this is bbc news. we'll have the headlines and all the main new stories for you at the top of the hour, as newsday continues straight after hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. vladimir putin still calls his invasion of ukraine a special military operation. the hollowness of that phrase has been exposed as horrifying evidence has emerged from towns and villages around kyiv, recently vacated by russian forces. hundreds of civilian corpses have been found, some bound

and shot in the head. the ukrainians are calling it evidence of genocide. moscow says it's all fake. my guest is ukraine's foreign minister, dmytro kuleba. as this war gets ever darker, is there any room at all for diplomacy? foreign minister dmytro kuleba, in warsaw, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. foreign minister, we know that your forces, ukrainian forces are now in many towns and villages recently left by russian forces around your capital, kyiv.

give me the latest information you have on what they have found. it is true that russian forces withdrew from some of the villages and towns, but it also shouldn't be forgotten that we pushed them out. our army pushed them out from many villages and towns too. the picture that we discovered there is horrifying. it's very hard to speak about it. we already have more than 400 bodies of civilians killed, tortured, killed deliberately. there is evidence that these were not accidents. they were killed on purpose by the russian military. there are some women were raped and killed after that. there are reports that some children, girls were also raped

and killed by the russian army, and our prosecutor, office of the prosecutor general, is looking into those cases. it's unspeakable, what we found there, but i regret that as our army will be entering more and more liberated villages and towns, the picture will get even darker. and the worst is yet to come, because we still don't have full access to mariupol, and mariupol, the situation there is much, much worse. what you have already described to me is unimaginable. it's beyond horrifying. but of course, we already know that moscow has said this is not true, it is fake, it has been staged. so what are you doing to ensure that not only your own forces are gathering evidence,

but independent investigators and observers are able to get there and gather evidence? well, with the very first moment we learned about the possibility to access bucha, we immediately reached out to international institutions, including international criminal court. we invited them to send prosecutors, to send independent observers who could fix... who could gather, collect this evidence. we also allowed foreign journalists to come in and see with their own eyes and to report everything to international audiences. and we are also ready to set up a joint investigation team that will bring together all countries willing to investigate these cases according to their jurisdiction. this is a war — we speak in the context of a war. your president zelensky has said that he has no doubt,

he is absolutely committed to bringing all those responsible for what you call these atrocities, in fact i think you've used the word genocide, bringing all those responsible to justice. do you really believe that's going to be possible? yes, what we've seen in recent weeks proves that russia is much worse than isis when it comes to its atrocities and massacres. the bucha massacre isjust the name of one city, but there are more villages and towns. we know the military units which had been stationed in those, in every ukrainian village and town where cases of war crimes were committed. sometimes, in most of the cases, international justice is slow. but we will work in a very

diligent way to reach everyone who not only penetrated this, er, perpetrated these crimes, but also ordered them or ignored them while they were committed. and also, the political leadership of russia that made all this possible by sending russian army into ukraine and dehumanising ukrainians in the eyes of the russian soldiers who committed all these crimes. minister, i'm going to ask you one question. i hope you don't take it the wrong way, but it seems to me it's important to set a context for what you have described as happening in bucha and other communities close to kyiv. i am mindful that the ukrainian parliament passed legislation earlier in this war authorising all ukrainians, giving them the right to kill members of the russian military. also, the context in which you distributed arms very

widely to civilians, and you told all ukrainian males between the ages of 18—60 to stay and fight and join the resistance against russia. do you think that context has anything to do with the way russian forces, you say, behaved in towns like bucha? i hope you're not... you are asking this question without trying to draw a parallel between the behaviour of the country that is defending itself, and the country that attacked ukraine without any legitimate reason. we gave weapons to every man who was ready to stand up for his country and for his relatives with only one purpose — to prevent these crimes from being committed. we do not have a single report of any ukrainian civilian attacking, torturing russian soldiers in bucha or in other towns and villages.

