tv The Papers BBC News March 15, 2022 10:30pm-10:46pm GMT
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a memorable day for the fans here, then, and another unforgettable one for rachael blackmore. andy swiss, bbc news, cheltenham. with more on the plight of the many refugees leaving ukraine, let'sjoin reeta once again in lviv. 3 million people have now left ukraine and millions of others are moving around the country trying to reach safety. many have travelled on the country's rail system, one of the world's biggest. the network is also a lifeline that brings essential supplies into the country. our special correspondent fergal keane, who's here in lviv, reports on the massive effort to keep ukraine moving. train horn blares. one in three million. saved by the railways that are this country's lifeline.
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they come from across the second biggest country in europe after russia. it is war in my city. the children and i are scared of war. i don't like war. we went to meet the man leading the effort to rescue refugees. a former businessman, he's now in charge of the biggest evacuation in recent european history. oleksandr kamyshin heads a team of nearly a quarter of a million people keeping ukraine moving. this was him just weeks before the war, with french president emmanuel macron. in wartime, some of his colleagues don camouflage. he's talking by phone to a polish minister. we really developed passenger movement with poland. we increased the number of border points which operate.
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but the railway boss knows he's a target for the russians and never stays in one place too long. do you worry about your own personal safety? i do, as all normal people do. but i do worry more about those people who we save, as all railway men do. on platforms across the country, people are being rescued by mr kamyshin�*s trains. all bring stories of trauma. this is my grandfather, and he survived the second world war. he survived all of the atrocities which have been happening literally in kyiv, he was fleeing kyiv, his homeland, and this is the second time he has to flee. we are heartbroken, honestly, lam heartbroken. trains travel both ways. to the east and south, carrying aid, and to the front line, soldiers. this woman, aged 80,
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hasjust taken her great granddaughters to poland, but she wants to take a train home, despite the war. translation: everybody knows me, and i know everybody else. _ poland is good, but it is better to be at home. home is home. train whistle blows. 33 railway staff have been killed since the war began. it's hardly surprising their leader wants international protection. they hit the track daily, they hit the stations daily, they hit the trains daily, and we lose people because of this shelling, and the only thing we ask from the west is, close the sky. a no—fly zone isn't likely to happen for fear of igniting a wider european war. oleksandr kamyshin will keep moving, by car...
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..by rail, constantly switching routes, changing plans at the last minute, always, he hopes, a step ahead of those who would do him harm. the story of ukraine's survival in this war isn'tjust a story of weapons coming from abroad, but the resistance put up by the defenders. it's also the story of one of the most extraordinary railway operations ever mounted. fergal keane, bbc news, outside lviv. many people are facing a perilous time in ukraine, but here in lviv, which has not been touched by the russian assault, it's a different story. people were out this afternoon in large numbers, going for a stroll and enjoying the spring sunshine, showing just how much this is a country of stark contrasts right now. well, that's all from me and the whole team here
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in lviv this evening. now on bbc one we can join the bbc�*s news teams where you are. hello and welcome to our look ahead to what the the papers will be bringing us tomorrow. with me are the broadcaster, daisy mcandrew and tom newton dunn, presenter on times radio and talk tv. thank and talk tv. you both for being with us. good thank you both for being with us. good to see you. let's show you the front pages. the guardian leads with the ukrainian president's acknowledgement that his country would not become a nato member. president zelensky�*s comments are also on the front page of the telegraph. the newspaper says the concession opens the way for a potential peace deal with russia. the times says the president zelensky�*s statement came as russians shelled the ukrainian capital, kyiv. the i reports that the kremlin
