what they by the end of the year and what they are also saying that when you take into account that and their protection is about earnings, this will be the worst year, in their words, for living standards since records began in 1956. which is a pretty extraordinary thing to say and critically strong words from the government independent public sector organisation, the office for budget responsibility. find organisation, the office for budget responsibility-_ responsibility. and that puts this cost of living _ responsibility. and that puts this cost of living crisis _ responsibility. and that puts this cost of living crisis as _ responsibility. and that puts this cost of living crisis as we - responsibility. and that puts this cost of living crisis as we have . cost of living crisis as we have discussed, to some context for millions of households. we can show you the other headlines of the figures at the beginning of rishi sunak�*s spring statement and he was very keen to route the uncertainty, or most of it, in the war in ukraine. having knocked off some of his figures and forecast from last year. the inflation forecast to average 7.4%, the uk growth expectation downgraded quite significantly to 3.8% this year. and

then hovering around above and below 2% for subsequent years. at the uk is to spend £83 billion on debt interest in the next year, which was four times i think he said that last year, and £500 million of new money for household support fund which brings it up what was your overall impression, faisal? , , faisal? there is interesting measures _ faisal? there is interesting measures but _ faisal? there is interesting measures but the - faisal? there is interesting measures but the figure i faisal? there is interesting. measures but the figure that faisal? there is interesting - measures but the figure that courses through all of this is the very high inflation which affects everything, it affects how much borrowing there is, it affects obviously the debt interest payments too, and we have this, you know, it's reached 9%, pretty extraordinary stuff. in terms of the tax rise, that is going ahead. essentially injuly, after three months, half of it gets given

back mainly to lower earners in the form of a higher national insurance threshold and the rest of it goes back via a tax cut, per 1p cut in tax if conditions are met in the future. it tax if conditions are met in the future. , , ., _, ., future. it seems rather convoluted. it means he — future. it seems rather convoluted. it means he hasn't _ future. it seems rather convoluted. it means he hasn't had _ future. it seems rather convoluted. it means he hasn't had to - future. it seems rather convoluted. it means he hasn't had to reverse l it means he hasn't had to reverse the national insurance rise announced. he the national insurance rise announced.— the national insurance rise announced. , �* ., the national insurance rise announced. �* ., ., announced. he is saying i'm a tax cuttin: announced. he is saying i'm a tax cutting chancellor _ announced. he is saying i'm a tax cutting chancellor but _ announced. he is saying i'm a tax cutting chancellor but he's - announced. he is saying i'm a tax cutting chancellor but he's cut - announced. he is saying i'm a tax i cutting chancellor but he's cut back about one sixth of all the taxes that have been raised according to the obr. so you have still got the corporation tax going up, you have still got national insurance going up still got national insurance going up this april, albeit some of it will be given back three months later. you have council taxes going up. on the big cost of living issues that we identified, a small amount of further help on energy, domestic energy prices in that 5p cut in fuel

duty although again the obr pointed out that is rather ambitious to imagine that in a year's time you will get 5p plus inflation rise in march 2023. will get 5p plus inflation rise in march 2021— march 2023. politically, laura, there were _ march 2023. politically, laura, there were some _ march 2023. politically, laura, there were some surprises - march 2023. politically, laura,| there were some surprises from march 2023. politically, laura, - there were some surprises from rishi sunak, no wonder he kept everything closely guarded. particularly on the income tax announcement. although we talked about it before he took to his feet, and he will claim he can carry the mantle of being a lower tax chancellor. interesting though that he was compared with ted heath with an instagram account by rachel reeves, not nigel lawson she said. this disagreement between him and borisjohnson about the this disagreement between him and boris johnson about the rise this disagreement between him and borisjohnson about the rise in national insurance contributions, do you think that has driven to some extent the announcement today in terms of cutting in tax and rising

thresholds?— thresholds? you refer to a disagreement _ thresholds? you refer to a disagreement between - thresholds? you refer to a - disagreement between number ten thresholds? you refer to a _ disagreement between number ten and number 11 over the national insurance rise in the first place, to remind people what happened basically after the pandemic the prime minister was determined to have more money for social care and catching up with covid backlogs. rishi sunak said that is fine, you can take a hike if you think i'm going to give you the cash for that from behind the sofa you have to allow me to raise money somehow to pay for it. that's why they came up with the national insurance rise which for the first time on the face of it was directly linked and will appearso of it was directly linked and will appear so in people's payslips as something going specifically towards the nhs and social care. since then political backlash as to what the impact will be. the outcome today, rishi sunak does a significant thing making a big rise to the level at which people will have to pay that tax. so that should have been a shorter version, tax. so that should have been a shorterversion, but tax. so that should have been a shorter version, but to give you the backdrop of it. where it leaves

rishi sunak is having chosen overtly with that and the promise of an income tax, he had a windfall, a bit of freedom today in a grim picture and he's chosen to put some of that freedom to polish up his own credentials as somebody who believes in tax cuts. that's an interesting political choice, but in terms of the government explaining this, there is a bit of hokey coqui. you can have a bit back here, but i'm going to take a bit more here, and whether that is coherent in terms of ideological way of looking at it, i'm not so sure. but i think today no question it will keep a lot of people in the tory party happy because they will be able to say, look, we are cutting income tax! big caveat, in two years' time but i have never seen a chancellor tie not just his own or potentially his successors are a whole party's election campaign to have their hands tied at this stage in the cycle. hands tied at this stage in the cle. ~ ., ., hands tied at this stage in the cle. ~ . . , , hands tied at this stage in the cle. ~ ., ., , , ., hands tied at this stage in the cle. . ., , ,

cycle. we have had plenty of shocks over the last — cycle. we have had plenty of shocks over the last few _ cycle. we have had plenty of shocks over the last few years, _ cycle. we have had plenty of shocks over the last few years, who - cycle. we have had plenty of shocks over the last few years, who knowsl over the last few years, who knows what may be coming down the line. what about business because simon, as you said, a lot of the measures were not protected anyway. yes, there is this 5p cut in fuel duty, vat and certain energy—saving materials, is it going to be enough? the brutal reality is nothing in here _ the brutal reality is nothing in here now _ the brutal reality is nothing in here now that touches firms today, no boost _ here now that touches firms today, no boost to — here now that touches firms today, no boost to business confidence. for example _ no boost to business confidence. for example although there was that exemption or the removing of the threshold — exemption or the removing of the threshold for employees, no change in the _ threshold for employees, no change in the threshold for employers so they will— in the threshold for employers so they will pay the full whack. once again— they will pay the full whack. once again i_ they will pay the full whack. once again i think they will feel that when — again i think they will feel that when it— again i think they will feel that when it comes to getting extra money or making _ when it comes to getting extra money or making adjustments, they are the pinata _ or making adjustments, they are the pinata that _ or making adjustments, they are the pinata that gets whacked on till the sweets— pinata that gets whacked on till the sweets fall out. they weren't protected from energy price rises which _ protected from energy price rises

