this is bbc news i'm rebecca jones. the headlines: ukraine's president volodymr zelensky says his country could become neutral — in a bid to end russia's invasion. translation: i understand it's impossible to force russia - completely from ukrainian territory. it would lead to a third world war. i understand it, and that's why i'm talking about a compromise. the mayor of mariupol warns the besieged port city faces �*humanitarian catastrophe�* and says it must be completely evacuated. drama at the oscars as the hollywood actor will smith hits one of the presenters at the ceremony chris rock in the face. the incident overshadowed the main event — a historic win for coda, which became the first film

from a streaming service to win best picture. pupils in england may face tougher targets in english and maths for primary and secondary schools. hello and welcome to bbc news. ukraine's president, volodymyr zelensky, says he's prepared to discuss a formal neutral status for his country — as part of talks to end the war with russia. but he insisted any proposal would need to be put to the ukrainian people in a referendum, and the outcome guaranteed by third parties. let's get the latest from ukraine and cross live to my colleague ben brown who is in lviv.—

and cross live to my colleague ben brown who is in lviv. thank you very much indeed- _ brown who is in lviv. thank you very much indeed. the _ brown who is in lviv. thank you very much indeed. the war _ brown who is in lviv. thank you very much indeed. the war rages - brown who is in lviv. thank you very much indeed. the war rages on, - brown who is in lviv. thank you very much indeed. the war rages on, 33. much indeed. the war rages on, 33 days after the russian invasion, but there are more at peace talks scheduled to take place in istanbul this week. we think they will start tomorrow and ukraine's president volodymyr zelensky says he's prepared to discuss formal neutrality this country as part of efforts to end the war here. but he says that would have to go to a referendum and be guaranteed by third parties. meanwhile the mayor of the besieged port city of mariupol says around 160,000 people are still trapped there without heat or power, and he is calling for the city to be completely evacuated. he's described it as a humanitarian catastrophe. 26 buses have been laid on to get people out of the city, but ukraine's government are saying humanitarian corridors for civilians trying to escape being closed today because of fears they could be attacked by russian troops. in the word of the mayor of mariupol,

russia is "playing with us." let's get the latest from our correspondence and foster. get the latest from our corresondence and foster. ., , . correspondence and foster. homes and lives reduced — correspondence and foster. homes and lives reduced to _ correspondence and foster. homes and lives reduced to rubble. _ correspondence and foster. homes and lives reduced to rubble. for _ correspondence and foster. homes and lives reduced to rubble. for many - correspondence and foster. homes and lives reduced to rubble. for many in i lives reduced to rubble. for many in ukraine leaving is not an option, it's difficult and dangerous. cities like mariupol and kharkiv remain under heavy fire. mariupol�*s mayor has called for the city to be completely evacuated, but today there are no plans to open any humanitarian corridors to help people escape. ukraine's deputy prime minister says intelligence sources fear that russia will attack civilians as they flee. in a new interview with independent russian journalists, president zelensky said he was willing to consider neutral status for ukraine. translation: security guarantees and neutrality, we are ready to go for it, this is the main point, this

is why russia started the war. president zelensky says that a referendum would be a key part of any decision on neutrality, but how do you do that in a country where more than 3 million people have already fled and millions more have been displaced from their homes? logistically, it would be incredibly difficult, and how would it have any lasting future legitimacy? in the capital, kyiv, life has changed immeasurably in a few short weeks. irina travels here every day from her home in irpin, near the front line, to sell meat on a street corner. translation: at night, | i sleep with all my clothes on, except the coat. even the socks are on. at night, i wake and pray, again. new peace talks are due to start tomorrow in turkey. the first round, held in russian—allied belarus, delivered little. for ukraine's civilians, any small step towards peace gives hope, but after weeks

of this conflict, actions feel far more important than words. anna foster, bbc news, lviv. as missiles continue to rain down on ukraine, we had some over the weekend in lviv, their leaders, the military and the people are remaining steadfast in their belief that victory is theirs. against the odds, ukraine is holding off and in some cases gaining ground on what was thought to be a superior power. here with her analysis of the war in ukraine a and what s next is inna sovsun, a member of the ukraine parliament. she joins us from kyiv. thank you forjoining us. first of all, what do you think is going on in terms of kyiv and how ukrainian troops are defending the capital and

the wider battlefield? in troops are defending the capital and the wider battlefield?— the wider battlefield? in terms of k iv, 'ust the wider battlefield? in terms of kyiv, just literally _ the wider battlefield? in terms of kyiv, just literally one _ the wider battlefield? in terms of kyiv, just literally one minute - the wider battlefield? in terms of| kyiv, just literally one minute ago i heard a huge explosion close to the city. i don't know which direction it was from but something big is happening here. apparently the major battles are taking place north—west of the city, but of course the russians keep sending missiles onto the city itself. basically the whole night and today we were spending under air raid alert, so people have to spend their nights in some sort of shelter from potential bombs falling on to their heads. that is the reality in kyiv, and despite the ukrainian army fighting very bravely to push the russian army from the city there are simply too many of them and there are many russians still around kyiv, and we do hope the ukrainian army will push them further, but there are limited numbers of troops here that ukraine can position as well, and they also need resupply of

weapons as well. 0verall and they also need resupply of weapons as well. overall the situation in kyiv is so much better compared to cities like mariupol because over there that is just a disaster. as you have reported, over 160,000 people are still in the city and you have to realise many people have left but many have been abducted and taken to russia. 0ver abducted and taken to russia. over 20,000 people it was reported were taken to russia without their will, they were basically abducted by the russian state and taken in another direction. so the situation there is very tense and we understand the major progress the russians are making right now are in the donbas region, being unable to capture other major cities they have concentrated lots of their forces in the donbas region, as of right now on this day. we have been hearing from president zelensky, he talked about an offer of a neutral status for ukraine, is part of a possible compromise. b, for ukraine, is part of a possible compromise-— for ukraine, is part of a possible compromise. a kind of package of measures to _

compromise. a kind of package of measures to try _ compromise. a kind of package of measures to try and _ compromise. a kind of package of measures to try and end - compromise. a kind of package of measures to try and end this - compromise. a kind of package of measures to try and end this war. | compromise. a kind of package of. measures to try and end this war. we know there are talks this week in turkey. are you optimistic at all there can be any kind of agreement at those talks or any subsequent talks, and what does a peace deal look like, do you think? i will talks, and what does a peace deal look like, do you think?— look like, do you think? i will tell ou this, look like, do you think? i will tell you this. in _ look like, do you think? i will tell you this, in 2014 _ look like, do you think? i will tell you this, in 2014 ukraine - look like, do you think? i will tell you this, in 2014 ukraine was - you this, in 2014 ukraine was officially a neutral state, it was stated in our constitution. in 2014 putin annexed crimea and started the war in donbas which has taken eight years 14,000 ukrainian lives. so ukrainians in general are extremely pessimistic about the idea of neutrality given the very recent history of putin not respecting the idea of neutrality at all, as we have seen eight years ago. so overall we are rather pessimistic about the potential talks. i'm not saying that with a light heart, but i'm very much afraid we will have to deal with this militarily. making any deals with russia right now would compromise ukraine's territorial integrity, which no one would allow to happen, and also

making a deal that requires you trust the person you are making the deal with. trust the person you are making the dealwith. can trust the person you are making the deal with. can we trust putin right now? can we trust even in the scenario we tell him he could have crimea, what other guarantees that months from that deal he will not attack us again? i don't think a single person can promise that and we need guarantees of our security. so for now it seems the only guarantees are being provided by the ukrainian army as we speak right now. 50 ukrainian army as we speak right now. ., ., , ., ., , now. so in other words, the war goes on. what now. so in other words, the war goes on- what are — now. so in other words, the war goes on. what are the _ now. so in other words, the war goes on. what are the help _ now. so in other words, the war goes on. what are the help do _ now. so in other words, the war goes on. what are the help do you - now. so in other words, the war goes on. what are the help do you want i on. what are the help do you want militarily from the west, from nato? we saw president biden in poland over the weekend. but do you still want much more help in terms of military hardware and weaponry? {lit military hardware and weaponry? of course we did receive a lot of military aid and we are grateful for that, i don't mean to sound ungrateful, but what we mostly received were anti—tank weapons, and we are using them pretty well. as of now we hear reports from the ministry of defence saying we have

destroyed up to 40—50% of the russian tanks that have come to ukraine, and that's thanks to the anti—tank weapons we have received. however, we haven't received as much supply of weapons that can be used to destroy russian artillery, the longer range weapon that can be used to destroy artillery that is now killing people in mariupol. so we are very much asking for that. and of course, any equipment, any weapon necessary to help us cover the sky. that's still the biggest threat here in ukraine, the russians continue to throw bombs on our cities and we need to have some weapon that will help us cover our sky. so we keep on asking for that. we are not asking for nato troops to establish a no—fly zone here but we keep on asking about the jets, about the air defence system that can help us cover the sky so that we can continue fighting on the ground. inna sovsun, member of parliament in the ukrainian capital kyiv, thank you for your time. i know you are

extremely busy, thank you for being with us on bbc news. here in lviv i'm able to speak to solomiia boikovych from the ukrainian reforms architecture project. your centres have been closed so far during the war but they have reopened today. yes, they have opened today. we asked our clients whether they are ready to return to their kindergartens and 25% of them said they are ready, so we have opened two of our kindergartens, despite the rules to be followed. we have basements which are really good shelters because they have two exits, they have kitchen, heating, all the facilities kids will need, and we opened one more kindergarten in the shelter because there we have the play area, the book corner, the

arts centre, and before the war started we had already prepared lots of water, some food, sleeping bags, and we had a few trainings with the kids and with the teachers in case the air raid alarm starts before the war. so our kids know what to do, they know what rules to follow, and today we had the practice. in real life. ~ ., ., today we had the practice. in real life. ~ . ., , , ., life. when the air raid sirens go off ou life. when the air raid sirens go off you have — life. when the air raid sirens go off you have to _ life. when the air raid sirens go off you have to have _ life. when the air raid sirens go off you have to have drills - life. when the air raid sirens go off you have to have drills so i life. when the air raid sirens go l off you have to have drills so they can take cover in the shelters? yes. can take cover in the shelters? yes, eve hinu can take cover in the shelters? yes, everything was _ can take cover in the shelters? yes, everything was great _ can take cover in the shelters? is: everything was great today, i was there when the kids went down to the shelter and there was no negative emotions, no panic, everything was like a game and the kids started to play down in the shelter the same way they did it on the first and second floor.— way they did it on the first and second floor. ~ . , , ,, ., second floor. across ukraine in the middle of a — second floor. across ukraine in the middle of a war— second floor. across ukraine in the middle of a war there _ second floor. across ukraine in the middle of a war there is _ second floor. across ukraine in the middle of a war there is huge - middle of a war there is huge disruption to education. your

children in your kindergartens are very young, aren't they? but older children, their education is being hugely disrupted.— children, their education is being hugely disrupted. yes, it is and the main task of _ hugely disrupted. yes, it is and the main task of all _ hugely disrupted. yes, it is and the main task of all the _ hugely disrupted. yes, it is and the main task of all the educators - hugely disrupted. yes, it is and the main task of all the educators in i main task of all the educators in ukraine and foreigners abroad have, is to provide some education to the kids. ithink, talking is to provide some education to the kids. i think, talking about kids abroad, this is very necessary to provide them good and quality education, but we have faced some problems there. first one, what to educate, taking into account the ukrainian programmes, how to teach kids, due to the events they are going through and we have the huge amount of kids who are abroad. but i think we need some time to create some system, and i know that ukrainian teachers together with the international community are already working with that. but i think we need some time because, you know, we do not have any books with recommendations about what to do

with education when the war comes to the 21st—century. {iii with education when the war comes to the 21st-century-_ the 21st-century. of course it is unprecedented _ the 21st-century. of course it is unprecedented for _ the 21st-century. of course it is unprecedented for you - the 21st-century. of course it is unprecedented for you here. i the 21st-century. of course it is i unprecedented for you here. when the 21st-century. of course it is - unprecedented for you here. when you look at what's happening to your country and the cities like mariupol being devastated and bombarded by russian shelling, what goes through your mind? i do russian shelling, what goes through our mind? ., , ., your mind? i do believe in our victory because _ your mind? i do believe in our victory because all— your mind? i do believe in our victory because all that i your mind? i do believe in ourj victory because all that anger, your mind? i do believe in our. victory because all that anger, all that fear we had in the first days, it has really transformed into a huge amount of power, into a huge amount of energy and of a desire to fight. we know what we stand for. we have our values to protect and this power is very strong and it is inside the ukrainian hearts, so we are all fighting in each place and we are doing our best. xyour are all fighting in each place and we are doing our best. your troops on the battlefield, _ we are doing our best. your troops on the battlefield, in _ we are doing our best. your troops on the battlefield, in some - we are doing our best. your troops on the battlefield, in some places| on the battlefield, in some places they are counterattacking. are you surprised how well the ukrainian armed forces have done against the

superior numbers and firepower of russia? ihla superior numbers and firepower of russia? ., , , superior numbers and firepower of russia? , ., «a, ., russia? no because of ukrainian histo i russia? no because of ukrainian history i knew — russia? no because of ukrainian history i knew that _ russia? no because of ukrainian history i knew that this - russia? no because of ukrainian history i knew that this would i russia? no because of ukrainian | history i knew that this would be, so that's why i'm not surprised. i'm really happy and grateful, and i'm doing all my best. 0n the west of ukraine it is safer at the moment. do you think ukraine can win this war? {iii do you think ukraine can win this war? . ., , ., do you think ukraine can win this war?_ solomiia i war? of course i do. solomiia boikovych. — war? of course i do. solomiia boikovych, who _ war? of course i do. solomiia boikovych, who runs - war? of course i do. solomiia boikovych, who runs a - war? of course i do. solomiia. boikovych, who runs a network war? of course i do. solomiia i boikovych, who runs a network of schools for young children, kindergartens, nursery schools in lviv, thank you for being with us. that's the latest from me in lviv in western ukraine on the back to the studio in london. many thanks, ben, good to see you. we have some news coming in at the bbc from the scottish government, and the number of coronavirus patients in scotland's hospitals has reached a new record with 2360 people

requiring care. the scottish government has tweeted the very latest coronavirus figures today. 7479 more people have tested positive for coronavirus, but the headline figure there is that 2360 people are now requiring care in scotland's hospitals, and that is a new record. 0n new record. on to other news now. the los angeles police department, says it hasn't yet received a complaint, to investigate an assault by the actor will smith, on the comedian, chris rock, at last night's 0scars ceremony. shortly before collecting the award for best actor, mr smith climbed on stage and slapped mr rock, to the shock of the audience and millions of viewers around the world watching on television. the comic had made a joke about the actor's wife, jada pinkett smith. 0ur north america correspondent, david willis, has more from hollywood. cheering

all smiles as will smith arrived at the oscars. the night was billed as his coronation as one of the greatest actors of his generation. listen, looks like jada approved you so you'd better get on up here. an earlierjoke by host regina hall saw smith laughing along. jada, i love you, gi jane 2, can't wait to see it, all right? but watch the reaction of wife jada pinkett smith when the comedian chris rock made fun of her shaved head. a remark that brought smith striding onto the 0scars stage. wow! audio of the live broadcast was cut as the actor screamed obscenities from his seat. smith's open—handed slap left the comedian visibly shaken and the celebrity audience wondering how they should react. that was the greatest night in the history of television. minutes later he was called back to the stage to collect the oscar for best actor. will smith! in a tearful acceptance speech, the king richard star blamed

his actions on the pressures of fame. in this business, you've got to be able to have people disrespecting you. and you've got to smile and you've got to pretend like that's ok. i want to apologise to the academy, i want to apologise to my fellow nominees. the evening began more conventionally with the best supporting actress award going to ariana debose, the first openly queer woman of colour to win an academy award for acting. so to anybody who has ever questioned your identity, ever, ever, ever, or find yourself living in the grey spaces, i promise you this, there is indeed a place for us. nominated eight times before in no fewer than seven different categories, sir kenneth branagh is finally an academy award winner. belfast earning him an oscar for best original screenplay.

we will never forget one of those lost in the heartbreaking, heart—warming, human story of that amazing city of belfast on the fabulous island of ireland. jane campion was named best directorfor the power of the dog, only the third woman in history to carry off that award. and star—studded applause in sign language greeted troy kotsur�*s award for best supporting actor for the dramedy coda. he is the first deaf man to win an academy award. this is dedicated to the deaf community, the coda - community and the i disabled community. this is our moment. and the oscar goes to... 0k, coda. cheering and coda's moment it was, indeed. the apple tv film was named best picture, the first time a streaming service has won top prize at the oscars.

whether the academy will penalise will smith for his actions here remains to be seen. the los angeles police department has issued a statement, saying it is aware of an incident involving two individuals at the academy awards, but adding that neither individual has so far decided to file a police report. the evening was overshadowed by a slap that was seen around the world, and calls are growing for will smith to be stripped of his oscar and barred from taking part in the oscars again. david willis, bbc news, at the academy awards. here with me now isjodie mccallum who is a tv presenter and entertainment reporter. good to have you with us. normally after the oscars there is only one thing we would be talking about, the winners, but it slightly different this time, isn't it, with everyone talking about will smith slapping chris rock. what did you make of the incident? that chris rock. what did you make of the incident? �* , ,. , . incident? at first the sceptic in me was like, incident? at first the sceptic in me

was like. this _ incident? at first the sceptic in me was like, this is _ incident? at first the sceptic in me was like, this is staged, _ incident? at first the sceptic in me was like, this is staged, this i incident? at first the sceptic in me was like, this is staged, this is i incident? at first the sceptic in me was like, this is staged, this is a i was like, this is staged, this is a pr stunt, because i know showbiz and i've been in showbiz too long and i think these things are always kind of setup, however, when i watched it, actually, no, it is not set up, and i can't imagine will smith's pr team saying yes and agreeing to a setup of this because obviously it hasn't worked out well for him at all. so no, i do think it's real, and i think his speech, the best actor's speech, is quite harrowing to watch, he is bawling his eyes out, kind of all over the place, and that was kind of what sealed it, thinking this is 100% real and not staged. it is all anyone is talking about, but in a way i feel the oscars produces behind—the—scenes 0sca rs produces behind—the—scenes are 0scars produces behind—the—scenes are probably quietly applauding because it is getting people to talk about the oscars, which hasn't happened in previous years, for a long time we have not had this much hype around it. twitter is a blaze, everyone is chatting about it and of course it brings more attention to the oscars generally, the awards and anything that happened on the night.

so in a way it is kind of worked out doing them a favour. you say it has worked out in the favour of the oscars but it hadn't worked out well 0scars but it hadn't worked out well for will smith at all. what oscars but it hadn't worked out well for will smith at all.— for will smith at all. what do you think could _ for will smith at all. what do you think could be _ for will smith at all. what do you think could be the _ for will smith at all. what do you think could be the implications i for will smith at all. what do you | think could be the implications for him of all this? i’m think could be the implications for him of all this?— him of all this? i'm really not sure, him of all this? i'm really not sure. to _ him of all this? i'm really not sure. to be — him of all this? i'm really not sure, to be honest. - him of all this? i'm really not sure, to be honest. i - him of all this? i'm really not sure, to be honest. i think. him of all this? i'm really not l sure, to be honest. i think with him of all this? i'm really not i sure, to be honest. i think with his pr and things they will be having an absolute crisis meeting at the moment. i'm not sure if he will be stripped of his 0scar. a lot of people are calling for him as well to be removed from the event, as it happened, but it was only minutes later he was then up for best actor, so maybe if that hadn't been the case may be he would have been removed quickerfrom case may be he would have been removed quicker from the event. case may be he would have been removed quickerfrom the event. i'm really not sure. he apologised quite safely and got the chance to apologise and you could see he was visibly upset, you could see the shame almost on his face as well —— apologised quite swiftly. i always say this, celebrities are only human and ifeel like people don't say this, celebrities are only human and i feel like people don't believe that. we all make mistakes, we have all had angry moments, we all get

upset. chris rock really insulted his wife. i think what chris rock said it was absolutely disgusting, however, what will smith has done is instead of being the bigger person he has made it worse because everyone is split now, twitter is a sea of division, some people think will smith was right to do what he did, other people say it was scandalous but at the same time what chris rock did was really, really bad and thatjoke was really poor. it's not aboutjust bad and thatjoke was really poor. it's not about just taking a joke. he said something deeply offensive and deeply personal about someone who can't control that. that is an illness that jada has and i thought it was a low blow. in terms of what will happen i'm not sure because i think people are still divided at the moment. ihla think people are still divided at the moment.— think people are still divided at the moment. ., ., ., the moment. no one can condone violence, the moment. no one can condone violence. and _ the moment. no one can condone violence, and it's _ the moment. no one can condone violence, and it's interesting i the moment. no one can condone violence, and it's interesting willl violence, and it's interesting will smith has apologised but not actually to chris rock. the focus clearly on will smith and chris rock. ~ ., ., , ., clearly on will smith and chris rock. ~ ., ., ~' clearly on will smith and chris rock. . . ., , ., 4' ., clearly on will smith and chris rock. ~ ., ., ~ ., ., rock. what would you like it to have been on? to — rock. what would you like it to have been on? to be _ rock. what would you like it to have been on? to be honest, _ rock. what would you like it to have been on? to be honest, i'm - rock. what would you like it to have been on? to be honest, i'm still- been on? to be honest, i'm still

kind of like taking it in that that even happen. i don't think any of us can imagine that situation because i don't think any of us imagined it even happening in the first place, you know? but in a way it has got everyone talking about the oscars. i'm not saying we should have violence at the oscars or to encourage this at the oscars, but we had the scandal in 2017 with the wrong best picture announcement and that got everyone chanting again. so in a way, i don't want to say good, but it has been good publicity for the oscars to get everyone chatting because honestly i love talking about the oscars, talk about it all the time, it is myjob. what i meant, jodie, if we were not talking about the slap, what should we have been talking about in terms of the stories on the night? i been talking about in terms of the stories on the night?— been talking about in terms of the stories on the night? i thought you were asking _ stories on the night? i thought you were asking me — stories on the night? i thought you were asking me how— stories on the night? i thought you were asking me how well- stories on the night? i thought you were asking me how well i - stories on the night? i thought you were asking me how well i wanted| stories on the night? i thought you l were asking me how well i wanted it to go. you did well to try and answer the question!- to go. you did well to try and answer the question! ariana debose, i actually interviewed _ answer the question! ariana debose, i actually interviewed her— answer the question! ariana debose, i actually interviewed her for - answer the question! ariana debose,

i actually interviewed her for the i i actually interviewed her for the ee bafta rising star award and to think she has won an oscar in the same year, the same awards season, we should be talking about that and the fact that rita moreno was in the crowd with her, she won the oscar for the same role years and years ago, so it was so nice ariana debose won it. and as the reportjust said, she is the first black openly queer woman to win an award like that, so obviously her speech was really inspiring. when she said dreams do come true i could feel myself welling up. we should be talking about that and also the fact that kenneth branagh won best original screenplay for belfast. that's been my film of the year. i know i'm a bit biased but it is my film of the year from january, right from the off, and i'm so glad he got the credit for it. of course koda got best picture, we've got to talk about that. that was so incredible and so well deserved. there were so many other great talking points on the night and ifeel the people who won deserved it, but at the same

time it doesn't mean the nominees were any less deserving because everyone was deserving this year. the talent this year was unbelievable and the competition. jessica chastain, i'm so glad she got recognition. there are too many events i could talk about. it also the red carpet was amazing. that's riaht, so the red carpet was amazing. that's right. so much _ the red carpet was amazing. that's right, so much to _ the red carpet was amazing. that's right, so much to talk _ the red carpet was amazing. that's right, so much to talk about. i the red carpet was amazing. that's right, so much to talk about. jodie | right, so much to talk about. jodie mccallum, thank you forjoining us on bbc news. away from the red carpet, a low—budget film has picked up best picture. it became the first of a film from a streaming service to win the award. joining us now isjemima edwards who is a coder, which stands for a child of deaf adults and also volunteers at the charity koda uk and ireland. lovely to have you with us, thank you forjoining us. i

wonder what you think is the significance for deaf people and the wider community of coda winning the best picture 0scar? i wider community of coda winning the best picture oscar?— best picture oscar? i think it is massive we — best picture oscar? i think it is massive we have _ best picture oscar? i think it is massive we have a _ best picture oscar? i think it is massive we have a film - best picture oscar? i think it is massive we have a film with i massive we have a film with accurate, authentic death representation in it, it is massive and proves it is possible to do that and proves it is possible to do that and there are deaf actors out there, interpreters out there, willing to facilitate these kind of things, and the resources are out there. it is “p the resources are out there. it is up to studios to make them happen. tell us what the film got right about the experience of deafness and being the child of deaf parents. the obviously i can't speak on the experience of deafness, but as a coda things like having your parents pull up in the car with loud music playing and being really noisy in the kitchen. those are the little everyday experiences you have that is like, i've never seen that in film before. so that was like a nice

little touch. there is a bit where ruby talks about how rubbish it is to have to listen to ignorant comments about your deaf family and how that is definitely an experience i've had many times of hearing these snide comments and thinking, 0k, do i tell my parents and upset them, or do i keep this to myself and cause myself more stress? it is one of those things. that was a very powerful moment, ifelt. what do you do come out of interest? when i was younger i very much felt a responsibility to keep it to myself, protect my parents at all costs, but growing up i realised they are fine, they don't need me to protect them. if i tell them, they are happy to take that weight off my. growing up has meant realising your parents are fine without you. i your parents are fine without you. i suspect the percentage of deaf people working in the film and television people is negligible.

where do you hope coda's victory might lead? in where do you hope coda's victory might lead?— might lead? in terms of the film industry or— might lead? in terms of the film industry orjust _ might lead? in terms of the film industry orjust generally? i might lead? in terms of the film industry orjust generally? why | might lead? in terms of the film l industry orjust generally? why do industry or 'ust generally? why do venerall . industry orjust generally? why do generally- i _ industry orjust generally? why do generally- i hope _ industry orjust generally? why do generally. i hope it _ industry orjust generally? why do generally. i hope it proves - industry orjust generally? why do generally. i hope it proves that i generally. i hope it proves that sort of children _ generally. i hope it proves that sort of children should - generally. i hope it proves that sort of children should not i generally. i hope it proves that sort of children should not be i generally. i hope it proves that i sort of children should not be used as interpreters, think is the main thing. it is not fair on the child or the parents. it is not giving accurate or proper information, and i'm quite lucky i grew up with the disability and dissemination act and then the equality act, but even then there has still been times when medical professionals or teachers have expected me to interpret for my parents instead of booking a qualified interpreter. —— disability and discrimination act. it is a massive burden on a child to have to do that, or to even be faced with the opportunity to say no and feeling guilt for saying no. i think having interpreters and understanding that children are not professionally trained, they shouldn't be used to interpret,

especially in important situations like a medical appointment. jemima edwards, like a medical appointment. jemima edwards. really _ like a medical appointment. jemima edwards, really good _ like a medical appointment. jemima edwards, really good to _ like a medical appointment. jemima edwards, really good to talk - like a medical appointment. jemima edwards, really good to talk to i like a medical appointment. jemima edwards, really good to talk to you, j edwards, really good to talk to you, thank you forjoining us on bbc news. let's catch up with the weather now. now it's time for a look at the weather with darren. the rest of this week will turn colder but today has been warm in the sunshine, we had some cool damp weather across northern england but i decided that some warm sunshine, thickening cloud in the english channel will develop wet weather across southern counties, the rain in the awesome easing off but we have wet weather in the far north of scotland, in mainland scotland, clear skies and a slight frost, matter elsewhere with lots of mist and fog coming in off the north sea to eastern england, a lot of that will lift in some places could stay cold and great through the day, otherwise sunshine developing a few showers, rain heading down into the

english channel and wetter wedding heading south across scotland and that will turn wintry over the hills and for all of us it will be a chilly day on tuesday with the coldest weather in northern scotland. that cold air will move south through the rest of the week, cold enough for some snow. hello, this is bbc news. the headlines: ukraine's president volodymr zelensky says his country could become neutral in a bid to end russia's invasion. the mayor of mariupol warns the besieged port city faces "humanitarian catastrophe" and says it must be completely evacuated. drama at the oscars as the hollywood actor will smith hits one of the presenters at the ceremony, chris rock, in the face. the incident overshadowed the main event — a historic win for coda, which became the first film from a streaming service to win best picture. pupils in england may face tougher targets in english and maths for primary and secondary schools.

