is 4 million — 700,000 a day whereas for europe it is 4 million. and then you look at some _ is 4 million. and then you look at some european countries that are one, _ some european countries that are one. on— some european countries that are one. on this — some european countries that are one, on this 100% reliant on russian -as one, on this 100% reliant on russian gas so _ one, on this 100% reliant on russian gas so to— one, on this 100% reliant on russian gas so to tell their people that now you need _ gas so to tell their people that now you need to freeze our actually be paying _ you need to freeze our actually be paying through the roof for home heating _ paying through the roof for home heating and home kicking is going to be heating and home kicking is going to he very— heating and home kicking is going to be very difficult. there are some compassion there within washington us to europe trying to go a little bit slower— us to europe trying to go a little bit slower and also recognising that, _ bit slower and also recognising that, for— bit slower and also recognising that, for example, you have the chance — that, for example, you have the chance of— that, for example, you have the chance of that in germany already taking _ chance of that in germany already taking that step of suspending the nord stream to pipeline which the biden— nord stream to pipeline which the biden administration had wanted for a long _ biden administration had wanted for a long time. another actually have done _ a long time. another actually have done the — a long time. another actually have done. the figures gave it a dramatic, _

done. the figures gave it a dramatic, only 2% of that is to the uk. dramatic, only 2% of that is to the uk the _ dramatic, only 2% of that is to the uk the rest— dramatic, only 2% of that is to the uk. the rest of the eu. 8% the us. europe _ uk. the rest of the eu. 8% the us. europe is— uk. the rest of the eu. 8% the us. europe is absolutely exposed. | uk. the rest of the eu. 8% the us. europe is absolutely exposed. i was thinkin: , europe is absolutely exposed. i was thinking. when _ europe is absolutely exposed. i was thinking, when this _ europe is absolutely exposed. i was thinking, when this first _ europe is absolutely exposed. i was thinking, when this first started, on the _ thinking, when this first started, on the first— thinking, when this first started, on the first week, _ thinking, when this first started, on the first week, few— thinking, when this first started, on the first week, few days, - on the first week, few days, everyone _ on the first week, few days, everyone was _ on the first week, few days, everyone was so _ on the first week, few days, everyone was so shocked i on the first week, few days, everyone was so shocked by on the first week, few days, - everyone was so shocked by what happened — everyone was so shocked by what happened and _ everyone was so shocked by what happened and then _ everyone was so shocked by what happened and then suddenly- everyone was so shocked by what - happened and then suddenly everybody came together~ — happened and then suddenly everybody came together~ i— happened and then suddenly everybody came together. i mean, _ happened and then suddenly everybody came together. i mean, the _ happened and then suddenly everybody came together. i mean, the response l came together. i mean, the response was quite _ came together. i mean, the response was quite incredible. _ came together. i mean, the response was quite incredible. europe - came together. i mean, the response was quite incredible. europe which. was quite incredible. europe which we think— was quite incredible. europe which we think of— was quite incredible. europe which we think of as _ was quite incredible. europe which we think of as being _ was quite incredible. europe which we think of as being kind - was quite incredible. europe which we think of as being kind of- we think of as being kind of congenitally— we think of as being kind of congenitally disunited - we think of as being kind of congenitally disunited for. we think of as being kind of. congenitally disunited for the we think of as being kind of- congenitally disunited for the came together— congenitally disunited for the came together on— congenitally disunited for the came together on this _ congenitally disunited for the came together on this and _ congenitally disunited for the came together on this and i _ congenitally disunited for the came together on this and i was - congenitally disunited for the came together on this and i was thinking | together on this and i was thinking in those _ together on this and i was thinking in those days— together on this and i was thinking in those days and _ together on this and i was thinking in those days and i— together on this and i was thinking in those days and i was _ together on this and i was thinking in those days and i was talking - together on this and i was thinking in those days and i was talking to i in those days and i was talking to people _ in those days and i was talking to people inside _ in those days and i was talking to people inside russia _ in those days and i was talking to people inside russia in _ in those days and i was talking to people inside russia in moscow. in those days and i was talking to . people inside russia in moscow and trying _ people inside russia in moscow and trying to— people inside russia in moscow and trying to figure _ people inside russia in moscow and trying to figure out _ people inside russia in moscow and trying to figure out what _ people inside russia in moscow and trying to figure out what was - people inside russia in moscow and trying to figure out what was goingl trying to figure out what was going on inside _ trying to figure out what was going on inside the — trying to figure out what was going on inside the kremlin— trying to figure out what was going on inside the kremlin and - trying to figure out what was going on inside the kremlin and would i on inside the kremlin and would anyone — on inside the kremlin and would anyone turn— on inside the kremlin and would anyone turn again _ on inside the kremlin and would anyone turn again putin - on inside the kremlin and would anyone turn again putin if- on inside the kremlin and would anyone turn again putin if the i anyone turn again putin if the consequences, _ anyone turn again putin if the consequences, economic- anyone turn again putin if the _ consequences, economic consequences, lifestyle _ consequences, economic consequences, lifestyle consequences _ consequences, economic consequences, lifestyle consequences for _ consequences, economic consequences, lifestyle consequences for these - lifestyle consequences for these people _ lifestyle consequences for these people seem _ lifestyle consequences for these people seem dire _ lifestyle consequences for these people seem dire enough. - lifestyle consequences for these people seem dire enough. and i lifestyle consequences for these - people seem dire enough. and there was a _ people seem dire enough. and there was a moment— people seem dire enough. and there was a moment i_ people seem dire enough. and there was a moment i wondered _ people seem dire enough. and there was a moment i wondered whether, i people seem dire enough. and there . was a moment i wondered whether, if, in those _ was a moment i wondered whether, if, in those early— was a moment i wondered whether, if, in those early days— was a moment i wondered whether, if, in those early days when _ was a moment i wondered whether, if, in those early days when they - was a moment i wondered whether, if, in those early days when they were - in those early days when they were piling _ in those early days when they were piling on— in those early days when they were piling on the — in those early days when they were piling on the pressure, _ in those early days when they were piling on the pressure, day- in those early days when they were piling on the pressure, day by- in those early days when they were piling on the pressure, day by day, j piling on the pressure, day by day, and it— piling on the pressure, day by day, and it was— piling on the pressure, day by day, and it was getting _ piling on the pressure, day by day,