which were crippling, and after this budget— which were crippling, and after this budget of— which were crippling, and after this budget of course they are unprotected from the energy price rises, _ unprotected from the energy price rises, although they did say, actually— rises, although they did say, actually i _ rises, although they did say, actually i think what boris johnson said before the chancellor spoke was very interesting. he said we will look— very interesting. he said we will look at — very interesting. he said we will look at energy intensive industries like steet— look at energy intensive industries like steel and ceramics and there will he _ like steel and ceramics and there will be something in the energy security— will be something in the energy security package next week. also rishi sunak _ security package next week. also rishi sunak did _ security package next week. i"r rishi sunak did underline it is not cost free in terms of the sanctions that have been taken by the uk government. he was very keen again to say this is something he has had to say this is something he has had to work with, even though there are calls for further sanctions. and that actually economically or the state of the public finances could worsen significantly over the next six months or so. bud worsen significantly over the next six months or so.— worsen significantly over the next six months or so. and we shouldn't lose siaht six months or so. and we shouldn't lose sight of— six months or so. and we shouldn't lose sight of that. _ six months or so. and we shouldn't lose sight of that. that _ six months or so. and we shouldn't lose sight of that. that was - six months or so. and we shouldn't lose sight of that. that was in - lose sight of that. that was in black—and—white in his statement. he gave the figure of the amount going on debt interest, 80 billion, huge amounts of money, and you refer to

the comment that things could get significantly worse, which is a reminder to everybody watching today that actually whatever he said at the dispatch box just now, it is perfectly possible it all gets overtaken and in a bigger picture sense, when the obr predicts inflation at that kind of level, this might actually feel as if it is all in a sense... i don't want to say chicken feed because there are big measures announced but the bigger picture may be so challenging and difficult forfamilies bigger picture may be so challenging and difficult for families around the country that actually the measures rishi sunak is taking might feel like small beer in the months to come. ., ., i. , feel like small beer in the months to come. ., ., , ., feel like small beer in the months to come-_ iti to come. how do you see that? it will certainly _ to come. how do you see that? it will certainly feel— to come. how do you see that? it will certainly feel like _ to come. how do you see that? it will certainly feel like small - to come. how do you see that? it will certainly feel like small beerl will certainly feel like small beer four people _ will certainly feel like small beer four people on _ will certainly feel like small beer four people on the _ will certainly feel like small beer four people on the lowest - will certainly feel like small beer. four people on the lowest income. it's four people on the lowest income. it's going — four people on the lowest income. it's going to — four people on the lowest income. it's going to he _ four people on the lowest income. it's going to he a _ four people on the lowest income. it's going to be a big _ four people on the lowest income. it's going to be a big cut _ four people on the lowest income. it's going to be a big cut in - four people on the lowest income. it's going to be a big cut in living l it's going to be a big cut in living standards— it's going to be a big cut in living standards for— it's going to be a big cut in living standards for those _ it's going to be a big cut in living standards for those on _

it's going to be a big cut in living standards for those on the - it's going to be a big cut in living standards for those on the very. standards for those on the very lowest — standards for those on the very lowest incomes. _ standards for those on the very lowest incomes. the _ standards for those on the very lowest incomes. the rest - standards for those on the very lowest incomes. the rest of- standards for those on the very l lowest incomes. the rest of what he's done, — lowest incomes. the rest of what he's done, if— lowest incomes. the rest of what he's done, if you _ lowest incomes. the rest of what he's done, if you put— lowest incomes. the rest of what he's done, if you put together. lowest incomes. the rest of what . he's done, if you put together what he's done, if you put together what he did _ he's done, if you put together what he did in_ he's done, if you put together what he did in february— he's done, if you put together what he did in february with _ he's done, if you put together what he did in february with what - he's done, if you put together what he did in february with what he - he did in february with what he announced _ he did in february with what he announced today, _ he did in february with what he announced today, it _ he did in february with what he announced today, it is- he did in february with what he announced today, it is quite - he did in february with what he announced today, it is quite a i he did in february with what he . announced today, it is quite a big package, — announced today, it is quite a big package, lrut— announced today, it is quite a big package, but unfortunately- announced today, it is quite a big package, but unfortunately for. announced today, it is quite a big. package, but unfortunately for him and for— package, but unfortunately for him and for our— package, but unfortunately for him and for our living _ package, but unfortunately for him and for our living standards, - package, but unfortunately for him and for our living standards, it- package, but unfortunately for him and for our living standards, it is. and for our living standards, it is largely— and for our living standards, it is largely undone _ and for our living standards, it is largely undone by— and for our living standards, it is largely undone by the _ and for our living standards, it is largely undone by the fact - and for our living standards, it is largely undone by the fact we i and for our living standards, it is. largely undone by the fact we have this big _ largely undone by the fact we have this big national— largely undone by the fact we have this big national insurance - largely undone by the fact we have this big national insurance rise - this big national insurance rise coming — this big national insurance rise coming on _ this big national insurance rise coming on as— this big national insurance rise coming on as well. _ this big national insurance rise coming on as well. so - this big national insurance rise coming on as well. so you - this big national insurance rise coming on as well. so you put| this big national insurance rise . coming on as well. so you put all this big national insurance rise - coming on as well. so you put all of that together — coming on as well. so you put all of that together and _ coming on as well. so you put all of that together and there _ coming on as well. so you put all of that together and there will- coming on as well. so you put all of that together and there will still- that together and there will still be a that together and there will still he a lot— that together and there will still he a lot of— that together and there will still be a lot of households - that together and there will still be a lot of households are - be a lot of households are significantly— be a lot of households are significantly worse - be a lot of households are significantly worse off - be a lot of households are| significantly worse off over be a lot of households are - significantly worse off over the next _ significantly worse off over the next year. _ significantly worse off over the next year. but _ significantly worse off over the next year, but what _ significantly worse off over the next year, but what he - significantly worse off over the next year, but what he has - significantly worse off over the i next year, but what he has done significantly worse off over the - next year, but what he has done this time round _ next year, but what he has done this time round is — next year, but what he has done this time round is reduce _ next year, but what he has done this time round is reduce the _ next year, but what he has done this time round is reduce the impact - time round is reduce the impact particularly _ time round is reduce the impact particularly for— time round is reduce the impact particularly for low— time round is reduce the impact particularly for low and - time round is reduce the impact particularly for low and middle i particularly for low and middle earners — particularly for low and middle earners. �* , particularly for low and middle earners. h , , ., particularly for low and middle earners. h , earners. it's probably right to say it is a lower _ earners. it's probably right to say it is a lower rise _ earners. it's probably right to say it is a lower rise in _ earners. it's probably right to say it is a lower rise in national- it is a lower rise in national insurance _ it is a lower rise in national insurance. people at home are going to see _ insurance. people at home are going to see their— insurance. people at home are going to see their national insurance bills— to see their national insurance hills go— to see their national insurance bills go up in the next coming weeks. — bills go up in the next coming weeks, they will see their energy bills go— weeks, they will see their energy bills go up, petrol bills going up. in bills go up, petrol bills going up. in two— bills go up, petrol bills going up. in two or— bills go up, petrol bills going up. in two or three months, some of those _ in two or three months, some of those rises — in two or three months, some of those rises will be wound back by about _ those rises will be wound back by about half— those rises will be wound back by about half or more if you are in a certain— about half or more if you are in a certain bracket. then in two years' time, _ certain bracket. then in two years' time, we — certain bracket. then in two years' time, we should get a tax cut. but