sport now and for a full round—up, from the bbc sport centre, here's gavin. hello, rebecca, nice to see you. england's joe root says he should stay as the side's test cricket captain, following the series defeat to west indies. root�*s tenure has come under question again, after they crumbled to a 10 wicket defeat in grenada, and lost the deciding test. root survived the post ashes cull of senior roles within the england camp. he has been captain since 2017, has now overseen four series defeats in a row. they've won just once in 17 matches — and not had a run like this since the eighties. he still believes he's the right man for the job. i'm still very passionate about taking this team forward. and i feel like there's the support of the dressing room behind me. and, you know, i'm desperate to turn that around and to see them smile

and celebrate because we don't feel that far away. it's an easy thing to say, and it's probably a frustration for a lot of people to hear, but very passionate about taking it forward. and, you know, hopefully that will be the case. captain heather knight says england can still improve as they prepare for the semi—finals of the women's world cup. the defending champions lost their first three games and needed four successive wins to book a meeting with south africa on thursday, and speaking to bbc sport knight explained how difficult the team has found the last few months. it's been a stressful couple of months, quite a long tour and a difficult tour with the ashes in there as well but i think i pride myself on trying to state level, whether we do well or not, i try to stay the same person and bring up stability so it's been stressful, there have been things we had to change and try and get it right but after those three losses i think all the things that had gone wrong had

beenin the things that had gone wrong had been in our control and that is what made it so frustrating, but also something we could make right which we have done in the last four games. britain's cameron norrie has reached the fourth round of the miami open for the first time, beating hugo gaston of france. but he recovered to take the set six games to three. he controlled the second, but squandered 7 match points before winning on the 8th and moving into the last 16 — to face norway's casper ruud. norrie is also set to make the world's top 10 next week for the first time. the canadian men's national team finally ended a 36—year world cup drought after thrashing jamaica 4—0 in toronto. it means they've qualified for qatar with canada's all time top goal—scorer cyle larin, and tajon buchanan putting canada 2—0 up at half—time, beforejunior hoilett and an adrian mariappa own goal sealed the victory. ukrainian world indoor champion yaroslava mahuchikh has been speaking to bbc sport following a 1200—mile journey, over three days, from her home

in dnipro to belgrade. mahuchikh, who won gold in the high jump at the championships in serbia last week, was told not to return home and has been trying to find somewhere to live and train. she's been staying in germany but travels to turkey today fora training camp. physically i was so good and remember what i'd do before but mentally it's complicated to me because my heart remains to ukraine, to my father, to people who stayed in ukraine, to help protect our country, and i read news everyday and before the world championship, but when i go to track my coach says it will be difficult for you but you must forget now, for people and focus on a highjump here on track and you must show good results for

your country. that's all the sport for now. thank you, gavin. plans are in place to drive up attendance and improve behaviour in england's schools, according to proposals set out by the government. tougher targets in english and maths for primary and secondary schools in england are also on the cards, as well as additional help for children who fall behind. by 2030, ministers want 90% of children leaving primary school to reach the expected standards in reading, writing and maths. in 2019, the figure was just 65%. there's a hope the national average gcse grade, will rise from 4.5 to 5 by 2030. and schools will have to offer a minimum 32 and a half hours teaching a week. education unions have however criticised the plans, saying they lack ambition and won't do enough to help disadvantaged children. here's our education

editor, branwen jeffreys. let's go live to westminster, where the chancellor rishi sunak is appearing before the treasury select committee of mps to answer questions about his recent spring statement. proceedings are just beginning. let's listen in. various aspects of the spring statement and one of the areas we discussed was the head room in the fiscal targets. you have clearly had in this latest obr forecast a much more positive set of numbers than you had back in the autumn of last year, and yet the amount that has gone into additional headroom against your targets is relatively modest. they put about five billion and i think the stock and flow targets, you are looking at and flow targets, you are looking at a little over 1% on one of them and 1% on the other and given the huge uncertainties at the moment, how concerned are you that you were not able to put more headroom in their

to give you a better buffer against what might happen further down the line? ., ~ what might happen further down the line? . ~' ,, what might happen further down the line? ., ,, i. . ., what might happen further down the line? ., ,, . ., ., what might happen further down the line? ., . ., ., ., ,, line? thank you, chair, and thank ou for line? thank you, chair, and thank you for your— line? thank you, chair, and thank you for your question _ line? thank you, chair, and thank you for your question which i i line? thank you, chair, and thank| you for your question which i think goes _ you for your question which i think goes to— you for your question which i think goes to the — you for your question which i think goes to the heart of the challenges we are _ goes to the heart of the challenges we are grappling with and as the obr said the _ we are grappling with and as the obr said the outlook is especially uncertain, ithink said the outlook is especially uncertain, i think everyone can see that _ uncertain, i think everyone can see that if_ uncertain, i think everyone can see that. if anything the risks are weighted to the downside, most people _ weighted to the downside, most people would expect and given all of that it _ people would expect and given all of that it would be right for us to maintain — that it would be right for us to maintain a _ that it would be right for us to maintain a prudent buffer against our fiscal— maintain a prudent buffer against our fiscal rules, which is what we have _ our fiscal rules, which is what we have done — our fiscal rules, which is what we have done and it is about 8% of gdp on the _ have done and it is about 8% of gdp on the stock— have done and it is about 8% of gdp on the stock rule of debt in 2024 and you — on the stock rule of debt in 2024 and you are _ on the stock rule of debt in 2024 and you are right, that is a little bit more — and you are right, that is a little bit more then we had in october. would _ bit more then we had in october. would you — bit more then we had in october. would you say it is prudent, it is also point outjust1% move in interest rates could wipe it out immediately. it interest rates could wipe it out immediately-— interest rates could wipe it out immediately. interest rates could wipe it out immediatel . _, , ,

immediately. it could end they use the word relatively _ immediately. it could end they use the word relatively small— immediately. it could end they use the word relatively small changes | immediately. it could end they use| the word relatively small changes in the word relatively small changes in the macro— the word relatively small changes in the macro outlook could wipe it out and we _ the macro outlook could wipe it out and we could go to our range of what those _ and we could go to our range of what those are _ and we could go to our range of what those are and i am of course concerned. those are and i am of course concerned-— those are and i am of course concerned. ,, ., �* , , concerned. shouldn't you be putting more into the _ concerned. shouldn't you be putting more into the headroom? _ concerned. shouldn't you be putting more into the headroom? i - concerned. shouldn't you be putting more into the headroom? i am i concerned. shouldn't you be putting more into the headroom? i am sure| concerned. shouldn't you be putting i more into the headroom? i am sure we will aet more into the headroom? i am sure we will get into — more into the headroom? i am sure we will get into a — more into the headroom? i am sure we will get into a conversation _ more into the headroom? i am sure we will get into a conversation about i will get into a conversation about taxes _ will get into a conversation about taxes and — will get into a conversation about taxes and spending and the tax burden— taxes and spending and the tax burden is— taxes and spending and the tax burden is already relatively high and the — burden is already relatively high and the only way to put more in the headroom _ and the only way to put more in the headroom is— and the only way to put more in the headroom is to either spend less or taxed _ headroom is to either spend less or taxed more. — headroom is to either spend less or taxed more, there is the options for increasing _ taxed more, there is the options for increasing that headroom and we can have a _ increasing that headroom and we can have a conversation about that but given _ have a conversation about that but given where we are, i think the headroom _ given where we are, i think the headroom we have is in line with what _ headroom we have is in line with what previous chancellors have, but as you _ what previous chancellors have, but as you could — what previous chancellors have, but as you could say it could easily be wiped _ as you could say it could easily be wiped out — as you could say it could easily be wiped out and to give you a sense of some _ wiped out and to give you a sense of some of— wiped out and to give you a sense of some of the — wiped out and to give you a sense of some of the things that could do that, _ some of the things that could do that, if— some of the things that could do that, if you took the bank of england's economic outlook as opposed — england's economic outlook as opposed to the obr's, a credible institution, that could wipe out over— institution, that could wipe out over half— institution, that could wipe out over half of it so if the bank of england — over half of it so if the bank of england were right it would already be half—

england were right it would already be half or— england were right it would already be half or less. a 1% increase in interest— be half or less. a 1% increase in interest rates would completely wipe it out and _ interest rates would completely wipe it out and 1% change in the gdp ratio _ it out and 1% change in the gdp ratio will— it out and 1% change in the gdp ratio will be projected to be at high _ ratio will be projected to be at high levels relative to our history. there _ high levels relative to our history. there were — high levels relative to our history. there were questions about how sustainable that is in the obr have acknowledged they do not understand why it _ acknowledged they do not understand why it is _ acknowledged they do not understand why it is so _ acknowledged they do not understand why it is so high so any of those three _ why it is so high so any of those three things could happen and the headroom would be a lot less, which is why— headroom would be a lot less, which is why it _ headroom would be a lot less, which is why it is _ headroom would be a lot less, which is why it is right that we are disciplined on public spending and in the _ disciplined on public spending and in the short term have one eye on the future — in the short term have one eye on the future to make sure we have the fiscal— the future to make sure we have the fiscal space — the future to make sure we have the fiscal space we need to deal with things— fiscal space we need to deal with things as — fiscal space we need to deal with things as they arise. a fiscal space we need to deal with things as they arise.— things as they arise. a lot of pressure _ things as they arise. a lot of pressure expected, - things as they arise. a lot of pressure expected, i- things as they arise. a lot of pressure expected, i think, | things as they arise. a lot of- pressure expected, ithink, around pressure expected, i think, around further interventions that you might have to come forward with, thinking about energy costs as we go towards the autumn, so there is doubt, there is also the fuel duty reduction you have brought in but only for a year. politically it may be difficult to unwind that and a lot of

commentators would say that might be an area where you may struggle to hold the line on that. there was kind of issues also amount up to potentially quite a lot of further fiscal pressure, don't they? do those category of items were you? you are right, they do. on fuel duty at the _ you are right, they do. on fuel duty at the current forecasts assume fuel duty continues to be operated by inflation — duty continues to be operated by inflation every year. if that was not possible, we think abouti billion— not possible, we think abouti billion plus in the target year and if it was— billion plus in the target year and if it was not possible to increase fuel duty — if it was not possible to increase fuel duty or the temporary reduction for that— fuel duty or the temporary reduction for that and become permanent, that would _ for that and become permanent, that would he _ for that and become permanent, that would be another {2.5 billion so those _ would be another {2.5 billion so those are — would be another {2.5 billion so those are areas that would put downward pressure on the headroom that is— downward pressure on the headroom that is already subject to some challenge. that is already sub'ect to some challenue. ., that is already sub'ect to some challengah that is already sub'ect to some challenue. ., ., , challenge. you mentioned rightly that there is _ challenge. you mentioned rightly that there is always _ challenge. you mentioned rightly that there is always a _ challenge. you mentioned rightly that there is always a series i challenge. you mentioned rightly that there is always a series of i that there is always a series of choices, the headroom, what you do on tax and spending and growth is

the other element you are trying to keep as high as you can to relieve the pressure. on tax, you took a decision to make a change to the basic rate of income tax, to reduce that by 1p, 2024. why did you bake that by 1p, 2024. why did you bake that into the numbers now rather than site not having done that and increase the headroom, see how things went and then if it was prudent to cut tax further down the line, do it down. why did you bake it in now, given our earlier discussion about how uncertain things are working in the autumn i said the direction of travel on tax would be for reduction going forward given where the tax to gdp ratio already is, having had to deal with the effects of the pandemic and the damage to our economy and finances, with that done incremental decisions should be about reducing the tax burden for individuals and businesses to drive up growth. i set

businesses to drive up growth. i set out that the — businesses to drive up growth. i set out that the direction of travel in the autumn budget and be fleshed out in this— the autumn budget and be fleshed out in this budget because it's good to -ive in this budget because it's good to give people a sense of where we are trying _ give people a sense of where we are trying to _ give people a sense of where we are trying to head and by doing that it is helpful— trying to head and by doing that it is helpful because it creates discipline which is very beneficial about _ discipline which is very beneficial about having conversations about choices, — about having conversations about choices, the conversations we have had about— choices, the conversations we have had about tax shows people would like to _ had about tax shows people would like to see tax go down, so now having — like to see tax go down, so now having something to aim for means we can hopefully have a more disciplined conversation about incremental public spending which is already— incremental public spending which is already at— incremental public spending which is already at high levels so our collective priority is to deliver that _ collective priority is to deliver that income tax cut in 2024 and we can do— that income tax cut in 2024 and we can do that — that income tax cut in 2024 and we can do that best by maintaining discipline — can do that best by maintaining discipline on public spending. would i be riaht discipline on public spending. would i be right as — discipline on public spending. would i be right as interpreting _ discipline on public spending. would i be right as interpreting that - discipline on public spending. tactic i be right as interpreting that as saying cutting tax matters so much that you will bake it in now, defend that you will bake it in now, defend that position and then if pressure comes for further fiscal measures to be taken, you will hang on that bit

of it and the pressure will therefore fall on spending and may be against your fiscal targets, but that you have put the state in the ground that you are going to defend at all costs? i ground that you are going to defend at all costs?— at all costs? i think that's a fair summary _ at all costs? i think that's a fair summary with _ at all costs? i think that's a fair summary with the _ at all costs? i think that's a fair summary with the exception i at all costs? i think that's a fair| summary with the exception of, at all costs? i think that's a fair. summary with the exception of, i wouldn't — summary with the exception of, i wouldn't sacrifice fiscal targets for the — wouldn't sacrifice fiscal targets for the reasons we had... you wouldn't sacrifice fiscal targets for the reasons we had... you use up more headroom. _ for the reasons we had... you use up more headroom. it's _ for the reasons we had... you use up more headroom. it's important i for the reasons we had... you use up more headroom. it's important we i more headroom. it's important we meet those _ more headroom. it's important we meet those targets _ more headroom. it's important we meet those targets because i more headroom. it's important we meet those targets because it i more headroom. it's important we meet those targets because it is l meet those targets because it is important to have debt falling and that is— important to have debt falling and that is the right thing to do but also _ that is the right thing to do but also economically sensible, only because — also economically sensible, only because we have fiscal space and resilience — because we have fiscal space and resilience can you react in times of crisis _ resilience can you react in times of crisis to— resilience can you react in times of crisis to support people so it's important _ crisis to support people so it's important we do that but you were i’ili'lt important we do that but you were right in my— important we do that but you were right in my priority this time forward _ right in my priority this time forward being to keep cutting taxes, not to _ forward being to keep cutting taxes, not to increase public spending but the slight _ not to increase public spending but the slight differential i would say it is you — the slight differential i would say it is you use the word pressure or strain— it is you use the word pressure or strain on— it is you use the word pressure or strain on spending. public spending is already— strain on spending. public spending is already forecast to increase at significant — is already forecast to increase at significant levels over this parliament and what we are talking

about _ parliament and what we are talking about is _ parliament and what we are talking about is sticking with those expansive spending plan is to remind everybody _ expansive spending plan is to remind everybody public spending over the course _ everybody public spending over the course of _ everybody public spending over the course of the course of this parliament and what we are talking about _ parliament and what we are talking about is _ parliament and what we are talking about is sticking with those expansive spending plans to remind everybody _ expansive spending plans to remind everybody public spending over the course _ everybody public spending over the course of _ everybody public spending over the course of the sporran will increase by about _ course of the sporran will increase by about £150 billion in cash terms, representing a 3.7% priority going forward _ representing a 3.7% priority going forward will be on reducing taxes. the fact— forward will be on reducing taxes. the fact inflation is running away with itself and those departmental expenditure amounts being in cash terms means there will be some significant reduction. the terms means there will be some significant reduction.— significant reduction. the 3.7% i . ave significant reduction. the 3.7% i ave ou significant reduction. the 3.7% i gave you is _ significant reduction. the 3.7% i gave you is a — significant reduction. the 3.7% i gave you is a real— significant reduction. the 3.7% i gave you is a real terms - significant reduction. the 3.7% i j gave you is a real terms number after— gave you is a real terms number after inflation over the parliament so it takes— after inflation over the parliament so it takes into account inflation. the latest — so it takes into account inflation. the latest inflation forecast? in spite of that it is still 3.7% real terms — spite of that it is still 3.7% real terms growth over parliament which

is a significant increase. the real terms _ is a significant increase. the real terms cash — is a significant increase. the real terms cash number is 80 or 90, somewhere in that number. 88. to focus on taxation _ somewhere in that number. 88. to focus on taxation further _ somewhere in that number. 88. to focus on taxation further for i somewhere in that number. 88. to focus on taxation further for a i focus on taxation further for a second, overall i think would you accept that as a chancellor two years in the post, what you will probably have done by the end of august is raise the tax burden overall, but in this fiscal event you have gone back in the other direction, you started to put taxes down. but overall the tax burden will have increased. can you just share with the committee are your thoughts as to how progressive you think the tax rises you brought him across your period as chancellor are, and how progressive the tax reductions you have announced recently in the spring statement are caught in that there has been concern on the committee, there are a variety of views on this, as to whether this is all being done in a

fair way on the tax front or whether it's not been helpful enough to those who have been stung. in terms ofthe those who have been stung. in terms of the overall— those who have been stung. in terms of the overall tax _ those who have been stung. in terms of the overall tax burden, _ those who have been stung. in terms of the overall tax burden, you - those who have been stung. in terms of the overall tax burden, you are - of the overall tax burden, you are right, _ of the overall tax burden, you are right, it _ of the overall tax burden, you are right, it is — of the overall tax burden, you are right, it is forecast to rise and i think_ right, it is forecast to rise and i think the — right, it is forecast to rise and i think the important thing is to think— think the important thing is to think about the right baseline to compare — think about the right baseline to compare it to and is it forecast to rise to _ compare it to and is it forecast to rise to 2019? it is but that was before — rise to 2019? it is but that was before we _ rise to 2019? it is but that was before we got hit by a pandemic and the biggest economic shot in 350 years. _ the biggest economic shot in 350 years, ring that spiralled to world war ii _ years, ring that spiralled to world war ii levels so to ignore that when thinking _ war ii levels so to ignore that when thinking about the tax burden is not fair or— thinking about the tax burden is not fair or an _ thinking about the tax burden is not fair oran apples to thinking about the tax burden is not fair or an apples to apples comparison but the reason the tax burden— comparison but the reason the tax burden is— comparison but the reason the tax burden is rising simply is because public— burden is rising simply is because public spending is rising as a percentage of gdp so tax is forecast to he _ percentage of gdp so tax is forecast to he at— percentage of gdp so tax is forecast to be at relatively high levels, so was public— to be at relatively high levels, so was public spending. to finish the question— was public spending. to finish the question on tax, forecasts will be

hi-h question on tax, forecasts will be high by— question on tax, forecasts will be high by historic standards and most people _ high by historic standards and most people would get we have to raise the money to pay for the things the government is spending on so it's unsurprising those two things move together, _ unsurprising those two things move together, you cannot talk about one without _ together, you cannot talk about one without the other, unless you think the 6newer— without the other, unless you think the answer is to borrow lots and lots but — the answer is to borrow lots and lots but as — the answer is to borrow lots and lots but as you have said the headroom we have is not very much and could _ headroom we have is not very much and could easily be wiped out so i don't _ and could easily be wiped out so i don't think— and could easily be wiped out so i don't think that is the responsible thing _ don't think that is the responsible thing to— don't think that is the responsible thing to do, so that's what we are in the _ thing to do, so that's what we are in the situation so we are continuing to invest significantly in public— continuing to invest significantly in public services, we have not gone down _ in public services, we have not gone down the _ in public services, we have not gone down the route of austerity, we had expansive _ down the route of austerity, we had expansive plans to invest in levelling _ expansive plans to invest in levelling up on public services, we -ot levelling up on public services, we got hit _ levelling up on public services, we got hit by— levelling up on public services, we got hit by a — levelling up on public services, we got hit by a pandemic and then we had a _ got hit by a pandemic and then we had a choice and the choice was should — had a choice and the choice was should we — had a choice and the choice was should we do austerity and scale back— should we do austerity and scale back considerably on all those investments in the nhs and policing or levelling up or transport and social— or levelling up or transport and social care _ or levelling up or transport and social care or do we raise the money to pay— social care or do we raise the money to pay for— social care or do we raise the money to pay for them? we chose the latter

route _ to pay for them? we chose the latter route so _ to pay for them? we chose the latter route so in _ to pay for them? we chose the latter route so in the scheme of what's going _ route so in the scheme of what's going on— route so in the scheme of what's going on with the tax burden, that is linked _ going on with the tax burden, that is linked to— going on with the tax burden, that is linked to the pandemic and an expansive — is linked to the pandemic and an expansive set of public spending plans _ expansive set of public spending plans and a desire to get our borrowing back to a responsible level_ borrowing back to a responsible level and — borrowing back to a responsible level and depth to be falling in a couple _ level and depth to be falling in a couple of— level and depth to be falling in a couple of years. in terms of individual— couple of years. in terms of individual measures and whether they are fair— individual measures and whether they are fair and _ individual measures and whether they are fair and progressive, individual measures and whether they are fairand progressive, i'm confident— are fairand progressive, i'm confident they are. if you look at the two — confident they are. if you look at the two measures budgeted for in 2021 spring budget, the two measures that largely solve the problem of coronavirus on public finances, one was a _ coronavirus on public finances, one was a rise — coronavirus on public finances, one was a rise in— coronavirus on public finances, one was a rise in the corporation tax rate _ was a rise in the corporation tax rate so— was a rise in the corporation tax rate so large companies that are profitable — rate so large companies that are profitable will pay more in corporation tax, 70% of companies will he _ corporation tax, 70% of companies will be exempted from that change, there _ will be exempted from that change, there are _ will be exempted from that change, there are right will stay the same but the _ there are right will stay the same but the largest most successful companies will pay more but still at a rate _ companies will pay more but still at a rate that — companies will pay more but still at a rate that is internationally competitive, lowest in the g7. i'm

keen— competitive, lowest in the g7. i'm keen to _ competitive, lowest in the g7. i'm keen to stick to how progressive they are — keen to stick to how progressive they are. the other measure was freezing — they are. the other measure was freezing income tax personal allowances which was widely recommended by a range of different people _ recommended by a range of different people as _ recommended by a range of different people as being a progressive way to raise money, just by the nature of the income — raise money, just by the nature of the income tax system, obviously freezing _ the income tax system, obviously freezing thresholds raises more money— freezing thresholds raises more money from those on higher incomes in a way— money from those on higher incomes in a way that— money from those on higher incomes in a way that supports recovery because — in a way that supports recovery because it _ in a way that supports recovery because it builds over time and people — because it builds over time and people are not cash losers from that because _ people are not cash losers from that because it's — people are not cash losers from that because it's about a threshold increase — because it's about a threshold increase rather than taking cash out of people's— increase rather than taking cash out of people's pockets so i think those two measures are progressive, large profitable _ two measures are progressive, large profitable businesses and a progressive way to raise money over tinre _ progressive way to raise money over tinre in _ progressive way to raise money over time. in terms of the health and social— time. in terms of the health and social care — time. in terms of the health and social care levy, there are three ways _ social care levy, there are three ways you — social care levy, there are three ways you could have raised that amount — ways you could have raised that amount of— ways you could have raised that amount of money sustainably in my view _ amount of money sustainably in my view one _ amount of money sustainably in my view one is — amount of money sustainably in my view. one is vat, one is national insurance — view. one is vat, one is national insurance and one is income tax. of those _ insurance and one is income tax. of those three — insurance and one is income tax. of those three vat is the least progressive so the choices income

tax or— progressive so the choices income tax or national insurance and people will have _ tax or national insurance and people will have their view as to which would — will have their view as to which would have been the better base for the levy. _ would have been the better base for the levy, we have that debate and there _ the levy, we have that debate and there are — the levy, we have that debate and there are reasons income tax is potentially more progressive than nationat— potentially more progressive than national insurance but there are downsides which we discussed last time, _ downsides which we discussed last time, not — downsides which we discussed last time, not least that it is not a uk-wide _ time, not least that it is not a uk—wide tax, businesses that don't contribute — uk—wide tax, businesses that don't contribute to it directly and there is no _ contribute to it directly and there is no history in this country of operational or other hypothecation of that— operational or other hypothecation of that tax to the health service the waiter — of that tax to the health service the waiter is with national insurance but no—one could say it is not a _ insurance but no—one could say it is not a progressive way to raise that money. _ not a progressive way to raise that money, the — not a progressive way to raise that money, the top 15% of national insurance — money, the top 15% of national insurance payers will contribute the majority _ insurance payers will contribute the majority of — insurance payers will contribute the majority of the levy. it was described as a progressive way to raise _ described as a progressive way to raise money so the weight we read that has— raise money so the weight we read that has been progressive and in terms _ that has been progressive and in terms of— that has been progressive and in terms of the tax cuts, if you look at what _ terms of the tax cuts, if you look at what we — terms of the tax cuts, if you look at what we announced last week, a race to _ at what we announced last week, a race to the — at what we announced last week, a race to the national insurance personal—

race to the national insurance personal threshold to £12,500 was again— personal threshold to £12,500 was again described when it was announced in the campaign as the best way— announced in the campaign as the best way to help low and middle earners — best way to help low and middle earners through the tax system, so that's— earners through the tax system, so that's what— earners through the tax system, so that's what the institute for fiscal studies _ that's what the institute for fiscal studies said and that is because there _ studies said and that is because there is— studies said and that is because there is a — studies said and that is because there is a flat rate that disproportionally benefits those on lower— disproportionally benefits those on lower or— disproportionally benefits those on lower or middle incomes so i believe that was— lower or middle incomes so i believe that was the best way to cut taxes on working — that was the best way to cut taxes on working people so do i think the tax cuts _ on working people so do i think the tax cuts we — on working people so do i think the tax cuts we are doing are progressive? i do. we started back in 0ctoher— progressive? i do. we started back in october by cutting the taper right— in october by cutting the taper right in— in october by cutting the taper right in universal credit, significantly from 63% to 55%, a £2 bitiion— significantly from 63% to 55%, a £2 billion tax— significantly from 63% to 55%, a £2 billion tax cut and an improvement in the _ billion tax cut and an improvement in the generosity of universal credit — in the generosity of universal credit. not benefits those on the absolute — credit. not benefits those on the absolute lowest incomes. do you think universal _ absolute lowest incomes. do you think universal credit _ absolute lowest incomes. do you think universal credit is - absolute lowest incomes. do you l think universal credit is generous? those _

think universal credit is generous? those are — think universal credit is generous? those are the — think universal credit is generous? those are the two _ think universal credit is generous? those are the two tax _ think universal credit is generous? those are the two tax cuts - think universal credit is generous? those are the two tax cuts we - those are the two tax cuts we announced in october and not now, i believe _ announced in october and not now, i believe they— announced in october and not now, i believe they are progressive. we believe they are progressive. published believe they are progressive. , published our normal distributional analysis which shows decisions taken since 2019, where we will be by the end of parliament which shows the impact of tax is progressive as a percentage of net income. for what it's worth personally _ percentage of net income. for what it's worth personally i _ percentage of net income. for what it's worth personally i would - it's worth personally i would probably— it's worth personally i would probably accept— it's worth personally i would probably accept most - it's worth personally i would probably accept most of- it's worth personally i would | probably accept most of that it's worth personally i would - probably accept most of that but if we pick— probably accept most of that but if we pick up — probably accept most of that but if we pick up on _ probably accept most of that but if we pick up on your— probably accept most of that but if we pick up on your point _ probably accept most of that but if we pick up on your point about. probably accept most of that but if we pick up on your point about the type are _ we pick up on your point about the type are right, _ we pick up on your point about the type are right, so— we pick up on your point about the type are right, so you _ we pick up on your point about the type are right, so you are - we pick up on your point about the type are right, so you are right, i we pick up on your point about the type are right, so you are right, ifi type are right, so you are right, if you were — type are right, so you are right, if you were in — type are right, so you are right, if you were in work _ type are right, so you are right, if you were in work and _ type are right, so you are right, if you were in work and on - type are right, so you are right, if| you were in work and on universal credit— you were in work and on universal credit that — you were in work and on universal credit that has _ you were in work and on universal credit that has quite _ you were in work and on universal credit that has quite a _ you were in work and on universal credit that has quite a valuable i credit that has quite a valuable boost _ credit that has quite a valuable boost your— credit that has quite a valuable boost your income _ credit that has quite a valuable boost your income but - credit that has quite a valuable boost your income but if- credit that has quite a valuable boost your income but if you i credit that has quite a valuable i boost your income but if you are credit that has quite a valuable - boost your income but if you are not in work. _ boost your income but if you are not in work. and — boost your income but if you are not in work. and you _ boost your income but if you are not in work, and you were _ boost your income but if you are not in work, and you were on _ boost your income but if you are not in work, and you were on effects, i in work, and you were on effects, what _ in work, and you were on effects, what was — in work, and you were on effects, what was in — in work, and you were on effects, what was in the _ in work, and you were on effects, what was in the statement - in work, and you were on effects, what was in the statement you i in work, and you were on effects, i what was in the statement you have 'ust what was in the statement you have iust delivered — what was in the statement you have just delivered that _ what was in the statement you have just delivered that if— what was in the statement you have just delivered that if i— what was in the statement you have just delivered that if i were - what was in the statement you have just delivered that if i were in - just delivered that if i were in that— just delivered that if i were in that situation— just delivered that if i were in that situation gives _ just delivered that if i were in that situation gives me - just delivered that if i were in that situation gives me any. just delivered that if i were in - that situation gives me any cause for hope — that situation gives me any cause for hope when _ that situation gives me any cause for hope when it _ that situation gives me any cause for hope when it comes _ that situation gives me any cause for hope when it comes to - that situation gives me any cause for hope when it comes to the - that situation gives me any cause i for hope when it comes to the cost of living _ for hope when it comes to the cost

of living crisis? _ for hope when it comes to the cost of living crisis? for— for hope when it comes to the cost of living crisis?— of living crisis? for those on universal— of living crisis? for those on universal credit _ of living crisis? for those on universal credit it's - of living crisis? for those on | universal credit it's important of living crisis? for those on - universal credit it's important to remember— universal credit it's important to remember close to two thirds either are or— remember close to two thirds either are or can— remember close to two thirds either are or can work, so the vast majority— are or can work, so the vast majority of— are or can work, so the vast majority of people are in that category— majority of people are in that category so they will benefit not 'ust category so they will benefit not just from — category so they will benefit not just from the taper right but the increase — just from the taper right but the increase in— just from the taper right but the increase in the national living wage and a _ increase in the national living wage and a considerable support on the spending — and a considerable support on the spending side we are providing to help people get the skills they need to find _ help people get the skills they need to find their firstjob help people get the skills they need to find their first job for a new 'ob to find their first job for a new job that — to find their first job for a new job that pays more so there's an enormous — job that pays more so there's an enormous amount of spending going on, enormous amount of spending going on. a _ enormous amount of spending going on. a 26%_ enormous amount of spending going on, a 26% increase over this parliament in skills spending, and that will— parliament in skills spending, and that will all help those people so that will all help those people so that the — that will all help those people so that the vast majority of people who will benefit from those interventions and down for those who cannot— interventions and down for those who cannot there are a range of things, household — cannot there are a range of things, household support fund which we announced an extra £500 million for. very small— announced an extra £500 million for. very small in — announced an extra £500 million for. very small in the overall contact. its targeted support on top of the energy— its targeted support on top of the energy support package announced in

