this is bbc news. we will have the headlines and the menu stories at the top of the r, straight after this programme. i don't think i have ever felt this nostalgic, because it is laura kuenssberg's final hours as bbc political editor. yeah. would you like to be reminded of your first few minutes of the job? i thought you might do that. when i was young and fresh and how i used to look. full of energy. we raided the cinefilm archive and this is what we found. fa news. let us talk to our political editor, laura kuenssberg. 50, laura, what is the significance of this change in wording. well, fiona, human nature, according to the electoral commission, makes us rather eager to please.

more ready to say yes or no, whatever the question we are being asked. so, today, they budged david cameron into changing the question that will be put to us, so before the end of next year, voters will be asked not to say yes or no to the eu, but whether they want to remain or to leave the european union. you are very tanned, then! had you just been on a nice holiday or something? yeah, i started in august, started at the end of august, 2015, so yeah... can you remember that first moment, because obviously you had been on the telly shed loads before that, but you are now suddenly wearing this big title. i do. because i remember specifically, i started earlier and in a sign of things to come, i ended up starting earlier than i expected. because, actually, people might remember, there was an immigration crisis in europe and there was a lot of people on the move and then there was the terrible image of alan kurdi, the little child who had lost his life making a journey, and the bbc decided to make a special programme

around the immigration process and i remember it in a phone call, i think from the boss of the time, saying, right, you're just going to start a few days earlier, we need you in downing street tomorrow night. actually, i think it might have been that night. so, yeah, off i went. so, i do absolutely remember, because i think i had had a holiday, you know, trepidatious, i had been a newsnight or whatever, but i do remember. i really, really remember. i love that you started as you went on, then. do this now! 0h, 0k, fine! i know you did not think that you would be working today, but actually you are. 0h, right. should have known! but because laura is a super modest person, that is basically it now for going down memory lane and on this episode of newscast, we are going to be completely bang up—to—date with an amazing interview with the chancellor. newscast. newscast, from the bbc. it is laura in the studio and is the first time i have ever been allowed to go first! laughter and maybe last. it is adam in the studio, too.

a rare privilege granted, after all these years of casting in various directions. exactly. throughout this programme, we have been told that we have to have laser—like focus, laser—like focus. you haven't said hello! did i not do that? anyway... it really is. so, laura, you were sitting down with rishi sunak, the chancellor, after, well, quite a week for him, really, after the spring statement and the reaction it provoked and i guess him thinking, well, i had better sit down and talk about it a bit more and make sure that people know that i get it, as he would hope it is seen. i think what happened last week, and we talked about it on the programme, didn't we, that the chancellor came up with the spring statement and also, people like him sweat over this stuff for months and months and weeks and weeks and it is a big deal, but he basically got quite a kicking, notjust from papers on the left, not just from think tanks or anything, but also from the conservative papers. it really was a difficult, difficult reception for the treasury. so, i think what rishi sunak has been trying to do

is sort of explain himself. say actually, this is what it was all about, so people will remember. huge criticism for not doing enough to help people with the cost of living, which we all know is really getting tough for people out there, and secondly, for brandishing this promise of a tax cut and saying, hey, i am a tax cutter, when actually, we know that the tax burden is going up and up and up and has done under this government. maybe that is legitimate, maybe it is not, but he had a really, really tough political time. and, if you are watching or listening to this on friday, friday is the day when the energy price cap goes up, it finally happens, after us talking about it for so long, and if you want to order a lateral flow test in england, they are no longer free. so, the consequences of his decision and the issues he is having to grapple with are playing out in real time, right in front of us. so, that was the background to your interview and you started off by saying to him, oh, what has it been like having this kind of week? as someone said, joe root,

will smith and me, not the best of weekends. for any of us. but, on reflection, both will smith and may having our wives attacked, at least i did not get up and slap anybody, which is good. did you feel like it? you know, i know what people are going through, it is tough, and that is tough, but in terms of me and it being a horrible week, you know, people being critical of me, the media, that doesn't make it tough for me, and although it is tough in myjob, the first few months, the first few days, the first few weeks, i had thisjob, that was really, really tough, trying to figure out what to do, almost two years to the day, right, today. we locked the country down. those were probably the hardest weeks, to get that right and i didn't get into this, you know, because you want to be popular, actually people being critical of you and that, that is not what makes the job harder, that is not why i got into it, so... that is interesting, because i know that you put a lot of thought into what you do and i know that the spring statement was a really big day for the treasury, it always is.