interestingly the tax to gdp ratio graph, _ interestingly the tax to gdp ratio graph, one of the ones i was trying to find _ graph, one of the ones i was trying to find from — graph, one of the ones i was trying to find from the obr, seems to be higher— to find from the obr, seems to be higher than it was before. they are getting _ higher than it was before. they are getting so— higher than it was before. they are getting so much money from the fact inflation _ getting so much money from the fact inflation is _ getting so much money from the fact inflation is high and the thresholds are being — inflation is high and the thresholds are being kept frozen for something that the _ are being kept frozen for something that the ifs pointed out last week, that the ifs pointed out last week, that they— that the ifs pointed out last week, that they can recycle some of this stuff so _ that they can recycle some of this stuff so the amount of tax coming in is still— stuff so the amount of tax coming in is still really — stuff so the amount of tax coming in is still really quite high. according to the obr charts, higher historical— according to the obr charts, higher historical higher than it was before _ historical higher than it was before. ., �* , �* historical higher than it was before. . �*, ~ , ., ., ., before. that's right. a year ago he announced — before. that's right. a year ago he announced a _ before. that's right. a year ago he announced a freezing _ before. that's right. a year ago he announced a freezing of— before. that's right. a year ago he announced a freezing of the - before. that's right. a year ago he | announced a freezing of the income tax personal— announced a freezing of the income tax personal allowance _ announced a freezing of the income tax personal allowance for- announced a freezing of the income tax personal allowance for four - tax personal allowance for four years. — tax personal allowance for four years. now _ tax personal allowance for four years, now that _ tax personal allowance for four years, now that is _ tax personal allowance for four years, now that is a _ tax personal allowance for four years, now that is a tax - tax personal allowance for four years, now that is a tax rise i years, now that is a tax rise because _ years, now that is a tax rise because as _ years, now that is a tax rise because as earnings - years, now that is a tax rise because as earnings and - years, now that is a tax rise - because as earnings and inflation go up, because as earnings and inflation go up. more _ because as earnings and inflation go up. more of— because as earnings and inflation go up. more of your— because as earnings and inflation go up, more of your income _ because as earnings and inflation go up, more of your income gets - because as earnings and inflation go up, more of your income gets taken| up, more of your income gets taken in tax _ up, more of your income gets taken in tax it's_ up, more of your income gets taken in tax. it's turning _ up, more of your income gets taken in tax. it's turning out _ up, more of your income gets taken in tax. it's turning out that - up, more of your income gets taken in tax. it's turning out that tax - in tax. it's turning out that tax rise _ in tax. it's turning out that tax rise was— in tax. it's turning out that tax rise was 25— in tax. it's turning out that tax rise was 2.5 times _ in tax. it's turning out that tax rise was 2.5 times bigger- in tax. it's turning out that tax rise was 2.5 times bigger thanj in tax. it's turning out that tax i rise was 2.5 times bigger than he thought— rise was 2.5 times bigger than he thought and _ rise was 2.5 times bigger than he thought and intended _ rise was 2.5 times bigger than he thought and intended a _ rise was 2.5 times bigger than he thought and intended a year- rise was 2.5 times bigger than he thought and intended a year agol thought and intended a year ago because — thought and intended a year ago because inflation— thought and intended a year ago because inflation is— thought and intended a year ago because inflation is so— thought and intended a year ago because inflation is so much- thought and intended a year ago - because inflation is so much higher, so faisal— because inflation is so much higher, so faisal is — because inflation is so much higher, so faisal is right. _ because inflation is so much higher, so faisal is right. he's— because inflation is so much higher,

so faisal is right. he's introduced i so faisal is right. he's introduced some _ so faisal is right. he's introduced some of— so faisal is right. he's introduced some of these _ so faisal is right. he's introduced some of these tax _ so faisal is right. he's introduced some of these tax cuts _ so faisal is right. he's introduced some of these tax cuts or - so faisal is right. he's introduced . some of these tax cuts or reduction in the _ some of these tax cuts or reduction in the size — some of these tax cuts or reduction in the size of— some of these tax cuts or reduction in the size of the _ some of these tax cuts or reduction in the size of the increases, - some of these tax cuts or reduction in the size of the increases, but- in the size of the increases, but overall— in the size of the increases, but overall the _ in the size of the increases, but overall the burden _ in the size of the increases, but overall the burden on _ in the size of the increases, but overall the burden on the - in the size of the increases, but. overall the burden on the economy will not _ overall the burden on the economy will not fall— overall the burden on the economy will not fall relative _ overall the burden on the economy will not fall relative to _ overall the burden on the economy will not fall relative to what - overall the burden on the economy will not fall relative to what he - will not fall relative to what he was planning _ will not fall relative to what he was planning a _ will not fall relative to what he was planning a year— will not fall relative to what he was planning a year ago. - will not fall relative to what he was planning a year ago. it’s. will not fall relative to what he was planning a year ago.- was planning a year ago. it's a clever slow — was planning a year ago. it's a clever slow burner, _ was planning a year ago. it's a clever slow burner, you - was planning a year ago. it's a clever slow burner, you do - was planning a year ago. it's a i clever slow burner, you do this, reaping — clever slow burner, you do this, reaping the _ clever slow burner, you do this, reaping the revenue without having to announce it. is reaping the revenue without having to announce it.— to announce it. is that because there is still _ to announce it. is that because there is still this _ to announce it. is that because there is still this hope - to announce it. is that because there is still this hope that - there is still this hope that somehow over the next six, nine months, things might not get any worse. is it trying to put off what could be a big decision further down the line? because we have still got the line? because we have still got the expectation of a rise in the energy cap again in october. yes. the expectation of a rise in the energy cap again in october. yes, i think from — energy cap again in october. yes, i think from the _ energy cap again in october. yes, i think from the chancellor _ energy cap again in october. yes, i think from the chancellor shoes, i energy cap again in october. yes, i | think from the chancellor shoes, he will look— think from the chancellor shoes, he will look back and say this is only possible — will look back and say this is only possible because of the work we put in during _ possible because of the work we put in during the pandemic, and the jobs numbers— in during the pandemic, and the jobs numbers again, they would have taken this with _ numbers again, they would have taken this with bells on if we had said unemployment was going to be below 4% and _ unemployment was going to be below 4% and in_ unemployment was going to be below 4% and in the middle you would have a massive _ 4% and in the middle you would have a massive global pandemic. and as a