and it was getting bigger— piling on the pressure, day by day, and it was getting bigger and - and it was getting bigger and bigger. — and it was getting bigger and bigger. europe _ and it was getting bigger and bigger, europe had - and it was getting bigger and bigger, europe had said, - and it was getting bigger and bigger, europe had said, you and it was getting bigger and - bigger, europe had said, you know what. _ bigger, europe had said, you know what. we're — bigger, europe had said, you know what. we're not _ bigger, europe had said, you know what, we're not going _ bigger, europe had said, you know what, we're not going to _ bigger, europe had said, you know what, we're not going to buy- bigger, europe had said, you know what, we're not going to buy yourl what, we're not going to buy your gas _ what, we're not going to buy your gas don't— what, we're not going to buy your gas don't care _ what, we're not going to buy your gas. don't care what _ what, we're not going to buy your gas. don't care what it _ what, we're not going to buy your gas. don't care what it costs. - what, we're not going to buy yourl gas. don't care what it costs. your print _ gas. don't care what it costs. your print money — gas. don't care what it costs. your print money. we _ gas. don't care what it costs. your print money. we will— gas. don't care what it costs. your print money. we will do _ gas. don't care what it costs. yourj print money. we will do whatever, you no _ print money. we will do whatever, you no i— print money. we will do whatever, you no. i wondered, _ print money. we will do whatever, you no. iwondered, at— print money. we will do whatever, you no. i wondered, at that - print money. we will do whatever, you no. i wondered, at that point, whether— you no. i wondered, at that point, whether there _ you no. i wondered, at that point, whether there might— you no. i wondered, at that point, whether there might have - you no. i wondered, at that point, whether there might have been i you no. i wondered, at that point, whether there might have been a. whether there might have been a palace _ whether there might have been a palace coup. _ whether there might have been a palace coup, whether— whether there might have been a palace coup, whether some - whether there might have been a palace coup, whether some of. whether there might have been ai palace coup, whether some of the people _ palace coup, whether some of the people around _ palace coup, whether some of the people around him, _ palace coup, whether some of the people around him, who - palace coup, whether some of the people around him, who had - palace coup, whether some of thej people around him, who had been around _ people around him, who had been around him — people around him, who had been around him for— people around him, who had been around him for15_ people around him, who had been around him for 15 or— people around him, who had been around him for 15 or 20 _ people around him, who had been around him for 15 or 20 years - people around him, who had been around him for 15 or 20 years and i around him for 15 or 20 years and have _ around him for 15 or 20 years and have got— around him for 15 or 20 years and have got very _ around him for 15 or 20 years and have got very rich, _ around him for 15 or 20 years and have got very rich, while - around him for 15 or 20 years and have got very rich, while soughti have got very rich, while sought affronting — have got very rich, while sought affronting availing _ have got very rich, while sought affronting availing against - have got very rich, while sought affronting availing against the l have got very rich, while sought. affronting availing against the west at home _ affronting availing against the west at home but. — affronting availing against the west at home but. you _ affronting availing against the west at home but, you know,. _ affronting availing against the west at home but, you know,.— at home but, you know,. this is russia's export. _ at home but, you know,. this is russia's export. the _

at home but, you know,. this is russia's export. the elevation l at home but, you know,. this is. russia's export. the elevation runs on oil and gas- _ russia's export. the elevation runs on oil and gas. that _ russia's export. the elevation runs on oil and gas. that is _ russia's export. the elevation runs on oil and gas. that is their- on oil and gas. that is their lifeblood _ on oil and gas. that is their lifeblood. that— on oil and gas. that is their lifeblood. that is— on oil and gas. that is their lifeblood. that is what - on oil and gas. that is theiri lifeblood. that is what gives on oil and gas. that is their- lifeblood. that is what gives them power. _ lifeblood. that is what gives them power. that — lifeblood. that is what gives them power. that is— lifeblood. that is what gives them power, that is what _ lifeblood. that is what gives them power, that is what gives - lifeblood. that is what gives them power, that is what gives them i lifeblood. that is what gives them . power, that is what gives them well. so i power, that is what gives them well. so i wondered — power, that is what gives them well. so i wondered whether— power, that is what gives them well. so i wondered whether some - power, that is what gives them well. so i wondered whether some of- power, that is what gives them well. i so i wondered whether some of those people. _ so i wondered whether some of those people. who. — so i wondered whether some of those people. who. you _ so i wondered whether some of those people, who, you know, _ so i wondered whether some of those people, who, you know, via _ so i wondered whether some of those people, who, you know, via look- so i wondered whether some of those people, who, you know, via look into| people, who, you know, via look into the west— people, who, you know, via look into the west are — people, who, you know, via look into the west are tempered _ people, who, you know, via look into the west are tempered go— people, who, you know, via look into the west are tempered go on- people, who, you know, via look intol the west are tempered go on holidays in their— the west are tempered go on holidays in their nice _ the west are tempered go on holidays in their nice and _ the west are tempered go on holidays in their nice and stay— the west are tempered go on holidays in their nice and stay in _ the west are tempered go on holidays in their nice and stay in their- in their nice and stay in their villas— in their nice and stay in their villas in— in their nice and stay in their villas in tuscany— in their nice and stay in their villas in tuscany and - in their nice and stay in their villas in tuscany and send i in their nice and stay in their. villas in tuscany and send their kids— villas in tuscany and send their kids to — villas in tuscany and send their kids to british _ villas in tuscany and send their kids to british boarding - villas in tuscany and send theirj kids to british boarding schools whether. — kids to british boarding schools whether. if— kids to british boarding schools whether, if there _ kids to british boarding schools whether, if there had _ kids to british boarding schools whether, if there had been - kids to british boarding schools whether, if there had been the| whether, if there had been the energy— whether, if there had been the energything. _ whether, if there had been the energything. if— whether, if there had been the energy thing, if you're - whether, if there had been the energy thing, if you're a - whether, if there had been the i energy thing, if you're a passat, whether, if there had been the - energy thing, if you're a passat, do you know— energy thing, if you're a passat, do you know what? _ energy thing, if you're a passat, do you know what? we're _ energy thing, if you're a passat, do you know what? we're not - energy thing, if you're a passat, do you know what? we're not buying i energy thing, if you're a passat, do i you know what? we're not buying your a-s. you know what? we're not buying your gas whether— you know what? we're not buying your gas. whether somebody— you know what? we're not buying your gas. whether somebody would - you know what? we're not buying your gas. whether somebody would admit i gas. whether somebody would admit against _ gas. whether somebody would admit against him — gas. whether somebody would admit against him the _ gas. whether somebody would admit against him. the speculation. - gas. whether somebody would admit against him. the speculation. but- gas. whether somebody would admit against him. the speculation. but i. against him. the speculation. but i that window— against him. the speculation. but i that window has _ against him. the speculation. but i that window has passed _ against him. the speculation. but i that window has passed now. - against him. the speculation. but i that window has passed now. vera, clearl , that window has passed now. vera, clearly. one — that window has passed now. vera, clearly, one side _ that window has passed now. vera, clearly, one side effect _ that window has passed now. vera, clearly, one side effect of— that window has passed now. vera, clearly, one side effect of the - that window has passed now. vera, clearly, one side effect of the kind i clearly, one side effect of the kind of surge in oil prices that actually means russia gets a bit more for what it does sell, the 20% and all the rest of it. but do you get the impression, from talking to friends in russia, that the sanctions i get hitting ordinary russians? are they yet feeling the effects of this? ida. yet feeling the effects of this? no, no, no, yet feeling the effects of this? no, no. no. they _ yet feeling the effects of this? no, no. no. they are — yet feeling the effects of this? idfr, no, no, they are panicking. there is a panic en masse. in saint petersburg. i mean, average people, because prices for food, petersburg. i mean, average people, because prices forfood, various simple food baskets, sugar, grains, going up every day. people try to buy something in advance and it is already short on shelves at supermarkets. people are panicking. and there is a problem with the banking system as well. so i think it hurts the average people from the beginning. from the second day, i would say. mr;

