�* blocking up and it accuses russia of blocking supplies. the french presidency has released more information about what was said during a 90 minute conversation with persistent putin and the french and german leaders. the statement said mr putin did not shower any willingness to end the war. now it is time for dateline london. hello and welcome the programme which brings together bbc specialists and the foreign correspondents, who write, blog and broadcast to audiences back home from the dateline: london. this week: two weeks oil and gas exports from russiae xport what are those in the middle

east to depend on it? controls on wheat etc. joining us this week: henry chu, an experienced foreign correspondent at the la times, who as the us west coast sleeps, is ensuring its readers are kept up to date on what's happening in ukraine. vera krichevskaya is a documentary film maker. she helped to found tv rain, an independent channel in russia which has now been shut down. gabriel gatehouse, internationsal editor for bbc television's newsnight programme, is here in the studio. thank you very much. and to vera forjoining us for the first time on this programme. i would like to start with you, if i may, how are russians are finding out about what the kremlin calls its special operation? good evening. can i start with the latest news in one hour and 30 minutes, instagram in russia will be

officially banned before, and this week, twitter and facebook was banned and all this started two weeks ago. the first day of the war. the new law was enforced that restricted to say the word "war" and to call it — the war — as a special operation. and another law was enforced saying you cannot quote any source regarding the war except the official sources of the russian ministry of defence or the russian news state media. it started two weeks ago. is there a way russians can get around this? are they finding ways to get information? the situation was changed several times. first week of the war, other independent media could work during the first seven days. even more,

maybe eight days. it was a kind of verbal game for example, tv rain, give voices for many ukrainians, many ukrainian experts, participated in podcasting. but later new amendments were aired and any fake information regarding the war became punishable by 15 years in prison. the authorities decide what is and is not fake. the sanctions are clearly having an impact. isn't there a risk in some of the social have closed access to their sites in russia. there is a danger that, actually, willing hearts and minds is not happening. is there enough of an effort to do that? it is a difficult challenge because to win

hearts and minds you need access to eyes and ears and, as vera wasjust saying, those avenues that are not from state sources are becoming fewer and fewer. it is not any more a war where nato, for example, is directly flying over russian airspace. and can drop leaflets on the people. it is much more electronic now. and when you have the majority people still relying on television, and if you are on the outside don't have access to those airwaves, then trying to actually get information over is going to be a really tough task. as vera said, social media has been shutdown, facebook, instagram and twitter, and the facebook parent organisation, meta, is being designated as extremist organisations.

even those russians, younger ones, by and large, getting information on _ online sources and social media. that does not necessarily mean they're getting western information. it could be from russian sources themselves and other pro—russian outlets, so finding that way out is really difficult. i think that perhaps the most effective appeals to hearts and minds has actually come from ukraine's president zelensky who speaks russian and has made direct appeal to the russian people in their own language to say, you know, this is not your war. why are your leaders doing this? and encouraging them to protest against that but again, if there are no avenues in than it is going to be very difficult to try to win those hearts and minds you talked about. i suppose there are informal connections, because so many ukrainians have russian relatives and vice versa. vast numbers.

i've been speaking to people in eastern ukraine by most. who say they have been talking to their relatives inside russia butl often you hear these heartbreaking tales of people saying, guys, i you guys are bombing us here. what are you doing? and their relatives on the other side of the divide saying, - we don't believe you. this is propaganda. these are the ukrainians doing it to themselves so you have - these heart—rending - situations where families are being driven apart by war and bombs, but also emotionally and no longer sharing a shared - truth. ijust want to pick up on what henry was saying about social— media and winning hearts and minds. meta, facebook's parent company took the extraordinary decision to _ suspend its prohibition on calls for violence against russians. i 0k, they have been blocked in russia so it is _ just a business decision but talking about how not to win hearts and i minds, it is an incredible decision. that does sound bizarre.

i'm interested to see what the explanation is for that. the group of people who might have access to information other people have had president putin. have you detected in the conversations and contacts you have in russia any sense of unease within the regime? i would be very interested to know to what extent i the greater kremlin, the tight circle around putin, actually. believes this orwellian propaganda that they are putting out. - what are we talking about? a couple of dozen, a hundred? a couple dozen. it is shrinking. i always used to think of puti's powers resting on a three - stool — you could still say you have the oligarchs, . the money men, the _ technocrats, people - like the foreign minister who basically can be a politician to make the system andi put essentially do what they while getting quite rich at the same time and then the strong men. -

the people from the security apparatus and all of - that. i thought of this power resting on two legs. i but what we have come - to realise the last two weeks is that the influence of those two first groups, the - oligarchs and the influence - of the strongman is much stronger. really, the key questioni is what are they thinking and i don't know what you think but l i don't think anyone really knows. i first of all, i would like to say that the that the state, the regime created, years ago, in 2014, they created not an existing world for the audience, for russian viewers and then believed in this nonexistent world. i think they started believing their own propaganda, that is what happened. otherwise you cannot explain to anyone this invasion. it is the first thing.