result— a massive global pandemic. and as a result there — a massive global pandemic. and as a result there is enough employment income _ result there is enough employment income being generated that even when _ income being generated that even when inflation goes up, the tax revenues— when inflation goes up, the tax revenues rise too. in when inflation goes up, the tax revenues rise too.— when inflation goes up, the tax revenues rise too. in terms of “obs, it is true, most of those * it is true, most of those predictions just haven't happened. people have remained, there are high levels of employment which will to some extent take the sting out. figs some extent take the sting out. as we some extent take the sting out. is we were saying before he got on his feet, business groups feared that if you look at the employment rate, february's gdp number and think things are robust enough for me to park some of my ammo until october and that is what the business community feared. they said for many businesses who are being exposed coast covid recovery type vehicles to the full glare of these energy price rises, confidence is flagging. something else i want to put to everyone really which is that when he puts through the national insurance rise, it was a £12 billion tax rise, he is now giving half of that back. at the time he sold it as

an earmarked fund, every single penny will go to the nhs and social care. does that mean £6 million now less goes to the nhs and social care. it was a fiction at the time. he said i have to increase it because _ he said i have to increase it because every penny will go to the nhs, _ because every penny will go to the nhs, and — because every penny will go to the nhs, and then he took away 6 billion — nhs, and then he took away 6 billion. but it's a myth, it doesn't have _ billion. but it's a myth, it doesn't have anything to do with the amount going _ have anything to do with the amount going to _ have anything to do with the amount going to the nhs. the have anything to do with the amount going to the nhs-— have anything to do with the amount going to the nhs. the thing to watch is public-sector _ going to the nhs. the thing to watch is public-sector pay _ going to the nhs. the thing to watch is public-sector pay because - going to the nhs. the thing to watch is public-sector pay because the - is public—sector pay because the treasury puts out a little noticed paper into the pay review body is kind of saying we know inflation will go up to around 5% as it was then, but keep your eye on the 2% target. it's now gone up to six, heading up to nine, but it will be at this six, seven, eight level for the rest of the year so it's much more difficult now for the government to turn around to teachers and nurses, everybody

really, police officers, and say oh no, you need to stick to three or 4%. i haven't read all the documents yet, i have seen nothing on that and thatis yet, i have seen nothing on that and that is 6 million workers and the pay review bodies are not due to report untiljuly. the pay will be set up 3%. another thing, they will get the real terms pay cut next month. ., , get the real terms pay cut next month. . , ., ., , , month. that is going to focus minds in terms of — month. that is going to focus minds in terms of people _ month. that is going to focus minds in terms of people wanting - month. that is going to focus minds in terms of people wanting to - month. that is going to focus minds in terms of people wanting to call. in terms of people wanting to call for pay rises. the in terms of people wanting to call for pay rises-— in terms of people wanting to call for pay rises. the government has ut for pay rises. the government has put evidence _ for pay rises. the government has put evidence into _ for pay rises. the government has put evidence into these _ for pay rises. the government has put evidence into these teachers i put evidence into these teachers already— put evidence into these teachers already saying... that will be a 5% real cut _ already saying... that will be a 5% real cut so — already saying... that will be a 5% real cut so again the obr points this out — real cut so again the obr points this out. there's a lot more pressure _ this out. there's a lot more pressure now on these public spending totals. set in cash terms back in— spending totals. set in cash terms back in october when inflation was around _ back in october when inflation was around 4%. — back in october when inflation was around 4%, now looking like 8%, so these _ around 4%, now looking like 8%, so these are _ around 4%, now looking like 8%, so these are much smaller real increases _ these are much smaller real increases for departments. in a sense _ increases for departments. in a sense they— increases for departments. in a sense they have a choice, they can

-ive sense they have a choice, they can give the _ sense they have a choice, they can give the workers there, and it's a quarter— give the workers there, and it's a quarter of— give the workers there, and it's a quarter of £1 trillion we spend on public— quarter of £1 trillion we spend on public sector pay, if we increase pay for — public sector pay, if we increase pay for the _ public sector pay, if we increase pay for the workers there in line with inflation, it's a lot less for more _ with inflation, it's a lot less for more teachers or nurses or what have you, more teachers or nurses or what have you. so _ more teachers or nurses or what have you. so they — more teachers or nurses or what have you, so they could increase pay in line with — you, so they could increase pay in line with inflation or they could leave _ line with inflation or they could leave them getting a great deal worse _ leave them getting a great deal worse off in real terms relative to the private — worse off in real terms relative to the private sector as well. i worse off in real terms relative to the private sector as well.- the private sector as well. i think ou have the private sector as well. i think you have to _ the private sector as well. i think you have to go. _ the private sector as well. i think you have to go, but _ the private sector as well. i think you have to go, but we _ the private sector as well. i think you have to go, but we showed i the private sector as well. i think i you have to go, but we showed this graph earlier and didn't spend that much time on it. i don't know if you can see the tax changes by the left temporary ministers. how does that change from the announcements today? __ by change from the announcements today? —— by the last ten prime ministers. rishi sunak has announced some tax cuts on _ rishi sunak has announced some tax cuts on top _ rishi sunak has announced some tax cuts on top of the increase as he announced — cuts on top of the increase as he announced before but as we said earlier. — announced before but as we said earlier, the out term of the tax increased — earlier, the out term of the tax increased the an ounce before will be bigger— increased the an ounce before will be bigger than he intended so if you look at _ be bigger than he intended so if you look at the — be bigger than he intended so if you look at the change in the tax burden

over this _ look at the change in the tax burden over this parliament, look at the change in the tax burden overthis parliament, it look at the change in the tax burden over this parliament, it will not change — over this parliament, it will not change that much.— over this parliament, it will not change that much. pauljohnson, thank ou change that much. pauljohnson, thank you for— change that much. pauljohnson, thank you forjoining _ change that much. pauljohnson, thank you forjoining us. - change that much. pauljohnson, thank you forjoining us. i - change that much. pauljohnson, thank you forjoining us. i think i change that much. pauljohnson, | thank you forjoining us. i think in a few minutes we will be joined by treasury minister helen whately, and we will be putting a lot of these points to her and also by labour and representatives from the other parties. bill representatives from the other arties. �* ., ,, . ., parties. all of the specifics we have talked _ parties. all of the specifics we have talked about, _ parties. all of the specifics we have talked about, and - parties. all of the specifics we | have talked about, and there's parties. all of the specifics we i have talked about, and there's a parties. all of the specifics we - have talked about, and there's a lot in this even though it was a short statement, one chart the obr has published its book which comes with a very stark conclusion, to say they expect real household disposable income, which is basically best way of how we measure how people feel about whether or not they can afford their lifestyle, if they have any money left at the end of the month, they expect it to fall this year at they expect it to fall this year at the fastest rate since comparable records began in the 1950s. just think about that for a moment, whatever the specifics, fine details of all oblique proposals, and it's

