hello, i'm shaun ley. welcome to the programme which brings together leading uk columnists and the foreign correspondents who write, blog and broadcast to audiences in their own countries from the dateline: london. in the studio today are agnes poirier of the french news magazine and website marianne, michael goldfarb, former foreign correspondent with us public radio, now host of the frdh podcast — that's the first rough draft of history — catherine pepinster is a former editor of the catholic newspaper the tablet, and writes in british newspapers on politics, religion and ethics.

a "fratricidal war" is how a group of dissenting priests from the russian orthodox church describe their country's invasion of ukraine. it could wreck the spiritual ambition of kirill, patriarch of moscow and all russia, to reunite the church in the two countries, just as it could wreck the political ambition of his sponsor, vladimir putin. on the other side of the continent in france, a country which used the blade of a guillotine to eviscerate the divine right of kings along with the religion that sustained it, political parties — broad churches during the 20th century — lack believers. and what faith should the british place in a prime minister determined by the police to have broken his own covid law? catherine, lets start with what is happening in ukraine. how big a strain is this putting on the

orthodox church in particular, and those 90 odd million orthodox christians? it those 90 odd million orthodox christians?— christians? it is a big strain. it is particularly _ christians? it is a big strain. it is particularly putting - christians? it is a big strain. it is particularly putting strain i christians? it is a big strain. it| is particularly putting strain on members of the orthodox church in ukraine itself, already there is an independent ukrainian 0rthodox independent ukrainian orthodox church, and now we are seeing more and more priests who have felt so torn between their country and the russian orthodox church led by patriarch kirill, they feel that what he has been doing, endorsing the war, effectively blessing it, making it a holy war, is completely unacceptable and they are also talking about splitting. i read something today from a theologian in ukraine who suggested that as many as half of the 12,000 parishes of the russian orthodox church in ukraine could break away, so this is

really significant. there are also some priests in russia itself who have started to be more and more anxious about what is happening, but for them you can imagine it's extremely tough to speak out, and we are also seeing breakaways as well elsewhere. the russian orthodox church in amsterdam, for example, has decided it will break away from moscow. ., , ., ., ., , has decided it will break away from moscow. ., ., ,, ., moscow. how important has russian orthodoxy been _ moscow. how important has russian orthodoxy been to _ moscow. how important has russian orthodoxy been to the _ moscow. how important has russian orthodoxy been to the narrative - moscow. how important has russian orthodoxy been to the narrative that 0rthodoxy been to the narrative that president putin is trying to construct?— president putin is trying to construct? �* , . , , construct? it's a very interesting cuestion. construct? it's a very interesting question. despite _ construct? it's a very interesting question. despite the _ construct? it's a very interesting question. despite the 50 - construct? it's a very interesting question. despite the 50 years | construct? it's a very interesting - question. despite the 50 years when stalin_ question. despite the 50 years when stalin effectively made russia an atheist _ stalin effectively made russia an atheist state, it doesn't go away. the russian orthodox church has always _ the russian orthodox church has always been a political player within — always been a political player within russian society. and unlike in france — within russian society. and unlike in france or— within russian society. and unlike in france or in the us or even in

the uk, — in france or in the us or even in the uk, the— in france or in the us or even in the uk, the separation never really happened. — the uk, the separation never really happened, and it's really interesting. vladimir putin was baptised — interesting. vladimir putin was baptised as a boy and his dad was a member_ baptised as a boy and his dad was a member of— baptised as a boy and his dad was a member of the communist party, so that really— member of the communist party, so that really is something, and the priest _ that really is something, and the priest who— that really is something, and the priest who officiated his baptism was kirill's father, so they have a very close — was kirill's father, so they have a very close connection, and they share _ very close connection, and they share a — very close connection, and they share a worldview. the russians as i understand — share a worldview. the russians as i understand it, and i have actually gone _ understand it, and i have actually gone to— understand it, and i have actually gone to services in a cemetery where there _ gone to services in a cemetery where there is— gone to services in a cemetery where there is a _ gone to services in a cemetery where there is a wonderful monastery, and i there is a wonderful monastery, and i want _ there is a wonderful monastery, and i want to— there is a wonderful monastery, and i want to tell you, this site in iraq, — i want to tell you, this site in iraq, i— i want to tell you, this site in iraq. i have _ i want to tell you, this site in iraq, i have never encountered faith of that— iraq, i have never encountered faith of that intensity, iran, rather, but that said — of that intensity, iran, rather, but that said those kinds of worshippers are thin _ that said those kinds of worshippers are thin on — that said those kinds of worshippers are thin on the ground, however, russian _ are thin on the ground, however, russian orthodoxy is like an essential strand of russian culture and political life and essentially always — and political life and essentially always has been, and i think that this is— always has been, and i think that this is why— always has been, and i think that this is why this combination of

kiriii— this is why this combination of kiriii and — this is why this combination of kirill and putin, with a very similar— kirill and putin, with a very similar worldview, kirill and putin, with a very similarworldview, has kirill and putin, with a very similar worldview, has so much power at the _ similar worldview, has so much power at the moment and can motivate a country— at the moment and can motivate a country into — at the moment and can motivate a country into this war. it�*s country into this war. it's interesting _ country into this war. it's interesting that - country into this war. it's interesting that you - country into this war. it�*s interesting that you mention how things used to be with stalin because of course he tried to really destroy orthodoxy, but then he changed his mind and started to realise the youth the —— the usefulness of orthodoxy, and it is as if putin has spotted that earlier than stalin did. but as if putin has spotted that earlier than stalin did.— than stalin did. but in russia, the church and _ than stalin did. but in russia, the church and the _ than stalin did. but in russia, the church and the military _ than stalin did. but in russia, the church and the military have - than stalin did. but in russia, the i church and the military have always been _ church and the military have always been hand—in—hand. _ church and the military have always been hand—in—hand. i— church and the military have always been hand—in—hand. i looked - church and the military have always been hand—in—hand. i looked at- church and the military have always been hand—in—hand. i looked at anl been hand—in—hand. i looked at an interview— been hand—in—hand. i looked at an interview of — been hand—in—hand. i looked at an interview of putin _ been hand—in—hand. i looked at an interview of putin a _ been hand—in—hand. i looked at an interview of putin a few— been hand—in—hand. i looked at an interview of putin a few years - been hand—in—hand. i looked at an interview of putin a few years backi interview of putin a few years back when _ interview of putin a few years back when he _ interview of putin a few years back when he said — interview of putin a few years back when he said that _ interview of putin a few years back when he said that the _ interview of putin a few years back when he said that the nuclear- when he said that the nuclear weapons _ when he said that the nuclear weapons armament - when he said that the nuclear weapons armament and - when he said that the nuclear- weapons armament and orthodoxy when he said that the nuclear— weapons armament and orthodoxy were the two _ weapons armament and orthodoxy were the two pillars— weapons armament and orthodoxy were the two pillars of— weapons armament and orthodoxy were the two pillars of national— weapons armament and orthodoxy were the two pillars of national russian - the two pillars of national russian identity. — the two pillars of national russian identity. and _ the two pillars of national russian identity, and of— the two pillars of national russian identity, and of course _ the two pillars of national russian identity, and of course he - the two pillars of national russian identity, and of course he was - identity, and of course he was secretly — identity, and of course he was secretly baptised, _