does it not get you, then, that actually it came in for a lot of criticism, because i know you put a huge amount into it, you put forward your ideas and then actually you had conservative papers, the left—wing papers, think tanks, you know, a lot of people saying that you have got it wrong. yeah, and that is fine, that is how it should be, right, and we should debate these things, we are there to be accountable for what we are doing, but i am confident in what we have done, right and i am here talking to you, i was in front of the treasury select committee earlier this week, and i will keep explaining what we are doing and why we are doing it and why i think it is the right thing to do. i know it is tough for people, we are facing a very difficult situation with the price of things going up and i want to do what we can to ameliorate some of that, but i am also honest with people, you know, we can't ameliorate all of this and i know it is difficult for people to hear and as tough

as part of this job is, it is tough not being able to do everything that people would like you to do, because we are already borrowing quite a large amount of money, and i don't think borrowing lots more would be sensible. actually, it has the risk of making the problem worse, when you have got inflation and interest rates going up, so those are the things i am trying to balance, but within that, how best to get what types of help to what people, those are the choices i have made and ifeel confident in those. you now say you will do whatever you can, during the pandemic you used to say, "i will do whatever it takes." so, can you just explain that shift in thinking, do you worry, because the implication of that is that you worry about, during the pandemic, people got too used to the government stepping in. yeah, someone said this, you know, there is all this pandemic rishi and now there is the post—pandemic rishi and, no, it is the same rishi, right, doing the same things. i have got a set of principles and values, and i am trying to make sure that we express those through the policies that we deliver. they are two very

different situations. you know, what was right for a pandemic, when it was the government shut down the entire economy and that is different now. in all parts of myjob, it involves balancing risk and if you think about what happened two years ago when we shut the country down, what was the biggest risk we faced and that i was worried about, as i was saying, was that we would have 10 million plus people who lost theirjobs overnight. that was the single biggest thing i was worried about so we did and what we could do to try and protect as many as possible. even then, i can remember the first proper interview i did was with you on my birthday and i think i said, for the first time, sadly i am not going to be able to save everyone�*s job. and the biggest risk we face now is high inflation, and actually the risk of that becomes embedded and it is something we will have to deal with for years and years and it is something that i want to make sure it does not happen and that is why now, the right thing to do is different to what it was then. let me go through some of the numbers, right? the average dual fuel bill is going up by nearly £700 a year.

that is on friday. now, your offer is £150 of council tax, it is not an insignificant amount of money, and then £200 as a loan later in the year. but, if you look at that increase in bills, nearly £700, what the government is offering people, 350 over time, part of that a loan, what you are putting forward does not even touch the sides! you know, on yourfirst point about it has got worst since the autumn, it is precisely because we knew that it was going to get tough and i think i said that then, which is why we took action early to help on universal credit and deliver that policy as quickly as we could before christmas. now, ordinarily, policies like that take months and they would have come in about now, but i went out of my way to figure out how we can bring it in slightly sooner, to start getting help for people sooner. people are about to get whacked! we did that in advance of this happening, so i think it is one thing to say, if you do it too late and people say, oh, we waited too late now if you do it early, people are like, oh, you have not got anything new to offer, so you cannot win either way,

but on the energy bills, you're absolutely right. we knew about what was happening with the energy price cap in february and that is when it was announced, but on the same day, i stood up and made a statement in parliament and explained what we would do to help people and i was clear then and actually, i think it was broadly well received, the government cannot make all of that go away, right. i was clear then, it was like we are adjusting all of us, having to adjust to higher energy prices... but there are other political choices that you could have made, that might not have required tens and tens of billions. there are even some people in your party who would have liked you to have made other decisions, you know, inflation is running at double the amounts that benefits, as you mention, will go up by about 3%, you did not do anything about that, back in your spring statement, you did not scrap the national insurance rise, i know you made some tweaks to the numbers of people who would be paying it, but lots of people in your own party thought it was crazy to be putting up people's tax up now.