really important to look at the nuance and the different details in black and white, the overall picture for the public, for the politicians, is going to be one that is very testing in a couple of years into the running in the next general election. �* , ., , the running in the next general election. �* , ., �* election. and if people don't feel better by the _ election. and if people don't feel better by the time _ election. and if people don't feel better by the time of— election. and if people don't feel better by the time of the - election. and if people don't feel better by the time of the next. better by the time of the next general election, this could still cost the conservatives dearly. they can point to all sorts of emotions that have been taken, that you outlined, faisal, and simon, less so for businesses certainly, but if people feel worse off, and if you feel better or worse off by the next election, it'll cost them at the ballot box. election, it'll cost them at the ballot boot-— election, it'll cost them at the ballot box. absolutely and the government — ballot box. absolutely and the government is _ ballot box. absolutely and the government is aware - ballot box. absolutely and the government is aware of- ballot box. absolutely and the government is aware of that, l ballot box. absolutely and the i government is aware of that, the backdrop, if people feel skint and hard up, they are more likely to be angry with people who have been in charge. some of it, as rishi sunak was careful to point out at the beginning of the statement, is

beyond the government's control, but they are responsible for making the decisions about how much tax we pay, what they spend our money on, how much we are all left with at the end of the month. and the picture is very challenging, notwithstanding what you talked about, employment, if we sat there this time last year, the government would have bitten your hand off for that to be the case. �* . ., y your hand off for that to be the case. �* , ., , ., , your hand off for that to be the case. �*. ., , ., , case. it's worth trying to flesh off the oint case. it's worth trying to flesh off the point about _ case. it's worth trying to flesh off the point about the _ case. it's worth trying to flesh off the point about the squeeze - case. it's worth trying to flesh off the point about the squeeze on i the point about the squeeze on standards, in terms of the tax rise that came — standards, in terms of the tax rise that came in, it is a few hundred pounds — that came in, it is a few hundred pounds for— that came in, it is a few hundred pounds for a typical household and this was— pounds for a typical household and this was rolled back about half of that _ this was rolled back about half of that we — this was rolled back about half of that. we know that for a typical home. — that. we know that for a typical home. the _ that. we know that for a typical home, the energy bills have gone up about— home, the energy bills have gone up about £700 — home, the energy bills have gone up about £700 and stand to go up a few hundred _ about £700 and stand to go up a few hundred pounds more in the autumn. petrol— hundred pounds more in the autumn. petrol bills. _ hundred pounds more in the autumn. petrol bills, typical car owner, and not necessarily the same people, but it gives _ not necessarily the same people, but it gives you _ not necessarily the same people, but it gives you an idea, about £500 if prices _ it gives you an idea, about £500 if prices stay— it gives you an idea, about £500 if prices stay where they are although the 5p _ prices stay where they are although the 5p cut— prices stay where they are although the 5p cut will help with a small amount— the 5p cut will help with a small amount of— the 5p cut will help with a small amount of that. you can see that is

why. _ amount of that. you can see that is why. even— amount of that. you can see that is why, even though you have had some cuts in _ why, even though you have had some cuts in taxes. — why, even though you have had some cuts in taxes, the real disposable income _ cuts in taxes, the real disposable income is — cuts in taxes, the real disposable income is still being squeezed as a law it _ income is still being squeezed as a law it describes by the fastest amount— law it describes by the fastest amount we have on record. that seems amount we have on record. that seems a aood amount we have on record. that seems a good point — amount we have on record. that seems a good point to — amount we have on record. that seems a good point to welcome _ amount we have on record. that seems a good point to welcome helen - a good point to welcome helen whately, treasury minister. welcome to this special and he was on the news channel, the biggest fall in living standards in any financial year since records began in 1956, so says the obr with the office for budget responsibility. how can you justify that? budget responsibility. how can you 'usti that? . budget responsibility. how can you 'usti that? , ., ., , justify that? these are tough times we are living _ justify that? these are tough times we are living in _ justify that? these are tough times we are living in but _ justify that? these are tough times we are living in but we _ justify that? these are tough times we are living in but we have - justify that? these are tough times we are living in but we have just i we are living in but we have just come through the pandemic which clearly was a huge hit to the economy in the uk and around the world. at the fact we are recovering really strongly from that with the g7 last year... really strongly from that with the g7 last year- - -— g7 last year... because of the sharpest _ g7 last year... because of the sharpest contraction - g7 last year... because of the sharpest contraction in - g7 last year... because of the sharpest contraction in before g7 last year... because of the - sharpest contraction in before that point we are seeing really strong growth and an important part is the support we gave, the government gave to people and businesses through the pandemic which has helped us come out very strongly. brute pandemic which has helped us come out very strongly-—

out very strongly. we know on the back of that _ out very strongly. we know on the back of that we _ out very strongly. we know on the back of that we now _ out very strongly. we know on the back of that we now have - out very strongly. we know on the back of that we now have the - out very strongly. we know on the back of that we now have the warl out very strongly. we know on the . back of that we now have the war in ukraine which is making things even harder globally so, if i can set it out, we already saw high rates of inflation globally coming out of the pandemic, with the recovery and extra demand, and high energy prices, with that walk making things harder. what the chancellor set out in his spring statement is the steps we are taking to support people here and now, and tax cuts to support people with the extra cost of living, and an overall tax plan to bring down the tax burden for people. but two other things which are really important to mention, which is how we are committed to driving growth and supporting businesses, which are the engine of growth, that is how we improve living standards in years to come, and looking ahead, being able to share those proceeds equally to a future income tax cut, really important those three strands. bind important those three strands. and that it does — important those three strands. and that it does set out to some extent a long—term plan but it is right

now, we're talking about how people feel right energy costs £700 in people's bills, there's been some sort of rebate plan we had to cover half of that. the growth you talk about, it has been downgraded quite significantly to 3.8%. do you accept the sort of cost of living challenges being faced by the uk now preceded the war in ukraine? it cannot all be laid at the door of the invasion of ukraine. i cannot all be laid at the door of the invasion of ukraine.- the invasion of ukraine. i don't think anyone — the invasion of ukraine. i don't think anyone is _ the invasion of ukraine. i don't think anyone is suggesting, . the invasion of ukraine. i don't think anyone is suggesting, i i think anyone is suggesting, i certainly haven't and the chancellor has not, that is all to do with ukraine and in fact two minutes ago, i set out how we know the recovery from the pandemic is one of the reasons of driving inflation globally and energy costs as part of that. we have got notjust ukraine and also the pandemic but i will say it's important we take a long—term approach. you're completely right on the cost of living alone. that is