beginning. from the second day, i would sa . y . beginning. from the second day, i would say-— would say. my friends in moscow, man of would say. my friends in moscow, many of whom — would say. my friends in moscow, many of whom are _ would say. my friends in moscow, many of whom are journalists - would say. my friends in moscow, many of whom are journalists and j many of whom are journalists and many— many of whom are journalists and many of— many of whom are journalists and many of whom _ many of whom are journalists and many of whom have _ many of whom are journalists and many of whom have been - many of whom are journalists and many of whom have been forced i many of whom are journalists and i many of whom have been forced to flee because. — many of whom have been forced to flee because, as— many of whom have been forced to flee because, as you _ many of whom have been forced to flee because, as you said, - flee because, as you said, journalism _ flee because, as you said, journalism has _ flee because, as you said, journalism has effectivelyl flee because, as you said, - journalism has effectively become a crime _ journalism has effectively become a crime punishable _ journalism has effectively become a crime punishable by— journalism has effectively become a crime punishable by 50 _ journalism has effectively become a crime punishable by 50 years - journalism has effectively become a crime punishable by 50 years in - crime punishable by 50 years in 'ail, crime punishable by 50 years in jail. they— crime punishable by 50 years in jail. they now— crime punishable by 50 years in jail, they now find _ crime punishable by 50 years in jail, they now find themselves i crime punishable by 50 years inl jail, they now find themselves in crime punishable by 50 years in i jail, they now find themselves in a position— jail, they now find themselves in a position whereby, _ jail, they now find themselves in a position whereby, i— jail, they now find themselves in a position whereby, i have - jail, they now find themselves in a position whereby, i have got - jail, they now find themselves in a position whereby, i have got a - position whereby, i have got a friend — position whereby, i have got a friend who _ position whereby, i have got a friend who has _ position whereby, i have got a friend who has just _ position whereby, i have got a friend who hasjust left. - position whereby, i have got a friend who hasjust left. his i position whereby, i have got a i friend who has just left. his visa cards _ friend who has just left. his visa cards don't _ friend who has just left. his visa cards don't work _ friend who has just left. his visa cards don't work because - friend who has just left. his visa cards don't work because a - friend who has just left. his visa l cards don't work because a british sanctions. — cards don't work because a british sanctions. he _ cards don't work because a british sanctions, he cannot— cards don't work because a british sanctions, he cannot get- cards don't work because a british sanctions, he cannot get any- cards don't work because a british sanctions, he cannot get any thisl sanctions, he cannot get any this money— sanctions, he cannot get any this money out — sanctions, he cannot get any this money out of— sanctions, he cannot get any this money out of his _ sanctions, he cannot get any this money out of his bank— sanctions, he cannot get any this money out of his bank accounts i sanctions, he cannot get any thisi money out of his bank accounts in russia _ money out of his bank accounts in russia because _ money out of his bank accounts in russia because of— money out of his bank accounts in russia because of russian - money out of his bank accounts in| russia because of russian counter sanctions. — russia because of russian counter sanctions. some— russia because of russian counter sanctions, some of— russia because of russian counter sanctions, some of these - russia because of russian counter sanctions, some of these lectures| sanctions, some of these lectures are hurting — sanctions, some of these lectures are hurting the _ sanctions, some of these lectures are hurting the wrong _ sanctions, some of these lectures are hurting the wrong people. - sanctions, some of these lectures. are hurting the wrong people. you'll absolutely. — are hurting the wrong people. you'll absolutely, absolutely. _ are hurting the wrong people. you'll absolutely, absolutely. most - are hurting the wrong people. you'll absolutely, absolutely. most of - absolutely, absolutely. most of michael— absolutely, absolutely. most of michael expand _ absolutely, absolutely. most of michael expand themselves - absolutely, absolutely. most of michael expand themselves on| absolutely, absolutely. most of - michael expand themselves on tuesday morning _ michael expand themselves on tuesday morning without — michael expand themselves on tuesday morning without money. _ michael expand themselves on tuesday morning without money. no— michael expand themselves on tuesday morning without money.— morning without money. no money and the can morning without money. no money and they can work? — morning without money. no money and they can work? in _ morning without money. no money and they can work? in georgia, _ morning without money. no money and they can work? in georgia, in _ they can work? in georgia, in lstanbul. _ they can work? in georgia, in istanbul, no _ they can work? in georgia, in istanbul, no money. - they can work? in georgia, in istanbul, no money. cards. they can work? in georgia, in - istanbul, no money. cards stopped working. it is a disaster for istanbul, no money. cards stopped working. it is a disasterfor them. talking about unintended consequences, we have been here before, haven't we? exports of oil had not been made available by cards to the maccabees as a punishment. this is punishing herself a good cause but it is possible russia may by making it harder to get oil and