i think it started by saying that there are things that you could do that would not cost a fortune and that would cause, over the period that all these numbers look at, the forecast period, doing that to welfare would cost about £25 billion. it would be another £25 billion, round numbers, to do the same on pensions, right, so that's £50 billion already. then you can add more to start compensating government departments for inflation and pay and that is another tens of billions of pounds, so actually, the thing that you are suggesting or someone else might be suggesting, would mean a significant increase in borrowing, significant increase, not a small decision, it is a tens and tens of billions of pounds decision to do that and for the reasons we have just been over we are making judgments about what is appropriate or not. i am confident that we are helping those in the lowest incomes, the vast majority of them either are in or can work and we are spending a fortune to give them the skills and support they need to find newjobs, find better jobs, and that combined with the changes we made to universal credit,

give me the confidence that we are helping them and we have created a new discretionary support fund worth half a billion going to local councils to help the most vulnerable families who need a little bit of extra help. that is the first one, that thing, it is not a small thing, it is literally tens of billions of pounds. some people thought that actually, whether or not the nhs in principle is a good thing, actually, increasing people's taxes, right now, is a crackers thing to do and people in your own party were pushing very hard for you to suspend that tax rise altogether. so, what we did by introducing, by raising the national insurance threshold by the considerable amount that we did, which means that nobody will pay a penny of income tax or national insurance on the first £12,500 that they earn, it is a very significant tax cut for 30 million people, . .. it is a cut of something that you are going to do. labour said it was the hokey cokey, because a few months ago you said you were going to put it up and now you said, i am only going to put it up for some of those people

and it is a bit, you know, hang on... it is the levy. they are two very different things. i think it is absolutely right that we have a dedicated source of funding for the country's number one priority and that is a new thing for this country, that we all know how important the nhs and social care is, but because of the tax cut we announced last week, 70% of taxpayers, 70% of nx payers are going to pay less tax, even after accounting for the new levy, that is how generous what we did last week is. but you did promise an income tax in two years' time, when, by your own admission, lots of people are going to have a really hard time making ends meet now, in the coming months. do you think you have misjudged the mood? no. they are two different things. we have also delivered a very generous tax cut immediately, it is coming in injuly, the raising of the national insurance threshold, that is worth £6 billion of tax cuts, for 30 million people, it is the biggest personal tax cut in a decade,

it is hugely significant and we also cut fuel duty, for the first time in a decade, and by more than it has been cut, pretty much in its history, as far as we can tell. it's interesting talking to you this afternoon, you've really clearly, and really passionately, actually made your case, which is, look, we've got to get off borrowing so much, we have to wean ourselves of this, and if anyone wants to come and fight me on that territory, great, i'll square up to them. do you wish, or feel, you could have explained that a bit better last week? well, look, you're the comms expert, so, if that wasn't apparent, then clearly, that's why i'm here talking to you today, and why i will keep talking to people, and i made that case at the treasury select committee in parliament. and are you, rishi sunak, willing in the next couple of years to be quite unpopular? yeah, i didn't get into... i don't do this job and put the hours in and everything else that it entails, to win some popularity contest, i'm doing what i believe every

day when i come to the office, trying to do the right thing for the country. and it's clearly... i could have stood up last week and made lots of other decisions that would have made people very happy for 2h hours, and would have been popular. the windfall tax is a good example of that, right? but i'm trying to do what i believe is right for the country in the long term. you see, some of your cabinet colleagues do think you're quite interested in being popular, too. one of them said to me, things will be fine for rishi sunak as long as he's standing on the street corner giving out free fivers, but when that runs out, things might get a bit tricky — are things getting a bit tricky? but again, it goes back to what we were talking about at the beginning, if i wanted to just be popular, then i'm sure there are lots of different choices i could have made. right? but i don't believe they're the right ones. and you know, i'm going to explain best i can to the country why what i'm doing i believe is right for the country, why ultimately it's... some of these things are difficult, they're certainly unpopular, but they're responsible, and will help us in the long term. and i'm not going to deviate from thatjust for some short—term popularity gain, that's why i'm happy to keep making the case