these were peaceful towns, upper—middle—class... bucha is — you have to understand, bucha is an upper—middle—class suburb of kyiv. these people lived normal, quiet lives there. many left the city, the town in the first days, seeing the approaching russian army. those who stayed, they posed no resistance, no threat to the russian army. everything that was done in bucha was done on purpose and without any justified reason. does it seem to you that what you have found in bucha and in a couple of other communities already, close to kyiv, does it seem to you that this changes anything deep and significant in the war that you are engaged in?

as you've just said to me, mariupol has been bombarded for many, many days. hundreds and hundreds of ukrainian civilians have already lost their lives. but do you think this set of incidents might change anything? the bucha massacre should remove any kind of hesitation and reluctance in the west to provide ukraine with all necessary weapons, including planes, tanks, multiple—launch rocket systems and armoured vehicles to defend our country and to free it from russian occupants. and the same goes for sanctions. if any one of my colleagues from europe or across the ocean tries to tell me that some sanctions are inappropriate or are too tough and shouldn't be imposed, i will consider it as a betrayal of the victims

of bucha and other towns and villages�* civilians who had been killed. so the bucha massacre is a game—changer in the way the west should continue supporting ukraine. seems like there's anger in you now, foreign minister. i notice on twitter, you put out a video saying to allies, "if you do not provide us with the weapons now, you share responsibility for the bucha massacre and for all the other crimes committed by russia in occupied territory. " do you really mean that? you are now accusing some, even who say they are allies of yours, of potential complicity? i am serious. i do appreciate everything that has been done by our partners, and some of them did more than they themselves could imagine before the war had started. i'm grateful with all of my heart.

but as the war goes on and as they realise that many more villages and towns of ukraine in different parts of the country remained under the force, under the russian force, and we don't know what is happening there. i do not accept any half measures. we are not asking for anything extraordinary. we're just asking to provide us with everything that we need to liberate our country, to prevent more russian crimes, and to save the lives of civilians. what messages are you getting right now, foreign minister? you're in warsaw. you're talking to counterparts from different parts of europe right now. we see, for example, that germany, apparently,

is still not prepared to send tanks or armoured vehicles to you in ukraine — that's just one example. are you still fearing, as you said a few weeks ago, that you felt that there was some sort of fatigue among some of your allies, and they were not prepared to step up and help in the ways you needed? do you still feel that? this week will show whether the victims of bucha mean anything, because it is during this week that the new package of eu sanctions will be considered and g7 ministers, foreign ministers will be holding their meeting to agree on the next round of sanctions and also the nato foreign ministers�* ministerial will be taking place. so in a couple of days, we will see whether the message has been heard. but i want to make it clear again, we are grateful, but i know what i'm talking about. for a number of weeks, i have been hearing from some countries that ukrainians, we cannot give you tanks because tanks is not a defensive weapon. and my point is simple —

any weapon used by ukrainian army in the territory of ukraine is defensive by definition. so please, i cannot hear all this excuses any more. we need action to stop the war, to win the war, to liberate territories, and to save people's lives. on a point of detail, then, on the question of weapons supply, you've described it as a "mystery" as to why you have not received the warplanes that you'd hoped to get. mig planes from poland were promised but didn't come. have you, in the last 2a hours, had any indication that that might change? at this point, i will not disclose the outcomes of my talks, neither with poland nor with any other country, but we are in progress of making decisions on a number of accounts. and it's not only about migs and poland. in fact, we need bombers. mig is a fighting jet, but we need bombers, combat planes, to hit russian

tank columns on the ground. but again, as i said, bucha massacre must be a game changer in the attitude towards the supply of weapons and new, stiff sanctions against russia. we'll get to sanctions in a sec. one more question on arms, on weapons supply. you have said again, quote, "what else does russia have to do for everyone to understand that they've already reached the peak of escalation?" i put it to you, foreign minister, that that's not strictly true, is it? i mean, russia hasn't done some things yet which it could do, and which nato is clearly fearful of, and that includes nuclear options and other weapons of mass destruction options. i mean, there are ways putin could escalate further, and that's what nato continues to be fearful of. before 2a february, when russia attacked ukraine, again, i've been hearing this

