tv BBC News BBC News May 7, 2022 8:00pm-8:31pm BST
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this is bbc news — i'm annita mcveigh. it's eight o'clock — the headlines this hour: sinn fein wins the most seats in the northern ireland assembly in an historic election — it's the first time a party in favour of uniting ireland has come top. today ushers in a new era, which i believe presents us all with an opportunity to reimagine relationships in this society on the basis of fairness, on the basis of equality, and on the basis of socialjustice. democratic unionist party leader sirjeffrey donaldson says his party will wait till next week before deciding whether to enter a power—sharing government. the sovereign government
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here who can make the decisions that will unlock the door to stormont is the uk government. that is absolutely clear. meanwhile, the centre ground alliance party surged — and has more than doubled its seats since the last election. good evening from belfast. it's been confirmed sinn fein will be the party with most seats it will be the party with most seats was a hive of acti' relatively it was a hive of activity until relatively recently, but the count is finished here. there are just a couple of seats left to declare, 88 of the 90 seats have been declared.
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as a result of that, we know that sinn fein is the party with the most seats in the northern ireland assembly. let's take a look at it. with 27 seats, no other party can now overtake sinn fein, which will be the largest party in assembly and it's the first majority nationalist party. it's the first time a party in favour of uniting ireland has come top in stormont election. let's get into some analysis of this. i'm joined byjon tonge, professor of british and irish politics at the university of liverpool. 0bviously, end fascinating for someone like you who have studied northern ireland politics for a very long time. what is your assessment of it all? it long time. what is your assessment of it all? , ., ., ., ., , of it all? it is an extraordinary da . a of it all? it is an extraordinary day- a party _ of it all? it is an extraordinary day- a party that _ of it all? it is an extraordinary day. a party that was - of it all? it is an extraordinary day. a party that was once - of it all? it is an extraordinary day. a party that was once at | of it all? it is an extraordinary i day. a party that was once at the political wing of the ira, that still doesn't use the term northern ireland and is discourse, has become
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the largest party within it. it has been a very successful day for sinn fein. it has been a day that has been coming for some time. that is not to say they will be a united ireland immediately, but in the symbolic terms this is a very important step. sinn fein has got the power is notjust in northern ireland, but also south of the border where it could become the largest party in the republic in a couple of years. whatever the formal rule say, that increases at least the pressure for a referendum on irish unity. the pressure for a referendum on irish unity-— irish unity. sinn fein may gain another seat _ irish unity. sinn fein may gain another seat yet, _ irish unity. sinn fein may gain another seat yet, one - irish unity. sinn fein may gain another seat yet, one of - irish unity. sinn fein may gain| another seat yet, one of those irish unity. sinn fein may gain - another seat yet, one of those last two to be decided. at the moment, it has 27 seats. at the last election, it has 27 seats. but because of the weekly voting has worked this time, it has emerged as the largest party. sinn fein do not focus at haul excessively on a united ireland.
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they talked about gas and electricity bills, the crisis in health service. it was also because of slippage in the dup's about, which has went down partly because some people went to the right of the dup and went to the heart unionist party even more opposed to the northern ireland protocol line at the dup. the big question now is whether michelle o neill will be joined at the political altar by jeffrey donaldson as the dup leader. i'm sure sinn fein would be the first to admit that the whole question of a border poll on the question of a border poll on the question of a border poll on the question of irish unity is some way down the line. the most immediate and pressing question is whether the dup will nominate to the deputy first minister position, which it is and how to do at the second largest party, allowing sinn fein to become first minister. that is all a
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precursor to a potential return to power sharing. precursor to a potential return to powersharing. but precursor to a potential return to power sharing. but that is going to be tricky, isn't it? the power sharing. but that is going to be tricky, isn't it?— be tricky, isn't it? the dup has at the veto, it _ be tricky, isn't it? the dup has at the veto, it has _ be tricky, isn't it? the dup has at the veto, it has to _ be tricky, isn't it? the dup has at the veto, it has to be _ be tricky, isn't it? the dup has at the veto, it has to be the - be tricky, isn't it? the dup has at the veto, it has to be the dup - be tricky, isn't it? the dup has at| the veto, it has to be the dup that nominates the deputy first minister under the rules. the ball it really is not injeffrey donaldson�*s court is not injeffrey donaldson�*s court is dup leader. there are different options for top what is to not intervene at all, he has 2a weeks to try and negotiate. 0r intervene at all, he has 2a weeks to try and negotiate. or he could just go in. in which case, it is sort of problem solve. 0rjeffrey donaldson could take the dup in conditionally, saying they will share power initially with sinn fein, but if there is no movement on the northern ireland protocol, they will again pull the first minister out of the institutions in the way the dup did only last february. there are different scenarios at play here, we