for what i believe and why i think it's right. what happened with you filling up someone�*s car, what was that all about? well, i feel... i've obviously done a great favour for the head of marketing at kia this week, if nothing else, this past week. after all of these events, you've covered this for years, right, like, the chancellor would typically go and do a visit somewhere. a photo opp. yeah, to highlight a policy that we have put in place. 0bviously one of the things that people are focused on is the price of fuel at the moment. we obviously have cut fuel duty for the first time in a decade by the most that it's ever been cut. and i went to try and showcase that policy, and it was one of the employees at the place, and i was filling up his car, and that was what that was about, and it was nothing more, nothing less. people can have a laugh, that's fine, but ultimately it's a way for people to realise, 0k, fine, they're doing something on fuel duty, and... so, actually, if there is a fuss about it, you end up getting more coverage?

if people have taken away from all of that that we have actually cut fuel duty by 5p for the first time in a decade, and the biggest amount ever, that is a good thing. it's not going to solve all the problem with petrol prices, but it shows that we are where we can make a difference and try to make some difference within the bounds of what is possible, that helps a lot of people, then we are. you have had a bit of ribbing in the aftermath of it, and one of the things that did happen is, people started asking questions about your family and about your wife, what was that like, she got dragged into it over her family's business interests, what did that make you feel? you know, it's a... i think it's totally fine for people to take shots at me, that's fair game, i'm the one sitting here, and that's what i signed up for. you know, actually, it's very upsetting, and i think wrong for people to try and come at my wife, and you know, beyond that, actually, with look to my

father—in—law, for whom i have nothing but enormous pride and admiration for everything that he's achieved, and no amount of attempted smearing is going to make me change that, because he's wonderful and has achieved a huge amount, and i am enormously proud of him. 0n brexit, you said something interesting the other day, you came close to admitting that brexit was having a negative impact on trade. if people missed it, you said, "it was always inevitable that "we'd be changing our trade intensity with europe "as a result of the changing relationship." well, look, trade intensity going down, that means people are making less money, right, doesn't it? yeah, the point i was making, in fact, i've said it before, and lots of other people have, the prime minister has said it before, there was always going to be a change in the nature of our trade with europe once we left a customs union. a customs union is a very particularform of how you trade with countries around you, and even though we have, i think, an exceptionally deep, comprehensive, free trade agreement that there isn't

really any replica for anywhere around the world for how good it is, as a free trade agreement, it's not the same as being part of a single market and a customs union. the numbers show very clearly that trade with europe has gone down, that means people are making less money, when do you hope to be able to prove to people that your belief was that it was the right thing to do, when do you think you will be able to prove that? so, look, on trade, i do believe, honestly, it will take a little bit of time, because there's so many different things going on, the supply chains are adjusting, both to the new trading relationship with the eu, but also coronavirus. so it will take a little bit of time to settle down. but it is as i said inevitable that there will be some change. brexit i always thought was not... it was not an event, in one sense, we should think of it as a process, the benefits of which will accrue over time. it didn't say a process on the side of a bus, it said 350 million quid a week. well, there are many benefits of brexit, right, and many of which we have realised very quickly, for example, a change in our migration system, and we can do those things and we can do them very

quickly, i announced last week in the spring statement, because we're no longer subject to the eu rules, we were able to be more generous in how we view vat on energy—saving materials like heat pumps and solar panels, right? and, look, again, all of these things cumulatively add up. free ports is another example of a policy that we've put in place, we're able to go further than we would be able to under the eu, trading relationships with other countries, which will take time. again, the benefits of those don't accrue overnight, they accrue over years, as countries and companies adjust to the fact that there's a new set of opportunities for them. but i do believe over time... and every time we can do something different regulatory—wise, supportive of innovation, for example, whether it's in life sciences or technology, you know, that will then lead to perhaps a company getting started that does a new product, that creates jobs, all these things. so many unknowns. yeah, there's lots of things, over time, that i think will accumulate to it being positive for the country, some of which we've already seen the benefits of, migration, and others which you will see over time.