argument for months and years. "let's not do this in order not to provoke putin to escalate." this was the official western policy. "let's not do this or that so that putin doesn't escalate." where did we end up? ukrainian cities are being bombed. every day, missiles are being shot at various targets across the territory of ukraine. hundreds of civilians killed, tortured, raped. economy is being destroyed, economy of ukraine. so the entire logic of, "let's not do this in order not to provoke russia," is failed. it's flawed logic. so if anyone continues to think this way, then they're just helping russia to win the war. this is it. we can keep asking these

questions endlessly, but everything, everything that preceded 2a february failed. it didn't work. maybe it's time to change the strategy and the line of thinking. right, well, let's pursue that, then, and move on from arms supplies to sanctions. you've mentioned them already. it seems to me there are several key areas where you've demanded movement and not got it. you want a complete embargo on buying russian oil and gas to cut off the money machine that putin has with his fossil fuels. you want a complete, swift ban to exclude all russian banks, including the biggest that do the oil transactions and the gas transactions, from the international financial system. you want all ports, as i understand it, in europe, blocked in terms of access for russian vessels. and you want corporates, western corporates to truly stop operating in russia. on all of those different demands, you haven't got what you wanted. how does that make you feel?

it feels... i feel responsibility before the people of ukraine. i am foreign minister of the country that is sacrificing itself on the front line. and when i cannot make my colleagues from european countries, and when it comes to certain sanctions, also from the united states, to impose those sanctions, ifeel sorry because it's me who hasn't done, who cannot convince them to do it, and therefore more ukrainians have to die. i have heard hundreds of words of sympathy and admiration coming from partners in the last weeks since the war started. but i'm ready to exchange every word of sympathy and admiration for a tank or a plane that will help me, or an embargo on gas and oil that will help me to save human lives in ukraine. foreign minister, not only

are your specific demands not being met in several key areas, which i've just outlined, but it also seems that some people in europe are simply not as sympathetic to ukraine as you would like them to be. i'm thinking in particular of what we've just seen in hungary, which, of course, is a member of the eu and nato, but also in neighbouring serbia as well, where two elections have been held. and frankly, in both elections, the victors have, to put it mildly, not been altogether friendly and proactively supporting ukraine, and have expressed sympathies with russia. how does that make you feel, particularly in the case of mr orban returning to power in hungary? well, president putin was one of the first, if not the first leader of another country who congratulated prime minister orban with victory in elections. i believe this fact speaks for itself.

but hungary is a member of nato. hungary is an eu member, too, so decisions on sanctions, decisions on weapons, depend on them as well. and we will follow closely how they approach these issues. it's important to understand that some leaders in europe and some politicians in europe still believe that this is just the ukrainian problem. but this is not. this is the european problem. the dark times are back in europe, and if putin is not stopped in ukraine, ukraine will only be the beginning of a much darker tragedy. you're ukraine's chief diplomat. where do you go from here, mr kuleba? for example, going forward, are you prepared, as you did last month, to meet face—to—face with your counterpart from russia, sergei lavrov, given everything you've said to me today about what you believe russia

has been doing in your country? well, this is thejob of a diplomat, to set emotions aside and to seek solutions to the war. we cannot escape geography. russia will stay where it is and we have to look for sustainable solutions when it comes to peace and security guarantees for ukraine. but how can anything be meaningful or sustainable when you, in this interview with me, have described russian forces as rapists, as murderers? you have said they are worse than isis. and in a speech yesterday, president zelensky addressed directly russian mothers and said, "how could you? how could you not know that your sons were involved in these crimes?" and russia, he said, will be tainted for many generations by what has happened. in all of that context, all of the tone and the language you are using, how can we take

seriously the notion of any diplomatic process between you and the russians? well, as i said before, russia is fully... russian officials are aware of the aggressive nature of the war that their country launched, about the criminal behaviour of its soldiers in ukraine, and whatever minister lavrov says, he knows the truth. he knows that he's lying and he knows that his army committed atrocities in ukraine. the last time we met in antalya, in turkey, we both arrived there knowing where our countries stand, and yet we spoke because we have to seek a sustainable solution. this doesn't mean, in no way, that i personally, or my country, will forgive russia or excuse its leaders