the mind is what impact that had after the war in 73 when arab countries punish those who had supported israel. that countries punish those who had supported israel.— countries punish those who had supported israel. countries punish those who had suorted israel. . ., supported israel. that was what some eo - le supported israel. that was what some people called — supported israel. that was what some people called the _ supported israel. that was what some people called the first _ supported israel. that was what some people called the first oil _ supported israel. that was what some people called the first oil shock- people called the first oil shock that the — people called the first oil shock that the world have experienced up to that _ that the world have experienced up to that point. and it meant that the us where. — to that point. and it meant that the us where, for example, under embargo with oil— us where, for example, under embargo with oil from _ us where, for example, under embargo with oil from the middle east and i think— with oil from the middle east and i think oil— with oil from the middle east and i think oil prices went up by about four fold — think oil prices went up by about fourfold. it think oil prices went up by about four fold. it was really felt certainly in the us and other parts of the _ certainly in the us and other parts of the world when i was fashioning and there — of the world when i was fashioning and there was really quite an uproar in the _ and there was really quite an uproar in the us— and there was really quite an uproar in the us over this and president nixon. _ in the us over this and president nixon. at — in the us over this and president nixon, at the time, was really grasping — nixon, at the time, was really grasping at the speedway is to try to get— grasping at the speedway is to try to get oil— grasping at the speedway is to try to get oil into the country and make sure it _ to get oil into the country and make sure it was — to get oil into the country and make sure it was not going to lead to his own downfall for that reason. what it though. — own downfall for that reason. what it though, is a more long—term effect. — it though, is a more long—term effect. on _ it though, is a more long—term effect, on the us, was a sort of

clearing — effect, on the us, was a sort of clearing of— effect, on the us, was a sort of clearing of the mind and the realisation that the us needed to develop — realisation that the us needed to develop different energy sources, that it _ develop different energy sources, that it could not only rely on the middle _ that it could not only rely on the middle east any longer. but it needed — middle east any longer. but it needed to increase domestic production, i needed to increase efficiency— production, i needed to increase efficiency and have led to a real soul searching when it came to energy— soul searching when it came to energy policy and then what you have now is _ energy policy and then what you have now is turn _ energy policy and then what you have now is turn of the wheel of when what happened within a few years is— when what happened within a few years is that the soviet union, then. — years is that the soviet union, then, actually became the word's largest— then, actually became the word's largest oil— then, actually became the word's largest oil producer. they started doing _ largest oil producer. they started doing a _ largest oil producer. they started doing a lot more production and exploration in siberia and so that ended _ exploration in siberia and so that ended up— exploration in siberia and so that ended up diversifying the overall supply_ ended up diversifying the overall supply so that there was not the sort of— supply so that there was not the sort of reliance on the middle east. and now— sort of reliance on the middle east. and now what do we see? the usa it is going _ and now what do we see? the usa it is going to _ and now what do we see? the usa it is going to ban russian oil, despite an is— is going to ban russian oil, despite an is actually talking about getting more _ an is actually talking about getting more oil— an is actually talking about getting more oil from, where? this middle east _ more oil from, where? this middle east saudi — more oil from, where? this middle east. saudi arabia. gr more oilfrom, where? this middle east. saudi arabia.— east. saudi arabia. or indeed, venezuela- — east. saudi arabia. or indeed, venezuela. i— east. saudi arabia. or indeed, venezuela. i saw— east. saudi arabia. or indeed, venezuela. i saw some - east. saudi arabia. or indeed, - venezuela. i saw some comments from the president of venice where the who was almost public enemy number

one in washington saying he had had a very respectful and cordial meeting with an last sunday talking about exactly this. accessing some of venezuela's oil.— of venezuela's oil. absolutely put u . of venezuela's oil. absolutely put u- ener: of venezuela's oil. absolutely put up energy shocks _ of venezuela's oil. absolutely put up energy shocks make _ of venezuela's oil. absolutely put up energy shocks make for - up energy shocks make for interesting bedfellows. you know ukraine incredibly _ interesting bedfellows. you know ukraine incredibly well _ interesting bedfellows. you know ukraine incredibly well and - interesting bedfellows. you know ukraine incredibly well and you i ukraine incredibly well and you lived there for seven years, you are back and forwards regularly and you have of friends there. it is a basque country and you showed me some of that when i visited for work and work with you. vast, beautiful country. agriculturally, so rich. and last week there were imposing export controls notjust a week but things as basic as poultry and eggs and almost everybody has got poetry around the country in such a rural country, a country with such big rural areas. country, a country with such big ruralareas. does country, a country with such big rural areas. does that suggest there will be getting seriously worried about food supplies? i will be getting seriously worried about food supplies?— will be getting seriously worried about food supplies? i think they are seriously _ about food supplies? i think they are seriously worried _ about food supplies? i think they are seriously worried about - are seriously worried about everything _ are seriously worried about everything i_ are seriously worried about everything. i think, - are seriously worried about everything. ithink, for- are seriously worried about everything. ithink, forthe| are seriously worried about - everything. ithink, forthe moment, from _ everything. ithink, forthe moment, from ukrainians— everything. ithink, forthe moment, from ukrainians i— everything. ithink, forthe moment, from ukrainians i am _ everything. ithink, forthe moment, from ukrainians i am speaking - everything. ithink, forthe moment, from ukrainians i am speaking to - everything. ithink, forthe moment, from ukrainians i am speaking to is. from ukrainians i am speaking to is that they— from ukrainians i am speaking to is that they are —