identity, and of course he was secretly baptised, and - identity, and of course he was secretly baptised, and also i identity, and of course he was secretly baptised, and also he identity, and of course he was - secretly baptised, and also he built thousands— secretly baptised, and also he built thousands of— secretly baptised, and also he built thousands of churches _ secretly baptised, and also he built thousands of churches in _ secretly baptised, and also he built thousands of churches in the - secretly baptised, and also he built thousands of churches in the last . thousands of churches in the last ten years— thousands of churches in the last ten years or— thousands of churches in the last ten years or so, _ thousands of churches in the last ten years or so, are _ thousands of churches in the last ten years or so, are not- thousands of churches in the last ten years or so, are not only- thousands of churches in the last ten years or so, are not only in l ten years or so, are not only in russia — ten years or so, are not only in russia but— ten years or so, are not only in russia but abroad. _ ten years or so, are not only in russia but abroad. i— ten years or so, are not only in russia but abroad. i mean, - russia but abroad. i mean, orthodoxy, _ russia but abroad. i mean, orthodoxy, the _ russia but abroad. i mean, orthodoxy, the russian - russia but abroad. i mean, . orthodoxy, the russian kind, russia but abroad. i mean, - orthodoxy, the russian kind, is a tool of— orthodoxy, the russian kind, is a tool of foreign _ orthodoxy, the russian kind, is a tool of foreign policy. _ orthodoxy, the russian kind, is a tool of foreign policy. you - orthodoxy, the russian kind, is a tool of foreign policy. you only. tool of foreign policy. you only have _ tool of foreign policy. you only have to — tool of foreign policy. you only have to go _ tool of foreign policy. you only have to go to _ tool of foreign policy. you only have to go to paris _ tool of foreign policy. you only have to go to paris on - tool of foreign policy. you only have to go to paris on the - tool of foreign policy. you onlyi have to go to paris on the river bank— have to go to paris on the river bank and — have to go to paris on the river bank and there _ have to go to paris on the river bank and there is _ have to go to paris on the river bank and there is this - have to go to paris on the riveri bank and there is this beautiful 0rthodox— bank and there is this beautiful orthodox church. _ bank and there is this beautiful orthodox church. 50 _ bank and there is this beautiful orthodox church.— bank and there is this beautiful orthodox church. so it's part of putin's soft _ orthodox church. so it's part of putin's soft power? _ orthodox church. so it's part of| putin's soft power? completely, orthodox church. so it's part of- putin's soft power? completely, but also... i putin's soft power? completely, but atso--- ithink— putin's soft power? completely, but also... | think it— putin's soft power? completely, but also... i think it is— putin's soft power? completely, but also... i think it is three _ putin's soft power? completely, but also... i think it is three quarters i also... i think it is three quarters of russians— also... i think it is three quarters of russians who _ also... i think it is three quarters of russians who identify- also... i think it is three quarters of russians who identify as - of russians who identify as orthodox _ of russians who identify as orthodox. it _ of russians who identify as orthodox. it is _ of russians who identify as orthodox. it is part- of russians who identify as orthodox. it is part of- of russians who identify as orthodox. it is part of not. of russians who identify as i orthodox. it is part of not only of russians who identify as - orthodox. it is part of not only the national— orthodox. it is part of not only the national narrative, _ orthodox. it is part of not only the national narrative, but _ orthodox. it is part of not only the national narrative, but it - orthodox. it is part of not only the national narrative, but it is- orthodox. it is part of not only the national narrative, but it is a - orthodox. it is part of not only the national narrative, but it is a veryl national narrative, but it is a very conservative _ national narrative, but it is a very conservative tool _ national narrative, but it is a very conservative tool within - national narrative, but it is a very conservative tool within russian i conservative tool within russian society — conservative tool within russian socie . ~ . conservative tool within russian socie . ~ , ., society. when i visited moscow a few ears a . o i society. when i visited moscow a few years ago i was _ society. when i visited moscow a few years ago i was struck _ society. when i visited moscow a few years ago i was struck by _ society. when i visited moscow a few years ago i was struck by the - society. when i visited moscow a few years ago i was struck by the return i years ago i was struck by the return of the icons to the church, that always felt like a political

statement as well, that kind of almost autocratic leadership, something of value politically. find something of value politically. and ou can something of value politically. and you can now _ something of value politically. fific you can now visit the something of value politically. fific you can now visit the shrines to something of value politically. elic you can now visit the shrines to the roman ofs in saint petersburg, they have been consecrated as saints by the orthodox church. it have been consecrated as saints by the orthodox church.— the orthodox church. it was really interesting. _ the orthodox church. it was really interesting, in _ the orthodox church. it was really interesting, in that _ the orthodox church. it was really interesting, in that service - the orthodox church. it was really interesting, in that service at - the orthodox church. it was really interesting, in that service at the | interesting, in that service at the monastery, the priest went to the back room. — monastery, the priest went to the back room, you could hear them singing — back room, you could hear them singing and doing whatever they do, and the _ singing and doing whatever they do, and the ordinary people are just making — and the ordinary people are just making a — and the ordinary people are just making a circuit of the icons and crossing — making a circuit of the icons and crossing themselves, and the actual heavy _ crossing themselves, and the actual heavy lifting is being done in secret, — heavy lifting is being done in secret, is— heavy lifting is being done in secret, is if behind the kremlin waits. — secret, is if behind the kremlin walls, except it's on the back room of this— walls, except it's on the back room of this church. it's interesting, the power— of this church. it's interesting, the power being used for propaganda purposes. _ the power being used for propaganda purposes, but i double and triple checked, — purposes, but i double and triple checked, it's online, so you can be sure? _ checked, it's online, so you can be sure? a _ checked, it's online, so you can be sure? a website two years ago, they