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can't be certain. the fact that the british government extended the period to 2a weeks by which a deputy first minister could be nominated, suggest the british government is not expecting a quick fix here. how lona can not expecting a quick fix here. how long can you _ not expecting a quick fix here. how long can you go _ not expecting a quick fix here. how long can you go on _ not expecting a quick fix here. how long can you go on talking about trying to make it work before you actually have to make it work? quite actually have to make it work? quite a lot of that trying to make it work has gone on in northern ireland, but at which point does northern ireland, the uk government, everyone concerned, reach a limit?— concerned, reach a limit? patience tends to be — concerned, reach a limit? patience tends to be fairly _ concerned, reach a limit? patience tends to be fairly infinite _ concerned, reach a limit? patience tends to be fairly infinite here - concerned, reach a limit? patience tends to be fairly infinite here in i tends to be fairly infinite here in northern ireland. the british government will probably play it long here. the british government is desperate to avoid westminster direct rule over northern ireland. very few of the electorate want that. there was a majority in favour of power—sharing here and all public opinion surveys suggest the public is not lost faith yet in devolved
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power sharing. they will be a lot of pressure on the dup to re—enter the pouch and institutions rather than potential collapse of the good friday agreement, because that is what we are looking at every wall power—sharing cannot be restored. if so, the good friday agreement itself is in trouble here. lewis goodall has been looking at the latest numbers. never before in the 101 year history of northern ireland has a nationalist party won the most seats in an election. notjust the history of stormont, which has been around since power—sharing came about, i'm talking about the entire history of northern ireland as a political entity. you can see how sinn fein have done it here. 29% of the vote, about 1%. the dup darmon 7%. this is why this has happened. in terms of
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seats, it's not that impressive. they recently have come out on top is because the dup have fallen back ljy is because the dup have fallen back by three, that is because they have fallen in the popular vote by 7%. part of it has gone to the more hardline unionist force led byjim allister. some have gone to the alliance party, that itself is extremely interesting. we have always had a situation where the main blocks of northern ireland politics have been nationalist and unionist. this isjust as historic as anything happening with sinn fein and potentialjust as important for northern ireland's future. you have a situation where you potentially have a third block in the mix, nonaligned and nonsectarian. that will change the entire complexion of
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northern ireland politics into the future. it will be a situation where the alliance party, who came fifth in the previous election, they will have to be at the table in a week they haven't been before. —— in a way they haven't been before. let's look at lagan valley. this is the seat of sirjeffrey donaldson, in a parliament, and indeed stormont if it ever gets going. it is a dup stronghold just south of belfast. they are down 7%. some of it is going to the tuv, some to the alliance party. it did not change the dup puzzling overall number of seats. you can see your strangford, another very strong dup area traditionally. in this case, they
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are down 4%, alliance party have 9%, the tuv up 9%. that is the root of why dup is no longer going to be in a position to nominate first minister. there matter in terms of the power of the executive? no. first minister and deputy first minister are coequal. it matters in whether the dup is willing to come to the table. it matters in a situation if we have a sinn fein first minister, there could be a sinn fein taoiseach in the republic. so much questions about what that potential is for the future between great britain, the uk and the republic of ireland and the island of ireland. for now, we should concentrate on those two things. one, sinn fein, historic result 0ne, sinn fein, historic result coming first. and the role of the alliance party. many unanswered
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questions to come. this has been a very important day in the 101 year history of northern ireland. joining me now is mark devenport, former bbc northern ireland political editor. you have reported on some of the huge events in northern ireland, including the ira ceasefire and at the good friday agreement, so good to have you with us to put this into context for us to stop let's look back at the ira ceasefire. sinn fein used to be described as the political wing of the ira in some quarters. there's been a huge journey for them since those days of the troubles. journey for them since those days of the troubles-— the troubles. when i think back to the 1980s when _ the troubles. when i think back to the 1980s when | _ the troubles. when i think back to the 1980s when | first _ the troubles. when i think back to the 1980s when i first came - the troubles. when i think back to the 1980s when i first came out. the troubles. when i think back to l the 1980s when i first came out here as a young journalist, at that time we always refer to sinn fein as the political wing of the ira. they made no bones about it. those murals of