from ukrainians i am speaking to is that they are fighting _ from ukrainians i am speaking to is that they are fighting for _ from ukrainians i am speaking to is that they are fighting for their- that they are fighting for their lives. — that they are fighting for their lives. right? _ that they are fighting for their lives, right? cities— that they are fighting for their lives, right? cities like - that they are fighting for their. lives, right? cities like mauripol are encircled. _ lives, right? cities like mauripol are encircled. people _ lives, right? cities like mauripol are encircled. people are - lives, right? cities like mauripoli are encircled. people are melting snow— are encircled. people are melting snow to— are encircled. people are melting snow to drink _ are encircled. people are melting snow to drink. so _ are encircled. people are melting snow to drink. so i— are encircled. people are melting snow to drink. so i think- are encircled. people are melting snow to drink. so i think the - are encircled. people are melting snow to drink. so i think the sort| snow to drink. so i think the sort of slightly— snow to drink. so i think the sort of slightly longer— snow to drink. so i think the sort of slightly longer term, - snow to drink. so i think the sort of slightly longer term, you - snow to drink. so i think the sort. of slightly longer term, you know, you can _ of slightly longer term, you know, you can see — of slightly longer term, you know, you can see them _ of slightly longer term, you know, you can see them putting - of slightly longer term, you know, you can see them putting in - of slightly longer term, you know, you can see them putting in thesej you can see them putting in these policies _ you can see them putting in these policies which _ you can see them putting in these policies which will— you can see them putting in these policies which will be _ you can see them putting in these policies which will be kind - you can see them putting in these policies which will be kind of- policies which will be kind of government— policies which will be kind of government thinking - policies which will be kind of government thinking and . policies which will be kind of- government thinking and thinking for the long _ government thinking and thinking for the long term — government thinking and thinking for the long term but _ government thinking and thinking for the long term but the _ government thinking and thinking for the long term but the average - government thinking and thinking for| the long term but the average person is thinking. _ the long term but the average person is thinking. why— the long term but the average person is thinking, why do _ the long term but the average person is thinking, why do avon _ the long term but the average person is thinking, why do avon two? - the long term but the average person is thinking, why do avon two? how. is thinking, why do avon two? how can i_ is thinking, why do avon two? how can i live _ is thinking, why do avon two? how can i live once _ is thinking, why do avon two? how can i live once i— is thinking, why do avon two? how can i live once i have _ is thinking, why do avon two? how can i live once i have fun— is thinking, why do avon two? how can i live once i have fun there? i can i live once i have fun there? and _ can i live once i have fun there? and what— can i live once i have fun there? and what are _ can i live once i have fun there? and what are our— can i live once i have fun there? and what are our prospects - can i live once i have fun there? and what are our prospects for. can i live once i have fun there? . and what are our prospects for kind of maintaining _ and what are our prospects for kind of maintaining a _ and what are our prospects for kind of maintaining a independence - and what are our prospects for kind of maintaining a independence andl of maintaining a independence and those _ of maintaining a independence and those of— of maintaining a independence and those of the — of maintaining a independence and those of the month _ of maintaining a independence and those of the month that _ of maintaining a independence and those of the month that the - of maintaining a independence and those of the month that the ability| those of the month that the ability to move _ those of the month that the ability to move the _ those of the month that the ability to move. the other— those of the month that the ability to move. the other ones, - those of the month that the ability to move. the other ones, the - to move. the other ones, the surrounded _ to move. the other ones, the surrounded cities, _ to move. the other ones, the surrounded cities, they- to move. the other ones, the surrounded cities, they are i to move. the other ones, the - surrounded cities, they are facing the prospect— surrounded cities, they are facing the prospect of— surrounded cities, they are facing the prospect of potentially- surrounded cities, they are facing the prospect of potentially very . the prospect of potentially very lon- the prospect of potentially very long sieges. _ the prospect of potentially very long sieges, encirclement. - long sieges, encirclement. potentially— long sieges, encirclement. potentially starvation - long sieges, encirclement. - potentially starvation conditions. humanitarian supplies are not getting in. humanitarian supplies are not getting in— humanitarian supplies are not caettin in. , . ., getting in. they are not getting in. and if we see _ getting in. they are not getting in. and if we see the _ getting in. they are not getting in. and if we see the kind _ getting in. they are not getting in. and if we see the kind of— getting in. they are not getting in. and if we see the kind of tactics i and if we see the kind of tactics that russia _ and if we see the kind of tactics that russia and _ and if we see the kind of tactics that russia and the _ and if we see the kind of tactics that russia and the syrians - and if we see the kind of tacticsl that russia and the syrians used and if we see the kind of tactics. that russia and the syrians used in syria. _

that russia and the syrians used in syria. you — that russia and the syrians used in syria. you know. _ that russia and the syrians used in syria, you know, we _ that russia and the syrians used in syria, you know, we see _ that russia and the syrians used in syria, you know, we see what - that russia and the syrians used in syria, you know, we see what the| syria, you know, we see what the ukrainians— syria, you know, we see what the ukrainians might— syria, you know, we see what the ukrainians might be _ syria, you know, we see what the ukrainians might be looking - syria, you know, we see what the . ukrainians might be looking forward to this _ ukrainians might be looking forward to this is _ ukrainians might be looking forward to this is a _ ukrainians might be looking forward to this is a very— ukrainians might be looking forward to this is a very scary— ukrainians might be looking forward to this is a very scary prospect. - to this is a very scary prospect. had _ to this is a very scary prospect. had me. — to this is a very scary prospect. had me. i_ to this is a very scary prospect. had me. ijust— to this is a very scary prospect. had me, ijust wanted - to this is a very scary prospect. had me, ijust wanted to - to this is a very scary prospect. had me, ijust wanted to pick. to this is a very scary prospect. i had me, ijust wanted to pick up to this is a very scary prospect. - had me, ijust wanted to pick up on the consequences of this worldwide because one of the things i did not know until this conflict started is how much of a country like lebanon and i think yemen as well but lebanon in particular, is depended on ukrainian wheat. that is a country on its uppers. it is bankrupt. it is struggling to feed its people. and suddenly, ukrainianfeet struggling to feed its people. and suddenly, ukrainian feet and i think russia and ukraine together is about 30% of the traded wheat in the world, it is not there. it is not available. i mean, this is what it could be exported, couldn't it? in terms of instability, you crank