noted _ sure? a website two years ago, they noted that— sure? a website two years ago, they noted that on this cruiser which 'ust noted that on this cruiser which just sank— noted that on this cruiser which just sank on the black sea, they had a golden— just sank on the black sea, they had a golden cross and embedded in that golden— a golden cross and embedded in that golden cross was a sliver of the true _ golden cross was a sliver of the true cross _ golden cross was a sliver of the true cross. this was on the website, so i true cross. this was on the website, so i will— true cross. this was on the website, so i will say— true cross. this was on the website, so i will say take it with a grain of salt. — so i will say take it with a grain of salt. but— so i will say take it with a grain of salt, but nevertheless the idea that in_ of salt, but nevertheless the idea that in the — of salt, but nevertheless the idea that in the 215t—century you would put this— that in the 215t—century you would put this to — that in the 215t—century you would put this to your people, that a piece — put this to your people, that a piece of— put this to your people, that a piece of the true cross is on our flagship — piece of the true cross is on our flagship in — piece of the true cross is on our flagship in the black sea is to me astonishing. the flagship in the black sea is to me astonishing-— flagship in the black sea is to me astonishin.. ., . , ., . astonishing. the patriarch is a nice two iece astonishing. the patriarch is a nice two piece of _ astonishing. the patriarch is a nice two piece of work. _ astonishing. the patriarch is a nice two piece of work. he _ astonishing. the patriarch is a nice two piece of work. he let - astonishing. the patriarch is a nice two piece of work. he let his - two piece of work. he let his priests— two piece of work. he let his priests bless— two piece of work. he let his priests bless the _ two piece of work. he let his priests bless the bombs - two piece of work. he let his priests bless the bombs in. two piece of work. he let his i priests bless the bombs in syria two piece of work. he let his - priests bless the bombs in syria and crimea _ priests bless the bombs in syria and crimea -- — priests bless the bombs in syria and crimea -- nasty _ priests bless the bombs in syria and crimea. —— nasty. so— priests bless the bombs in syria and crimea. —— nasty. so obviously- priests bless the bombs in syria and crimea. —— nasty. so obviously it. crimea. —— nasty. so obviously it was— crimea. —— nasty. so obviously it was not — crimea. —— nasty. so obviously it was not strong _ crimea. —— nasty. so obviously it was not strong enough _ crimea. —— nasty. so obviously it was not strong enough for- crimea. —— nasty. so obviously it was not strong enough for the i was not strong enough for the flagship. _ was not strong enough for the flagship. their— was not strong enough for the flagship, their prayers. - was not strong enough for the flagship, their prayers. catherine, it's interesting _ flagship, their prayers. catherine, it's interesting that _ flagship, their prayers. catherine, it's interesting that kirill's - flagship, their prayers. catherine, it's interesting that kirill's title i it's interesting that kirill's title is the patriarch of moscow and all of russia. he happens to be the

cartographer both by training and profession before he became a priest. is there a kind of almost territorial claim built into that title? i territorial claim built into that title? 4' , ~ title? i think there is. i think there is a— title? ithink there is. ithink there is a sense _ title? ithink there is. ithink there is a sense in _ title? ithink there is. ithink there is a sense in which i title? ithink there is. ithink there is a sense in which he | title? ithinkthere is. | think. there is a sense in which he and others in the russian orthodox church c ukraine, belarus, russia as part of one holy place and that they belong to one another. they talk sometimes about ukraine being a little russia, as if it is the little russia, as if it is the little brother. and there is a way almost, the opponents of the war also talk about fraternity, they talk about the fratricidal war, there is a closeness between the two countries, there is proximity, but it is how you express that. what countries, there is proximity, but it is how you express that. what is interesting — it is how you express that. what is interesting is _ it is how you express that. what is interesting is that _ it is how you express that. what is interesting is that my _ it is how you express that. what is interesting is that my two - it is how you express that. what is | interesting is that my two reporting trips in_

interesting is that my two reporting trips in ukraine were mostly focused in lviv— trips in ukraine were mostly focused in lviv and _ trips in ukraine were mostly focused in lviv and odesa but this is the stronghold of the ukrainian catholic church, _ stronghold of the ukrainian catholic church, not aligned at all with orthodoxy but with the roman church. before _ orthodoxy but with the roman church. before it _ orthodoxy but with the roman church. before it was never part of russia, it was _ before it was never part of russia, it was part — before it was never part of russia, it was part of the polish lithuanian commonwealth and the austro—hungarian empire, it is not so simple — austro—hungarian empire, it is not so simple inside ukraine, it is not a uni— so simple inside ukraine, it is not a uni sectarian place where nationalism intervenes and the russian — nationalism intervenes and the russian orthodox is a bigger brother, _ russian orthodox is a bigger brother, it's a much more complicated mix of christian churches, really, sects. one last thou:ht churches, really, sects. one last thought for— churches, really, sects. one last thought for all _ churches, really, sects. one last thought for all of _ churches, really, sects. one last thought for all of you, _ churches, really, sects. one last thought for all of you, we i churches, really, sects. one last thought for all of you, we will i thought for all of you, we will leave the polish lithuanian commonwealth, although if anyone is interested in that, bbc sounds has a great programme on exactly that subject and it's a really interesting history for those who wonder about democratic powers and

consent of the people going back into the middle ages, but in terms of the roman catholic church, pope francis spoke out, easter weekend for the non—orthodox easter weekend, the orthodox easter is next weekend, but he spoke out on good friday and made a pointed statement, catherine, about the right of people under threat to defend themselves. it can't be a coincidence that he should choose to deliver that message this weekend in the middle of the war in ukraine.— of the war in ukraine. absolutely not and i'm _ of the war in ukraine. absolutely not and i'm sure _ of the war in ukraine. absolutely not and i'm sure we _ of the war in ukraine. absolutely not and i'm sure we will - of the war in ukraine. absolutely not and i'm sure we will hear i of the war in ukraine. absolutely i not and i'm sure we will hear more from him this weekend during his annual statement he makes to the city of the world from the balcony of saint peter's. he will speak about ukraine, i'm sure, but what you have to remember is he will make statements to the world, he is trying to be i guess seen as a

peacemaker, but behind—the—scenes there is also vatican diplomacy going on, and he has the secretary of state and another archbishop will be working, and i know that they have, talking to russian politicians and ministers and also talking to kirill and his people too, so it's a two—pronged thing, and there are various suggestions about the pope going to see kirill at some point, they have talked about him going to moscow and about him meeting in jerusalem, about him going to poland, so there are discussions going on about an encounter. the church's diplomatic network is very alive at the moment.— alive at the moment. absolutely, this was an _ alive at the moment. absolutely, this was an unprecedented i alive at the moment. absolutely, this was an unprecedented thing, pope francis went to the russian embassy early on in the war to express his displeasure at what was going on. express his displeasure at what was aroin on. �* . express his displeasure at what was aroin on. v . .. express his displeasure at what was aoian on. v ., ~' ., express his displeasure at what was aoain on. v ., ~' ., ., going on. let's talk about the other bia news going on. let's talk about the other big news this _ going on. let's talk about the other big news this week, _ going on. let's talk about the other big news this week, which -

going on. let's talk about the other big news this week, which was i going on. let's talk about the other big news this week, which was the l big news this week, which was the french presidential election, round one, and marine le pen and emmanuel macron the obvious winners, the losers shall include the two parties that used to provide the president of the republic certainly since the change of the constitution back in the early 60s, what they call the republicans. their performance, not to put too fine a point on it, was pathetic, less than 6% between them of those who voted, they were brought churches with huge numbers of faithful, what happened? timer;r of faithful, what happened? they have collapsed _ of faithful, what happened? they have collapsed and _ of faithful, what happened? they have collapsed and disappeared and i don't think— have collapsed and disappeared and i don't think they— have collapsed and disappeared and i don't think they will _ have collapsed and disappeared and i don't think they will come _ have collapsed and disappeared and i don't think they will come back. i have collapsed and disappeared and i don't think they will come back. ethyl don't think they will come back. why have the don't think they will come back. have they collapsed? don't think they will come back. why have they collapsed? it's _ don't think they will come back. why have they collapsed? it's a _ don't think they will come back. why have they collapsed? it's a long i have they collapsed? it's a long sto that have they collapsed? it's a long story that started _ have they collapsed? it's a long story that started with - have they collapsed? it's a long story that started with the i have they collapsed? it's a long i story that started with the eruption of the _ story that started with the eruption of the political— story that started with the eruption of the political scene _ story that started with the eruption of the political scene in _ story that started with the eruption of the political scene in france i story that started with the eruption of the political scene in france of. of the political scene in france of the nationai— of the political scene in france of the national front, _ of the political scene in france of the national front, and _