and decision makers. but is it possible — sorry to interrupt, but is it possible to label your counterparts, ie the enemy in moscow, as worse than isis, as terrorists, and then say, "ah, but we're offering a deal where we'll be neutral, we won'tjoin nato. we'll sit down and discuss the future of the donbas. we'll have a 15—year process to discuss the status of crimea." you know, it seems like all of that diplomacy is simply fantasy and that what you're now involved in is an existential struggle where the you either win on the battlefield or you lose, but there doesn't appear to be a diplomacy. you are absolutely right, the future of this war will be decided on the front line, on the battleground, and also in those offices in europe and north america where decisions on sanctions

and the supply of weapons will be taken. i have to admit that diplomacy under these circumstances is not the central pillar of the peace settlement, of the peace process. we have to win peace on the battleground. this is true. but every war, every single war in the human history ended up with an agreement, and we have to understand what the basic parameters of this agreement will be. a final question. do you feel, as ukraine, do you feel more or less alone today than you felt after the first, say, week of this war? no, we do not feel alone. moreover, we did feel... we did feel alone in 2014. this is the fact. but we don't feel alone now. the only thing that we're asking for from our partners is to set all hesitation, all reluctance, all business

considerations aside and to focus on saving human lives and on saving security in europe by helping ukraine. dmytro kuleba, i thank you very much indeed forjoining me on hardtalk from warsaw. thank you. hello. the weather looked very different between the top and tail of the uk on tuesday. across england and wales, the sun came out for many. and in the sunshine, temperatures got up into the low to mid teens.

this was the isle of wight tuesday afternoon. here we are, though, in aberdeenshire tuesday afternoon, a very different picture — some fresh snowfall, temperatures barely scratching above freezing. arctic air to the north of the uk. to the south, atlantic air. the two mixing out towards the west, with this occlusion turning back behind an area of low pressure. slightly cooler air flooding in to all parts of the uk on wednesday. relatively milder air, though, just pushing into the far north of scotland. but that big area of low pressure does mean, for all areas, it's going to be windy and there will be some bands of punchy showers marching through. but we've lost the snow from northern scotland, the cold air really confined to the northern isles, but mostly rain that we'll be seeing here. further south, some good spells of sunshine between the showers, but when the showers push through, they possibly could be accompanied by some hail, thunder and lightning. temperatures down a couple of degrees on tuesday. it was a very mild start to the week. wednesday into thursday,

we start to pull colder air in, though, to the north of our area of low pressure once again. and through wednesday evening, but particularly overnight into thursday, the colder air mixes in with our weather fronts. and it looks like we could see some significant snow for northern scotland once again. a risk of ice here for first thing thursday, certainly, and potentially that wintry weather affecting the central belt of scotland through the morning rush hour. we will see the showers thinning out as they sink south through the course of the day, but still the chance of a wintry element across the pennines into thursday afternoon. sunshine for many come thursday afternoon, but it will feel chillier, especially in contrast to the start of the week. and then cold air right the way across the uk for friday. i think there will be quite a bit of sunshine, some wintry showers in the north and east. biggest question mark — what this area of low pressure deepening to the south of the uk will do. at the moment, it looks like it will slide in to the continent, bringing some very wet and windy weather to northern france. but it also looks like it could bring some very wet weather to the south coast of the uk and be accompanied by strong winds. if it pushes a little

further north, there's just the question about whether it will bring something more wintry. stay tuned.

welcome to newsday, reporting live from singapore, i'm karishma vaswani. the headlines... the ukraine war: we visit the scenes of devastation in borodyanka near the capital kyiv, after it was targeted by russian missiles. under the laws of war, killing civilians and wanton destruction are both crimes unless it can somehow be proved that that was a military target. in the town of bucha, also near kyiv, satellite images show streets littered with bodies. president zelensky says russia is committing war crimes. at the united nations, the ukrainian leader's allegations are dismissed by russia.

translation: the massacre in our city of bucha is only i