percent for europe and other parts of the but could start to feel that instability as well.— instability as well. political instability _ instability as well. political instability food _ instability as well. political instability food insecurity. | instability as well. political| instability food insecurity. i think. _ instability food insecurity. i think, for lebanon, is about to remember— think, for lebanon, is about to remember looking at those incredible photos _ remember looking at those incredible photos after the glass in the beirut port damaged a huge grain silos that is why— port damaged a huge grain silos that is why so— port damaged a huge grain silos that is why so much of lebanon's rain came _ is why so much of lebanon's rain came in— is why so much of lebanon's rain came in and _ is why so much of lebanon's rain came in and i think it is an amount that it— came in and i think it is an amount that it had— came in and i think it is an amount that it had relied on ukraine four was about— that it had relied on ukraine four was about 60% of its grain supply and as— was about 60% of its grain supply and as you — was about 60% of its grain supply and as you say, it is a completely bankrupt — and as you say, it is a completely bankrupt country now and it is desperately looking for other sources— desperately looking for other sources of grain and in egypt, as well. _ sources of grain and in egypt, as well. which _ sources of grain and in egypt, as well, which i think is the word's largest— well, which i think is the word's largest wheat importer, that is another country where fleet is incredibly subsidised by the government and rightfully so far population that is quite dependent and quite — population that is quite dependent and quite poor on wheat. and so their— and quite poor on wheat. and so their spices _ and quite poor on wheat. and so their spices start going up, which some _ their spices start going up, which some experts say could be happening already. _ some experts say could be happening already, obviously some prices are already— already, obviously some prices are already going up and in july, perhaps. _ already going up and in july, perhaps, being felt of the mall. you

could _ perhaps, being felt of the mall. you could be _ perhaps, being felt of the mall. you could be exporting political instability to those places and it is not _ instability to those places and it is notjust— instability to those places and it is notjust within instability to those places and it is not just within that sort of more clothes _ is not just within that sort of more clothes lying region. actually, a lot of— clothes lying region. actually, a lot of the — clothes lying region. actually, a lot of the beat goes as far as afield — lot of the beat goes as far as afield as— lot of the beat goes as far as afield as asia. indonesia has quarter— afield as asia. indonesia has quarter of its weed from ukraine and there. _ quarter of its weed from ukraine and there. it _ quarter of its weed from ukraine and there. it is _ quarter of its weed from ukraine and there, it is processed into instant noodles _ there, it is processed into instant noodles and snacks that pull people rely on _ noodles and snacks that pull people rely on so. — noodles and snacks that pull people rely on. so, you are right. this could _ rely on. so, you are right. this could actually be felt all the way out in _ could actually be felt all the way out in vehicles around the world to the ektent— out in vehicles around the world to the extent that today, i think, the united _ the extent that today, i think, the united nations food and agricultural organisation said that you can have 13 million— organisation said that you can have 13 million more people experiencing food insecurity by next year, and that is _ food insecurity by next year, and that is just — food insecurity by next year, and that isjust because of what is happening in what is often called the breadbasket of europe and certainly, perhaps, the breadbasket of the _ certainly, perhaps, the breadbasket of the world. pp certainly, perhaps, the breadbasket of the world-— of the world. pp to trading figures in chicago. _ of the world. pp to trading figures in chicago. the — of the world. pp to trading figures in chicago, the ones _ of the world. pp to trading figures in chicago, the ones i _ of the world. pp to trading figures in chicago, the ones i saw - of the world. pp to trading figures in chicago, the ones i saw most . of the world. pp to trading figures l in chicago, the ones i saw most was that the committee is 50% up, the cost, since the invasion. that is the bulk price. we have a you just at the end before we go. what worries you most about the trajectory of this war. about the way things are going? i trajectory of this war. about the way things are going?— way things are going? i think it miaht way things are going? i think it might last _ way things are going? i think it might last very _ way things are going? i think it might last very long. _ way things are going? i think it might last very long. and - way things are going? i think it might last very long. and i - way things are going? i think it might last very long. and i do | way things are going? i think it i might last very long. and i do not believe now, in this particular moment, that this war might be ended tomorrow or in a week. it does not look so. and, obviously, it is going

to be a huge wave of repressions inside russia as well. and unless, endless demand of deaths. henry. thinkin: endless demand of deaths. henry. thinking of — endless demand of deaths. henry. thinking of those _ endless demand of deaths. henry. thinking of those incredible - endless demand of deaths. henry. i thinking of those incredible numbers of people _ thinking of those incredible numbers of people escaping the country, that it is over— of people escaping the country, that it is over 25— of people escaping the country, that it is over 2.5 million now, catheters _ it is over 2.5 million now, catheters are children. women and children— catheters are children. women and children are being allowed out. men are fighting age are told to stay within— are fighting age are told to stay within ukraine. what is that due to a country— within ukraine. what is that due to a country long term? a value that is about— a country long term? a value that is about over— a country long term? a value that is about over one eighth of people under— about over one eighth of people under the — about over one eighth of people under the age of 18 in ukraine have left. under the age of 18 in ukraine have left what— under the age of 18 in ukraine have left. what does that mean demographically and for the future? this will— demographically and for the future? this will unfold for years to come. we have _ this will unfold for years to come. we have got a couple of minutes left. , .