of the political scene in france of the national front, and the - of the political scene in france of the national front, and the pen l of the political scene in france of. the national front, and the pen was allowed _ the national front, and the pen was allowed in _ the national front, and the pen was allowed in a — the national front, and the pen was allowed in a way _ the national front, and the pen was allowed in a way to _ the national front, and the pen was allowed in a way to have _ the national front, and the pen was allowed in a way to have a - the national front, and the pen was allowed in a way to have a voice i allowed in a way to have a voice because — allowed in a way to have a voice because of— allowed in a way to have a voice because of the _ allowed in a way to have a voice because of the change - allowed in a way to have a voice because of the change in- allowed in a way to have a voice because of the change in voting| because of the change in voting system — because of the change in voting system by— because of the change in voting system by the _ because of the change in voting system by the socialist - because of the change in voting . system by the socialist president. because of the change in voting i system by the socialist president. i remember— system by the socialist president. i remember it— system by the socialist president. i remember it very _ system by the socialist president. i remember it very well, _ system by the socialist president. i remember it very well, i _ system by the socialist president. i remember it very well, i was - system by the socialist president. i remember it very well, i was a i remember it very well, i was a teenager— remember it very well, i was a teenager when— remember it very well, i was a teenager when the _ remember it very well, i was a teenager when the national. remember it very well, i was a i teenager when the national front remember it very well, i was a - teenager when the national front got 35 mps— teenager when the national front got 35 mps in_ teenager when the national front got 35 mps in the — teenager when the national front got 35 mps in the national— teenager when the national front got 35 mps in the national assembly, i teenager when the national front goti 35 mps in the national assembly, and instead _ 35 mps in the national assembly, and instead of— 35 mps in the national assembly, and instead of trying — 35 mps in the national assembly, and instead of trying to _ 35 mps in the national assembly, and instead of trying to find _ 35 mps in the national assembly, and instead of trying to find out _ 35 mps in the national assembly, and instead of trying to find out what i instead of trying to find out what it meant — instead of trying to find out what it meant and _ instead of trying to find out what it meant and perhaps _ instead of trying to find out what it meant and perhaps grapple i instead of trying to find out what. it meant and perhaps grapple with the issue. — it meant and perhaps grapple with the issue, because _ it meant and perhaps grapple with the issue, because it— it meant and perhaps grapple with the issue, because it was- it meant and perhaps grapple with the issue, because it was also i it meant and perhaps grapple with the issue, because it was also the| the issue, because it was also the eruption _ the issue, because it was also the eruption of— the issue, because it was also the eruption of the _ the issue, because it was also the eruption of the second _ the issue, because it was also the eruption of the second generation the issue, because it was also the i eruption of the second generation of north— eruption of the second generation of north african — eruption of the second generation of north african immigrants _ eruption of the second generation of north african immigrants who - eruption of the second generation of north african immigrants who were i north african immigrants who were french, _ north african immigrants who were french, who — north african immigrants who were french, who are _ north african immigrants who were french, who are not _ north african immigrants who were french, who are not passing - french, who are not passing visitors, _ french, who are not passing visitors, who— french, who are not passing visitors, who wanted - french, who are not passing visitors, who wanted to i french, who are not passing visitors, who wanted to talk| french, who are not passing - visitors, who wanted to talk about racism _ visitors, who wanted to talk about racism and — visitors, who wanted to talk about racism and multiculturalism, i visitors, who wanted to talk about racism and multiculturalism, andl racism and multiculturalism, and jacques _ racism and multiculturalism, and jacques chirac. _ racism and multiculturalism, and jacques chirac, the _ racism and multiculturalism, and jacques chirac, the right—wing i jacques chirac, the right—wing president. _ jacques chirac, the right—wing president. or—

jacques chirac, the right—wing president, or prime _ jacques chirac, the right—wingl president, or prime minister... jacques chirac, the right—wing i president, or prime minister... hot president, or prime minister... not a marriage — president, or prime minister... a marriage made in heaven! president, or prime minister... not a marriage made in heaven! he i president, or prime minister... not| a marriage made in heaven! hejust a marriage made in heaven! he 'ust wanted to sweep i a marriage made in heaven! he 'ust wanted to sweep the i a marriage made in heaven! he 'ust wanted to sweep the far i a marriage made in heaven! he 'ust wanted to sweep the far right i wanted to sweep the far right problem _ wanted to sweep the far right problem under— wanted to sweep the far right problem under the _ wanted to sweep the far right problem under the carpet. i wanted to sweep the far right problem under the carpet. so wanted to sweep the far right i problem under the carpet. so they haven't_ problem under the carpet. so they haven't really— problem under the carpet. so they haven't really had _ problem under the carpet. so they haven't really had a _ problem under the carpet. so they haven't really had a voice, - problem under the carpet. so they haven't really had a voice, very i problem under the carpet. so theyl haven't really had a voice, very few mps want _ haven't really had a voice, very few mps want to, — haven't really had a voice, very few mps want to, but _ haven't really had a voice, very few mps want to, but the _ haven't really had a voice, very few mps want to, but the problem i haven't really had a voice, very few mps want to, but the problem hasl haven't really had a voice, very few. mps want to, but the problem has not left, and _ mps want to, but the problem has not left, and it— mps want to, but the problem has not left, and it is— mps want to, but the problem has not left, and it is the— mps want to, but the problem has not left, and it is the third _ mps want to, but the problem has not left, and it is the third time _ mps want to, but the problem has not left, and it is the third time that- left, and it is the third time that we are _ left, and it is the third time that we are faced _ left, and it is the third time that we are faced with _ left, and it is the third time that we are faced with this _ left, and it is the third time that we are faced with this very- left, and it is the third time thatj we are faced with this very stark choice _ we are faced with this very stark choice of— we are faced with this very stark choice of electing _ we are faced with this very stark choice of electing a _ we are faced with this very stark choice of electing a democrat, l choice of electing a democrat, whether— choice of electing a democrat, whether it's _ choice of electing a democrat, whether it's on _ choice of electing a democrat, whether it's on the _ choice of electing a democrat, whether it's on the right - choice of electing a democrat, whether it's on the right or- choice of electing a democrat, | whether it's on the right or left does _ whether it's on the right or left does not — whether it's on the right or left does not matter, _ whether it's on the right or left does not matter, and... - whether it's on the right or left does not matter, and... find. whether it's on the right or left does not matter, and. . .- does not matter, and... and a demagogue? _ does not matter, and... and a demagogue? exactly. - does not matter, and... and a demagogue? exactly. and i does not matter, and... and a| demagogue? exactly. and they does not matter, and... and a i demagogue? exactly. and they all does not matter, and... and a - demagogue? exactly. and they all had the same surname, _ demagogue? exactly. and they all had the same surname, this _ demagogue? exactly. and they all had the same surname, this is _ demagogue? exactly. and they all had the same surname, this is the - demagogue? exactly. and they all had the same surname, this is the fifth i the same surname, this is the fifth in 20 _ the same surname, this is the fifth in 20 years— the same surname, this is the fifth in 20 years and three of them have had somebody call le pen. and in 20 years and three of them have had somebody call le pen.- in 20 years and three of them have had somebody call le pen. and if she is elected, had somebody call le pen. and if she is elected. she _ had somebody call le pen. and if she is elected, she has _ had somebody call le pen. and if she is elected, she has already _ had somebody call le pen. and if she is elected, she has already said i had somebody call le pen. and if she is elected, she has already said to i is elected, she has already said to a belgian— is elected, she has already said to a belgian newspaper— is elected, she has already said to a belgian newspaper that- is elected, she has already said to a belgian newspaper that sean i is elected, she has already said to i a belgian newspaper that sean marie will be _ a belgian newspaper that sean marie will be at _ a belgian newspaper that sean marie will be at the — a belgian newspaper that sean marie will be at the el— a belgian newspaper that sean marie