the second thing is i think it is clear already that putin got a very nonprofessional report regarding a leak from different sources and a general and his deputy was put on home arrest. house arrest, yes? house arrest, yes. and this particular general reported about what is going on in ukraine. so it looks like the kremlin started understanding that they knew nothing about what is going on in ukraine, really. president biden on friday again returned to the question of sanctions.

president putin had said on thursday, the first address i think he's made on the subject publicly, some things are going to hurt but we are going to mitigate the effects. biden has moved fast. is there any frustration that the pace at which the europeans and british are moving, because they are manifestly moving at a slower pace in terms of banning oil and gas imports. 0n the fuel question you are right. there is a two speed effort going on. in some of the previous ones, sanctioning actual people, for

example, the lawmakers who voted for in favour of this recognising the breakaway republics and other oligarchs and some of the other sanctions that have been applied i think there was much more unanimity and a bit more synchronicity in terms of when they actually imposed the sanctions. and actually, although biden, you know, did announce this ban on oil and imports from russia and then on some products that perhaps put ten more _ on them by revoking this most—favoured—nation trading status there are some sympathy in washington that europe, of course, is in a very different situation from the us when it comes to the reliance on russian fuel and russian products. you look at what the us imports in terms of barrels of oil from russia. it is only about 700,000 a day whereas for europe it is 4 million. and then you look at some european countries that are one, almost 100% reliant on russian gas so to tell their people that now_ you need to freeze or actually be paying through the roof for home heating and home kicking is going to be very difficult. there are some compassion there within washington as to europe trying to go a little bit slower, and also recognising that, for example, you have the chancellot in germany already taking that step of suspending the

nord stream to pipeline which the biden administration had wanted for a long time. and now they actually have done. the figures gave it a dramatic, only 2% of that is to the uk. the rest of the eu. 8% the us. europe is absolutely exposed. i was thinking, when this first started, - in the first week, few days, - everyone was so shocked by what happened and then suddenly everybody came together. i i mean, the response was quite incredible. | europe which we think of as being kind of. congenitally disunited for the came |together on this and i was thinking j in those days and i. was talking to people inside russia in moscow and _ trying to figure out what was going on inside the kremlin, and would i anyone turn again putin if the consequences, i economic consequences, - lifestyle consequences for these people seemed dire enough. and there was a moment i wondered whether, if, i in those early days i

when they were piling on the pressure, day by day, j and it was getting bigger and bigger, europe had said, l you know what, we're not going to buy your gas. don't care what it costs. we'll print money. we will do whatever, you no. i wondered, at that point, - whether there might have been a palace coup, whether some of- the people around him, who had been very rich, while sort of— ranting and railing against the west at home but, you know,. _ this is russia's export. the elevation runs on oil and gas. that is their lifeblood. that is what gives them power, j that is what gives them wealth. so i wondered whether some of those people, who, you know, _ rail against the west are go on holidays. i in their nice and stay in their. villas in tuscany and send their kids to british boarding schools

whether, if there had been the| energy thing, if you're - a passat, do you know what? we're not buying your gas. whether somebody would admit against him. - the speculation. but i that window has passed now. vera, clearly, one side effect of the kind of surge in oil prices that actually means russia gets a bit more for what it does sell, the 20% to china and all the rest of it. but do you get the impression, from talking to friends in russia, that the sanctions are yet hitting ordinary russians? are they yet feeling the effects of this? no, no, no, they are panicking. there is a panic en masse. in saint petersburg. i mean, average people, because prices forfood, various simple food baskets, sugar, grains, going up every day. people try to buy something in advance and it is already short on shelves at supermarkets. people are panicking. and there is a problem with the banking system as well. so i think it hurts

the average people from the beginning. from the second day, i would say. my friends in moscow, _ many of whom are journalists and many of whom have been forced to flee because, as you said, - journalism has effectively become |a crime punishable by 50 years in| jail, they now find - themselves in a position whereby, i have got a friend who has just left. his visa cards don't - work because of british sanctions, he cannot. get any this money out of his bank accounts in russia because of russian counter | sanctions, some of these lecturesj are hurting the wrong people. absolutely, absolutely. most of my colleagus found themselves on tuesday morning without money. no money and they can work? in georgia, in istanbul, no money. cards stopped working. it is a disaster for them. talking about unintended consequences, we have been here before, haven't we? exports of oil had not been