why white rid of the national insurance contributions, think of a haptic oaky but why notjust get rid of them and it was the wrong thing to do? in of them and it was the wrong thing to do? . . , of them and it was the wrong thing to do? . ._ ., ., of them and it was the wrong thing todo? . .,. , ., to do? in a way to an end stick date and the measures _ to do? in a way to an end stick date and the measures he _ to do? in a way to an end stick date and the measures he announced, i to do? in a way to an end stick date| and the measures he announced, by increasing the threshold that mega rishi sunak admitted that. just get rid of the tax hike altogether. i disagree with your interpretation of what we have set out. i did just want to say, tax cuts today, specifically fuel duty, helping people here and now, that reduction in fuel duty will come in this evening to help people with the real cost they are facing filling up their cars, whether to go to work, dropping the kids off at school, the day—to—day things of life. is the national insurance cut you mentioned, which will save the average employer £330 a year, that will mean that for the majority of

people, around 70%, even including the health and social levy, they will see a fall in their national insurance contributions. but still, that health and social levy is important because we know the nhs and social care are people's number one priority and we committed as a governor to reform and social care, we have an nhs backlog in this setting up a long—term revenue stream to fund those things. and also it will mean that those with the broadest shoulders will be contributing more to the. but you are essentially going _ contributing more to the. but you are essentially going to _ contributing more to the. but you are essentially going to cut - contributing more to the. but you are essentially going to cut the i are essentially going to cut the basic rate of income tax, but fund it from _ basic rate of income tax, but fund it from having raised national insurance, you are shifting the tax system _ insurance, you are shifting the tax system from normal income tax that affects _ system from normal income tax that affects everybody, savers, buy to let landlords, you're focusing it on workers _ let landlords, you're focusing it on workers and increasing tax on jobs. iwill— workers and increasing tax on jobs. i will not _ workers and increasing tax on jobs. i will not see — workers and increasing tax on jobs. i will not see it that way. what we are doing here and now that is to help people with the cost of living, and also making sure that work pays,

which is a really important priority for us, as you saw in the budget when we announced and have implement the cut to universal credit, the taper rate, which is essentially a tax cut for those on the lowest incomes and national living wage going up imminently to increase the incomes of those on the lowest pay, but looking ahead, yes, we do want to be able to bring down income tax, thatis to be able to bring down income tax, that is really important, something conservative chancellors often want to do and only sometimes managed to. but the public is not going to be kidded _ but the public is not going to be kidded that you are a tax cut in government when you have just raised the taxes _ government when you have just raised the taxes and given it back to them over a _ the taxes and given it back to them over a period of years. what the taxes and given it back to them over a period of years.— the taxes and given it back to them over a period of years. what we have done with the — over a period of years. what we have done with the health _ over a period of years. what we have done with the health and _ over a period of years. what we have done with the health and social- over a period of years. what we have done with the health and social levyl done with the health and social levy is a very specific revenue... it’s is a very specific revenue... it's not because — is a very specific revenue... it's not because you _ is a very specific revenue... it's not because you are not going to cut that now _ not because you are not going to cut that now by — not because you are not going to cut that now by 6 billion, that was a myth _ that now by 6 billion, that was a m h. ~ . . that now by 6 billion, that was a m h. . . , . , , that now by 6 billion, that was a m h. ~ . , ., , , , myth. what is happening is the revenue that _ myth. what is happening is the revenue that will _ myth. what is happening is the revenue that will go _ myth. what is happening is the

revenue that will go to - myth. what is happening is the revenue that will go to the - myth. what is happening is the| revenue that will go to the nhs myth. what is happening is the i revenue that will go to the nhs to forget reforms that were put into place, we have made commitments through the spending review before the phonic to health and social. it does mean that those with a broad shoulders will be contributing to the nhs. at the number one priority for the best public. and although we do face cost of living challenges, we will get through this and have stronger growth and then we will be in a position where we have the long—term revenue stream and to cut income tax. long-term revenue stream and to cut income tax— income tax. you're talking about a tax-cutting _ income tax. you're talking about a tax-cutting but — income tax. you're talking about a tax-cutting but the _ income tax. you're talking about a tax-cutting but the public- income tax. you're talking about a tax-cutting but the public is - tax—cutting but the public is literally— tax—cutting but the public is literally going to see the fullback of a national insurance rise in their— of a national insurance rise in their pay— of a national insurance rise in their pay packets next month so it looks _ their pay packets next month so it looks like — their pay packets next month so it looks like you didn't really want to id looks like you didn't really want to go ahead — looks like you didn't really want to go ahead with it because you're going _ go ahead with it because you're going to — go ahead with it because you're going to give it back injuly. it's a bit _ going to give it back injuly. it's a bit odd. — going to give it back injuly. it's a bit odd, not ideal tax planning from _ a bit odd, not ideal tax planning from a _ a bit odd, not ideal tax planning from a governmental perspective? the tax ian from a governmental perspective? tax plan the from a governmental perspective? iie: tax plan the chancellor from a governmental perspective? tie: tax plan the chancellor set from a governmental perspective? iie: tax plan the chancellor set out... it doesn't mention the tax rises! i5 it doesn't mention the tax rises! [55 to cut it doesn't mention the tax rises! to cut taxes

it doesn't mention the tax rises! is to cut taxes and simplify them and that's part of what were doing and we can get into the threshold and how it works but let's also keep it simple, overall this will work out as a national insurance cut for the majority... as a national insurance cut for the majority- - -— majority... rishi sunak said the income tax _ majority... rishi sunak said the income tax cut _ majority... rishi sunak said the income tax cut is _ majority... rishi sunak said the income tax cut is worth - majority... rishi sunak said the income tax cut is worth £5 - majority... rishi sunak said the i income tax cut is worth £5 billion, the ifs said last week that the previously announced tax rises were worth £46 billion so how does that work out in any way as being tax—cutting or better for households and taxpayers? this i tax-cutting or better for households and taxpayers?_ and taxpayers? as i set out within a context which _ and taxpayers? as i set out within a context which is _ and taxpayers? as i set out within a context which is a _ and taxpayers? as i set out within a context which is a challenging - and taxpayers? as i set out within a context which is a challenging one i context which is a challenging one for any government to be in, global pandemic, the war in ukraine, global inflation, energy costs, we have taken steps inflation, energy costs, we have ta ken steps to inflation, energy costs, we have taken steps to support people, we took steps through the pandemic, through those hard times, supporting people with the cost of living, and committed to growth in the long term, bringing taxes down. but we know we need to be fiscally responsible and this is really important, it could be tempting to