will be at the el palace. _ a belgian newspaper that sean marie will be at the el palace. and - a belgian newspaper that sean marie will be at the el palace. and the - will be at the el palace. and the whole _ will be at the el palace. and the whole clan— will be at the el palace. and the whole clan of— will be at the el palace. and the whole clan of le _ will be at the el palace. and the whole clan of le pen _ will be at the el palace. and the whole clan of le pen will- will be at the el palace. and the whole clan of le pen will be - will be at the el palace. and the whole clan of le pen will be in l whole clan of le pen will be in power! — whole clan of le pen will be in power! if— whole clan of le pen will be in ower! ~ ., . ., whole clan of le pen will be in ower! �*.,. ., , whole clan of le pen will be in ower! ., , , _, power! if macron wins the second round next _ power! if macron wins the second round next month, _ power! if macron wins the second round next month, he _ power! if macron wins the second round next month, he cannot - power! if macron wins the second round next month, he cannot run | round next month, he cannot run again five years later. what happens then? because unless he will magic up then? because unless he will magic up some kind of success... this five ear up some kind of success... this five year timeline. _ up some kind of success... this five year timeline, three _ up some kind of success... this five year timeline, three years - up some kind of success... this five year timeline, three years ago - up some kind of success... this five year timeline, three years ago it. year timeline, three years ago it was covid — year timeline, three years ago it was covid and six months ago... i think— was covid and six months ago... i think five — was covid and six months ago... i think five years, that is the long run _ think five years, that is the long run look, — think five years, that is the long run~ look, i_ think five years, that is the long run. look, idon't think five years, that is the long run. look, i don't know. think five years, that is the long run. look, idon't know. i think five years, that is the long run. look, i don't know. ithink that_ run. look, idon't know. ithink that parties— run. look, i don't know. ithink that parties do revive. and i don't follow— that parties do revive. and i don't follow socialist politics in france

the way — follow socialist politics in france the way i — follow socialist politics in france the way i did when i was going over at the _ the way i did when i was going over at the very— the way i did when i was going over at the very end of the president's rule _ at the very end of the president's rule it— at the very end of the president's rule. it happens, but they also provide — rule. it happens, but they also provide a — rule. it happens, but they also provide a framework, starting something from scratch, which is happy— something from scratch, which is happy now. — something from scratch, which is happy now, emmanuel macron came up with nothing _ happy now, emmanuel macron came up with nothing and just invented a party, _ with nothing and just invented a party, and — with nothing and just invented a party, and that's unusual, and are not sure _ party, and that's unusual, and are not sure that is sustainable without a charismatic leader. it�*s not sure that is sustainable without a charismatic leader.— a charismatic leader. it's not sustainable _ a charismatic leader. it's not sustainable but _ a charismatic leader. it's not sustainable but the - a charismatic leader. it's not sustainable but the new - a charismatic leader. it's not - sustainable but the new generation of voters _ sustainable but the new generation of voters who — sustainable but the new generation of voters who are _ sustainable but the new generation of voters who are putting _ sustainable but the new generation of voters who are putting macron . of voters who are putting macron opposite — of voters who are putting macron opposite le — of voters who are putting macron opposite le peh— of voters who are putting macron opposite le pen are _ of voters who are putting macron opposite le pen are saying, - of voters who are putting macron opposite le pen are saying, we l of voters who are putting macron - opposite le pen are saying, we don't want to— opposite le pen are saying, we don't want to vote — opposite le pen are saying, we don't want to vote. and _ opposite le pen are saying, we don't want to vote. and they— opposite le pen are saying, we don't want to vote. and they are _ opposite le pen are saying, we don't want to vote. and they are playing. want to vote. and they are playing with fire, — want to vote. and they are playing with fire, certainly, _ want to vote. and they are playing with fire, certainly, but _ want to vote. and they are playing with fire, certainly, but they- want to vote. and they are playing with fire, certainly, but they are l with fire, certainly, but they are not with fire, certainly, but they are hot as— with fire, certainly, but they are not as interested _ with fire, certainly, but they are not as interested in _ with fire, certainly, but they are not as interested in party- with fire, certainly, but they are i not as interested in party politics, they are _ not as interested in party politics, they are interested _ not as interested in party politics, they are interested in _ not as interested in party politics, they are interested in movements not as interested in party politics, - they are interested in movements and growth _ they are interested in movements and growth and _ they are interested in movements and growth and there _ they are interested in movements and growth. and there is— they are interested in movements and growth. and there is a _ they are interested in movements and growth. and there is a long—term - growth. and there is a long—term tehdehcv— growth. and there is a long—term tendency which _ growth. and there is a long—term tendency which started _ growth. and there is a long—term tendency which started 30 - growth. and there is a long—term tendency which started 30 yearsi growth. and there is a long—term i tendency which started 30 years ago and tendency which started 30 years ago ahd emmanuel— tendency which started 30 years ago and emmanuel macron— tendency which started 30 years ago and emmanuel macron is— tendency which started 30 years ago and emmanuel macron is only- tendency which started 30 years ago and emmanuel macron is only in - tendency which started 30 years ago and emmanuel macron is only in the j and emmanuel macron is only in the