february— energy support package announced in february to— energy support package announced in february to take effect in a couple of weeks — february to take effect in a couple of weeks. ., , .,, ,, february to take effect in a couple of weeks. ., , .,, i. ., ., of weeks. can i stop you for one second, chancellor? _ of weeks. can i stop you for one second, chancellor? when - of weeks. can i stop you for one second, chancellor? when we i of weeks. can i stop you for one l second, chancellor? when we had of weeks. can i stop you for one - second, chancellor? when we had the obr in just second, chancellor? when we had the obr injust now we second, chancellor? when we had the obr in just now we asked them about how much it would cost to operate benefits by the rate of inflation rather than pegging it to the number backin rather than pegging it to the number back in september. {lister rather than pegging it to the number back in september.— back in september. over the scorecard — back in september. over the scorecard period _ back in september. over the scorecard period it _ back in september. over the scorecard period it would - back in september. over the scorecard period it would be| back in september. over the - scorecard period it would be about £25 billion. , " £25 billion. they figured 11 billion. so _ £25 billion. they figured 11 billion. so your— £25 billion. they figured 11 billion. so your 500 - £25 billion. they figured 11 l billion. so your 500 million, although it is your right targeted and it's useful in that sense and part of the art here is to keep trying to target and i accept it is difficult, it's quite a small amount compared to the amount of money it would cost to increase those benefits in line with what inflation is actually doing? if benefits in line with what inflation is actually doing?— benefits in line with what inflation is actually doing? if we go through the other things. .. _ is actually doing? if we go through the other things. .. but _ is actually doing? if we go through the other things. .. but on - is actually doing? if we go through the other things. .. but on that - the other things. .. but on that oint. .. the other things. .. but on that point... there _ the other things. .. but on that point... there is _ the other things. .. but on that point... there is also - the other things. .. but on that

point... there is also the - the other things. .. but on that. point... there is also the increase to the local _ point... there is also the increase to the local housing _ point... there is also the increase to the local housing allowance - point... there is also the increase | to the local housing allowance put in place _ to the local housing allowance put in place during the crisis and kept which _ in place during the crisis and kept which is _ in place during the crisis and kept which is worth about £600 to 1.5 million _ which is worth about £600 to 1.5 million people, an extra £1 billion or so _ million people, an extra £1 billion or so this— million people, an extra £1 billion or so. this year there is more money to help _ or so. this year there is more money to help people with council tax payments already in place and the energy— payments already in place and the energy package is disproportionately beneficial to those on lowest incomes _ beneficial to those on lowest incomes were not in work. so if there are _ incomes were not in work. so if there are various _ incomes were not in work. so if there are various things - incomes were not in work. ’ir f there are various things going incomes were not in work. 5r f there are various things going on but we cannot get away from the fact that if you are out of work and in benefits, there was very little in the spring statement especially when you take into account the number you shared with us and what the obr told us about the cost of that operating overall and in the context of the £500 million that has been set aside for the household hardship fund. which is what we have done previously and it is support targeted to local authorities knowing who the most vulnerable families _ knowing who the most vulnerable families are but as a general point,

if someone's view is that government can or— if someone's view is that government can or should make everybody hole for inflation especially inflation at these — for inflation especially inflation at these levels caused by global supply— at these levels caused by global supply factors then that's something i supply factors then that's something i don't _ supply factors then that's something i don't think is stomach nobody is saying _ i don't think is stomach nobody is saying that — i don't think is stomach nobody is saying that that you cannot make up for the _ saying that that you cannot make up for the whole extent of this. it is about— for the whole extent of this. it is about where you put the support and what it _ about where you put the support and what it amounts to and i'm just pointing — what it amounts to and i'm just pointing out there is a group who were _ pointing out there is a group who were struggling quite a lot and who have had, it appears, less support than other— have had, it appears, less support than other areas. there may be good reasons— than other areas. there may be good reasons for— than other areas. there may be good reasons for that but that is something we cannot entirely step away from. these are all choices and the choices— these are all choices and the choices we made our to cut fuel duty because _ choices we made our to cut fuel duty because given the cost of petrol and the majority of people rely on their cars, _ the majority of people rely on their cars. that — the majority of people rely on their cars, that has a significant tax cut that will— cars, that has a significant tax cut that will benefit the majority of

people. — that will benefit the majority of people, everyone who uses their car, to cut _ people, everyone who uses their car, to cut the _ people, everyone who uses their car, to cut the tax — people, everyone who uses their car, to cut the tax on working people by £6 to cut the tax on working people by to billion, — to cut the tax on working people by £6 billion, put 30 million people in work, _ £6 billion, put 30 million people in work. it's— £6 billion, put 30 million people in work, it's the right thing to do because — work, it's the right thing to do because some of the things we had to do have _ because some of the things we had to do have increased the tax burden so it's right _ do have increased the tax burden so it's right there is a priority to now— it's right there is a priority to now start _ it's right there is a priority to now start cutting taxes for those people _ now start cutting taxes for those people so — now start cutting taxes for those people so i think those are the right— people so i think those are the right thing to do and there was targeted — right thing to do and there was targeted support we have provided there _ targeted support we have provided there as _ targeted support we have provided there as you described but also an enormous — there as you described but also an enormous amount to help people move from welfare into work, understanding and tack site which is the most _ understanding and tack site which is the most sustainable route out of poverty — the most sustainable route out of poverty. gn the most sustainable route out of ove . ., , ., ., poverty. on the operating of benefits and _ poverty. on the operating of benefits and this _ poverty. on the operating of benefits and this point - poverty. on the operating ofj benefits and this point about poverty. on the operating of i benefits and this point about it being pegged to september, inflation is heading towards 8% more 9%, did you consider any measures along the lines of trying to smooth that pain from the september reference point to the neck september reference point, whether any approaches you had in mind and i'm curious as to

why you might not have explored that or done something around that issue? there is an operational question where _ there is an operational question where there is a four or five month operational— where there is a four or five month operational light between a policy decision— operational light between a policy decision and a system being able to implement it because of how the dwp systems— implement it because of how the dwp systems work so it's not possible to do in _ systems work so it's not possible to do in a _ systems work so it's not possible to do in a short— systems work so it's not possible to do in a short space of time in the first instance and one of the systems _ first instance and one of the systems can only do it once a year, and secondly it goes back to the broader— and secondly it goes back to the broader point that we discussed earlier— broader point that we discussed earlier and that's about borrowing and what — earlier and that's about borrowing and what is a responsible amount of borrowing _ and what is a responsible amount of borrowing at a time when we are worried — borrowing at a time when we are worried about the macroeconomic outlook, — worried about the macroeconomic outlook, especially with regard to interest _ outlook, especially with regard to interest rates and inflation and we are already now forecast to borrow in the _ are already now forecast to borrow in the sport— are already now forecast to borrow in the sport coming about 60% more as a percentage of gdp that our post-war— as a percentage of gdp that our post—war average, almost 20% more as

a percentage — post—war average, almost 20% more as a percentage of gdp then we were forecast _ a percentage of gdp then we were forecast to borrow in october so it's already _ forecast to borrow in october so it's already a significant amount of borrowing — it's already a significant amount of borrowing and myjob is to make the film borrowing and myjob is to make the right long—term decisions and my view— right long—term decisions and my view is _ right long—term decisions and my view is an— right long—term decisions and my view is an excessive amount of borrowing _ view is an excessive amount of borrowing is not the responsible thing _ borrowing is not the responsible thing to— borrowing is not the responsible thing to do for the short term because — thing to do for the short term because it may risk actually stoking inflation _ because it may risk actually stoking inflation further, which will harm the people we are trying to help if we make — the people we are trying to help if we make the situation worse, and overtime — we make the situation worse, and overtime having an irresponsible approach — overtime having an irresponsible approach to borrowing is not the right— approach to borrowing is not the right long — approach to borrowing is not the right long term nobody would advocate irresponsible approaches to borrowing but taxation is the other balancing act here. you chose to lower taxes... you is the other balancing act here. you chose to lower taxes. . ._ chose to lower taxes. .. you are talkin: chose to lower taxes. .. you are talking about — chose to lower taxes. .. you are talking about two _ chose to lower taxes. .. you are talking about two different - chose to lower taxes. .. you are i talking about two different things. talking _ talking about two different things. talking about 2022? you talking about two different things. talking about 2022?— talking about two different things. talking about 2022? you could have ut more talking about 2022? you could have put more relief _ talking about 2022? you could have put more relief into _ talking about 2022? you could have put more relief into that _ talking about 2022? you could have put more relief into that out - talking about 2022? you could have put more relief into that out of - put more relief into that out of work through a different path on

taxation. ~ , ,., , , taxation. absolutely right, in this forthcoming _ taxation. absolutely right, in this forthcoming year _ taxation. absolutely right, in this forthcoming year we _ taxation. absolutely right, in this forthcoming year we made - taxation. absolutely right, in this forthcoming year we made a - taxation. absolutely right, in this l forthcoming year we made a choice taxation. absolutely right, in this - forthcoming year we made a choice to cut taxes— forthcoming year we made a choice to cut taxes on— forthcoming year we made a choice to cut taxes on working people, 30 million — cut taxes on working people, 30 million people in work will benefit from the — million people in work will benefit from the increase in personal tax thresholds, disproportionately those on lower— thresholds, disproportionately those on lower and middle incomes. you are right. _ on lower and middle incomes. you are right, somebody else sitting here could _ right, somebody else sitting here could have said i'd rather spend that to— could have said i'd rather spend that £6 billion on the welfare system, _ that £6 billion on the welfare system, that's absolutely a choice someone — system, that's absolutely a choice someone else could have made, yes. why did _ someone else could have made, yes. why did you — someone else could have made, yes. why did you make it the way you have made it? i why did you make it the way you have made it? ~' ., ,., . , made it? i think the other policies we have got _ made it? i think the other policies we have got to — made it? i think the other policies we have got to help _ made it? i think the other policies we have got to help people - made it? i think the other policies we have got to help people on - we have got to help people on welfare — we have got to help people on welfare are the right approach to do that, they— welfare are the right approach to do that, they are more targeted, they help people move from welfare into work and _ help people move from welfare into work and we are spending a lot at cutting _ work and we are spending a lot at cutting the — work and we are spending a lot at cutting the tax on the uc side to do that so— cutting the tax on the uc side to do that so the — cutting the tax on the uc side to do that so the mix of polities we have is the _ that so the mix of polities we have is the right— that so the mix of polities we have is the right mix, and also as dan pointed — is the right mix, and also as dan pointed out, the distribution analysis— pointed out, the distribution analysis published has been very clear— analysis published has been very clear that — analysis published has been very clear that taken together the actions — clear that taken together the actions of this government over this parliament — actions of this government over this parliament are highly progressive. thank— parliament are highly progressive. thank you — parliament are highly progressive. thank you very much.— parliament are highly progressive. thank you very much. angela. thank ou ve thank you very much. angela. thank you very much. _ thank you very much. angela. thank you very much. good _ thank you very much. angela. thank you very much, good afternoon, - you very much, good afternoon, chancellor.

you very much, good afternoon, chancellor-— you very much, good afternoon, chancellor. ., ~ ., chancellor. good afternoon, angela. we are contemplating _ chancellor. good afternoon, angela. we are contemplating now— chancellor. good afternoon, angela. we are contemplating now the - chancellor. good afternoon, angela. i we are contemplating now the biggest fall in living standards since records began, according to the obr analysis. your spring statement has offset 1% of that. but the obr are still forecasting a 2.2% fall in living standards over the next financial year. living standards over the next financialyear. but living standards over the next financial year. but that goes up to 6% for the poorest. why haven't you done more to help those who are really going to struggle massively with this cost of living situation? i think, angela, with this cost of living situation? ithink, angela, it with this cost of living situation? i think, angela, it is probably the same _ i think, angela, it is probably the same answer we were just discussing with the _ same answer we were just discussing with the chair, so there is probably not much _ with the chair, so there is probably not much i — with the chair, so there is probably not much i can add to it. on turn of the living _ not much i can add to it. on turn of the living standards analysis, just so we _ the living standards analysis, just so we are — the living standards analysis, just so we are clear, the forecast drop on the _ so we are clear, the forecast drop on the way— so we are clear, the forecast drop on the way they calculate it was about _ on the way they calculate it was about 3% — on the way they calculate it was about 3% and the measures we have put in _ about 3% and the measures we have put in place. — about 3% and the measures we have put in place, significant measures, worth—

put in place, significant measures, worth about £20 billion, offset about — worth about £20 billion, offset about a — worth about £20 billion, offset about a third, so the considerable action— about a third, so the considerable action we — about a third, so the considerable action we have put in place is offsetting about a third of the drop in living _ offsetting about a third of the drop in living standards, which is a significant _ in living standards, which is a significant contribution. that is avera . e, significant contribution. that is average. and _ significant contribution. that is average, and the _ significant contribution. that is average, and the point - significant contribution. that is average, and the point i - significant contribution. that is average, and the point i was i significant contribution. that is - average, and the point i was making was actually that the poorest are hit harder by the squeeze. i was auoin to hit harder by the squeeze. i was going to get _ hit harder by the squeeze. i was going to get onto _ hit harder by the squeeze. i was going to get onto that, - hit harder by the squeeze. i was going to get onto that, the - hit harder by the squeeze. i was going to get onto that, the biggest contributor to that number is what happensm — contributor to that number is what happens... first of all, it is all entirely— happens... first of all, it is all entirely driven by prices, all right, — entirely driven by prices, all right, so— entirely driven by prices, all right, so the entire drop of living standards— right, so the entire drop of living standards is a function of the levels — standards is a function of the levels and if you look at where inflation — levels and if you look at where inflation was in the most recent numbers, — inflation was in the most recent numbers, very similarto inflation was in the most recent numbers, very similar to the euro zone _ numbers, very similar to the euro zone and— numbers, very similar to the euro zone and lower than the us and these are global— zone and lower than the us and these are global forces causing this drop in living _ are global forces causing this drop in living standards on prices. the combination of labour, income and taxes _ combination of labour, income and taxes is _ combination of labour, income and taxes is a — combination of labour, income and taxes is a net positive to living standards _ taxes is a net positive to living standards and the energy price cap, as i standards and the energy price cap, as i said. _ standards and the energy price cap, as i said. is — standards and the energy price cap, as i said, is the biggest determinant of what this number will actually— determinant of what this number will actually be, and the reality is none of us _ actually be, and the reality is none of us know — actually be, and the reality is none of us know what the price cap is going _ of us know what the price cap is going to — of us know what the price cap is going to be in the autumn. there is

an estimate — going to be in the autumn. there is an estimate in the obr. it is going to be in the autumn. there is an estimate in the obr.— going to be in the autumn. there is an estimate in the obr. it is due to no an estimate in the obr. it is due to .o u . an estimate in the obr. it is due to no u- b an estimate in the obr. it is due to go up by 4096. _ an estimate in the obr. it is due to go up by 4096. that's _ an estimate in the obr. it is due to go up by 40%, that's the _ an estimate in the obr. it is due to go up by 40%, that's the current i go up by a0%, that's the current estimate. go up by 4096, that's the current estimate. ., , ., , ., ., , estimate. that estimate is already out of date — estimate. that estimate is already out of date and _ estimate. that estimate is already out of date and on _ estimate. that estimate is already out of date and on the _ estimate. that estimate is already out of date and on the last - estimate. that estimate is already i out of date and on the last numbers isaw— out of date and on the last numbers i saw last— out of date and on the last numbers i saw last week it was already about 10% lower— i saw last week it was already about 10% lower than that from memory. it is incredibly— 10% lower than that from memory. it is incredibly volatile, and i think the highest at the forecast for the energy— the highest at the forecast for the energy price cap has been in the past _ energy price cap has been in the past few— energy price cap has been in the past few weeks for october has been something _ past few weeks for october has been something like £3500, the lowest has beeniust_ something like £3500, the lowest has beenjust over £2000, something like £3500, the lowest has been just over £2000, which something like £3500, the lowest has beenjust over £2000, which is not actually— beenjust over £2000, which is not actually 1 _ beenjust over £2000, which is not actually1 million miles away from where _ actually1 million miles away from where it— actually1 million miles away from where it was forecast to be in february— where it was forecast to be in february when we made the announcement about what we would do to help _ announcement about what we would do to help with _ announcement about what we would do to help with energy prices this year — to help with energy prices this year so— to help with energy prices this year. so thatjust to help with energy prices this year. so that just shows you the scale _ year. so that just shows you the scale of — year. so that just shows you the scale of volatility there, and that's — scale of volatility there, and that's why, as we have said very clearly— that's why, as we have said very clearly in — that's why, as we have said very clearly in the spring statement document, we will continue to monitor— document, we will continue to monitor the situation, and as we know— monitor the situation, and as we know more — monitor the situation, and as we know more and we are prepared to act if necessary _ know more and we are prepared to act if necessary. we have had this conversation now about what you are doing _ conversation now about what you are doing to _ conversation now about what you are doing to help certain people. clearly— doing to help certain people. clearly it— doing to help certain people. clearly it is very difficult to sit here — clearly it is very difficult to sit here today and speculate on what

happens — here today and speculate on what happens to energy prices, therefore the biggest impact on living standards in the autumn, let's wait until we _ standards in the autumn, let's wait until we get there and then we can decide _ until we get there and then we can decide on— until we get there and then we can decide on the most appropriate course — decide on the most appropriate course of— decide on the most appropriate course of action. but i don't think anyone _ course of action. but i don't think anyone knows today what that appropriate course of action ought to be _ appropriate course of action ought to be to— appropriate course of action ought to be. ., , , , ., appropriate course of action ought tobe. .,, , ., appropriate course of action ought to be. ., , , i. ., ., appropriate course of action ought to be. ., , , ., ., ., to be. to sum up you have made a olitical to be. to sum up you have made a political choice _ to be. to sum up you have made a political choice to _ to be. to sum up you have made a political choice to plunge - to be. to sum up you have made a political choice to plunge 1.3 - political choice to plunge 1.3 million people, including 500,000 children come into absolute poverty, on the figures we have now that is what you have chosen to do in your spring statement. ida. what you have chosen to do in your spring statement.— spring statement. no, what i've chosen to do — spring statement. no, what i've chosen to do is _ spring statement. no, what i've chosen to do is ameliorate - spring statement. no, what i've chosen to do is ameliorate on i chosen to do is ameliorate on average — chosen to do is ameliorate on average a _ chosen to do is ameliorate on average a third of the impact on living _ average a third of the impact on living standards from forces that are clearly outside of my control, global— are clearly outside of my control, global in— are clearly outside of my control, global in nature. we have come up with a _ global in nature. we have come up with a package that is progressive in the _ with a package that is progressive in the way— with a package that is progressive in the way it has been designed, and crucially— in the way it has been designed, and crucially will — in the way it has been designed, and crucially will not add to the inflationary pressures in a significant way, which would harm the very— significant way, which would harm the very people we care about and want _ the very people we care about and want to— the very people we care about and want to make sure that we do care for, want to make sure that we do care for. and _ want to make sure that we do care for, and have put in place specific support— for, and have put in place specific support to — for, and have put in place specific support to help them. now, i totally accept _ support to help them. now, i totally accept you _ support to help them. now, i totally accept you might have preferred to

say l'd _ accept you might have preferred to say i'd rather not cut taxes on 30 million _ say i'd rather not cut taxes on 30 million working people.— say i'd rather not cut taxes on 30 million working people. don't put words into my — million working people. don't put words into my mouth. _ million working people. don't put words into my mouth. you - million working people. don't put words into my mouth. you said . million working people. don't put words into my mouth. you said itj million working people. don't put l words into my mouth. you said it is a choice. don't _ words into my mouth. you said it is a choice. don't put _ words into my mouth. you said it is a choice. don't put words _ words into my mouth. you said it is a choice. don't put words in - words into my mouth. you said it is a choice. don't put words in my - a choice. don't put words in my mouth, a choice. don't put words in my mouth. l'm _ a choice. don't put words in my mouth, i'm asking _ a choice. don't put words in my mouth, i'm asking about - a choice. don't put words in my mouth, i'm asking about your l a choice. don't put words in my - mouth, i'm asking about your choice. we make decisions about how much is a responsible amount to spend and borrow _ a responsible amount to spend and borrow. ., . ., ., �* , borrow. chancellor, what i'm trying to do is tease _ borrow. chancellor, what i'm trying to do is tease out _ borrow. chancellor, what i'm trying to do is tease out your _ borrow. chancellor, what i'm trying to do is tease out your choices, - borrow. chancellor, what i'm trying to do is tease out your choices, i i to do is tease out your choices, i don't want you to speculate on what mine might have been. the issue here is that we have people on fixed rates of income that are going to suffer very, very badly in the next period, whatever happens in october. for example, a single person caring for their parent whose main source of income is there a carer�*s allowance of £67 a week, they are not going to be able to accommodate a huge trebled, quadrupled energy bill, are they? you haven't helped them. ~ ., ., ., . ., bill, are they? you haven't helped them. ., ., ., . ., ', ., them. we have announced a £9 billion worth of support _ them. we have announced a £9 billion worth of support in — them. we have announced a £9 billion worth of support in february _ them. we have announced a £9 billion

worth of support in february to - them. we have announced a £9 billion worth of support in february to help i worth of support in february to help people _ worth of support in february to help people with energy bills. social security benefits _ people with energy bills. social security benefits have - people with energy bills. social security benefits have been - people with energy bills. social security benefits have been cutj people with energy bills. social i security benefits have been cut by 12 billion in real terms, and —5% real terms cut in welfare and social security benefits doesn't seem the best way of approaching this vicious increase in the cost of living for those people on the lowest levels of income, fixed income. 50. those people on the lowest levels of income, fixed income.— those people on the lowest levels of income, fixed income. so, again, we have 'ust income, fixed income. so, again, we have just announced _ income, fixed income. so, again, we have just announced £9 _ income, fixed income. so, again, we have just announced £9 billion - income, fixed income. so, again, we have just announced £9 billion worth| have just announced £9 billion worth of support— have just announced £9 billion worth of support to help people with energy— of support to help people with energy bills. that is worth about half of— energy bills. that is worth about half of the — energy bills. that is worth about half of the increase in the price cap in— half of the increase in the price cap in april. it would disproportionately benefit those on lowest _ disproportionately benefit those on lowest incomes with smaller energy bills, and _ lowest incomes with smaller energy bills, and it's been clear that that's— bills, and it's been clear that that's what it will do. we also thought— that's what it will do. we also thought very hard about those people with prepayment metres to make sure that the _ with prepayment metres to make sure that the support we have designed will equally benefit them and have been careful about that, and the department for business has been working _ department for business has been working through the implementation of that _ working through the implementation of that. i'm very mindful of the impact — of that. i'm very mindful of the impact on _ of that. i'm very mindful of the impact on people in difficult circumstances or on low incomes, which _ circumstances or on low incomes, which is _ circumstances or on low incomes, which is why— circumstances or on low incomes, which is why i'm pleased our

policies _ which is why i'm pleased our policies are helping them. if you take a _ policies are helping them. if you take a single mother, for example, working _ take a single mother, for example, working full—time on the national living _ working full—time on the national living wage in rented accommodation, that mum _ living wage in rented accommodation, that mum is _ living wage in rented accommodation, that mum is going to be £1600 better off, £1600 _ that mum is going to be £1600 better off, £1600 better off as a result of the changes we have made on taxes and national living wage over the last few— and national living wage over the last few months and what we have announced — last few months and what we have announced last week, so that is putting — announced last week, so that is putting significant amounts of money into the _ putting significant amounts of money into the pockets of somebody like that, _ into the pockets of somebody like that, who — into the pockets of somebody like that, who of course needs our support — that, who of course needs our support. but to your broader point, there _ support. but to your broader point, there are _ support. but to your broader point, there are choices, and what i'm trying _ there are choices, and what i'm trying to— there are choices, and what i'm trying to balance between is what is a responsible amount of borrowing at a responsible amount of borrowing at a time _ a responsible amount of borrowing at a time when — a responsible amount of borrowing at a time when there is enormous uncertainty in the outlook? the risks _ uncertainty in the outlook? the risks are — uncertainty in the outlook? the risks are skewed to the downside, but upside — risks are skewed to the downside, but upside on inflation and interest rates, _ but upside on inflation and interest rates, and — but upside on inflation and interest rates, and within that constraint, how best — rates, and within that constraint, how best to target the support. you may say— how best to target the support. you may say you — how best to target the support. you may say you would be happy, not you, or one _ may say you would be happy, not you, or one may— may say you would be happy, not you, or one may say, if they don't like my choices, _ or one may say, if they don't like my choices, they'd be happy to borrow— my choices, they'd be happy to borrow a — my choices, they'd be happy to borrow a lot more. that'sjust not

something — borrow a lot more. that'sjust not something i— borrow a lot more. that'sjust not something i think is responsible or sensible _ something i think is responsible or sensible i— something i think is responsible or sensible. i think it has the risk of stoking _ sensible. i think it has the risk of stoking inflationary pressure and it's not— stoking inflationary pressure and it's not the right thing for the country— it's not the right thing for the country long term, we have to be responsible with borrowing and get debt down and that provides a restraint — debt down and that provides a restraint on what is possible and then— restraint on what is possible and then there — restraint on what is possible and then there is a choice about where to target— then there is a choice about where to target that support. i appreciate people _ to target that support. i appreciate people may have wanted to do more on welfare _ people may have wanted to do more on welfare and _ people may have wanted to do more on welfare and less to cut tax on people — welfare and less to cut tax on people in— welfare and less to cut tax on people in work. other people may have chosen to borrow lots more but those _ have chosen to borrow lots more but those are _ have chosen to borrow lots more but those are not the choices i would be comfortable with. you those are not the choices i would be comfortable with.— those are not the choices i would be comfortable with. you have increased taxes for people _ comfortable with. you have increased taxes for people in _ comfortable with. you have increased taxes for people in work, _ comfortable with. you have increased taxes for people in work, seven - comfortable with. you have increased taxes for people in work, seven out i taxes for people in work, seven out of eight of those people in work are having a higher tax burden this year, and the tax burden is higher at the end of what you have done thenit at the end of what you have done then it would have been... irate at the end of what you have done then it would have been... we should 'ust no then it would have been... we should just go through _ then it would have been... we should just go through that. _ then it would have been... we should just go through that. because - then it would have been... we should just go through that. because of- then it would have been... we should just go through that. because of the i just go through that. because of the increase _ just go through that. because of the increase in— just go through that. because of the increase in the nics personal threshold, 70% of nics ratepayers will pay _ threshold, 70% of nics ratepayers will pay less tax than they would otherwise, and that is as a result of the _ otherwise, and that is as a result of the measures.— of the measures. they will pay more... of the measures. they will pay more- -- lt _ of the measures. they will pay more... it is— of the measures. they will pay more... it is the _ of the measures. they will pay more... it is the net _ of the measures. they will pay more... it is the net figure - of the measures. they will pay| more... it is the net figure that matters. we take it all into account

in thresholds.— in thresholds. that is exactly ri . ht, in thresholds. that is exactly riuht, it in thresholds. that is exactly right. it is — in thresholds. that is exactly right, it is the _ in thresholds. that is exactly right, it is the net _ in thresholds. that is exactly right, it is the net impact, i in thresholds. that is exactly| right, it is the net impact, so in thresholds. that is exactly - right, it is the net impact, so yes, the levy— right, it is the net impact, so yes, the levy is— right, it is the net impact, so yes, the levy is coming in but there is a very significant increase in the national— very significant increase in the national insurance personal threshold.— national insurance personal threshold. �* ., ~ ., threshold. i'm talking about during a eriod of threshold. i'm talking about during a period of chancellor. _ threshold. i'm talking about during a period of chancellor. you - threshold. i'm talking about during a period of chancellor. you were i a period of chancellor. you were talkin: a period of chancellor. you were talking about — a period of chancellor. you were talking about this _ a period of chancellor. you were talking about this year _ a period of chancellor. you were talking about this year which - a period of chancellor. you were talking about this year which is l talking about this year which is where — talking about this year which is where most of the challenge is with inflation _ where most of the challenge is with inflation over the next 12 months. 70% of— inflation over the next 12 months. 70% of nics ratepayers will be better— 70% of nics ratepayers will be better off as a result of the way we have done — better off as a result of the way we have done the personal threshold increase — have done the personal threshold increase because it particularly targets— increase because it particularly targets those on low and middle incomes — targets those on low and middle incomes. fits targets those on low and middle incomes. �* , . targets those on low and middle incomes. . , ., , targets those on low and middle incomes. , ., incomes. as a result of you freezing incomes. as a result of you freezing in cash terms _ incomes. as a result of you freezing in cash terms income _ incomes. as a result of you freezing in cash terms income tax _ incomes. as a result of you freezing l in cash terms income tax allowances, everybody will be worse off. so you are being very partial in the way in which you are explaining this. you are only talking about this year's threshold increases. you are not talking about the fact that you have frozen income tax thresholds in cash terms. so income tax, levels of income tax and the burden of paying

income tax and the burden of paying income tax and the burden of paying income tax for those who pay it goes up. you can't only talk about, chancellor, one side of this equation and expect everybody to be fooled by the distorted view that that gives of the tax burden. the fact is the tax burden is going up, it was going up before the spring statement, and it's going up after the spring statement, is it not? so... i completely accept that and we had _ so... i completely accept that and we had that discussion with the chair. _ we had that discussion with the chair. and _ we had that discussion with the chair, and i went over in detail the measures— chair, and i went over in detail the measures we had put in place to raise _ measures we had put in place to raise taxes— measures we had put in place to raise taxes to fix the damage done by a coronavirus, and i talked very specifically— by a coronavirus, and i talked very specifically about corporation tax and the _ specifically about corporation tax and the freezing of income tax, personal— and the freezing of income tax, personal tax thresholds, i was pretty— personal tax thresholds, i was pretty transparent and open about that today as i was at the time that we did _ that today as i was at the time that we did it. _ that today as i was at the time that we did it. so — that today as i was at the time that we did it, so i'm not remotely saying — we did it, so i'm not remotely saying that that's not happening. i've saying that that's not happening. we also— saying that that's not happening. i've also confirmed it is a progressive thing to do, and the conversation we started this obsession with talked about, actually, _ obsession with talked about, actually, the space we have against our fiscal— actually, the space we have against our fiscal rules is relatively