made available by cards , countries as a punishment. this is punishing herself a good cause but it is possible russia may by making it harder to get oil and gas. the mind is what impact that had after the war in 73 when arab countries punish those who had supported israel. that was what some people called the first oil shock that the world have experienced up to that point. and it meant that the us where, for example, under embargo with oil from the middle east and i think oil prices went up by about four fold. it was really felt certainly in the us and other parts of the world when there was rationing and there was really quite an uproar in the us over this and president nixon, at the time, was really grasping at the speedway is to try— to get oil into the country, and make sure it was not going to lead to his

own downfall for that reason. what it though, is a more long—term effect, on the us, was a sort of clearing of the mind and the realisation that the us needed to develop different energy sources, _ that it could not only rely on the middle east any longer. but it needed to increase domestic production, it needed to increase efficiency and have led to a real soul searching when it came to energy policy and then what you have now is an interesting turn of the wheel of history when what happened within a few years is that the soviet union, then, actually became the word's largest oil producer. they started doing a lot more production and exploration in siberia, and so that ended up diversifying the overall supply so that there was not the sort of reliance on the middle east. and now what do we see? the usa saying it is going to ban russian oil, despite an is actually talking about getting more oil from, where? this middle east. saudi arabia.

0r indeed, venezuela. i saw some comments from the president of venezuela where the who was almost public enemy number one in washington saying he had had a very respectful and cordial meeting with an last sunday talking about exactly this. accessing some of venezuela's oil. absolutely, energy shocks make for interesting bedfellows. you know ukraine incredibly well and you lived there for seven years, you are back and forwards regularly and you have of friends there. it is a vast country, and you showed me some of that when i visited for work and worked with you. vast, beautiful country. agriculturally, so rich. and last weekend they were imposing export controls notjust a week but things as basic as poultry and eggs and almost everybody has got poultry around the country in such a rural country, a country with such big rural areas. does that suggest there will be getting seriously worried

about food supplies? i think they are - seriously worried about everything. i think, for the moment, _ from ukrainians i am speaking to, is that they are fighting fortheir lives, right? cities like mauripol are encircled. people are melting snow to drink. so i think the sort of slightly longer term, you know, - you can see them putting in these policies which will be kind of- governmental thinking, l and thinking for the long term, but the average person is thinking, why do avon two? how can i live once i have run there? i and what are our prospects for kind of maintaining a independence and| those of the month that the ability to move. - the other ones, in these surrounded cities, they are facing _ the prospect of potentially very long sieges, encirclement. - potentially starvation conditions. 0utside humanitarian supplies are not getting in. they are not getting in.

and if we see the kind of tactics that russia i and the syrians used in syria, you know, we see - what the ukrainians might be looking forward to, and this is a very scary prospect. - henry, ijust wanted to pick up on the consequences of this worldwide because one of the things i did not know until this conflict started, is how much of a country like lebanon and i think yemen as well but lebanon in particular, is depended on ukrainian wheat. there is a country on its uppers. it is bankrupt. it is struggling to feed its people. and suddenly, ukrainian wheat and i think russia and ukraine together is about 30% of the traded wheat in the world, it is not there. it is not available. i mean, this is a war it could be exported, couldn't it? in terms of instability, you crank percent for europe and other parts of the but could start to feel that instability as well. political instability, and also just food insecurity. i think, for lebanon, is about to remember looking at those incredible photos

after the glass in the beirut port damaged those huge grain silos, that is why so much of lebanon's rain came in and i think it is an amount that it had relied on ukraine for was about 60% of its grain supply and, as you say, it is a completely bankrupt country now and it is desperately looking for other sources of grain and in egypt, as_ well, which i think is the word's largest wheat importer, that is another country where wheart is incredibly subsidised by the government, and rightfully so, for population that is quite dependent and quite poor on wheat. and so if those prices start going up, which some experts say could be happening already, obviously some prices are _ already going up and in july, perhaps, being felt all the more. you could be exporting political instability to those places and it is not just within that sort of more close—lying region. actually, a lot of the wheat goes as far as afield as asia.