face of— and emmanuel macron is only in the face of that, — and emmanuel macron is only in the face of that, the _ and emmanuel macron is only in the face of that, the convergence - and emmanuel macron is only in the face of that, the convergence of- and emmanuel macron is only in the face of that, the convergence of the| face of that, the convergence of the bourgeoisie, — face of that, the convergence of the bourgeoisie, from _ face of that, the convergence of the bourgeoisie, from the _ face of that, the convergence of the bourgeoisie, from the right- face of that, the convergence of the bourgeoisie, from the right and - bourgeoisie, from the right and left, _ bourgeoisie, from the right and left, who— bourgeoisie, from the right and left, who are _ bourgeoisie, from the right and left, who are pro—european - bourgeoisie, from the right andj left, who are pro—european and optimistic, _ left, who are pro—european and optimistic, and _ left, who are pro—european and optimistic, and they— left, who are pro—european and optimistic, and they want - left, who are pro—european and optimistic, and they want to - left, who are pro—european and i optimistic, and they want to adapt the model. — optimistic, and they want to adapt the model, social, _ optimistic, and they want to adapt the model, social, to— optimistic, and they want to adapti the model, social, to globalisation. but they— the model, social, to globalisation. but they have — the model, social, to globalisation. but they have the _ the model, social, to globalisation. but they have the extreme - the model, social, to globalisation. but they have the extreme left - the model, social, to globalisation. but they have the extreme left and| but they have the extreme left and the extreme — but they have the extreme left and the extreme right. _ but they have the extreme left and the extreme right. and _ but they have the extreme left and the extreme right. and they- but they have the extreme left and the extreme right. and they have i the extreme right. and they have voters _ the extreme right. and they have voters circlihg _ the extreme right. and they have voters circling them. _ the extreme right. and they have voters circling them. so - the extreme right. and they have voters circling them. so we - the extreme right. and they have voters circling them. so we have i the extreme right. and they have . voters circling them. so we have an effect _ voters circling them. so we have an effect something _ voters circling them. so we have an effect something that _ voters circling them. so we have an effect something that is _ voters circling them. so we have an effect something that is not - voters circling them. so we have an effect something that is not so - effect something that is not so democratic, _ effect something that is not so democratic, a _ effect something that is not so democratic, a one—party- effect something that is not so - democratic, a one—party government, with emmanuel— democratic, a one—party government, with emmanuel macron _ democratic, a one—party government, with emmanuel macron on _ democratic, a one—party government, with emmanuel macron on top, - democratic, a one—party government, with emmanuel macron on top, so - democratic, a one—party government, with emmanuel macron on top, so it. with emmanuel macron on top, so it is completely— with emmanuel macron on top, so it is completely a _ with emmanuel macron on top, so it is completely a recomposition - with emmanuel macron on top, so it is completely a recomposition of - with emmanuel macron on top, so itj is completely a recomposition of the frehch_ is completely a recomposition of the french political— is completely a recomposition of the french political landscape, - is completely a recomposition of the french political landscape, but - is completely a recomposition of the french political landscape, but i - french political landscape, but i don't _ french political landscape, but i don't think— french political landscape, but i don't think the _ french political landscape, but i don't think the left _ french political landscape, but i don't think the left or _ french political landscape, but i don't think the left or right, - french political landscape, but i don't think the left or right, the| don't think the left or right, the way we — don't think the left or right, the way we have _ don't think the left or right, the way we have known _ don't think the left or right, the way we have known them, - don't think the left or right, the way we have known them, are i don't think the left or right, the - way we have known them, are going to be back _ way we have known them, are going to be back ten— way we have known them, are going to be back. ., way we have known them, are going to be back. . , .~' way we have known them, are going to be back. . , a , ., way we have known them, are going to be back. . , ,., ., be back. can i pick up one last thouuht be back. can i pick up one last thought on — be back. can i pick up one last thought on france, _ be back. can i pick up one last thought on france, this - be back. can i pick up one last - thought on france, this movement idea? putin has stylised the fight against ukraine, it's not about territory but values and beliefs and the decadence of the west,

presumably the drug takers that putin talked about are interchangeable with the gay rights demonstrators. it’s interchangeable with the gay rights demonstrators.— demonstrators. it's interesting... the are demonstrators. it's interesting... they are the _ demonstrators. it's interesting... they are the decadent _ demonstrators. it's interesting... they are the decadent ones, - demonstrators. it's interesting... they are the decadent ones, you | demonstrators. it's interesting... - they are the decadent ones, you make a choice. tote they are the decadent ones, you make a choice. ~ ., , they are the decadent ones, you make a choice. ~ . , , ., a choice. we are seeing similar lanaruae a choice. we are seeing similar language from _ a choice. we are seeing similar language from le _ a choice. we are seeing similar language from le pen, - a choice. we are seeing similar language from le pen, she - a choice. we are seeing similar language from le pen, she has a choice. we are seeing similar- language from le pen, she has talked about the importance of french tradition and civilisation, it feels like there is similar language there, this sense of people wanting to embrace some kind of past notion, some value that they feel is being lost. there seems to be a lot of mothering and scapegoating going on, which is problematic, it is such a negative politics we are seeing. find negative politics we are seeing. and there has been a bit of that in the attitudes to the movement, poorer, disaffected, particularly young muslim men and women who are french

by birth but had been treated as the other in politics. it’s by birth but had been treated as the other in politics.— other in politics. it's very interesting _ other in politics. it's very interesting how - other in politics. it's very interesting how the - other in politics. it's very - interesting how the different religiorrs— interesting how the different religions have _ interesting how the different religions have been - interesting how the different religions have been voting, i interesting how the different i religions have been voting, and interesting how the different - religions have been voting, and we had the _ religions have been voting, and we had the figures _ religions have been voting, and we had the figures. it's— religions have been voting, and we had the figures. it's interesting - had the figures. it's interesting that the — had the figures. it's interesting that the protestants, _ had the figures. it's interesting that the protestants, and - had the figures. it's interestingj that the protestants, and there had the figures. it's interesting - that the protestants, and there are not that— that the protestants, and there are not that many— that the protestants, and there are not that many in— that the protestants, and there are not that many in france, _ that the protestants, and there are not that many in france, i- that the protestants, and there are not that many in france, i think- that the protestants, and there are j not that many in france, i think 2.5 million. _ not that many in france, i think 2.5 million. thev— not that many in france, i think 2.5 million, they voted _ not that many in france, i think 2.5 million, they voted massively- not that many in france, i think 2.5 million, they voted massively for. million, they voted massively for macron, — million, they voted massively for macron, much— million, they voted massively for macron, much higher— million, they voted massively for macron, much higher than - million, they voted massively for macron, much higher than the i macron, much higher than the average — macron, much higher than the average the _ macron, much higher than the average. the catholics... - macron, much higher than the - average. the catholics... especially the practising — average. the catholics... especially the practising catholics, _ average. the catholics... especially the practising catholics, have - average. the catholics... especially the practising catholics, have votedj the practising catholics, have voted more _ the practising catholics, have voted more for— the practising catholics, have voted more for le — the practising catholics, have voted more for le pen _ the practising catholics, have voted more for le pen than _ the practising catholics, have voted more for le pen than the _ the practising catholics, have voted more for le pen than the national. more for le pen than the national average _ more for le pen than the national average and — more for le pen than the national average and less _ more for le pen than the national average and less for— more for le pen than the national average and less for the - more for le pen than the national average and less for the far- more for le pen than the national average and less for the far left. i average and less for the far left. and the — average and less for the far left. and the muslims, _ average and less for the far left. and the muslims, the _ average and less for the far left. and the muslims, the french- average and less for the far left. - and the muslims, the french muslims, have voted _ and the muslims, the french muslims, have voted on— and the muslims, the french muslims, have voted on the _ and the muslims, the french muslims, have voted on the first _ and the muslims, the french muslims, have voted on the first round _ and the muslims, the french muslims, have voted on the first round 69% - have voted on the first round 69% for the _ have voted on the first round 69% for the far— have voted on the first round 69% for the far left _ have voted on the first round 69% for the far left candidate, - have voted on the first round 69% for the far left candidate, so - have voted on the first round 69% for the far left candidate, so this. for the far left candidate, so this is how— for the far left candidate, so this is how religion— for the far left candidate, so this is how religion plays _ for the far left candidate, so this is how religion plays out - for the far left candidate, so this is how religion plays out in - for the far left candidate, so this. is how religion plays out in french society— is how religion plays out in french society but. — is how religion plays out in french society but. on— is how religion plays out in french society but, on the _ is how religion plays out in french society but, on the other-