modest _ our fiscal rules is relatively modest given the outlook, so yes, is the tax _ modest given the outlook, so yes, is the tax burden forecast to rise, as we discussed previously? it is forecast — we discussed previously? it is forecast to rise because we are continuing _ forecast to rise because we are continuing to invest strongly in public— continuing to invest strongly in public services to the tune of 3.7% real terms— public services to the tune of 3.7% real terms growth at the same time as recovering from a once in 350 year— as recovering from a once in 350 year economic shock. to focus on one without— year economic shock. to focus on one without the _ year economic shock. to focus on one without the other i don't think is reasonable. without the other i don't think is reasonable-— without the other i don't think is reasonable. ., _ , reasonable. you style yourself as a tax-cutting — reasonable. you style yourself as a tax-cutting chancellor _ reasonable. you style yourself as a tax-cutting chancellor but - reasonable. you style yourself as a tax-cutting chancellor but you - reasonable. you style yourself as a tax-cutting chancellor but you are | tax—cutting chancellor but you are not, are you? i tax-cutting chancellor but you are not. are you?— not, are you? i have not actually said that. _ not, are you? i have not actually said that, what _ not, are you? i have not actually said that, what i've _ not, are you? i have not actually said that, what i've said - not, are you? i have not actually said that, what i've said clearly i said that, what i've said clearly is i'm a chancellor that has had to deal— i'm a chancellor that has had to deal with— i'm a chancellor that has had to deal with the pandemic, and i've dealt _ deal with the pandemic, and i've dealt with— deal with the pandemic, and i've dealt with the pandemic, and when the pandemic is done with the desire to continue _ the pandemic is done with the desire to continue investing with more nurses, — to continue investing with more nurses, greater social co—investment, more police on the street. _ co—investment, more police on the street, levelling up, the choice we had was _ street, levelling up, the choice we had was to— street, levelling up, the choice we had was to either cut public spending significantly or continue to deliver— spending significantly or continue to deliver on our plans to improve quality—of—life for people through all of _ quality—of—life for people through all of those things but make sure it is paid _ all of those things but make sure it is paid for— all of those things but make sure it is paid for as we continue to get our borrowing under control to a

level— our borrowing under control to a level that — our borrowing under control to a level that l — our borrowing under control to a level that i think is responsible. that— level that i think is responsible. that is— level that i think is responsible. that is why the tax burden is going up. that is why the tax burden is going up l'm _ that is why the tax burden is going up l'm sure — that is why the tax burden is going up. i'm sure if i'd taken a different— up. i'm sure if i'd taken a different decision and i had said we would _ different decision and i had said we would slash public spending to get there _ would slash public spending to get there you'd be the first person to say. _ there you'd be the first person to say, hang — there you'd be the first person to say, hang on, austerity is back. the two things— say, hang on, austerity is back. the two things go together, the taxes are paying for significant increases in public— are paying for significant increases in public spending. the reason the birds _ in public spending. the reason the birds and — in public spending. the reason the birds and has had to rise because we have been— birds and has had to rise because we have been hit by a once in a century pandemic, — have been hit by a once in a century pandemic, a — have been hit by a once in a century pandemic, a once in a 350 year economic— pandemic, a once in a 350 year economic shock, highest borrowing since _ economic shock, highest borrowing since world war ii. i don't think it is reasonable to divorce those things — is reasonable to divorce those things. they are intricately linked, but l've _ things. they are intricately linked, but i've been clear from the autumn, from this— but i've been clear from the autumn, from this point on, now that that repair— from this point on, now that that repair work— from this point on, now that that repair work has been done, the priority— repair work has been done, the priority going forward is to reduce taxes _ priority going forward is to reduce taxes let's— priority going forward is to reduce taxes. let's see where we get to over— taxes. let's see where we get to over time _ taxes. let's see where we get to over time but the priority with the marginal— over time but the priority with the marginal pound over this point is to reduce _ marginal pound over this point is to reduce taxes, but yes, after having taken _ reduce taxes, but yes, after having taken some — reduce taxes, but yes, after having taken some decisions to correct the damage _ taken some decisions to correct the damage that was done. that's the story— damage that was done. that's the story is— damage that was done. that's the story is it. — damage that was done. that's the story is it. is — damage that was done. that's the story is it, is plain and simple as that _ story is it, is plain and simple as that i— story is it, is plain and simple as that i don't— story is it, is plain and simple as that. i don't think anybody is trying — that. idon't think anybody is trying to— that. i don't think anybody is trying to overcame anything beyond that. ., ., ., ~ , .

trying to overcame anything beyond that. ., ., ., ~ '. that. the national audit office has said that between _ that. the national audit office has said that between 12.4 _ that. the national audit office has said that between 12.4 billion - that. the national audit office has said that between 12.4 billion up i that. the national audit office has| said that between 12.4 billion up to £20 billion has been wasted in the emergency coronavirus schemes. the treasury has no knowledge of, or little in the way of consequences of fraud to our economy and —— to society, that's fair comment, isn't it? i society, that's fair comment, isn't it? ., �* , , society, that's fair comment, isn't it? , , ., it? i don't believe it is fair. auain, it? i don't believe it is fair. again. it — it? i don't believe it is fair. again. it is _ it? i don't believe it is fair. again, it is important - it? i don't believe it is fair. again, it is important to i it? i don't believe it is fair. - again, it is important to remember the context — again, it is important to remember the context. whether it was on furlough. — the context. whether it was on furlough, orwhether the context. whether it was on furlough, or whether it was on something like the bounce back loan schemes. _ something like the bounce back loan schemes, the absolute priority was to try— schemes, the absolute priority was to try and — schemes, the absolute priority was to try and get support to people who needed _ to try and get support to people who needed it. _ to try and get support to people who needed it, often people on very low incomes— needed it, often people on very low incomes who we have been discussing rightly. _ incomes who we have been discussing rightly. as— incomes who we have been discussing rightly, as quickly as possible in the midst— rightly, as quickly as possible in the midst of a crisis. in myjob i have _ the midst of a crisis. in myjob i have to — the midst of a crisis. in myjob i have to make certain trade—offs in that and _ have to make certain trade—offs in that and i— have to make certain trade—offs in that and i can put all the tricks i want _ that and i can put all the tricks i want at — that and i can put all the tricks i want at the _ that and i can put all the tricks i want at the beginning of a process and that— want at the beginning of a process and that would have meant it would

have taken — and that would have meant it would have taken weeks and weeks and weeks. _ have taken weeks and weeks and weeks. for— have taken weeks and weeks and weeks, for example, to get the money out to— weeks, for example, to get the money out to the _ weeks, for example, to get the money out to the over1 million small businesses that ultimately did get it, whereas at the time, and i remember— it, whereas at the time, and i remember being in parliament on an almost— remember being in parliament on an almost daily basis at the time being asked _ almost daily basis at the time being asked rightly by colleagues, we need money— asked rightly by colleagues, we need money and _ asked rightly by colleagues, we need money and ours, let alone days and weeks. _ money and ours, let alone days and weeks. it— money and ours, let alone days and weeks. it is— money and ours, let alone days and weeks, it is ours, orwe have money and ours, let alone days and weeks, it is ours, or we have to lay off everyone — weeks, it is ours, or we have to lay off everyone. that's the trade—offs we were _ off everyone. that's the trade—offs we were making. so we designed things— we were making. so we designed things in— we were making. so we designed things in the way that we did. now of course — things in the way that we did. now of course we take fraud really seriously. _ of course we take fraud really seriously, we haven't written anything _ seriously, we haven't written anything. we are going after anyone who may— anything. we are going after anyone who may well have defrauded the taxpayer— who may well have defrauded the taxpayer in both the hmrc schemes and the _ taxpayer in both the hmrc schemes and the loan schemes. we started taking _ and the loan schemes. we started taking action on this over a year a-o taking action on this over a year ago by— taking action on this over a year ago by investing extra money, £100 million. _ ago by investing extra money, £100 million, into hmrc to hire an extra 1200 _ million, into hmrc to hire an extra 1200 people to do this. the taxpayer protection _ 1200 people to do this. the taxpayer protection task force. they have already— protection task force. they have already covered 500 million and are forecast _ already covered 500 million and are forecast to— already covered 500 million and are forecast to recover at least another 1 billion _ forecast to recover at least another 1 billion plus. we will update on how that — 1 billion plus. we will update on how that work is going in the coming months _ how that work is going in the coming

months my— how that work is going in the coming months. my sense is we are doing a good _ months. my sense is we are doing a good job— months. my sense is we are doing a good job in— months. my sense is we are doing a good job in getting the fraud estimates down to a level which will end up— estimates down to a level which will end up being in the context of what we are _ end up being in the context of what we are dealing with acceptable. and on the _ we are dealing with acceptable. and on the bounce back loan side, we have _ on the bounce back loan side, we have blocked £2 billion worth of loans. _ have blocked £2 billion worth of loans, there are dozens of arrests that have — loans, there are dozens of arrests that have been made, we have taken new powers — that have been made, we have taken new powers to strike people off, and we are _ new powers to strike people off, and we are creating new data and fraud analytics _ we are creating new data and fraud analytics to — we are creating new data and fraud analytics to go after people and there _ analytics to go after people and there was more money announced for all of that— there was more money announced for all of that last week.— all of that last week. lohan agnew ointed all of that last week. lohan agnew pointed out _ all of that last week. lohan agnew pointed out in _ all of that last week. lohan agnew pointed out in his _ all of that last week. lohan agnew pointed out in his evidence - all of that last week. lohan agnew pointed out in his evidence to - all of that last week. lohan agnew pointed out in his evidence to us i all of that last week. lohan agnew| pointed out in his evidence to us on this issue that between 1000 and 1500 companies who were given bounce back loans didn't exist previously to the pandemic, and that wasn't even checked before they were given any loans. he estimated that 4 billion lost if the average loan was £40,000, there would have been 100,000 occurrences of fraud and you have made 49 arrests. the fact is

that if you did more about fraud there would be more money to spend on helping your priorities, or my priorities, whoever�*s priorities. this is an anaemic, complacent response to the expenditure of public money, isn't it? i completely re'ect public money, isn't it? i completely reject that. — public money, isn't it? i completely reject that. and _ public money, isn't it? i completely reject that, and actually _ public money, isn't it? i completely reject that, and actually i _ public money, isn't it? i completely reject that, and actually i think - public money, isn't it? i completely reject that, and actually i think we i reject that, and actually i think we have _ reject that, and actually i think we have paid — reject that, and actually i think we have paid out on fraud claims on bounce — have paid out on fraud claims on bounce back loans 20 million, £30 million _ bounce back loans 20 million, £30 million so — bounce back loans 20 million, £30 million so far because we are aggressively making sure we don't pay out _ aggressively making sure we don't pay out unnecessarily. why aggressively making sure we don't pay out unnecessarily.— aggressively making sure we don't pay out unnecessarily. why did lloyd at new, pay out unnecessarily. why did lloyd agnew. your — pay out unnecessarily. why did lloyd agnew. your own _ pay out unnecessarily. why did lloyd agnew, your own minister, - pay out unnecessarily. why did lloyd agnew, your own minister, resigned| agnew, your own minister, resigned in frustration? that agnew, your own minister, resigned in frustration?— in frustration? that is a question for him. in frustration? that is a question for him- the _ in frustration? that is a question for him. the fraud _ in frustration? that is a question for him. the fraud losses - in frustration? that is a question i for him. the fraud losses estimated from bounce back loans has gone down by a third _ from bounce back loans has gone down bya third it— from bounce back loans has gone down by a third. it was meant to be about 4.9 by a third. it was meant to be about 49 billion _ by a third. it was meant to be about 4.9 billion from memory, it has been cut by— 4.9 billion from memory, it has been cut by citi— 4.9 billion from memory, it has been cut by £1.6 billion. so it has already— cut by £1.6 billion. so it has already been cut by a third, the fraud _ already been cut by a third, the fraud estimates come after the accounts — fraud estimates come after the accounts last year were published because _ accounts last year were published because we are making very good

progress — because we are making very good progress. and actually at the time people _ progress. and actually at the time people were expecting something like 60% of— people were expecting something like 60% of the value of these bounce back loans — 60% of the value of these bounce back loans to be lost, and everyone knew _ back loans to be lost, and everyone knew that _ back loans to be lost, and everyone knew that at the time we did them. as it turns — knew that at the time we did them. as it turns out, because of the other— as it turns out, because of the other things we have done to grow the economy, 80% of that loan portfolio — the economy, 80% of that loan portfolio is currently performing well. _ portfolio is currently performing well, which in the context of how it was done _ well, which in the context of how it was done i— well, which in the context of how it was done i think is a very positive result— was done i think is a very positive result for— was done i think is a very positive result for the taxpayer are far more was expected to have to be written off, actually. i don't know if you have _ off, actually. i don't know if you have anything to add, dan. the only thins i have anything to add, dan. the only things i would _ have anything to add, dan. the only things i would add _ have anything to add, dan. the only things i would add are _ have anything to add, dan. the only things i would add are in _ have anything to add, dan. the only things i would add are in the - things i would add are in the economic and fiscal outlook, the obr have reduced my not quite half the estimate of loan guarantee fraud compared to the annual report and accounts and they say the sum should be considered against the potential economic costs of acting more slowly and they think it is not unreasonable to think that the economic costs of taking more time in designing the schemes and money not getting to people could have

been a far greater. one of the reasons there has been a reduction in their estimate in the cost of pandemic support is pics of their revision downwards of the loan guarantees being called and also loan guarantees. there have been changes in these forecasts. lord at new changes in these forecasts. lord agnew said _ changes in these forecasts. lord agnew said he — changes in these forecasts. lord agnew said he thought there was a complete disjunction between the level of criminality and the enforcement capacity. why have you cut the national crime agency's budget by 4.5%? i cut the national crime agency's budget by 4.5%?— cut the national crime agency's budget by 4.596? i don't believe it has been cut. _ budget by 4.596? i don't believe it has been cut, we _ budget by 4.596? i don't believe it has been cut, we have _ budget by 4.596? i don't believe it has been cut, we have invested i budget by 4.596? i don't believe it i has been cut, we have invested £63 million _ has been cut, we have invested £63 million more in economic crime at the last— million more in economic crime at the last spending review and also raising _ the last spending review and also raising £100 million economic crime levy for— raising £100 million economic crime levy for the — raising £100 million economic crime levy for the first time that's been allocated — levy for the first time that's been allocated to combat economic crime and last— allocated to combat economic crime and last week we put extra money into creating a public sector fraud authority— into creating a public sector fraud authority at the cabinet office but also to _ authority at the cabinet office but also to give more money for the nca

or natis. _ also to give more money for the nca or natis, we are figuring out what works— or natis, we are figuring out what works more — or natis, we are figuring out what works more effectively and giving them _ works more effectively and giving them more resources so they can do more _ them more resources so they can do more of— them more resources so they can do more of it _ them more resources so they can do more of it. are them more resources so they can do more of it— more of it. are you confident in the sanctions regimes _ more of it. are you confident in the sanctions regimes that _ more of it. are you confident in the sanctions regimes that are - more of it. are you confident in the sanctions regimes that are being i more of it. are you confident in the i sanctions regimes that are being put into place at the moment following the russian invasion of ukraine are going to be enforced properly, when i think at the last count we had 37.8 full time equivalent people running that regime in the treasury? the sanctions regime is overseen by a part— the sanctions regime is overseen by a part of— the sanctions regime is overseen by a part of the — the sanctions regime is overseen by a part of the treasury but a separate _ a part of the treasury but a separate body, from memory they had about— separate body, from memory they had about 45-49 _ separate body, from memory they had about 45—49 full—time equivalents previous— about 45—49 full—time equivalents previous to this and they are on course — previous to this and they are on course and _ previous to this and they are on course and have been given the resources — course and have been given the resources to double that number, and they are _ resources to double that number, and they are already hiring. is it 45 or 49? _ they are already hiring. is it 45 or 49? it _ they are already hiring. is it 45 or 49? it is — they are already hiring. is it 45 or 49? it is one _ they are already hiring. is it 45 or 49? it is one of the two and they are doubling that number, in the process— are doubling that number, in the process of— are doubling that number, in the process of it. are you confident

they— process of it. are you confident they are — process of it. are you confident they are hiring at the right level? they— they are hiring at the right level? they are — they are hiring at the right level? they are being given the resources they need — they are being given the resources they need after we asked them what they need after we asked them what they need _ they need after we asked them what they need. they are doubling their resources. — they need. they are doubling their resources. i— they need. they are doubling their resources, i don't how quickly, but they have — resources, i don't how quickly, but they have started the process already— they have started the process already of recruiting the doubling of people. already of recruiting the doubling of --eole. �* ., , already of recruiting the doubling of people.- thank- already of recruiting the doubling of people.- thank you, i of people. anthony. thank you, chair, of people. anthony. thank you, chair. hello. — of people. anthony. thank you, chair, hello, chancellor. - of people. anthony. thank you, chair, hello, chancellor. therei of people. anthony. thank you, - chair, hello, chancellor. there were many calls for you to scrap or delay the increase in national insurance but raised the threshold instead. why do you decide not to delay it or scrap it? for why do you decide not to delay it or scra it? ., ., , ., ., , scrap it? for a number of reasons. first of all. — scrap it? for a number of reasons. first of all. i _ scrap it? for a number of reasons. first of all, ithink— scrap it? for a number of reasons. first of all, i think it _ scrap it? for a number of reasons. first of all, i think it is _ scrap it? for a number of reasons. first of all, i think it is right - first of all, i think it is right that— first of all, i think it is right that the _ first of all, i think it is right that the country's number one priority. — that the country's number one priority, which is the nhs and social— priority, which is the nhs and social care alongside it, has a dedicated _ social care alongside it, has a dedicated source of funding so that we can— dedicated source of funding so that we can be — dedicated source of funding so that we can be confident about its future and make _ we can be confident about its future and make sure it has the funding it needs. _ and make sure it has the funding it needs. not— and make sure it has the funding it needs, notjust today, to deal with the unprecedented backlog, which i think everyone wants to see addressed, but also over time with

demographic pressures on the social care side _ demographic pressures on the social care side rise and one of the lessons _ care side rise and one of the lessons from the pandemic is we want to invest _ lessons from the pandemic is we want to invest more in social care so it is right— to invest more in social care so it is right for— to invest more in social care so it is right for the first time there is this dedicated funding screen people can be _ this dedicated funding screen people can be reassured that every penny of this new— can be reassured that every penny of this new levy will go to the thing that they— this new levy will go to the thing that they care most about and we have _ that they care most about and we have a _ that they care most about and we have a history of doing that through the nics _ have a history of doing that through the nics which we have discussed. but it— the nics which we have discussed. but it is— the nics which we have discussed. but it is also a very progressive way to — but it is also a very progressive way to fund the health service, as we have _ way to fund the health service, as we have discussed the top 15% of taxpayers — we have discussed the top 15% of taxpayers account for over half the revenue _ taxpayers account for over half the revenue raised. so if you are looking — revenue raised. so if you are looking for an answer so the second thing _ looking for an answer so the second thing is _ looking for an answer so the second thing isi'ust— looking for an answer so the second thing isjust the right thing in and of its _ thing isjust the right thing in and of its own— thing isjust the right thing in and of its own terms, secondly if you are asking — of its own terms, secondly if you are asking how best to help with the cost of— are asking how best to help with the cost of living, should i scrap that, as we _ cost of living, should i scrap that, as we have — cost of living, should i scrap that, as we have been discussing, given it is so _ as we have been discussing, given it is so progressive, the majority of the benat— is so progressive, the majority of the benat of of scrapping it would accrue _ the benat of of scrapping it would accrue to — the benat of of scrapping it would accrue to the top 15% of taxpayers, what _ accrue to the top 15% of taxpayers, what we _ accrue to the top 15% of taxpayers, what we have done by raising the thresholds, national insurance thresholds, national insurance thresholds, by such a considerable amount—

thresholds, by such a considerable amount is— thresholds, by such a considerable amount is hugely beneficial for those — amount is hugely beneficial for those on — amount is hugely beneficial for those on low and middle incomes, ensuring _ those on low and middle incomes, ensuring 70% of nics ratepayers are better— ensuring 70% of nics ratepayers are better off _ ensuring 70% of nics ratepayers are better off with the combination of those _ better off with the combination of those things. —— the benefit of scrapping _ those things. —— the benefit of scrapping. what we have done is much more _ scrapping. what we have done is much more progressive and will alleviate the strain — more progressive and will alleviate the strain people are feeling on their— the strain people are feeling on their household budgets in a way that scrapping that levy wouldn't have done and i don't think would have _ have done and i don't think would have been— have done and i don't think would have been good in the long term because — have been good in the long term because we want a good source of funding _ because we want a good source of funding for— because we want a good source of funding for the thing we care most about _ funding for the thing we care most about. ~ , ., ., , about. when you raised the threshold. _ about. when you raised the threshold, you _ about. when you raised the threshold, you made - about. when you raised the threshold, you made the i about. when you raised the i threshold, you made the point about. when you raised the - threshold, you made the point you were raising it to the exact threshold of income tax, £12,570, and you quoted the centre for equality studies that universal... why is it so important that those thresholds are the same level? is that any policy going forwards? it was a manifesto commitment that government made and the prime minister— government made and the prime minister announced in the election campaign — minister announced in the election campaign so it is nice to be able to fulfil it— campaign so it is nice to be able to fulfil it and — campaign so it is nice to be able to fulfil it and it is there is two things. _ fulfil it and it is there is two things, one is one is it is a progressive way to reward work, make sure workplace, cutting taxes on

working — sure workplace, cutting taxes on working people, but doing so in a way that— working people, but doing so in a way that disproportionately benefits low and _ way that disproportionately benefits low and middle incomes but also represents a simple vocation of the tax system — represents a simple vocation of the tax system in a sense, because we had a _ tax system in a sense, because we had a situation where unearned income — had a situation where unearned income was, or earned income rather, was being _ income was, or earned income rather, was being taxed before unearned income _ was being taxed before unearned income because of their misalignment income because of their misalignment in those _ income because of their misalignment in those thresholds and this is a simplification of the system so it's easier— simplification of the system so it's easier for— simplification of the system so it's easier for people to understand, for the first— easier for people to understand, for the first £12,570 that i earn i will not pay — the first £12,570 that i earn i will not pay a — the first £12,570 that i earn i will not pay a penny of national insurance or income tax. you mentioned — insurance or income tax. you mentioned just _ insurance or income tax. you mentioned just now, - insurance or income tax. you mentioned just now, but i insurance or income tax. 9m. mentioned just now, but also many times previously, the increase in national insurance, health and social care levy, is hypothecated for the nhs and social care. you have reduced the threshold which will mean less income. does that mean there will be less money for health and social care? ida. mean there will be less money for health and social care?— health and social care? no, for a coule health and social care? no, for a couple of — health and social care? no, for a couple of reasons. _ health and social care? no, for a couple of reasons. firstly, i health and social care? no, for a couple of reasons. firstly, we i health and social care? no, for a i couple of reasons. firstly, we have set those _ couple of reasons. firstly, we have set those budgets and they are the budgets _ set those budgets and they are the budgets so the nhs and social care will receive the budgets they were given— will receive the budgets they were given at— will receive the budgets they were given at the spending review and all the fluctuations up—and—down in the

levy revenue over the short term will be _ levy revenue over the short term will be absorbed more generally. but then more _ will be absorbed more generally. but then more specifically, actually, then more specifically, actually, the vast. — then more specifically, actually, the vast, vast, vast majority of the levy revenue — the vast, vast, vast majority of the levy revenue was raised above the £12.500 _ levy revenue was raised above the £12,500 level, so it isjust a few hundred — £12,500 level, so it isjust a few hundred million pounds, 600 million from memory, that was raised below, and that's— from memory, that was raised below, and that's essentially brought the offset _ and that's essentially brought the offset by— and that's essentially brought the offset by a slight increase in the forecast — offset by a slight increase in the forecast revenues from the levy in general _ forecast revenues from the levy in general so— forecast revenues from the levy in general. so in general there isn't a massive _ general. so in general there isn't a massive change. but even if there was there's— massive change. but even if there was there's not a penny less going to be _ was there's not a penny less going to be health and social care system. in to be health and social care system. in what _ to be health and social care system. in what way— to be health and social care system. in what way is it hypothecated if the budget is already set? it is hypothecated _ the budget is already set? it is hypothecated and then we set a budget— hypothecated and then we set a budget based on that but i don't think— budget based on that but i don't think it — budget based on that but i don't think it would be right for the nhs social— think it would be right for the nhs social care — think it would be right for the nhs social care budgets to be cut in the middle _ social care budgets to be cut in the middle of— social care budgets to be cut in the middle of a — social care budgets to be cut in the middle of a period if for whatever reason _ middle of a period if for whatever reason the — middle of a period if for whatever reason the revenue level came in lower— reason the revenue level came in lower but— reason the revenue level came in lower but over time it is a hypothecated revenue stream buffer public— hypothecated revenue stream buffer public policy and planning purposes it is right _ public policy and planning purposes it is right you have periods that it is said _ it is right you have periods that it is said and — it is right you have periods that it is said and they can be adjusted at the next _ is said and they can be adjusted at the next spending review cycle. the

aim of the the next spending review cycle. the: aim of the spring statement the next spending review cycle. ti9 aim of the spring statement is to help people with the cost of living crisis and if you have a certain amount of money to do that with you can either cut energy costs to reduce that, or increase household disposable income by cutting taxes or giving rebates on council tax, or energy bills. why have you decided to strike the balance where you are? do you think it is better to help people have increased disposable or household incomes or increase don't reduce energy bills? the implication is you may encourage people to burn more energy. there are different ways to do it. i more energy. there are different ways to do it— ways to do it. i think it is right we have a _ ways to do it. i think it is right we have a targeted _ ways to do it. i think it is right we have a targeted response. | we have a targeted response. hypothermia... we have a targeted response. hypothermia. . ._ we have a targeted response. h othermia... ,, . . hypothermia... there is one specific factor causing _ hypothermia... there is one specific factor causing the _ hypothermia... there is one specific factor causing the bulk _ hypothermia... there is one specific factor causing the bulk of _ hypothermia... there is one specific factor causing the bulk of the - factor causing the bulk of the increase _ factor causing the bulk of the increase in people's costs so i think— increase in people's costs so i think it's _ increase in people's costs so i think it's probably reasonable there is a clear— think it's probably reasonable there is a clear policy response to that. arguably. — is a clear policy response to that. arguably, you could do it in different— arguably, you could do it in different ways. i think having a

direct— different ways. i think having a direct response to that is sensible and we _ direct response to that is sensible and we have set out our way to do that. _ and we have set out our way to do that. £9 _ and we have set out our way to do that, £9 billion, which will help lots of— that, £9 billion, which will help lots of people with about £350, half the increase, and then more generally— the increase, and then more generally to help with the pressures, we have cut fuel duty and make _ pressures, we have cut fuel duty and make sure _ pressures, we have cut fuel duty and make sure we cut the tax on working people _ make sure we cut the tax on working people is— make sure we cut the tax on working --eole. . make sure we cut the tax on working eo - le. . . make sure we cut the tax on working --eole. , ., make sure we cut the tax on working neale, , ., make sure we cut the tax on working --eole. . . : people. is there a risk if you cut enert people. is there a risk if you cut energy costs — people. is there a risk if you cut energy costs and _ people. is there a risk if you cut energy costs and the _ people. is there a risk if you cut energy costs and the vat i people. is there a risk if you cut energy costs and the vat on i people. is there a risk if you cut| energy costs and the vat on fuel people. is there a risk if you cut - energy costs and the vat on fuel as well, that actually demand will be higher than it otherwise would be and that will lead to energy prices being higher? we and that will lead to energy prices being higher?— and that will lead to energy prices bein. hiiher? . ., ., ., i, , being higher? we had some analysis on the fuel duty _ being higher? we had some analysis on the fuel duty side, _ being higher? we had some analysis on the fuel duty side, they _ being higher? we had some analysis on the fuel duty side, they broadly i on the fuel duty side, they broadly washed _ on the fuel duty side, they broadly washed because of the increase in wholesale — washed because of the increase in wholesale fuel prices so i don't think_ wholesale fuel prices so i don't think there was going to be a significant increase there. and on energy— significant increase there. and on energy bills, in the short term, there _ energy bills, in the short term, there is— energy bills, in the short term, there is a — energy bills, in the short term, there is a degree to which people don't _ there is a degree to which people don't have — there is a degree to which people don't have an enormous amount of flexibility — don't have an enormous amount of flexibility. there is uppishly some flexibility— flexibility. there is uppishly some flexibility and people can adjust their consumption a bit, but the big savings _ their consumption a bit, but the big savings come from installing things like energy efficiency measures in your home — like energy efficiency measures in your home which can save quite

considerable amounts over time, £300 a year. _ considerable amounts over time, £300 a year. but _ considerable amounts overtime, £300 a year. but in_ considerable amounts over time, £300 a year, but in the short term it is probably— a year, but in the short term it is probably felt there isn't a huge amount— probably felt there isn't a huge amount you can do about your immediate energy bill, other than making _ immediate energy bill, other than making some short term adjustments in how— making some short term adjustments in how much you need to also the weather— in how much you need to also the weather which is outside of all of our control. weather which is outside of all of our control-— our control. that's all my questions. _ our control. that's all my questions. alison. - our control. that's all my questions. alison. thank| our control. that's all my - questions. alison. thank you, our control. that's all my _ questions. alison. thank you, chair. movinu questions. alison. thank you, chair. movin: on questions. alison. thank you, chair. moving on to _ questions. alison. thank you, chair. moving on to energy _ questions. alison. thank you, chair. moving on to energy bills, _ moving on to energy bills, chancellor, for many people up—and—down the country there is no option really to put solar panels on their houses. they can barely afford to heat their homes and keep the lights on as it is. so could you tell me exactly how your heat now pay later scheme will work for people on prepayment metres? let me take both things, — people on prepayment metres? let me take both things, actually, _ people on prepayment metres? let me take both things, actually, alison. - take both things, actually, alison. a full_ take both things, actually, alison. a full prepayment metres, about 60% of them _ a full prepayment metres, about 60% of them from memory we can do