borrow more but that is not responsible because then you are passing debt onto future generations which we are committed not to do. it was a political choice to increase taxes. in terms of announcements made are a longer term, businesses now, some are facing going to the wall. . . . now, some are facing going to the wall. , . ., . , ., wall. these are the tax cuts down here, presumably _ wall. these are the tax cuts down here, presumably this _ wall. these are the tax cuts down here, presumably this page - wall. these are the tax cuts down | here, presumably this page didn't make _ here, presumably this page didn't make it _ here, presumably this page didn't make it to— here, presumably this page didn't make it to the _ here, presumably this page didn't make it to the printers _ here, presumably this page didn't make it to the printers because i make it to the printers because right— make it to the printers because right here — make it to the printers because right here we _ make it to the printers because right here we have _ make it to the printers because right here we have the - make it to the printers because right here we have the tax - make it to the printers because right here we have the tax rise | make it to the printers because i right here we have the tax rise for employers — right here we have the tax rise for employers not _ right here we have the tax rise for employers not employees, - right here we have the tax rise for employers not employees, whichl right here we have the tax rise for. employers not employees, which is unchanged — employers not employees, which is unchanged to — employers not employees, which is unchanged to ahead, _ employers not employees, which is unchanged to ahead, and _ employers not employees, which is unchanged to ahead, and also i employers not employees, which is unchanged to ahead, and also in. unchanged to ahead, and also in april— unchanged to ahead, and also in april 2023— unchanged to ahead, and also in april 2023 there _ unchanged to ahead, and also in april 2023 there was _ unchanged to ahead, and also in april 2023 there was a _ unchanged to ahead, and also in. april 2023 there was a corporation tax rise _ april 2023 there was a corporation tax rise which _ april 2023 there was a corporation tax rise which in— april 2023 there was a corporation tax rise which in a _ april 2023 there was a corporation tax rise which in a strike _ april 2023 there was a corporation tax rise which in a strike wipes- april 2023 there was a corporation tax rise which in a strike wipes out ten years— tax rise which in a strike wipes out ten years of— tax rise which in a strike wipes out ten years of the _ tax rise which in a strike wipes out ten years of the tory— tax rise which in a strike wipes out ten years of the tory tax—cutting i tax rise which in a strike wipes out. ten years of the tory tax—cutting so you can _ ten years of the tory tax—cutting so you can see — ten years of the tory tax—cutting so you can see a — ten years of the tory tax—cutting so you can see a whopping _ ten years of the tory tax—cutting so you can see a whopping rise - ten years of the tory tax—cutting so you can see a whopping rise from i ten years of the tory tax—cutting so| you can see a whopping rise from 19 to 25%_ you can see a whopping rise from 19 to 25% and — you can see a whopping rise from 19 to 25% and i— you can see a whopping rise from 19 to 25% and i think _ you can see a whopping rise from 19 to 25% and i think the _ you can see a whopping rise from 19 to 25% and i think the fear - you can see a whopping rise from 19 to 25% and i think the fear we i to 25% and i think the fear we talked — to 25% and i think the fear we talked about— to 25% and i think the fear we talked about was _ to 25% and i think the fear we talked about was that - to 25% and i think the fear we talked about was that the i to 25% and i think the fear we i talked about was that the chancellor has taken _ talked about was that the chancellor has taken a — talked about was that the chancellor has taken a gamble _ talked about was that the chancellor has taken a gamble that _ talked about was that the chancellor has taken a gamble that if _ talked about was that the chancellor has taken a gamble that if you i talked about was that the chancellor has taken a gamble that if you look. has taken a gamble that if you look at gdp _ has taken a gamble that if you look at gdp in _ has taken a gamble that if you look at gdp in february, _ has taken a gamble that if you look at gdp in february, at _ has taken a gamble that if you look at gdp in february, at corporate i has taken a gamble that if you looki at gdp in february, at corporate tax receipts. _ at gdp in february, at corporate tax receipts. gdp. — at gdp in february, at corporate tax receipts, gdp, the— at gdp in february, at corporate tax receipts, gdp, the unemployment. receipts, gdp, the unemployment rate, _ receipts, gdp, the unemployment rate. you — receipts, gdp, the unemployment rate. you think— receipts, gdp, the unemployment rate, you think from _ receipts, gdp, the unemployment rate, you think from the _ receipts, gdp, the unemployment rate, you think from the economy| rate, you think from the economy looks— rate, you think from the economy looks robust — rate, you think from the economy looks robust enough _ rate, you think from the economy looks robust enough for— rate, you think from the economy looks robust enough for now, i i rate, you think from the economy| looks robust enough for now, i can keep— looks robust enough for now, i can keep my— looks robust enough for now, i can keep my powder— looks robust enough for now, i can keep my powder dry— looks robust enough for now, i can keep my powder dry for— looks robust enough for now, i can keep my powder dry for october. i looks robust enough for now, i can- keep my powder dry for october. most of the _ keep my powder dry for october. most of the business — keep my powder dry for october. most of the business groups _ keep my powder dry for october. most of the business groups i— keep my powder dry for october. most of the business groups i bosses- keep my powder dry for october. most of the business groups i bosses talk. of the business groups i bosses talk to say—