is how religion plays out in french society but, on the other hand, i society but, on the other hand, unlike — society but, on the other hand, unlike russia, _ society but, on the other hand, unlike russia, france _ society but, on the other hand, unlike russia, france is- society but, on the other hand, unlike russia, france is one . society but, on the other hand, unlike russia, france is one of| society but, on the other hand, i unlike russia, france is one of the top atheist — unlike russia, france is one of the top atheist countries _ unlike russia, france is one of the top atheist countries in _ unlike russia, france is one of the top atheist countries in the - unlike russia, france is one of the top atheist countries in the world, | top atheist countries in the world, you know! — top atheist countries in the world, you know! and _ top atheist countries in the world, you know! and if— top atheist countries in the world, you know! and if you _ top atheist countries in the world, you know! and if you look- top atheist countries in the world, you know! and if you look at- top atheist countries in the world, i you know! and if you look at people who say— you know! and if you look at people who say they — you know! and if you look at people who say they are _ you know! and if you look at people who say they are not _ you know! and if you look at people who say they are not religious - you know! and if you look at people who say they are not religious or. who say they are not religious or simply— who say they are not religious or simply atheist, _ who say they are not religious or simply atheist, well, _ who say they are not religious or simply atheist, well, they- who say they are not religious or simply atheist, well, they are i who say they are not religious or simply atheist, well, they are a i who say they are not religious or. simply atheist, well, they are a bit on the _ simply atheist, well, they are a bit on the left — simply atheist, well, they are a bit on the left and _ simply atheist, well, they are a bit on the left and right, _ simply atheist, well, they are a bit on the left and right, and - simply atheist, well, they are a bit on the left and right, and a - simply atheist, well, they are a bit on the left and right, and a bit- on the left and right, and a bit macron — on the left and right, and a bit macron. ., on the left and right, and a bit macron. . , ., on the left and right, and a bit macron. . ,, ~ . . macron. let me ask you, michael, in the last three _ macron. let me ask you, michael, in the last three or _ macron. let me ask you, michael, in the last three or four _ macron. let me ask you, michael, in the last three or four minutes - macron. let me ask you, michael, in the last three or four minutes we - the last three or four minutes we have about borisjohnson. with the british have lost their faith in their prime minister as a result of him being fined for breaching his own law on covid? it’s him being fined for breaching his own law on covid? it's impossible to tell. and luckily _ own law on covid? it's impossible to tell. and luckily we _ own law on covid? it's impossible to tell. and luckily we have _ own law on covid? it's impossible to tell. and luckily we have the - own law on covid? it's impossible to tell. and luckily we have the may . tell. and luckily we have the may local— tell. and luckily we have the may local elections and we just have to be patient — local elections and we just have to be patient and wait. from what i can tell, what— be patient and wait. from what i can tell, what we talked about in france, _ tell, what we talked about in france, most people who will sit around _ france, most people who will sit around this table for any reason thing. _ around this table for any reason thing. you — around this table for any reason thing, you can't do that, you cannot break— thing, you can't do that, you cannot break the _ thing, you can't do that, you cannot break the rules, the laws, you just made, _ break the rules, the laws, you just made. and — break the rules, the laws, you just made, and so brazen fashion, even

for a _ made, and so brazen fashion, even for a 50 _ made, and so brazen fashion, even for a 50 quid — made, and so brazen fashion, even for a 50 quid fine, but i have a feeling — for a 50 quid fine, but i have a feeling there are a lot of people in the country who think, 50 quid? i -ot the country who think, 50 quid? i got caught— the country who think, 50 quid? i got caught speeding the other day and that— got caught speeding the other day and that was 95 quid and three points— and that was 95 quid and three points on— and that was 95 quid and three points on my licence! people will make _ points on my licence! people will make their own decision about how that is _ make their own decision about how that is and — make their own decision about how that is. and as for the rest of it, my guess — that is. and as for the rest of it, my guess is _ that is. and as for the rest of it, my guess is it's all priced in now, the way— my guess is it's all priced in now, the way the — my guess is it's all priced in now, the way the country feels about boris, — the way the country feels about boris, but — the way the country feels about boris, but i do think there is no election— boris, but i do think there is no election until 2024, so we will have to wait— election until 2024, so we will have to wait that — election until 2024, so we will have to wait that long to find out. catherine, the interesting thing about that fixed penalty fine, when you look at the debates, part of the reason for that was them worried they would be so overwhelmed, the police and the courts especially in the middle of a pandemic with prosecuting people who broke the rules, this was the most efficient way of doing it, so it wasn't necessarily a judgment on how serious it was but more an administrative decision. i’m serious it was but more an administrative decision. i'm not sure that many _ administrative decision. i'm not sure that many people - administrative decision. i'm not sure that many people did - administrative decision. i'm not| sure that many people did break administrative decision. i'm not - sure that many people did break the rules in the end. people were

stunned at quite how many parties there were in number 10. a remarkable number. you could say that boris has been lucky in that something else came along, i ukraine, to take the attention of him, but i wonder if his luck will run out because we now have a cost of living crisis in this country and we may well start to see the impact of that when we have the elections in may, that is when people might vote according to their displeasure about that, and as is so often the case in politics, the economy plays so strongly. find case in politics, the economy plays so strongly-— so strongly. and we used to be rather snooty _ so strongly. and we used to be rather snooty in _ so strongly. and we used to be rather snooty in this _ so strongly. and we used to be rather snooty in this country i so strongly. and we used to be i rather snooty in this country about french politics on this question about rule breaking and apparently indifference to some of the stricter rules on how you raise funds for election campaigns, who you give jobs to and all the rest of it, is the boot now on the other foot? i