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is expected to change its invasion tactics, in the face of ukrainian resistance. the financial times says the west is racheting up pressure on moscow, taking action against oligarchs and military leaders. the same story makes the front page of the metro, which says britain is declaring war on russia's richest people.(ani which says britain is declaring war on russia's richest people. let's start, daisy, with the guardian. this apparent concession as they see it, anyway, from president zelensky saying that ukraine won't seek membership of nato. how significant do you think that could be? i nato. how significant do you think that could be?— that could be? i think it is very significant- _ that could be? i think it is very significant. we _ that could be? i think it is very significant. we know _ that could be? i think it is very significant. we know it - that could be? i think it is very significant. we know it has - that could be? i think it is very i significant. we know it has been that could be? i think it is very - significant. we know it has been one of vladimir putin's redlines that he has the wood for the last 12 or even 15 years, he says it's encroachment of nato towards russian border is as a direct threat. he's been increasingly vocal over the last few years about ukraine almost de facto
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joining nato, so i think hearing president zelensky saying today that although i think his actual quote is worth reading in fall, he says for years we heard about the apparently open door that have already also heard that we will not enter there, and these are truths and must be acknowledged. it seems to my ears that there are very keen if —— carefully chosen words in an attempt to start some sort of negotiation, whether or not that will be enough to really get some movement there. i think it's also interesting to see there is a long essay today written by tony blair. now, now, it's not terribly fashionable, necessarily, to listen to tony by�*s advice on military or warfare issues, but he is making the point that there will have to be concessions of this nature, but equally he thinks nato should be stronger and some of the words and in fact saying as western
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allies have repeatedly said over the last couple of weeks, pretty much no matter what russia does, we will not engage militarily, nato will not engage militarily, nato will not engage militarily. tony blair says he thinks that's a tactical mistake, there has got to be some stick, and nato perhaps holding or threatening not to hold its fire while potentially negotiating something like this. so i think it does offer a glimmer of hope. it will obviously stick in the ukrainian�*s dilates, but it could provide a way out of that. �* , but it could provide a way out of that. v ., ., ~ but it could provide a way out of that. �* , . but it could provide a way out of that. �*, ., ., ~ ., , but it could provide a way out of that. �*, . , y�* that. let's look at the eye. they've not two that. let's look at the eye. they've got two interns _ that. let's look at the eye. they've got two interns to _ that. let's look at the eye. they've got two interns to plan _ that. let's look at the eye. they've got two interns to plan c, - that. let's look at the eye. they've got two interns to plan c, doesn't i got two interns to plan c, doesn't really say what a and b have been, but a war of attrition with long—range bombing of cities, mass destruction of infrastructure, etc. it is rather a different span from potential peace negotiations. how do you see this panning out? we know there are peace talks. you have any
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chance of success, do you think? that is something that has to be celebrated that they are at least happening. president zelensky saying they are _ happening. president zelensky saying they are going well. interesting to take campoli at his word, although he is _ take campoli at his word, although he is trying — take campoli at his word, although he is trying to put a positive spin on it_ he is trying to put a positive spin on it when— he is trying to put a positive spin on it when russia is pounding to smithereens vast chunks of his country — smithereens vast chunks of his country i_ smithereens vast chunks of his country. i also don't know quite what _ country. i also don't know quite what plan — country. i also don't know quite what plan b is, plan a was to walk ihahd_ what plan b is, plan a was to walk in and get — what plan b is, plan a was to walk in and get heralded with flowers as iiberaiors, — in and get heralded with flowers as liberators, that didn't happen. plan b went _ liberators, that didn't happen. plan b went very— liberators, that didn't happen. plan