we have got a couple of minutes left. , , , , ., left. henry is right. this is a catastrophe _ left. henry is right. this is a catastrophe for _ left. henry is right. this is a catastrophe for ukraine. - left. henry is right. this is a| catastrophe for ukraine. but left. henry is right. this is a - catastrophe for ukraine. but there is a question— catastrophe for ukraine. but there is a question here. _ catastrophe for ukraine. but there is a question here. if— catastrophe for ukraine. but there is a question here. if this - catastrophe for ukraine. but there is a question here. if this is, - catastrophe for ukraine. but there is a question here. if this is, and l is a question here. if this is, and vera _ is a question here. if this is, and vera touched _ is a question here. if this is, and vera touched on _ is a question here. if this is, and vera touched on this, _ is a question here. if this is, and vera touched on this, to- is a question here. if this is, and vera touched on this, to sense l is a question here. if this is, and. vera touched on this, to sense up being _ vera touched on this, to sense up being a _ vera touched on this, to sense up being a short _ vera touched on this, to sense up being a short war— vera touched on this, to sense up being a short war and _ vera touched on this, to sense up being a short war and let's - vera touched on this, to sense up being a short war and let's hope l vera touched on this, to sense upj being a short war and let's hope it is, being a short war and let's hope it is. and _ being a short war and let's hope it is. and that— being a short war and let's hope it is, and that ukraine _ being a short war and let's hope it is, and that ukraine comes- being a short war and let's hope it is, and that ukraine comes out. being a short war and let's hope it is, and that ukraine comes out of| being a short war and let's hope it. is, and that ukraine comes out of it with its— is, and that ukraine comes out of it with its independence _ is, and that ukraine comes out of it with its independence more - is, and that ukraine comes out of it with its independence more or- is, and that ukraine comes out of it with its independence more or less| with its independence more or less intact. _ with its independence more or less intact, ukraine— with its independence more or less intact, ukraine will— with its independence more or less intact, ukraine will end _ with its independence more or less intact, ukraine will end up - with its independence more or less intact, ukraine will end up being i intact, ukraine will end up being much _ intact, ukraine will end up being much stronger— intact, ukraine will end up being much stronger country— intact, ukraine will end up being much stronger country than - intact, ukraine will end up being much stronger country than it i intact, ukraine will end up being i much stronger country than it was when _ much stronger country than it was when it— much stronger country than it was when it went _ much stronger country than it was when it went in. _ much stronger country than it was when it went in. because - much stronger country than it was when it went in. because evasivel when it went in. because evasive question— when it went in. because evasive question of— when it went in. because evasive question of russian _ when it went in. because evasive question of russian speakers - when it went in. because evasive . question of russian speakers passes ukrainians— question of russian speakers passes ukrainians because _ question of russian speakers passes ukrainians because we _ question of russian speakers passes ukrainians because we have - question of russian speakers passes ukrainians because we have almosti ukrainians because we have almost entirely— ukrainians because we have almost entirely been — ukrainians because we have almost entirely been wiped _ ukrainians because we have almost entirely been wiped out _ ukrainians because we have almost entirely been wiped out by- ukrainians because we have almost entirely been wiped out by this - entirely been wiped out by this cataclysmic— entirely been wiped out by this cataclysmic event— entirely been wiped out by this cataclysmic event in _ entirely been wiped out by this cataclysmic event in this - entirely been wiped out by this i cataclysmic event in this common enemy _ cataclysmic event in this common enem . . . cataclysmic event in this common enem . . , ., cataclysmic event in this common enemy-- might _ cataclysmic event in this common enemy.- might come - cataclysmic event in this common enemy.- might come up i cataclysmic event in this common l enemy.- might come up to enemy. calls for might come up to the people — enemy. calls for might come up to the people of— enemy. calls for might come up to the people of russia, _ enemy. calls for might come up to the people of russia, on _ enemy. calls for might come up to the people of russia, on the - enemy. calls for might come up to the people of russia, on the other| the people of russia, on the other hand. _ the people of russia, on the other hand. vera — the people of russia, on the other hand. vera is— the people of russia, on the other hand, vera is quite _ the people of russia, on the other hand, vera is quite right— the people of russia, on the other hand, vera is quite right on - the people of russia, on the other hand, vera is quite right on this. i hand, vera is quite right on this. no matter— hand, vera is quite right on this. no matter how— hand, vera is quite right on this. no matter how long _ hand, vera is quite right on this. no matter how long this - hand, vera is quite right on this. no matter how long this war- hand, vera is quite right on this. | no matter how long this war goes hand, vera is quite right on this. - no matter how long this war goes on how it _ no matter how long this war goes on how it ends. — no matter how long this war goes on how it ends. it— no matter how long this war goes on how it ends, it is— no matter how long this war goes on how it ends, it is going _ no matter how long this war goes on how it ends, it is going to— no matter how long this war goes on how it ends, it is going to get- how it ends, it is going to get very. — how it ends, it is going to get very. very— how it ends, it is going to get very. very dark— how it ends, it is going to get very, very dark in— how it ends, it is going to get very, very dark in russia, - how it ends, it is going to get very, very dark in russia, i. how it ends, it is going to get- very, very dark in russia, i think, as vera _ very, very dark in russia, i think, as vera says. _ very, very dark in russia, i think, as vera says, repressions, - very, very dark in russia, i think, as vera says, repressions, the i as vera says, repressions, the economy— as vera says, repressions, the economy that _ as vera says, repressions, the economy that we _ as vera says, repressions, the economy that we talked - as vera says, repressions, the economy that we talked about| as vera says, repressions, the - economy that we talked about this kind of— economy that we talked about this kind of stuff. — economy that we talked about this kind of stuff, until— economy that we talked about this kind of stuff, until this _ economy that we talked about this kind of stuff, until this regime - economy that we talked about this kind of stuff, until this regime is. kind of stuff, until this regime is removed. — kind of stuff, until this regime is removed, things _ kind of stuff, until this regime is removed, things are _ kind of stuff, until this regime is removed, things are going - kind of stuff, until this regime is removed, things are going to. kind of stuff, until this regime is| removed, things are going to get dark~ _ removed, things are going to get