one of the other huge events, it's been such a crazy time since you've been in the job, of course, is what has gone on over the partygate saga, as it's come to be known. but the last time we talked, you said you didn't know what had gone on in downing street, in terms of clarity and transparency, if you get a fine, we know that you got a questionnaire, but if you get a lockdown fine, will you make that public? yes. you will. if borisjohnson gets a fine, can he stay on as prime minister or should he resign? well, look, he's already been asked this, i think he was asked it literally an hour ago, or two hours ago. i'm asking you. it's not for me to answer on his behalf. and i think the prime minister said... what is your view, you're probably the second most senior person in the government, can a lawmaker be a law—breaker, is that 0k? look, it would be wrong for me to say anything more than what the prime minister has said, laura, and he said, look, we don't, he doesn't, we don't know the answer to these questions today, right, so they're questions for when the inquiry has concluded. it's right that it concludes and the prime minister has been very clear that he will address it at that time, and look, it's tough for me to add

anything more to what he said, he's answered your direct question. and just a last thing, what about you as chancellor? gordon brown was chancellor for such a long time, often quoted as, he had this joke, he used to tell it to business audiences, he used to say, there are two kinds of chancellor, there are those who fail... and those, yes, who get out in time! what are you going to be? yeah, i've used hisjoke. you've used it as well? yeah, yeah. so, what's your punchline, then? well, that's always in the hands of the prime minister, isn't it, his pleasure? i can't really add much more to that. it has been a busy couple of years, right, it's been a busy couple of years, i've had to deal with a lot, everyone has had to deal with a lot, and we'll keep going, right, we'll keep going, we'll get through it, my general view is, if we've got through the last couple of years, we can get through anything, as a country. i'm amazed, actually, and humbled, every time i'm out on one

of these visits, whether it's filling up people's cars, or otherwise, and so, yeah, ifeel confident, challenging months ahead though we have, that we will get through it. and your purchase at the garage was £30.01 of petrol, was it a coke and a yorkie? no, twix, i am a twix person. it's very irritating, i always try and solve it to the round thing, but, yes, it went over by a penny. and, yes, twix and a coke, my sugar of choice for these type of things. chancellor, watching the pennies to the last, rishi sunak, thank you so much forjoining us on newscast. thank you for having me. i must admit, it is quite tempting at the petrol pump, for no good reason, particularly if you're paying with a card and so you're not having to get out the exact amount of notes or whatever, to get it exact. just to set yourself a little target. you know, because if you're filling it up and it hits that bit where it's basically full, and, such and such and 72p, oh, i reckon i can get it to, you know. now you say that, i do that as well, i am, like, let's go for £10 worth, or £20, or whatever. although now it's, like, let's go for 90 quid filling up a tank of diesel! one day i will be grown—up

enough to have a car. also, isn't it interesting, already that interview is making loads of headlines around the world, because he waded right into the will smith, chris rock, jada pinkett smith thing, which is unusual, because politicians want to avoid things like that most of the time, and he just dived straight in. but it's tempting to sound "of the now", which i guess is probably what he was trying to do. well, i think he was trying to find a way of kind of saying, yeah, i've had a tough time, but actually, now let me explain all the things that are really important, and i think he did as well. it was interesting that, well, he said very clearly and plainly, sitting in that seat, chris, we've just got to stop borrowing as much as a country. he said it really plainly, really clearly, in the way that george osborne used to say it. i think some people in his own party would think, gosh, if you had said that more obviously last week, you might not have had this kind of howl round. because that's kind of at the core of his beliefs isn't it? yeah, exactly. he talks about that all the time, in various speeches.