b went very quickly and i suppose plan c, _ b went very quickly and i suppose plan c, mass bombardment and an attempt _ plan c, mass bombardment and an attempt to— plan c, mass bombardment and an attempt to subdue the entire country by turning _ attempt to subdue the entire country by turning it into... i think this is very— by turning it into... i think this is very much in play. there is this horrendous — is very much in play. there is this horrendous expression giving russia and off— horrendous expression giving russia and off ramp which i presently ioaihes — and off ramp which i presently loathes that i used it myself, but they need a way out of this war. russia _ they need a way out of this war. russia is— they need a way out of this war. russia is not going to win it. it
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may— russia is not going to win it. it may turn the entirety of ukraine into rubble, but they are not going to subdue — into rubble, but they are not going to subdue an extremely passionate opposition and the people who live there _ opposition and the people who live there so _ opposition and the people who live there. so they need a way out. ukraine has today offered one out of three russian conditions, and that is to effectively declare neutrality by saying — is to effectively declare neutrality by saying they will neverjoin nato. two other— by saying they will neverjoin nato. two other big ones there, the other one is— two other big ones there, the other one is that — two other big ones there, the other one is that ukraine has to recognise crimea _ one is that ukraine has to recognise crimea is _ one is that ukraine has to recognise crimea is russian territory and the two others, — crimea is russian territory and the two others, the one other is to recognise _ two others, the one other is to recognise that two republics in the east as— recognise that two republics in the east as independent states. those are probably the two bigger asks rather— are probably the two bigger asks rather than the declaration of neutrality saying that ukraine won't 'oin neutrality saying that ukraine won't join nato, _ neutrality saying that ukraine won't join nato, but if vladimir putin wants— join nato, but if vladimir putin wants a — join nato, but if vladimir putin wants a way out of this work quickly, _ wants a way out of this work quickly, he should be grasping that one concession with both hands. i suspect— one concession with both hands. i suspect he — one concession with both hands. i suspect he will hold on for more. in the meantime, coming to the ft, the west is turning up the heat on moscow, yet more sanctions against the oligarchs, the military. does any of us actually make any difference, do you think? it
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any of us actually make any difference, do you think? it makes a difference, do you think? it makes a difference, but _ difference, do you think? it makes a difference, but it _ difference, do you think? it makes a difference, but it would've _ difference, do you think? it makes a difference, but it would've made - difference, but it would've made more of a difference if it had happened sooner. i know it's easy and tempting to fall into hindsight, but a lot of countries in the west have been caught falling asleep at the wheel on this one. whether or not we should have been imposing sanctions, we should have certainly been cleaning up and not allowing so much dirty russian money, particularly in this country, but other countries of the west. yes, it will work, but it is not a deterrent, because the war is already happening. any idea that vladimir putin is going to say some of my friends can't buy ferraris, what a shame, let's stop the war is clearly ridiculous. what would be much more effective is to really be able to stop funding the wire by buying russian energy, but, of course, one of the problems people to forget at the moment is even if we stop buying russian gas or
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russian energy, it is still being sold elsewhere, and as the price continues to bracket some of vladimir putin's government is still making more money than it was previously. so we are in a bit of a catch 22 and that is the most important area of stop we really need some european allies and countries to come up with radical solutions, as we must as well to try to wean ourselves off the energy. let's talk about this extraordinary woman, this russian state tv producer who staged a bat on air protest against the invasion, she had a big placard behind her, the newsreader, an act of immense courage. and she has been farming 30,000 roubles, £200,000, it could've been an awful lot worse. she could have been sentenced to years injail. absolutely incredible bravery.