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bobby sands, the hunger striker. if you asked them about a bombing or a shooting, they would say we don't engage in the politics of condemnation but we understand what this is all about. even at the sinn fein people used to have a column called war news, which we detail all the ambushes which they claimed the ira conducted a very proudly against what they called at the crown forces to stop it was a very different era. down through the decades, there has been transition, the peace process, gerry adams persuading the hardliners in republicanism that more could be achieved by taking a political path. eventually, sinn fein taking over the role of the dominant nationalist party, the sdlp, which used to be much bigger than them, and are now taking over the role of the dominant party at stormont overall. talk the role of the dominant party at stormont overall.— the role of the dominant party at stormont overall. talk to us about the good friday _ stormont overall. talk to us about the good friday agreement. - stormont overall. talk to us about the good friday agreement. a - stormont overall. talk to us about | the good friday agreement. a huge period of discussions leading up to that. it underpinned the
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power—sharing arrangements here, doesn't it? power-sharing arrangements here, doesn't it? . , ., ., doesn't it? that is at the root of man of doesn't it? that is at the root of many of the _ doesn't it? that is at the root of many of the logjam _ doesn't it? that is at the root of many of the logjam is _ doesn't it? that is at the root of many of the logjam is that - doesn't it? that is at the root of many of the logjam is that we . doesn't it? that is at the root of i many of the logjam is that we have now. the good friday agreement resolved to a large extent the troubles, certainly at the caja figures went down. howl troubles, certainly at the caja figures went down. how i did out but was by guaranteeing certain safeguards were vetoed. they set up at the stormont assembly isn't a traditional coalition where whoever is holding the balance of power in the middle can deliver decisions one way or the other. instead, it has to be rubber—stamped by both a majority of unionists and nationalists. that is why things have often left to gridlock. if you can get both sides disagreeing, it is quite difficult to break those arguments was that thatis to break those arguments was that that is why you get governments coming from london, sometimes washington, dc, to try to resolve matters. while cell lines party has emerged as a bigger force than ever in love ireland politics, it cannot
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necessarily be the kingmaker deciding how things go because of the rules set up under the good friday agreement.— the rules set up under the good friday agreement. mark, thank you for -auttin friday agreement. mark, thank you for putting that _ friday agreement. mark, thank you for putting that into _ friday agreement. mark, thank you for putting that into context - friday agreement. mark, thank you for putting that into context for - for putting that into context for us. mark which mentioning the aligns party. let's speak to sorcha eastwood now, she's an alliance party member representing lagan valley. thank you very much forjoining us. we have been talking about the rise of the alliance vote, more than doubling the number of seats the party holds. what you think is behind that? we party holds. what you think is behind that?— party holds. what you think is behind that? we are absolutely deliahted behind that? we are absolutely delighted at — behind that? we are absolutely delighted at the _ behind that? we are absolutely delighted at the result. - behind that? we are absolutely delighted at the result. what i behind that? we are absolutely| delighted at the result. what we have seen as a consolidation of that kind of centre ground within northern irish politics. this is really an established pattern of writing now that has been there for
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more than one election cycle, it has been here for a number of electoral cycles. what we have seen today is not only places like north antrim, traditional paisley heartland, where at my colleague managed to take a seat from the dup. 0ther at my colleague managed to take a seat from the dup. other colleagues right across the piste. another colleague of mine managed to secure a seat in north belfast. we are absolutely delighted. people came out and endorsed a positive message. you will know yourself from having covered this that so often elections in northern ireland were really about trying to drum up support for keeping another person out. that is really not what alliance are about. we are about our own message, positivity, inclusivity, diversity. we have really seen at the hard work