through— of them from memory we can do through direct debit and it works automatically, so they will get the benefit _ automatically, so they will get the benefit automatically. and for the remainder— benefit automatically. and for the remainder there is benefit automatically. and for the remainderthere is a range benefit automatically. and for the remainder there is a range of different— remainder there is a range of different things that we can do. one is by providing what i think is called — is by providing what i think is called a _ is by providing what i think is called a smart access code provided to a number of retailers which they would _ to a number of retailers which they would go _ to a number of retailers which they would go to use to get their top up, or in the _ would go to use to get their top up, or in the extremists we can do direct— or in the extremists we can do direct checks, or vouchers to their home _ direct checks, or vouchers to their home. these are the same things we used when _ home. these are the same things we used when this was last done in 2011. _ used when this was last done in 2011, from _ used when this was last done in 2011, from memory, and something we put a lot— 2011, from memory, and something we put a lot of— 2011, from memory, and something we put a lot of thought into and beis are working with energy supplies to make _ are working with energy supplies to make sure — are working with energy supplies to make sure everybody can benefit from it. in make sure everybody can benefit from it in terms _ make sure everybody can benefit from it. in terms of measures, lots of people _ it. in terms of measures, lots of people cannot support solar panels, although— people cannot support solar panels, although the vat measure we have put in place _ although the vat measure we have put in place will— although the vat measure we have put in place will help, for a lot of people — in place will help, for a lot of people that will not be suitable. but we — people that will not be suitable. but we are spending lots of money to help upgrade their homes. there are two ways— help upgrade their homes. there are two ways we do that, one is through the two ways we do that, one is through lhe energy— two ways we do that, one is through the energy bill system, the energy company— the energy bill system, the energy company obligation, which funds through— company obligation, which funds

through our bill is about £1 billion a year— through our bill is about £1 billion a year which upgrades, from memory, 300,000 _ a year which upgrades, from memory, 300,000 homes a year. and again, those _ 300,000 homes a year. and again, those are _ 300,000 homes a year. and again, those are particularly people in fuel poverty, exactly the people you talked _ fuel poverty, exactly the people you talked about, so that's one thing we do through— talked about, so that's one thing we do through the bill system. the other— do through the bill system. the other thing with government spending, part of the recent government spending is going up, is we are _ government spending is going up, is we are spending about £3 billion over this — we are spending about £3 billion over this parliament to upgrade the energy— over this parliament to upgrade the energy efficiency of about 500,000 homes _ energy efficiency of about 500,000 homes. again, those will disproportionately be people in social— disproportionately be people in social housing or fuel poverty. there — social housing or fuel poverty. there is — social housing or fuel poverty. there is grants of up to 10,000 or £25000 — there is grants of up to 10,000 or £25000 at— there is grants of up to 10,000 or £25,000 at no cost to the tenant delivering — £25,000 at no cost to the tenant delivering bill savings an average of about— delivering bill savings an average of about £290 up to £300 so that's how we _ of about £290 up to £300 so that's how we are — of about £290 up to £300 so that's how we are helping those people improve — how we are helping those people improve the energy efficiency of their— improve the energy efficiency of their homes.— improve the energy efficiency of their homes. scotland is ahead of encland in their homes. scotland is ahead of england in terms _ their homes. scotland is ahead of england in terms of— their homes. scotland is ahead of england in terms of energy - england in terms of energy efficiency measures so i don't need to hear particularly much about that. but i think you have confused two things, people on direct debit and people on prepayment metres, thatis and people on prepayment metres, that is two different sets of

people. could you explain to me how somebody on prepayment metre will repay this £200? it's 40% of people who already have remotelv _ it's 40% of people who already have remotely accessible smart metres so the smoothing credit will automatically apply to them and then for the _ automatically apply to them and then for the remainder it's the special action— for the remainder it's the special action message or the other methods and we _ action message or the other methods and we have been through that and are comfortable it can be delivered because _ are comfortable it can be delivered because it — are comfortable it can be delivered because it will be applied automatically because even though they have _ automatically because even though they have prepayment metres in the art remotely accessible so it can be applied _ art remotely accessible so it can be applied to — art remotely accessible so it can be applied to those 40% and for the other— applied to those 40% and for the other 60% you have to go through one of these _ other 60% you have to go through one of these other measures, either actual— of these other measures, either actual messages or sms messages to their phone or in extremist checks in the _ their phone or in extremist checks in the post — their phone or in extremist checks in the post-— their phone or in extremist checks in the ost. , ., ., ., in the post. some people who are on re aid in the post. some people who are on prepaid metres _ in the post. some people who are on prepaid metres are _ in the post. some people who are on prepaid metres are on _ in the post. some people who are on prepaid metres are on those - in the post. some people who are on

prepaid metres are on those metres| prepaid metres are on those metres because they were unable to keep up with their bills and are paying back bills at a higher rate than people on direct debits. will that money go to top up their bills and allow them to top up their bills and allow them to pay for energy, or will it go on to pay for energy, or will it go on to their bills and allow them to pay for energy or will it go on to that doubt? ., , ., ., doubt? that is one thing that the department _ doubt? that is one thing that the department is — doubt? that is one thing that the department is working _ doubt? that is one thing that the department is working through . doubt? that is one thing that the | department is working through at doubt? that is one thing that the - department is working through at the moment— department is working through at the moment with citizens groups and energy— moment with citizens groups and energy companies, i can get back to you lrut— energy companies, i can get back to you but that — energy companies, i can get back to you but that is one of the things they— you but that is one of the things they are — you but that is one of the things they are going through the implementation of.- they are going through the implementation of. they are going through the imlementation of. ~ ., , implementation of. when will that be done? it is a — implementation of. when will that be done? it is a baize _ implementation of. when will that be done? it is a baize led _ implementation of. when will that be done? it is a baize led process. - implementation of. when will that be done? it is a baize led process. it- done? it is a baize led process. it would be useful— done? it is a baize led process. it would be useful to _ done? it is a baize led process. it would be useful to know- done? it is a baize led process. it would be useful to know how - done? it is a baize led process. itj would be useful to know how that works. ., , ., ., ., , , would be useful to know how that works. ., ., ., , , , works. the operational side is being done by the — works. the operational side is being done by the department _ works. the operational side is being done by the department for - works. the operational side is being l done by the department for business. the credit— done by the department for business. the credit for supposed to be applied — the credit for supposed to be applied in— the credit for supposed to be applied in october— the credit for supposed to be applied in october and - the credit for supposed to be applied in october and there i the credit for supposed to be i applied in october and there is a statutory— applied in october and there is a statutory consultation _ applied in october and there is a statutory consultation period - applied in october and there is a . statutory consultation period which from memory— statutory consultation period which from memory i_ statutory consultation period which from memory i want— statutory consultation period which from memory i want to _ statutory consultation period which from memory i want to say - statutory consultation period which from memory i want to say takes l from memory i want to say takes between — from memory i want to say takes between eight _ from memory i want to say takes between eight and _ from memory i want to say takes between eight and 12 _ from memory i want to say takes between eight and 12 weeks - from memory i want to say takes between eight and 12 weeks so . from memory i want to say takes between eight and 12 weeks so itj between eight and 12 weeks so it would _ between eight and 12 weeks so it would be — between eight and 12 weeks so it would be in — between eight and 12 weeks so it would be in the _ between eight and 12 weeks so it would be in the summer- between eight and 12 weeks so it would be in the summer that - between eight and 12 weeks so it would be in the summer that the exact— would be in the summer that the exact delivery— would be in the summer that the exact delivery mechanism - would be in the summer that the exact delivery mechanism would | would be in the summer that the . exact delivery mechanism would be confirmed _ exact delivery mechanism would be confirmed but — exact delivery mechanism would be

confirmed but we _ exact delivery mechanism would be confirmed but we can _ exact delivery mechanism would be confirmed but we can write - exact delivery mechanism would be confirmed but we can write to - exact delivery mechanism would be l confirmed but we can write to you to confirm _ confirmed but we can write to you to confirm that — confirmed but we can write to you to confirm that. infill— confirmed but we can write to you to confirm that-— confirm that. will it go against dirt or will— confirm that. will it go against dirt or will it — confirm that. will it go against dirt or will it be _ confirm that. will it go against dirt or will it be an _ confirm that. will it go against dirt or will it be an additional. dirt or will it be an additional credit? ., , ., ., , credit? that is one of the things the are credit? that is one of the things they are working _ credit? that is one of the things they are working on _ credit? that is one of the things they are working on and - credit? that is one of the things they are working on and there i credit? that is one of the things| they are working on and there in conversations right now.- they are working on and there in conversations right now. there is no 0 -t out to conversations right now. there is no opt out to this _ conversations right now. there is no opt out to this £200 _ conversations right now. there is no opt out to this £200 he'd _ conversations right now. there is no opt out to this £200 he'd now- conversations right now. there is no opt out to this £200 he'd now pay . opt out to this £200 he'd now pay later scheme, opt out to this £200 he'd now pay laterscheme, is opt out to this £200 he'd now pay later scheme, is there? opt out to this £200 he'd now pay laterscheme, is there? trio. so later scheme, is there? no. so --eole later scheme, is there? no. so people who _ later scheme, is there? no. so people who were already on fuel debt are being asked to take on another £200 of debt. brute are being asked to take on another £200 of debt-— £200 of debt. we will leave that appearance _ £200 of debt. we will leave that appearance by — £200 of debt. we will leave that appearance by the _ £200 of debt. we will leave that appearance by the chancellor - £200 of debt. we will leave that appearance by the chancellor in | appearance by the chancellor in front of the treasury select committee to go to the house of commons for an urgent question is being asked on p&o ferries. behaviour exhibited toward their workers over the last week. as a government we will not stand by and allow hard—working did a good bridge staff to be treated in such a manner. this morning at my right honourable friend the transport secretary wrote to the chief executive of p&o asking him to pause

and reconsider and offer his workers theirjobs back on their previous terms, conditions and wages, should they want them. we will return to this house to announce measures that will ensure the outcomes p&o berries are seeking to achieve to this disastrous move to pay less than the minimum wage cannot be seen through. as a result they will have no reason left not to reconsider this move. as i said to the select committee last week, as soon as this package of measures has been finalised we intend to return to this house so that members can rightly scrutinise them. in the meantime we are continuing to review the contract that p&0 continuing to review the contract that p&o ferries with the government and insolvency servants are investigating the actions of people have built who were admitted to breaking the laws before —— of peter

hebblethwaite, who admitted to breaking the law before two committees last week. the end out will not be allowed to get away with their actions and i hope the whole house will support our efforts to do justice. i house will support our efforts to do 'ustice. ., ~ ~ , house will support our efforts to do 'ustice. . ,, ~ , ., justice. i thank the minister for that response. _ justice. i thank the minister for that response. the _ justice. i thank the minister for that response. the chief- justice. i thank the minister for i that response. the chief executive of p80 _ that response. the chief executive of p80 ferries made a mockery of the rule of— of p80 ferries made a mockery of the rule of law— of p80 ferries made a mockery of the rule of law and seven of their eight ferries— rule of law and seven of their eight ferries are — rule of law and seven of their eight ferries are now stuck in port and on saturday— ferries are now stuck in port and on saturday the only passenger ship in europe _ saturday the only passenger ship in europe to _ saturday the only passenger ship in europe to be prevented from sailing over safety— europe to be prevented from sailing over safety concerns was seized. p&o must face _ over safety concerns was seized. p&o must face the most serious consequences. i note the minister and secretary of state feel the same way and _ and secretary of state feel the same way and i_ and secretary of state feel the same way and i appreciate their contact with the _ way and i appreciate their contact with the opposition and trade unions but every— with the opposition and trade unions but every available tool must be used _ but every available tool must be used to — but every available tool must be used to force p&o to reinstate workers — used to force p&o to reinstate workers on the previous terms and conditions. — workers on the previous terms and conditions, so can the minister provide — conditions, so can the minister provide urgent clarity? the prime

minister— provide urgent clarity? the prime minister said on wednesday, we are taking _ minister said on wednesday, we are taking legal action against the company concerned, so has the secretary — company concerned, so has the secretary of state given his direction to prosecute? if not, why not? _ direction to prosecute? if not, why not? second, given the chief executive _ not? second, given the chief executive has showed no respect for the local— executive has showed no respect for the local or— executive has showed no respect for the local or will he seek his removal— the local or will he seek his removal under the directors disqualification act and all those who authorised this unlawful action? third. _ who authorised this unlawful action? third. the _ who authorised this unlawful action? third, the transport secretary said he will— third, the transport secretary said he will review contracts but livelihoods are on the line will he suspend — livelihoods are on the line will he suspend all contracts and licenses of p80 _ suspend all contracts and licenses of p80 and dp world today and why is dp world _ of p80 and dp world today and why is dp world is _ of p80 and dp world today and why is dp world is still listed as a member of the _ dp world is still listed as a member of the government's trade advisory group? _ of the government's trade advisory group? time is running out. the deadline — group? time is running out. the deadline set by p&o for this thursday for workers to agree severance amounts to extortion and has no _ severance amounts to extortion and has no legal basis. what powers does the government having to extend that

unlawful— the government having to extend that unlawful deadline? these workers, as he said. _ unlawful deadline? these workers, as he said. it _ unlawful deadline? these workers, as he said, it must be reinstated on the same — he said, it must be reinstated on the same terms as before. many are paid above _ the same terms as before. many are paid above the minimum wage so will the minister work with unions and ferry— the minister work with unions and ferry companies to agree a binding framework— ferry companies to agree a binding framework that would prevent a race to the _ framework that would prevent a race to the bottom to the lowest international standards christmas we must send _ international standards christmas we must send a clear message that rogue employers _ must send a clear message that rogue employers cannot get away with trampling the laws of this country. it's time _ trampling the laws of this country. it's time to— trampling the laws of this country. it's time to throw the book at p80 and save _ it's time to throw the book at p80 and save this loyal workforce. the honourable _ and save this loyal workforce. tie: honourable lady is quite right that p&0 honourable lady is quite right that p&o must face consequences for their actions. we are looking at every tool available to the government, we are doing that as fast as possible and look to bring forward measures which i apologise i cannot go into in detail at the moment, some are complex matters but we will speak to members of the house and the unions as we put this together. the secretary of state for transport has

made clear his views, i did when i came to the house when the announcement was made in front of the transport select committee, the secretary of state's letter has been clear of what view we take of the actions p&o have taken and we will be acting upon that. there are a number of other matters, on the contract we continue to review any that may exist, we continue to take action we can on issues like trade advisory. i hope she will pardon me because we will come forward with measures. as i said we would when we were in front of the select committee and we will work with the unions and with all others as we put together this package.— together this package. natalie elhick. if together this package. natalie elphick- if i — together this package. natalie elphick. if i may _ together this package. natalie elphick. ifi may i _ together this package. natalie elphick. ifi may i would - together this package. natalie elphick. if i may i would like i together this package. natalie| elphick. if i may i would like to thank the _ elphick. if i may i would like to thank the secretary _ elphick. if i may i would like to thank the secretary of - elphick. if i may i would like to thank the secretary of state i elphick. if i may i would like to | thank the secretary of state for working — thank the secretary of state for working so closely with me and with others _ working so closely with me and with others since this disgraceful

decision— others since this disgraceful decision by p&o. does my honourable friend _ decision by p&o. does my honourable friend i_ decision by p&o. does my honourable friend i agree the minimum wage proposal— friend i agree the minimum wage proposal is a flaw and not a ceiling that would — proposal is a flaw and not a ceiling that would put ferry workers in the same _ that would put ferry workers in the same position as others in this country? — same position as others in this country? it _ same position as others in this country? it defeats the p80 agency foreign _ country? it defeats the p80 agency foreign workers model so they should reinstate _ foreign workers model so they should reinstate the dover workforce under current _ reinstate the dover workforce under current terms now and does he agree the government's measures coming forward _ the government's measures coming forward this week will support very workers _ forward this week will support very workers and safeguard the dover calais _ workers and safeguard the dover calais route in the future? may workers and safeguard the dover calais route in the future?- calais route in the future? may i first aid calais route in the future? may i first paid tribute _ calais route in the future? may i first paid tribute to _ calais route in the future? may i first paid tribute to my - calais route in the future? i—i first paid tribute to my honourable friend for her fearless championing of her constituents? there is no—one who speaks out with more persuasion, with more force and more passionate than she does for the people of dover and i pay tribute to herfor that. she asked whether the national minimum wage is a floor ceiling, there is a package we are considering and we will explain what thatis considering and we will explain what that is in due course and i hope the house will welcome that when it

comes. ., house will welcome that when it comes. . . ., house will welcome that when it comes. . ., ~ , comes. can i come at the minister, thanked secretary _ comes. can i come at the minister, thanked secretary of _ comes. can i come at the minister, thanked secretary of state - comes. can i come at the minister, thanked secretary of state for - thanked secretary of state for showing — thanked secretary of state for showing the content of the latter he and his— showing the content of the latter he and his colleagues have sent tp endowed — and his colleagues have sent tp endowed today? these actions have been reprehensible but i have to ask, _ been reprehensible but i have to ask, where was this progressive zeal to protect _ ask, where was this progressive zeal to protectjobs when british ask, where was this progressive zeal to protect jobs when british airways threatened to far and wee staff? if action— threatened to far and wee staff? if action had — threatened to far and wee staff? if action had been taken at that point we might— action had been taken at that point we might not be enough position today~ _ we might not be enough position today it — we might not be enough position today it is — we might not be enough position today. it is better when a sinner pants _ today. it is better when a sinner pants and — today. it is better when a sinner pants and the government is on the i’ili'it pants and the government is on the right side _ pants and the government is on the right side which i welcome. actions have had _ right side which i welcome. actions have had an — right side which i welcome. actions have had an impact across the country — have had an impact across the country. he said he cannot give details — country. he said he cannot give details not _ country. he said he cannot give details not but can i reiterate that the deadline is on thursday and this base breaks for recess on thursday so this— base breaks for recess on thursday so this is— base breaks for recess on thursday so this is of— base breaks for recess on thursday so this is of the most urgent nature

and we _ so this is of the most urgent nature and we need details as soon as possible. — and we need details as soon as possible, and the chairs of the transport _ possible, and the chairs of the transport select committee has written — transport select committee has written to the secretary of state to date with _ written to the secretary of state to date with a number of points but stating _ date with a number of points but stating the government should prosecute the end and remove its licence _ prosecute the end and remove its licence to — prosecute the end and remove its licence to operate in the uk. what consideration is he giving to this action— consideration is he giving to this action to — consideration is he giving to this action to shout p&o it cannot operate — action to shout p&o it cannot operate where it is not abide by the law? |_ operate where it is not abide by the law? ., ~ operate where it is not abide by the law? . ,, ., ., ., , law? i thank the right honourable aentleman law? i thank the right honourable gentleman for— law? i thank the right honourable gentleman for his _ law? i thank the right honourable gentleman for his question. - law? i thank the right honourable gentleman for his question. he i law? i thank the right honourable gentleman for his question. he is right, this is something that unites the house, whatever our politics we are all disgusted by the way p&o behaved and he is quite right, i am very aware that the deadline is pressing and that is why the government is working so hard on this. as soon as we are able to do so we aim to update the house on the market of measures we are looking to take. that will include... the honourable gentleman reminds me i

have a couple of questions unanswered but i will consider his point around licenses, we will consider that. point around licenses, we will considerthat. i point around licenses, we will consider that. i note some letters are being written, i have not seen theirs but i will be keen to see the suggestion, as i said in front of the transport select committee i am keen to work with the committee and unions on any constructive suggestions, and they have been constructive suggestions from all sides of the house.— constructive suggestions from all sides of the house. stennett line is one of the largest _ sides of the house. stennett line is one of the largest employers - sides of the house. stennett line is one of the largest employers in - sides of the house. stennett line is one of the largest employers in my| one of the largest employers in my constituency — one of the largest employers in my constituency and _ one of the largest employers in my constituency and holyhead - one of the largest employers in my constituency and holyhead is - one of the largest employers in my constituency and holyhead is the l constituency and holyhead is the second _ constituency and holyhead is the second busiest— constituency and holyhead is the second busiest road _ constituency and holyhead is the second busiest road port- constituency and holyhead is the second busiest road port in- constituency and holyhead is the second busiest road port in the i constituency and holyhead is the i second busiest road port in the uk. the news _ second busiest road port in the uk. the news last— second busiest road port in the uk. the news last week _ second busiest road port in the uk. the news last week regarding - second busiest road port in the uk. the news last week regarding p - second busiest road port in the uk. | the news last week regarding p and out was _ the news last week regarding p and out was felt — the news last week regarding p and out was felt with _ the news last week regarding p and out was felt with anger _ the news last week regarding p and out was felt with anger and - the news last week regarding p and out was felt with anger and shock. i j out was felt with anger and shock. i have spoken — out was felt with anger and shock. i have spoken with _ out was felt with anger and shock. i have spoken with stena _ out was felt with anger and shock. i have spoken with stena seafarers . out was felt with anger and shock. i l have spoken with stena seafarers who were concerned — have spoken with stena seafarers who were concerned about _ have spoken with stena seafarers who were concerned about their— have spoken with stena seafarers who were concerned about theirjobs. - were concerned about theirjobs. will the — were concerned about theirjobs. will the minister— were concerned about theirjobs. will the minister confirm - were concerned about theirjobs. will the minister confirm to - were concerned about theirjobs. will the minister confirm to my. will the minister confirm to my constituents _ will the minister confirm to my constituents that— will the minister confirm to my constituents that he _ will the minister confirm to my- constituents that he undersecretary of state _ constituents that he undersecretary of state are — constituents that he undersecretary of state are doing _

constituents that he undersecretary of state are doing all _ constituents that he undersecretary of state are doing all they— constituents that he undersecretary of state are doing all they can - constituents that he undersecretary of state are doing all they can to . of state are doing all they can to ensure _ of state are doing all they can to ensure this — of state are doing all they can to ensure this despicable _ of state are doing all they can to ensure this despicable callous i ensure this despicable callous behaviour— ensure this despicable callous behaviour never— ensure this despicable callous behaviour never occurs - ensure this despicable callousj behaviour never occurs again? ensure this despicable callous - behaviour never occurs again? the honourable — behaviour never occurs again? honourable lady also speaks with power and passion for her constituents and i pay tribute to herfor constituents and i pay tribute to her for that. constituents and i pay tribute to herfor that. the constituents and i pay tribute to her for that. the distress felt by seafarers of all companies is palpable over the last week, clearly there was at p&o are in our hearts and minds but equally there is worried about their livelihood from other operators, precisely what we are taking the time we are is because we want to provide reassurance to others no matter where they work for who they are employed by that their livelihoods will be secure. i employed by that their livelihoods will be secure.— will be secure. i appreciate the minister's _ will be secure. i appreciate the minister's comment _ will be secure. i appreciate the minister's comment in - will be secure. i appreciate the minister's comment in relation j will be secure. i appreciate the i minister's comment in relation to will be secure. i appreciate the - minister's comment in relation to dp world _ minister's comment in relation to dp world and _ minister's comment in relation to dp world and stena being on the advisory— world and stena being on the advisory panel and he looked at that being _ advisory panel and he looked at that being part _ advisory panel and he looked at that being part of a package —— and p80 ferries _ being part of a package —— and p80 ferries being part of the advisory panel~ _ ferries being part of the advisory panel. will that take dp world of

the government's advisory body? that would _ the government's advisory body? that would send _ the government's advisory body? that would send a message to that company that their— would send a message to that company that their behaviour is unacceptable so will— that their behaviour is unacceptable so will the — that their behaviour is unacceptable so will the minister sent that letter— so will the minister sent that letter out now and not wait for the package? — letter out now and not wait for the package? i— letter out now and not wait for the hackae? ., ,., ., , letter out now and not wait for the ackaae? . ., , ,, ., package? i apologise, i know he would like _ package? i apologise, i know he would like me _ package? i apologise, i know he would like me to _ package? i apologise, i know he would like me to say _ package? i apologise, i know he would like me to say a - package? i apologise, i know he would like me to say a number i package? i apologise, i know he| would like me to say a number of things and a message will be sent, i hope you will forgive me, i wanted to be a package we announce to the house a it can scrutinise rather than announcing things piecemeal so we will come to the house and explain all those things. i we will come to the house and explain all those things. i would like to thank— explain all those things. i would like to thank my _ explain all those things. i would like to thank my right _ explain all those things. i would l like to thank my right honourable friend _ like to thank my right honourable friend for— like to thank my right honourable friend for the _ like to thank my right honourable friend for the strength _ like to thank my right honourable friend for the strength of - like to thank my right honourable friend for the strength of the - friend for the strength of the government's— friend for the strength of the government's response - friend for the strength of the government's response to i friend for the strength of the i government's response to the friend for the strength of the - government's response to the moral bankruptcy— government's response to the moral bankruptcy of — government's response to the moral bankruptcy of p80 _ government's response to the moral bankruptcy of p80 ferries. - government's response to the moral bankruptcy of p80 ferries. i- government's response to the morall bankruptcy of p80 ferries. i welcome the commitment _ bankruptcy of p80 ferries. i welcome the commitment to _ bankruptcy of p80 ferries. i welcome the commitment to protect _ bankruptcy of p80 ferries. i welcome j the commitment to protect seafarers. does my— the commitment to protect seafarers. does my right — the commitment to protect seafarers. does my right honourable _ the commitment to protect seafarers. does my right honourable friend - does my right honourable friend agree _ does my right honourable friend agree every— does my right honourable friend agree every step _ does my right honourable friend agree every step needs - does my right honourable friend agree every step needs to - does my right honourable friend agree every step needs to be i does my right honourable friend i agree every step needs to be taken to ensure _ agree every step needs to be taken to ensure that _ agree every step needs to be taken to ensure that seafarers _ agree every step needs to be taken to ensure that seafarers are - to ensure that seafarers are properly— to ensure that seafarers are properly protected - to ensure that seafarers are properly protected into i to ensure that seafarers are properly protected into the| to ensure that seafarers are - properly protected into the future course _ properly protected into the future course moral— properly protected into the future course moral bankruptcy - properly protected into the future course moral bankruptcy is - properly protected into the future course moral bankruptcy is the i course moral bankruptcy is the point, — course moral bankruptcy is the point, he — course moral bankruptcy is the point. he puts— course moral bankruptcy is the point, he puts his _ course moral bankruptcy is the point, he puts his finger- course moral bankruptcy is the point, he puts his finger on- course moral bankruptcy is the point, he puts his finger on it. | course moral bankruptcy is the i point, he puts his finger on it. we are point, he puts his finger on it. are taking every step. we will

point, he puts his finger on it.“ are taking every step. we will come forward with a package, we want to get this right and we are keen to make sure people are protected. brute make sure people are protected. we note the unions met with p&o ferries on friday— note the unions met with p&o ferries on friday and perhaps unsurprisingly the company were treating those unions _ the company were treating those unions with complete contempt. i think— unions with complete contempt. i think the — unions with complete contempt. i think the reason is this. the penny for p80 _ think the reason is this. the penny for p&o ferries hasn't yet dropped that legislation will come into force — that legislation will come into force very soon which will remove their— force very soon which will remove their incentive to exploit foreign agency— their incentive to exploit foreign agency workers at the expense of british— agency workers at the expense of british seafarers, so would the minister— british seafarers, so would the minister pick up the phone to p80 ferries _ minister pick up the phone to p80 ferries today and ask the chief executive _ ferries today and ask the chief executive to extend the clock for accepting — executive to extend the clock for accepting what are essentially illegal— accepting what are essentially illegal offers? it's not redundancy, it's illegat — illegal offers? it's not redundancy, it's illeaal. .,

illegal offers? it's not redundancy, it's illeaal. . , ., illegal offers? it's not redundancy, it'silleual. ., , . _ it's illegal. can i start by thanking _ it's illegal. can i start by thanking the _ it's illegal. can i start by thanking the honourable it's illegal. can i start by _ thanking the honourable gentleman for his input, he has been constructive and i'm gratefulfor his input into this issue which i'm taking very seriously. the secretary of state has done more than that and has written in no uncertain terms in public and asking them to do precisely that. i'm not surprised he now treated the unions with contempt because that is the way we have seen them behave across this whole matter and i would urge them to treat unions and their workers with respect. t unions and their workers with resect. . ., ., unions and their workers with resect. .., ., ., unions and their workers with resect. ., ., ., , ., respect. i come from a family of seafarers _ respect. i come from a family of seafarers and _ respect. i come from a family of seafarers and the _ respect. i come from a family of seafarers and the behaviour i respect. i come from a family of seafarers and the behaviour of l respect. i come from a family of i seafarers and the behaviour of p80 has been _ seafarers and the behaviour of p80 has been arrogant, _ seafarers and the behaviour of p80 has been arrogant, disgusting - seafarers and the behaviour of p80 has been arrogant, disgusting and i has been arrogant, disgusting and unacceptable _ has been arrogant, disgusting and unacceptable. i'm _ has been arrogant, disgusting and unacceptable. i'm grateful- has been arrogant, disgusting and unacceptable. i'm grateful to- has been arrogant, disgusting and unacceptable. i'm grateful to the. unacceptable. i'm grateful to the minister— unacceptable. i'm grateful to the minister for— unacceptable. i'm grateful to the minister for the _ unacceptable. i'm grateful to the minister for the strong _ unacceptable. i'm grateful to the minister for the strong action. i unacceptable. i'm grateful to the i minister for the strong action. will they sent — minister for the strong action. will they sent a — minister for the strong action. will they sent a strong _ minister for the strong action. will they sent a strong message - minister for the strong action. will they sent a strong message to i minister for the strong action. will they sent a strong message to the j they sent a strong message to the executive — they sent a strong message to the executive of— they sent a strong message to the executive of p80, _ they sent a strong message to the executive of p80, saying - they sent a strong message to the executive of p80, saying he - they sent a strong message to the i executive of p80, saying he should resign _ executive of p80, saying he should resign for— executive of p80, saying he should resign for his — executive of p80, saying he should resign for his behaviour? _ resign for his behaviour? absolutely, _ resign for his behaviour? absolutely, the - resign for his behaviour? | absolutely, the secretary resign for his behaviour? i absolutely, the secretary of resign for his behaviour? - absolutely, the secretary of state said his position is untenable and i