the boot now on the other foot? i think you have to distinguish the british— think you have to distinguish the british and — think you have to distinguish the british and their— think you have to distinguish the british and their government, i think you have to distinguish the i british and their government, and there _ british and their government, and there are — british and their government, and there are a — british and their government, and there are a lot— british and their government, and there are a lot of— british and their government, and there are a lot of people - british and their government, and there are a lot of people in - british and their government, and there are a lot of people in the i there are a lot of people in the world — there are a lot of people in the world who _ there are a lot of people in the world who still— there are a lot of people in the world who still highly- there are a lot of people in the world who still highly regarded there are a lot of people in the - world who still highly regarded the british, _ world who still highly regarded the british, their— world who still highly regarded the british, their government- world who still highly regarded the british, their government is- world who still highly regarded the i british, their government is another story, _ british, their government is another story, i— british, their government is another story, i have — british, their government is another story, i have stopped _ british, their government is another story, i have stopped making - story, i have stopped making predictions. _ story, i have stopped making predictions, it— story, i have stopped making predictions, it should - story, i have stopped making predictions, it should have i story, i have stopped making i predictions, it should have been gone, _ predictions, it should have been gone, so — predictions, it should have been gone, so ntany_ predictions, it should have been gone, so many scandals. - predictions, it should have been gone, so many scandals. you i predictions, it should have been. gone, so many scandals. you only have _ gone, so many scandals. you only have to _ gone, so many scandals. you only have to read — gone, so many scandals. you only have to read the _ gone, so many scandals. you only have to read the ministerial- gone, so many scandals. you only have to read the ministerial codei gone, so many scandals. you only. have to read the ministerial code to know _ have to read the ministerial code to know that _ have to read the ministerial code to know that is — have to read the ministerial code to know that is not _ have to read the ministerial code to know that is not propriety— have to read the ministerial code to know that is not propriety and - know that is not propriety and integrity. _ know that is not propriety and integrity. and _ know that is not propriety and integrity, and everything - know that is not propriety and integrity, and everything a - know that is not propriety and - integrity, and everything a british prime _ integrity, and everything a british prime minister— integrity, and everything a british prime minister is _ integrity, and everything a british prime minister is expected - integrity, and everything a british prime minister is expected to - integrity, and everything a british prime minister is expected to be i prime minister is expected to be doing. _ prime minister is expected to be doing. so— prime minister is expected to be doing. so i— prime minister is expected to be doing. so i have _ prime minister is expected to be doing, so i have not _ prime minister is expected to be doing, so i have not lost - prime minister is expected to be doing, so i have not lost faith. prime minister is expected to be doing, so i have not lost faith in| doing, so i have not lost faith in the british, _ doing, so i have not lost faith in the british, i've _ doing, so i have not lost faith in the british, i've lost _ doing, so i have not lost faith in the british, i've lost complete l the british, i've lost complete faith— the british, i've lost complete faith in— the british, i've lost complete faith in the _ the british, i've lost complete faith in the british _ the british, i've lost complete faith in the british prime - the british, i've lost complete - faith in the british prime minister. but as— faith in the british prime minister. but as long — faith in the british prime minister. but as long as _ faith in the british prime minister. but as long as the _ faith in the british prime minister. but as long as the tories - faith in the british prime minister. but as long as the tories are - faith in the british prime minister. | but as long as the tories are here. as you _ but as long as the tories are here. as you were — but as long as the tories are here. as you were saying. _ but as long as the tories are here. as you were saying, michael, - but as long as the tories are here. i as you were saying, michael, another two years _ as you were saying, michael, another two ears. , . ~ as you were saying, michael, another two ears. , . ,, ,, two years. they will back him unless the think two years. they will back him unless they think they _ two years. they will back him unless they think they have _ two years. they will back him unless they think they have a _ two years. they will back him unless they think they have a better - they think they have a better candidate. they think they have a better candidate-—

they think they have a better candidate. �* , ., �* . candidate. and they don't at the moment. surely _ candidate. and they don't at the moment. surely you _ candidate. and they don't at the moment. surely you must - candidate. and they don't at the moment. surely you must have | candidate. and they don't at the | moment. surely you must have a better candidate? _ moment. surely you must have a better candidate? if _ moment. surely you must have a better candidate? if the - moment. surely you must have a better candidate? if the war - moment. surely you must have a better candidate? if the war gets| better candidate? if the war gets hea and better candidate? if the war gets heavy and people _ better candidate? if the war gets heavy and people get _ better candidate? if the war gets heavy and people get drawn - better candidate? if the war gets heavy and people get drawn in i better candidate? if the war gets i heavy and people get drawn in they might— heavy and people get drawn in they might have to find a much more serious — might have to find a much more serious person. i don't want tojinx him~ _ serious person. i don't want to 'inx him. . ., serious person. i don't want to 'inx him. . . ., ., him. the chair of the foreign affairs committee, _ him. the chair of the foreign affairs committee, former i him. the chair of the foreign - affairs committee, former soldier? we are not there. i affairs committee, former soldier? we are not there.— we are not there. i have a feeling we will talk _ we are not there. i have a feeling we will talk about _ we are not there. i have a feeling we will talk about this _ we are not there. i have a feeling we will talk about this for - we are not there. i have a feeling we will talk about this for weeks i we are not there. i have a feeling l we will talk about this for weeks to come, not least in a fortnight after those local election results. that's it for dateline: london for this week. i hope you enjoy your easter, however you are celebrating. if you are celebrating watching this programme then a happy easter to you. goodbye.

hello. well, many of us have had some pretty good weather in the last couple of days and, today, friday, warmest day of the year so far, with highs up to 22 degrees in london, 20 degrees reached in many other areas, and saturday should be about as warm again with sunny spells on the way, but not necessarily for everybody right from the word go. in fact, if you look at the satellite picture, there's this swirl of cloud. it's a low pressure centre just to the west of northern ireland. that's dragging in a lot of low—grade cloud from the southern climes. in fact, you can see that wind here, just a gentle breeze. it's pushing the grey skies into cornwall, devon overnight, wales, again around the irish sea, and pretty cloudy in western and northern scotland. so here a cloudy night and indeed a cloudy morning. elsewhere, it should be sunny

right from the word go. so let's have a look at the forecast then for saturday. it starts off slow out towards the west. sunshine for many parts of central britain and indeed the afternoon is looking beautiful. highs should reach around 20 degrees in london, in birmingham, not far off that in liverpool, newcastle, the high teens, but a lot fresher in the north of scotland, actually, only eight degrees for our friends in lerwick. now, let's have a look at the weather map for sunday, and there is a weather front on the way. in fact, it does spell thick cloud and rain for northern ireland, western scotland eventually, and possibly areas further south and east as well. so here it is in the morning. it approaches northern ireland. you can see it's raining. western isles pretty wet too, and just about that cloud, just about nudging into wales and the south—west of england as well but, further towards the east, it's again another sunny day. a sunny sunday with highs up to 19 in london and 17 in newcastle.

now, beyond that, the weather is going to turn a little more unsettled. we're expecting the low pressure to near us. it's actually going to be flirting with the south—west of the uk. but, elsewhere, actually, easter monday is looking pretty decent, bar the odd shower here and there. temperatures a little lower. it's because the winds are coming off the atlantic and, in fact, much lower across more northern areas — only around 12 degrees, for example, in glasgow. have a great weekend.

this is bbc news. i'm maryam moshiri. the headlines. hours after russia's flagship vessel sinks in the black sea, moscow threatens to increase its attacks near the outskirts of ukraine's capital. we've surrendered. a british man fighting for ukraine is captured by russian forces. his family plead for his safety. i know he's a life but i'm not sure if that's a comfort because i don't know really how he is being treated. almost 400 people have died in severe floods in kwazulu—natal, south africa, after the deadliest storm in decades. more than 150 palestinians are injured in clashes with israeli police atjerusalem's holy site.

and in cricket, joe root steps down as england men's test captain