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pay off today. this we have really seen at the hard work pay off today-— pay off today. this is one of the bi aer pay off today. this is one of the bigger stories _ pay off today. this is one of the bigger stories within _ pay off today. this is one of the bigger stories within the - pay off today. this is one of the | bigger stories within the election here, the rise of the centre ground. but that is still a logjam, is there? do you see a role for alliance in trying to help change that position. what can you do to allay unionist concerns over the northern ireland protocol, for example? and to get power—sharing back up and running and functioning again? back up and running and functioning auain? �* . . back up and running and functioning auain? . . . ., back up and running and functioning auain?�* . . ., , back up and running and functioning atain?�* ., . ., , ., again? alliance have absolutely no red wines whatsoever. _ again? alliance have absolutely no red wines whatsoever. we - again? alliance have absolutely no red wines whatsoever. we want i again? alliance have absolutely no red wines whatsoever. we want to | again? alliance have absolutely no i red wines whatsoever. we want to get back into government. we have just come off the back of a campaign where we were very clear that we need to have government going again this week. people really endorse that. this is not about us necessarily, it is about the people that came out and voted for us. you are right in saying that there is a logjam. it is for the others to step
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up logjam. it is for the others to step up to the plate now. in terms of the protocol, to be completely honest with you, that did not come up. that was not a feature at this election. i know some other parties have wanted it to be, but that was not really borne out by the results. what dominated this election was at the cost of living crisis, the collapse of the health service in northern ireland, special educational needs. all bread and butter issues, which i see is a good shine for modern irish elections, in that we are now fighting those bread and butter issues that impact everybody, no matter how the view themselves or see themselves. i think what we see today is a very clear definitive result. we have increased but we have grown. that needs to be reflected in how we do government in northern ireland. would you say that the alliance more
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naturally aligns with sinn fein on social issues? abortion, for example, lgbtq rights and so forth. at the end of the day, for example, we try to put forward a bill before the end of the last mandate in terms of hunting with dogs. actually, sinn fein supported that. there are plenty of things where there is no agreement. same with many other parties. i think that hallmark of us as being very much a different and standing out and unique is what has drawn many voters to us. whenever you look at some of the figures, particularly in my own constituency of lagan valley, you can see we have actually got our vote from right across and we have got a lot of new voters voting for us. that is what it is about, getting people excited about coming out to cast their vote.
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as you reference earlier yourself, it is absolutely crucial that we have a government to go back to. the public in northern ireland have made it very, very clear that they won't have any time at all for any party that wants to stymie that, to stop comment from being formed. —— to stop that government from being formed. . ~ stop that government from being formed. ., ,, , ., ., stop that government from being formed. . ~' ., stop that government from being formed. ., ,, ., , formed. thank you for your time this evenina. before its rise, sinn fein was once a party ostracised by many in the political sphere. during the 30—year conflict in northern ireland known as the troubles, it was seen as being associated with a campaign of violence. but once the party decided on a way forward through politics, and had members elected as mps in the 1980s, it began to gain popularity. 0ur ireland correspondent, emma vardy, looks back. her report contains flashing images. steeped in the violence of the past, sinn fein's
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political aims were born out of northern ireland's darkest days. the freedom fighters of the ira are now continuing the struggle against foreign occupation and domination! during the 30—year conflict here, sinn fein were the voice of the paramilitary group, the ira... explosions. ..who fought an armed campaign to try to break british rule in northern ireland. gerry adams, the leader of sinn fein during some of the worst of the ira violence, became both a hated and revered figure. i haven't gone away, you know! today, the ira dead are remembered at the republican plot in milltown cemetery. many who served time in prison on their release became involved in the political movement to achieve a united ireland through peaceful means. those were very, very formative days and, clearly, the idea that we have to move forward politically is very
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much entrenched now in republican ideology. sinn fein sees the conflict as having been a legitimate armed struggle, but the party now strongly advocates peace. what's been key to their success, do you think? there's that organic link. sinn fein republican activists were part of the community. in the 1990s, sinn fein played a key role in bringing about the good friday agreement, which largely ended the violence. in the years after, their support at the ballot box grew. martin mcguinness, a former commander in the ira,, became deputy first minister, sharing power with the dup. for those who remember the past, sinn fein still deeply divide opinion but in the party today, there are far fewer elected representatives who were involved in the armed conflict and their electoral success is a new milestone in what has been a remarkable political journey. if we look back to the good friday agreement, they would have been ex—prisoners, they would have been people who would have had links to that sort of republican wing of sinn fein/the ira.