agree. said his position is untenable and i auree. ., said his position is untenable and i a. ree. ., ., , said his position is untenable and i auree. . . , ., ., agree. can i raise again the fact that the shipping _ agree. can i raise again the fact that the shipping companies i agree. can i raise again the fact i that the shipping companies have received — that the shipping companies have received over £2 billion worth of tonnage — received over £2 billion worth of tonnage tax concessions. p&o have been _ tonnage tax concessions. p&o have been a _ tonnage tax concessions. p&o have been a major gainer from that of tonnage — been a major gainer from that of tonnage tax. could we have assurance from the _ tonnage tax. could we have assurance from the government that now tonnage tax relief— from the government that now tonnage tax relief is _ from the government that now tonnage tax relief is being paid now to p80 and that— tax relief is being paid now to p80 and that if— tax relief is being paid now to p80 and that if necessary we should seek to receive _ and that if necessary we should seek to receive back some of the tonnage tax concessions that they gained as a result— tax concessions that they gained as a result of— tax concessions that they gained as a result of a — tax concessions that they gained as a result of a commitment to protect and increase the number of british seafaring — and increase the number of british seafaring jobs. and increase the number of british seafaringjobs. | and increase the number of british seafaring jobs-— seafaring 'obs. i can confirm that we will seafaring jobs. i can confirm that we will be _ seafaring jobs. i can confirm that we will be considering _ seafaring jobs. i can confirm that we will be considering any i seafaring jobs. i can confirm that| we will be considering any actions we will be considering any actions we will be considering any actions we will take. we will announce these as part of the package. i’m we will take. we will announce these as part of the package.— as part of the package. i'm grateful for what the _ as part of the package. i'm grateful for what the secretary _ as part of the package. i'm grateful for what the secretary of _ as part of the package. i'm grateful for what the secretary of state i as part of the package. i'm grateful for what the secretary of state has | for what the secretary of state has done _ for what the secretary of state has done and _ for what the secretary of state has done and for — for what the secretary of state has done and for the _ for what the secretary of state has done and for the minister. - for what the secretary of state has done and for the minister. i- for what the secretary of state has done and for the minister. i don't. done and for the minister. i don't understand — done and for the minister. idon't understand how— done and for the minister. i don't understand how a _ done and for the minister. i don't understand how a minimum i done and for the minister. i don'tj understand how a minimum wage done and for the minister. i don't. understand how a minimum wage by definition— understand how a minimum wage by definition is— understand how a minimum wage by definition is a — understand how a minimum wage by definition is a minimum _ understand how a minimum wage by definition is a minimum wage - understand how a minimum wage by definition is a minimum wage but i definition is a minimum wage but cannot— definition is a minimum wage but cannot be — definition is a minimum wage but

cannot be paid _ definition is a minimum wage but cannot be paid to— definition is a minimum wage but cannot be paid to people. - definition is a minimum wage butl cannot be paid to people. perhaps the minister— cannot be paid to people. perhaps the minister could _ cannot be paid to people. perhaps the minister could explain- cannot be paid to people. perhaps the minister could explain that i cannot be paid to people. perhaps| the minister could explain that but i take _ the minister could explain that but i take what— the minister could explain that but i take what the _ the minister could explain that but i take what the opposition - the minister could explain that but i take what the opposition said, i the minister could explain that but| i take what the opposition said, we need _ i take what the opposition said, we need in _ i take what the opposition said, we need in this— i take what the opposition said, we need in this house _ i take what the opposition said, we need in this house to _ i take what the opposition said, we need in this house to hear- i take what the opposition said, we need in this house to hear what i i take what the opposition said, we| need in this house to hear what the measures— need in this house to hear what the measures are _ need in this house to hear what the measures are i_ need in this house to hear what the measures are. i understand - need in this house to hear what the measures are. i understand why- need in this house to hear what the| measures are. i understand why the minister— measures are. i understand why the minister wants— measures are. i understand why the minister wants to _ measures are. i understand why the minister wants to make _ measures are. i understand why the minister wants to make a _ measures are. i understand why the minister wants to make a package i measures are. i understand why the| minister wants to make a package to ensure _ minister wants to make a package to ensure we _ minister wants to make a package to ensure we have _ minister wants to make a package to ensure we have an— minister wants to make a package to ensure we have an oral— minister wants to make a package to ensure we have an oral statement i ensure we have an oral statement before _ ensure we have an oral statement before thursday _ ensure we have an oral statement before thursday and _ ensure we have an oral statement before thursday and before - ensure we have an oral statement before thursday and before we i ensure we have an oral statement before thursday and before we goj before thursday and before we go into recess — before thursday and before we go into recess charisma _ before thursday and before we go into recess charisma the - before thursday and before we go . into recess charisma the honourable gentleman _ into recess charisma the honourable gentleman is— into recess charisma the honourable gentleman is right _ into recess charisma the honourable gentleman is right and _ into recess charisma the honourable gentleman is right and i— into recess charisma the honourable gentleman is right and i agree - into recess charisma the honourable gentleman is right and i agree withl gentleman is right and i agree with him, _ gentleman is right and i agree with him. the _ gentleman is right and i agree with him. the house _ gentleman is right and i agree with him, the house needs— gentleman is right and i agree with him, the house needs to _ gentleman is right and i agree with him, the house needs to know- gentleman is right and i agree withl him, the house needs to know what the measures— him, the house needs to know what the measures are _ him, the house needs to know what the measures are and _ him, the house needs to know what the measures are and we _ him, the house needs to know what the measures are and we intend i him, the house needs to know what the measures are and we intend to| the measures are and we intend to return— the measures are and we intend to return to _ the measures are and we intend to return to the — the measures are and we intend to return to the house _ the measures are and we intend to return to the house as _ the measures are and we intend to return to the house as soon - the measures are and we intend to return to the house as soon as i return to the house as soon as possible — return to the house as soon as possible to — return to the house as soon as possible to make _ return to the house as soon as possible to make that - return to the house as soon as i possible to make that statement. i possible to make that statement. 1 also possible to make that statement. also welcome the messages on possible to make that statement]- also welcome the messages on safety, on consultation and on wages that the government is sending out, but speaking _ the government is sending out, but speaking to— the government is sending out, but speaking to workers in my pantry were _ speaking to workers in my pantry were affected in lauren, the clear thing _ were affected in lauren, the clear thing they— were affected in lauren, the clear thing they want to see is what sanctions _ thing they want to see is what sanctions will be placed on the company— sanctions will be placed on the company to make sure they are bike because _ company to make sure they are bike because as — company to make sure they are bike because as we have seen last week, they still— because as we have seen last week, they still seem to think breaking they still seem to think breaking the law— they still seem to think breaking the law is— they still seem to think breaking

the law is ok. the they still seem to think breaking the law is 0k-— the law is ok. the honourable gentleman — the law is ok. the honourable gentleman puts _ the law is ok. the honourable gentleman puts his _ the law is ok. the honourable gentleman puts his finger i the law is ok. the honourable gentleman puts his finger on | the law is ok. the honourable i gentleman puts his finger on the centre of the issue, thanking breaking laws is ok, the extraordinary display resort last week when the ceo admitted breaking the law and said he would do it again. we will make clear that is not acceptable, we will announce later in the wake how that would be and i hope he will pardon me if we delay until then.— and i hope he will pardon me if we delay until then. speaking to people inside rebel. — delay until then. speaking to people inside rebel, p— delay until then. speaking to people inside rebel, p endow's _ delay until then. speaking to people inside rebel, p endow's reputation i inside rebel, p endow's reputation is in tatters~ — inside rebel, p endow's reputation is in tatters. many people say they will never — is in tatters. many people say they will never use the company again. may i _ will never use the company again. may i thank the minister for the secretary— may i thank the minister for the secretary of state's strong letter and does — secretary of state's strong letter and does he agree with me that the chief executive officer of p80 ferries — chief executive officer of p80 ferries should strongly consider his position? _ ferries should strongly consider his position? i— ferries should strongly consider his osition? ., ferries should strongly consider his position?- just _ ferries should strongly consider his position? i do. just following up on my question. _ position? i do. just following up on my question. i _ position? t u just following up on my question, i wondered, the minister— my question, i wondered, the minister said— my question, i wondered, the minister said there _ my question, i wondered, the minister said there will - my question, i wondered, the minister said there will be i my question, i wondered, the minister said there will be a i minister said there will be a package _ minister said there will be a package of— minister said there will be a package of measures - minister said there will be a package of measures he i minister said there will be a | package of measures he will minister said there will be a _ package of measures he will announce

later this _ package of measures he will announce later this week— package of measures he will announce later this week but _ package of measures he will announce later this week but will— package of measures he will announce later this week but will one _ package of measures he will announce later this week but will one of - later this week but will one of those — later this week but will one of those measures— later this week but will one of those measures be _ later this week but will one of those measures be the - later this week but will one of i those measures be the removal of later this week but will one of - those measures be the removal of the chief executive — those measures be the removal of the chief executive as _ those measures be the removal of the chief executive as a _ those measures be the removal of the chief executive as a director— those measures be the removal of the chief executive as a director under- chief executive as a director under the companies _ chief executive as a director under the companies directors— the companies directors disqualification- the companies directors disqualification act- the companies directors. disqualification act 1986? the companies directors- disqualification act 1986? can he say whether— disqualification act 1986? can he say whether that _ disqualification act 1986? can he say whether that is _ disqualification act 1986? can he say whether that is under - disqualification act 1986? can he say whether that is under active i say whether that is under active consideration— say whether that is under active consideration quarter— say whether that is under active consideration quarter i'm - say whether that is under active consideration quarter i'm now. say whether that is under active consideration quarter i'm now a j consideration quarter i'm now a number— consideration quarter i'm now a number of— consideration quarter i'm now a number of members— consideration quarter i'm now a number of members will- consideration quarter i'm now a number of members will wish i consideration quarter i'm now a i number of members will wish me to start talking — number of members will wish me to start talking about _ number of members will wish me to start talking about individual- start talking about individual measures— start talking about individual measures and _ start talking about individual measures and i— start talking about individual measures and i hope - start talking about individual measures and i hope the i start talking about individual- measures and i hope the honourable lady will— measures and i hope the honourable lady will forgive _ measures and i hope the honourable lady will forgive me, _ measures and i hope the honourable lady will forgive me, we _ measures and i hope the honourable lady will forgive me, we will- measures and i hope the honourable lady will forgive me, we will come i lady will forgive me, we will come to the _ lady will forgive me, we will come to the house _ lady will forgive me, we will come to the house and _ lady will forgive me, we will come to the house and explained - lady will forgive me, we will come to the house and explained a i lady will forgive me, we will come i to the house and explained a package of measures— to the house and explained a package of measures but— to the house and explained a package of measures but we _ to the house and explained a package of measures but we are _ to the house and explained a package of measures but we are clear- to the house and explained a package of measures but we are clear about i of measures but we are clear about the position— of measures but we are clear about the position of— of measures but we are clear about the position of that _ of measures but we are clear about the position of that individual- of measures but we are clear about the position of that individual that i the position of that individual that he ought — the position of that individual that he ought to— the position of that individual that he ought to go _ the position of that individual that he ought to go-— the position of that individual that he ought to go. experienced crews are familiar _ he ought to go. experienced crews are familiar with _ he ought to go. experienced crews are familiar with safety _ are familiar with safety requirements. can my honourable friend _ requirements. can my honourable friend ensure the house that before any vessel— friend ensure the house that before any vessel leaves port or any ferry leaves _ any vessel leaves port or any ferry leaves port — any vessel leaves port or any ferry leaves port now, a full safety inspection will take place before it leaves? _ inspection will take place before it leaves? , ., ~ �* inspection will take place before it leaves? , . ~ ~ ., leaves? yes, and the mca have detained one _ leaves? yes, and the mca have detained one vessel _ leaves? yes, and the mca have detained one vessel to - leaves? yes, and the mca have detained one vessel to ensure i leaves? yes, and the mca have i detained one vessel to ensure that doesn't take place and i have total

confidence that they will make sure vessels are safe before the sale. tt vessels are safe before the sale. it has to be the case that the results of these _ has to be the case that the results of these inspections _ has to be the case that the results of these inspections will— has to be the case that the results of these inspections will be - of these inspections will be published _ of these inspections will be published in _ of these inspections will be published in full— of these inspections will be published in full so - of these inspections will be published in full so the i of these inspections will be . published in full so the public of these inspections will be - published in full so the public can have _ published in full so the public can have confidence _ published in full so the public can have confidence in— published in full so the public can have confidence in what - published in full so the public can have confidence in what is- published in full so the public can have confidence in what is beingl have confidence in what is being done _ have confidence in what is being done that— have confidence in what is being done that as _ have confidence in what is being done that as well _ have confidence in what is being done that as well as _ have confidence in what is being done that as well as being - have confidence in what is being done that as well as being in i have confidence in what is being i done that as well as being in breach of their— done that as well as being in breach of their duty— done that as well as being in breach of their duty to— done that as well as being in breach of their duty to inform _ done that as well as being in breach of their duty to inform the - of their duty to inform the secretary— of their duty to inform the secretary of— of their duty to inform the secretary of state - of their duty to inform the secretary of state of - of their duty to inform the secretary of state of their| secretary of state of their intentions, _ secretary of state of their intentions, it— secretary of state of their intentions, it appears i secretary of state of theiri intentions, it appears p&o secretary of state of their- intentions, it appears p&o are also intentions, it appears p&o are also in breach— intentions, it appears p&o are also in breach of— intentions, it appears p&o are also in breach of their— intentions, it appears p&o are also in breach of their duty— intentions, it appears p&o are also in breach of their duty to _ intentions, it appears p&o are also in breach of their duty to inform i in breach of their duty to inform fla- in breach of their duty to inform flag states _ in breach of their duty to inform flag states is— in breach of their duty to inform flag states. is it _ in breach of their duty to inform flag states. is it the _ in breach of their duty to inform . flag states. is it the government's intention— flag states. is it the government's intention to — flag states. is it the government's intention to pursue _ flag states. is it the government's intention to pursue that _ flag states. is it the government's intention to pursue that charismal flag states. is it the government's. intention to pursue that charisma we are considering — intention to pursue that charisma we are considering any— intention to pursue that charisma we are considering any options - intention to pursue that charisma we are considering any options that i intention to pursue that charisma wej are considering any options that may be relevant — are considering any options that may be relevant -- — are considering any options that may be relevant. ., are considering any options that may be relevant-— be relevant. -- we are considering any options- _ be relevant. -- we are considering any options. one _ be relevant. -- we are considering any options. one of _ be relevant. -- we are considering any options. one of the _ be relevant. -- we are considering any options. one of the most i any options. one of the most damaging _ any options. one of the most damaging concessions - any options. one of the most damaging concessions made | any options. one of the most. damaging concessions made last any options. one of the most - damaging concessions made last week was that_ damaging concessions made last week was that it _ damaging concessions made last week was that it was cheaper for p80 to dispense _ was that it was cheaper for p80 to dispense with their consultation obligations because it was more cost—effective to pay 800 protective awards _ cost—effective to pay 800 protective awards and then move on to agency workers' _ awards and then move on to agency workers' rights of £5 50 per our

below— workers' rights of £5 50 per our below the — workers' rights of £5 50 per our below the national minimum wage. they are _ below the national minimum wage. they are paying british national minimum — they are paying british national minimum wage up to the limit of british— minimum wage up to the limit of british territorial waters and then moving _ british territorial waters and then moving on— british territorial waters and then moving on to rights below £2 an noun _ moving on to rights below £2 an noun we — moving on to rights below £2 an hour. we do not have this in the airline _ hour. we do not have this in the airline industry where they go between _ airline industry where they go betweenjurisdictions airline industry where they go between jurisdictions so could he look carefully at the territorial tin1it— look carefully at the territorial limit of — look carefully at the territorial limit of the national minimum wage obligations. | limit of the national minimum wage obli . ations. , limit of the national minimum wage obliuations. , ., ., obligations. i will, it is one of the issues — obligations. i will, it is one of the issues we _ obligations. i will, it is one of the issues we are _ obligations. i will, it is one of the issues we are discussing, j obligations. i will, it is one of- the issues we are discussing, she is right to draw attention to it and i thank herfor her right to draw attention to it and i thank her for her expertise. i right to draw attention to it and i thank herfor her expertise. i was thank her for her expertise. i was in liverpool— thank her for her expertise. i was in liverpool on _ thank her for her expertise. i was in liverpool on saturday - thank her for her expertise. i was in liverpool on saturday and - thank her for her expertise. i was in liverpool on saturday and met sacked _ in liverpool on saturday and met sacked he — in liverpool on saturday and met sacked he and _ in liverpool on saturday and met sacked he and out— in liverpool on saturday and met sacked he and out seafarers - in liverpool on saturday and met| sacked he and out seafarers from liverpool— sacked he and out seafarers from liverpool and _ sacked he and out seafarers from liverpool and from _ sacked he and out seafarers from liverpool and from larne - sacked he and out seafarers from liverpool and from larne who - sacked he and out seafarers from | liverpool and from larne who had come _ liverpool and from larne who had come across — liverpool and from larne who had come across using _ liverpool and from larne who had come across using a _ liverpool and from larne who had come across using a different - come across using a different carrier— come across using a different carrier to— come across using a different carrier to show— come across using a different carrier to show solidarity. - come across using a different. carrier to show solidarity. they told _ carrier to show solidarity. they told me — carrier to show solidarity. they told me about _ carrier to show solidarity. they told me about the _ carrier to show solidarity. they told me about the mca - carrier to show solidarity. they. told me about the mca inspection carrier to show solidarity. they- told me about the mca inspection in larne _ told me about the mca inspection in larne which— told me about the mca inspection in larne which kept— told me about the mca inspection in larne which kept the _ told me about the mca inspection in larne which kept the vessel - told me about the mca inspection in larne which kept the vessel in - told me about the mca inspection in larne which kept the vessel in port i larne which kept the vessel in port but i _ larne which kept the vessel in port but i will— larne which kept the vessel in port but i will pass _ larne which kept the vessel in port but i will pass back _ larne which kept the vessel in port but i will pass back their— larne which kept the vessel in port but i will pass back their message, they want— but i will pass back their message, they want their— but i will pass back their message, they want theirjobs _ but i will pass back their message,

they want theirjobs back— but i will pass back their message, they want theirjobs back on - but i will pass back their message, they want theirjobs back on their i they want theirjobs back on their existing _ they want theirjobs back on their existing terms _ they want theirjobs back on their existing terms and _ they want theirjobs back on their existing terms and conditions - they want theirjobs back on their existing terms and conditions but they don't— existing terms and conditions but they don't just _ existing terms and conditions but they don't just want _ existing terms and conditions but they don't just want a _ existing terms and conditions but they don't just want a review- existing terms and conditions but| they don't just want a review over licences. — they don't just want a review over licences. they— they don't just want a review over licences, they want _ they don't just want a review over licences, they want proper- they don't just want a review over licences, they want proper action| licences, they want proper action because — licences, they want proper action because they _ licences, they want proper action because they want _ licences, they want proper action because they want the _ licences, they want proper action . because they want the government licences, they want proper action - because they want the government to show that— because they want the government to show that they — because they want the government to show that they really _ because they want the government to show that they really are _ because they want the government to show that they really are on _ because they want the government to show that they really are on their - show that they really are on their side now— show that they really are on their side now and _ show that they really are on their side now and not _ show that they really are on their side now and not to _ show that they really are on their side now and not to leave - show that they really are on their side now and not to leave any. show that they really are on their i side now and not to leave any doubt about— side now and not to leave any doubt about whether — side now and not to leave any doubt about whether they _ side now and not to leave any doubt about whether they are _ side now and not to leave any doubt about whether they are on - side now and not to leave any doubt about whether they are on the - side now and not to leave any doubt about whether they are on the side i about whether they are on the side of billionaires _ about whether they are on the side of billionaires from _ about whether they are on the side of billionaires from dubai. - about whether they are on the side of billionaires from dubai. [- about whether they are on the side of billionaires from dubai. i can - about whether they are on the side of billionaires from dubai.- of billionaires from dubai. i can be clear that we _ of billionaires from dubai. i can be clear that we are _ of billionaires from dubai. i can be clear that we are on _ of billionaires from dubai. i can be clear that we are on the _ of billionaires from dubai. i can be clear that we are on the side - of billionaires from dubai. i can be clear that we are on the side of. of billionaires from dubai. i can be| clear that we are on the side of the workers. we will explain what we will do in the house later this week. ., ., week. may i congratulate the minister on _ week. may i congratulate the minister on the _ week. may i congratulate the minister on the robust - week. may i congratulate the i minister on the robust approach week. may i congratulate the - minister on the robust approach the government are taking to this matter but many— government are taking to this matter but many small business owners and managers _ but many small business owners and managers work long and hard to get personal— managers work long and hard to get personal matters right and to do the film personal matters right and to do the right thing _ personal matters right and to do the right thing and to comply with employment law. with the minister consider— employment law. with the minister consider what signal it would send to them _ consider what signal it would send to them if— consider what signal it would send to them if p80 ferries get away with wilfully— to them if p80 ferries get away with wilfully ignoring the law?— wilfully ignoring the law? that's a sianal we wilfully ignoring the law? that's a signal we cannot _ wilfully ignoring the law? that's a signal we cannot have, _ wilfully ignoring the law? that's a signal we cannot have, we -

wilfully ignoring the law? that's a signal we cannot have, we cannotj signal we cannot have, we cannot have any company wilfully ignoring the law. we want to make sure every company knows they must do the right thing. the company knows they must do the right thin. ,., company knows they must do the right thin. , ., thing. the government response to the mass sucking _ thing. the government response to the mass sucking up _ thing. the government response to the mass sucking up p80 _ thing. the government response to the mass sucking up p80 workers l thing. the government response to i the mass sucking up p80 workers has been shamefuk — the mass sucking up p80 workers has been shameful. investors _ the mass sucking up p80 workers has been shameful. investors failed - the mass sucking up p80 workers has been shameful. investors failed to - been shameful. investors failed to step in— been shameful. investors failed to step in save — been shameful. investors failed to step in save jobs. _ been shameful. investors failed to step in save jobs, they— been shameful. investors failed to step in save jobs, they failed - been shameful. investors failed to step in save jobs, they failed to i step in save jobs, they failed to support— step in save jobs, they failed to support labour— step in save jobs, they failed to support labour efforts - step in save jobs, they failed to support labour efforts to - step in save jobs, they failed to| support labour efforts to outlaw step in save jobs, they failed to - support labour efforts to outlaw far and we _ support labour efforts to outlaw far and we hark— support labour efforts to outlaw far and we hark and _ support labour efforts to outlaw far and we hark and are _ support labour efforts to outlaw far and we hark and are not _ support labour efforts to outlaw far and we hark and are not seeking i support labour efforts to outlaw fari and we hark and are not seeking the disqualification— and we hark and are not seeking the disqualification of— and we hark and are not seeking the disqualification of the _ and we hark and are not seeking the disqualification of the chief- disqualification of the chief executive _ disqualification of the chief executive from _ disqualification of the chief executive from holding i disqualification of the chief- executive from holding company directorships. _ executive from holding company directorships. many— executive from holding company directorships. many of— executive from holding company directorships. many of my - directorships. many of my constituents _ directorships. many of my constituents are _ directorships. many of my constituents are afraid i directorships. many of my i constituents are afraid their directorships. many of my - constituents are afraid theirjobs coutd _ constituents are afraid theirjobs could also— constituents are afraid theirjobs could also be _ constituents are afraid theirjobs could also be under— constituents are afraid theirjobs could also be under threat. i constituents are afraid theirjobs could also be under threat. willl constituents are afraid theirjobs i could also be under threat. will the secretary— could also be under threat. will the secretary of — could also be under threat. will the secretary of state _ could also be under threat. will the secretary of state commit - could also be under threat. will the secretary of state commit to - could also be under threat. will the secretary of state commit to bring i secretary of state commit to bring forward _ secretary of state commit to bring forward legislation _ secretary of state commit to bring forward legislation that _ secretary of state commit to bringl forward legislation that guarantees the strongest — forward legislation that guarantees the strongest employment - forward legislation that guarantees i the strongest employment protections are available _ the strongest employment protections are available to — the strongest employment protections are available to everyone _ the strongest employment protections are available to everyone working i the strongest employment protections are available to everyone working in i are available to everyone working in the uk _ are available to everyone working in the uk maritime _ are available to everyone working in the uk maritime industry— are available to everyone working in the uk maritime industry so- are available to everyone working in the uk maritime industry so no—one is ever— the uk maritime industry so no—one is ever treated — the uk maritime industry so no—one is ever treated as _ the uk maritime industry so no—one is ever treated as contentedly - the uk maritime industry so no—one is ever treated as contentedly as i is ever treated as contentedly as the 800 — is ever treated as contentedly as the 800 p80 _ is ever treated as contentedly as the 800 p80 workers _ is ever treated as contentedly as the 800 p80 workers were i is ever treated as contentedly as i the 800 p80 workers were causing i don't agree — the 800 p80 workers were causing i don't agree with _ the 800 p80 workers were causing i don't agree with the _ the 800 p80 workers were causing i don't agree with the honourable i don't agree with the honourable gentleman's— don't agree with the honourable gentleman's way— don't agree with the honourable gentleman's way of— don't agree with the honourable gentleman's way of describing l don't agree with the honourable . gentleman's way of describing the governnrent— gentleman's way of describing the government approach. _ gentleman's way of describing the government approach. i— gentleman's way of describing the

government approach.— gentleman's way of describing the government approach. i don't think we could be — government approach. i don't think we could be any — government approach. i don't think we could be any more _ government approach. i don't think we could be any more robust - government approach. i don't think we could be any more robust but i government approach. i don't think. we could be any more robust but the overall thrust of his point that workers should be protected, i agree with and we will describe to the house how we will do that. i with and we will describe to the house how we will do that. i welcome the minister's — house how we will do that. i welcome the minister's statement _ house how we will do that. i welcome the minister's statement but - house how we will do that. i welcome the minister's statement but two i house how we will do that. i welcome the minister's statement but two of l the minister's statement but two of my constituents were laid off by e-mail— my constituents were laid off by e—mail last week and are understandably upset they do not know _ understandably upset they do not know money is coming into their household. can he assure me that the measures— household. can he assure me that the measures he — household. can he assure me that the measures he will introduce, and i understand — measures he will introduce, and i understand he cannot go into detail, but can— understand he cannot go into detail, but can he _ understand he cannot go into detail, but can he make sure that at the heart _ but can he make sure that at the heart of — but can he make sure that at the heart of that package or workers' rights _ heart of that package or workers' rights and — heart of that package or workers' rights and that in future no company can take _ rights and that in future no company can take these actions? that rights and that in future no company can take these actions?— can take these actions? that is what we aim to achieve. _ can take these actions? that is what we aim to achieve. i _ can take these actions? that is what we aim to achieve. i was _ can take these actions? that is what we aim to achieve. i was heartened | we aim to achieve. i was heartened when the minister _ we aim to achieve. i was heartened when the minister in _ we aim to achieve. i was heartened when the minister in opening - we aim to achieve. i was heartened when the minister in opening said l we aim to achieve. i was heartened l when the minister in opening said he will not _ when the minister in opening said he will not stand — when the minister in opening said he will not stand by— when the minister in opening said he will not stand by and _ when the minister in opening said he will not stand by and allow— when the minister in opening said he will not stand by and allow workers l will not stand by and allow workers to be _ will not stand by and allow workers to be treated — will not stand by and allow workers to be treated in _ will not stand by and allow workers to be treated in such _ will not stand by and allow workers to be treated in such a _ will not stand by and allow workers to be treated in such a manner- will not stand by and allow workers to be treated in such a manner but| to be treated in such a manner but p&0's _ to be treated in such a manner but p&0's territory _ to be treated in such a manner but p80's territory and _ to be treated in such a manner but p80's territory and illegal- to be treated in such a manner but| p80's territory and illegal deadline of the _ p80's territory and illegal deadline of the 31st — p80's territory and illegal deadline of the 31st of — p80's territory and illegal deadline of the 31st of march _ p80's territory and illegal deadline of the 31st of march for _ p80's territory and illegal deadline of the 31st of march for all - of the 31st of march for all sacked ratings _ of the 31st of march for all sacked ratings to— of the 31st of march for all sacked ratings to sign _ of the 31st of march for all sacked ratings to sign a _ of the 31st of march for all sacked ratings to sign a severance -