dark i_ removed, things are going to get dark~ l have _ removed, things are going to get dark. i have no— removed, things are going to get dark. i have no doubt— removed, things are going to get dark. i have no doubt that - removed, things are going to get dark. i have no doubt that this i removed, things are going to get. dark. i have no doubt that this war is the _ dark. i have no doubt that this war is the beginning _ dark. i have no doubt that this war is the beginning of— dark. i have no doubt that this war is the beginning of the _ dark. i have no doubt that this war is the beginning of the end - dark. i have no doubt that this war is the beginning of the end for- is the beginning of the end for vladimir— is the beginning of the end for vladimir putin. _ is the beginning of the end for vladimir putin. it _ is the beginning of the end for vladimir putin. it is _ is the beginning of the end for vladimir putin. it is a - is the beginning of the end forj vladimir putin. it is a question is the beginning of the end for. vladimir putin. it is a question of how long — vladimir putin. it is a question of how long the _ vladimir putin. it is a question of how long the undertakes - vladimir putin. it is a question of how long the undertakes to - vladimir putin. it is a question of| how long the undertakes to come vladimir putin. it is a question of. how long the undertakes to come to fruition _ how long the undertakes to come to fruition i_ how long the undertakes to come to fruition. i think, _ how long the undertakes to come to fruition. i think, you _ how long the undertakes to come to fruition. ithink, you know, - how long the undertakes to come to fruition. ithink, you know, at - how long the undertakes to come to fruition. i think, you know, at the i fruition. ithink, you know, at the end of— fruition. ithink, you know, at the end of the — fruition. ithink, you know, at the end of the day. _ fruition. ithink, you know, at the end of the day, all— fruition. ithink, you know, at the end of the day, all boys— fruition. ithink, you know, at the end of the day, all boys and - fruition. ithink, you know, at the end of the day, all boys and in. fruition. ithink, you know, at the end of the day, all boys and in a i end of the day, all boys and in a negotiated — end of the day, all boys and in a negotiated settlement. - end of the day, all boys and in a negotiated settlement. and - end of the day, all boys and in a negotiated settlement. and i. end of the day, all boys and in a - negotiated settlement. and i picked this week— negotiated settlement. and i picked this week there _ negotiated settlement. and i picked this week there were _ negotiated settlement. and i picked this week there were kinder - negotiated settlement. and i picked this week there were kinder than . negotiated settlement. and i picked this week there were kinder than a i this week there were kinder than a place _ this week there were kinder than a place where — this week there were kinder than a place where it _ this week there were kinder than a place where it could _ this week there were kinder than a place where it could either - this week there were kinder than a place where it could either war- this week there were kinder than a i place where it could either war with a negotiated — place where it could either war with a negotiated settlement _ place where it could either war with a negotiated settlement perhaps. a negotiated settlement perhaps something — a negotiated settlement perhaps something recognising _ a negotiated settlement perhaps something recognising crimea i a negotiated settlement perhaps something recognising crimea at a negotiated settlement perhaps- something recognising crimea at the separatist— something recognising crimea at the separatist republics— something recognising crimea at the separatist republics and _ something recognising crimea at the separatist republics and neutrality i separatist republics and neutrality for ukraine. — separatist republics and neutrality for ukraine. or— separatist republics and neutrality for ukraine, or a _ separatist republics and neutrality for ukraine, or a long _ separatist republics and neutrality for ukraine, or a long war. - separatist republics and neutrality for ukraine, or a long war. and i separatist republics and neutrality for ukraine, ora long war. and i. for ukraine, or a long war. and i think— for ukraine, or a long war. and i think there — for ukraine, or a long war. and i think there were _ for ukraine, or a long war. and i think there were kinder- for ukraine, or a long war. and i think there were kinder than - for ukraine, ora long war. and i| think there were kinder than that for ukraine, ora long war. and i. think there were kinder than that to that point— think there were kinder than that to that point when _ think there were kinder than that to that point when we _ think there were kinder than that to that point when we saw— think there were kinder than that to that point when we saw talks - think there were kinder than that to that point when we saw talks in - that point when we saw talks in turkey— that point when we saw talks in turkey that _ that point when we saw talks in turkey that it'll _ that point when we saw talks in turkey that it'll go _ that point when we saw talks in turkey that it'll go and - that point when we saw talks in turkey that it'll go and that - that point when we saw talks in turkey that it'll go and that is l turkey that it'll go and that is being — turkey that it'll go and that is being decided _ turkey that it'll go and that is being decided right _ turkey that it'll go and that is being decided right now. - turkey that it'll go and that is being decided right now. thank you all very much- _ being decided right now. thank you all very much- l _ being decided right now. thank you all very much. i look— being decided right now. thank you all very much. i look forward - being decided right now. thank you all very much. i look forward to - all very much. i look forward to welcoming you into the studio very soon to have hammy back in with us as well. gabriel, lovely to see. see you again soon i hope. this is it from late payment in. see you again next weekend. goodbye.

good evening. well, the weekend is almost upon us now, and the weather's looking a little bit mixed over the next few days. it's been turning increasingly unsettled through the day on friday. this was the picture in cornwall during the afternoon. so, a bit of sunshine, some big shower clowns around as well, and we will continue to see that mix of sunshine and showers through the course of the weekend. we've got one weather front which is clearing off towards the north—east, another one following in its wake and then another area of low pressure approaching from the atlantic. so, low pressure in charge over the next couple of days. plenty of showers, lots of cloud around across much of the uk through the course of tonight. fairly breezy, too, especially up towards the northern isles and for southern england. so, temperatures 6—7 degrees for most of us, a little bit cooler for northern ireland with lighter winds and clearer skies here. could be some misty patches, in fact, to start off your day on saturday. but after a fairly cloudy,

drizzly start for most areas, there is some sunshine developing in the south. sunday spells for much of southern england up towards northern ireland as well before the next area of wet, windy weather arrives from the south—west later on. temperatures about 9—13 degrees for most of us, a little bit cooler where the showers persist for the north of scotland. but let's concentrate on the wind gusts for south west england and south wales, 50 to perhaps 60 mph gusts later on on saturday afternoon during the evening. so, some really windy weather developing as we move through saturday night and on into sunday. the winds progressing more widely across the uk as we start the second half of the weekend. so, sunday morning, again it's looking frost—free, it is looking cloudy, breezy and damp from the word go. so, outbreaks of rain with us on sunday. as you can see, low pressure is in charge, lots of isobars on the map, so another windy spell of weather, particularly windy closer to that area of low pressure. around some of these irish sea coasts, gales developing with gusts of 50—60 mph, but breezy wherever you are. and you can see a mix of some showery rain, but some sunny spells developing as well, especially later in the day. top temperatures a little bit cooler than recent days, between about 8—12 degrees

and feeling cooler in the breeze. but there will be some sunshine in between those showers as well. these are the gusts we're expecting, though, 50—60 mph through some of these irish sea coasts, the likes of pembrokshire up towards northern ireland. for instance, the isle of man looking very windy, but wherever you are, you'll notice that breeze. and looking ahead into next week, and higher pressure builds, so not completely dry, but it's looking drier and brighter. we could see temperatures in the south up to about 18 degrees by wednesday. bye— bye.

this is bbc news with the headlines. russia broadens its attack on ukraine, hitting more cities. an airstrike on the central eastern city of dnipro hits a nursery, an apartment block and a shoe factory. we have a report from the scene. this site is one of complete devastation. the smoke is still rising from the ruins of this building hours after the missiles struck. near the capital, kyiv, the exodus gathers pace as russian forces edge closer. president biden announces a new round of sanctions against russia, including revoking its most favoured nation status. this is going to make it harder for russia to do business with the united states, and doing it in unison with other nations that make up half

of the global economy will be another crushing blow.