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what we see now is a very young party, a very progressive party. it's full of young women — the two leaders are women, both of whom have no connection to that sort of previous past. but sinn fein's success is a bitter blow for unionism. the immediate challenge for the party's current leaders will be to form a new power—sharing executive at stormont, and governing in the first minister role may yet be some way off. earlier, i spoke with sinn fein'sjohn finucane and asked him for his reaction to the party's success. it's been a very successful election for us. i think our message to the people has received a huge endorsement. for that, we are very grateful. for that, we recognise that with that huge vote there's a responsibility, and the responsibility, just as i told you on tuesday, that irrespective of the result of the election, we will be ready to go back to work.
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and it's the same message. we are ready to go back to work, because people need that. listening to your party leader here in northern ireland, michelle 0'neill, speaking at magherafelt a little earlier and she said, "we will show respect and we want to be shown respect." was that a message for the dup with regards to the nomination process for first and deputy first minister? sinn fein, of course, would be entitled to to nominate to the first minister position, the dup to the deputy first minister position. yes, and i think people need to respect democracy. they need to respect the democratic outcomes. i think even with you on tuesday in previous interviews, some parties have danced on the head of a pin. we've now had the election. it's clear that we have received the biggest vote. we're entitled to that position of first minister. we will be nominating michelle 0'neill as first minister. she has already written to the party leaders to convene a meeting to get back to work, because the big issues around cost of living, around our health crisis here, needs to be dealt with, and we can only deal with that with ministers in place, so i think it's incumbent upon all of us to get back to work as soon as possible. jeffrey donaldson,
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leader of the dup, has said he's going to wait until after the queen's speech before making a decision on whether there'll be any return by the dup to a power—sharing executive. to your mind, was that a sense of perhaps a slight shift in the dup's position? well, we'll see. we'll see how that evolves over the next couple of days. but i think that what is clear is that there's nobody that i met over the past six, seven weeks of the campaign who was going to be casting their vote for their elected representatives not to go back to work. i think that if there is no executive, all we are doing is inflicting more hurt upon people who are really struggling to heat their homes, to put food on the table, fuel in their cars. we're inflicting more hurt on our health staff and our health service. so i think the message loud and clear needs to be that we get back around an executive table and actually start to deliver for people. joining me now is a community activist and loyalist, emma shaw.
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i suppose my first question for you, with sinn fein, the nationalist party that is in favour of the united ireland, not the largest party in northern ireland. how does that make you as a member of the loyalist community feel? it is democracy. _ loyalist community feel? it is democracy, that _ loyalist community feel? it is democracy, that is _ loyalist community feel? it is democracy, that is how i loyalist community feel? ut 3 democracy, that is how democracy works. my big problem is if people actually go out to vote. we have seen electoral results and with less than 63% of people actually showing up than 63% of people actually showing up to vote. we need to better understand why it is that individuals are choosing not to use that doubt. fill individuals are choosing not to use that doubt. .., , ., that doubt. of course, in an electoral— that doubt. of course, in an electoral system _ that doubt. of course, in an electoral system like i that doubt. of course, in an electoral system like here l that doubt. of course, in an| electoral system like here in northern ireland, a form of proportional representation, a lot of work goes in about the political parties into vote management. but still a big percentage of people not getting out and exercising their democratic right. you said the
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result is democracy, so would you like to see the democratic ulster unionist party nominate to the position of deputy first minister? —— the position of deputy first minister? -- the dup. i position of deputy first minister? -- the dup-— -- the dup. i don't have an issue with the deputy _ -- the dup. i don't have an issue with the deputy first _ -- the dup. i don't have an issue with the deputy first minister i -- the dup. i don't have an issue i with the deputy first minister being sinn fein, simply because it has been a joint first minister and deputy first minister role for the last ten years, and they haven't promise on what they said they would deliver on. to me, sinn fein is exactly the same as the dup. i wouldn't like northern ireland politics to progress past these orange and green issues to actually focus on the issues across the whole of northern ireland. —— i would like northern ireland politics to progress. we see a lack of opportunities, a lack of social
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development. we have seen a rise in food banks. iwant development. we have seen a rise in food banks. i want to see these issues are addressed and a move away from a tribal politics. shall issues are addressed and a move away from a tribal politics.— from a tribal politics. all those issues you _ from a tribal politics. all those issues you mentioned, - from a tribal politics. all those issues you mentioned, are i from a tribal politics. all those | issues you mentioned, are they from a tribal politics. all those i issues you mentioned, are they more important to you that the issue of the northern ireland protocol? that set of rules which governs trade here in northern ireland which the dup says undermines northern ireland plasma constitutional position within the united kingdom. are all thoseissues within the united kingdom. are all those issues more important than you about the protocol? i’m those issues more important than you about the protocol?— about the protocol? i'm not really here to speak— about the protocol? i'm not really here to speak about _ about the protocol? i'm not really here to speak about the _ about the protocol? i'm not really here to speak about the protocol. | here to speak about the protocol. there is a lot of frustration in my committee around that constitutional question and there are issues that need to be discussed, but it is up to politicians to come to the table and discuss them. there needs to be constructive dialogue from all of the parties to make that work. goad the parties to make that work. good to net our the parties to make that work. good to get your thoughts, _ the parties to make that work. good to get your thoughts, thank you very much, emma shaw.