of the 31st of march for all sacked l ratings to sign a severance package which _ ratings to sign a severance package which effectively— ratings to sign a severance package which effectively buys _ ratings to sign a severance package which effectively buys their- ratings to sign a severance package which effectively buys theirjobs i which effectively buys theirjobs but also — which effectively buys theirjobs but also seeks _ which effectively buys theirjobs but also seeks to _ which effectively buys theirjobs but also seeks to muzzle - which effectively buys theirjobs but also seeks to muzzle them, j which effectively buys theirjobs i but also seeks to muzzle them, that is this— but also seeks to muzzle them, that is this thursday _ but also seeks to muzzle them, that is this thursday but _ but also seeks to muzzle them, that is this thursday but so _ but also seeks to muzzle them, that is this thursday but so when - but also seeks to muzzle them, that is this thursday but so when the i is this thursday but so when the minister— is this thursday but so when the minister says _ is this thursday but so when the minister says he _ is this thursday but so when the minister says he will— is this thursday but so when the minister says he will bring i is this thursday but so when the minister says he will bring a i minister says he will bring a package _ minister says he will bring a package to _ minister says he will bring a package to this _ minister says he will bring a package to this house i minister says he will bring a package to this house as i minister says he will bring a i package to this house as soon as possible. — package to this house as soon as possible. as _ package to this house as soon as possible, as soon _ package to this house as soon as possible, as soon as _ package to this house as soon as possible, as soon as possible i package to this house as soon as i possible, as soon as possible must be before _ possible, as soon as possible must be before thursday. _ possible, as soon as possible must be before thursday. the _ possible, as soon as possible must be before thursday. the honourable gentleman's — be before thursday. the honourable gentleman's point, _ be before thursday. the honourable gentleman's point, it _ be before thursday. the honourable gentleman's point, it is _ be before thursday. the honourable gentleman's point, it is not - be before thursday. the honourable gentleman's point, it is not on - be before thursday. the honourable gentleman's point, it is not on howl gentleman's point, it is not on how these people have been treated, it's unacceptable. this is complex of art a number of things we have to go through to get this right, but in the meantime the latter the secretary of state has written makes the demand he asks. i secretary of state has written makes the demand he asks.— the demand he asks. i would like to thank the secretary _ the demand he asks. i would like to thank the secretary of _ the demand he asks. i would like to thank the secretary of state - the demand he asks. i would like to thank the secretary of state and i thank the secretary of state and department for the robust way in which _ department for the robust way in which they have taken on p80 over their disgraceful actions but can they confirm to me, first at all the contracts— they confirm to me, first at all the contracts and relationships p and i have _ contracts and relationships p and i have with — contracts and relationships p and i have with the government will be under— have with the government will be under review, secondly that they will block — under review, secondly that they will block the outcome p80 are after which _ will block the outcome p80 are after which is _ will block the outcome p80 are after which is trying to pay workers less

than the _ which is trying to pay workers less than the minimum wage, and can he agree— than the minimum wage, and can he agree that _ than the minimum wage, and can he agree that the ceo should either resign— agree that the ceo should either resign or— agree that the ceo should either resign or be sacked immediately? he resign or be sacked immediately? hrs. makes resign or be sacked immediately? makes a resign or be sacked immediately? he: makes a number of excellent points, we will consider those as part of the package but a trustee is seeking to achieve is the same as the government.— to achieve is the same as the government. , ., , ., government. the problem we have here is we have had — government. the problem we have here is we have had fire _ government. the problem we have here is we have had fire and _ government. the problem we have here is we have had fire and rehire _ government. the problem we have here is we have had fire and rehire with - is we have had fire and rehire with british— is we have had fire and rehire with british gas. — is we have had fire and rehire with british gas, we _ is we have had fire and rehire with british gas, we have _ is we have had fire and rehire with british gas, we have had - is we have had fire and rehire with british gas, we have had it- is we have had fire and rehire with british gas, we have had it with i british gas, we have had it with british— british gas, we have had it with british airways _ british gas, we have had it with british airways and _ british gas, we have had it with british airways and i _ british gas, we have had it with british airways and i rememberj british gas, we have had it with i british airways and i remember warm words _ british airways and i remember warm words from _ british airways and i remember warm words from ministers _ british airways and i remember warm words from ministers just _ british airways and i remember warm words from ministers just a _ british airways and i remember warm words from ministers just a few - words from ministers just a few months — words from ministers just a few months ago _ words from ministers just a few months ago but _ words from ministers just a few months ago but now— words from ministers just a few months ago but now changes i words from ministers just a fewj months ago but now changes to words from ministers just a few - months ago but now changes to the outcome _ months ago but now changes to the outcome and — months ago but now changes to the outcome and in _ months ago but now changes to the outcome and in the _ months ago but now changes to the outcome and in the words - months ago but now changes to the outcome and in the words of - months ago but now changes to the outcome and in the words of my- outcome and in the words of my fellow— outcome and in the words of my fellow liverpudlian _ outcome and in the words of my fellow liverpudlian frank - outcome and in the words of my| fellow liverpudlian frank cottrell boyce, _ fellow liverpudlian frank cottrell boyce, tory _ fellow liverpudlian frank cottrell boyce, tory mps _ fellow liverpudlian frank cottrell boyce, tory mps protesting - fellow liverpudlian frank cottrell boyce, tory mps protesting the i boyce, tory mps protesting the behaviour— boyce, tory mps protesting the behaviour of _ boyce, tory mps protesting the behaviour of p80 _ boyce, tory mps protesting the behaviour of p80 bosses - boyce, tory mps protesting the behaviour of p80 bosses is - boyce, tory mps protesting the behaviour of p80 bosses is like boyce, tory mps protesting the - behaviour of p80 bosses is like your neighbourhood — behaviour of p80 bosses is like your neighbourhood arsonist _ behaviour of p80 bosses is like your neighbourhood arsonist offering - behaviour of p80 bosses is like your neighbourhood arsonist offering you| neighbourhood arsonist offering you a flask _ neighbourhood arsonist offering you a flask of _ neighbourhood arsonist offering you a flask of tea — neighbourhood arsonist offering you a flask of tea over _ neighbourhood arsonist offering you a flask of tea over the _ neighbourhood arsonist offering you a flask of tea over the smoking - a flask of tea over the smoking ruins _ a flask of tea over the smoking ruins of— a flask of tea over the smoking ruins of your— a flask of tea over the smoking ruins of your house. _ a flask of tea over the smoking ruins of your house. i- a flask of tea over the smoking ruins of your house. i wonder. a flask of tea over the smoking| ruins of your house. i wonder if ministers — ruins of your house. i wonder if ministers now— ruins of your house. i wonder if ministers now will— ruins of your house. i wonder if ministers now will look- ruins of your house. i wonder if ministers now will look at - ruins of your house. i wonder if. ministers now will look at whether they could — ministers now will look at whether they could commit _ ministers now will look at whether

they could commit to _ ministers now will look at whether they could commit to securing - ministers now will look at whether they could commit to securing a l they could commit to securing a cottectivety _ they could commit to securing a collectively bargained _ they could commit to securing a collectively bargained fair - they could commit to securing a collectively bargained fair pay . collectively bargained fair pay agreement— collectively bargained fair pay agreement for— collectively bargained fair pay agreement for the _ collectively bargained fair pay agreement for the entire - collectively bargained fair pay . agreement for the entire sector? collectively bargained fair pay - agreement for the entire sector? we will agreement for the entire sector? will consider all the suggestions that have been made by honourable members across the house and i thank them for it and will announce in due course of the measures we intend to take. mr course of the measures we intend to take. ~ ,,, . ,, . course of the measures we intend to take. ~ . ,. , take. mr speaker, what discussions have the minister— take. mr speaker, what discussions have the minister had _ take. mr speaker, what discussions have the minister had with - take. mr speaker, what discussions have the minister had with the - have the minister had with the scottish— have the minister had with the scottish and other devolved governments to discuss the impact of p80's _ governments to discuss the impact of p80's actions and what efforts has he made _ p80's actions and what efforts has he made with cabinet colleagues to end a _ he made with cabinet colleagues to end a despicable practice of fire and rehire? 35st end a despicable practice of fire and rehire?— and rehire? at a time like this conversations _ and rehire? at a time like this conversations take _ and rehire? at a time like this conversations take place - and rehire? at a time like this. conversations take place across government and across the devolved administrations to consider actions we can take together. i administrations to consider actions we can take together.— we can take together. i thank the minister for _ we can take together. i thank the minister for his _ we can take together. i thank the minister for his statement - we can take together. i thank the minister for his statement today, j we can take together. i thank the l minister for his statement today, i hope _ minister for his statement today, i hope it— minister for his statement today, i hope it brings _ minister for his statement today, i hope it brings forward _ minister for his statement today, i hope it brings forward legislation. hope it brings forward legislation quickty~ — hope it brings forward legislation quickly in — hope it brings forward legislation quickly. in that— hope it brings forward legislation quickly. in that will— hope it brings forward legislation quickly. in that will he _ hope it brings forward legislation quickly. in that will he also - hope it brings forward legislation quickly. in that will he also take | quickly. in that will he also take on board — quickly. in that will he also take on board the _ quickly. in that will he also take on board the scandal— quickly. in that will he also take on board the scandal of- quickly. in that will he also take on board the scandal of the - quickly. in that will he also take on board the scandal of the way| quickly. in that will he also take l on board the scandal of the way in which _ on board the scandal of the way in which seafarers— on board the scandal of the way in

which seafarers are _ on board the scandal of the way in which seafarers are treated - on board the scandal of the way in which seafarers are treated in - which seafarers are treated in international— which seafarers are treated in international waters - which seafarers are treated inj international waters generally course — international waters generally course on _ international waters generally course on low _ international waters generally course on low wages, - international waters generally course on low wages, poor. course on low wages, poor conditions, _ course on low wages, poor conditions, terrible - course on low wages, poor| conditions, terrible working arrangements _ conditions, terrible working arrangements which - conditions, terrible working arrangements which has . conditions, terrible working . arrangements which has been conditions, terrible working _ arrangements which has been exposed by the _ arrangements which has been exposed by the scandal— arrangements which has been exposed by the scandal at— arrangements which has been exposed by the scandal at p&0. _ arrangements which has been exposed by the scandal at p&0. we _ arrangements which has been exposed by the scandal at p&0. we need - arrangements which has been exposed by the scandal at p&0. we need to- by the scandal at p&0. we need to address— by the scandal at p&0. we need to address this — by the scandal at p&0. we need to address this issue _ by the scandal at p&0. we need to address this issue of— by the scandal at p&0. we need to address this issue of fairness - by the scandal at p&0. we need to address this issue of fairness and i address this issue of fairness and justice _ address this issue of fairness and justice for— address this issue of fairness and justice for all_ address this issue of fairness and justice for all seafarers _ address this issue of fairness and justice for all seafarers and - address this issue of fairness and justice for all seafarers and is - address this issue of fairness and justice for all seafarers and is a l justice for all seafarers and is a major— justice for all seafarers and is a major seafaring _ justice for all seafarers and is a major seafaring nation - justice for all seafarers and is a major seafaring nation we - justice for all seafarers and is a major seafaring nation we can i justice for all seafarers and is a - major seafaring nation we can take the lead _ major seafaring nation we can take the lead on — major seafaring nation we can take the lead on that. _ major seafaring nation we can take the lead on that. the _ major seafaring nation we can take the lead on that.— the lead on that. the country absolutely — the lead on that. the country absolutely is _ the lead on that. the country absolutely is a _ the lead on that. the country absolutely is a major - the lead on that. the country. absolutely is a major seafaring nation and has taken the lead, for example in the pandemic we were the first country to declare it seafarers as key workers, we took theissue seafarers as key workers, we took the issue of their rights to the international maritime organisation so i am keen we continue to take the lead and he puts his finger on pertinent issues.— lead and he puts his finger on pertinent issues. before being in parliament _ pertinent issues. before being in parliament i _ pertinent issues. before being in parliament i was _ pertinent issues. before being in parliament i was an _ pertinent issues. before being inj parliament i was an employment rights _ parliament i was an employment rights lawyer and have never seen such a _ rights lawyer and have never seen such a blatant disregard of the law. this government says it is wrong but it has— this government says it is wrong but it has been— this government says it is wrong but it has been allowed to happen under their watch. they failed to ban

foreign — their watch. they failed to ban foreign rehire or to extend national minimum _ foreign rehire or to extend national minimum wage to seafarers. if it wasn't _ minimum wage to seafarers. if it wasn't from a legal challenge brought— wasn't from a legal challenge brought we would still have fees for an employment tribunal. when will this government stand up for workers? _ u nfortu nately unfortunately the honourable lady is wrong in many of the points she makes. the minimum wage was extended to the vast majority of seafarers working on the uk continental shelf, it is the regulation from 20 tone tea, there is an issue we are seeking to address here and we are addressing it. —— 2020. shifter addressing it. -- 2020. after admitting _ addressing it. -- 2020. after admitting to _ addressing it. -- 2020. after admitting to the _ addressing it. -- 2020. after admitting to the select - addressing it. —— 2020. after admitting to the select committee that he _ admitting to the select committee that he had broken the law and would do so _ that he had broken the law and would do so again. — that he had broken the law and would do so again, the nation has concluded that peter hebblethwaite is not _ concluded that peter hebblethwaite is not a _ concluded that peter hebblethwaite is not a fit and proper person to be a director — is not a fit and proper person to be a director. notjust of p80 but of any company. when will the government also reach that conclusion and disqualify him? and

when _ conclusion and disqualify him? and when will— conclusion and disqualify him? and when will they seek to ensure that workers _ when will they seek to ensure that workers onshore are not treated with the same _ workers onshore are not treated with the same contempt that these seafaring workers have been treated with, seafaring workers have been treated with. and _ seafaring workers have been treated with, and make sure that people cannot— with, and make sure that people cannot be — with, and make sure that people cannot be fired in this way, whether they are _ cannot be fired in this way, whether they are working for weetabix, tesco, — they are working for weetabix, tesco, british airways, british gas, or any— tesco, british airways, british gas, or any of— tesco, british airways, british gas, or any of the — tesco, british airways, british gas, or any of the other companies that have _ or any of the other companies that have been— or any of the other companies that have been doing this over the past two years? — have been doing this over the past two years? so have been doing this over the past two ears? ., . , two years? so the government has reached the _ two years? so the government has reached the same _ two years? so the government has reached the same conclusion - two years? so the government has reached the same conclusion as i two years? so the government has| reached the same conclusion as the honourable gentleman with regards to peter hebblethwaite which is why the secretary of state has written to him in the terms he has today. it is matter for a court and him in the terms he has today. it is matterfor a court and not him in the terms he has today. it is matter for a court and not a government. we are looking to see what else we can do to protect workers in this sphere as i've explained and i will look forward to updating the house before the end of the week. ~ . . . , updating the house before the end of the week-— can - updating the house before the end of the week-— can i i the week. michael fabricant. can i thank my honourable _ the week. michael fabricant. can i thank my honourable friend - the week. michael fabricant. can i thank my honourable friend for. thank my honourable friend for taking such a robust stance on this issue but could i invite him, because there is some concern that

he makes it absolutely clear that the despicable action of p&o ferries is not connected in any way with p&o cruises which is a completely separate company owned by a separate organisation? because they are concerned that they may lose bookings as a consequence. mr; concerned that they may lose bookings as a consequence. my right honourable friend _ bookings as a consequence. my right honourable friend is _ bookings as a consequence. my right honourable friend is absolutely - honourable friend is absolutely right. there is no connection between p&o ferries and p&o cruises whatsoever, they are separate organisations, separately managed, no blame whatsoever for the actions of p80 no blame whatsoever for the actions of p&o ferries should be seen to attach to p&o cruises. of p80 ferries should be seen to attach to p80 cruises.— of p80 ferries should be seen to attach to p80 cruises. thank you, mr seaker. attach to p80 cruises. thank you, mr speaker- the — attach to p80 cruises. thank you, mr speaker. the chief _ attach to p80 cruises. thank you, mr speaker. the chief executive - attach to p80 cruises. thank you, mr speaker. the chief executive of - attach to p80 cruises. thank you, mr speaker. the chief executive of p&0| speaker. the chief executive of p&o came into this place where the laws of the lands are made and told us that he broke those laws, and did so in a premeditated way, then compound the situation by going on to then

show scant regard for safety measures on his ships which has resulted in them being impounded. so, knowing all that, doesn't the minister think that these do make this chief executive deserves to be summarily dismissed, and shouldn't he be making sure that that's done immediately, regardless of any package he is going to bring forward? i package he is going to bring forward? , . ., ., . , package he is going to bring forward? , . ., ., �*, forward? i share the honourable 's state of gentlemanshock - forward? i share the honourable 's state of gentlemanshock at - forward? i share the honourable 's state of gentlemanshock at the . state of gentlemanshock at the statement that was made by peter hebblethwaite in front of the select committee last week, i share that entirely, the secretary of state and i also share the view that his position is untenable and said to him he ought to go and i urge him to take that seriously on—board. thank take that seriously on-board. thank mr speaker- — take that seriously on-board. thank mr speaker- my _ take that seriously on-board. thank mr speaker. my honourable - take that seriously on—board. triafia; mr speaker. my honourable friend is absolutely right, these are not redundancies because the positions are not redundant, they still need proof to and the ships. but the fact is it is cheaper, quicker and easier to sack british workers as supposed to sack british workers as supposed to work as anywhere else in europe,

so when he brings, brings forward this package will we have a discussion with the rest of the government to say the time has come for proper employment rights the uk? i take on board entirely the point the honourable gentleman makes. the most important thing we have to do now is to make sure these workers are seeing their rights protected and others in a similar position to them and any lessons we have to draw in the wider sphere government will be taking note at all times, but it will be clearly receptive of me to speculate on what that might be. mr speculate on what that might be. m speaker, the minister has been given example after example of fire and rehire this afternoon. every member of this house, unless living on another planet, is acutely aware of all the examples in the last two or three years. at what point does the government going to say this is wrong and it should be legal? mr speaker, as the honourable gentleman knows this isn't a fire and rehire situation but we are absolutely clear that the way these workers have been treated is wrong, which is why i have said in uncertain terms

we are bring forward a package of measures and i will update the house before the end of the week. thank ou, mr before the end of the week. thank you. mr speaker- _ before the end of the week. thank you, mr speaker. can _ before the end of the week. thank you, mr speaker. can the - before the end of the week. thank you, mr speaker. can the ministerj you, mr speaker. can the minister confirmed if the government has received advice from the insolvency service, and if so can he confirm that p&0 service, and if so can he confirm that p&o simply by not notifying the flag states of these intended redundancies within the prescribed time limits means they would have committed an offence which could and should lead to unlimited fines being imposed, and if not, will the minister bring forward legislation to correct the position retrospectively and make that an unlimited fine happen? mr speaker, it wouldn't be normal for any - it wouldn't be normal for any minister to comment on legal advice that's given but i share the honourable lady 's concerns and it is why we have asked the insolvency service to investigate in these circumstances, undertaken for the suggestion she makes as i do from all honourable members, as to what that package should be.— that package should be. dockers in rotterdam refused _ that package should be. dockers in rotterdam refused to _ that package should be. dockers in rotterdam refused to load - that package should be. dockers in rotterdam refused to load freight. rotterdam refused to load freight onto a ferry in support of 800

unlawfully, illegally sacked p&o workers. does the minister support that action in support of saving those 800 jobs? and if so, why is it good enough for workers and trade unions in rotterdam but it is still illegal in this country to take solidarity action? mr illegal in this country to take solidarity action? illegal in this country to take solidari action? ~ .~ , solidarity action? mr speaker, this is a government _ solidarity action? mr speaker, this is a government that _ solidarity action? mr speaker, this is a government that is _ solidarity action? mr speaker, this is a government that is standing . solidarity action? mr speaker, this| is a government that is standing up for workers, we have been absolutely clear about our condemnation of the way the p&o workers have been treated in this case and we will take action which i will explain in due course. mr take action which i will explain in due course-— take action which i will explain in due course. mr speaker, the p80 ension due course. mr speaker, the p80 pension pot _ due course. mr speaker, the p80 pension not has — due course. mr speaker, the p80 pension pot has a _ due course. mr speaker, the p80 pension pot has a shortfall- due course. mr speaker, the p80 pension pot has a shortfall of- due course. mr speaker, the p80 pension pot has a shortfall of 147| pension pot has a shortfall of 147 million. p&o's parent company dp world has previously sponsored a golf tournament to the tune of £150 million. 50 does the minister agree with me that p&o's parent company should step in and pay up so that workers' pensions are secure for the future? will he add this to his

package that need sorting out, please? i package that need sorting out, lease? , , i, please? i entirely understand the honourable _ please? i entirely understand the honourable gentleman's - please? i entirely understand the honourable gentleman's and - please? i entirely understand the honourable gentleman's and son| please? i entirely understand the . honourable gentleman's and son and please? i entirely understand the - honourable gentleman's and son and i think that dp world and p&o should get together and talk to their workers and look after them, which they haven't so far. the workers and look after them, which they haven't so far.— they haven't so far. the minister's resonse they haven't so far. the minister's response is _ they haven't so far. the minister's response is interesting. _ they haven't so far. the minister's response is interesting. dp - they haven't so far. the minister's response is interesting. dp world | response is interesting. dp world are the parent company and have corporate responsibility for the actions of p&o ferries. has anybody picked up the phone to the government of the uae who have responsibility for dp world, and said this is simply not good enough, and not good for the reputation? irate and not good for the reputation? we have been absolutely clear when we have been absolutely clear when we have written to p&o that the decisions they have taken are absolutely catastrophic for their reputation, and we said the same thing to dp world. the reputation, and we said the same thing to dp world.— reputation, and we said the same thing to dp world. the minister is absolutely right, _ thing to dp world. the minister is absolutely right, this _ thing to dp world. the minister is absolutely right, this isn't - thing to dp world. the minister is absolutely right, this isn't fire - absolutely right, this isn't fire and rehire because the p&o workers haven't even been given the indignity of being offered back their contracts on lesser terms and conditions. but the flippant

disregard for the uk workforce, the contempt for the rule of law and the disgusting abuse of foreign workers in what can only be described as slave labour, isn'tjust wrong, it's not on, so i hope very much when the minister comes back to the house with his detailed package we will notjust be tough on words, we will be tough on actions and tough on p&0. i be tough on actions and tough on p&0. ., i, i, ., , p&0. i agree with the honourable member the _ p&0. i agree with the honourable member the way _ p&0. i agree with the honourable member the way the _ p&0. i agree with the honourable member the way the workers - p&0. i agree with the honourable | member the way the workers have p&0. i agree with the honourable - member the way the workers have been treated is absolutely not on, we have been absolutely clear on that and we are keen not on words but on action. i, ~' ,, ~ and we are keen not on words but on action. i, ,, m ~ ,,, . ,, and we are keen not on words but on action. i, ,, m ~ . ~ i . action. thank you, mr speaker. what is worse is that _ action. thank you, mr speaker. what is worse is that dp _ action. thank you, mr speaker. what is worse is that dp world _ action. thank you, mr speaker. what is worse is that dp world and - action. thank you, mr speaker. what is worse is that dp world and p80 i is worse is that dp world and p&o ferries were prepared to put crew untrained onto these ships and also passengers onto the ships and for them to sail completely against health and safety measures. therefore, there is something at the core of this company's culture which needs to be addressed which must

result in the licence being removed, because clearly it is prepared to be unsafe and break the law. i understand the honourable lady 's concern. i, , i, concern. the thing i hope that will ive her concern. the thing i hope that will give her confidence _ concern. the thing i hope that will give her confidence is _ concern. the thing i hope that will give her confidence is we - concern. the thing i hope that will give her confidence is we have - concern. the thing i hope that will give her confidence is we have the maritime coastguard agency in whom i have full confidence, they are outstanding safety regulator, they inspect all of these ships and if they are not safe to sail they will not sale. speaker:— they are not safe to sail they will not sale. speaker: that finishes, we are coming to — not sale. speaker: that finishes, we are coming to the _ not sale. speaker: that finishes, we are coming to the next _ not sale. speaker: that finishes, we are coming to the next statement - not sale. speaker: that finishes, we | are coming to the next statement and the statement will be from the secretary of state for education nadhim — secretary of state for education nadhim zahawi.— secretary of state for education nadhim zahawi. i, ,, , i, , i nadhim zahawi. thank you very much, mr speaker- — nadhim zahawi. thank you very much, mr speaker. with _ nadhim zahawi. thank you very much, mr speaker. with your _ nadhim zahawi. thank you very much, mr speaker. with your permission - nadhim zahawi. thank you very much, mr speaker. with your permission i . mr speaker. with your permission i will now make a statement on the publication of the schools white paper. since 2010 we have been on a mission, mr speaker, to give every single child a great education. we have made huge strides but we know there is still further to go on that journey. thatjourney that my

predecessor began and i'm proud to lead today. too many children, mr speaker, still do not get the start in life that will enable them to go on and make the best use of their talents and abilities. sadly, disadvantaged pupils, all those who have special educational needs, are less likely to achieve the standards we expect for them. since 2010 we have been rolling out many changes to our education system, changes that have driven up standards and lifted them up the league tables internationally and given us measurable evidence of what works. we will now put that evidence to use and scale up what we know will create a high—quality system for parents and teachers. we have an ambition but by 20 2030 we expect 90% of primary schoolchildren to reach the agreed standard in reading, writing and maths. in

secondary schools, i want to see the national gcse average grade in both english language and maths increase from 4.5 in 2019, two five. by boosting the average grade it shows a real determination to see all children, whatever their level of attainment, do better. a child who goes from a grade two to a grade three, a child that goes from grade eight to grade nine contributes to this ambition as much as a child on the borderline who may go up from grade four up to grade five. 50 every parent can rest assured that their child is going to get the attention they deserve, however well they are doing. it goes without saying that every child needs an excellent teacher, mr speaker. this white paper continues our reforms to training and professional development to give every child a world class teacher. the quality of

teaching is the single most important factor within a school for improving outcomes for children, especially those from disadvantaged backgrounds. ourvision especially those from disadvantaged backgrounds. our vision is an excellent teacher for every child in our country. but if we are to do this, mr speaker, we need to make teaching even more of an attractive profession. to make sure it is we will deliver 500,000 teacher training and development opportunities by 2024, giving all teachers and school leaders access to a world—class, evidence—based training and professional development at every stage of their career. we will also make a £180 million investment in the early years workforce. teachers' starting salaries are set to rise to £30,000, as we promised in our manifesto, and there will be extra incentives to

work in schools with the most need. world—class education also needs environments in which great teaching can have maximum impact, mr speaker. therefore, we will improve standards across curriculum, behaviour and attendance, making sure that all children are in school and ready to learn in calm and safe, supportive classes is my priority. all children will be taught a broad, ambitious, knowledge rich curriculum and have access to high—quality experiences. we will set up a new national curriculum body to support teachers, founded the success of the oak national academy. this body will work with groups across the sector to identify best practice, deepen expertise in curriculum design and develop a set of optional resources for teachers that can be used either

online or in the classroom. these resources will be available across the united kingdom, levelling up education across our great country. we will continue to support leaders and teachers to create a classroom were all children can learn in a way that recognises individual needs and abilities. in addition, we are going to boost our ability to gather and share data on behaviour and attendance. we will move forward with a national behaviour survey to form an accurate picture of what really goes on in school and in classrooms, and of course, to modernise our systems to monitor attendance. we will introduce a minimum expectation for the length of the school week to the national average of 32.5 hours for all mainstream state funded schools from september 2023 at the latest. thousands of schools already deliver this, mr speaker, but there are a number that don't and that needs to

change. too many children, mr speaker, especially those who are most vulnerable routinely fall behind and never catch up with their peers. the awful covid pandemic has of course made this worse, and even though i'm relieved to tell you that the latest research on learning loss, mr speaker, and recovery, shows pupils continue to make progress. but there is still much more to do. that is why today's white paper sets out our ambitions, really ambitious plan for scaling up that and building on nearly the £5 billion recovery funding already announced. i know that my children, mr speaker, are the most important thing in the world to me, and i'm not alone in saying this. all parents want their children to be happy and to grow up to a future thatis happy and to grow up to a future that is full of promise. so i am today making a pledge to parents. it is a pledge from me and this

government via schools to all families. the parent pledge is that any child that falls behind in english or maths will receive timely support to enable them to reach their potential. a child's school will let parents know how their child is doing and how the school is supporting them to catch up. tutoring has been a great success and it is that tutoring that is making a difference. it is here to stay, and we want for it to become mainstream, mr speaker, and a fundamental pillar of every school's approach to delivering the parent pledge. there will be up to 6 million tutoring packages by 2024. we know the approaches i have outlined make a huge difference to pupils, so i have asked myself, we have 22,000 schools in england. how do we ensure that these happen

systematically in every school for every child? how do we get that consistency across the system? and become clear from my six months consistency across the system? and become clearfrom my six months in the department, studying the evidence, that well—managed, tightly managed families of schools are those that consistently deliver a high—quality and inclusive education. it is one where expertise is shared for the benefit of all, and where resources and support can help more teachers and leaders deliver better outcomes for children. with this in mind, by 2030, we intend for every child to benefit from being taught in a family of schools with their school in a strong, and i underline strong, multi—academy trust, or with plans tojoin orform one. this move towards a fully trust led system with a single regulatory approach

will drive up standards. we want also to encourage local authorities, if they think they do well in running their schools, to establish their own strong trusts, and we will back them. they will be a clear role for every part of the school system, with local authorities given the power they need to support children. we will set up a new collaborative standard requiring trusts to work constructively with other partners. i know from my experience, both in business and in rolling out the covid vaccine, that the hardest thing for any complex system, whether it is health or education, is scaling up. but i have faith, i have faith in the brilliant leadership that we already have in our school systems, leadership that we already have in ourschool systems, in leadership that we already have in our school systems, in our educationalists, to be able to deliver on this white paper. we want to spread brilliance throughout our country, levelling up opportunity and creating a school system where

there is a clear role for every part of the system, all working together and all focused on one thing, and thatis and all focused on one thing, and that is delivering outstanding outcomes for our children. soon everyone will see what we all know, that this conservative government is busy making our schools the very best in the world. we should be so proud of how far we have come, and rightly hopeful about where we are going next. and for that reason i commend this statement to the house. shadow secretary of state bridget phillipson. shadow secretary of state bridget philli son. i, ~ shadow secretary of state bridget phillison. i, ~' m ~ shadow secretary of state bridget phillison. i, ~ ~ i,~ phillipson. thank you, mr speaker, and ma i phillipson. thank you, mr speaker, and may i thank— phillipson. thank you, mr speaker, and may i thank the _ phillipson. thank you, mr speaker, and may i thank the right - phillipson. thank you, mr speaker, i and may i thank the right honourable gentleman for advance sight of his statement today? it was a little over two years since schools were closed to most pupils. it is almost 12 years since his party came to power. and yet amongst the many ri announcements we heard over the weekend, the big ideas where that three quarters of our schools should