yeah, he believes it. thanks for that brilliant interview, and thanks for everything as well. and that is it for this episode of newscast, we will be off for the holidays, for easter, for a couple of weeks, and then we'll be back on your tv screens and the podcast will carry on on bbc sounds as normal. and if you're looking for some excellent on demand content, i can recommend a little mini documentary called, everything has changed, which is looking back at the last six or seven years in british politics, and how bizarre it's been, and dramatic, through the eyes of laura kuenssberg. and lots of other people, nigel farage, nicola sturgeon, and lots of people. and it's on bbc sounds, and hilariously, on iplayer, the way that it's phrased, it says, everything is changed, with laura kuenssberg, which actually is kind of true as well! laura, thank you for everything, i've absolutely loved sitting here with you, and i think all i want to say to you is that the best feeling in the world is making you laugh. because you work so hard, and it's really, i can see it's sometimes quite stressful, so, you coming in here and me being able to crack a joke and you laughing is absolutely

amazing, and the memories of this room and these headphones are just amazing. you're not allowed to say anything else nice, or else i shall be visibly moved. thank you both so much, and thank you to all our amazing newscasters. from all of us, thank you for listening. bye — bye. hello. spring weather can often be erratic, and we've certainly seen that play out during the past few days. march, for a good part of the time, was dry and sunny. in fact, scotland and northern ireland, according to the met office, provisionally had the sunniest march on record. it was only on sunday we saw conditions like this in aberdeenshire. the warmest parts of the country 19 degrees. fast forward to thursday afternoon, and temperatures at times only 2 celsius as the snow showers came down fairly heavy. and they are continuing

as we go into friday as well. the run of north—northeasterly winds all the way from the arctic continue. strongest towards the southeast as we start friday, linked into this area of low pressure developing across europe. and it's here we could see a further covering of snow. high pressure trying to build in, and with showers fading for most into the morning, we will see a widespread frost, and across eastern areas, icy conditions to begin the day. for most of you, actually a sunny start to friday. the sleet and snow showers across eastern areas continue, particularly towards that southeast corner, and they will develop a bit more widely as we go through the day. but turning more to rain and sleet rather than pure snow. also at the same time, clouding over through the morning for the highlands and islands, that cloud will bring rain and hill snow across parts of scotland and eventually into northern ireland later in the day. temperatures still on the cold side, 6—10 degrees, feeling coldest towards the southeast corner, especially with the strongest of the winds. but improving conditions for the afternoon compared with the morning, more in the way of dry weather. now, as we go into the night, friday night into saturday, we will see outbreaks of rain

and hill snow spread its way southwards into wales. that should keep the temperatures just above freezing away from the hills and mountains, but elsewhere, another very cold night with a widespread frost, and the risk of ice to start the weekend. but for many, actually quite a bright day. there will be a few showers close to the east, the main showers will be across wales, southwest england, a little bit wintry over the hills. cloud will bubble up through the day to produce occasional slow—moving showers, but the vast majority will spend either the whole or the bulk of the day dry. temperature up a little bit and given the lighter winds and that strong sunshine overhead, it shouldn't feel too bad out there, especially compared with thursday. into sunday, another widespread frost to begin with, isolated showers developing through the day as cloud builds up, but another batch of thicker cloud, outbreaks of rain, stronger winds pushing towards the northwest of scotland, and they will bring slightly milder weather as we go into next week. that's how it's looking. i will see you again soon.

fewer welcome to bbc news, i'm nuala mcgovern. our top stories. vladimir putin demands payment for gas in roubles — warning russia will stop supplying european countries it deems "unfriendly". translation: nobody sells us free of charge anything, - and we are not going to do charity either. all the existing contracts will be suspended. president biden tries to combat rising fuel prices at the pump, freeing up millions of gallons of crude oil. in ukraine, new attempts are made to deliver aid to thousands in mariupol after weeks of russian bombardment. the war�*s prompted many western nations to reassess their defence commitments — we analyse the debate in europe. and the qatar world cup begins to loom large — but there's still scrutiny over human rights.