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i'm joined byjon tonge, professor of british and irish politics at the university of liverpool. really interesting to hear from that guest, he was giving a list of things that politicians need to get on with, social housing, heating, eating, all those issues that doubters right across the uk have in coming. ijust wondered, is that going to get drowned out a bit in all the discussion around the protocol? l all the discussion around the protocol?— all the discussion around the rotocol? ~ , protocol? i think there will be immense _ protocol? i think there will be immense pressure _ protocol? i think there will be immense pressure on - protocol? i think there will be immense pressure on the i protocol? i think there will be | immense pressure on the dup protocol? i think there will be i immense pressure on the dup now protocol? i think there will be - immense pressure on the dup now to enter a power—sharing government because of all of those issues. whilst not all of those can be dealt by stormont, the british government cannot handle them either in many ways. a lot of pressure onjeff donaldson to go in. but he thinks he has got leverage by staying out of the power—sharing institutions, at least in the short term. what the power-sharing institutions, at least in the short term.— least in the short term. what you think the challenges _ least in the short term. what you think the challenges are - least in the short term. what you think the challenges are for i least in the short term. what you think the challenges are for the l think the challenges are for the government in westminster and the eu in regards to the result here? i
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think the pressure is on them to come to some sort of compromise over the protocol. 0utright abolition of it appears rather unlikely. but what will be at the bottom line that will get the dup back into the institution so that devolved power sharing can restart? that is what the electorate voted for. more people voted today for power—sharing parties than haven't. but there is substantial opposition to the eu protocol on the unionist side. sinn fein becoming the largest party on a day that few people thought would ever come in at northern ireland. we have had at the dramatic growth of alliance in at the centre. but it has hardly been a let down for the dup, they still have a substantial mandate themselves. all eyes are on jeffrey donaldson now. at this stage, we don't know if he will take his seat in a stormont, because that will potentially trigger a whiskey election in his constituency of lagan valley.
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election in his constituency of lagan valley-— election in his constituency of lagan valley. election in his constituency of lauan valle . a, ., ., ., lagan valley. more than enough to talk about, — lagan valley. more than enough to talk about, absolutely. _ lagan valley. more than enough to talk about, absolutely. that's i talk about, absolutely. that's something to look out for as well. they come back to sinn fein. all sorts of adjectives had been applied to this news today, their emergence as the biggest party in northern ireland. ~ . v as the biggest party in northern ireland. ~ . �*, ., ., ,,, as the biggest party in northern ireland. ~ . �*, ., ., i, , ., ireland. what's your analysis of that? it is _ ireland. what's your analysis of that? it is huge. _ ireland. what's your analysis of that? it is huge. sinn _ ireland. what's your analysis of that? it is huge. sinn fein i ireland. what's your analysis of that? it is huge. sinn fein in i ireland. what's your analysis of| that? it is huge. sinn fein in the 19805 that? it is huge. sinn fein in the 1980s where a political outlet for the eye at a's campaign to stop that you had the ira ceasefire is in the 19905 you had the ira ceasefire is in the 1990s and it sinn fein? political growth took off dramatically from that point. very few people envisage that point. very few people envisage that sinn fein would be the largest party here one day. there is no sign of a ceiling on a sinn fein's growth. he wondered if nationalist will be in the ascendancy, albeit in a system in which no whence i can totally dominate the other side. abs,
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