carry on as normal, teaching the hours they already do, that when children are falling behind schools will be there to help, and that the national tutoring programme, described by providers as at risk of catastrophic failure, is the answer to all of our problems. is that really it? is that the limit of his ambition for our children and for our country? he rightly stresses the need to be evidence led. is that all he thinks the evidence supports? speaker: i, , , speaker: order. in fairness, i exect speaker: order. in fairness, i expect the _ speaker: order. in fairness, i expect the secretary _ speaker: order. in fairness, i expect the secretary of - speaker: order. in fairness, i expect the secretary of state, | speaker: order. in fairness, i- expect the secretary of state, which he was, _ expect the secretary of state, which he was, was held with good order. i certainly— he was, was held with good order. i certainly want the same good order for the _ certainly want the same good order for the shadow secretary of state. if somebody doesn't want to keep good _ if somebody doesn't want to keep good order, please leave now. the secretary of _ good order, please leave now. tie: secretary of state rightly good order, please leave now. ti9 secretary of state rightly stresses the need to be evidence led. is that all he thinks the evidence supports? or is that all he could persuade the chancellor to support? mr speaker,

the attainment gap is widening. performance at gcse for our most disadvantaged children was going into reverse even before the pandemic. and after two years of ongoing disruption, it is clear enough where the focus should be. the secretary of state says he has ambitions, but they are hollow. hollow, because they are wholly disconnected from any means of achieving them. hollow because there is no plan to deliver them. but also hollow because there is no vision here about what education is for, what growing up in our country should involve, and what priority we should involve, and what priority we should give our children. we are two years into the pandemic. two years is a long time and an important time. i have children starting school in september. years of disruption, botched exams, isolation, time spent at home. we can all see the impact that this has

had on our children. yet time and again the government fails to grasp the truth, that time out of education for children and young people means more than time out in the rest of their lives. instead, our children have been an afterthought for this government. a government that showed its priorities when they reopen pubs before they reopen schools. a prime minister who is an adviser on education recovery resigned in despair. a department that closed schools to most children with little thought of how it would recover the damage or reopen them safely. labour listened to parents and young people, and set out the children's recovery plan our children need and our country deserves. breakfast clubs and new activities, quality mental health support in every school, small group tutoring for all who need it. our children have

waited long enough. when will they see a recovery plan that rises to the generational challenge staring us all in the face? only today his department published research setting out that in reading in particular pupils are falling further behind and the disadvantage gap is widening. but mr speaker, this is deeper thanjust gap is widening. but mr speaker, this is deeper than just the last two years. on these benches we see the value and worth every child. we see them as ambitious and with dreams for their futures. we see the role of government in matching, not tempering that ambition. education is about opportunity, and we want opportunity for every child in every corner of our country, at every stage. we want to child care that is high—quality, affordable and available, not a cost that prices people out of parenting. we want every parent to be able to send their child to a great local state school, which is why we would be launching the most ambitious school improvement plan for a generation,

focusing on what happens inside the school, not the name above the door. we want to see teachers supported to succeed, not leaving the profession as they are. which is why we have set out plans for career development and thousands of new teachers, because the success and professionalism of our teachers enables the success of our children. we want to see our children notjust achieve but thrive at school with a rich and broad curriculum that enables them to flourish. we want to give children and young people real choices and see them succeed through strong colleges and apprenticeships. that's why we would deliver work experience on a careers advice and digital skills for all of our young people so everyone leaves education ready for work and ready for life. that's why today's white paper represents such a missed opportunity. but for all the disappointment we feel on these benches echoed by school staff and school leaders across the country

today, and although the secretary of state in his heart probably feels that disappointment himself, it is our children whose voices are rarely heard in this place who are the real losers today. heard in this place who are the real losers today-— losers today. secretary of state. thank you. _ losers today. secretary of state. thank you. mr — losers today. secretary of state. thank you, mr speaker. - losers today. secretary of state. thank you, mr speaker. i - losers today. secretary of state. thank you, mr speaker. i was i losers today. secretary of state. - thank you, mr speaker. i was hoping for a plan but there was none forthcoming. she spoke about schools being closed. labour dancing to the tune of their union paymasters wanted to keep them closed. if the honourable lady thinks that is a plan, then maybe she should go and visit one of these schools, as i did with the honourable member in newham earlier on today. if she had been with me at the school with brilliant leadership with liz harris there and

her team, she would know that our reforms are working. that family of trusts of schools in a high performing multi academy trust is what is delivering for those children. 24% of whom are on pupil premium. great leadership, great teachers being supported by a fantastic teaching hub within the group that is part of their trust, delivering great outcomes for children rather than playing politics with our education system. i seem to recall that it was her leader who wanted schools to remain closed, and of course wanted to pause the whole of the vaccination campaign so that we would lose three months before we vaccinate teachers. of course, by not doing that, by many of his backbenchers going against him, we continued vaccinating, we protected teachers,

and we got back open. speaks about our standing and we got back open. speaks about ourstanding in the and we got back open. speaks about our standing in the world rankings. i can share with her that england achieved its highest ever scores in international comparison studies in both reading and maths in the 2016 and 2019 international tables, that's what this government delivers. the introduction of the phonics screening check in 2012 that has delivered. the percentage of year one pupils meeting expected standards has risen from 58%—82%, thatis standards has risen from 58%—82%, that is what this government is proud of, record of real delivery for young people in this country, with 91% achieving this standard by year two in 2019. of course we have had a pandemic since then, and that 5 billion inch of the recovery is making a real difference. again, she questions the recovery and what the national tutoring programme is doing, which we havejust

national tutoring programme is doing, which we have just announced has delivered 1 million blocks of tutoring, that's 15 hours for those children. it will meet its targets because school leaders told us they wanted a school lead pillar, as well as the other two pillars that are also delivering, and we have delivered that for them. the evidence we published today that she spoke about, in the spring of 2021 of last year, the evidence suggests that primary pupils have recovered around two thirds of progress lost due to the pandemic in reading, and around half of progress lost in maths. that is real delivery, mr speaker. maths. that is real delivery, mr seaker. i, i, ,, i speaker. chair of the select committee _ speaker. chair of the select committee robert - speaker. chair of the select committee robert halfon. i speaker. chair of the select - committee robert halfon. thank you ve much, committee robert halfon. thank you very much. mr _ committee robert halfon. thank you very much, mr speaker. _ committee robert halfon. thank you very much, mr speaker. i— committee robert halfon. thank you very much, mr speaker. i actually . very much, mr speaker. i actually welcome this white paper. i think there were the beginnings of a long—term plan for education, especially with the special needs review coming out tomorrow and the care review. i think that actually

what you've done is begun to put washing lines with all those clothes p995 washing lines with all those clothes pegs of different educational initiatives, i think the parent pledge and catch up plan is also really important. could ijust ask, the white paper talks about a knowledge rich curriculum. absolutely in favour of that, but what about a skills rich curriculum alongside? i see the skills minister watching carefully, financial education, technical and vocational education, technical and vocational education can reverse the huge decline in design and technology and better prepare students for the world of work. what does the white paper do for those children from care backgrounds, excluded backgrounds, from special needs backgrounds, from special needs backgrounds who underperformed compared to their peers in terms of gcses? we know the grim statistics. how will this white paper help them? how will this white paper help them? how will this white paper help them? how will the curriculum better prepare pupils for the world of work? and what is he doing, perhaps

one of the most important priorities is to return the 124,000 oliver twist ghost children possibly on our streets back to school who have not returned to school for the most part since the schools reopened last year? i'm grateful to the chair of the education select committee. he is right to identify that the schools white paper with the sen d green paper which we will consult on and published tomorrow and share with the house and the children's social care review byjosh mcallister really gives us the ability to knit together a system that delivers for all pupils, especially those with snd and those most vulnerable in the care system. on things like financial education, the schools minister is looking at how we can take that further and embed that in

the education system but he will also know that i walk around the country wearing on my lapel that tl, the technical level badge because thatis the technical level badge because that is a fusion between the great work on apprenticeships with a—levels. that is what we will do in terms of making sure children have those runways at their career path can take off on and he is right to remind us of the 124,000 children who are out of education which is white for the first time in our country we will have a register to make sure we know where those children are. there are many parents who deliver great home education but many children are lost in the system and we have to make sure we know where they are. this and we have to make sure we know where they are-— where they are. this has to finish b 5:15m where they are. this has to finish by 5:15pm so _ where they are. this has to finish by 5:15pm so please _ where they are. this has to finish by 5:15pm so please help - where they are. this has to finish by 5:15pm so please help each i where they are. this has to finish i by 5:15pm so please help each other by 5:15pm so please help each other by being _ by 5:15pm so please help each other by being short and sweet in questions as well as answers. it�*s

questions as well as answers. it's ood that questions as well as answers. it�*s good that the secretary of state has clearly been listening to the concerns of the profession of parents and young people since he came into post but the announcements he has made today are underpowered because of the funding pressures that will continue in the system. schools continue to face covid courts, they continue to face rising salary costs which are not being fully funded by the department, including the increased starting salary for new teachers still on the horizon, they face rising energy costs and other pressures organisations face and he will now there is a particularfunding pressure in relation to pupils with send, what is he doing to ensure schools have the funds they need to rise to the ambitions he laid out today? rise to the ambitions he laid out toda ? i, i, i, , i, , rise to the ambitions he laid out toda? i, i, i, , , today? the honourable lady is right today? the honourable lady is right to say there — today? the honourable lady is right to say there are _ today? the honourable lady is right to say there are many _ today? the honourable lady is right to say there are many pressures i today? the honourable lady is right to say there are many pressures on schools at the moment. the funding

we secured at the spending review was 7 billion, much of it front—loaded to this year and next year, energy costs are rising, 1.4% of a school's budget, the biggest part of the budget is wages but we are keeping an eye on what is happening to energy costs in schools. on send we have put an additional1 billion in so it now stands at 9.1 billion plus an additional 2.6 billion to make sure we deliver that provision we need in the system which is led to a lack of confidence from parents as to whether their child will get the right provision and today's white paper supports mainline schools to all be quite send schools as well. how will poorly performing schools get the brilliant teachers and better professional development he wants because that is what they need? he

wants because that is what they need? , , i, i, need? he is right, so we endowed the educational endowment _ need? he is right, so we endowed the educational endowment foundation i educational endowment foundation when we came into office and of course i havejust announced when we came into office and of course i have just announced that a further endowment for the next ten years, they have evidence what the qualifications and the quality of teacher training that is required, whether that the early career as a framework for later in life on professional development and we are scaling up half a million teacher training opportunities, never been attempted especially in my time in parliament. it's a huge scale up of teacher training and that is what we will deliver. , i, , teacher training and that is what we will deliver-— will deliver. yesterday confronted so - hie will deliver. yesterday confronted sohie re will deliver. yesterday confronted sophie reg on — will deliver. yesterday confronted sophie reg on her— will deliver. yesterday confronted sophie reg on her programme i will deliver. yesterday confronted | sophie reg on her programme the secretary of state could not answer a question about the shocking fall in funding. a question about the shocking fall infunding. my a question about the shocking fall in funding. my child started school just before this government came into power and arejust

just before this government came into power and are just about to finish. he talked about apparent pledge. when he apologised to the thousands of parents and young people for the last 12 years of this government and what they have done to that per—pupil funding for our children? to that per-pupil funding for our children? �* , , , _ children? i'm slightly puzzled by the question... _ the question... we will leave the house of commons, where the education secretary has been making that statement on government plans on education because we are crossing to new york, where the un secretary general antonio guterres has been addressing the situation in ukraine. let's have a listen in. , , the situation in ukraine. let's have a listen in-— a listen in. this is the moment in which it makes _ a listen in. this is the moment in which it makes sense _ a listen in. this is the moment in which it makes sense for - a listen in. this is the moment in which it makes sense for the i a listen in. this is the moment in which it makes sense for the un | a listen in. this is the moment in l which it makes sense for the un to assume the initiative and it depends on the will of the parties, to define the arrangements necessary to make that ceasefire persist. thank you.

make that ceasefire persist. thank ou. i, i, i, i, you. unfortunate timing on our part but i can you. unfortunate timing on our part but i can tell _ you. unfortunate timing on our part but i can tell you _ you. unfortunate timing on our part but i can tell you that _ you. unfortunate timing on our part but i can tell you that was - you. unfortunate timing on our part but i can tell you that was the i but i can tell you that was the secretary general of the un, antonio guterres. he has said that he has directed the un's paid chief to explore with the parties involved in the ukrainian crisis the possibility of a humanitarian ceasefire in ukraine —— aid chief. he also appealed for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire to allow for progress in serious negotiations aimed at reaching a peace agreement based on the principles of the united nations charter. there has been some criticism of the un in some quarters for not doing enough to try to intervene in the conflict in ukraine but that was the un secretary general antonio guterres addressing the issue in york. the

government in ukraine has said that the humanitarian crisis in the beleaguered south—eastern city of mariupol is now catastrophic. ukraine has not been able to open its humanitarian evacuation, there is today because of what it calls provocation from russian forces. ahead of new talks that are due to take place in turkey, fighting has intensified around cave with power cut out to more than 80,000 homes. ukraine's president, volodymyr zelensky, says he's prepared to discuss a formal neutral status for his country — as part of talks to end the war with russia. but he insisted any proposal would need to be put to the ukrainian people in a referendum, and the outcome guaranteed by third parties. the russian foreign minister sergei lavrov seemed to pour cold water on the idea of a putin — zelensky meeting when he spoke earlier today.

translation: the crisis | in ukraine, the conflict inside ukraine, has been brewing so long, all these years, that a huge number of problems have built up, therefore just meeting and exchanging views on what you think and i think, that would just be counterproductive now. we have to make sure that ukraine stops assimilating itself with the west, with nato, in the military sense, with threats to the russian federation, physical military threats to the russian federation. both the demilitarisation and the denazification of ukraine are an essential component of the agreements that we are trying to achieve. let's return to the government's plans for improving attainment and standards and behaviour in education. joining me now is colin lofthouse. he is the ceo of smart multi—academy trust, who work with primary schools in disadvantaged areas in the north east of england.

thanks forjoining us on bbc news. we have been watching the education secretary nadhim zahawi announce his plans, talk a little bit more about what is in this white paper in the house of commons and i wondered from a broad perspective, he promised that these announcements would give children a greater education. is that your view?— children a greater education. is that your view? like you, i have sent that your view? like you, i have spent some _ that your view? like you, i have spent some of— that your view? like you, i have spent some of my _ that your view? like you, i have spent some of my day - that your view? like you, i have spent some of my day reading l that your view? like you, i have i spent some of my day reading what is quite a weighty document and i cannot doubt the ambition in it. everyone wants to see all the children who go to schools in the uk do exceptionally well and that's what the education system has been trying for a long time, sol what the education system has been trying for a long time, so i don't doubt the ambition, i am 100% behind it. my main takeaway was there's not

a lot of new things in there and i think where we feel at the moment in terms of schools and education is it feels we are still in the middle of a pandemic, we are still dealing with the day consequences of staff being ill and it feels like a crisis still in schools and i don't feel the white paper recognises that enough. it doesn't pick up from the current space we feel we are inhabiting with all those challenges and pressures and i think the long tail of covid in education will take some years to work for you and i don't think that is recognised enoughin don't think that is recognised enough in the white paper. plat don't think that is recognised enough in the white paper. not into resting because _ enough in the white paper. not into resting because he _ enough in the white paper. not into resting because he made _ enough in the white paper. not into resting because he made a - enough in the white paper. not into resting because he made a pledge i enough in the white paper. not into. resting because he made a pledge to parents that any child who falls behind in england and wales will receive support to catch up. schools will have to offer a minimum of 32 hours teaching a week towards the

end of the decade, is that not enough? abs. end of the decade, is that not enou~h? : , , end of the decade, is that not enouh? : i, i, i, , i, enough? a lot of the details that are becoming — enough? a lot of the details that are becoming headlines - enough? a lot of the details that are becoming headlines from i enough? a lot of the details that| are becoming headlines from the white paper a bit like red herrings. i've been in education for two decades and i've been an ofsted inspector and in many schools. i don't recognise some of those things as new. i cannot remember the last time i walk through the door of a school and didn't find that they had an extended school day and were already offering way beyond 32 and a half hours of provision in terms of face to face with their pupils and i think the department itself recognises that is a minority of schools so i don't see that having a big impact. absolutely at the pandemic has widened some gaps in attainment and parents ought to be worried that, how has that affected their children, but we have even greater links with our parents and

families now. through the pandemic schools have done a fantasticjob to improve relationships with parents and talk to them the pandemic and also how their children are learning and i think schools have always done that well. i don't think we need something called apparent partnership to help us do that. what can you give us, would be my response. can you give us, would be my response-— can you give us, would be my response. what is new is that tar ets response. what is new is that targets for — response. what is new is that targets for maths _ response. what is new is that targets for maths and - response. what is new is that targets for maths and english j response. what is new is that i targets for maths and english that 90% of pupils should reach expected standards in those at the end of primary school. the figure in 2019 was nearer 65% so how achievable is that target? it’s was nearer 65% so how achievable is that taret? �* , i, was nearer 65% so how achievable is that taret? �*, i, i, , i, , that target? it's an ambitious taret. that target? it's an ambitious target- i'm — that target? it's an ambitious target. i'm behind _ that target? it's an ambitious target. i'm behind it. - that target? it's an ambitious target. i'm behind it. why- that target? it's an ambitious| target. i'm behind it. why not that target? it's an ambitious - target. i'm behind it. why not 100%. in our trust we say we should have the aspiration for every child to get reading and writing and maths. it's a difficultjob and we have

been sharing good practice and trialling and experimenting with new ways of working, new ways of doing that and off white paper itself says the system has the answers, there is already the answers to a lot of this but it's not working, nothing is working to get down that persistent gap and then add covid onto the top of that gives us a real issue of first catching up and helping to put back some of what we lost during covid and then identifying what are those things that work in the school context that they need to work and that's the main takeaway from advice i would give to the minister, is that absolutely schools have got fantastic ideas on how we can level “p fantastic ideas on how we can level up and get our children to that aspiration but not all things work in all schools and that has to be

context specific and it has to take account of what schools now about their children and the way they learn from the curriculum we need to put in place for those children and it will be as different from london as it is in my neck of the woods from the north—east. figs as it is in my neck of the woods from the north-east.— as it is in my neck of the woods from the north-east. as the ceo of a multi-academy _ from the north-east. as the ceo of a multi-academy trust _ from the north-east. as the ceo of a multi-academy trust you _ from the north-east. as the ceo of a multi-academy trust you are - from the north-east. as the ceo of a multi-academy trust you are in i from the north-east. as the ceo of a multi-academy trust you are in a i multi—academy trust you are in a good position to give us your thoughts into the ambition about 30 every child should be taught in a family of schools, so the suggestion all schools should be part of an academy trust. what are the advantages and value in that, how does it drive up standards? i advantages and value in that, how does it drive up standards?- does it drive up standards? i think auoin back does it drive up standards? i think going back to _ does it drive up standards? i think going back to my _ does it drive up standards? i think going back to my previous - does it drive up standards? i think| going back to my previous answer, what we can do for our schools, because we are a tight—knit group of schools and we come together most importantly, aspiration and value for children. we are all pulling in the same direction, we all want the same thing and are all ready to share good practice and pulled together for that aim and i suppose

the value we get from being a small academy trust, i have eight schools in our trust, is that we can be agile, we can experiment, we can share best practice really quickly and easily and also we can maximise the resources we have by sharing stuff from one school to another and we can do that rapidly, and i think they arejust some we can do that rapidly, and i think they are just some of the benefits but all schools, regardless of whether they are in a multi—academy trust or not, have that outlook. i wouldn't be in education if it wasn't an outward —looking, supportive feeling in between schools. we all want, regardless of academy or not, our children to benefit from good practice in south we share that widely. if schools want to ask to join our trust in the first thing we check is whether they

like the weight we are doing it. it has to be a school's choice to join a multi—academy trust that suits them, be aligned on values and principles, otherwise you get a mismatch and what you end up with is people not swimming in the same direction and you won't get as rapid improvement as we have had in our trust. , , i, trust. very interesting. colin lofthouse. _ trust. very interesting. colin lofthouse, thank _ trust. very interesting. colin lofthouse, thank you - trust. very interesting. colin lofthouse, thank you for i trust. very interesting. colin | lofthouse, thank you for your trust. very interesting. colin - lofthouse, thank you for your time. this afternoon, the chancellor rishi sunak has been defending his plans for the government's finances under questioning from mps on the commons treasury committee. he said the choices he had made were progressive and he was trying to help those on lower incomes. we are continuing to invest significantly in public services, we have not gone down the route of austerity to square the cicle. we had expansive plans to invest in levelling up and public services — we got hit by a pandemic which shrunk the size of the economy, and then we had

a choice and the choice was should we do austerity and scale back considerably on all those investments in the nhs and policing, levelling, transport infrastructure, and social care or do we raise the money to pay for them? we chose the latter route, so in the scheme of what's going on with the tax burden, it is linked to the pandemic and an expansive set of public spending plans and a desire to get our borrowing back to a responsible level and debt to be falling in a couple of years. in terms of individual measures and whether they are fair and progressive, i'm confident they are. if you look at the two measures announced and legislated for in 2021 spring budget, the two measures that largely solved the problem of coronavirus on our public finances, one was a rise in the corporation tax rate, so large companies that are profitable will pay more in corporation tax — 70% of companies will be exempted from that change,

their corporation tax rate will stay the same but the largest, most successful companies will pay more but still at a rate that is internationally competitive, lowest in the g7. i'm keen to stick to how progressive it is. that was one measure. the other measure in that budget was freezing income tax personal allowances which was widely recommended by a range of different people as being a progressive way to raise money, just by nature of the income tax system, which is progressive, obviously freezing thresholds raises more money from those on higher incomes in a way that supports recovery because it builds over time and people are not cash losers from that because it's about a threshold increase rather than taking cash out of people's pockets. rishi sunak speaking earlier. the

current deputy commissioner of the metropolitan police will act as commissioner while a replacement for dame cressida dick is found. the home secretary, priti patel, has announced a review into the circumstances and implications of dame cressida's departure. she quit after losing the backing of the london mayor over her plan to reform the force and made a series of controversies and allegations about the working culture of the force. the government no longer owns a controlling stake in natwest, after it sold 1.2 billion pounds worth of shares back to the bank. the deal means state ownership is now atjust over 48 percent, the lowest level, in more than a decade. the treasury took majority control during the 2008 financial crisis, to prevent the company from collapsing. as energy costs are set to rise for millions of households,

with a new price cap taking effect on friday, the bbc has discovered that the level of increase in bills could depend on where you live. on top of the gas and electricity we all use, there are also standing charges for connection to the network, and for the up—keep of infrastructure like electricity pylons. these costs vary region by region, as our consumer affairs correspondent, colletta smith explains. energy bills are all going in one direction. i'm not too sure how much they're going up by, we just know they're going up. yes, it is going up about £700. that's mostly because of the rising price for the energy you use, but there's another figure lurking on your bill. something called the standing charge. that's the price that all of us pay every dayjust for the privilege of having your home connected to the grid. it's a bit like line rental for the telephone. and that cost is going up for everybody, but it is going up by different amounts, depending on where you live. you need more poles, more complicated infrastructure to get energy to more remote parts of the uk.

that's why there's always been a difference in that standing charge level. but these latest price rises are not going up by the same proportion. london's seeing the smallest increase, up 8 pence a day, while north wales and merseyside are seeing their standing charge double this week, up an extra 23 pence. the regulator sets a different maximum standing charge in each area. ofgem told us that some regions are increasing more than others because of a reallocation of network costs. that means people living here in liverpool will have to find an extra £50 a year compared to people living in london, just to cover that standing charge increase. surprise, surprise, it's liverpool again, isn't it? yeah, it's always being hit the hardest, ithink, and we just, we can't really rebel against it, you just have to make do with what we're told, don't we, so unfortunately i think there's people in poorer areas where we work who, you know, are choosing between food bills and energy bills at this stage. thankfully we are not

in that position, but it's not too far from home. even if it's only an extra £50, £60, that makes a difference. we're already feeling it in so many areas, this isjust another hit. and there is no way round those high bills at the moment. yeah, we normally shop around every year when they come in, but at the minute, pointless really, isn't it? and those higher bills from april will look different, depending on where you live. coletta smith, bbc news, in liverpool. the los angeles police department, says it hasn't yet received a complaint to investigate an assault by the actor will smith on the comedian chris rock at last night's oscars ceremony. shortly before collecting the award for best actor, mr smith climbed on stage and slapped mr rock, to the shock of the audience and millions of viewers around the world watching on television. the comic had made a joke about the actor's wife, jada pinkett smith. our north america correspondent, david willis, has more from hollywood. cheering

all smiles as will smith arrived at the oscars. the night was billed as his coronation as one of the greatest actors of his generation. listen, looks like jada approved you, so you'd better get on up here. an earlierjoke by host regina hall saw smith laughing along. jada, i love you, gi jane 2, can't wait to see it, all right? but watch the reaction of wife jada pinkett smith when the comedian chris rock made fun of her shaved head. a remark that brought smith striding onto the oscars stage. wow! audio of the live broadcast was cut as the actor screamed obscenities from his seat. smith's open—handed slap left the comedian visibly shaken and the celebrity audience wondering how they should react. that was the greatest night in the history of television. minutes later he was called back to the stage to collect the oscar for best actor. will smith! in a tearful acceptance speech, the king richard star

blamed his actions on the pressures of fame. in this business, you've got to be able to have people disrespecting you. and you've got to smile and you've got to pretend like that's ok. i want to apologise to the academy, i want to apologise to my fellow nominees. the evening began more conventionally with the best supporting actress award going to ariana debose, the first openly queer woman of colour to win an academy award for acting. so to anybody who has ever questioned your identity, ever, ever, ever, or find yourself living in the grey spaces, i promise you this, there is indeed a place for us. nominated eight times before in no fewer than seven different categories, sir kenneth branagh is finally an academy award winner. belfast earning him an oscar for best original screenplay. we will never forget one of those

lost in the heartbreaking, heart—warming, human story of that amazing city of belfast on the fabulous island of ireland. jane campion was named best directorfor the power of the dog, only the third woman in history to carry off that award. and star—studded applause in sign language greeted troy kotsur�*s award for best supporting actor for the dramedy coda. he is the first deaf man to win an academy award. this is dedicated to the deaf- community, the coda community and the — disabled community. this is our moment. and the oscar goes to... 0k, coda. cheering and coda's moment it was, indeed. the apple tv film was named best picture, the first time a streaming service has won top prize at the oscars. whether the academy will penalise will smith for his actions

here remains to be seen. the los angeles police department has issued a statement, saying it is aware of an incident involving two individuals at the academy awards, but adding that neither individual has so far decided to file a police report. the evening was overshadowed by a slap that was seen around the world, and calls are growing for will smith to be stripped of his oscar and barred from taking part in the oscars again. david willis, bbc news, at the academy awards. clive will be back with you at 5pm. now it's time for a look at the weather with darren. hello. it has been warm in the sunshine again today but how things are going to change through the rest of this week. it is going to be turning much, much colder. temperatures will be falling away really quite significantly. today, 17 or 18 degrees in the sunshine, above average for the time of year. there is colder air the north of scotland. as we see a northerly wind

developing this week, the colder air will push its way southwards and these are the temperatures we have got by thursday and it will feel colder in the wind. and with those sort of numbers it is actually going to be cold enough for some sleet and snow to fall almost anywhere. today, though, it has been rain keeping it on the chilly side across parts of northern england, but either side of that there was warm sunshine once again. thickening cloud coming into the english channel and that will develop wetter weather across southern counties of england. a lot of that rain tending to peter out across northern england and there is a band of rain to head into the far north of scotland but the rest of mainland scotland having some clearer skies and perhaps a slight frost overnight. shouldn't be quite so cold elsewhere. low cloud, mist and fog coming in off the north sea into the eastern parts of england and into the midlands as well. that will slowly tend to lift but it could linger and keep it cold across some parts of the east midlands, lincolnshire and east anglia. otherwise we will see some sunshine. a few showers breaking out.

rain heading out into the english channel and some wet weather moving into scotland and that will turn wintry in the hills. for all of us it will be a colder day on tuesday. the really cold air is to the north of that weather front, bringing wet weather down across scotland and that weather front continue southwards overnight and into wednesday so we have got the zone of cloudier weather here. this is where we have got rain but also sleet and snow over the hills, and to the north of that some sunshine with those showers turning increasingly wintry and during down that colder air behind the weather front which is sort of in this sort of position on wednesday. as we head into wednesday night that wetter weather continues to run southwards. colderair digging in behind all the while. rain is likely to turn to sleet and snow across southern parts of england and wales. there could be a slight covering here and there and that will tend to slowly move away and then we are left with some sunshine and a whole rash of wintry showers, hail, sleet and snow on thursday. and those temperatures are typically six degrees down the eastern side of the uk and it will feel much colder in those stronger winds.

this is bbc news. i'm clive myrie. the headlines: ukraine's president, volodymyr zelensky, says his country could become neutral — in a bid to end russia's invasion. translation: i understand it's impossible to force russia i completely from ukrainian territory. it would lead to a third world war. i understand it, and that's why i'm talking about a compromise. the mayor of mariupol warns the besieged port city faces 'humanitarian catastrophe' and says it must be completely evacuated. the head of the united nations urges russia and ukraine to, with a humanitarian truce. drama at the oscars, as the hollywood actor will smith hits one of the presenters at the ceremony,

chris rock.