of the business groups i bosses talk to say that — of the business groups i bosses talk to say that is — of the business groups i bosses talk to say that is a _ of the business groups i bosses talk to say that is a massive _ of the business groups i bosses talk to say that is a massive gamble. i of the business groups i bosses talk| to say that is a massive gamble. we are unprotected _ to say that is a massive gamble. we are unprotected from _ to say that is a massive gamble. we are unprotected from the _ to say that is a massive gamble. we are unprotected from the crippling i are unprotected from the crippling end or— are unprotected from the crippling end or pervasive _ are unprotected from the crippling end or pervasive energy— are unprotected from the crippling end or pervasive energy cost i are unprotected from the cripplingl end or pervasive energy cost rises, we will_ end or pervasive energy cost rises, we will not — end or pervasive energy cost rises, we will not see _ end or pervasive energy cost rises, we will not see any— end or pervasive energy cost rises, we will not see any relief— end or pervasive energy cost rises, we will not see any relief from i we will not see any relief from national— we will not see any relief from national insurance _ we will not see any relief from national insurance rise - we will not see any relief from national insurance rise that i we will not see any relief from. national insurance rise that you have _ national insurance rise that you have announced _ national insurance rise that you have announced today. - national insurance rise that you i have announced today. business confidence — have announced today. business confidence is _ have announced today. business confidence is already— have announced today. business confidence is already flagging i have announced today. business. confidence is already flagging and once it _ confidence is already flagging and once it is — confidence is already flagging and once it is lost _ confidence is already flagging and once it is lost it— confidence is already flagging and once it is lost it is— confidence is already flagging and once it is lost it is harder- confidence is already flagging and once it is lost it is harder to- confidence is already flagging and once it is lost it is harder to get. once it is lost it is harder to get back _ once it is lost it is harder to get back and — once it is lost it is harder to get back and for— once it is lost it is harder to get back. and for many— once it is lost it is harder to get| back. and for many businesses, once it is lost it is harder to get. back. and for many businesses, it will be _ back. and for many businesses, it will be too — back. and for many businesses, it will be too late _ back. and for many businesses, it will be too late by— back. and for many businesses, it will be too late by october. i back. and for many businesses, it will be too late by october. one i back. and for many businesses, it| will be too late by october. one at that statistic— will be too late by october. one at that statistic in _ will be too late by october. one at that statistic in february— will be too late by october. one at that statistic in february there i will be too late by october. one atj that statistic in february there was a 23%_ that statistic in february there was a 23% rise — that statistic in february there was a 23% rise in — that statistic in february there was a 23% rise in corporate _ that statistic in february there wasi a 23% rise in corporate insolvencies and we _ a 23% rise in corporate insolvencies and we could — a 23% rise in corporate insolvencies and we could see _ a 23% rise in corporate insolvencies and we could see eight _ a 23% rise in corporate insolvencies and we could see eight massacre i a 23% rise in corporate insolvencies and we could see eight massacre of a 23% rise in corporate insolvencies i and we could see eight massacre of a lot of— and we could see eight massacre of a lot of companies _ and we could see eight massacre of a lot of companies which _ and we could see eight massacre of a lot of companies which were - lot of companies which were supported _ lot of companies which were supported through - lot of companies which were supported through covid i lot of companies which were | supported through covid and lot of companies which were i supported through covid and are lot of companies which were - supported through covid and are now fully exposed — supported through covid and are now fully exposed to _ supported through covid and are now fully exposed to the _ supported through covid and are now fully exposed to the ravages - supported through covid and are now fully exposed to the ravages of i supported through covid and are now fully exposed to the ravages of whatl fully exposed to the ravages of what we are _ fully exposed to the ravages of what we are seeing— fully exposed to the ravages of what we are seeing the _ fully exposed to the ravages of what we are seeing the inflation- we are seeing the inflation inflation _ we are seeing the inflation inflation pressures. - we are seeing the inflation inflation pressures. [- we are seeing the inflation inflation pressures.- we are seeing the inflation inflation pressures. i took to the federation _ inflation pressures. i took to the federation of _ inflation pressures. i took to the federation of small _ inflation pressures. i took to the federation of small businessesl inflation pressures. i took to the i federation of small businesses this week and one of the things they asked for was what the chancellor has announced, which is the increase in the employment allowance which is essentially one a £1000 tax cut to many thousands of small businesses. it enables them to employ people without that national insurance cost so we are supporting businesses in the here and now. we are committed to growth, the chancellor mentioned

some of the help to grow schemes we have to help businesses become more productive. they are the lifeblood of our economy, we absolutely support business, and also he signalled, the conversation he wants to have with businesses between now and the budget, increasing and supporting business investment, we want to support business investment because we know that will. .. want to support business investment because we know that will. . .- because we know that will. .. exactly and can you — because we know that will. .. exactly and can you imagine _ because we know that will. .. exactly and can you imagine a _ because we know that will. .. exactly and can you imagine a scenario i because we know that will. .. exactly and can you imagine a scenario in i and can you imagine a scenario in which _ and can you imagine a scenario in whicha_ and can you imagine a scenario in which a business _ and can you imagine a scenario in which a business looking - and can you imagine a scenario in which a business looking at - and can you imagine a scenario in which a business looking at theirl which a business looking at their energy— which a business looking at their energy bills, _ which a business looking at their energy bills, their— which a business looking at their energy bills, their tax— which a business looking at their energy bills, their tax bills, - which a business looking at their energy bills, their tax bills, saysi energy bills, their tax bills, says there _ energy bills, their tax bills, says there is— energy bills, their tax bills, says there is nothing _ energy bills, their tax bills, says there is nothing left— energy bills, their tax bills, says there is nothing left for- energy bills, their tax bills, says there is nothing left for me - energy bills, their tax bills, says there is nothing left for me to. there is nothing left for me to invest— there is nothing left for me to invest and _ there is nothing left for me to invest and that _ there is nothing left for me to invest and that is _ there is nothing left for me to invest and that is one - there is nothing left for me to invest and that is one of- there is nothing left for me to invest and that is one of the l invest and that is one of the reasons_ invest and that is one of the reasons why— invest and that is one of the reasons why we _ invest and that is one of the reasons why we are - invest and that is one of the reasons why we are seeing i invest and that is one of the - reasons why we are seeing such poor growth _ reasons why we are seeing such poor growth numbers— reasons why we are seeing such poor growth numbers two _ reasons why we are seeing such poor growth numbers two and _ reasons why we are seeing such poor growth numbers two and three - reasons why we are seeing such poor growth numbers two and three years| growth numbers two and three years out. irre— growth numbers two and three years out. ~ t, t, ~ growth numbers two and three years out. t c, c, ~' , ,, growth numbers two and three years out. i, , , , out. we have taken steps completely what i mention. _ out. we have taken steps completely what i mention, to _ out. we have taken steps completely what i mention, to support _ out. we have taken steps completely what i mention, to support smaller. what i mention, to support smaller businesses with some of the costs they face. we can solve all of the problems but the chancellor really does this, and there was a conversation as to how we can help businesses invest more, particularly in supporting innovation and driving up in supporting innovation and driving up productivity and our commitment to skills which is crucial.— to skills which is crucial. helen whatel , to skills which is crucial. helen whately, treasury _ to skills which is crucial. helen whately, treasury minister, i to skills which is crucial. helen . whately, treasury minister, thank you forjoining us so quickly after

that spring statement from the chancellor and response from rachel reeves, the shadow chancellor. we can join reeves, the shadow chancellor. we canjoin fiona reeves, the shadow chancellor. we can join fiona trott who reeves, the shadow chancellor. we canjoin fiona trott who is reeves, the shadow chancellor. we can join fiona trott who is still in darlington at the market and hopefully can get some reaction from people who have listened to the statement. we were speaking to one market trader here earlier who's been here for over 70 years and he was saying the cost of living has never felt so severe for him. how do people feel now? let's speak to kirsty, you run a ladies clothing store here, and diane, you arejoining us again. you own a local haulage business. kirsty, what do you think? 50 own a local haulage business. kirsty, what do you think? so the national insurance _ kirsty, what do you think? so the national insurance is _ kirsty, what do you think? so the national insurance is a _ kirsty, what do you think? so the national insurance is a little - kirsty, what do you think? so the national insurance is a little bit i national insurance is a little bit of help— national insurance is a little bit of help to _ national insurance is a little bit of help to me, it means i don't have to worry— of help to me, it means i don't have to worry about earning so much so fast so _ to worry about earning so much so fast so that— to worry about earning so much so fast so that gives me a bit more teewav — fast so that gives me a bit more leewa . ~ , , ., ,, ., i” leeway. when we were speaking to you earlier, leeway. when we were speaking to you earlier. diane. — leeway. when we were speaking to you earlier, diane, the _ leeway. when we were speaking to you earlier, diane, the cost _ leeway. when we were speaking to you earlier, diane, the cost of— leeway. when we were speaking to you earlier, diane, the cost of diesel -

earlier, diane, the cost of diesel is a big