indonesia has a quarter of its wheat from ukraine and there, it is processed into instant noodles and snacks that pull people rely on. so, you are right. this could actually be felt all the way out in ripples around the world to the extent that today, i think, the _ united nations food and agricultural organisation said that you can have 13 million more people experiencing food insecurity by next year, and that isjust because of what is happening in what is often called the breadbasket of europe and certainly, perhaps, the breadbasket of the world. wheat trading figures in chicago, the ones i saw most was that the committee is 50% up, the cost, since the invasion. that is the bulk price. we have a minute each just at the end before we go. what worries you most about the trajectory of this war? about the way things are going? i think it might last very long. and i do not believe now, in this particular moment, that this war might be ended

tomorrow or in a week. it does not look so. and, obviously, it is going to be a huge wave of repressions inside russia as well. and endless amount of deaths. henry. thinking of those incredible numbers of people escaping the country, i think that_ it is over 2.5 million now, catheters are children. women and children are being allowed out. men of fighting age are told to stay within ukraine. what is that due to a country long—term? already that is about over one eighth of people under the age of 18 in ukraine have left. what does that mean demographically and for the future? this will unfold for years to come. we have got a couple of minutes left.

henry is right. this is a catastrophe for ukraine. but there is a question here. if this is, and vera touched on this, to sense up- being a short war and let's hope it is, and that - ukraine comes out of it with its independence more or less intact, l ukraine will end up being a much stronger country than it was - when it went in. the corrosive question- of russian speakers passes ukrainians because we have almost entirely been wiped out by this - cataclysmic event- and this common enemy. russia, on the other hand, vera is quite right on this. no matter how long this war goes on how it ends, it is going to getl very, very dark in russia, i think, as vera says, repressions, the i

economy that we've talked about, all this kind of stuff, _ until this regime is removed, things are going to get - dark. i have no doubt that this war i is the beginning of the end for vladimir putin. it is a question of how long the end takes to come to l fruition. i think, you know, at the end of the day, all wars end in a. negotiated settlement. and i think, this week. there were kinder than a place where it could either war- with a negotiated settlement perhaps something recognising crimea at the separatist republics - and neutrality for- ukraine, or a long war. and i think we were kinder than that to i did not go incredibly well, and that is_ being decided right now. thank you all very much. i look forward to welcoming you into the studio very soon to have hammy back in with us as well. gabriel, lovely to see. see you again soon i hope. this is it from us. see you again next weekend.

goodbye. for these surfers in devon through the morning of the waters were a little choppy but actually it was a calm start to the weekend. also a lot of early sunshine around. the picture across the south—west of england is changing quite dramatically at the moment as this area of low pressure is approaching. cloud pushing in, wetter weather and they went strengthening. elsewhere, some sunshine to take us through the afternoon, increasingly so for scotland as this area of low pressure pulse northwards. this alone come into the south—west will mean some particularly strong winds for devon and cornwall on in into the early evening and especially around the coasts. gusts up to 60 mph.

wet weather as well to take us through the evening, the rain extending across whales as the evening goes on, eventually flinching into northern ireland and ending the night pushing into southern and western scotland. he areas will remain largely dry through the small hours and to the west, skies will clear behind this main band of rain but the showers will follow on, stirred up by the low pressure centre. for sunday perhaps our biggest question will be how quickly this weather front will peer from eastern areas, so how quickly things will brighten up and health potency showers courtesy of this area of low pressure will be across the uk through the course of the day. across eastern regions we will start the day with quite a bit of cloud, light rain and it should get brighter for the afternoon. shopper showers firing in from the west across england and wales, and for western scotland and northern ireland. a blustery story, gusts of wind protected around the irish sea coasts 50 or 60 mph. temperatures 11 or 12 should just about cover it.

into the week ahead and actually it is quite a lot of their weather to come. monday some questions about how heavy this rain across northern england and scotland will be. a chance it could break up to be something more shallow reef, and brighter spells but occasional heavy downpours. driest on monday for northern ireland and england and wales. but then as we look further on, quite a lot of fine weather for the uk as a whole. with the exclusion of wednesday, when most of us will see some rain at some stage.

this is bbc news — welcome if you're watching here in the uk or around the globe. our top stories. russian strikes cause more damage near ukraine's capital kyiv — as forces push into new areas across the country. president volodymyr zelensky remains defiant. 100% i am confident that we will win, there will be a victory, but 100% we don't really know when it happens. residents of the city of melitopol — which is under russian control — have reportedly come out to protest against the alleged abduction of the mayor by russian forces. ukraine says russian troops have captured the eastern outskirts of the besieged city of mariupol, one of moscow's main targets.