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years in 'ail. absolutely incredible brave . .., years in 'ail. absolutely incredible brave. ,, ., bravery. extraordinary. ispent all da t in: bravery. extraordinary. ispent all day trying to _ bravery. extraordinary. i spent all day trying to pronounce _ bravery. extraordinary. ispent all day trying to pronounce her - bravery. extraordinary. ispent all. day trying to pronounce her surname as well, _ day trying to pronounce her surname as well, absolutely extraordinary person — as well, absolutely extraordinary oerson i— as well, absolutely extraordinary person. i think her plight has totally— person. i think her plight has totally captivated the globe today. we woke up this morning having seen incredible _ we woke up this morning having seen incredible pictures of her strumming her own— incredible pictures of her strumming her own channel, like someone running — her own channel, like someone running behind you right now working for the _ running behind you right now working for the bbc_ running behind you right now working for the bbc to declare the government is a fraud. the bravery to have _ government is a fraud. the bravery to have done that knowing she faced potentially 15 years in prison for doing _ potentially 15 years in prison for doing iust — potentially 15 years in prison for doing just that was quite extraordinary. she clearly feels very strongly about this work. we woke _ very strongly about this work. we woke up— very strongly about this work. we woke up this money to discover she'd .one woke up this money to discover she'd gone missing, arrested and taken somewhere for questioning. her lawyer— somewhere for questioning. her lawyer could not find her, we all then— lawyer could not find her, we all then feared the wares. something fascinating happened today, someone in moscow. _ fascinating happened today, someone in moscow, presumably the kremlin, put himself, realised he was about to turn— put himself, realised he was about to turn into — put himself, realised he was about to turn into a global martyr, for freedom — to turn into a global martyr, for freedom of— to turn into a global martyr, for freedom of speech and decided instead — freedom of speech and decided instead of giving her 15 years to - ive instead of giving her 15 years to give her— instead of giving her 15 years to give her a — instead of giving her 15 years to give hera fine, she instead of giving her 15 years to give her a fine, she was then freed. she then _ give her a fine, she was then freed. she then went out onto the steps of the police _ she then went out onto the steps of the police station and said the word
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invasion— the police station and said the word invasion that she'd been arrested, doubting _ invasion that she'd been arrested, doubling down on her bravery. you would _ doubling down on her bravery. you would certainly hope that she is untouchable and i suspect she will io untouchable and i suspect she will go on _ untouchable and i suspect she will go on to— untouchable and i suspect she will go on to be an icon of the peace movement in russia. and go on to be an icon of the peace movement in russia.— go on to be an icon of the peace movement in russia. and icon may be, but how many — movement in russia. and icon may be, but how many others _ movement in russia. and icon may be, but how many others are _ movement in russia. and icon may be, but how many others are going - movement in russia. and icon may be, but how many others are going to - but how many others are going to follow her lead. we have seen protests in many cities, but it's a relatively small number of people, isn't it? it relatively small number of people, isn't it? , ~ relatively small number of people, isn't it? , . , ., relatively small number of people, isn'tit? , . isn't it? it is. when you compare the imputation. _ isn't it? it is. when you compare the population, 150 _ isn't it? it is. when you compare the population, 150 million, - isn't it? it is. when you compare the population, 150 million, we i isn't it? it is. when you compare . the population, 150 million, we only seen the small amount of thousands in the street. they are rare and you have to think the more they are there the more they will grow, eventually word will spread amid a watch channel monies at night and see what happened last night. whether a mass posted —— protest makes _ whether a mass posted —— protest makes a _ whether a mass posted —— protest makes a difference is still questionable. i completely agree. it's possible that it's happening. what _ it's possible that it's happening. what is — it's possible that it's happening. what is your take on her? because in a way, thatjust a few seconds that she was on air has been incredibly powerful. i think it was five
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seconds or something before they cut away, but impaired —— incredibly powerful gesture. {th away, but impaired -- incredibly powerful gesture.— away, but impaired -- incredibly powerful gesture. of course, and real bravery- _ powerful gesture. of course, and real bravery. nobody _ powerful gesture. of course, and real bravery. nobody quite - powerful gesture. of course, and | real bravery. nobody quite knows, but it is thought to end their could've been up to 20 million russians watching that programme, albeit for those five seconds before they cut away from her. and i was reading some really, really interesting research from an academic professor about how many people of the population, what percentage of the population you need to reach a tipping point where it is a possibility that there could be a revolution looking at all sorts of revelations whether it was soviet countries trying to revolt against corrupt governments, and this professor thinks that it's about 3.5%. now, obviously, i'm not talking about a point ashley .5% of the population who are really committed and ready to take drastic action. now, nobody is saying that russia is there yet, that there are hundreds of thousands of people who
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